YOU Can be a Real Estate Investor Too | with James Nelson

And I wanted to be practical. It's not theory, right? It's, this is how you go and find property. Okay? This is the team you need to build. This is how you do it. This is how you partner, right? And so, after you read this, if you do the work and you really study, right, you're gonna have that insider's edge. What, what I talk about in the book is there's an incredible opportunity here because if you can find the right property and the right story, right? So, you've done the work, so you've researched the area, you've gone through, you've looked at a lot of different listings and you find a great off-market deal that others don't know about, that is currency, right? But he could have made $500,000 in 2 weeks just for assigning the contract.

James Nelson, welcome to the Book Thinkers Life-Changing Books Podcast. We are so excited to get to know you and talk about your book, The Insider's Edge to Real Estate Investing. Now, before we get into the book, I want to talk about how you studied English in college and you've talked about loving improv and the idea of being a screenwriter. So, why did you choose to go down the path of real estate instead of pursuing the path of writing?

Wow.

Well, first of all, thanks so much, Luke and Nick. Awesome to be here with you both. I really love what you all are doing and all the incredible content you put out. And now, of course, asking that improv question, you're going to put me on the spot. It better be something good. But yes, when I graduated from Colgate in 1998, I didn't even know real estate was a thing. In fact, I thought maybe I'd go out to the West Coast and maybe try to make movies or something until I realized that no one was paying me to do that. And so I figured, okay, I got to get a real job. And all my buddies at that point had investment banking jobs. So I went up to the Career Service Center, uh, to see what was still available. And one of the alums had posted a job opening to become a sales associate. at a commercial real estate firm. And again, I knew nothing about the business, but I said, look, this sounds interesting. It's in Manhattan. So, I went for an interview and miraculously, uh, actually got the job. And it was only until a couple months later that they used to joke with me that only 2 people applied for the job, and I was actually their second choice. So, they had hired the other Colgate alum, and he ended up working with Paul Massey, one of the founders. And then I started my career with Bob Knackel about 25 years ago. So, certainly luck getting into this business. But it's been a whole lot of fun and maybe even a little bit of improv along the way to get a lot of deals done.

Do you wish you went down the other path? Are you happy with the path that you chose?

You know, I love what I'm doing because every day is different. Every day I'm learning something new. If I was just doing the same thing over and over, but there's so many facets to this business and I deal with so many interesting people. There's this incredible team aspect as well. I'm really blessed to have 3 dozen people here that I work with on a team. I'm part of a A global company with people all around the world. So, I just, I really enjoy the people aspect of the business and couldn't think of doing anything else at this point.

Well, I'm sort of noticing there is a through line between improv, real estate sales, and what you're talking about right now, which is enjoying sort of the serendipity, the spontaneity, the difference in your day-to-day, which is selling. When you work in sales or improv, right, communication, things like that, Every day is different and there's like a spice to life. So could you tell us a little bit about why you decided to pursue sales instead of maybe another opportunity? I mean, did you think, okay, I would be a good salesperson here?

Well, I will say that I did do a couple internships over the summer in my college years, and I tried corporate America. And look, it was very cush and, you know, really 9 to 5, but I could also tell that there was really a cap on the potential of what you could do. And yes, that maybe there was a track to grow in, in management, but it, it, and I really saw, uh, my grandfather and my uncle, they, uh, ran car dealerships. I even had the chance to sell cars one summer, which is, is a whole nother story. But the, the point is, when you're doing sales, there's really no ceiling to what you can do. And I really did love the appeal of that where Look, if you put in the hard work and you have the skill set, that you will be rewarded for that. So I think that was certainly a huge part of it.

I think that's so cool and it speaks to the tenacity that you've had. I'm curious, you became partner 6 years later, I think, at Massey Knackel, I believe the company is.

Yes.

So what was the difference between you and the other employees that were working there? What makes you special that you were able to do that in such a— to me, that seems like a short timeline to go from, you know, salesperson to partner in a company in 6 years.

Well, yeah, I appreciate your saying that, and I was very fortunate, and I certainly learned from the best. And, you know, I was just at a great company that had a great platform, and it was a great way to be introduced to the business. You know, why did I end up going the partner track? Certainly on the production level, For whatever reason, I had, you know, I had a couple very strong years, which is great when you're starting off in the business. Sometimes it takes people longer, but I think I always like looking at the big picture. And I think, you know, to be a partner isn't just, you know, how can I have the best year for myself and how can I make the most commissions? You really have to be thinking about everyone at the company and how do we help grow this? And I just loved being involved and I was always bringing ideas to the, the founding partners. Hey, what do you think about doing this or that? And they were really kind to kind of bring me into the table and be able to discuss these ideas. So, I think it's just being involved. And I think for, you know, for, for the person listening to this right now who's thinking about how, you know, how can I get promoted? How can I do better? You know, I, I think you have to start by turning around that perspective that it's not about how can you succeed if you can bring value to the table. and make your company more successful, you know, that rising tide is going to lift all boats, right?

And it's kind of this idea of becoming an insider, becoming a point of value within a company. So, we'll talk about that in just a minute. But before we do, I want to go back. You mentioned your grandfather already once in this conversation, and you kind of kick off the prologue talking about how nobody in your family was invested in real estate with the exception of one person. And you give some advice that your grandfather had given you throughout this journey as well, or things that you would observe. So, can you talk a little bit more about how he was an influence on you?

Yeah.

I mean, he is the American kind of rags-to-riches story. And by the time he was 21, he had 3 kids, including my mother. I mean, just kind of blown away thinking about what I was doing at 21 years old and just having to provide and going out there. You know, he, the word that he really loved and, and his mantra was tenacity, right? And what, what is it? It's that stick-to-itiveness, right? Where there's gonna be objections, there's gonna be hardship, there's, you know, there's gonna be obstacles in your way. And are you the kind of person who just throws in the towel and, right, and say, well, you know what, that it's, this probably isn't gonna work out, or do you find a way? And so, and he really, by committing himself to that and just Figuring it out and being open to these opportunities. He went from salesperson to manager to eventually buying into a dealership, to having multiple dealerships, to ultimately being on the board of General Motors. So, you know, a pretty remarkable story. But, you know, I just, I always enjoy growing up and hearing his stories. And, you know, it's not just the confidence, but the idea to just jump in and do things even when you don't know how. So for example, I had never written a book before, right? So if you had asked me before we set out to do this, I would've, you know, I wouldn't have known the, the first thing, right? But for me, that was part of the, the journey and the excitement to say, look, we're gonna figure this out. Right. And so that's always been my mentality is it's not like, okay, I can't figure this out. I'm gonna figure out the way to do it. And, um, and I think, uh, that was certainly helpful to him and, and a big part of the advice that he, He left it to me.

It seems like, you know, I've heard some of the conversations you've been on and you talk a little bit about mentorship and mentors and your grandfather in your life. I'm curious as to what your opinion is on someone who doesn't necessarily have that person in their life, how they can go about finding that person.

Yeah, I love the question. And, you know, whether it's real estate or whatever industry that you're attracted to, I mean, we're lucky that there are a lot of in-person events, a lot of meetups, and You know, the, one of the number one questions I get is career advice. James, how do I find a job? Can you connect me with someone? And I try to explain that, look, um, yes, it's a lot easier to get to people today, whether it's through email, whether it's through LinkedIn. But I think all the more importance now that you show up in person. And I tell college students, I say, you know, look, show up to one of these conferences, right? Come into the city for a day and show up. And yes, it's scary. I get it. No one wants to show up to a room where you don't know anybody. But I promise you that if you go up to the person who was speaking on the panel afterwards and just, you know, thank them and see if they'd have any advice, or anyone, you know, can you help point me in the direction? You will find that most people, when you ask them, tell me about how you got started in the business, you know, people love sharing that experience. So I think that's a great way, but I think that only happens in person. So I would definitely Encourage your listeners to get out there and make those in-person connections?

That may be a big ask for 2023, 2024 people. I tell you what, but it does, it stands out. We have a guy that we work with and he often talks about the small thing that makes people stand out to him. He owns a business is when people make eye contact and shake his hand. It's like even that is lost on today. It's impressive. The people that are listening to this should take that advice and heed to it because it's not as hard to stand out anymore because no one wants to even do that bare minimum almost. So, that's just great advice. Now, I'm curious, a lot of people in real estate talk about their first deal. Do you remember your first big deal that you made? Can you tell us a little bit about that, a story around that?

Well, I definitely remember the first deals that I sold and the first deal that I invested in. Why don't I talk about my first investment? Because it started as a brokerage opportunity and turned into, still to this day, one of the best real estate investments that I'd ever made. So, through the NYU network, I had met an aspiring developer, and he knew that I was a broker starting off, and he had found this opportunity in Greenwich Village. And he said, James, I've tied up this great property. I know I got a really good deal on it because I bought it off market. Do you think you can go sell the contract? He wanted to hire me just to go flip the contract and, and have someone else buy it. So, he was in contract for, I think it was $1.9 million, $2 million. And within 2 to 3 weeks, I had offers at $2.5, $2.6 million. So, yes, he had to put up the money at risk, but he could have made $500,000 in 2 weeks just for assigning the contract. So, I'm sitting here already counting my commission. And he says, James, I really appreciate everything you did here, but this is such a great opportunity that I'm going to buy this myself. And so, at this stage, and I'd been doing this for a couple of years, I'd signed up, saved up some of my commissions, but I'd never really invested in a property before. I kind of understood the concept, but I didn't exactly know how it worked. And I said, well, Matt, clearly you got a great opportunity here. Could I come and invest? He says, well, James, it turns out, yes, I'm going out, I'm raising money. And I became his first investor ever. And there was 4 of us in that deal. And, you know, there was so many lessons learned in the story, and I talk about it in the book. First of all, Matt found something off market. So, here's this seller who said, okay, I'm going to save myself a brokerage commission. I don't need to put it out there. He thinks he gets a great price. Clearly, he left a lot of money on the table, but also, he didn't really see the asset and appreciate it for its highest and best use. This was a rundown building. He's having trouble collecting rents. But Matt saw this and said, look, this is an incredible location. I'm going to turn this into a boutique condo conversion, which at the time was kind of risky. There hadn't been a lot of these walk-up buildings sold, but he turns around, does these beautiful floor-through condos. We sell the condos upstairs for $5 million. Now, obviously, there was money that took to do the renovations, but by that point, we'd already doubled our equity in the deal. And we still kept the retail. Now, the ground floor took a couple tries to get the right restaurant in there, but the time we did, and the market continued to improve, we sold the ground floor of that property for $4.3 million, more than double what we paid for the entire property, right? So, we took those profits, we rolled it into an apartment building in Brooklyn that had a lot of air rights, and we knew it was next to a future development site. Sure enough, a year or two later, that owner of that development site comes knocking on our door. Hey guys, can we buy your air rights? So then we sell the air rights, another couple million dollars there, and we still own the apartment building. So, you know, infinite returns. So I think there was so many lessons in that story, and I'm just, I'm very lucky that first of all, I met an incredible trustworthy person. That's really important when you're getting started is it's about the people and having the right partners. So to get, have that opportunity and to understand that, yes, I mean, brokerage, I love brokerage, I love selling properties, but I can't sit here on the sidelines and watch my clients make all the money and not really invest in what I'm preaching.

There are 2 things I'd like to state to the audience real quick, because I think that your story, although it's amazing, it could be somewhat intimidating. People are hearing millions of dollars being tossed around and they might not have a friend who's already in $2 million on a property. that they can co-invest with. And so here are the 2 things. Number one, from your introduction, you state a statistic that I'd like to read to everybody because I think this will kind of like lower the pressure a little bit. You say, if I told you the US real estate investment market is valued at nearly $21 trillion and nearly half of the properties on that market were purchased by individual investors, would you be surprised? And then you go on to say, better yet, Take note of the term individual. You don't need to be a large corporation, a founder of an equity firm, or part of a real estate investing company to take part in these deals. So that's, that's statement number 1. Statement number 2 is something we talked about before we press record, which is that your book is not Rich Dad Poor Dad. You're not competing with Rich Dad Poor Dad. Rich Dad Poor Dad is a book that everybody in our audience has already read or listened to, and it's an introduction to financial literacy with a little bit of real estate investing. language added in. But if you actually want to participate in the deals, given the size that you just kind of outlined and bigger, you need something that's a little bit more complex, something with a little bit more strategy. Somebody like you needs to have written that book. And so that's the conversation that we're having. It is possible, it is achievable, and your book kind of outlines the roadmap to get there. Does all of that kind of follow your thought process as well, James?

Yeah, Nick, it's a fantastic question. It really is the question because I think the number one thing that holds people back from investing is fear. And oftentimes it's lack of capital. And sure, they're going to, you know, if you're listening to this right now, you're saying, okay, James, you just gave me that example of that multimillion-dollar deal, but I'm not independently wealthy and I don't have millions of dollars in the bank. So that makes a ton of sense. Right. But what I talk about in the book is There's an incredible opportunity here because if you can find the right property and the right story, right? So, you've done the work, so you've researched the area, you've gone through, you've looked at a lot of different listings, and you find a great off-market deal that others don't know about. That is currency, right? And you can bring that to a trusted partner who has that track record and that capital relationships and say, look, I'd love to. I've got this great opportunity. I'd like to bring it to you and partner with you. Can we work on this together? And that's a great way to get started. And sure, you know, you want to invest alongside, but you might not have your investor network built out. So, it's really, um, what's amazing about real estate investing and why I prefer it over the stock market is with real estate investing, you can gain that insider's edge to investing, right? So, if you have inside information in the stock market, you go to jail, right? If you trade on that.

Yeah.

You're rewarded in real estate when you can find out about things that other people don't know. It's not an efficient marketplace. You don't go and, you know, to E-Trade and buy a property that way, right? You have to go out and find it. And like that story I gave, and yeah, that was close to 20 years ago, it would blow your mind, but there's still so many owners who sell their properties off-market, right? I mean, you, a lot of your audience, I'm sure, have bought homes before or apartments. I mean, that would be crazy if you didn't list with the broker and they put it on the Multiple Listing Service, if you just kind of took the first call that came along. But that happens, and it happens a lot in commercial. So, I think that's really the point is, and of course, you know, this book, what I wanted it to be was actionable. So, after you read it, you understand how this works. Now, I wanted it to be practical. It's not theory, right? This is how you go and find property. Okay? This is the team you need to build. This is how you do it. This is how you partner, right? And so, after you read this, if you do the work and you really study, right, you're going to have that insider's edge. I found that very early on as even a broker. I was 3 months in the business, and before I could start picking up the phone and calling people, our firm said, no, study a neighborhood. And you need to get to know every single sale that took place, know where the rents are, know about all the new zoning changes. And look, after intensely studying that for 3 months, I knew more about the area than any other broker in the entire city. So there's that. I, I love the expression jack of all trades, master of none. This is really something where if you pick the asset class where you want to invest and you really dig in, and I'm not talking about years, I'm talking about months. Like, really study the market, look at a lot of opportunities. You're going to find something that people don't know about, and that has tremendous value.

Yeah.

You say in the book, I remember one of your tips was if you study a market for 90 days, you'll know more than 90% of the general investors in the area, which is so cool to think about because it's not, it's not eating an elephant in one bite. It's one bite at a time.

That's right.

So, I'm curious, do you, would you mind giving maybe any insider tips? And I know you outlined a lot of this in your book, but maybe for our listeners today, you can give some insider tips on how they can go about studying that. Is it just getting on Google? How do you go about finding these properties?

Yeah. So, there are so many resources and some of them are publicly available. Some of them are data provider services. I mean, it's amazing to think that with commercial property, there are services where It not only shows who owns the property, it shows you what they paid for it. It shows you what debt they have on the property. So, you know how much they owe on it, right? You know what their property taxes are. It's all available. So, there's a lot of different data providers that offer that up. Sure. For even for, you know, no cost, you can go onto these online listing services to find out what's on the market. There's not really a de facto Multiple Listing Service like there is for residential. So yes, it's a little more difficult to go find these opportunities, but that actually— the fact that it is an inefficient market makes it all the more appealing, because if it was easy for everybody to get all the information and see everything that was available, there'd be a lot more competition. So, but you know, Luke, you can do as much research as you want online, and it's helpful to To understand the trades and see what's, what's out there online, but there's no substitute for walking the block. And I tell you, when I started off in the brokerage business, I walked every single building in the Chelsea neighborhood. This is before Google Earth and actually took a physical photo of every building. And people are laughing and like, oh, James, that's crazy. Why would you ever do that? Well, I will tell you the act of going to every single property, standing in front of it, taking a photo. Meeting the supers in the neighborhood, talking to the retail tenants, it was invaluable, right? So, I think real estate is so much in-person and it's tangible, which is also a lot of the appeal. You're not researching some company's quarterly statement. You're out there, you're looking, you're seeing, okay, what are the new tenants that are opening up? What's the story with this building? Why is it all closed up? Right? And so, What I found is oftentimes these great opportunities, you see them as you're going by and you'd say, well, I'm going to call this owner, right? I'm going to pick up the phone and I see this building's been sitting vacant for a long time. I'm going to call and see if they listen to an offer.

The Book Thinkers family may or may not know this, but I've invested in a couple multifamily properties in the Seacoast, New Hampshire area, which is where I went to college, and I've invested with a couple of friends. And one of them who acts as our sort of in-house property manager right now, he lives in the town that we purchase in and he knows builders. His wife is a realtor. He goes to networking events. He's lived in the area for a long time. He shops there. I mean, he's there every single day. And so yes, we are presented with opportunities because of his networking behind the scenes, like insider tips, which are legal, not the stock market, but in real estate, right? They are the differentiator. They are your positive competitive edge. And so, I just wanted to give another example of what walking the block might look like. It could mean living in that area and spending all of your time networking about the fact that you're in real estate.

Yeah, Nick, it's a great point, and it's a great way for the listeners to start off is to start in your own backyard, right? Because you know the landscape, you see where there are opportunities for growth, you see what the neighborhood needs. And you have that advantage when you know people, right? This is really a business about the professionals, the local experts. So, I'm sure your friend who's been successful at finding apartment buildings to buy in New Hampshire is he knows all the local players. So, when something comes up, I'm sure that he's most of the time getting the first look at these opportunities.

So, do you think that everyone should get into real estate? Do you think that this is something, this is a game that most people should play to build wealth?

Yeah. And I do address this early on that this is still, there is inherent risk here, even though we're talking about a physical asset. And look, the idea of investing is there is a chance that you're going to lose your investment, right? And that is possible. And if you set it up in the right way, and yes, of course you should get legal advice and how to put, you know, structure a company with a, with an LLC so you're protected. But you could still lose your investment and sometimes it's to no fault of your own. And unfortunately, kind of, we look at the last 3 to 4 years, you know, COVID, who would've ever expected that hitting? And then after that, when we were finally recovering in the investment world, once rates started going up the middle last year, all of a sudden the cost to refinance these properties became a lot more expensive and that put a lot of negative pressure on pricing. So, You have some of the top owners in the world, and they're just, unfortunately, they are stuck in this cycle. So, there are going to be situations where you find an incredible opportunity, you execute in the right way, and the timing just doesn't work out. So, I would not say if you've got $100,000 saved up in the bank, that plow it right into a real estate investment, right? So, but I think it is something as you look to grow your portfolio, To have it to diversify and again, to have some control over it. There's also tremendous tax benefits and reasons, and I go into this in the book on how I've seen investors and generational where they have, you know, held onto these properties and they're doing it for long-term cash flow. They're able to depreciate the asset over time, which helps shield the cash flows that they receive. There's a lot of reasons. Why you would want to consider it. And then when it's time to sell, you also have the ability to exchange it. And instead of paying capital gains at the time, to actually defer the gains into a future property. So I don't know if I'm getting too technical for you all, but just needless to say, there's a lot of reasons why as an investment class, it makes a lot of sense.

No, absolutely. And that's exactly what I was going to say. No, it all makes perfect sense. And I understand exactly what you're saying. I'm curious as to what are some of the most common mistakes that you see people make early on when they're trying to invest in real estate?

Yeah, I think that some people get discouraged quickly where this is a numbers game, right? So you can't just think, oh, well, okay, I looked at a couple properties and it was too expensive or the seller wasn't realistic. I mean, I hear that all the time, right? It's just the answer is more. You really, and again, if there's only 2 or 3 opportunities available, then you need to expand your search criteria because you need to look at dozens and dozens of opportunities. So, and so I think that's one. I think the other thing is, and I'm kind of aware of this as a broker, is you do have to, this is a business about reputation and not saying that people would do something that would not be reputable, but I think sometimes when people are starting off, You know, they try to present themselves as being accomplished and having the ability, and they're not ready to perform. And that's a really bad situation when you make an offer on a property, the broker, you know, tees it up, and then all of a sudden you don't have your equity or your debt lined up and you can't perform. So it's just, that's why I think it's important and great advice to kind of go in with a credible partner who's done this before, that has the ability, the balance sheet to close it. Because what you don't want to do is make an offer or start getting a reputation out there that you're not credible.

So, James, you've been involved in the sale of over 500 properties. Ryan Serhant writes the foreword to your book and he says, I always, you know, I recommend call James Nelson. He's the best. Like, you're an author. Why are you focusing on this book and the podcast? What's the why behind the scenes? What does this do for you?

Yeah, really appreciate your asking that. And it's really, uh, for the love of it. I mean, it, it's, uh, I really enjoy giving back. I mean, even early on, I, I didn't say it, but that developer that I met, I was actually an adjunct professor. So kind of ironic that a couple years into the business, I'm teaching a class and he's the developer. But, um, I just really enjoy it. And I think because it is such a difficult business for people to understand or break into, That I want to make it accessible, right? It doesn't have to be that complicated, right? But right now, it's kind of one of those businesses where unless if you know someone, it's really difficult to get into it. And so, I just wanted to break that open where just make it accessible where people want to learn about the business, they have the tools, right? And so, the book has been a great way again to give practical, actionable advice, but The podcast, look, I love doing it. I enjoy, I learn things every time I interview people and I ask the questions that I want to know. And I'm now 3 years into it, 175 interviews. And these are some of the most legendary investors. And I always want to know, tell me about your first deal. Tell me how you got into it. Right? And so, it's just, it's amazing to hear these stories. So, uh, I've really enjoyed it. And I, I think getting the feedback is really most gratifying when I hear someone say, hey, James, I read your book. Thank you so much. I've put it into practice. I just made my first investment. It really makes it all worthwhile.

I tell you what, I love that. And you can tell that you have a passion behind it. We can feel your energy, and I love that. So, thank you for coming on here and sharing that. Now, selfishly, I want to ask you about your kids and what you're teaching them. One of your boys has a really, really great name, similar to a name that I guess— But selfishly, I want to ask because I have 3 kids of my own. They're younger, but I've also gotten some messages from our community that appreciate these questions because they're young parents as well. So, what are things that you have been teaching your boys? Are you telling them to get into real estate? Are you letting them choose their own path? How are you raising them and what are you teaching them?

Yeah.

I love that question and the name Luke as well, who, yes, is my oldest. You know, they see what I'm doing and they see that I love it. And so as a result, you know, they're saying, well, we want to get into real estate. Okay. And do they really understand what it's all about? And so I've actually done the opposite, which is, you know, go in and now my oldest has just finished up his freshman year in college. I said, go into this with an open mind, right? Go see what's out there because just because this was my path and it was, it worked out for me. Doesn't mean that you're going to find something even better for yourself. So, I would say to really encourage your children to be open-minded, try a lot of different things. I mean, again, if I didn't do that internship in college in corporate America, and by the way, corporate America is awesome for a lot of people, and if you're wired in that certain way, it just wasn't my DNA. So, I think Really, the advice is to encourage them to explore. I think the other thing is, and this is kind of a couple of years in the future, but my son also asked, well, Dad, of course, you'll have a job for me and you'll make introductions. And I'm like, look, you're going to want to make your own relationships and connections, and you're going to want to do it on your own, right? And so, I think for me, that was a great thing to do. And sure, I could have gone and worked at the family car dealership, but I said, You know what? I want to forge my own path. So, hopefully, that's helpful.

Yeah, absolutely. It's such a good, powerful story. I love it. I saw a tweet that you put out and it was about you signing your book at your college. 25 years later, you're like, I have signed books at my college bookstore. How did that feel for you? Like, what was going through your mind at the time? Did you ever think that was going to be something that you were going to have, like your book in a In your college bookstore?

No, not even close. I mean, yes, I was an English major, but the idea of writing a book, let alone getting published and having it available, not just at Colgate, at my alma mater, but in the window at Barnes& Noble across from my office on Fifth Avenue, to see it there was really mind-blowing. But I'm just, I'm so grateful to the team, and you all know what it takes to get a book out the door. You know, starting with, with, with my agent, uh, Kevin Anderson and McGraw-Hill, such an incredible publisher. And, um, most importantly, my writing partner, Rachel Hartman. And I know people write books and, you know, sometimes you have someone who is your ghostwriter and, and, and maybe they're mentioned in the foreword, but I said, no, no, Rachel's name goes on the front of this book because it was so collaborative. And so I'm just grateful, um, again, that we had the right team.

Yeah.

To, um, to really give this, this book the best shot. And it was actually Ryan Serhant who, yes, wrote The Ford, who made those introductions at the start. And he always said, James, if you're going to do something, go big. And look, I don't want to discourage people from self-publishing. Get it out there, do it. But he said, look, if you really want this to be the biggest commercial success that reaches the widest audience, you want to really go for it. So, It's been such an incredible experience. And I do, I love when I can show up not just to my alma mater, and yes, I've gone and lectured at NYU, Columbia, Cornell, Wharton, but I even like, I went out to Queens College where I spoke to their business school, and in a room full of 150 people, I said, how many of you have experience with commercial real estate? And not one hand went up. That's crazy. And so, you know, to bring books and tell them, look, commercial real estate is an industry, we're open, we're inclusive, we want people to get involved with this, was a really powerful thing to be a part of.

Yeah, it's a special message. James, we're trying to keep our podcast to 30 minutes, but I think we both got caught up in these questions, which is great. And I'm going to ask 2 more because why not? We're having fun. My first question is for anybody that's listened to the conversation so far today and they're like, James seems like a cool guy, still not sure if I want to buy a copy of the book, what do you have to say to them? Any kind of last-minute takeaways that people can