How Tim Stoddart Built Several 7-Figure Business With SEO (And Why He's Writing On Twitter Now)

Welcome to the digital writing podcast where we talk about using writing to capture, keep and monetize attention. If you're looking to build an audience, start a business and scale yourself online, you're in the right spot.

Let's kick this off for everyone that's attending, as you, if you might, you might know, observing on Twitter, this is, I think, round three of Tim and the crew here. Head to head cage match. Blogging versus digital writing. Grabbed your tickets. It's going to get intense. No, I'm just kidding, Tim. Maybe to set the stage for everybody. Would love to just hear how you define the two and maybe we can use that to frame the conversation. We can bounce around.

Yeah, and you know what, that's a really good idea because I think about this kind of stuff a lot as I think you guys do as well. Thanks, Alicia. And I think the word blogging sometimes is. It's not the same as it used to be. So there's a guy that I read, his name is Fred Wilson, he's got a pretty famous blog, it's called avc. It's like a pretty well known venture capitalist guy. He runs a venture firm called Union Square. And 15, 20 years ago, the thing to do was to have a blog and it was like wake up every day and kind of write about your thoughts and write about what it is that you're interested in and maybe new things that you're learning. And so like traditionally when people think of the word blogging, I think that they still think it means waking up every day doing like 300, 400 words, maybe, maybe a post every two or three days or so. And that's great. And if that's what you want to do, then do it. I think that's really cool for creative writers. I don't think though that that mechanism of creating content online is conducive to like building an audience that is going to be willing to purchase services or products from you. So I've really been thinking about this a lot over the course of the last seven months. If I've as I've been like witnessing this kind of transformation with what you guys are doing and with even how like Google is interacting with content. Because so much of what Google does now is display like the answer to search queries, like directly on Google as opposed to like linking through to the content, you know. And so I think that we need to come up with like a new definition that is somewhere in between like blogging and like on site publishing. So I don't have like a perfect Answer for you. But like, what I do and what I advocate for, I don't think is what blogging used to be like 10 years ago and what people think blogging is. So that's kind of my long winded various meandering answer to the question. Cause I'm really thinking about it and like, truth is, I don't totally know.

And maybe, maybe give just some context for everyone here. I mean, how does writing play into your ecosystem? Quick nutshell, what are your businesses and kind of what's the benefit of writing to you?

Yeah, well man, that's the question, right? I'm an entrepreneur and I'm just getting comfortable saying that because it just feels weird. And, and I'm thinking to myself, like, well, I've built like seven of these brands by now. Like, I guess that means I'm an entrepreneur. But if somebody asked me like what if what I am, I say I'm a writer. Because everything that I've done and everything that I built really stems from just the blank page, you know? Like, I think I got like a really beautiful relationship with that. So it all started for me. My, my, my journey is like pretty well known, but I think a little bit unique. I got sober 12 years ago and I started a blog called Sober Nation, which is just a giant resource center for people that are also strug struggling with addiction and recovery and whatever. And it's interesting because this was when Facebook was totally different than it is now. I had a Facebook page with 20,000 people on it and I would post an article and I would just watch the live analytics as the article would explode and go viral and you just can't do that anymore. And so I still think of blogging with that, telling stories online and those stories would spread by nature of something that was published on an actual domain. And so like it transitioned a little bit because I think what's important now, okay, so Sober Nation was my first brand. Excuse me. And then through that I saw an opportunity to create an agency really specific within like the behavioral healthcare space. And I've grown that business pretty significantly over the last 10 years. And what writing has done is writing has allowed me to align intent with action. And so the reason why I love writing on websites so much and why like I'm looking for a new term with blogging is that if somebody searches for something on Google, the only reason that they ever do that is because they need to solve a problem. Like, like it's the only reason anybody ever goes to Google ever. They just have a problem. They need to solve it. And so if you can create content that aligns the solution to the problem with like your business or your product, the conversion rate on the people reading your stuff is just so high because like you already know what it is they're looking for. Like they are quite literally telling you that they need what it is that you're selling just by nature of the query that they searched. And so it's like that alignment that I've built all of my companies around just thinking, what is the problem that these people need to solve and what would they be searching for in order to solve that problem? And then how can I get that attention and put a product or a service that solves that problem for them directly in front of them? And it's just worked out really well for me.

So where I want to go with that is how that's changing. Right? So you said, you know Facebook, you were able to just drop a blog. Now it was intent versus action. And where my head goes is, okay, intent versus action. Someone is searching for how do I solve X problem 1 on Google, it's probably a winner take all market where whoever is sitting at that number one spot is probably taking 80 to 90%. It's likely a power law versus someone who is potentially social blogging, digital writing, writing on these social platforms, almost building a relationship with people and then solving the audience's specific problems. So it's less search intent, but it's more, hey, you're following me because you have this set of problems and then I'm going to solve each of them specifically. So how do you think about that difference and maybe are we headed in one direction or the other?

I don't know if we're heading in one direction or another. Google, as big brother as they are, is really honest and I mean that. They tell you exactly what it is that they're up to. And there's not a whole lot of surprise algorithm changes with them. They'll even tell you the date that they're going to make some changes and what these changes are going to do. So it's been, I mean it could be volatile, but it's been relatively predictable. Much more predictable than social media, I think what I think is important. So you're right, there's definitely some Pareto principle laws there where there's some winner. I'd say winner take most is probably a good way to think about it. But the best thing about it is that there's no shortage of things that people search. And so there's always A low hanging fruit that will allow you to work your way into a market. Right? So I'll give you an example. We saw an opportunity for test prep. There's a test that people take that's very difficult. It's called the lsat. It's basically the test you have to take to pass the bar. And it's really hard. Probably one of the hardest tests in the world. And so people spend a lot of money preparing for this test because you only get like two shots at it. I think you get two and if you don't pass, then you don't pass the bar. And then you just went to like law school for eight years for nothing, right? And so we were messing around with search terms and I was like, damn, I think there's like an opportunity here. And so instead of just building a website and going right for like, what, how do I pass the LSAT? We wrote 15 to 20 to 30 articles on what we call long tail, like longer search queries that have intent but aren't so directly aligned with like the, the big power move, right? Because someone's always going to own that really difficult search word. Like someone's always going to own best LSAT prep test. You know, that's probably the best example there. And so can you give an example.

Of like what one of those long tail keywords would be?

Yeah, sure. I mean the, well, the website is lsatclarity.com. so like reviews maybe we went, we researched like 10 of the test prep courses and then we just wrote reviews on them. You know, that's like long tail, that's much more low hanging fruit. And those are battles that like you can win. And then slowly, like you get a little bit of momentum. And then Google says like, okay, these guys know what they're doing, these guys know what they're doing. And then yeah, it gets to a point where it's like all of a sudden you're one of the people that is sharing in the most of the pie. And then the reason why I really advocate for it so much and I think this is where Cole and I always kind of trade blows with each other, is that once you do the hard work on this, then time really works for you. I haven't published anything on that website for a while. Whereas like I'm trying to get on your guys's level with Twitter. You know, I got like 11,000 followers. I'm looking up to you guys. In order to do it shit, like I gotta come up with like four or five ideas a day and like I think that's kind of exhausting, you know, and so the reason why I like publishing on a website is that you gotta have the stomach for it. Like, you publish things without there being like an instant reward. You know, you don't get that dopamine feedback, but like, if you stick with it, you get to the point where then all of a sudden time is like working for you as opposed to you having to constantly, like, feed the beast.

Yeah, I feel like the distinction here that I want to double click on is like, Tim, it's not like you're waking up in the morning going, I came up with this idea and I think it's interesting. And you go write that on your site, you're taking the opposite approach where you're starting with the what is the problem? What is the question someone's asking? And then you're just reverse engineering and going, I'm gonna go create that.

Right, that's exactly right. And I think to your point, Cole, that is that, like, never ending trap that writers fall into, because somewhere along the line we came up with like this artists complex where it's like, if I just keep writing and keep telling stories, somehow some way someone's going to find my writing and they're just going to like me and then like, you know, that'll be great. Um, that's never happened for me, not once ever. And I think the, the distinction, like you said, is it's very reverse engineered. Like, you start at the end, you start at the objective, and then you formulate your content around the solution to what your, your customers or clients would be. And so, yeah, like, I don't get like, like I said before, if you enjoy it and you just want to start a blog and like write shit every day and it feels good for you, then totally do that, you know, Like, I'm not saying that you should behave in one way or the other. What I'm saying is like, if you want to make money, then you have to really, really think about how you're going to do it. Because eventually you'll just, you'll get exhausted. Because, like, blogging into the void is exhausting.

I think there's a distinction here with like LSAT clarity, I don't think is going to start a Twitter account and go and find people to sell LSAT review courses for. There's a distinction where I think the individual creator who potentially wants to monetize their ability to write and solve problems as an individual. I don't think the SEO route necessarily lines up as much as, hey, I'm going to go provide valuable content in a feed where I'm going to attract that group of people. And I think it's not necessarily one or the other, but it's, which game are you trying to play? Right? If I don't think you sat down and were like, for the rest of my life, I want to be the LSAT guy and I want to write nothing about lsat and I'm going to build my whole content strategy around it. But it's more, hey, I think there's this untapped piece of digital real estate, and that's how I think of SEO. I think of SEO is digital real estate, meaning there's certain answers and questions that once you ask, you kind of own that piece of the Internet and all that traffic and reward is going to come to you versus social blogging and writing on Twitter and LinkedIn and things like that. It's, you don't own your renting, but that doesn't mean that you can't still kind of monetize in that way.

Yeah, I think you're totally right. I also think that for me personally, there's an advantage to. There's like a law of big numbers when it comes to the social blogging. There gets to a point where it's like, the bigger you get, the bigger you get, right? Because SEO is not going to compound on itself the same way that like Twitter or LinkedIn or probably even still Facebook can do, because the more people follow you, then the more shares you get, and then the more people follow you. So there's like a real snowball effect there. But I do think that with search in particular, there's a. How do I say this? Like, you can jump in real leaps and bounds for particular industries that, that you're right, Dicky. Like, wouldn't necessarily be applicable, you know. So, for instance, if I'm a local plumber and I focus four years of my life on ranking for local plumbing keywords, like, my life is totally changed. If I were a local plumber, I'm telling you right now, I would instantly do at least like, 2 or 3 million bucks a year. Because once you. If somebody searches for plumbing in Nashville and you win, like, then you just win, you know, and so if you're in the top three, then. Then you get all of it. And. And there's actually not a whole lot of, like, sophisticated business owners that understand how Google works. And so I wish I could educate smaller brands that just. You don't need to be like HubSpot you know, let's say you're a writer. Let's say you're a freelance writer and like, you live in Nashville. Another good example. If you can own freelance writer in Nashville, if you could own freelance writer that specializes in, I don't know, test prep, to use that same example, you could instantly change your life just because there's nobody swimming in that pond. But there's still, there's still plenty to, plenty of money to be made in those search queries.

Tim, it sounds like this. I mean, you should create a product around that. I totally agree. Like, the number of small businesses that don't understand how Google works is a lot. And I think, and I see it in so many verticals. Like, everyone jumps to the extreme and they're like, I'm either HubSpot or I'm nothing.

Yeah.

Oh, and the reality is there's a giant chasm between the two.

Yeah. And like, when you see those people, it's intimidating. Like, HubSpot, it's probably my favorite website ever. And it's not even necessarily because I read it, it's just because of, like, it's fascinating. Yeah, it's just so beautiful. Like, I grew up as a contractor and this sounds a little bit silly. I think this is why I like SEO so much. Like, I was always a writer, but I was like a, like a blue collar kid from Philly. Right. Like, I built houses for all of my upbringing. And when you see websites in terms of like, the structure of them and you just learn about the structure of code and links and pages and how like, it's all placed together almost like rooms, you know, like in different rooms of the website, different sections have like, different feels. And you know, like, if I'm, if this room behind me is telling Google, like, what is this room about? Like, oh, this is like the nerd room. And then what's like the kitchen about? And so like, you can actually structure your website in a way that says, like, hey, Google, this part of my website is about like, this and HubSpot. It's like, it's so beautifully done how they did it. So I don't know why I went down that little rabbit hole. But yeah, I'm a HubSpot fanboy for sure.

It's fascinating. I mean, I totally agree. It is like your website is like building a house. And I think the takeaway for everyone here, I mean, and this will segue into another question I have, but, like, you know, you said, okay, you've built multiple successful businesses, taking the SEO Writing on a website approach and not really as much via social. And we've done the complete opposite. We have like, no real SEO driving, you know, a ton of our business. It's all been on social. And both work, you know, like both. Clearly you can build something out of. So I guess I'm curious if you've really found and mastered this lane, what is your desire to want to start doing more on social? Is it like a diversification thing or what's. How are you thinking about that?

Well, I'm 36, I got a 16 month old, and we're gonna have a second one in September. I'm done after that. Yeah. By the way, I actually found out when I was in Miami and it was not expected to stay, you know, like one was totally fine. But I guess I'm a family man now and like, this will sound a little bit pretentious, I really, really don't mean it to, but I've spent a lot of years really like automating and organizing the structure and the processes of what I got going on. And I'm kind of at this spot now where it's like I wake up in the morning and I do my morning writing and I go to the gym and I come home and I check out my task management system and it's like, okay, everybody's doing what they got to do for the day. And I don't know, I just have like an itch. Like I'm an anxious, nervous person that always kind of likes to be like tinkering around with stuff. And so I'm going for it. Like, I've been working really hard on my Twitter, on my LinkedIn, I went, I had my first like real, real viral tweet, which got me a couple thousand emails. And like, that was exciting, you know, So I see why you guys catch the bug where, like, you're steady chasing that dragon. You know, I hired somebody to do a bunch of like real quick one minute Instagram videos and he's gonna do all that stuff for me and, and we'll see what happens. Like, I don't, I don't necessarily know where I'm going with it. I'm really, really grateful and like happy and just feeling satisfied with where I am. But I know there's more out there that I want to explore and you guys inspire me. Really. I'm not saying that's just because I'm on here. It's cool to see this new avenue of people being able to share ideas and share contacts. And not only that, but share the specific things that they can do in only the way that they can. There's nobody in the world that can market local healthcare and behavioral healthcare websites like I can. There's just nobody out there. And so I think it's cool that I have this real specific thing that I can bring into other ways I can apply these lessons to local businesses like we just talked about. So I don't know. I don't know where it's going, but I'm having fun.

Well, let's talk. Let's talk some tactic strategy. What have you found that's working? What's your current game plan? So your weekly Twitter, what are you trying to drive kind of traffic to your Instagram or TikTok? Let's workshop this a little bit.

Well, everything is email addresses. It's the first thing I say when even I hire a contractor. Like, this is really great. Cool. These views are great. I really don't care. I don't necessarily want to be insta famous. I just want email addresses. And that's always, that's always the objective for me. I, I've. I mean, I'm a writer and I love copy, and it's just the coolest thing in the world when you see how copy works and how like, we think that we're influenced by certain things, but really we're influenced by words and we always will be. And so if, if you can put copy together in a certain way, you can just always be successful. So. So, okay, where am I going with that? I've learned through tweets and through Twitter threads that, like, that first tweet is basically your copy is your headline. If you don't get them, then you never got them. That's been a lot of fun, like some gimmicky stuff, which is kind of embarrassing. And then you try to find, like, more creative ways to do it and you realize that like, humans are just humans. And so, like, if you put the reward, you know, like if you put the reward in the tweet, you'll get the click on the thread volume. Definitely. Hype Fury in particular is probably one of the coolest products I've ever used. I'm a very habitual person. And so I wake up in the morning and I do my morning routine on roam that I have, and then I write all of my tweets and then I kind of forget about it. You know, what else have I learned? Virality is definitely a real thing. Like there's still some Pareto principle things going on. You could tweet for weeks and weeks, and then all of a sudden, for whatever reason, something just pops off and you don't even necessarily know why. But I guess once you do it long enough, you stop trying to figure it out. And you know that, like, who cares? You just keep putting stuff out there because the law of averages will make it that one day, one thing will go viral.

That's.

It's like. I also have to remind myself that it's okay to repeat yourself, you know, because I forget that most people don't think of these things as, like, just common. Like, I do because I've just been typing words on the Internet for so long. But, like, the same principles that have always applied really, really still apply. And it's just a matter of, like, repetition, repetition, consistency, and then poof, you.

Know, I think those principles are almost magnified. The importance of copy is far greater on Twitter, I think, than on Google and SEO, because you're competing in a sea of like. Something I say all the time is, if you want to improve your writing, write 10 tweets a day for six months, because you're going to learn how to capture attention, keep attention, and deliver value to attention very quickly. What I also like, Tim, is you step into this game as someone who has a lot of experience in another domain without an ego. Because I think a lot of people come into Twitter and they're like, oh, the. Like, oh, you got to do this. And I don't want to write a clickbait headline, or I don't want to, you know, Twitter threads or whatever it is. And I think so many writers aren't getting the full benefits of Twitter because they come in with this ego. Like, I shouldn't have to do that, right? And instead, I like that you make the flip of if you're writing something high quality or you have a product that is going to genuinely help people, it's your moral responsibility to do everything you can to drive attention to it. So why wouldn't you use what is right now by far the most viral distribution engine out there, which is Twitter, Twitter threads, writing tweets and all that. So I like that you're going down that route without thinking you're too good for it, for lack of a better word.

Thank you. That's legitimately very meaningful to me because everybody has life experiences and I'm not special. But I make it a point to always remember that this is all like a gift and it can just be taken away at any second, you know? And so, on that note, I've trained myself, like, really intentionally to continuously do things that just scare me. Like, I started posting videos of my Muay Thai training. Like, that's another one about a year and a half ago. I had back surgery a couple of years ago, and it really affected, like, my fitness. Like, I can't do. Can't do squats. I can't do deadlifts anymore. And these were, like, my favorite things in the world to do. And so I needed something to, like, really suck at. So I started doing kickboxing, and I was a disaster. Like, I walked into there thinking that, like, I would be good at this. I'm an athlete, no problem. And, like, I was so terrible at it. It was awful. But I think I'm just fortunate in that I have. I had good parents, I think, like, really I just had, like, blue collar, hardworking parents that just said, show up, do your work for the day, and then move on. You know, I don't win. I don't celebrate too much with the wins, and I don't get too beat up about the things that don't work. Um, but yeah, like, I wish I had some kind of cool, inspirational advice for that. I don't think it's that complicated, really. I guess the advice is that everybody feels stupid, you know, I think that we have this terrible notion that, like, some people really know what they're doing, right? And I think maybe some people have a little bit more experience than others at certain things, but that's just life. Like, everyone's got more experience than somebody at something, you know? And so I don't want to compare myself to people who have been doing it for a while because I've been doing it longer than somebody else has. You know what I mean? I just, I. I'm just fortunate in that regard that I'm. I've always been willing to, like, look stupid in front of other people because I don't think you can get anywhere in life unless you're willing to do that.

That's two big realizations I've had is getting to meet a bunch of people I look up to, realizing they're making it all up as they go. And then on the flip side is the fear of looking stupid is 100% ego driven, because you're assuming everyone's looking at you, thinking about what you're doing, and the truth is, they are not. You pair those two things together and it's a powerful combination for personal growth, right?

Not.

You're not afraid to look stupid, and you realize that everyone you look up to. It's kind of just winging it as well. So why not you?

I completely agree. And a cool lesson that was taught to me by one of my mentors years ago was like, the definition of self centeredness is that self centeredness doesn't mean that like you're being selfish. Self centeredness means that you walk into a room and people are laughing and you think that they're laughing at you when nobody actually cares about you. So write your tweet, feel stupid, trip on the sidewalk and somebody will help you up. And then they're just going to get on with their day. They're not actually thinking about that idiot that tripped on the sidewalk. Because I was a skater, I fell on pavement thousands of times. So I know what it's like to fall on my face in front of people.

I have a little follow up question here. Vj I saw throw in the chat, but so Tim, now, now that you're, you've embraced the. I'm a beginner, you know, we all start somewhere. You're writing on Twitter. It's a very different type of thing because when you're writing SEO, you're starting with the question, you're starting with the intent, and then you kind of know how to work backwards, you know. So when you sit down to write on Twitter, I guess A, does is any part of you, this is a question we get pretty often, actually. Is any part of you trying to write in social through a ranking lens? And B, like if you're not starting with a specific search intent or a question, what are you starting with? How are you thinking about creating?

Yeah, great question. And I have a helpful answer. This. So this actually came from being in recovery, truthfully. And there's something about, there's like a notion about recovery where you like help others. And the idea is that you have experience to share because that's like anything in life, right? Like you relate to the people that have been through the thing that you are going through. And so like when I didn't necessarily think about this, it actually dawned on me on the rowing machine like eight or nine months ago when I was thinking about this.

I was going to.

Say we're all good insights happen on the earth.

Everything good comes from my, my Sunday 10,000, I call it 10,000 meters. I do every Sunday. And it just dawned on me, I was like, oh my God, like all I have to do is share my experience. And so I, when I try to give advice, it doesn't work out because I don't have any Advice to give. Like, I actually don't know what you should do. I have no idea what any of you should do. All I have is, like, my experience to share. And so what has worked for me. And like I said, I don't know what'll work for you because I don't know anything about what you guys have been through. But, like, what has worked for me is share my experience. Because what happens there is like, there's actually no way to, like, rebuttal that. And there's no, like, argument. There's no, like, oh, well, I don't think that's the case. It's like, oh, okay, well, that's just my experience. And like, there's nothing. There's no debate there. This is just like what I experienced in my journey as an entrepreneur. So that has been very, very helpful for me. And, you know, like I said, it just, I got lucky. Like, it just popped in my head in the rowing machine. As like you said, it's like the only time my mind is quiet for the week.

Yeah. And I think kind of bringing it full circle. That's why that's. That's ultimately where our perspective on. Start by writing in a social environment versus a blog. Because I find that the vast majority of people who say I want to write are really saying, I want to share my experience, you know, and so it's like, if you're coming at it through that lens and you're like, I want to wake up in the morning and I want to share something that I've learned. I want to share a lesson I want. I almost think of it as more of like a, for me, out to the world sort of thing. Then it makes sense to share in an environment where, like, that, it's kind of built for that. You know, Twitter's built for that, whereas the blogging SEO, writing on a site is almost the complete opposite. It's like, disregard yourself, disregard your own experience. Like, what is the search intent? What is the problem that you want to speak to?

You're absolutely right. And I think it's important not to be shy or beat around the bush about this. If I write something on a website, it is for the sole purpose of trying to make money. That's the only reason why I'm doing it. I'm trying to sell something. Doesn't necessarily mean that it'll be a direct sale. So, for example, a lot of what I do is lead generation. If you give me an industry, I can figure out how to build a website that'll make people want to call. And I've built, like, networks with call centers and moving and stem cells and stuff like that. Who. They just take all the calls and then broker deals to different people that can provide that. And so in that particular case, it makes a lot of sense to publish stuff on a website, because, like you said, Cole, those are problems that people are trying to solve. And so there's no reason for me to write an article about, like, my experience with my back surgery, for instance. Like, that wouldn't necessarily work. It would work to say, you know, how stem cell injections helped me with a spinal fusion, because somebody is searching for that. And so, like, there's a different context, which I definitely think you're absolutely right. We need to be mindful of. But, like, it doesn't necessarily stop there because it's rare that. Well, it's about 20%, really. But if somebody searches for that, like, they might call right away from one search query. But there's also a possibility that they'll download an ebook that they'll download, maybe a video series about, like, how this product or service affected them. Like, so there's more creative stuff involved with just search and search and destroy than you would originally think, like, especially on the conversion side. But I guess what I'm saying is that you're totally right, Cole. There's no experience to share outside of the objective of the call. If you're going to bother writing the content, then you want to get a conversion from it, or else, what the hell are you doing? So I always approach it almost, like, ruthlessly methodical in that way. Yeah.

And I feel like that difference is really, to me, that's the education point. You know, if someone's like, day one, where do I start writing? It all begins with that question, you know, like, which game do you want to play? And the answer to that question dictates very different roads. And then I think ultimately, you know, both diverge from the beginning, and then they end up in the same place, which is, hey, like, if you go the I want to write and share my experiences on Twitter, eventually you get to the point where you're like, how do I turn this into a business? You know, and so then you end up on, well, maybe I should have my own site. And then all of a sudden, they kind of work and work together at the very end of the. Of the path.

I agree. That's how it's happened for me for. For my side as well. Like, because I'm a stubborn mule, I force myself to still Write at least 1200 words every Friday on my blog so that, like, I can continue to prove to myself that what basically that I'm good, you know, because sometimes you get, you get separated from like the actual art of it because I'm answering client emails or dealing with like some explosion in an office somewhere, who knows, you know? And so it's just a commitment I made to myself to make sure that I keep my skills sharp. And it all came full circle for me as well. You know, there was over the last four years, probably like a. There's a long period of time where I didn't do what you said. Like, everything I did was just business, business, business. Like, I basically created like a publishing company that intersects with like a bunch of different industries, but it's very formulaic. We built a process that can just search and destroy. Like I said, like, it's kind of a motto in my company. But now here I am, full circle. Like, how do I share my experience once again? And now I'm on here with you guys.

So that 1200 word blog post that you published last week, what was that? And do you think about that as driving some kind of sale in some way? Are you using that as a basis for Twitter content? Like, what is your, how are your pieces working together now that you're kind of playing in both these games?

It all comes from my blog post. So, like, you guys know how it is. I say I'm going to write 1200 words and then it's like 3300 words because it's just impossible.

Yeah, it's easier to write 3300 than 1200.

It is, yeah. Most of the time is spent deleting stuff, but here's how it works. I wake up Monday, I do research. I try my best to think about what I'm going to write about. I start writing on Thursday because for some reason, if I don't have a harsh deadline and some giant weight on my shoulders, then I just can't write it. And so I wait to the last minute, probably on purpose. I write my article, my article goes in my newsletter. So my newsletter is basically just the 10 coolest things that I found about passive income. Really. I like the idea of like, systems and processes that you can build and then put operators in and then step away. So like, every business you build kind of turns into another income stream and that's what I'm going for. But like, the shit that I write on my site is always keyword targeted. It's not as SEO as, like some of the other things. But it is like I know what I'm trying to do. There's an intent behind it, there's that word again, right? And then my articles, my Twitter, my LinkedIn, soon to be my Instagram, my YouTube as well, it all goes to my website to collect emails and then my emails goes into an autoresponder connected to a deadline funnel to sell my new product. I launched my first personal product, very similar to you guys and I sold 73 issues so far and I just launched it last week and so it's pretty cool. But this is the part that I really love because the automations and stuff sells itself. I know how to do that, I know how to create the funnels, I know how to write the copy so that people understand what the value is and they understand that it's a good product because I'm putting my name on it. So it's going to be good. And then once all of that is built, now I just get to step back and write 3,000 word articles that if I do it every Friday over the course of the next two or three years, you know, two or three years from now I'm going to look back at this thing and it's just going to be driving traffic that like I don't have to continuously work for anymore. And so then like my, my week of tweets comes from that blog post. Like everything comes from the blog post. All my videos come from the blog post. Even just today I implemented like okay, I'm going to do one like long form YouTube video just like basically reading my blog posts and more like conversational tone and then I can optimize the keywords through YouTube as well. And then you know, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. It's just, it's. I love that process is what I really love to do.

What was the recent blog post most?

It was the five personality traits of, of successful people. I went down a rabbit hole of conscientiousness.

Talk me through the search intent behind that and where that might lead. So how is someone going to find that post? What are you targeting?

Yeah, well they're going to search for traits of personality traits. Yeah, personality traits of successful people. That's exactly what it is. There's a little bit less than 80 search queries a month for it. There's only one article ranking and the article that was ranking was basically like a word for word. What's it called? Dictation of a Tai Lopez interview that he did on what's that guy's name with the bars. Tom Billy Eliot. Yeah. And so it was cool. Like I found this keyword, I was like, damn. I thought that there would be more high level psychological content around it, but there really wasn't. I expected Psychology Today beyond there because Psychology Today is another one of those websites like HubSpot that I really admire it. It's just a beautiful, beautiful website. I saw it, I was like, I can't believe this. How is Psychology Today not on there? And the top article was just some dude that basically watched the video and then took everything that Tai Lopez said and put it on a blog post. And so I was like, I can definitely crush this guy. You know, that's why I love it because it's only 80 searches a week. In reality, even if I'm number one, that'll be, I don't know, three email signups a week or something like that. But it's compounding. It doesn't matter how many it is. You know, it's I do this for a year or two and then I don't have to do it anymore.

I just have opted in your sight.

I love it.

Yeah, I think you, you have missing low hanging fruit opportunities. Right after I hit confirm subscription, you can set a custom redirect and convertkit. Instead of sending me to thanks for opting in, just send them to a page on your website again that tells some story. So it's instead of exiting out, then they're gonna go check their email again. You can send them right to something that that first email would be. So there's a little tactical but you're.

Not scared that you'll lose the double opt in from that that they won't.

You can use the double opt in when they click the confirm, instead of it sending them to a random convertkit page, you send them to a page on your website like, hey, I'm Tim, thanks for opting in, blah blah blah.

I'm like going to do that asap.

Yeah, because it's, I think the biggest low hanging fruit for people who have newsletters is when someone opts into newsletter. If you use the double opt in, don't send them to a random page. Tell them a story about yourself because that keeps the whole flow, right? They get the opt in email, they click confirm, you send them back to their website. It's like, hey, here's my story versus hey, here's a convertkit page. Now go check your email again, right? So you try to optimize that flow real, real quick.

This is, I had this question too. And I see a couple people asking in the chat. So, Tim, quick breakdown of. So how are you finding these opportunities? How do you find these terms, tools you use? What's your best practice there?

Well, I use mostly Semrush. Hrefs is better. They have a better backlink index, basically. So Google doesn't just give you the backlink index. Well, they do, but it's on. On search console. And so like, these companies basically have to scan the whole Internet to find out where all the links are. And Ahrefs is a little bit better for that. But really, like, these are expensive tools. And anytime somebody comes with this question, I always tell them, just Google stuff. Like, just freaking Google stuff. Make sure you go on incognito. Like, make sure. So if you're using Chrome, I should say you go incognito because Google will give you different results depending on, like, what your search behavior already is. Just because it kind of figures out. It figures you out and it knows, like, what it is that you're looking for kind of before you do. So go incognito and Google stuff and then like click on the top three. Like, you'll be able to tell pretty quickly. Like, this website looks really, really legit. I probably shouldn't try to go after this keyword. Like, this is just some blogger guy who has a cool blog and like, somehow wrote something that just ended up ranking for something. So yeah, Semrush and Ahrefs are both great tools. I know there's also free keyword tools, which I don't know, but like, truly, truly Google stuff, because that's the best way to do it.

Fascinating. Any other quick questions that you noticed in the chat, Tiki?

No, I don't think so. I think where, where we should leave is. Tim, if you're giving someone who's kind of a beginner looking to build their business with email optimization, their website social, what are you telling them? What's the one thing you've kind of picked up on this playing in both ballparks?

You know, I would, I would say the first thing to do if they want to sharpen their skills is to follow you guys. There's a lot of content on the Internet.

Checks on the way, man. Check is on the way.

Yeah.

Pay you for that after. I forgot I asked you to say that.

Sure, no worries. You can PayPal me. I'll text you. But there's such thing as good writing. There really is such a thing as good writing. And everybody knows when they see good writing because we Just can't help it. We're. We're captivated by it and learn those foundational skills. So I got lucky in that when I was building Sober Nation, I discovered this website called Copy Blogger, which taught me everything. You know, like, the founder was like an idol of mine, and I was really, really, again, fortunate that, like, 10 years into it, I was able to buy the majority share of the website. And it was like, a huge moment in my life because it just, like, it changed my life. Like, I'm. I'm uneducated, you know, Like, I got a hard work ethic, and I like to read. And so I learned how to do all this by reading Coffee Blogger every day. I do think that Copyblogger is more aligned for freelance writers than it is people that are trying to, like, share their ideas. Right. And so the best way to get good at writing is just to write a ton of stuff and just write bad stuff and publish it. Because that's the hardest part is, like, publishing it. Um, just write 10 tweets a day, right? Until you think that nobody's looking, and then keep writing. And, like, there's such a thing as good writing. Like, you have to figure that out first. Um, once they get past that point and they're trying to actually establish, like you said, Dickie, like, some real estate on the Internet, I would start by building what's called Cornerstone pages. And a better example of this is actually my agency. I don't do this on my blog, but you want to come up with, like, the five to ten keywords that really, really define, like, what it is that you offer, you know, so, like, Copy Blogger is probably a little bit easier because we're all a little bit more familiar with it. So on Copy Blogger, it's just said copywriting 101. It's email marketing. It's blogging. You know, it's like the foundation of your website. Write those first, and then everything you write from that point forward kind of circles around the foundation of these pages. And Google will recognize that. They'll recognize, like, oh, okay, I get it. Like, all of the pages that this guy is writing or this girl is writing all link back to these Cornerstone pages. So, like, this cornerstone is basically what, like, you're about.

Pillar. I've heard it, like, pillar, pillar piece.

We kind of do that. Sure. Awesome.

Well, that's good advice to end on, Tim. Where can we. Where can we send people? Where can they find you?

Sign up for your newsletters dot com.

I'm t. I M s t O.

D Z. Yeah, I'm working really hard on it and I'm having, like, a great time. It's been really cool joining in the cool kids club with you guys swimming in the wake. So I appreciate you guys and thank you so much for, for letting me share my story with all you.

Amazing. Thanks. Thanks for dropping knowledge, man. I always, I love our discussions about these two worlds because I think they go hand in hand, you know, not.

One or the other. Not a duel. They're hand in hand. And if you're playing both, you're. You're steps ahead of everyone else for sure.

Thank you. But I'm still right.

Yeah, we'll see. All right, everyone, have a great weekend. Thanks for tuning in. And we'll, we'll see you guys at the next one. Have a good one.

Yeah.