Origin of Norm Wales

I believe I was like year eight, year nine. I pretty much knew I was going to be a builder. The passion for building for me was obviously developed as a younger kid. We were always entering, exploring, going camping as a family. As I started becoming a younger teen and you start getting into Emmanuel Art, starting to perfect those hand skills and you're getting that self satisfaction out of, I guess, what you're creating. It's something that I've thoroughly enjoyed.

Hey guys, welcome to the Builder's Edge.

I'm Norm Wales from Norm Wales Constructions. Now for me, the whole purpose of this podcast here is to bring a little bit more awareness around the construction industry. I've been feeling for many, many years that there's not enough helpful information out there to support you guys to make the right choice. Now we are a smaller family independent building company and we're not here to build everybody's home. But we would definitely love to be able to work with you to facilitate your dream home. But if we don't build your new home, we want you to be able to make the right decision in choosing the right builder for you. So hopefully the information that I'm able to provide through this podcast can be informative and helpful that you can now create your dream home. So I hope you enjoy and thanks for watching.

Norm, I guess a lot of people don't necessarily know your background story. Maybe some people have watched the brand story video. But for those who may not know your story, how did, where did your passion for building come from?

Look, the passion for building for me was obviously developed as a younger kid.

We were always adventuring, exploring, going camping as a family and I guess being in the outdoors, you find yourself, you know, using your hands a lot and I guess using your hands and being outside, you know, you got that breath of fresh air. Like it's just, it's, you know, a fantastic thing to be a part of. And as I guess you get a little bit older, you start building cubby houses and forts and all little wonderful retreats that you come up with with your mates and the school holidays. But you know, that would have been the foundations where I look back on it there now. But you know, for me, as I started becoming a younger teen and you start getting into your manual arts and all those sorts of more niched areas and you know, you're starting to perfect those hand skills and you're getting that self satisfaction out of, I guess, what you're creating there. And it was, you know, really lucky for myself there that I was really early on I believe I was like year eight, year nine. I pretty much knew I was going to be a builder. I think very. For a very short window there, I thought, oh, look, I want to be a cabinet maker because, you know, always a big kid playing with Lego and Meccano sets and things and just take that to the next level. And I thought, oh, you know, cabinet maker's pretty cool. And I sort of realized once you sort of understood the differences of things because you're very young, you're very green, do you know, I mean. And I actually understood, oh, actually a cabinet maker is not a builder. It's a more of a niched trade. A builder does, you know, this or back then, you know, it's a carpenter. You know, you weren't really thinking builder, you're just thinking, oh, yeah, I'm going to get into building industry. And that was to be a carpenter there as such. And look, once I sort of started understanding what that was, and as I've been a younger teenager, you know, working on the farm, and you're always building something or making something there, it just naturally fell into place for me. And, you know, it's something that, you know, I've thoroughly enjoyed.

Was, was building something that ran in the family. Like, was this something your. Your father or was there a grandfather or an uncle or where did it sort of.

That it's come from?

Start from?

Yeah, look, honestly, no, it's never been anything that's been in the family there. Look, obviously my father was quite a cluey sort of person that sort of could adapt to anything and, you know, very handy. So is my pop. And like, I guess, you know, being around them at a younger age there, you sort of pick up on little skills and techniques of how to make something work, you know. But now look, I guess I've paid my own way there in the actual construction industry sector there. But, you know, it's something that I've thoroughly enjoyed. You know, like I've always said, whatever you do, you have to enjoy it. And you know, the day I stop, you know, enjoying it, you know, that's the day I'd pull the pin. But I personally could never see myself doing that because I'm. I've got to keep pretty stimulated and active and that building industry definitely does that for me because, you know, we don't just build a general house, you know, we build people's homes there and they're crafted uniquely to what they want, you know, specifically to their requirements. So every home we build is completely different. Like we've Never built the same house twice. So that there is almost like getting a brand new Meccano set, you know, and every single time you've got something new, you know, it's that kind of surprise, you know, what are you going to get today? And then, then you actually get to put that together and share that big picture and that journey with our customers there, you know, and, you know, it's great seeing our customers with a smile on their face and, you know, the tears of joy that we've completed something for them. But we get that same thrill and that same drive out of, you know, as they do. You know, it's. You know, as long as that, that drive and that passion is there, I'll always still be there doing that.

I mean, I guess a lot of people look at you at normalized constructions today and be like, wow, okay, you guys are doing quite a fair few builds per year. But take us back to just paint the picture for us super early days of normal construction or even before the name may have even been formed. What was some of those early projects? What did they look like?

Yeah, look, the early days, you know, when you're first starting up with new projects and look, you're very green, you know, I mean, you potentially, obviously, you know, you start with a carpenter's apprenticeship and, you know, you start getting to find your feet there. But when you start taking that next step, actually going out on your own, you know, a lot of people tend to sort of go down the path of just subcontracting to another builder. You know, it might do the odd little job. And for me, I guess that, you know, yet the old barbecue table and, you know, know, friends and family always wants, you know, a deck built or a bathroom done. And, you know, you start small, you know, you've got a crawl before you walk. And that's exactly what I did do there. But, you know, we definitely started to accelerate, you know, through those areas and started to develop a name for ourselves that the quality that we do deliver and the pride that we take in each and every project, you know, no matter what size that was and, you know, going back all those years, you know, like, you'd love to know what you know now, definitely, you know, because many, many things have changed there. But, you know, it's. It's just a stepping stone, you know, and, you know, starting with some of those smaller projects there and, you know, working through that and starting to understand the industry more as well, that you're growing with it. And I think if you're keeping your Finger on the pulse there and wanting to learn, you know, there's the score is the limit to where you can take yourself.

So what were you talk about stepping stones? What were some of those stepping stones for you? I mean obviously going out by yourself, then hiring your first few team members, like talk us through those, that those milestone progressions that you went through to where you are today.

Yeah, look, you know, it is stepping stones and you obviously start off wearing multiple hats. That's just what has to be done, you know. And when you eventually get to the point there that you start onboarding, you know, an apprentice or another tradie, it's definitely another chapter in itself there, you know, like that becomes with extra responsibilities and you know, pays and supers and you know, all these wonderful things that you've got to sort of now start surrounding yourself with that you have to do if you're going to be running a successful building company. And you know, as that journey continues to grow there, you know, you're not focused just on being a carpenter or a builder. You've got to also have the sense of how to run a professional building company. You know, it's a business as well. So there's so many foundations that you need to sort of keep chipping away at and keep implementing and upskilling yourself there to be able to put all those ingredients together to make that one thing really Hum.

So I guess today you, you're, you can strike the line in the, for balancing the business and the construction side of things. But I'm going to assume that it, it wasn't always like that.

No, look, definitely finding that balance between, you know, building, running a business, you know, family, friend time, it's definitely a challenge and it's something that myself personally, you're always going to be thinking that, you know, if you're not keeping your finger on that area there, like you can sort of find yourself getting lost, you know, or caught up into one of those fields and, and you know, you're forgetting the other fields, you know. So for me now I'm very mindful of those sorts of things and like for the construction company that we're operating and running there, I'm very focused on family first, you know, and that's just not for myself there. That's, you know, for all my staff, you know, supplies, contractors, you know, you've got to put, you know, that, that very high on a priority list and find that perfect balance there to have a successful business.

So when you ventured out, you know, normalized constructions, it's getting runs on the board. What made you decide to focus on becoming a custom home builder and what made you not go down the pathway of becoming a volume project builder?

Yeah, look, when I decided to take that leap there, I guess the drive for me was, you know, you're in control of your own destiny, you know, like, and you sort of want to be able to create those memories and that enjoyment with, you know, these customers that we build beautiful relationships with. But you know, when it came down to the exact direction I wanted to take, like, for me, I've got to be fairly stimulated. Like, I get bored very quickly and you know, I like to have fresh new things happening around me all the time. So going down the custom design avenue is by far not the most simplest approach. You know, becoming a high volume LEGO builder, you know, doing the same thing, replicating that same design. Look, it's great. It's a smarter business move, no doubt about it. You know, it's, you know, a really good approach if you sort of in it, you know, for the big picture and that's the sort of get ahead with the dollars and cents. But you know, for me it's not about that. You know, yes, we all gotta provide an income for our family and do stuff there, but you, you've gotta enjoy what you do. Most importantly and being a custom design builder and physically being able to craft something that is completely unique and one of a kind thing and to achieve, you know, these results for our customers and deliver their dream home to them, you know, it's a special moment and you know, they, they can proudly say along with us, no one else has at home, it's a one off, one of a kind build.

So how have you found that as you've scaled the team, scaled the company, how have you been able to maintain the quality? Because there's that narrative that as you scale bigger, you know, quality can drop.

Yeah, look for us in scaling and growing the business there, it's been something that we've been planning and doing for many, many years. But it's about finding the right people as well, you know, and for me, you can hire anybody, anyone can, you know, punch a keyboard or you know, swing a hammer, you know, and that's great. But for me, there is a level of standard that, that I will, you know, adhere to and I'm very particular with, you know, who we actually do engage. I'm very proud to say the team I have, you know, they're worth their weight in gold and some, you know, give them shirt off my Back any day. You know, like they are very highly skilled, motivated people, but you know, also extremely humble as well. But I think that's just the environment and the, the team that we have there that we all feed off each other and we're there for the same outcome for each other there, you know, and it becomes a win, win thing for everybody there.

So looking ahead, I mean, what are you guys currently building now? Between 10 to 15 sort of projects per year. Are you going to look to scale past that or what would the kind of goal be? Where's the sweet spot for you guys?

And then look for ourselves there. We're not looking at getting much bigger than we really already are, you know, like, you know, building that 10, 12, maybe 15 homes there a year, give or take. Like for us it comes down to really construction slots. Now we know what our limitations are, we know what we can deliver and we also know when to say no. I'm never going to say yes. There's something if I know I'm not going to be able to deliver to what the expectations are. So it's really important for us that we're extremely mindful and we keep our finger on the pulse there, knowing what our limitations are, what we can handle and take on there, you know, because every project's different. Like I said, every home we do is completely unique to the customer there. You know, we may build a Pacific home that could be equivalent to the next home, which is three or four times that, you know, so it's really about understanding what your limitations are, what you can facilitate. And when you say you're going to deliver something, you actually keep your word and deliver that there.

So moving, I guess, looking forward, how do you see sort of taking Norm Wales Constructions to the next level?

Look, taking NWC to the next level there, it's pretty much staying where we are, but just staying consistent with things there. Like for me, you know, I'm very proud of what we have achieved and what we have created there. And, and I know we got the formulas to make it work, you know, I mean, we've proven this time and time again, hands down, you know, and I say touch wood each time, but like we've never delivered a pro a product at all, you know, over time frame, ever, you know, so when we have a plan in place there, we stick with that there and, and you know, we're quite happy doing just what we do now, you know, like we're not trying to be the biggest, you know, the largest, largest builder out there, you know, we're not interested in becoming a high volume company that just you're going to be treated as another number lot. We love the relationships and the rapport that we, you know, create with our customers there. And you know, for us, you know, I think we got the perfect plan in place. Now we're just going to keep sticking with what we do. Right.

I guess, like looking back at you guys, testimonies, testimonials and a lot of your client case studies, a common thread is that the amount of times that you guys deliver a home earlier than expected, even through Covid, which is quite impressive.

Right?

What, what's the, what's the secret behind that? What, what's happening there? How are you guys able to consistently do that?

Look, you know, that's something we really, you know, pride ourselves on is delivering what we're going to do. You know, if we say we're going to do something, we do it. And look, there's many elements and things that can sort of really hinder that there. But you know, from the get go, like when we've got a signed contract in place there and it's real, we're building this project, I do a complete workflow schedule that I give to my customers now that gives them from the start to the finish and everything in between when they'll meet me, different trades, supplies and sort of, you know, all the milestones of the build, you know, and it, it helps them know what's happening next. They can plan when they actually are going to be moving in, but it holds us accountable as well, you know, and for us they're like, yes, sometimes things may fall a little bit behind, sometimes they're ahead of schedule there, there's so many moving parts, you know, in building a new home. But by having that transparency and that communication that they, they can see what we've planned. You know, if you have a plan in place, you can deliver that and succeed, you know. So you know, where that refined down to having a box of nails delivered to our jobs on a specific date time. Do you know what I mean? So that might be very simple and granular there, but it's every element that needs to make sure is in the right place there.

I mean, a question people might have listening to that is, I mean, were you always that meticulous or like, how did you get to a point where you were that systematic in your approach? Because I'm assuming that there are other builders who would wing that, who perhaps wouldn't be as transparent and as, as sequential as the way that you, you guys are operating like, how did you guys get to that point? Or from day one, were you guys that good?

Look, it's always room for improvement, you know, and I, I believe that's our biggest strength there, that we're always looking at ways to improve, you know. So, you know, yes, we have a fantastic process and a system in place there now. But I've always believed that you learn something new every day. It doesn't matter who that is, you know, you learn it from if it's someone young, someone old, you know, everyone's got wisdom, you know, and experience and life skills there. So for myself there, I've always had that, I guess, thirst and knowledge and, you know, wanting to improve myself and, and always, you know, not settle for second best or, okay, now, now it's good, you know, that she'll be right sort of thing. Like it's a matter of always having that, that point that you're never in that your comfort zone, you know, you always got to keep pushing yourself that little bit further. And for me, you know, it's about my word. Like, my word is something that someone can never, ever take away from me. You know, it's. I guess I'm pretty old school still that a handshake, A handshake, you know, like if you shake someone's hand and say you're going to do something, you do it. You know, that's just an honorable thing. And they're things that can never be taken away from you, you know, so if you know, you have simple things that you live by there, and then you start working on structures and systems and implementing these things there, it doesn't just help you, but it helps everyone around you as well. And everyone wants to be able to enjoy going to work. So I'm a big believer working smarter, not harder. And, you know, that comes through great communication and, you know, continual improvement.

You, you say your word is your word. You know that that's a reflection of your values.

Where do you think those values came from?

Look, you know, I guess it's your upbringing, isn't it? Like, you know, my family there, like, we've always, I guess, been battlers, I guess you can say. Like, we've never had anything given to us there. So you tend to appreciate the, the simple things as well. And you know, like for me, you know, if you can sit there and tell someone you're going to do something and then you deliver that there, that's just an honorable, respectful thing to do. Do you know, there's no point Telling someone something that is going to be incorrect or, you know, under delivering something, you know, it's a, it's a start to setting up a bad experience for everybody involved. You know, I think if you can just be transparent, you know, openly communicate with people there, it's, it's fun and enjoyable. It really is. You know, it's a fantastic experience there. If people can sort of, you know, be a little bit more humble about stuff there and don't safeguard themselves and just open up a bit and enjoy it.

Thinking back to early days, NWC or even before that, can you, can you think of any moments now that.

Shape the way that you.

Became and like shape the way that you started to develop who you are today?

Look, you know, been in the industry for so long now, but you know, going on 28 years there, you are always been shaped and molded, I guess as you grow and mature as a person, the people you surround yourself with, you know, life challenges and changes, you know, you. Yeah, obviously I start off very young, you know, and I'll be the first person to admit that, you know, I would have been green in many areas, you know, but one thing that probably hasn't ever changed for myself there is the, that interest to always improve and I guess that thirst of wanting to push things further and always, you know, do something a little bit different, a little bit left field that, you know, others might find a bit too hard. Like I, I find I get a bit of a kick out of that. I guess they like to set unique challenges for myself and sometimes I probably set them. I don't even know I do that. I just like to sort of push the envelope there a little bit to do something different, you know. And yeah, look, it's. For me, I think, you know, over the years as you do mature and you know, you start seeing other opportunities I guess there as well. And you know, you, you really want to be able to share that with the people around you. Obviously, you know, having a family and, and you know, going down that path as well. But that definitely makes you shift and rethink and reevaluate life and you know, where things can take you and what you should be doing and prioritizing stuff there as well. So, yeah, for me it's just about finding that balance there really and just enjoying every day and taking the next one as it comes.

Speaking of balance, you recently completed the Kokoda Trail.

I did, yes, I did.

Tell us about that because that, that's quite a interesting feat considering that you just had both your Knees operated on.

Yeah, look.

That, that is something special to me to be honest. It's something that I've been wanting to do for over 20 years, since I was at school, to be honest. Meant to do it with a good mate of mine and you sort of always put things back, oh, next year I will do it this time or you know, put it off. Yeah, yeah, it does, it gets put off and you know, there's always roadblocks and hurdles in life.

And then it would have been a few years ago that we sort of made decision, a topic come up and I thought, well, let's do this. Like I was all in. I think it was actually my niece and that was talking about doing it and I said I'm in. You know, like, didn't have to ask me twice. And there was a handful of us and being three towards the end. But yeah, look, I'd made a commitment that I was going to do that and obviously being pretty active with sports and things and over all the years a bit of wear and tear in the body, especially through, you know, the construction industry, it takes its toll on your body as well. I, I did have to get, go get my knees looked at and that was very close to me. Still happened to go do the trek there and I, I still was adamant I was gonna do it.

Well, how severe was the surgery? Like how severe was the sort of maybe the post op actually.

Yeah, look, it wasn't major surgery but it's bothly, you know, still new operations there that needed time to re. Recruit, recover from and the rehabilitation time was pretty much smack on the time that I was actually going to Kokota and I was very fortunate to do that actually for Anzac Day itself. So if I was going to do it, I was going to do it for a special time because I, I really truly believe any, you know, true blooded Aussie should, should really do that. It's, it's a very, very humbling experience. It's a, it's a beautiful place actually.

Tell us about it because the way that you described it to us the other week when we're filming, like it was, it's crazy. Like it's, it's a, it's. I didn't realize how intense it actually is.

Yeah, look, it's, it's a challenge. You know.

It'S obviously weather conditions, you know, can definitely change that from being, you know, very wet and muddy to very hot, but I think it's just one of those things that you, it helps you take that backwards step a little bit. And just really reflect upon, you know, what you've done, why you're here, you know, and like I said, it's very humbling. Like it's something that, you know, some people say, you know, that it's easy, some people might say it's hard, you know, but everybody is on a different journey there in themselves. You know, you sort of will have physical mental challenges, but you push yourself through different barriers there. And to get to that day each and every day, it's very rewarding.

How many days is the, the actual trek? Like how many days do you guys on camp and how many like and how long is it from morning to night? How, how far?

Yeah, so there's many different ways this can be done. Like people do, you know.

They actually run it and they get it done like a day, you know, so. But there's many different paths and things to that. But for ourselves, we done this over like a nine, ten day sort of stint. You're pretty much on the go all day. You know, you sort of be packs on, you know, just after breakfast, you know, so it could be seven, eight o' clock and you could be walking through to the night. Depends on the sort of day that you had. But generally speaking, if you said you got in about that, you know, four or five o' clock was pretty normal there.

You know, so the range it might have been, you know, give or take a 14km or so a day. But it's just the terrain and the stuff you're going through and I, I also probably made it a little bit harder for myself because I had another personal challenge that I, I wanted to do the whole thing with a full kit. And when, I mean a full kit, like a full backpack. So it was quite heavily loaded.

What's that, like 20, 10 kilos? 15.

I was sitting around at 23 to 27 kilos. So it was probably a bit on the heavy side. There's four of us that actually done full kit like that. You know, looking back on it probably wasn't the, the smartest thing to be dealing with two, you know, under strength knees. But it was something that I, I really wanted to do probably for my own, you know, well, being itself that, you know, the guys that went over there and served and you know, done what they've done for our country there, they didn't do it easy. And I, I didn't want to make it easy myself either. Like there's definitely no shortcuts over there, you know, to go over there and enjoy it more. Maybe not with the pack on, you know, and a bit of a vest and a water bottle is a, you know, a better way if you're looking at doing it. So, you know, you don't definitely have to do it the way I've done it there. But I wanted to be hard and it was hard, you know, it really was, but very, very rewarding and I'd literally go back there again. I really would. You know, it's something that I highly do recommend sort of doing and you know, it's something that will stay with me forever.

Yeah, well, I think it's amazing. It's actually quite inspiration. When you told me, I was like, wow, that's, that's, that's super impressive. So I think absolute hats off to you on that one. And just jumping back to the building industry, just something for aspiring builders or even aspiring entrepreneurs, you know, because the, the principles that you operate on apply outside of the construction industry as well. But what advice would you give to aspiring builders or aspiring entrepreneurs?

Look, I'm always out there trying to help anyone that's wanting the advice with stepping into becoming a builder and not necessarily just a builder. Like there's many trades out there that I'm always trying to help facilitate growth or the understanding of. You know, you may be a fantastic trade in what field you're in there, but you also need to sort of start learning the behind the scenes of running a business and, and you know, merging all that together, you know, like the advice like I'd give anyone in the construction industry and especially builders and that there is, you know, if it really is a dream and I purely really want it, like you've got to be hungry for it. Like it's not going to be easy, you know, like. But if you truly want it, stick with it there. But be willing to put the hard work in and, and there's going to be sacrifices. There really, really will be, especially if you want to be successful and do it well. But you know, on the flip of that there, knowing that you don't have to be alone, like I guess in the early days they're like, I've learned the hard way. I really have you done it by yourself there.

You know, there are people out there like myself that are happy to, you know, being here. You know, there's many good people in the industry. It doesn't even have to be a Pacific builder. Could be another fellow Tradie or someone else, you know, or could be a completely different sector. You know, it could be a mechanic, you know, they've Been very successful or something, you know, reach out to those people and talk with them, you know, dive in a bit deeper and unfold, you know, all those little things that have been, you know, I guess their concerns and problems over here. So you can sort of maybe try debug your steps and you know, have a good plan, put things into motion, you know, but don't be scared to ask for help, you know, like it's really important because it is a very lonely place there and there's so many moving parts, you know, that it can become very overwhelming, you know, where have.

You gone to seek help?

Look for myself, it's always been a bit of just keep on lacing up, I won't lie, you know, but I'd say probably over the last five to, you know, 10 years there, I guess as you grow and mature and develop, I guess yourself there, you start understanding that you need to start having conversation with fellow, you know, workers and people in the industry or you know, there's many affiliations out there now that you can sort of reach out to. So you know, now is you've got many more opportunities and support networks and that around you to sort of help there. But you've also don't be scared in asking for help. That's probably the biggest takeaway because a lot of people are very proud, you know, and a lot of people don't want to share all the information either. So you know, you've got to find yourself in that right networking group there that you feel comfortable with. It could just be, you know, your local chambers, you know, could just be as I said and you know, it could be your uncle, you know, it could be a mum and dad that's ran a business. Anyone that you can sort of relate to and connect with most importantly. But yeah, there's some fantastic affiliations and that out there that you can take multiple leaps and bounds for that if you want to network with the right like minded people.

And I guess on the flip side of that, what would you say would some of the consequences be of perhaps not asking for help or perhaps having the mentality that well I'm good, I know what I'm doing, I'll just keep plowing forward.

Yeah, look, we, we can all sort of get a bit naive and blind, you know, we think we're doing really well and that's all we have to do and we just rest on our morals a little bit there. But you know, the industry, it changes very quickly, you know, and it's important that you're keeping that finger on the pulse there and understanding that you might have something good today, next week, a year later, it's irrelevant, you know, so you've got to sort of be still giving yourself time to work in the actual business there too and you know, implementing new fresh ideas and just making sure things are still staying relevant to what you're specifically doing. Because everybody's going to do something a little bit different, that there is no real right or wrong way. You've just got to find the right processes that you know are going to be best suited to yourself.

So looking forward.

What'S normal constructions, moving towards what's the big, what's the big.

Thing look moving forward for NWC there, it's just about having that safety and security around with what we've already done and making sure that everybody that's involved under that umbrella, you know, benefits from that as well. You know, it's. It's far bigger than just me, you know, like I'm just a piece of that puzzle there. There's so many different pieces that are now and you know, for me, for my own satisfaction there, I really, truly would like to see everyone involved in that. They really benefit from that there and get their own little takeaways and their own little goals achieved, you know, so it's a great thing to be able to sort of be in a position there to sort of help and support, you know, people around you.

Have you started having that though? Like, I'm assuming as you've scaled, you've been able to see some of the team have those wins and have those benefits. What, what would be an example of that?

Yeah, look, as I said, I'm very fortunate with the team that I have there and you know, to see the growth over, you know, some of them over the years because like, you know, so someone been with us for quite a long time and to see how they've grown and matured, you sort of have a bit of aha moment yourself a bit because I guess you thought, well, hey, I was there once upon a time too. And you into. See that growth, that independence there, you know, it's really, really rewarding. You know, it actually it's a, it's a real proud moment to sort of, you know, be a part of the.

Love it. Well, I think on that note, I think it's time for us to grab the get to know your norm jar. So we've got this jar and this is, I guess this could be the builder's edge jar where it's. We've got a whole bunch of questions that are completely different and unique and creative, and we're gonna get to see how Norm tackles some pretty unique questions. So do you wanna. Actually, I'll read it out there. Let's see how we go.

This is literally. Okay, so, Norm, are you ready?

Okay, what do you want?

So if you could. If you could dedicate your life to solving one global issue, what would it be? And why?

Solving one global issue. Okay, look, I think for me there. And it's probably more of a. Something I'm interested in is like, I love my food, so it'd have to be, obviously, the. The hunger in the world. Okay. So I think if you could. Yeah. Make sure everyone's fed, you know, and healthy, you know, it'd be a much happier place.

Yeah, so the. The world hunger problem.

Yeah, world hunger for me. But I said it's a close to home because I love my food, mate, so. Yeah, that's a good one. Cheers.

Well, on that note, thanks for your wisdom, Norm. Thanks for your insights. And until the next time, on the Builder's Edge.

Right? Thanks, guys.

Thank you.

It.