Visibility Over Operations with a Performance Management Solution (Part 5) - Thao Ngo and Emily Ward - Revenue Today - Episode # 102

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This takes us really well into our next slide, if we don't mind advancing. But I mean, this is really where that technology piece is so critical, right? How does technology connect everything? Again, another common sense statement. But I would say one of my challenges was actually tracking ROI at a more granular level. So, you know, trying to track ROI was like actually a really heavy manual lift of where I was trying to like understand the the ROI for a specific campaign or a specific event, right? Like the way the systems were built, it was not necessarily facilitating that. It required, again, huge manual lift and lots of people who don't have time for that kind of level of work and effort, right? So I would just say, generally speaking, if you're having those difficulties, you're not alone. And again, for those of us who are going through mergers, there's a whole new level of difficulty to the game. Yeah. So I would say, just wanted to introduce or reiterate on the point of what a marketing performance management solution does, right? And it really exists with the purpose of helping prove marketing value to the business. So I personally couldn't see ROI at a granular level. So I started the search for an MPM solution, marketing performance management, almost 2 years ago when I stepped into my role from a different part of the business and realized very quickly that I could not track ROI at a more granular level, right? So how do I manage my teams? How do I tell them where to focus? How do I stop doing the things that aren't working? It becomes really challenging. I mean, I could track kind of return, but that I, the investment piece and tying that all together was really challenging. So I'm presuming that other orgs must be facing the same challenges because this category of marketing performance management is growing, right? Personally, like, my catalyst for procuring a solution like this was to help marketing get a true seat at the table. I wanted to be able to show up to executive-level discussions and share what marketing's impact was or is and will be on the business, right? So you do that by demonstrating and ultimately maximizing ROI. So we're pretty early in the stages of our journey here, working through implementation, but I can already see the benefits. Of getting marketing planning out of spreadsheets. I don't know how many of you are experiencing the pain of that, right? Multiple versionings conflicting, people are looking at different documents. But, you know, really the goal is to get this into a centralized tool that provides a different level of tracking and visibility for our team, like one that they've never had before. So this whole process has actually also sparked all kinds of fantastic conversations with other stakeholders across the business. Because there is a definite interest in understanding what marketing's impact is to the business. What is our contribution to things like revenue, product growth, and even organizational objectives, right? So having this visibility, again, it's a whole new ballgame for us. So if you are new to MPM or flirting with the idea of it, I would just highly recommend considering it as a means to contributing to the conversation in a more effective way. And I will say, Tao, I would love to hear your perspective about this because, well, you have not only moved forward with an MPM solution in the past, but you are now in this area from a professional standpoint. So curious for your take.

Exactly. So when I look at my own experience in terms of wanting that visibility over my marketing operations, my budget, ROI performance, It was driven largely from not wanting to be caught out as well. So, the catalyst for my experience was we got a new CFO. This is at a previous company. And I was worried about not being on top of my numbers. I was relying on a very complex spreadsheet that had long outlived its usefulness. And if at any point somebody took out a formula and just put in numbers, I mean, that was just it. That was just it. And so pulling up that sad little spreadsheet next to the CFO's NetSuite reports wasn't going to cut it. But I knew I had some runway before she came around and started digging into the marketing budget. So I was scrambling to try to get that MPM solution in because I have one shot in showing her I knew my numbers, I was on top of my numbers, And I could justify the spend. And so, she didn't have to question it because it was just right connected to NetSuite as well. And if she wanted to talk to our financial analyst as well, she would be able to hear the same story or strategy on how we're spending and what we're planning to do as a team because we were one team together as well. So, that was a big catalyst for me to just get everything together. And that is not even You know, some of our customers were managing spreadsheets with multi-million dollar, billion dollar budgets on spreadsheets. So it becomes a little bit scary there. So question for Emily, what's the name of the tool you're now implementing to track the ROI?

Funny you should ask. It's actually, so I guess formerly Allocadia and now UpTempo, which is actually how Tao and I met. So I would say there's— we did a full vetting process. There's a number of different solutions on the market, but we did end up going with Palicadia, now UpTempo. So again, a whole nother level of insights that I just did not know was possible. And I've attempted this at a number of different organizations and taken it to different levels. But— Yeah, so we are again early in the process, but already seeing the benefits of it.

Yes, and we internally use our own software. We drink our own champagne as well. So when I talk about the team having the budget training and visibility, we all have logins. We have the budget monthly meetings. We open it up. Everybody knows how to use the tool as well. So we do have time for questions. If people want to add questions, in this Q&A or the chat, we'll grab those. But while we're waiting, I have a spicy question to ask you, Emily, because I was part of a roundtable last week and the question of CMO and CRO popped up. And in fact, it was the scenario of the CMO reporting into the CRO.

Hmm.

Wasn't a popular scenario. People felt very strongly about this. It just went on and on for a discussion. I actually hadn't heard that reporting structure before. And, you know, if I had to think about it, put myself in the CEO's shoes, I'm assuming they're wanting to put a CRO in place because then they'll know somebody is passionate about or responsible for or focused on revenue specifically. specifically, and maybe they think the 3 areas can't work in harmony without reporting to one head. And that's part of the stigma of CMOs not having the revenue or financial chops to be a CRO, I think, to run their marketing organization with a revenue focus. But it was, it was a hot topic.

I'm sure. Yeah. I mean, I would really hope that like marketing as an organization, our CMOs of the world, right, are evolving to this revenue focus, right? We're at RevCon. So I'm hoping that there's just a natural tendency for folks to gravitate towards this approach. But I think there's been a major shift in terms of how we look at marketing, right? There is kind of the old school. And again, I'm not trying to go brand and creative versus, but I think what we're seeing is that all of it is important, but at the end of the day, you're being measured on results and revenue impact, right? I can see why an organization might bring in a CRO function. We actually don't have an official CRO function at my organization, but there is a motion towards that kind of thought process. And so I think in lieu of an actual specific CRO function, I work very closely. One of my closest relationships is with my head of business operations for the organization, right? And so, I think together in concert, we're doing this work. So, those are those alignment meetings that I was talking about because it really is about being collaborative. And I would say, you know, I'd be interested for those that have a CRO function. My guess would be that there's a tendency to, from what I've seen, go with kind of a sales leader in that function, right? Where they have a primary focus on revenue impact numbers, right? That just feels like kind of the natural thing to do. Do. What I'd love to see that the function like really evolve into is a true understanding. And I think it's not that easy to come by, right? Have you sat on both sides of the table? Do you understand the challenges that each of these, these groups faces? How can you marry and collaborate and make all of that happen in a positive way? So like what I'd love to see is more and more leaders that have stepped over to the other side of the line, right? And can really represent from both sides because I think there's different, very valid different perspectives there.

Absolutely. Um, and also in the spirit of Halloween, I'm going to ask a question about nightmares. So what is a nightmare situation that you've been in and have you survived? So as you think of that, I'll start with my nightmare situation. So, in a company I was at, we did have a CRO and he wanted to turn off the demand tap and explore ABM. And there wasn't actually true buy-in from sales, marketing, or RevOps as well. So, I can just tell you it was a nightmare getting that off the ground. Of course, it didn't go anywhere. Nobody knew who was on first. There's technology issues. So that was definitely where the collaboration, partnership, and communication just utterly just broke down there. So that was my nightmare. Barely survived.

I mean, I would say I advise any of my organizations that I've ever worked for, please do never turn off the demand tap, right? Like, that is just like, you need to diversify that marketing mix. Like, you never want to put all of your eggs in one basket. Because that is risky, right? And then what ends up happening is when you have that gap, you may not feel it immediately, but when you look down the line, depending upon what your average deal velocity is, you'll see that drop somewhere down the line. And then that's when you're going to be scrambling, but it's already too late, right? That ship has sailed and then you're trying to make up for it in different ways. So yeah, that is definitely something that I've had to talk even clients of mine out of, right? Like, please don't turn it off. Like, even if you go down to a low hum, But obviously the ABM or AVS function is really a critical one that we should be exploring further. I think it's really hot at a lot of organizations right now. But I do firmly believe diversifying that marketing mix, your strategies is really important so that you kind of don't get yourself in a pickle down the road. So thanks for sharing that one.

And then just one last question because I think we can fit this in is Planning season. I think this is for a lot of organizations planning season. So, I'm always curious how other organizations, other leaders tackle their planning. How do you do your planning? When do you do it? How often do you do it? Do you track back to the plan to see how you are? What's happening there in terms of planning? Are you in planning season right now, Emily?

Yeah. Yeah. So we are actually kind of in a weird hybrid place because of the merger, right? So our fiscal year switched. So we've been in planning season for the last year, actually. It's an ongoing process. But what I will say is, in my perfect world, being a marketer and understanding kind of the, again, the deal velocity at the organization, how long it really takes to get things through the pipeline, when you're thinking about that funnel where marketing is working, we're starting pretty top of funnel. So I want as much leeway as possible to start filling pipeline. And so I'm really actually not even looking at this year's targets. I mean, I am, but also, again, some of that ship has sailed. I'm really looking at what is our direction as an organization moving into the future so I can help support and fuel that. And part of that is really having these data-driven conversations around budget to help make the case for appropriate budget to support organizational growth goals. So all of this that we've covered today is happening kind of in concert with the goal of being able to help educate, help understand the impact of marketing so that we can make the case for additional budget to fuel that growth that's desired by the organization. Because again, no organization that I've ever worked with has been like, you're okay, let's just like dial it back this year. We don't want to grow. Everyone's looking for growth, right? And that comes at a price, right? Marketing isn't free. We obviously try to tap into as many organic opportunities as we can, but when you're really looking to scale and support that growth, it's really important to understand what are those activities and what is the investment that's required to make that a success.

Yeah. And I think what you said before about marketing wanting to invest all day long, if you can show ROI, if there's ROI in a program, We can definitely shift investment there. And you'll find that there will be extra funds on the table as well. So sometimes there is extra budget left on the table. Should we give it to sales, marketing, IT, or whatever? And if you can show that ROI, you'll get that money. Yeah. So, I mean, so both ways in terms of figuring out where you need to cut from programs and where you would put extra budget in to hit pipeline goals as well.

Absolutely. Yeah.

So I don't think there are any more questions in the last minute and a half. So we should wrap it up. I don't know if Bree's coming on board. So maybe I'll wrap things up on this side. It was great having everybody take time out of your busy days. I know it's like midweek back-to-back meetings. We're all in that. So taking your time to spend time with us listening, and also Emily, taking your time to prepare and being my partner in crime in this. This is great, it's fantastic. I didn't knock anything over on the table. I say that it's a success. Um, so thank you again, and really, as we go into planning season, I wish everybody good luck, good thinking, and good data.

Good ROI. Yes, thanks for including me. Really appreciate it. Thanks all. Thanks for your time today.

Whoa! Another great episode of Revenue Today. For show notes, links, and mentions, visit revenue today dot live. For all my friends in the Rev Genius community, thank you. It's been awesome to spend this time with you. Please DM me any feedback and ideas. in our Slack channel or on LinkedIn. If you're not in RevGenius, join us at revgenius.com. It's free and it only takes like 2 seconds and you'll be joining a group of 27,000 revenue professionals strong. We've got it all. Looking forward to seeing you there. Catch you on the flip side. Thank

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