Does Airbnb Superhost status actually make a difference?

Live, I think so. Uh, and if you can hear me, then let me know. We are the Secret Property Club. We are on another live today, this time all about the Secret Property Club and serviced accommodation. We have Heidi Mobbs and Marja Kowiak with us, both experts in serviced accommodation. And to be honest with you, I'm probably the newbie here when it comes to serviced accommodation because I only have one property that I manage myself. So I'm very, very interested in learning all these tips that we have here today. Before you start, uh, let me just say that if you're watching us for the first time, you can find us on Spotify and also at secretpropertyclub.com. Um, Marja, welcome to The Secret Property Club. It's the first time that we have you on, so I'm very curious to learn a little bit more about you.

Absolutely. Well, thank you for having me, both Heidi and David. Welcome everyone. I'm very excited to be here and, you know, share my, as I said, the good, the bad, and the ugly about the service accommodation and share my experience with some, you know, fellow investors or people who are actually looking to start service accommodation. It's not as easy as it sounds, so, but we'll go into that. So yeah, that's what I've been doing. I've got my service accommodation in Coventry, been running it for the past few years. Self-manage. I tried management companies, but somehow when I talked to them, they didn't convince me to give my property to them. So I decided to sort of learn it myself through making mistakes along the way. But, you know, that's— that helped me a lot and shaped me and got me to where I am today.

So a lot of the times we learn more to some of our mistakes than actually when everything is easy and smooth, right?

Absolutely. I think now after the time, I do appreciate the journey, even though at the time it was really hard and difficult and, you know, there was stress, tears, and a lot going on. But yeah, from a perspective, it was a good lesson for sure.

Heidi, you agree? Everything that we do, service accommodation or other property strategies, it is a little bit of a roller coaster of emotions.

Yeah, and I remember when I first got Superhost status, and I think I've had it once, and someone went, oh well, that won't last long, you wait. And I thought, what a bastard. I'd swear a bit, sorry. Um, and it's true, I haven't got it back because— and I think the people who have had Superhost don't have enough problems go wrong for them. Potentially they need more problems.

Yes, potentially. To be honest with you, most of the bookings that I get And I say over 90% are actually Booking.com, not Airbnb. So I don't know nothing about Superhost. I'm curious to learn more about it. But Marja, tell me what actually brought you to service accommodation and not other strategies.

So I was actually doing, you know, classical buy-to-let rental, but I've actually got on the deal sourcing course and actually that's when sort of it was a bit of an eye-opener about the properties, different strategies, what's the value available, you know, the BRRRs, strategy HMOs and everything in between. And I sort of started looking at it a bit more. I started to go to more sort of networking, property-related networking events, talking to different people and just see potential maybe where I did not see it before. And, you know, I always love like talking to people and the service and communication side of things. And I think I would be really good with like, you know, liaising with people, speaking of like 3 languages. I think that would be a bonus. And also what really drew me as well is that is the cash flow, which is much higher than a standard buy-to-let, which, let's be honest, it is a drive to do it as well. And I did have mixed feelings about it because, first of all, will I make it happen if I work full-time? Will I still got my job, right? Second of all, what happen if I've got the guests that will destroy my property? But at the same time, I thought, well, you can have a tenant that will destroy your property as well. So You know, I just thought, let's just give it a go and try something different. If it doesn't work, you can always go back to traditional buy-to-let or try other strategies. So I think going into some education and seeing it and knowledge from other people and investors, like, opened my eyes, and I just became more curious. What is it about? Let's see if I can get involved.

Yeah, I can actually Just give a little plug on what you just said, because a few years ago, maybe 18 months ago, something like that, just, um, when I was still doing training on property with Progressive Property, uh, I had an opportunity because one of my properties, a buy-to-let, it was actually vacant, and I had somebody say, well, I will rent it from you. And I will do serviced accommodation on it. And I said at the time, that was one of my worries— people will destroy the property because I still didn't have my serviced accommodation. It's not a strategy that I loved. And guess what happened? I got tenants on an AST, normal buy-to-let property, very well, you know, rental really good. It was above market rent prices. And some months later, they tried to turn that property into a cannabis farm. Oh, I was like, well, this can go wrong, right? So talking about challenges, exactly, you know, challenges will happen in any strategy that you do when it comes to property. But I'm curious to know about some of the challenges that you faced.

Actually.

Yeah, how long have we got? I think there were many challenges, but I think the sort of very first few I came across were even during initial setup when I was obviously furnishing the property. And you both run it, so you know it has to be sort of, you know, furnished in slightly different than a traditional buy-to-let, you know, maybe more decorations, more little bits and pieces. And I think the 3 things that could have gone wrong, they've gone wrong in one day. So my furniture was delivered to a wrong address. Instead of the double bed, they delivered 2 single beds, and they delivered about 10 hours late. So, and I had no sofa because the supplier I had agreed like sofa delivery literally just said, sorry, we actually, the sofa did not arrive from the supplier, we cannot deliver. And I was like, oh great. And you know, that was like a Normally I just got upset or angry because the things did not go to plan, but that was a great lesson for me. Just be patient, okay? It's not the end of the world. You will launch it a week later, right? So just chill out, relax, and do, like, you know, try to work it out. What can you do? Obviously being in the UK is very difficult to get a sofa that you can have delivered like within a week, because normally if you go to the shop, it's at least 12 weeks wait, right? The online suppliers let me down, but I managed to find it. The second challenge was photographer. So obviously everyone keeps telling me, yeah, you have to go professional, etc. But I thought, okay, well, I will ask first of all if someone within my circle is actually doing photography. And it seems like my husband's colleague or ex-colleague said, oh yeah, I do photography, that's fine, I can go and do it. I said, oh, that's fine, I will pay you, you know, I was very proactive. He said, yeah, sure, great. Well, it didn't turn out to be a good choice, and I quickly realized that pay cheap means pay twice. Because with the best intentions in the world and the time he spent, the photos just did not make justice to the place I prepared. And I think it was actually a put-off from the first couple of bookings, which was the next challenge, which was like the lack of bookings, which again, you know, you read these articles or you read this, you are on these Facebook groups and saying, "Oh, I literally got a booking 2 hours after I launched." And I was like, "Oh great, I'm doing something wrong then," because, you know, a few days passed and it was radio silence. And that's when I obviously started to get nervous and look into things. And, you know, a lot of people that were already in the industry saying, yeah, the photos are not good, you do have to change them. And I did, and it was the best decision I could have made at the time. Obviously cost me twice, paying a friend and a photographer, but the difference was huge. And that obviously then turned into the actual bookings and The challenge I quickly realized then, it's just adding a property on Airbnb or Booking.com is just not enough. And I think nowadays it's probably even more difficult with the number of increasing people that are doing this strategy. Just having regular property will not, will not do it justice. It does have to have— the photos are absolutely crucial, and the first few are absolute must, but also it's a bit more to it, which I think we'll discuss a bit later in our conversation. And I probably will leave it at that, but yeah, these were the sort of main challenges that I faced very early on, which were literally like, am I doing the right thing? I said to myself, Marja, it's still time. You can still take a step back, you know, you can quit. Yeah. You don't have to do it, but I thought, that's it. I said, hey, let's continue and let's just see what comes out of it.

100%. Yes. Heidi, how many times have you wanted to quit?

Every other hour. I'm all right at the minute actually, but I set up, I set up for other people and I've got some incredible customers. But then I've also had customers I've walked away from because they've been a massive headache. And one of the arguments I repeatedly have with challenging people is, shall I get professional pictures? I went, why would you buy a house, spend all that money on everything, and not spend £350 on professional pictures? And I've had like, not arguments because I'm not that argumentative, but I'll get my friend to do it, I'll take them. And I'm like, no, piss off.

I've got iPhone 18, there will be great quality.

No, to be fair, I take, I take the first round of dummy pictures if I can't line up. Yeah, like my mate does all my photography, but he is a professional. Um, if I can't line him up when I need him, I'll take the dummy pictures, list the property, get some inquiries going, and then I put him in. And it makes a world of difference. People, should I do it? I'm like, yes. Yes, you're doing it, you're doing it, and then I'm going to charge you.

And that's— I totally agree with you, Heidi. And I think what's important to say, it is investment, okay? It's obvious that at the time you set up, it's a lot of, you know, expenditure just piling up and piling up. But I think this is one of the investments that you definitely have to make. And if the photos are great, you make this investment, if you think about it, your property will book for 2 nights or 3 nights or less, and it actually— you will get this money back.

So Exactly, exactly.

I totally agree with both of you on that. And one thing that you said, you mentioned iPhone 18, uh, and that's, that's the difference of having professional pictures or pictures taken by you on your phone. A professional, it's not about how many pixels are in that picture, is about the lighting, is about the angle, is about the detail, is about, you know, the perspective that you use. Photographers have different ideas of what the average Joe will have when it comes to take photography, especially of a property. You can be great when you go on holidays and take pictures of your kids, but taking pictures of properties, it's not the same thing, isn't it? And having good, a good listing, uh, can definitely help you have people also paying more for it potentially because, oh, I want to be on that property, you know, is an extra £15 a night, but it's going to be worth it. And with that said, it's actually a good transition to talk a little bit about Airbnb. And I told you at the beginning, I knew nothing about being a Superhost because most of my business comes from Booking.com or direct repeated customers. So Marjo, maybe you can tell me more about what is being a Superhost.

For me, it's quite opposite. Majority of my bookings actually is Airbnb rather than Booking.com. I personally not a big fan of Booking.com platform and usage itself, maybe that's why. But yeah, going to Superhost, obviously it's an award or status that Airbnb platform gives to hosts that deliver consistently excellent stays, got very good reviews, respond quickly, have no cancellation rates, no complaints. Etc. And I must be honest, when I first started, that was like my goal. I want to get to that, you know, I want to be there, I want to be, I want to be the Superhost, I want to have this on my profile because I heard so much about it. And you know, it was a bit of like a prestige, right? Your listing will be, will be seen. And I was ecstatic when I got it. But you know what, actually, did it change a lot? Not really. When I think about it now, long term, Did I suddenly get overflow of inquiries? No, the life just continued. Yes, I did have a badge, I can put it on my Facebook and whatever, but actually it didn't make a huge difference. And then I realized that actually I got a new perspective on it. What's important for me as being a Superhost is not the badge or award that you get from X platform or Y platform. It's about, you know, consistent level of inquiries and reservations. Is the guest experience that is important. And the actual guest, it's like, you know, I always wish myself and other hosts guests that are respectful, that they treat your property the way they would treat their own home, and the guests that pay on time and, you know, and feel like at home. So that's for me what's important now. And, you know, being sort of a Superhost, not necessarily having a badge or something that you you know, define you. But I don't think that actually defines you. You can be a Superhost without having a badge from Airbnb.

I am a Superhost.

Yes, you are.

Well, I do have good reviews on Booking.com. But so for you, it's almost like a validation for you. Yes, we are consistently having good customer service. Everyone's happy. The guests are happy. For the guests, if you have that badge on Airbnb, it might just give them also the reassurance that, okay, I can— everything is going to go smooth during my stay.

It's very good for the guests. Obviously, when you start, you literally have like no reviews, no, you know, and obviously you do want to get those reviews quite quickly because obviously that's what will drive— let's be honest, nowadays, whenever we go, we always look at reviews. At least I do. You go to restaurant, you check it. If you go somewhere, you check it, right? So that's what a lot of us do at the moment. So I think they're hugely important, the actual reviews. And you know, that's what I was striving for it. And I'm sure there are guests that will maybe look or even filter only that they will, oh, I will only book with Superhost, for example. But I think sometimes you can still have high reviews, and I think many hosts do comment that some of the review you know, might be a bit unfair when it comes to how they calculated. You can basically lose the Superhost status with just one bad review or one—

it's not that as well. I found, because we lost Superhost and never got it back based upon, I think, because there's only 4 things to look for: responsive, we get back to them within minutes sometimes, cancellation rates, that's not on us if someone then can't afford a holiday in the couplet or they're ill or whatever. It's based upon those things. But we, um, I like have a look at the data and stuff on ours. We've had a person book with us twice, two different property— no, they're sorry, the same property two different times, and they gave us two different reviews. And we was like, it's the same, it's the same property, it's the same person. And then we've had another one this week where we had a 1-star, uh, review on Booking.com, which is horrendous, based upon the neighbor's dog barking. But what that's done is it's, it's brung the cleanliness down of the property, which had nothing to do with the review. Yeah, so it had nothing to do with the review. So they've gone, say for example, lovely property, lovely host, um, lovely location, whatever, give us a 1-star review, but it weirdly drags the cleanliness down and the, and the host. And we was like, how?

What?

So for us, it's the reviews are relevant but also ridiculous at the same time.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, the reviews are relevant, isn't it? Because when it comes to serviced accommodation, in my opinion, you can almost make or break your business if you have some terrible reviews talking about, I don't know, pest control, they found a whatever, you know, at the property. If I see something like that when I book Booking.com, I'm not going to go to that property, right? So it can really, really, really affect.

I'm a little bit— yeah, but at the same time, if I would see that, you know, a complaint because the dog has barked and then Hybeach responds to it, that obviously I think, okay, well, that's a bit of an unreasonable review. The place is still lovely, so I will still go. Yeah. Because that's not something you can influence, or, you know, it's not your property effectively. You can't influence what's happening outside, you know what I mean?

So yeah, I'm a little bit tight as well. Although I'm a host myself, I've stayed in some very questionable places because it's cheap. So for— so I'm like, I think I'm more of a traditional guest on Airbnb because me, my husband, and my two kids stayed in a room in Blackpool. Now if you've been to Blackpool—

I've been, but I've not stayed there.

I would— no, I wouldn't recommend. Anyway, my kids used to dance in Blackpool all the time, so we was there all the time, and I got a room, I think, £50 for all 4 of us for one night, and it was the worst room I've ever stayed in. And I've volunteered in slums in Uganda, genuinely, which was better because this room was full of damp, the bed was disgusting, and I didn't— but for me, I was like, I need the cheapest stay because I'm not paying £300 for one night. I'm just not doing it. So for me, I look at the reviews pragmatically as well because I'm like If it was £300, I'd want it perfect, but I paid £50. So again, I'm more realistic with the costs I'm going for. So yeah, I'm not one of them guests.

Yeah, I think it really varies on who is the guest. You know, there's so many different types of guests. Um, and I have a question before we move on to the next, you know, um, which is, Marja, you said most business comes from Airbnb rather than Booking.com. What is your regular guest? Who is your type of guest? Are they contractors? Are they holidaymakers, families?

Who are they?

So that has changed and evolved. So Coventry being in West Midlands, obviously it's not very touristic places that will, you know, will be seasonal like seaside, etc. But it has got two universities, so many of my guests were people who were visiting either their families at university but I also had some amazing actors that came to perform a show in a theatre, which was amazing actually. I got an invite for them on the show as well, which was great. So it was a mixture of family and friends, and then eventually to some local contractors and businesses coming to do projects in the area. So it was a bit of a— yeah, yeah.

Okay.

I think once I started and, you know, there were more and more reviews, obviously that's where sort of the visibility has increased and more and more people are coming. A lot, a lot, there were also guests that were coming to visit family and friends in the area and they just needed to stay for a couple of nights. So, okay.

I would say the reason I asked, the reason I asked is because I had this idea that contractors, that Airbnb would have a lot more holidaymakers and families than contractors and Booking.com would have probably a bit of everything. That's the idea I have. I don't know why.

It depends who the admin is booking it. So for example, I've shot myself in the foot, but positively. So we, we've just set up a new one, um, not even the color scheme I wanted. My decorator got the color wrong anyway, um, but we had one person. So to get an average of a review, you need 3 to get an average. We got a booking, nice one. The second booking was a direct booking, so we converted them from a direct booking for 5 months. And we've not got the professional pictures done yet. So that's great for us, but when they eventually leave in August, that is a new booking with only one review. So it hasn't got even on the algorithms yet.

So in 5 months, exactly.

Yeah, yeah. So again, that won't be at the top of the listing. So then we're effectively— although we've got something positive, we've then got to optimize the listing again in 5 months to boost it up the page.

Yeah, that makes sense.

But we find as well, I don't know, obviously to go off on a tangent on your question, we have to optimize the listings almost daily to boost the algorithms to get the bookings. And then, I don't know if I'm jumping the gun here, you can actually do the listing. So like between 0 and 7 days, you'll accept 2-night booking. Within 0 to 14 days, you'll want a 5-day booking. And after that, it's a 7-night booking. And that's how you get your contractors. So Although you're thinking holidaymakers might go on Airbnb and contractors won't, it depends. So if they're looking for a stay over 28 days, your listing might not come up depending on how you optimize it.

Is that strategy that you use as well, Marja?

I'm glad you've mentioned the, the keyword optimize your listing, and that was another challenge. And when I started, I keep saying this, optimize your listing, and it's like, what does it mean? What's even that? We did a lot Another challenge was the knowledge gap, which obviously, you know, then I had to go and educate myself even more what that really means. I think it's very important what Heidi said, is that I think in order to attract your client you want to work with, is the right calendar setup on the minimum 5, 7 nights, etc. Because if you want to attract contractors, you can't— if you're going to open it for 2 nights, 3 nights booking and they're looking for 1 week stay, and you've got a couple of stays in between, your listing will not come up because you've already got these little bookings here and there, so it won't even show up when they look. So it is the right calendar setup and also the right description, because many, very often, as you said, it might be the admin person booking it, they don't have the time to scroll through a very, very long list of your description.

They don't really care. Yeah.

Set up cozy, perfect, they don't How many beds? What's there? Is there parking? What's the location? Jobs are good and pictures are good. I'm sending my crew there. So it really depends who is your client you want to work with.

And yeah, as Heidi said, I never even thought of that, that the admin doesn't really care. You know, they will just pick whatever comes up as long as it matches the specification for what they need. You know, they have budget.

Yes.

That makes total sense. I work with a company that has, thousands of engineers every day on the roads. And sometimes I ask the question in terms of their booking, but because it's— they just— that's not a company for us because they only need one night here, one night there. It's just because the engineer is staying there, but they are quick jobs. But I am always curious of how they operate.

Well, there are many as well that will leave it to the actual, you know, person to book it. There are many companies that they're responsible for booking it themselves.

Yeah, and it depends on how cheap— like, we've had contractors come through on SpareRoom, um, rather than— yeah, I live in a really odd place where it's North Lincolnshire, but it also covers like Yorkshire. So I'm in that area, and we're right on the coast. So we've obviously got the oil rigs, the wind turbines, the oil refineries, loads of bloody industrial work going on, factories, fish, which is good. Yeah, and then they'll go, right, you're on a job for 9 months, um, you've got a budget for your accommodation. And we've had lads genuinely like, have you got any HMO rooms? Because that is cheaper, like £300, like £400 a month. Yeah, rather than £2,500. So we've got both options. So they'll come through on spare room and I'll convert them into a tenant. Yeah, or we'll come, we'll go, right, I've got 10 lads, right, we'll put you in 2 or 3 houses. So and we try and meet it. But then we've had them. I had a company come to me once and I've like blacklisted them out of my mind. There was like, oh, the contractors, they only want to pay £9 per person per night. I went, you taking the piss?

I beg your pardon?

I went, don't even ring me anymore. I said, you're taking the piss. And David Oliveira, you tagged me in something the other day and I was like, it's that fucking person.

You shouldn't have said that. You should have put a comment on it.

I can't publicly shout at people. Um, yeah, but, and they are struggling to find the accommodation because I've seen them in about 11 groups this week and I'm like, it's because you don't pay, yeah, in a reasonable price.

But that, that's just outrageous. Haven't had that before. I'm gonna say I've heard about some pretty low rates but never £9 per person.

Genuinely, genuinely laughed on the phone because I said, I said, I know you're taking commission, but I said, you must be taking more commission than you're willing to pay person who has the house.

Yeah, no, that's crazy. That's crazy. Well, anyway, going back again to a little bit of Airbnb and being a Superhost, if I— I told you I need to learn about it, so I want some tips of if I'm starting out. And you talk— you said about optimizing the listing, so I suppose that will bring me more viewings. But there any other tips that will help me become a Superhost? Because now I want to be a Superhost too.

What I would say is communication is— I think communication with the guests is very important, and I think it starts really from the first message. What I would say is, what I've learned is don't overflow your guests with unnecessary information at the start. If you send them the details about safe code, Wi-Fi code, parking, everything in your first message, I can guarantee you, you will have this question asked 3 more times at least further down the booking, especially if they book in advance. So I've sort of learned space out the information you give them, communicate with them from obviously the first message. There's an option to set it up from messages, etc., but do it in stages. Just give them information as they need it and when they need it. And I would say again, some people say don't do it. That's what I always do and did, and it worked for me. I always ask for 5-star reviews. Unless I knew something went terribly wrong. And I thought, I have nothing to lose. But I think psychologically, if you're going to ask for it, it puts their mind on it, I need to give them 5 stars. And I also made them aware of what that really means, because I think for many people when they travel, they mean, oh, 3 stars is still good, right? Which obviously Airbnb is very specific about the star review, and actually 3 is not good enough for them. So I always ask in my message when I ask them for review, 'Can I have 5 stars?' I think if they don't like it, they say, 'Suck it, I'm not gonna leave it.' And what I would say also, respond to every review, even if it is a negative one, because always to show your perspective, going to what Heidi said earlier about, you know, dog barking. And I would say, if you respond to negative review, give yourself some time. Don't do it when you get it, because obviously you might be nervous, you might be saying, obviously, you know, 'They are ridiculous, this is a crazy thing what they've mentioned.' But give yourself some time, put emotion aside, and then do some, I would say, polite and diplomatic reviews. So when someone else comes to view it, they will understand perhaps the guest was maybe not, you know, at fault, or maybe didn't appreciate certain things. But also what I've noticed, maybe not from— sometimes from maybe bad reviews, or sometimes on Airbnb, guests got an option they can send you a private message on top of the review. And actually, a couple of times they did send me a private message, and I really benefited from it. One of them was very nice, oh, would be great if you can maybe have full-size mirror in a bedroom. And I said, oh, actually I thought about it when I was setting it up, it is a great idea. And I thought, you know, it's a very small detail for me to add and it made a difference for the next guest. So, you know, sometimes you can learn from those reviews as well. So I thought that's quite important. And also what I would say, check and inspect your properties yourself if you can regularly. It's great you've got a team in place, but I think we all got our standards, as you said, David. Sometimes I think nowadays guests are also becoming more and more demanding, and there are unfortunately, there are some guests that will try to take advantage of us, and you know, they will stay at our property and then say, oh, actually I didn't like whatever, spider in the corner, can I get a refund? I honestly, I read these stories and I'm like, this is outrageous, but I think it's getting to a ridiculous point with some of them. Make sure that literally, you know, in this, in this business, unfortunately, a little ball of dust might be a deal breaker, okay? It can actually land a 1-star review for you. So that's why I always say inspect regularly. If you've got obviously team in place, great, but I also say check up on them if the standard has not, haven't slipped, because I think the cleanliness is probably the top of like the most important things as well.

What I've found as well, um, there's— and this is awful, and this happens a lot. I've been quite a few hosts there's guests that will go out of their way to try and get a refund regardless, even if they're having a great time. And we've sort of picked up on it, and we've got like a process where we have a look and we, we then flag it up to Booking.com or Airbnb straight away and go, look, we know they're trying to get a refund. So they'll check in, they'll book for 4 days or a week or whatever, they'll pay a great price for that week, and then they'll start moaning about trivial little things, or like the heating's not working. Yes, it is. The internet's not strong. Yes, it is.

And we—

you have to evidence at every point that there's a teaspoon missing, there's a, there's a cushion out of place. And then they'll start just being really, really annoying, and they'll just start hammering the communication. And you've got to be polite at every point. But some people will still stay the whole time and then request a refund. And I'm like, well, it's not that bad then, is it? So you've got to catch these people out straight away and go, you can have a refund, but you're leaving now. And you leave the property empty. And it's like, it's not that let us come in and fix whatever you're— then they don't like that. There's no problems then, is there?

Yeah, I like that. Exactly. And I think what, what it's another important thing you mentioned in the positive of that, being a proactive host, which means yes, as you said, yeah, you will go your way beyond and say yes, I will send someone to look at your heating and fix it. But then at that point they said, oh no, no, there's no need, it's okay. Well, does it work then, or it's not working?

So we had a guest as well, be, um, right dickhead. This one's a good one, and this one is the closest to us. It's literally around the corner. I drive past it twice a day. It's really around the corner from us. And this, um, the owner lives in Dubai and he's never seen it, but this, this person checked in, um, moaned about something trivial. I think the heat, the heat in a temperature or something. Nothing was wrong, wouldn't let us in. Then he said he wanted a refund. What we think's happened is he was in one of our properties it is 30 minutes away. He had to check out because we had another guest coming in. He happened to book another one of ours in our town, and we think it was too far for him to travel to work, so he was trying to get a refund to go back to the other town. This is what we thought was happening. So we started moaning about loads and loads and loads of silly little bits, and we was like, we'll come then, we're literally around the corner. No, no, we're literally around the corner, we'll come. Was like, look, you can have a refund because you've been really annoying. We have to leave the property and leave it empty, and you have to cancel it so we can let it back out. And he wouldn't do it. So we went round. My husband had a gut feeling. He said, I'm gonna go round and see what he's done. He'd left every single light on, he'd left the extractor fan on, he'd left the keys in the door, which anyone could have broken into and got in. He'd left like the bins open, he'd left all the telly on. He'd just basically gone out his way to be a right pain in the ass. And luckily we captured it all on a video and picture evidence and flagged it to Booking.com straight away. And then he tried to request a refund, we were like, here's your evidence of you being annoying.

He was like, oh, sometimes it's worth to pick up your battles as well because as you said, it's sometimes better to, yes, have your refund and go rather than, you know, hosting them for a few days and then he, you know, do like bad things on purpose or destroy things on purpose or then leave you with 1-star review because of his anger and other problems. So sometimes it's not worth it. As you said, pick your battles, give him a refund, wish him good luck, and the next guest will, you know, the guest, the next available and better guest will book for sure.

Yeah, I would rather have peace over money. But again, we've had a guest and again, I'm going through a divorce, I've moved away, I need to book an Airbnb every weekend to have my kids. I was like, fair enough, So he was booking it. Something again then annoyed him. I don't know what it was. The neighbor left the bin out or something. I fucking don't know. And he punched the telly and ruined it, right? And I was like, there's no wonder you're getting divorced, is there?

You know, Heidi, I was just—

I hope you didn't say— I hope you didn't send that in the message.

So, my— you mentioned about not replying. To reviews in the moment. Yeah. When you receive it. And my first thought was, Heidi, do you reply to your reviews or is somebody else replying to your— I don't reply.

So I removed myself away from customer-facing stuff. I'm not very grammatically correct. And then my husband did it and then the virtual assistant does it. And now AI supports her to do it politely. Because I'll just go and bust them out.

Do it politely.

I like that.

I was just concerned for your business for a moment.

That's all.

No, that's why I know my strengths and that is not one of them.

Yeah, exactly.

So that's, well, so nicely delegated, Heidi.

Yes. Yeah.

That's actually an important thing, isn't it? The team that we work with is actually an important thing. And do you just mention, you know, your strengths, that's really important. Knowing that and then delegating what to who, I think that's super important.

Okay.

So talking about all these challenges and what we've went through with guests, I only had a couple of bad guests. One that it was only bad after he left when I found out what was at the property, but nothing too bad. And then I had some, one lady that when she checked in, she spent probably, I don't know, 2 hours sending me a full inventory of the property. You have no idea how detailed it was, like literally everything. And that at the start, I was, I received all those messages as a big complaint. So I was cautious about how I navigated that, you know, I even offered like you did to go and sort out some of the issues that she mentioned. Uh, most of it weren't even issues for anybody else. And then I realized that actually she was only worried about me trying to get a deposit off of her, you know, and claiming that she damaged this or that. So she was actually good in the end. There was some improvements that I could make on the back of all those messages. But anyway, we were talking about these challenges. So was there any mistake, Marzia, that you have made that actually you got in the end learn some valuable lesson from it?

There was few that I mentioned at the beginning. I think the biggest one was the photographer, which, you know, the photographer for sure. Um, that, that definitely was the one that I sort of learned very, you know, at the beginning of my journey. Um, I don't think there was anything major other than, you know, the few hiccups here and there, which obviously comes with like, you know, this particular business and like, you know, the lack of experience and, and yeah, the lack of knowledge. There were things that I didn't know. Sorry, what does it mean, optimize your listing? How can I, how can I do it and what does it really mean? And, you know, the right calendar setup and you, you know, you either you learn it when you go along and you want to learn or you stick to your ways and you don't. So yeah.

You learn along the way, right? Those sometimes are mistakes. There's mistakes that probably all of us did. Now we don't even see them as mistakes anymore. It was just part of the learning journey.

Because obviously I did not have any bookings or reservations as soon as I started. I think it was at least a week or maybe even longer because I had to, you know, organize photographers, swap the photos, etc. So obviously, you know, I was in a zone. I was thinking outside the box, what else can I do, who else, where can I promote my listing. I just didn't want to rely only on Airbnb being nice to me and getting me guests with like no reviews and, you know, being a new host. Also, there are many guests that are a bit skeptical if there's a new host And I come across it daily on like different, like, you know, forums and just like, oh, this new host. Ooh, I don't know if shall I book? And I said, well, everyone started at some point, right? If the photos look decent, they don't look like they are generated by AI, then well, yeah, we'll give some, some, you know, someone a go because, you know, I've been in this place. So I know what that means for this host sitting on the other side, waiting for the booking, right?

A lot of hosts as well.

Sorry, I was jumping in.

That. A lot of hosts as well are— so the way I started, and I didn't want to go into serviced accommodation, still don't particularly like it, to be honest. But I had one buy-to-let in our personal names and Section 24 tax was going to get us. So I— and I had the opposite of a bad guest. I had a very bad tenant. I hope she's watching. And then she left it in such a mess, I had no choice but to go to serviced accommodation to try and recoup some money back because she wiped out, I think, 4 years worth of profits just by leaving it an absolute hellhole. Um, so I went into SA, and then I found a gap in the market and started managing for other people and then growing the portfolio from there. Um, but where was I going with that? I can't even remember.

Well, we were talking about some mistakes, lessons learned, and waiting for the guests. Oh man, it's not active. It will come back to you maybe.

It comes back to me when I'm in the middle of the night and I'm like, ah, please!

You jumped in there because you had the thought and then you forgot the thought.

No, it was about the SA management sort of thing.

It was about the SA management.

Yeah, the SA management sort of thing where obviously you're setting up as a new host.

Oh yes, that you have like, booking it with like—

I know where I was going with it now. So, um, when you— so I did that and had one under my account. And you might only have one under your account because it might be like, David Oliveira, you've got one that might be in your personal name, etc., etc. So actually, as a new host, treating it like a business— a lot of people don't treat it like a business because it's their previous home or whatever. So yeah, definitely treating it like a business, I think people fail to do. And if you go through Airbnb, because I'm a little bit boring like that, that sometimes. You can see the people who haven't either made the effort or made too much effort to make it nice but haven't treated it like a business.

Yeah, you can actually spot that very, very easily, can't you? That's, that's a good— that's definitely a good point. But that's just as well about how people see their property business, isn't it? We know it's a business, even if you're just doing it on the side as an Airbnb host that just even is a spare room, whatever it is. But then there's people that want to actually make money from property and choose serviced accommodation as a strategy. But when you do that, there's a mindset shift, I think, so that it needs to happen as well. And so that's what I wanted to go and ask Marja about. What has changed for you, you know, from when you started to what you do now and how do you operate? Can you tell me more about it when it comes to mindset?

Yeah, I'm glad you asked about it because there was a big mindset shift from, you know, it can put you down if you don't get any bookings because effectively you think, okay, well, every single night I do not sell is the cost to me, right? I'm effectively paying for it. I'm not getting anything, but I still have to to pay all the, you know, expenses and all the other costs. So for me, the most valuable mind shift was, which I kept repeating myself over and over in those first few months, is don't compare yourself to others. Because I think nowadays we do it quite often. There's a lot happening on social media. People were, you know, showing off with their screenshots of level of bookings, how much revenue they're bringing, and Obviously now I know it's only Airbnb revenue. If you think about, if you, you know, deduct your cleaner, deduct your laundry, etc., it's not actually what you're having in a pocket. But, you know, it all sort of plays a little bit on your mind and how you perceive your business and your journey. And, you know, you might initially see yourself as a failure, or I'm not gonna get there, why shall I be doing this? Or, you know, you look local, oh, this place is fully booked, and actually the photos are worse than mine, so how they are A lot of people lie. And also it— and how, how do they do? They've got a full calendar. And I've, I've learned I'm on my own journey, okay? Everyone started at some point. It's my journey, I have to make it work. And instead of going from what if I fail, I was okay, what if it works? I just want to say it has to work for me. Um, and, and that's what I sort of, you know, try to go with. And, and that's why I try to do some more, more of a direct outreach reach for potential people who might be interested or for potential guests that might, you know, come over, not only rely on Airbnb, which initially was not bringing me many guests.

If you think as well, like, I've had somebody say to us recently who we used to manage their portfolio— they're not our best friends anymore, let's put it that way— and he was like, oh, we're doing so much better without you. I was like, are you though? So I looked on Airbnb, found it, and prove them wrong. And then also, because people like have a bit of an ego, and then there's another person who on social media will, will screenshot 30 grand bookings, 84-day bookings, blah blah blah, and they're very close to me. And I was like, I don't believe you, I don't believe you. So again, we found the listings because me and most of them get— we work together, we live together, we're married, do you know what I mean? We get a bit bored, we have to make up topics of conversation.

So you just scroll through listings in bed, let's see who is lying, you know.

We sit there, I'm going, find you on Companies House, we find the business, we find it, we go and have a look. And, um, and I was like, the decoration's awful, they have no furniture in the bedrooms. Who's going to pay 30, 40 grand and you haven't even got wardrobe in there. So it baffles me. So I'm like, I want to find out. So anyway, I looked at the listings and they spoke the biggest amount of shit I've ever seen in my life, and they're not even full at all.

And I'm like, yeah, that's why it's not even worth like listening to all this noise, because that will only like put you down, especially if it's early in the business. Also, what I've come across is that people, you know, the screenshot you've mentioned about 100, they are actually AI generated.

Is it— oh, I will, I will name him because I like him. Is it Raj?

Yeah, Raj Sended.

Yeah, yeah, the other day, and I went fucking spot on.

I think he's one of the only people I like in the industry. Yeah, yeah. And it's funny, like, you see it and you don't realize. Yeah, it's like, it's actually not your profit what you're showing, even if it is true, like those long bookings, etc. And I think that's where the perception, when people think, oh my God, I can literally start and have a 100-day booking and have £50,000 in my account.

No, no contractor wants to pay £50 grand upfront.

Exactly.

You don't like, oh, oh, it's really nice.

Well, I find that a lot of the posts that I see like that, flashy posts, you know, dreamy income, things like that. Are mostly coming from people that have something to sell, as, as in a training course or mentorship or something like that, which is really a shame because you don't, you want to be learning from people that will really help you. And I can't name or say that they're good or not good because at the end of the day, I see that those kinds of posts are kind of a marketing play. But that leads to disappointment, right? If I'm just about to start my serviced accommodation business, I'm going to be putting probably some money in the business, right? Unless I'm going with a partner, but if not, I'm going to have to spend some of my money. In many, many situations, people invest money that they don't have because they're desperate. They want to start, you know, and they think this is the future. This is like the little light at the end of the tunnel. For people to go into business, what you, you can even change, you change your life, you change your relationship at home. It can really involve so much when you start a business, right? And for people to go with the idea that they're gonna make tens of thousands of pounds when they start, that can be really disappointing and can deal to huge problems down the line. So I never really engage with any of those posts. Uh, I commend the people that teach about the business. Even those that are putting those posts potentially have very valuable lessons to share. I just don't like the fact that they will give unrealistic expectations to people, but people need to be wary about that as well.

It's not hard to catch them out. And I think if you know how to catch someone out, And again, there was— and I did this a couple of years ago, and it's the well-known mentors. And again, when I had a look at their listings, again, because it was in one of my areas, all of the reviews was done by their friends. Yeah. Yes. And I was like— and I'll never call anyone out in a negative way because I'm not, I'm not like that, but I know in the back of my mind, you're a scumbag.

Yeah.

Well, you know, at the end of the day, I think serviced accommodation for cash flow can be a great revenue stream. It probably is not for everyone, serviced accommodation. Each person will identify better, I think, with a different strategy. Personally, I still don't like very much serviced accommodation because it's it changes very quickly, right? I'm, I'm right here having a great conversation with you guys, and then the problem can come on the phone just like that.

Hospitality business, and people— it's not sold like that. Yeah, people don't realize till they're in it. It's a hospitality business. And somebody rang me once because the towel wasn't big enough. Yeah, it's like, are you naked on the phone to me? What are you doing? Like, I was like I can't help you, buy you a towel.

Like, and that's when you were banned from the customer-facing role. It wasn't the choice, really.

I got the world's biggest towel as well, that's what's really more annoying.

Well, it wasn't big enough. Um, am I forgetting anything that is now like relevant? Uh, Tell me if I were— I already started, but if I wanted to start now, what are a couple of tips just before we finish that you would give me, Marja?

So obviously we did mention a couple of probably scary things for people who are looking to start. Okay. It can be hugely rewarding. And I think Heidi, you will also agree because there are also amazing people and amazing returning guests that absolutely will commend your place and your customer service, and I think there's nothing better than getting that recognition, especially for me when I was getting those positive reviews from guests and some personal messages, it was absolutely lovely. And I think if you do like, again, unless you delegate as Heidi, talking to people and, you know, communicate with them, it's definitely going to be business for you. And I would say, you know, put a little something for your guests, make them feel special and try to create an experience. What I would say based on my experience, start even if you think you're not 100% ready. I wasn't 100% ready, as you've heard, my deliveries went all wrong. Things, not everything was the way it should be when I started, and along the way I was, you know, changing things within the property, changing the system, how I was operating, putting some automated messages, or I learned, as I said, don't put everything in one message, just, you know, let the guests digest the whole stay and experience. What I would say, celebrate every small win. You know, I was celebrating my first guest, my first 5-star review, first contractor, first long-term booking. These are the very small steps, but will make it all worthwhile doing it. And as I said, make a note of your lessons learned and review them a couple of months' time. You'll be surprised how much you've learned. I'm glad, I'm glad I did that. Early on in the process because probably now I wouldn't have remembered how I felt at the time. So now it was really good. I could go back and see, oh, that is what happened. And yeah, don't measure your success by comparing yourself to others. Your story is different, your property is different, and you can make it work. To finish on a positive note.

To finish on a positive note. I think that's, it's actually a great way to finish, you know, Don't compare yourself to other people. I think that is a great mindset tip that you're giving us here.

And I would say also, don't think negatively that your first guest is going to be one that will smash your TV and leave your door open, etc. I was very nervous when I had my first guest and I walked into the property afterwards, what I will find. But from that, every time I got the reservation, the first few months or weeks, I was saying, it's gonna be okay. They're gonna, you know, I always sort of try to visualize there are good guests. I've never actually had any like major issues of my experience. So it's mindset as well. You need to make it, you know.

Yes, exactly. That's a fear that a lot of property investors have at the start, not just on serviced accommodation. And if you think about it, that will happen in any business that you have. You will have problems that will just happen in any business and any industry. You're going to have to deal with people that you don't want to deal with. You're going to have bad clients in any business, but there's one way—

there are ways to— so that you do not attract those guests. And Heidi will agree, by the right listing optimization, pricing, And there are a few other tips that you can do along the way that you will not attract certain groups maybe that want to book or certain people that will go somewhere else based on the budget or what's, you know.

Yeah.

Marzia, do you manage other people's or just your own?

Just my own at the moment. I actually had two that I managed. I got one now. Yeah. On and off. Yeah.

That's, um, speaking of bad people, there's there's bad customers as owners as well.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like if—

customers, shall we call them?

Yeah, because if something goes wrong with the guests, when you obviously manage for other people as well, if something goes wrong with a guest, we've built it into the contract that we can resolve it really quickly. So say, for example, there's a leak. We've got a house where there's a leak and we've resolved it, resolved it, resolved it. Looks like to be the internal pipework.

Now.

The owner went absolutely AWOL, couldn't find them, couldn't find them. And we literally, we had to not pay them to, to draw them out of the woodwork because they weren't responding to emails, texts, phone calls, nothing. Um, so that could obviously impact on your host status if an owner doesn't respond to you as well. So it's like, yeah, you've got to build your contracts really, really well. Your bloody resilience.

That's probably a great—

yeah, I, I like that, you know. And just, we were talking about finishing on a positive note, and then I started saying again that there's terrible things happening.

But you just fight me all the time.

I do.

I, I— you will get great guests that will leave 5-star reviews, and your business is going to be thriving.

Yes. And, and that happens, you know. There's, there's great guests as well, like you said, people that are returning, people people that actually will send you a message just to say thank you for the great service that you had. One of the worst guests that I had left me a great review because of the good service. Well, because of the good service that we provided.

I thought that was the guest that was like, you know, literally every 5 minutes I had a message. What about this? What about that? What about— and I was like, oh, I'll find it. And I was like, sorry, when did they check out? And said, oh, another 2 days. But the review they left was, oh my God, Marja was so proactive, she sent the technician. And the fact that there was something broken actually worked in my favor because I sent the technician and they fixed it.

So, no, but you know, it can be very rewarding.

And I'll shut up. I stayed in an Airbnb about 15 years ago when it first became a thing, and the boiler was absolutely knackered. And it broke and I couldn't have a bath. And we'd been walking all day in like the Peak District, whatever it was, and it was on site, so it was next to the owner's thing. So the— and they went, oh, I'm really sorry, it's broken, I can't fix it today. And it's all right, I'm not bothered. And she bought us a bottle of champagne and some chocolates, and I was like, how ridiculous, like why is she going out of her way to do this? And now I understand why, because she didn't want a bad review and I could have gone hell to leather on that. Yeah, so again, it's managing everyone's expectations. Exactly.

Exactly.

One thing that I notice, and again, that is, this is not just serviced accommodation, it's really business in general. When we think about the fears that someone might have at the start, I talk about dealing with problems. I just had this conversation with someone I know that was complaining about his life. And I said to him, really, it's just about the problems problems that you want to deal with. These problems that we're talking about, they are great problems. They are bringing us revenue. So those are good problems to have. If someone is complaining on Airbnb, it's because they're paying to be there. So I want to deal with those, with those problems as well. So, you know, Yes. You left your email address. I'll make sure to leave it somewhere around the video for the people that will watch the recording. Where else can I find you? What is your—

So you can find me on social under Marja Kubiak or Marja Superhost on Instagram. If you are a starting host or you're thinking of service accommodation, you want to have a chat, do ping me a message. Happy to, you know, talk further about this listing optimization or other few bits and pieces that we discussed here or share some further experiences or stories.

So yeah, that is fantastic. You've been really good today. You know, I've learned a few things that especially when it comes to being a Superhost that, like I said, I wasn't familiar before. I just want to plug in here in terms of the Secret Property Club, and this is really important. The reason why you are here today, as well as other people that we invite on our show, on our platform, is because rather than trying to sell training courses, really expensive, but we are a community where we try to bring experts from the different, uh, property— well, not sectors, the industry is the same, but I mean the different property strategies, um, the different industry professionals that are needed for our industry to this one place to give us the tips, the best, the challenges. Like you said earlier, was it the good, the bad, and the ugly? I think that you said, and it's a big collection of information that we are collecting inside the Secret Property Club and everyone is welcome. So I want to thank Heidi for being here with us as well today. It was really good to have you. Maja, fantastic. I hope that you come back in the future, and I want to thank everyone as well that watch. And if there's any questions at all, just leave in the comments in the video in the future, and we'll get back to you. So thank you very much.

Thank you so much, David and Heidi. We had a fantastic chat. Thank you, guys.

Thank you.

Bye-bye. Bye-bye.