How to Instantly Spot a Dodgy Builder: A Glazier's Guide

We find the most professional people have the information correct. They're easy to do business with. You're not chasing them for bits and pieces. The unorganized builders are an absolute nightmare to do business with. The way they communicate, the way they greet you, is that professional? Are they professional in the way they present themselves? For us, it's the right customer to deal with. And from the homeowner, is that the right builder to deal with?

Hey, guys, welcome to the Builder's Edge. I'm Norm Wales from Norm Wales Constructions. Now, for me, the whole purpose of this podcast here is to bring a little bit more awareness around the construction industry. I've been feeling for many, many years that there's not enough helpful information out there to support you guys to make the right choice. Now, we are a smaller family independent building company, and we're not here to build everybody's home. But we would definitely love to be able to work with you to facilitate your dream home. But if we don't build your new home, we want you to be able to make the right decision in choosing the right builder for you. So hopefully the information that I'm able to provide through this podcast can be informative and helpful that you can now create your dream home. So I hope you enjoy, and thanks for watching. So, Greg, before we dive into this podcast, can you tell us a bit about yourself and how you got to where you are today and then why you care so much about helping families build their dream home?

Yeah, well, I started when I was 16 years old at Dow, actually, which is now part of the G. James Group, loading windows on trucks. So I started from the very bottom making windows and worked myself, worked my way up through the office in internal sales, and there was a reps job available on the Sunshine coast when I turned 20, and I was just married six months, and I said to my wife, let's go. I was quite excited. And everything we owned fitted in two ute loads up to the Sunshine Coast. So we started with nothing. And when I started with Dow, all I got was a car, car keys, a quote pad, and a price book and go out and sell. So I had to go. I was doing the bottom end of the coast. And an average household of windows back then was $500. Right. Love it. Okay. And there was only two colors, clear anodized and bronze. And if you had clear anodized windows, you were poor. And if you had bronze anodized windows, you were rich. And up. Back then, Noosa Sound was really strong. And there was a wasteland From Maroochydore all the way up to Noosa Sound. And an average household of windows in Noosa Sound was three and a half grand. So you could see the huge difference. So my boss could sell like 60,000 and I'd have to work my back cycles to try and get there, but I'll be up till like one in the morning doing quotes and then going out on site because there's no mobile phones, no pages, no nothing and you're on the phone to a customer. And so my phone calls started at five in the morning and finished up as 10, 11 o' clock at night. So I used to turn the phone sideways so I could eat my tea at six o' clock and. And then the only two nights the phone didn't ring was Friday night and Sunday night because they were at the pub or out having dinner and they start again on the Sunday. So it was a very hands on situation back then. You had to do a lot of cold calling and it was extremely tactile. And the crazy part about on Friday no one was on site at 12 o' clock they were all at the pub and there was a lot of business done at the, at the pub. So we go to the pub and if you had to stay there till 10 o' clock at night, they put the chairs up, otherwise the builders wouldn't talk to you and I'd say, look, come and talk to me on Monday. So you turn up on site Monday to go and do business with them. They said, what are you doing here? He said, mate, you told me that you're going to give me a job. Oh, that's right. Yeah, you're right. So that, that, that was the very beginning of the process. But I've been in windows 50 years as of next year. I'm retiring at the end of this year. I think I've done enough. I've seen it change dramatically from the type of products and the houses being built. Back in those days, you know, there was no ensuites and houses, it was just single lockup, garages and things of that nature. So until what we have now, 50 years later is miles different.

That's an amazing feat, mate. Like, that's incredible. 50 years, you know, like hats off to you, mate. That's, that's amazing. You know, not many people achieve something like that. Yeah, so. And like, you know, with yourself there, like, you know what, why do you care so much about helping families build their dream homes?

Because, you know, being a family man myself, being married to the Same lady for 45 years, having your kids and grandkids, you know, you want to. You want to help people to have a good life. At the end of the day, the meaning of life is your family.

Yeah.

So, you know, you want to help people make the right decision. And when they build a house, it is the biggest investment of their life. But it's two things as well as investment. It's their lifestyle, what pleasure it brings them. Because when they turn the key and move into the house, that's their century. That's where they disappear from the world and feel good. So. And probably as you get older, you realize this more that, you know, you want to do the right thing. People generally want to do the right thing by other people.

Yeah.

You know, that's human nature. I believe that's the right, correct way of thinking and doing the right thing.

No, look, I think you're definitely on the money there. Look, it's the way I was bought up with stuff then, you know, it's a. A good thing that, you know, what you believe in there. You know, it's. You don't come across that as much anymore, you know, so it's an amazing thing to sort of have that you hold yourself to, you know, and it's amazing, you know, for the time you've spent with the company there, you know, so, you know, when it comes down to, like, specific details and stuff there, like, what specific things do you see Glaziers observe that might signal substandard, like, building practices.

Right. From a supplier's perspective.

It'S the quality of the information and the way they run their business. And also, too, when you walk in, what does the business feel like? You know, if you walk into a. I've walked into a lot of businesses, building companies, and it feels. It feels good. Okay. There's no stress in the air. It's relaxed. People are friendly, the professional in the way they communicate with you. You know, like when we're dealing with the builder, we want to make sure that we. We get everything right. And the only way we can get everything right, we need everything right from them. Okay. So, you know, the warning signs for us is, are we getting all the specification details? Are we getting all the information on the. On the. On the plans, like the elevations and floor plans, Other details there. Have we got all the energy ratings? Have we got the acoustics? Is there bushfire required? What's the wind and water pressure on the project? We find professional builders have all this down pat really well. Okay. And their communication is very clear and clean. Right. There is no umming and ahhing or I forgot that or you know, where you've got to follow them up.

We have a. In the years I've been in the, in the window industry, especially from the sales side of it, and I've been involved from the sales for 45 years and I've dealt with very, a myriad of people, different diverse personalities, different types of thinking from a business perspective on which market segments builders play in and volume, medium and premium in the residential. And then we talk about commercials, a different mindset again. But we find the most professional people have the information correct and they're easy to do business with. You're not chasing them for business bits and pieces. And what we find is the unorganized builders are an absolute nightmare to do business with. And they're, to me, they're the warning signs. You know, if you're looking to deal with a company that, that you want them to build your dream home or building this investment property, you've got to. Are they professional in the way they present themselves? You know, even the way if you walk in, as I said, you walk into their office, is that professional? The way they communicate, the way they greet you, is that professional? You go out on the job sites, is a job sites nice and clean and professional. They're all the hallmarks of the right customer or the right builder. For us, it's the right customer to deal with. And from a homeowner, is that the right builder to deal with?

Yeah. Now look, that's all valid information. Like I guess, you know, this is short. They're like, how can families leverage like a glazier's expertise to validate, you know, the quality of the, you know, the builder's work?

Right. Well, the simplest way is, is that have they got certification on the products that are being installed? Not just only windows and doors. We're talking shower screens, wardrobe doors.

Security screen products and things of that nature. And it's their installation detail. Now all the reputable window companies have certification, right. That their products are compliant for that build. And because we're, you know, in Australia, especially in Queensland, we've got this cyclonic regions, you know, you've got to make sure when a cyclone comes through, you know, that the windows are going to not fail. Yeah, they're going to be intact. Right. The last thing you want is, is for a cyclone to come through and then the client ringing up saying my windows are failed. Right.

Yeah. So I guess that brings us into like, you know, what are the some like areas Like, I guess people can look at there, you know, common shortcuts. I guess that you get dodgy builders out there that take. When it comes down to glazing.

Well, the thing for, you know, they can ask simple questions. Are they using toughened or laminated glass in the wet areas? You know, once. And that's by law, you've got to do that. All the sliding doors have got a toughened glass or laminate. That's called a grade A safety glass. Are they. Are they. Are they providing that correctly? And you can see that because there's stickers on the toughened glass. There is a. There is a. There is a motive on the bottom of the glass, nominating which. Which glass companies actually produce the glass.

Yeah.

So that's.

And I guess with that there as well, you know, it's also about the. The actual. The safety of that glass. It's like a marking there that's going to identify. Absolutely. Code.

Absolutely. So what's happening now is in the certification of the window, in the window jam, which is the vertical part where the slider locks into, there will be.

A sticker or a label in there nominating the wind pressure of that product for that, for that. For that house. By law, that's got to be in there. So there's the things that, like, you can, you can go looking for these, for these certification labels that are physically in the window jamb, the vertical part. And the same with the sliding doors. I think all those things come together to give surety to the homeowner that the builder is putting the right product into their house.

And like, how can glazing issues affect the longevity and safety of a home?

Well, the thing for me is, you know, if we do the right thing.

And put the right product in, we can also recommend one of the most underrated glass that we have is laminate. Right. Laminate glass brings a lot of. Lot of benefits. One of them is especially big panels of glass. So with lemonade glass, you've got two bits of float glass with a polymer film in the middle, and they sandwich together with. That's what they call it. There's lamination. So they, they come together right now when they make glass, when they make what's called float glass, is the glass comes out of a furnace horizontally onto a bed of molten tin. So the glass actually floats on the tin. That's why they call it float. Right. And when we bring the two together and we put the polymer in the middle, the benefits are this. Number one, they're 99 UV which means that if you're spending a hundred thousand dollars on furniture inside your house. Right. UV light will fade it.

Yeah, that's right.

Same thing with your flooring, too. It'll fade it. Lemonade glass is 99 UV. It'll cut it out 109.

And just on that there, like I, I can see, like I, I can actually firsthand. My sister has actually just bought a home and their home has clear glass. And once again, they've got lovely furniture.

Yep.

Sun's beaming through, you know, and it's damaging, you know, their products there, you know. So they've now gone down a path of putting shutters all the way around home, which is a very expensive option, you know. And look, don't get me wrong, shutters and things look fantastic.

Yep.

But then I guess you're going to get to the point there that if people have to start spending all that money to cover up that the glass there, like. But if they spent the money and put the right float in to begin with.

Yeah.

You might be out on a, you know, big acreage property or overlooking the ocean. You don't want shutters and no, you don't have that stuff. You know, quite often when you're in those sorts of locations, nothing's on those at all. You want to be able to sort of see through, observe that there. So, you know, it's not just going to save you money by investing that little bit more into the flooded glass. It's, you know, going to save you tenfold, really, you know, if you're not putting blinds and curtains and shutters and those sorts of things in. So, yeah, like making, I guess, that investment earlier and, you know, I guess that's where you get down to, unfortunately, some other dodgy builders out there that, you know, will only work to the bare minimums, you know, to save cost and stuff like that there. You know, they do that there. So their quote looks appealing, but they're not obviously in your best interest. That's going to be potentially helping you in the long run.

Yeah, I think what you're talking about is hidden costs. Right. So that, you know, when, you know, a builder's putting is not recommending the right product mix for that house. And then they have the heating cost, as you said, they got to put shutters and things like that, and they'll go and spend a couple of, you know, $10,000 on shutters where they could have put $5,000 in the laminate and get it and get a better deal. The other things that lemonade Bring too is that there's an acoustic property value there. So it reduces. So what happens is as the sound wave travels through the glass and it hits the polymer film, it changes the sound wave. So when it comes through the other glass, it deadens it. Right? So you get a better, a better noise reduction. The next thing you get is better security. Now we've got a video norm we've got to send here where we've got a guy with a crowbar who smashes a piece of float glass and it just drops, right? And then we've got another one where he hits toughened glass and it just shatters in small bits. And then he's laying into laminate. Now it took him probably five goes to try and get the lemonade out. Right. From a security point of view, lemonade is superior.

No, look, most definitely it's a fantastic product there, but you know, like I guess shifting gears and direction a little bit there. Like, you know, do you sometimes find, you know, some builders running around from, you know, one glazing company to the other, you know, and like why is that do you think?

Yeah, well the main reason is, is because the, the current supplier has supply supply chain issues. And, and what happens then is that that impacts on the build of the house. So if they can't get product on time, window and door product on time to the house, which means I can't lock up, which means that pushes back all the internal fit out of the house, which push out, pushes out the handover to, to the end user.

Well, it's that knock on effect, isn't it? Through any sort of production and system that you have. But I guess there too when builders, I guess working with reputable people like yourselves there and you know, we've got time frames and things to work to, you know, it's really important that I guess they're adhered to, you know, so everything can flow. Do you sometimes find some builders running around from one glazing company to another? You know, it's a thing or, and you know, why do they do that?

The reason they do it is because of supply chain issues. There's a couple of reasons. Supply chains, one or there's a product they require that the competitor doesn't have or they've topped out on the capacity for manufacturing so that, what, what that does it impedes on the cash flow of that builder because he can't get lockup and handover payments on time. Also their client is renting longer so they're not happy.

Yeah, look, and that's exactly right. Like it definitely has that knock on effect there. But do you find like, you know, sometimes that builders are going from one supplier to the other because they either haven't paid their bills with one person and they go to another.

Yep.

And do you sometimes find that, you know, they might go from one to the other because of obviously user, you know, a very reputable company, they deliver a fantastic product and there's other companies out there that will deliver less of grade of things there and they're doing that to a price point.

Yep.

Like, but do you find that that can actually then be very misconceiving to the consumer that they just look up, hey, I'm just getting windows and doors in my quote. But they don't know the level and the quality of what they're getting.

Yeah, that's true. Look, you know, I had a builder asked me say I understand these other companies, but I don't understand G. James. I said, we are the Mercedes Benz and BMW windows. So if you want to put a Hyundai in your house, you know, which is fit for purpose and just does.

The job, you may not be the right.

Might be the right. That's right, yeah. So. So that was the best analogy that I could give that.

Yeah, no, that's a fair point. You know, and it's one of those things, you pay for what you get there as well and you know, the, the experience you guys have, you definitely back up that up there. But I guess in short there mate, like the biggest thing to take away, you know, from what we've discussed there, you know, is just making sure that people understand that there's other options out there.

Yes.

And sometimes paying that little bit more might actually help save them, you know, more money down the line.

Yep.

You know, and you know like the knowledge and you know, the time you've been in industry, like it's invaluable, you know, and I greatly appreciate you sort of coming on today's show with that, but I've just got one last question that I'd like to ask and.

We go to the to get to know Norm Jar, I guess and in here we'd like to sort of find out a little bit more about ourselves.

So Greg, what's the most surprising thing you've learned about yourself on your life journey?

Ah, wow. What a question.

Nothing's impossible.

I don't believe in conventional thinking. I'm purely abstract because abstract is unlimited. When you cap your potential, which means that you think that you can't do things, you then have in My opinion, a mediocre life. So I started on the factory floor making windows as a boy and you know, I was running businesses, turning over 60 million, you know, with a lot of people working for me. And then I've come to G. James and I've really, really enjoyed my time at G. James. It's been fantastic. Great people, great products and you know, I want to do the right thing by the customer and your customer. So I think the biggest thing is don't limit your potential in anything that you do, believe in what you do. Don't use words that aren't, in my opinion. Stop you from, from growing, like trying, hoping, wishing, praying. Those words are non event words as far as I'm concerned. It's about doing, planning, strategic looking, looking ahead. So when you look, you know you've got two beams, you've got low beam and high beam. So the low beam is what am I doing today, this week, this month? High beam is looking over the horizon.

What's happening next year, what's happening the year after? You've got to look over the horizon to create opportunities for yourself. Otherwise you have an extremely view of, narrow view of life. The two things that I've taken away in my career so far, I've met some incredibly good people that haven't changed. They become wealthy, but who they are has not changed. And I've met some, I'll be honest, some terrible people too, you know, and you learn from that. But the other thing that came forth was the diversity of thought as you meet people and you've got different types of thinking that opens your mind, right? Because you don't, as I said, you don't limit yourself or put a ceiling on your capabilities and you're forever learning normally what happens in your life. You meet mentors, normally it's around about four that you meet that impact on the way you think. Because how you think is who you are and who you become. And if you're limited in your thinking or exposure to other people, good or bad. Because life's average. Like it's. Life is good, average, bad. It's a heartbeat, right? Because if it's even, you got a flat line there. So you know, and you, if you look at your life as a whole, if you try and take the bad bits out, well, your life's not really big. The, you know, the, the things that trial you, make you who you are. So when I was 40, before that I just think, why me? You know, get another problem, why me? So my, my mindset, the epiphany was what's the learning?

Yeah, look I, I think maybe that's a amazing share, you know, really is like and you are always learning, do you know what I mean? And I believe that everything you do and things you learn from people every day is another good day that you can, you know, gain more insight and more knowledge and your experience and wisdom there is, you know, so valid and you know, it just proves the time that you've been in the industry, you know, with what you've been able to just be able to share with us today, you know and hopefully people watching this episode, you know, can take something away from that though. So mate, I really appreciate you coming on today's show there mate and sharing your wisdom, mate. So thanks very much Greg.

I greatly appreciate the kind invitation. Norm.

All right.

Thank you very much.

Pleasure. Thanks guys. Thanks for watching.