Burnout is Not What You Think: The Truth About Chronic Stress

Hey everyone, I'm excited because I have Janet on the show. I wanted to have her on as we talked about burnout, transitioning from corporate or in a different type of environment to learning a little bit more about how to make that transition. How does that look like living with chronic illness? And I got to meet this wonderful person from this group I'm in, and I thought she would be a great guest for us to talk about this topic from multiple angles. So welcome, welcome, Janet.

Oh, thank you so much. I am so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. Yeah.

So let's hop in. Burnout. What does burnout look like, feel like, or mean for you? Just in general, like let's talk, let's start there. Yes.

Burnout to me is disconnection. That is the best way that I can describe it. Disconnection from my inner wisdom, disconnection from my— the path that I should be on, disconnection from my life purpose. So it's disconnection, complete disconnection.

That's such a— I love that definition because, I mean, obviously there are mental health definitions for what burnout looks like, like from a scientific medical place, But I definitely think all the things you just shared there are aspects of how that shows up in your life. A disconnect from things. It explains to me why if you're burnt out, going on vacation doesn't necessarily always fix the issue because you're still disconnected when you get back from the vacation, right? Like you're still dealing with that, right? So how has this showed up for you? How has this been a part of your story?

Yeah, in many different ways. I gotta say that my path with life as a whole has been full of twists, turns, U-turns, and more than a few speed bumps. I just turned 51 two weeks ago, and you don't look anything like it.

I'm just saying.

Oh, thank you. You're too kind. It's the lighting here.

It's great. It is not the lighting. It This is you. Okay. Let's just—

Thank you. Thank you. So I think that the best way to share my story is by the decades, right? That it shaped me. I would say my 20s, my 30s, definitely my 40s. Each decade has taught me something different about strength, identity, burnout, and purpose. Right. And how that all ties together. So in my twenties, the plan I would, if this was a book, I would name it The Plan and the First Disruption, right? In my twenties, I had a plan. I would work until I had a baby. I would stay home until my child reached kindergarten. Then I would start my own business, something that I had been dreaming to do. Since I was young. Shortly after graduating from college, I landed my first corporate job. Around the same time, I got married and was diagnosed with lupus. Now, the plan depended on one key assumption: that my husband would be the main breadwinner. That would allow me to follow the carefully crafted life plan that I had con— conceived in my head when I was young, right? Now, what I didn't anticipate was that my husband, he's an amazing human being, but he wasn't yet clear on what he wanted to do with his life. So by the time I turned 30, I had become the primary breadwinner. I had supported my husband's decision to buy into a food franchise. Even though it paid him roughly what he would have earned in an entry-level job. Around the same time, my health continued to decline. The autoimmune condition just progressed to the point where only biologic injections and steroids could control the inflammation and pain. My mornings were unbearable, my hands so swollen that I struggled to hold a toothbrush or grip the steering wheel. I mean, I had to become so creative in the way that I would hold things just because my hands would just not be able to close. But as a true Capricorn, I would say that, you know, I continue to push forward. I continue to climb the corporate ladder. I earned my MBA, even you know, while living with this relentless pain that my body was experiencing. So that was my 20s. In my 30s, right, I would say that this was the decade of motherhood, loss, and survival mode. At 30, I gave birth to my first daughter, Arabella. What would have been a time of joy became really one of the hardest periods of my life. I experienced one of the worst autoimmune flares I've had, and I ended up returning to work when my baby was just 3 months old. And that was, to me, the beginning of experience with depression, with disappointment, and also emotional disconnection. That was the very first time that I really was aware that this— of the disconnection. So here I was, the main breadwinner. I carried the medical insurance, everyone depending on me continuing to work. And around this time, I was given a different diagnosis. I was diagnosed with severe rheumatoid arthritis.

Mm.

At 33, I gave birth to my second daughter, Clarissa. But 8 months into the pregnancy, I was laid off. Initially, that loss of identity as a professional really devastated me. But after Clarissa was born, something started to shift, right? I am a positive person through and through. So I've always tried to look for the silver lining in things. And the silver lining here was that for the first time in a long time, I saw an opening, right? I'm like, this is my chance to stay home with my girls and just fulfill that part of me that wanted so much to do that. In the meantime, my husband had sold the business and we were only to recoup only the initial investment that we had done. And then he took on a job as a sales rep. At a food wholesaler. The detail here is that his income, instead of going up, it just started to decline month after month, year over year. And we survived with depleting, by depleting our savings and liquidating my E-Trade account. Don't get me wrong, I was grateful to be home with my daughters, but the financial stress became constant and my autoimmune condition just flared. Nonstop. When Clarissa was 2, I restarted my job search, and by the time she was 3, I landed a role, one that required a move to Austin, Texas, and the job offer paid 3 times what my husband was earning, so the choice was clear. At least that's how we thought of it at that time. So we packed up our home, said goodbye to our family and started over. Now, my 40s. I would say that my 40s has been about breaking down, awakening, and then reinvention. So my new job in Austin was very intense and high pressure. My manager was neither supportive nor kind. And as the stress mounted, my health worsened, right? And this is where I started really noticing the pattern that my conditions had with the amount of stress that I was carrying on my shoulders. So my rheumatoid arthritis progressed further. I began chemotherapy to suppress my immune system enough so that I could function. I would go to my monthly infusions and then after, after, right after that, I would go back to work. And this was the time where we had to go into the office. I mean, remote work was not a thing. So I had to be in the office 5 days a week. And I was also diagnosed with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism. At work, I wore a mask, an armor. Nobody knew what was going on with me. Nobody knew what I was enduring physically or emotionally, and I basically survived by turning inward. I became obsessed with healing. I devoured books on self-help, self-care, alternative modalities. I studied how the mind, body, and spirit intersect and how healing required addressing all three, not just one. And after a while, well, after many years, I ended up changing jobs, this time to a company with a healthy culture.. And for the first time in my career, I felt like I could speak openly about my health. I took a leave of absence, medical leave of absence. Sorry, my accent.

No, there's no sorry for accents here. We love them. We talk about them. We embrace them. That's it.

Thank you. Thank you. And During that time, everything changed. I travel, I slow down, I reconnected with my core essence and my purpose, and I realized that my truth, which was I love coaching people, I love intentional travel, and I love helping others reconnect with their own inner wisdom. One conversation with my sister Yvette sparked everything. We began dreaming about creating transformational retreats and spaces where people could heal, reflect, and reconnect in beautiful settings. And that's how Soulcraft Journeys was born. It was our dream to, to create something that was born out of our shared passion for living with intention and helping others Do the same. So just looking back at my story, it's not really about— and my path is not really about illness or struggle. It's really about adaptation, about resilience, and really coming home to myself. So every detour taught me something. Every breakdown carried the seed of reconnection with my true essence. And, you know, they say that hindsight is 20/20 and it's true, completely true, because every decade brought me closer to the work that I was always meant to do, which is what Soulcraft Journeys is allowing me to do.

Yeah.

And sometimes, you know, the road that you didn't plan for becomes, you know, the one that leads you exactly where you're meant to be.

So I mean, there's so much in there. I think as we've— I had to chuckle in my head when I heard you say, well, the plan was— this is how my book of the— my plan is. And I joke with my friends, and I say this too with clients, like, I think we all, especially if you're an eldest daughter, Type A, very focused, very driven, very if you are, you know, children of a byproduct of immigrants who came here, like we all have a very like focused process for our plan of how we think we are going to be. And then when something comes into the wrench of that plan, and this is where my question is going to be for you, is when we look at our plan and we're like, oh wait, the plan has been shifted because life has thrown something completely unbeknownst to me. Did you find that when you started dealing with like some of the health challenges and when hubby's— the idea of what hubby looked like in a marriage, all of that shifted? Did your plan shift or was it in your head like, no, I'm still going to make this plan work? Because that's what I plan.

Yeah, no, it definitely shifted. It shifted into survival mode, into what is it that I need to do at this moment, the next month, the next year, so that I could survive and provide for my family. Yeah, because that became the biggest challenge for me. It was my whole family, we're 4, my whole family depends on me. The health insurance is under my name, you know, it's like everything, right? So it had to shift, which is, you know, when I look back in my early 30s and I say that that was when I started realizing, you know, the disconnection It was because I was aware that how that felt, the disconnection from what I really— because I knew early on in— my parents will tell you all I wanted to do was to have my own business when I was a child. And I would be selling stuff. And I would actually— my sister Yvette, she was my first employee.

I love it.

This is a funny story because, and I'm hopeful you get to meet Yvette because she is a character, and at some point. So at this point, I had in high school, I had my mom was a seamstress and I had her create scrunchies. Because this was the '90s, so, you know, everybody had scrunchies. But I had her create or sew for me humongous scrunchies, and nobody could find, at least in Puerto Rico, humongous scrunchies. So I started selling humongous scrunchies of all different colors. So I would tell my mom just to whatever scraps of fabric was left from her sewing, just make me scrunchies. So, you know, the investment was on my part zero. I mean, it was all profit.

Yes, it was all profit.

It was all a profit. And then I started selling. So I left the scrunchie business behind, and then I started selling candy. And then that's when I hired my sister. I said, okay, you know, I can sell, but you can also sell as well. So then I created this whole accounting method of, you know, counting every single piece of candy that we would take in the morning to school, and then every afternoon my hobby was, you know, counting back all the candy that was not sold that day and all the candy that was. So every single day there was a discrepancy with the amount of candy and money that my sister would bring back because she would eat the candy. So it was this thing where she would not confess to the fact that she was eating the candy, but the candy was missing and there was no money.

Oh, that was—

So anyway, it was fantastic. We, that lasted for a while. We were able to buy our first pair of inline skates and which had just come out and we were able to buy each other a pair and anyway, but She still chuckles from the stories of, you know, there was no candy and no money because she ate all the candy.

It's so interesting how our little versions of us come back full circle every single time. I have really appreciated that about doing these conversations with people like women, just hearing how some essence of them flips away, goes back in the back, right? And then it went— and I don't say every woman experienced this, but I think every woman who starts to become more aware of their inner voice, their actual desires, their actual, like, strengths, that those things come back into place. And I definitely think when you live with chronic illness and when you are in fight or flight, when you are in survival mode, those things kind of are the first things that go to the background because we don't technically think we have capacity for them and they're not like giving us what we need. But in your journey as of now, have you seen how those little versions of you back then are— they were still there in this survival mode, they are still— they still gave you skill sets of what you had to have in that season of survival mode. But how are you more intentionally tapping into that as you've grown to where you are, as you launch this business with your sister? What does that look like now?

Well, you know, one of the biggest lessons that I've learned is that— or that I've had to come to terms with— is The fact that I'm not late.

Oh, I love it. Say it again. The fact that you're not late.

Late. Yes, correct. Because, you know, here I am, I'm 51 years old, and— but the very first— not the first time in my life because I did it when I was young, but consciously as an adult, I'm giving myself permission to say, let's go do this, let's go follow where your real life purpose path is, right? And that has took time, that took a lot of talks with my inner self, that talk— that took a lot of getting rid of fear, because it's super easy to say, you know, but am I too late, right? I am not in my 20s, I am not in my 30s, I am, you know, now into my 50s. Am I late? So my— one of the things is that I am not late. I am exactly at the right moment where I needed, where I need to be. And that's why I mentioned before that to me, every single detour, every single lesson, every single door that got closed, it was those signals for me to really get to this point. And now I can say that a lot of the fear fears that I had regarding my ability to really say, is this something that it's feasible to do? Because it combines everything that I love to do, which is helping people, assisting people with things that I have done for years that I've never, you know, really thought about even being valuable because that's just me, you know, like sharing what I've learned along the way. And how can I do this? How can I do this at a bigger scale? How can my impact be bigger? So it has taken a long time to get to where I am, but again, it's trusting the divine timing that I'm not late.

I mean, just that— I mean, how does that, that awareness and I think framing and perspective shift how you move with that knowing of like, I'm not late, I'm just doing what I need to, like what I need to do, what I want to do now. Like I think so many of us constantly, and I think this is a constant thing that leads to burnout, is because I personally think we all think we are late. We all think we are not doing enough. We all think we're behind.

We all—

so we start adding adding all of these things to our plate. We start trying to do everything that we need to do, whatever that might look like, and all while managing a lot of things that require time. And we are constantly feeling like we are late, we are behind. So how are you, or what have been some things that you have used to refrain, like, reframe that narrative? Because I don't think for me personally, it's something like I actively think that I'm saying, oh, I'm late. My actions tell me that I feel like that. If I look at when I feel most overwhelmed, I'm— when I feel most overwhelmed, it's the feeling like I'm late and I'm behind. And that's honestly the feeling. And so when you acknowledge that and you see that, what have you found are some practices or framing that helps you to be like, nope, I'm just where I'm at and where I should be, and move from there?

Yeah, well, I would say things that keep me grounded. So things like, you know, and we know a lot of this, it's mindfulness activities, right? Breathwork, anything that brings me back to this moment, things like that. Journaling, affirmations, things of that nature. But I would say that the biggest thing for me has been really making a conscious decision to tap into my inner self, my inner voice, and my inner wisdom. And that is not a one-time thing, that is a practice. So how do I do that? Well, I look for moments where I'm able to do that. For example, intentional travel, right? Anything that takes me personally away from my daily activities, things that I just do in, you know, in a mode of living, doing things.

Yeah, exactly.

Leaving day-to-day in autopilot, anything, every time that I am away from this environment, it's an opportunity for me to ground myself and really start connecting and tapping into my inner self. Because your inner wisdom is what's going to allow you to release the fear, release the 'I am late,' release some of the burnout that it's not only experienced in the corporate world or managing your business or in your personal life. It really comes down to that. So I would suggest looking for opportunities to ground yourself so that you can listen to your inner wisdom. I mentioned intentional travel, that's one. That it's useful to me. The other one, it's the mindfulness activities that I do, right? I am a huge fan of sylvotherapy, which is nature healing, which is, you know, go out there, go to the park, just walk around, go to the, you know, if there's a lake, if there's a creek, whatever. There's a huge tree that is just so beautiful and it's calling to you, go hug it. Yeah, go hug the tree.

Go hug that tree.

You would see me hugging trees that just, they just, they call to me and I would just go and I would just embrace a tree. I would just thank the tree for been there, for being grounded, right? And that just again brings me back to who my true self is, my inner essence, my true north. And when you listen to your inner voice and when you really start connecting what energizes you with what sort of the things that I'm passionate about, with doing certain things that support that. And every single moment that, that you're experiencing, that you're reconnecting with your inner self.

I think so. I, I love it. I love the go hug a tree. I mean, that's gonna be like a clip that we say, you know, go hug tree people. But I love where you're coming from because, yeah, I think intentional travel, I know that's a lane that you and your sister and your business, like, that's the, that's a part of your business of where you're helping people connect with that. I also think though, it's kind of like in, in the industry of mindset, personal development, when we hear self-care, we hear a lot of like, I call it fluffy things. And it's like, and I say fluffy, they may not be fluffy to you, I get it. But for me, getting a massage isn't necessarily like a moment of like, most times isn't for me self-care. It's a care, it is caring for myself, but it's not a luxury kind of experience that most people think. I do it so that my body can function day to day, right? It's not, it's for that space. But I think when we hear the word about intentionally listening to yourself, you have to quiet the noise. I think that's the overall thing you're saying. It's like you need to get out of whatever the environment is to actually hear yourself. Maybe that's traveling and being in a space away. Maybe that is going on a walk and hugging a tree. Maybe that is all of those things. But I definitely believe that there's so much noise, and the noise is also happening in our head. How have you found that's helpful for you distinguishing what voice of that noise is yours and what's not?

Oh, that is a great question. It takes practice, and it's not a one-time thing, and it takes conscious going back to what allowed that to happen, that awareness of what's that noise and what's the real thing that you need to be doing. I, you know, you use the word noise. I like to use the word labels. Like, we have so many different labels, you know. We're wife, we're partners, we are mothers, we are sisters, we are, you know, part of a community, we're employees. You know, we're all these different labels, right? And yes, that is part of who you are at this moment, but that is not part of your true essence. It's not outside of you. Your true essence, it's that individual light that each of us carry. So to me, that's the most important thing, to be able to connect to that, you have to be in a place that you feel like you have no labels, right? You feel— and most of this thing is done by yourself, right? You can do these activities with like-minded friends, with, you know, soul sisters. You could— because that's— there's magic in that, and I absolutely endorse that magic. I've seen it, I've lifted, I, you know, it's real. But a lot of the— when you are in that quiet with just yourself, that's when your loudest voice can come through for you to understand what it's really going to help you, what really is meaningful. For you as you, the person, not you, the wife, you, the partner, you, the employee, you're the mom, you're the sister, the daughter, all the different labels, all that different noise. It's you. There's something that—

go ahead, I'm sorry.

No, I was just gonna say that anything that will get you to that point. It's absolutely necessary. It's not a luxury. It's not. But it's a practice, right? And when I hear you say, you know, a massage, yes, I agree with you. But let's take for instance, you are getting that massage near a beach, and the only sound that you hear are the waves coming in and out which your body automatically starts breathing in the same pattern as the waves come in and out of the sand. So your body is in tuning with Earth, is in tuning with nature. And guess what happens during that massage? All of a sudden you start having these ideas about, you know, oh, but wait, I really liked, you know, when I remember when I used to love to paint. And I remember where I— when, you know, it was so lovely to draw, or it was so lovely just to write a poem, or whatever it is that it's part of that essence starts coming through. But you have to be in a— or it's ideal, not that I have— you have to— let me not use that word. Ideally, it would be in a setting that lets you quiet the noise intentionally, step away from all the labels intentionally, so that you can intentionally hear your own voice.

Yeah, I 100% agree with you, and I would share from my own experience with starting to be more attuned to what that voice is, that the things you resist the most are often the things that your inner is trying to tell you, like, no, we need you to pay attention to that, right? The thing you resist or the thing that you can't quite put your finger on, it's almost oftentimes I have found for myself the thing I need to kind of gear in on and start getting curious about. Well, why do I feel that way? Why is this coming up? The more I'm curious about what is that conflict or that resistance, the more clear I get to hearing, oh, this label is not the label I'm trying to— or that voice isn't mine. I choose not to believe that voice. Right. I choose not to believe that label for everything that I'm going to do. And I think that's what you're saying. You need to put yourself in a space where you're intentionally— if you are having resistance, because I think when you first start in this process, you are going to have resistance. Those labels are going to be like so big and so loud that you're like, what are you talking about, Nikita Williams and Janet Williams? What do you mean, hear my voice? I don't know, but it is there. And I'm curious to hear what is your suggestion for someone who is like, okay, I've started this practice of just really trying to give myself 5 minutes once a week. Notice I said once a week. I didn't say every day yet, but once a week, 5 minutes to just be with yourself. If they're feeling resistance or if they're like, it's not working, because I've had clients say it's not working, Nikita. I'm like, oh, it's working. What would be your, from your personal experience that you have found for them to lean into? To try differently?

I would say prioritize yourself. Prioritize yourself at least, you know, I know you're saying a week, but try to, you know, 5, 10 minutes a day, because the more you do it, the more you are retraining your body. And this is so true for us as women who— we carry so much. We carry so much. And that's not to negate what men also carry, but we carry things differently. And it is supremely important for us to find intentionally that 5-10 minutes a day to prioritize yourself. Now, whether that means 5 minutes sitting down with a cup of coffee, no phones, no newspaper, no iPad, no TV, just 5 minutes with a cup of coffee or your favorite tea to sit down and drink it. Mm-hmm. That's it.

That's it.

5, 10 minutes. That's it. And you're training yourself, because the more you do it, the easier it becomes. And I know that it— people say that about a lot of things, but it's true. They say it because it's true.

Yes, right.

It's— you have— there are these habits that we have to relearn because of a lot of societal expectations, family expectations. You know, we're taught to prioritize others before ourselves, and we have to somehow unlearn that. And to me, an easy way to do it is just start 5-10 minutes a day. Yeah, focus on yourself.

I love that. And I also am going to only put a little Nikita spin on it because I think that is a great practice to get to, honestly. Like, if you could do it every day, 5 minutes, great. But for some of us, that commitment for doing every day is so hard to give yourself permission for. Like, it is, it feels like, like, it feels like painful at some emotional level for us. I'll— and I'll share personally, like, for example, when I'm working with my therapist, she's like, take 10 minutes to feel the feelings. I'm like, girl, that, that seems really impossible right now. Like, I cannot sit in these feelings for 10 minutes. That's insane to me. And I was like, girl, I don't know about 10 minutes. Just like, well, just do it for longer than you normally do it and keep trying to increase it. So I have found that has been super helpful to just give yourself— if the standard is to give yourself 5 minutes a day and that seems like scary to you or that feels like impossible to you, maybe it's 2 minutes and you're doing it every single day and you're working up to the 5 or the 10 minutes or whatever. But make it a part of something you're working towards over time because If you're not used to sitting with yourself, if you're not used to listening to yourself without all the labels popping up, that can feel actually really scary and overwhelming. Oh no.

Can you still hear me?

Yes, I can still hear you.

Yes, you're still here.

Okay.

Okay.

Weird. Hopefully we'll still be here, but I have found just taking the time to work towards those, like, I guess you could call them, I don't know what I would call them, just those benchmarks of 5 minutes a day, right? Working towards that can be helpful because I think if we don't give ourselves some permission to like work up to that. We will fit— we'll spend most of the time judging ourselves that we haven't, and judging ourselves that we aren't doing it fast enough. And then it becomes a thing that's just more noise, right? Versus the helpful, I'm with me, and that's safe, and that's okay. And so I just wanted to offer that because I definitely think every day builds a habit. But sometimes, for many of us, um, there's a lot of reasons why being with yourself can feel extremely uncomfortable because that's not an environment that you have been conditioned to be okay with. Right. So I just wanted to share that if anyone's listening, because I do that aspect and already feeling a little bit like, oh my gosh, I can't do that. You're not alone in that. I'm here with you. So in your business with your sister, which I'm super excited, you all are creating spaces where this can be done within community as they travel. Tell us a little bit more about what that looks like and where you guys— like, what's coming up for you all?

Yeah, so we just— this past weekend, we just launched our website. We're super excited. It's soulcraft-journeys.com, and in it you will find really what our mission is over. You know, if I had to summarize it in a sentence is SelfCraft Journeys just crafts intentional travel experiences, retreats, but we call them journeys because we have intentionally designed 3 different kinds of journeys. You know, some of us are really find that it's an environment that it's more healing, one that it's more quieter, that's really focused on attuning with your inner voice. Others find that in environments that where they can not only get a massage, right, but they can also do some yoga and do some journaling or some breathwork, which is so important for grounding and centering yourself. But many of us also like to express ourselves through body movement and excursions and hiking and kayaking and doing just physical activity. So for that, we have the Explore journey that does lend itself to that joy and creativity to really shine through, if that's your— what you're most comfortable with. So what we do is we— of all these years of learnings that we've been able to do, I have created a method, which I call the SoulCraft Experience. And every single journey goes— there's an aspect of that method, and there's a 4-step method. So that is grounding, it's release, it's reconnection with yourself. And all of our journeys have that. So not only do women get a chance to travel intentionally, but also when they arrive at a place where everything has been planned and they don't have to be thinking about, you know, oh my gosh, what am I gonna have for dinner? What am I gonna do right now? You know, everything has been planned for them. And in addition to a lot of time for self-reflection, because it is so important, again, when, you know, you get a lot of ideas and you do get a lot of aside from doing the SilvoTherapy and being outdoors and doing all these things that do help you to reconnect with yourself, but also that period of just being with yourself, whether that be you going out for a walk by yourself or within community. And we are keeping this journeys intentionally small so that we are able to assist and be there also with people that might either come in solo or it is their first time trying something that is not a vacation, right? Because with vacation, it's, you know, sometimes equates to a lot more work.

Yes. Unless you're going on a cruise. I have learned, but it was a little different, but anything else feels like a lot of work. Yes. I agree with you.

Yes. So we're like, okay, we, my sister also worked as a travel agent for many years. So she has that. There's so many things, which is why, you know, it's when you really give yourself time to explore what it is that it's possible for you to make an impact. The answers will come from you.

Yes.

And the answers came from us. It's like, okay, travel and support. Yeah. And community.

Yeah.

And sisterhood. And not stress. And, you know, how can we offer all of that in a way that does not feel intimidating, that it feels safe, that it feels practical, right? That really resonates with them. And that's something that we wanted to do from the, you know, while we're designing these things, it's like, I don't, we don't, which is why we don't call them retreats. We don't want to be just another person planning and hosting retreats. That's not what we want to do. We want to help the women that come in our journeys after the retreat so that within the few days that we're together, they feel that they have access to tools that they can then go once they come back to the noise, to all the labels, Know what 5, 10 minutes a day or a week or whatever that looks like for you that will continue to allow yourself— when you take a pause, you can reconnect to that inner voice, which is so important for you to be able to, because your heart, your inner wisdom, it's what's going to allow you to move forward with your life purpose. So when I first— when you first asked me what burnout meant for me, that's why I used the word disconnection, because burnout is a message that you're being told that what you're doing right now might not be in your best interest, might not be tied or connected or aligned to the work that you are here to do.

I mean, yeah, I mean, that is a huge thing. And I love that you guys are creating that space for women to come and experience that and then keep the community aspect as a place for them to go afterwards. I always feel like that with conferences and retreats because, you know, you have that high if you go to a conference and you have that high when you go to retreat and then you go back to real life. I actually have a client who just finished a retreat and she's like, I was so happy. And then she came back and she's like, girl, I got like so disconnected already. And I was like, oh, honey. And I was like, it is really important to continue whatever it is that you were doing there because in whatever shape or form. So I love you guys are bringing like the this and like, yes, go experience this in an intentional travel way, but also bring some of those practices and we'll support you even after that. I think that's a beautiful, you know, addition and as a beautiful like differential for what we see that's happening in the world because we do. I think whether you're an introvert or an extrovert, like healing and coming to understand yourself often happens in very intentional spaces with other like-minded people wanting to work on those things as well. So I think it's great. And I also think your whole point from the beginning to now, that burnout is a part of a disconnection. And I really do believe that is such a really powerful thing that you said. If anything, I think anyone takes away from this conversation is that just because you go on the retreat, just because you go to the conference or you take the vacation, if you don't actually deal with the part that's disconnecting from where you actually need to be, and I don't like to use the word, but where you're most aligned, it sounds like the burnout will still be there. The burnout will still be there. So what a beautiful come around to come, you know, meet each other and all that. I really appreciate you sharing your story and sharing your advice. On connection and knowing.

Yes, of course. And it's been such a pleasure talking to you, Nikita Williams Williams, meeting you. I really hope we get to connect personally in the future, and I really want you to meet my sister. You're gonna have the best time talking to her because she is really somebody very special. And I don't say that just because she's my sister. She's really, she's a wonderful human.

I love it. I love it. Well, I can't wait to meet her. We will have all of the information on how everyone can come to learn more about you and Sew Craft Journeys and about the business. I can't, I can't wait to check out the website because I didn't know you had it up yet. So that's exciting. And is there anything else you want our audience to hear before we say goodbye?

To trust in your inner intuition. Listen to it and it will never steer you wrong. It would always point to your highest purpose and your true north. So trust it.

Well, thank you so much, Janet. Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you, thank you so much, Nikita Williams Williams.

Alrighty, let's