How JK Molina Built A 6-Figure Business Ghostwriting Tweets From A Third World Country

I don't get to talk about ghostwriting very often because, jk, as you know, ghostwriting is a very insider sort of thing. So just to get everyone primed here, how'd you get into it? Maybe high level. Who are some of the people that you work with, and what are some of the topics that you typically ghostwrite about?

Yeah. So what's up, everyone? J.K. molina here. Thanks, JKO, for get a new year. And a little bit about how I got into ghostwriting is I just started lurking on Twitter for a while, like, thinking about anything, really anything I learned about marketing. And then this guy named Lawrence King on Twitter, he said he posted a picture about Gillette's social media. Gillette has, like, 130,000 followers at the time. And they had like, three posts, three likes for post. And then he said, this Guy's getting paid $80,000 a year to get 3 likes on a tweet. Like, how much can you get paid if you're, like, not bad at your job? Like, you know. Yeah, that makes sense. So I just started reaching out to people. This was started, like, starting early on, and usually to people who have, like, higher ticket services. So, like, maybe they have a $2,000 service or they sell a $700 course, and I'll go stride for them at the price that they were selling their product at. So first client ever was like, 700 course. Like, dude, like, I'll write for you. If I get you, like, two sales, then it's like a hundred percent roi, you're in. And it's like, yeah, I'm in. Okay, cool. And then I just kind of started going, like, doubling down on it. 5k services, 10k services, and eventually just kept going that way. And it was just kind of. Everything was like. I like to call it luck because I really got lucky to see that tweet, and people were like, really asking for it. So, yeah, I stumbled upon that and realized that you don't really need to be, like, really that good at it. You just have to be, like, above average than most people and you'll do fine. So that's how I started.

And so you were. You were looking for more so individuals and creators rather than brands and companies or both.

Yeah, usually. Usually individuals. I don't write for brands or companies because it's just hard when it's easier when you have a face on it. And in the beginning, it was just because they were already selling something, like, expensive. So I'm like, okay, just one sale, like, pays me. Like, I'm Paid for. Right. So, yeah, just brand. Just people.

Did. Did you have any projects in the beginning? Because that's you taking on risk. You know, I mean, I talk about this all the time. I think it's amazing to do, quote, unquote, free work in the beginning where you're proving, you know, okay, you're paying me to do something here. Were there any early creators that you wrote for where you weren't able to get a single sale or you made zero money on the project or any of that happened?

Oh, yeah, a ton. And it was kind of my bad, My bad for choosing somebody who wasn't selling that, like, expensive of a thing. And I was just like affiliating 50% for like $40 gumbo products. $50 gombo products. That was a mistake. But something I always say, and it's one of the threads that actually did the best. It's a big part of running a business is making white lies about your ability to execute and then being like, doing it, and then it's no longer a lie. And if it doesn't work, then you just refund them. So that kind of gave me safety. It was like, okay, if it doesn't work, then okay, it's on me. I'll just give them the money back. But if it works, then you're the genius, right? You made it work. So you make white lies about your ability to execute in the beginning. I just feel like that's how everybody should start.

You know, I love that because again, one of the things that I think holds a lot of writers back is they want to be paid a certain amount of money before they even start or before they even try. And I really encourage writers. It seems like you went this route of go and prove and see if you can actually do it. And if you can't do it well, then you shouldn't have gotten paid in the first place. Right. Like, because you're not being paid to deliver the result. And if you can do it, then you have all of this business. So maybe just paint for people by taking this path, you know, how quickly did this grow for you and where did you start and what did the income scale like?

Yeah, so first client ever paid me 750 bucks. No, 700 bucks. I remember that. It hit me on PayPal because people took a big chunk of it anyway. But I remember those $700 and what.

You would you have, what was entailed for the 700?

That was five tweets a day, plus one thread every week.

Yeah. You net net that out, you're getting paid, like, 50 cents an hour, basically.

It was. It was bad. Yeah, it was bad. The thing is, you. Like, in the beginning, it's not so much about, like, making the money first, right? That's. They kind of sell you that picture. It's about proving that you can do it. So. And I don't tell this a lot, but I closed the client on October, and I launched a ghostwriting course in November because I was like, I already did the job. I already got the credibility, right? So in the beginning, it's kind of just getting your foot in the door. It's like, yeah, I've already done it. And you get screenshots. That's why there's, like, this, like, debate about should you work for free or should you not? If you. If you can get them results in the beginning, then I think you should, because then you can get all the social proof, and then you'll be able to charge more, like, way more later. But to give you an idea of income scales, I was raising my prices efficiently. It was. That was too much. Five, two today, and one thread a week was too much. So what I did was three tweets a day and like, one thread a week, something like that. So it went up to 700, then 1100. Then I started charging 36 content a month at the top. But then I started reading Hormozi Alex Mosey, like, how to craft an offer. And I understood that it's not about, like, the monthly thing. It's not about tweets and threads. It's about where you can actually get them. So the guy that was my latest Ghostwriting client was 25k. And the way I did it was like this guy was selling 30k packages. I'm like, oh, okay, so you just. You just need one, right? And I can. I can get you one. This was a tax advisor guy. Yeah, I just need one. Oh, well, that makes sense. Then this other dude that has, like, a huge Amazon store, and he, like, helps other people with Amazon. It's like, how much is one deal worth to you? Is like 100k. Awesome. Well, my service is 25k, by the way. You want to get in? It's like, yeah, sure, right. So the. It didn't. What changed for me wasn't so much, like, the consistency of it because I was stuck at the same income level for a long time. It was understanding how to craft an offer and learn what people actually want. Like, people don't want writing. They don't want certain amount of words. They want to make more money than they pay you. So if you frame that right, you will be able to charge way higher prices. You know what I mean? That's why I was like very like talking a lot about the market in the beginning about how you shouldn't want to affiliate for $20 gumbo products or $50 products. You want to go for the higher people because they think in a different way. Because, like, the thought process behind a 50 purchase and a 500 purchase is kind of the same. If you make me more money than I pay you, then the money is yours, right? What would it take me take for you to give me a hundred bucks? For me to give you 500 bucks, right. So if you understand that, that you're not a writer, you're a magic box. A magic box in which people will put $1 in and get $5 out, then your business kind of changes. The moment you understand that this, this is.

Yes, yes. Okay, so let's just recap this for everyone because this is a really important point. So in the very beginning, writers think they get paid for the number of words, which is what you were doing.

It's.

It's like I want five tweets a day. I want one thread a week, right? I get paid for the number of words I produce. The next level up is I get paid for the, the project as a, as a whole. I'm not being paid per hour or I'm not being paid per word. It's like I'm, I'm. I'm being paid per month, you know, or I'm being paid as like I'm on call to do all this stuff within these constraints for you. And then the layer above that is I get paid on the result I deliver for you. So if I'm selling your a hundred thousand dollar product, then I deserve a quarter of that, right? I deserve 25k or whatever it is. And it sounds like you. What was the time span of that? How quickly did you move from. You just started to kind of that realization?

Maybe like 15 months. Ish.

That's fast, man.

Kind of like that. But like, it really. I stayed at the same income level for a long time, like for a, for a long couple, for a lot of months. It's kind of that place where you know what you have to do, but you just don't do it. It's like, oh man, I know that I have to scale, I know that I have to get systems, but you just don't. But it really, like, what made the change was Learning offers, that was the main one. When, when you learn how to package an offer, then one. One client is just going to change your entire life because you could charge so many higher prices. And the magic box analogy kind of helped too. So the change in the offer was immediate, but, like, what led me to that journey was like 50 months. Yeah.

Fascinating. Props to you. Props to you. Because that is a huge. That is a lot of growth trajectory in a short amount of time, if you really think about it. Dickie, do you. Do you have something you wanted to ask?

No. So I'm just trying to think. You take on a new ghostwriting client, you're writing tweets, you're writing threads now to help them sell their main offer. Talk to us about your approach. You take on a new client. What's your research process? What's your writing process look like? How do you actually go and generate those?

Yeah, so that's a good question, and that's a long answer. But in the beginning, I always try to ask questions that make people tell me what's impressive about them and who do they want to write like. So I have this philosophy that some people disagree with, and I understand that Twitter is just saying one thing a thousand different ways. Like, I, A lot of people disagree with that. I, I think that's just exactly how it works. But I always ask clients certain amount of questions that allow me to put them in the right frame about what to write to them. Right. To write about. So some questions I ask is who's playing the game like you want to play it. By the way, a lot of people say Dicky and Nicholas, like, a lot. So who's playing the game like you want to play it. If you could trade audiences with anyone, who would you trade with? Because that kind of gives you an idea of who you're writing to. I ask, what are some things that people think are impressive about you with figures and numbers? Because. Because that, like, allows me to. Because threads usually, you know, you have to flex a little bit and then you write the thread. That's kind of how it goes. So then I ask, what else did I ask? There's one. There's one more good one. What. What do people ask you in the DMs, right? Because usually got like a good question is, if you want to know what's right about, see what people ask you about. Because it means that if one person has it, probably some other people have the same question. And the other one is when people say, thank you for X, what's X? Right. So I asked those questions. It kind of puts me in the same frame of, okay, this is how they write. This one I talk about and what topics? Like, if I could name my pillars, it'd be copywriting, ghostwriting, and business. What would your pillars be? And they tell me like Amazon, fba, private labeling and copywriting, right? And then when I have all those questions, what I do is I create swipe files. So I follow this. Just collections of the guys, they told me about videos of the things they said and, and yeah, like viral content on those topics. Because again, Twitter's just saying one thing a thousand different ways. And I'll usually go to a little bit of unrelated niches. And that's, that's really like, that's useful. Because let's say I have this, let's say I have this copywriting, right? So I'll go on viral videos about things that are not copywriting sometimes maybe like fitness, right? So if you go to fitness accounts, you'll see something like, I went to the gym 1200 times in three years, and these are the five main lessons I got. And then it's like, dude, like that went viral. Just use it for writing. So it's like, I've written this many words every day for this many years. This is the five main topics that I learned. So you won't have to spend $10,000 in coaching, right? And then you kind of use those things from unrelated niches and the things they told you about and you write swipe calls. Because I don't see my client as this individual client. I see the client as a combination of the accounts they told me they want to be like, right? So I have all these swipe files in front of me. And when you have all this great content that has already performed well from other people, all you have to do is just kind of copy it. Not plagiarize it, but copy and simply be like, okay, this is a list format, but this is talking about this topic and it ties to that idea, right? And then I just click, right? That's one thing. The other thing I do is kind of a free flow conversation. I call the Joe Rogan call. So Joe Rogan call is exactly what you think it is. I just get on a call and ask them everything about their life and their story and things that seem interesting because chances are, if it's interesting to me, it's probably be interesting to other people, right? So I asked them, how did you build this business? What were your low points? How do you get out of this, what are your tricks for this? And then when you. There's this software called Otter, like the animal Otter, it like transcribes everything that's on a zoom call. So it's like there. If you ask the questions, right? They're essentially writing the threads for you, if you think about it. So like, oh, so what are like. And you tell them, please be quick and say them in list format. Like, what are the main lessons you got from building your eight figure company? They're like, oh, hire well, you know, detach from the process, sales queues, everything. And they write the thread for you if you ask the questions, right? So that's, that's kind of how I do it on the Joe Rogan call. And then I just write. So now my sweet spot is like two to three tweets a day and two threads a week. Because I just feel like that's it. Because if you see like how this guy's, like how this guy's growth goes, it doesn't go like, like a curve, like it doesn't work like that. It somehow works like a stair like this, right? So it's like little threads will be a big jump and then a thousand tweets won't do as much as that one thread, right? So that's why I focus on getting lucky. I kind of, I have this cohort going around and they'll tell me what do I do. And 90% of the time the answer is just write more threads. Like literally that's what's gonna blow you up. So that's kind of how I do it. So recap. I ask questions, Joe Rogan call, make swipe files and write as many threads as possible. I can go into like, what's my threat? Like methodology is. But to answer the question, that's what it was.

I love that. I love the Joe Rogan. I think it would almost be helpful to know what those questions are and do that reflection on your own, right? All that's going to do is unlock a ton of potential things for you to write about if you ask yourself those questions. So I might follow up to ask you about them. But going on that thread loop, I think you replied to one of my tweets one time. It was like, at the end of the day, it's just write more threads, bro. It's like some, some difference between this big guide and it's just right more. And I saw in your traffic and Offers club, which we can talk about a little bit after this, of the perceived value of a thread is the reason people click on it. And I really like that insight. So can you talk about that process, how you think about crafting thread hooks, writing threads in general and. Yeah, just jam on that for a sec.

Yeah, that's my. That's my favorite one. So I have a saying, the higher the perceived. The perceived as the keyword here, the perceived value of the threat, the more people will open it. And you know how most of what's going to get your thread going viral is the hook. Like. Like, content obviously has to be well, right? So 50% is entire thing, and the other 50% is the first tweet. So the perceived value of it has to be high. And I'll give you an example for this. So right now, there's a lot of threads I really don't like, but there's like 10 tips to 10x your writing ability, right? It's like, okay, well, cool, right? But if you said something like, I've written 10,000 words and I paid $10,000 in coaching, and they all taught me the same 10 things, here they are, so you don't have to pay for it and save three years of your life, then it's like, what's the perceived value of the first one? It's 10 tips, right? And what's the perceived value of the second one? $10,000 in three years of experience. So it's like, oh, wow. Like, yeah, some dude does it really well on Twitter, Barrett o'. Neill. He says something like, let me think about it. Okay, so you could say something like, how to manage a team, right? Or you said, we paid McKinsey $175,000 for them to consult us. Here's everything they taught us. So you don't pay them, right? Or you could say something like, I spent three years doing this. Here's what you actually like. Here are the main tips. So you gotta, like, people write threads in a way that make me, the reader, feel like a choreograph. Like, oh, wow, I gotta write the. I've gotta read this thread and open it for this guy, right? What, have you switched it up? And you are like, if you don't read this, like, you're actually making a mistake because you're giving up something. So. Well, one of my most viral tweets, quote unquote, viral, but that I got was I wrote a thread on how to close your first Ghost Ride client. It got like 70 retweets, something like that. But then I was like, okay, this. This sucks. And then I was like, okay, let me write Another thread about, these are the formats that I use to get paid $2,000 per client. Read this. Got a thousand retweets, right? Same content, didn't change anything. Just the hook was different. The perceived value was different. So think about how can you make people, like, think if I don't open this, this is a mistake. Raise the perceived value of what you're writing about, and then people will click on it. Obviously, the content has to be good, but the hook just starts like that.

You know, I love this point because I feel. I feel so. I feel like such a consumer when I say this, but I've noticed that myself lately. I will like hooks of threads. I won't even read the whole thread, but I'll like the hook just because the perceived value is so high. High, you know, and then I'll like it and I'll. And then I'll scroll and then three seconds later I'll be like, why did I like that? I didn't even read it. Why? I don't understand. But it's. But you're right. If you can grab that. That hook and it seems like it's so heavy, like, they pack so much into it. You're like, oh, well, this must be worth my time.

So. Yeah.

Yeah, it's interesting.

That's. That's a lot of this guy, Trump fan. I really like that guy. So he'll. He'll put saws in those hooks, man. He'll be like, this is the McDonald's strategy word. $4.7 billion. It's like, how can you not open that? Yeah, you know, it's like, there's no reason.

So I feel like I. Okay, so another thing I want to emphasize for everyone here is you obviously spend a lot of time creating these swipe files and creating templates for your. For yourself. So how much then do you notice there's efficiency in crossover, where once you work with someone that's in a certain vertical or selling a certain product, doing a second person ghostwriting for a second person that's somewhat similar becomes even easier. Or where do you find efficiencies in your process?

Yeah, it's kind of. It's kind of the same thing. It does. It kind of the same thing works for everything. So, like, okay, so like in copywriting, right? And in online business in general, like, this is. This is a really core lesson. Once you understand a little bit about how big promises work and big ideas work and big problems and sentence flow, like, you can pretty much whip out, like, a page whenever you want. Once you understand how traffic works, how ads work, and how offers work, then you can, like, launch a company, like, in one day. Because you only have to figure it out once. Once you understand how threads work and how, like, content on Twitter works and the third language works, you only have to figure it out once. Right? You might have some threads that blow up and some that don't, but it's like, it's not something that, like, cross pollinates and like this one cross pollinates to that one. It's like, once you understand that, you can kind of use it for everything. Right. But you kind of don't get to choose when you understand it. Like, you don't get to choose when it's like, oh, yeah, that's already an ingrained thing. It's like at some point you just do. But you won't get there if you don't write. So, like, it does. It does. So if I could, like, put it, like a number on it, I'd say like a couple months, maybe like six months. Six months. You write every day on Twitter. You'll understand how the. How the game works and you'll understand how to write a good thread, but it's not. It's. It's something that you understand once and then you can apply to every time after that.

You know, I love that. I don't think I've ever heard someone articulate it that way, but that is 100%. That's been my experience to. You're right. I love that.

Yeah. You only. You only do it once. You only have to figure it out once.

What? I. I'm fast or Dickie?

Go ahead.

No, no, go ahead.

I was going to say another question. I. I want to ask more writers this. What do you feel like the difference is between a freelance writer and a ghostwriter?

I don't. Okay. So to be fair, Ghost writer, the way I use it, is just kind of a fancy word to say. I tweet for you. Right. So I just don't feel there's. There's not much difference. Like. Like some people tell me on my calls, which kind of hurt. They're like, oh, so basically you're a community manager. I'm like, well, yeah, but no, you know, so it's. To me, it's like kind of the same thing really, is because ghostwriting can be books. I don't write books. I only do Twitter. Right. I named it Ghostwriter because it's really sexy and it sells well, but it can't. It's pretty much the same thing. What do you think?

I agree. What I've been thinking about lately is I think freelance writers are typically. I more think of blog posts a bit. And I also feel like freelance writers are more for companies like, companies that are like, we just need a bunch of content on our site. Ghostwriters, I feel like, is a newer niche that is like, a person writing on behalf of a person, you know, and it sounds like you target mostly people as opposed to companies.

Yeah, it's. I've never done blog post writing. I've never done email writing. I've only done tweets. But what I like about it is that the feedback is immediate. You launch an offer, you'll know that day if you got sales or not. And usually that speed is what makes the sales process easier. Because then it's like, one day you're like, at nothing, and the other day, oh, wow, you can sign a 5k client congress, you make 2k. I don't know, like, commission.

So I feel like this, this would be really valuable for people. So maybe just walk through. What does your. Your client acquisition process look like? Cause I get asked this question all the time. How do you get clients? So what's the first thing you do? You know, you talked about who you look for. So do you DM them? Do you find their email, like, walk through the process?

Right? So mostly I do Twitter now because, like, now it's easy to get clients because I have a follower, right? But let's ask this question. If you didn't have a following, right, you were just starting. You're, like, from scratch, right? So what you do is because there's so many ghostwriters now, there are many people offering. You want to nail, like, three things. I always say that every single marketing problem that you'll have boils down to three things. It's either traffic, market, or offers, right? And I've talked about this. So let's say. Let's say you wanted to get a girlfriend, right? You're jacked, you're cool, you're handsome, but you don't talk to any girls. You're a good offer, but you don't have enough traffic, so you don't get a girlfriend. Let's say you're, like, insecure. You just don't work out. You just don't do anything. But you talk to ten girls every day. You actually go out there, but you still don't get a girlfriend, right? That's not a traffic problem. That's an offer problem. And then, yeah, like, think about it. That makes Sense. And then there's a third one. There's market, right? And it's, let's say you're jacked, you're incredibly good at whatever you do, and you talk to every girls. But then everywhere you go, the girls are married or they don't or like, oh well, shit, then your market's horrible, you'll never get a girlfriend, right? So that's a big problem.

Amazing.

So it's always traffic, market or offer. So let's figure out how to solve all those three, right? With sales, not, not women. We'll talk about this some other day if you want. But okay, so let's talk about market markets, people who usually they want to sell more, right? So they want to sell more. That's why I reach out to people who are selling high ticket services. They have an email list already or they're just in it for the connections. They want connections, right? So why do I target those people? Because it's a hungry market, they always want more, right? And they can pay a lot of money because they're already expensive. So offers, offers is you add a crap. Again, it's the magic box analogy. You're not a writer, you're a magic box. And if I give you one dollar, you have to give me five back. And if you understand that you will make a lot of money. So once you have that is, you gotta pack your offer in a different way than other ghostwriters. What do most people do? They'll tell people, dude, I write five tweets a day for you and one thread a week. And this is this much. Now for you, the writer, the ghostwriter, it makes sense. You can put a value on it. But for someone who just joined Twitter, they've been on Facebook, on Instagram all their life and they're a heavy hitter, they have their agency, they don't understand what a tweet is worth or a threat is worth. So you have to speak their language, right? So what if you change it up? Everybody speaks the same language, which is money. So you tell them, okay, so you have an email list, right? And you're charging how much. You ask them, how much do you make per email sub? They're like, I make $3. Oh, okay, so what if I write for you for free, but for email sub that I get, I get $1. It's like, oh, you know what? Well that makes, that makes sense, right? And then, okay, you're selling a service, right? It's a five thousand dollar service. It's like, dude, I'll write For you for free. But everyone that we close via my tweets, I get 1.5 K. So like, you will always make money. You have like zero risk. Like, oh, okay, that makes sense. Oh, it's like, okay, I'm gonna get you those connections. How much is one connection at these worth to you? Because frankly, I'm gonna assume that a lot of people here are on Twitter. People on Twitter, even if you don't know, even if you like, they don't put themselves out there. They have a lot of money like they do. And it's always the guys that have like nine followers and a dog profile picture that are like millionaires and you just, you just don't know they're out there, right? But anyway, what if you tell them like, that I'm gonna get you these connections, right? And how much one of, how much is one of them to you worth to you? It's like, oh, like 50k, right? Oh, well, I'll just write. And until I get you those connections, you pay me 5k to start writing and 5k when you get it, right? And I don't stop writing until you get it. It might take you like a month. Congress, you make 10k in that month. When you frame it, as you're the magic boss, you craft your offer around that, then it just becomes way easier, right? You're not writing threads or tweets. You can focus on what actually like matters, which is getting the sales. Now how do you actually get the sales? Because I saw there was one question here that asked. It sounds like you're only getting followers for your clients. And in a point that's true. But you got to tie threads with something I, I call proving competence or showing your competence. Jack Butcher calls it proving your skill, which is showing that you're good at what you do. So I try to twice a week I'll post something that my clients have done or like in my case, that I have done. That actually proves that you're good at what you do, right? So what would it look in you guys case? Like you would be like some guy from ship 30 took the course and accomplished these amazing things. That's proof, right? What would it look in my case, I did this thing and this client now got this connection, right? It got a guy, got invited to this podcast, made this much money, right? What would it look? If you're an email marketer, you show your open rates and you show how the click through rates and how much money they gave you. So that's like proving your skill. Twice a week. Because once you do that for like two weeks, three weeks, like a month, you're going to start getting people talking about you, right? You're going to say, oh, this guy's good at this thing, right? So you prep that. And then when you get to one month one or month two, that's when you launch the offer. And remember, just like you worked with the magic box analogy, your clients will also work with the magic box analogy. So it's like this. Say your client sells, I don't know, consulting. You can show proof about how, what their consulting has done and what their promise is, right? Your client sales email marketing what they've done and what they can do for other people, right? So what, the way you do it is you prove competence twice a week, right? Case studies, of course, testimonials, A to B's transformation pictures, which is why fitness coaches always post shirtless pictures and fat pictures right next to it. Because it just works, right? It's just proof, right? So you prove your skill. Twice a week, you write threads. I write, I write, I like two to three threads a week. And then eventually you launch a good offer because then you tackle all three things. Market people who want more money, obviously traffic, you're getting all these threads going on and offer, you crafted something that people actually want. So that's how I structure my skit, my ghostwriting thing.

I would have given probably a finger to have heard that five minute clip eight years ago. I wasted so much time as a writer not understanding everything that you just articulated. It's, it's hard, right? It's hard for, for people to wrap their head around. You aren't being paid to write, you're being paid to deliver some sort of outcome or result.

Yeah, exactly. And so it's like, yeah, you're a ghostwriter, but that's just the mechanism, right? It's, you're, you're, you're. I always say, what do you sell? And I'm like, I sell money. Like, and they're like, oh, well, yeah, that makes sense. You know, so that's why in my, like in my marketing, I'm always very direct. I understand. Like, like you're going to make money. That's, that's like the main thing. Whatever I talk about, it's just easier. It's just, I just, I just feel like, like you just have to be direct and when you speak in that language. And this tweet, you guys have seen it a thousand times and I've also tweeted it a thousand Times. People don't buy web design, they buy more conversions. People don't buy email marketing, they buy more sales. People don't buy ghostwriting, they buy more money. And understand that, understand the language that you have to speak.

Any service business, you're either making them more time or saving them up. Making them more money or saving them time. And I think people like to dance around that fact sometimes of like, oh, I'm providing a helpful. It's like, no, if you're, if you've ever been on the buying end of a service like that, you don't think in any other terms than what is this person doing to make me more money or save me time? Otherwise just get off the phone because I have those two goals. I want to go make more money or save time.

Right.

That's a great, that's a great point, Dicky. My, my whole mentality on this changed the moment that I was the agency owner hiring people. And I saw it in complete reverse and people would get on the phone and try and pitch me on all the hand wavy like we're, we're building your brand. And yeah bro, you're like, I don't care.

I have a story about this.

I mean, go ahead, go ahead.

So someone, I'm receiving some emails on someone who wants to partner with Ship 30 to promote it in like a corporate learning environment. Their first email was, hey, you know, would love to jump on a call, talk about xyz. Here's what we do, here's like our learning platform, here's where we put it, here's mission, all this stuff. I snoozed it for three weeks and said maybe I'll follow up if they, whatever. Because all he basically did was email me and say, hey, I need you to do a bunch of work for us to then go and do this, send another email. All he did was re. Like re respond to that one. So it showed up underneath like, hey, just following up on this, ignore it again. Because he didn't change it at all. He then sent me an email this morning that said, dickie, let me put money in your pocket as the subject line and said, I think you missed my first two emails. Here's what we talk about on the call and here's how it's going to make you more money. Listed out six bullet points of all the things, basically skipping this hour long call that he wanted to schedule. I don't know if he followed you on Twitter, jk or what he did in the meantime, but I responded and said, great, let's do this. And I think there's a huge lesson in there. It's like the last thing I or any business owner when you're offering a service, if you email them and say you have to do more work, it is an archive. But if it's I'm going to make you more money or save you time, you're going to read it because that's all we're in the business of doing.

Yeah, exactly. It ties a little bit to the hormozy equation, how to craft a good offer. So in the in top it's dream outcome, what do people want? And then it's perceived likelihood of achievements, like how likely it is that you're going to get there. Right. And the bottom is time delay, how long it's going to take and effort and sacrifice, how hard is it that you're going to get? So ideally you want to get that equation to infinite because you know how a number divided zero is infinite. You want to get the time delay and the sacrifice as little as possible. And the dream outcome and the perceived likelihood of achievement as high as possible. Which is essentially what that guy did, Nicole. And what that, what's a bad example of that was they told Nicholas, I want to give you high tech solutions to ever changing world about development. Like what the fuck does that mean? You know?

Yes, that is the problem. So again it's like, and I love, it's very refreshing for me. I love that you're from the school of thought, jk because I think in the beginning everyone wants to get paid for the time that it takes them to work. They're like, I spent five hours doing this. I deserve to get paid for the five hours that I spent doing this. And the whole like 0 to 1 shift from I work for someone else to I work for myself is nobody cares how long it took you to do it. They only care about what is the outcome and what does that mean for me. And the moment you get that, you're like, I can now print money for the rest of my life because I understand how to deliver some sort of outcome to someone else and they find that outcome valuable.

Yeah, it's like pretty sure that if I asked you guys like how much do you earn per hour? I don't fucking know. I do. I work one hour a day. Sometimes I work 12. Like I just, I have no idea. Yeah, but you deserve to get paid in proportion to the value that you bring. And it's like, you know how in like in high school or like all through school really, like, you. You didn't brag about how long it took you to homework to make. Like, if you did your homework in 15 minutes, then, like, yeah, you did it. You did it, right? So, like, even if you copied it, you still did your homework in 15 minutes, and it was a good job. So don't brag about how, like, hard you work. Brag about, like, how efficient you are. Are making everything right. So, yeah. So you deserve to get paid in proportion to the value that brings. If it takes you one hour a day to make your clients think, like, oh, I have a great tweet about this from Cold email wizard. The $4,000 client does not need to know that it takes you 11 hours to fulfill the service. They don't need to know. So important to know.

Yes.

All right, so a couple more questions here, because I'm curious. So I got to meet JK in Austin. We had an awesome breakfast, and one of the things we talked about was just how cool it is for you to be 21 years old or however old you are, young, early 20s, with all these things ahead of you.

Right.

You've clearly built a foundation for some exciting things. And I said, look, you could go in just about any direction. And since then, you've launched a community. You've done a lot of stuff with Tweed Hunter. Talk to us. You have all these opportunities right now. What's your. What do you think? You Traffic and offers club, which we'll talk about is your newest thing on top of Tweed Hunter. Take us into your mindset right now.

What do you.

What are your next steps?

Yeah, so right now I have the traffic and offers club, which is you get in, and it's just like, we're talking about, like, it's not going to be a community where you get, like, 97 different messages from 27 different channels. You get in to learn how to get traffic on your offers and how to get more eyes on whatever you sell. So you're not going to get a lot of messages, but you're going to get good messages. So I have that community trafficandoffers IO where we only talk about that. Yeah. So if you log on the page, you'll actually see that, like, the main landing page is how to get a girlfriend. Like, the idea that we talked about about traffic Office market. So that's my main offer now. Just launched this last weekend. And if you want to join, you're welcome to. We can talk there, and you can ask me anything you want.

Amazing.

What?

This landing page is amazing.

I appreciate It. And by the way, that was an offer by a girl named Irina from Web, Will Weaver. So she said, I'll launch your community for you. You don't have to do anything. Just tell. Just. Right. Just, oh, well, that's a good offer. So I just send her my money because that's how it works.

Yes.

Yes, she did.

Well, that is amazing. Out of curiosity, what's. What's your temperature check on? Do you feel like ghostwriting on Twitter is something that is only accelerating? You said you've noticed that other people. A lot of. I've noticed it too, but a lot, A lot of other people are kind of jumping into that space. Are you feeling it be saturated yet? What's your take on it?

I don't. I don't feel like it is because in. In my opinion, like, I have this. I had this tweet the other day. Saturated means that almost everybody in that market sucks. And they don't understand how the offers thing works. So I don't think it is. And the great thing now it's that a lot of big entrepreneurs, like on Instagram and Facebook, they don't know anything about Twitter. So the way I show you how to get clients was how to DM Twitter people. Dude, if you could convince someone be like, what do you sell your mastermind for? He's like, oh, $5,000. Well, give me a UTM for Twitter and I'll just sell them on Twitter for you. If I sell you something, then just give me percentage of it. Like, I think it's just going to go up. Not specifically inside Twitter, but getting people from other places into Twitter with a proven offer.

I think so too. I think more and more people from Facebook and Instagram are coming over to Twitter. I also feel like, I mean, I'm sure you feel this, but I stopped ghostwriting maybe a year and a half ago. And I mean, I remember my previous business partner was like, we thought that that trend was going to end like five, five years ago. And it just keeps going up and up and up. Like, the number of people who need help communicating in the world is there. It's unfathomable.

It's insane. It's insane. And the game's kind of. I was so surprised when I figured this 150,000 follower account, this guy DM me, he had like 70,000. He had 150,000. He's like, oh, by the way, this writing account I write for, that guy, he ghost writes for a writing account. Like, what the hell? That's not how it Works. Right? But there's like, there's so many of them. There's just so many. Like, there's so many. You just don't see them. Because, like you said in the beginning of the call, like, it's like, people will hop on a call and like, oh, who do you go try for? Like, I can't. I can't tell you. Like, that's. That's the only bad thing about this place. We can't say. But they're everywhere.

The one other thing I want to emphasize, too, is there's not just a writing opportunity right now, but there's also a digital technical understanding gap as well. So you have all these people that are maybe great writers or maybe really smart people, but they're like, I literally don't understand how Twitter works, so they have to pay someone else to go, please help me understand how to use this digital platform that I. I remember a couple years ago, I was ghostwriting for people who were New York Times bestsellers. Great writers. They just had no idea how Quora worked or how Medium worked or how Twitter worked, you know? Do you find that, too?

Yeah, A lot. It's. It's a lot. Maybe they're good at YouTube or whatever. They're good at long form. They're just not good at Twitter. It's like the fact that. And this is a good one. The fact that you're good at business doesn't mean you're good at Twitter. So that's really. That's a really good, like, phrase to say in a sales.

Words have never been spoken.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you're in the sales call, you say that. That's really. That's really efficient, by the way. But, yeah.

Oh, this is awesome. Dick, you got any other questions you want to jam on?

No, man.

I got some good takeaways. I think the traffic offer or market problem is one that I'm going to stick around and think about. Positioning yourself as the magic box that leads to more money or more time is something everyone can take away. I like this idea of showing proof two times a week more often. I think a lot of people, they generate results and they don't get comfortable sharing those results enough. I think, Cole, we can do a better job with this, too.

Totally.

I was thinking, I like this perceived value of opening the thread, which is tell the reader that it would be almost. They're losing money or time by not reading it right. How do you turn your thread into. If you don't look at this, you are actually spending money Right.

Yeah.

Or spending time. I really like that idea. So those are a few of my takeaways.

Yeah. Yeah, it's fun. This was great, jk, to jam on. I mean, again, I actually don't. I think we're all in the same boat. I actually don't know that many other ghostwriters. I feel like it's something. We're all kind of in our own little vacuum doing it, so it is fun to jam with other people who are doing it. And thanks for hopping on and sharing with everyone, because I get asked these questions all the time. How do you get a client? How much do you charge? What does the offer look like? How much work are you doing? Thanks for sharing all of that.

Yeah. I'll leave you one last thing, A quote I read today. How much do you charge? As much as you can say without bursting out laughing. That's how much you charge. So keep that. And, like, yes, and you have to make them more, but that's how much you charge. As much as you can say without bursting out of that.

And I would bet. I would bet. How many times have you done that and thought, this is so uncomfortable? And then you say the number. The other person's like, yeah, no problem.

Oh, bro, I'm an expert at that. So they'll tell me, how much do you make? And they're like, oh, I make 7 million a year. So I'll go to the PDF during the call and, like, edit the invoice. Like, oh, by the way, it's twice as much. Just don't know it. Yeah, that's not financial advice, but.

Yeah, but you're right. But you are right. Thanks for jamming. This was awesome. Thanks, everyone, for coming. Hope you walked away with some good takeaways.

Jk, where can people follow you? Learn more about traffic and offers. Where do you want to send them?

Yeah. So if you want to. If you want to talk or follow me, you can follow me at 1. JK Molina. O N E. JK Molina. And on my PIN tweet, you'll see Traffic and Offers club. We can jam there. And thank you guys for the opportunity. This was great. I loved it.

Awesome. All right, jk, Talk soon, dude. And good luck solving your traffic offer market problem.

Oh, yeah. Wherever you're at. Wherever you're at. I appreciate it. All right, dude, see you.