Everyday Entrepreneur - Aidan Sowa - Zoto Dialer - S2 E 15

Hello everyone and welcome. This is another episode of The Everyday Entrepreneur. I'm your host, Paul H. Flowers Jr., and this is the Pope Replays podcast show. Today we have a phenomenal guest, amazingly excited to have this gentleman on, as again, he's breaking down all sorts of barriers and bringing things to the marketplace like no other company's done before. Really excited to hop in. Aiden, we're not going to waste any time. Uh, gentlemen, ladies of the audience, listeners out there, wherever you are in the world, please meet Aiden Sowa. Aiden, how are you, my friend?

I'm doing well. Good to be on the show.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And again, it's a pleasure to have you as well. You've got a story and we want to just dive right in. So Tell us about where you are currently. Again, we know that with this particular show, we're only bringing on founders. And of course, you are the CEO of ZotoDialer. We'd love to hear about how you got to this point, uh, where you've been, and we'll talk about where you're going a little bit later, but we really want to talk about that origin story. So tell us about how you got to this point.

Yeah, so I currently run a company called ZotoDialer, but prior to that, I've ran a marketing agency for many years. I still do, actually. Which is called like Sola Marketing Agency. And that particular company I've ran since like 20, 2019 actually. And I ran that for many years. It's kind of changed quite a bit over the years. Like initially speaking, it was like a lead generation agency, Facebook ads and Google ads type of thing. More so transitioned to like a branding agency. And we adopted a lot of different types of email marketing and everything like that in terms of like generating leads. But then eventually we came across like cold calling and stuff like that, and I really spent a lot, a bunch of time just trying to perfect the whole science of it. Um, and that's how I eventually started ZotoDialer, which, um, which, uh, is the newer company, more or less.

Okay, well, again, you, you're speaking my language when you talk about cold calls. Now, I don't usually hop into my, my past, uh, when I'm doing the interviews, but the short version of it is I come from a call center setting. So I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna drill right in on you with that one. Zoto Dialer, tell us, how do you differentiate yourself again in a world of, uh, 5-9s and phone burners, right? How do you differentiate Zoto Dialer from those brands that have been out there 5, 10, 15 years?

Yeah, I mean, there's a couple of things. For one, I've noticed that a lot of these enterprise companies just neglect their small business clients. Um, and it's not just me saying this. I saw everywhere in terms of like the Google reviews and stuff like that. I'm just complaining. I've noticed that if, if you're an enterprise, if you have like hundreds of employees, like these larger companies will obviously prioritize you more. But what that typically means is the customer support, if it is there, is very lacking. Um, and so that's one way which we differentiate ourselves. And the other aspect is that our system actually works for the long term. So a lot of these systems, for example, like Five9, right, what they do is they typically last for like a couple of months, but then over time their numbers burn out. And then if your numbers aren't burning out, if you're not getting connected with people, um, I mean, most small business owners would just quit, um, at that point in time because they're not getting results. And so we have a system which is built around actually getting results in terms of for one, we're able to connect it to more people, and two, it's built for durability. So that means it's not going to burn, um, over time, these phone numbers, because that's something which is kind of a newer thing. It's been introduced over the last like 3, 4 years of the whole ideas of spam filters for phone numbers. And a lot of these people who are doing these calls are acting like that doesn't even exist, but it does. So, um, it's an unfortunate reality which Um, have led some people to say cold calling is dead, and I've seen that all over, but that's, it's more like the old style of cold calling is dead and you gotta adapt.

Okay. Okay. Well, speaking of adaptation, the first thing that comes to mind are things like GDPR compliance, right? And making sure that the DNC is scrubbed and all that, because of course, like you said, those spam filters are popping up more and more. And ironically enough, depending on what number you're calling from, You know, it might just trigger that spam filter to block that connection. So let's talk about that. You know, how do you make sure that with even working on the small business side, you're making sure that the, all the I's are dotted and T's are crossed and the compliance piece is really there?

Yeah. So, I mean, in terms of compliance and stuff, we always make sure, like, especially to the GDPR, like exactly the data store, we have stuff stored on like European servers, et cetera, for like those types of clients. Um, in regards to the actual compliance in regards to calls and stuff, like there's certain types of rules. For example, like we make sure that the calls don't have like too high of like a hangup rate and stuff like that. So we do parallel dialing. And for anyone who doesn't understand what that is, it's just what we're calling a number of different numbers at the exact same time. And we're optimizing for the number of people who pick up the phone while optimizing for the minimum of people who are actually hanging up the phone. And so what results in is people getting connected every 20 to 30 seconds. And that is extremely fast because then you're more or less getting connected, connected, connected constantly rather than waiting around, which is pretty normal for most, uh, most companies out there.

Yeah. And, you know, having again come from that setting, it's a pleasure to realize that you can have a system that is going to get you connected quickly. Now, I'm just curious as far as the target companies that you work with, because I came from the insurance side, but obviously we're not the only folks out there dialing and smiling, smiling and dialing. So what What industries do you typically target, and of those, which do you have the highest success rates?

We work with a lot of staffing agencies. We also work with various call centers, real estate wholesalers, some people in the insurance industry. Those are the main ones, I would say. We've had a couple solar, but mostly those, mostly those types of industries. Also BPOs occasionally, but Um, but those are the main ones. Okay.

And again, ironically enough, again, I've touched in or have partners in each one of those areas. So it sounds like you're pretty broad in terms of how you can work with and adapt to certain industries and their user— I'll call it their use, their usage of the platform. Are there any industries that just personally you're like, nah, we don't want to touch it?

Um, I would say like industries where it's like really low ticket types of services. Like I've seen people be like, hey, I have like this service, which is like $100 or $200 ebook or something. And I would probably say it's not worth your time necessarily to go around cold calling for it. Typically cold calling, it does require like a decent amount of energy to be able to go out and do this stuff, even though we have like everything optimized and everything. So if you're going to be putting in the work and stuff like that, even if like even if you're tracking numbers and everything like that, um, it's probably not worth it if it's something really low ticket.

Gotcha, gotcha. I'm curious, I know you had your marketing agency first, but what, what made dialing the way to go? Why not tackle something like an emailing operation as opposed to dialing? Because, you know, like you said, you hear it all the time, people out there saying cold calling is dead. And to some degree, people say email marketing is no good too. So you've got critics in all scale, you know, every area of marketing. Somebody's saying that something doesn't work. So what made you hone in on the phone as the way to, to connect?

Yeah. So I would say pretty much all of these types of marketing can be done. Every single time I've seen someone say that it's dead, quote unquote, I analyze what they're actually doing. Couple of things which I've noticed is that, for example, cold calling, they're calling landlines. Landlines, a lot of people, ever since the COVID era, people are not using those as much. So you have to call mobile numbers. The other aspect is they don't have these numbers rotating. So already I check the numbers, stuff like that, labeled as spam. So these people who are calling it dead, essentially uneducated about the proper ways to go about doing it, hence not like true experts within their field. And the same applies to cold email and pretty much every type of marketing. I've seen people also claim that Facebook ads are dead and stuff like that, right? Google ads are dead. But it's usually those people just aren't experts in their field. So I think the translation is you're just not good at this, more or less, and you have to get better if you want to really, you know, take over pretty much every type of marketing. And this is kind of crazy to me sometimes, but like direct mail, even like postcards, like sending handwritten postcards, there's ways you can automate those now with AI and stuff. So you can have like personalized AI handwritten notes which people are sending out to enterprises, just look like real handwritten notes and even that stuff like that works. And some people might see that as like super ancient. It would never work, but it absolutely does. So I think it's just this is just one vertical which we do. We also like I do offer like my marketing company called email marketing as well to like certain clients as well, depending on the industry. We only do B2B, but for certain industries, like if you're B2C and stuff, you legally cannot really do cold email. There's so many risks in terms of legalities when doing cold email and stuff. So for like staffing agencies, we're literally reaching out to employees or any of those types of things. Cold calling is absolutely perfect. And another aspect of these other types of quote unquote new channels of marketing, whether it's like Facebook ads or cold email or any of these different types of things, the problem with them is that they occasionally burn out. So maybe the cold email channel burns out, maybe a Facebook ad channel like gets banned, which does happen. There's all types of things. Maybe your cost per lead goes skyrockets randomly, which does happen. So there's a lot of randomized factors. The great thing is about cold calling, though, is once you kind of have like a script and you know it works and you— then you can more or less predict the future. And it's extremely rare for you to have a downtime. So it's a good, reliable channel. Some people, for many channels, it's their main channel. But even for other channels, it's a good backup to have in those types of situations because otherwise you're going to have like massive ups and massive downs. And what that results in is on a monthly basis, a lower, uh, monthly revenue versus if you had a consistent basis, at least you wouldn't have like a zero on that particular day in terms of like number of leads generated.

Okay. Okay. That's understandable. So let's, let's kind of talk about the, um, uh, I like to go back down memory lane again for our listeners who know we always like to hear a little bit about the, um, the origins Why marketing for you? Again, you had your own marketing agency. And, you know, let's kind of talk about how you get into these things because they're— and the reason why I asked this question, Adrian, again, like we mentioned just briefly before coming on board, that there are a lot of people out there. There are, there are teens, right? There are folks in their 20s, there are folks in their 50s that don't quite know how to get started, don't quite know what they want to do. And it seems you were able to tap into this passion, uh, really well before the age of 30. Right? So if you would share a little bit more about how really you got into this vein of marketing and had the courage really to start your own agency.

Yeah, I mean, I would say for marketing, it just happened to be the channel. I mean, it could have been anything really. I knew I wanted to start a business and when the opportunity presented itself, like when I previously worked with MIT Enterprise Forum Cambridge briefly and I learned a bit about marketing there, so that kind of got my interest a bit, but I I also went into like a number of different courses, which I saw like from like Instagram ads and stuff like that, which I got involved with, like sort of started to understand the game. And what made me particularly interested within that is I saw people who were extremely successful who I knew and stuff like that. And that's what made me want to push even further within the industry because I saw the sheer potential of it. Um, there's many different avenues, I would say, of like trying to start a business. And for me, that was just the most easy, like kind of low entry type of field to get into for me personally, because I had that past experience within marketing.

Well, that's definitely a plus. And for the listeners out there, if you wouldn't mind, Aiden, would you share with them your age?

Yeah, I'm 25 years old. Wow.

Wow. Again, at 25, already founded multiple companies and again, growing them wildly throughout the country. Let me ask, what's your secret? And how do you stay focused and disciplined when I remember when I was 25, there were a lot of distractions out there. Uh, what's your secret? What's your source? How do you stay focused and disciplined in growing your agencies or your companies?

I mean, the secret is just focusing on like what your goals actually are. So for me, I want to know what my 10-year goals are. Like, that's why I map them out. I actually write them down and stuff like that. Exactly what my 10-year goals are. I take that, split it into one year, and then split that into one month, and then split that into my weekly and eventually daily type of goals. It's fairly easy to figure out what from there, what I need to actually do. And I don't just set them just purely based on like some people just do them based on money. For me, it's not that I do based on like, you know, relationships, health, like every, every, every aspect of life which I'm trying to like improve in other aspects. And then I, and I set them accordingly and it's a constantly changing type of thing as well. So sometimes you might think like, oh, maybe event marketing, I'm going to try that or whatever. It doesn't really work out. Then you got to adjust those goals. So it's not like these are set in stone, but as long as you know where you're going, I think of it as like a map. A lot of people don't use many maps anymore, but I would just think like, you know, when you're trying to get someplace, if you don't know where you're going, it's pretty hard to like get there. So most people I've noticed, at least 50% of people who are like non-entrepreneurs oftentimes are going what I would describe as on autopilot, where they're kind of just spinning, but they don't know exactly where they're going. They have a vague idea where they're going and they don't even know, like if I would ask them like, hey, if I split that goal, how would you split that goal up into 6 months, 1 month, you know, weekly? Most people don't take the time to actually do that. And do— just do— doing that alone gives you a massive, massive advantage. Um, there was a study a while back within like Harvard where it took people who, uh, around 10 years goals and they all set like the— some one group set their goals, other group didn't. And the group which set goals ended up making 10 times as much money as the ones which didn't. So that's just kind of like the power of like setting goals. And these wouldn't— they— these people, all they did was set like their goals like 10 years in the future. That's all they did. They didn't break it down to monthly, like, and like, so if you— if they had done that, it might have been even more. But just kind of goes to show, like, uh, most people just don't set their goals and it's holding them back greatly. Um, so that, that's more or less the secret.

Okay, okay. Well, tell us, what kind of mentorship did you have along the way?

Yeah, so in terms of mentorship, I mean, I've went through a number of different courses at the beginning. Um, the one which really helped me was this, um, agency group, no longer exist, but it— when it did, it was like kind of like a community-ish type of thing where they were like weekly calls, like biweekly calls actually. And there was also like a course and stuff like that and they would teach different types of methods of outreach, whether it was like cold email, LinkedIn, etc. I kind of made it something more than it actually was where I joined the course and I created a community within the community where we would practice and we would practice like different sales calls. We would roleplay with each other and stuff like that. And make different ideas. And like, the guy who created the course had no idea. So when he learned about it, he was like, what is this whole thing? Because I'm hearing about this separate WhatsApp group. And I was the one like behind it. And I'd create this like kind of mini group of people because there were several people who joined like courses, stuff like that. And I would say about 70-80% of people who join courses, in my opinion, are not serious. They either think it's one, either a scam, or they just aren't willing to put in the effort, both of which are like a no-go. So that's the reason why a lot of people like think that certain courses are like a scam or whatever, but oftentimes they aren't. It's just most people just don't really put in the effort to do it. In fact, 50% of people who buy courses don't even open them, which blows my mind. But somehow that's, somehow that's a thing. So I worked with the people who, you know, who are really actually pushing and stuff like that. I still know a lot of them today. And that really helps because it takes entrepreneurship, which is more so of like oftentimes seen as like a solo type of journey, it becomes more of like a group thing where you're working together, kind of like bouncing ideas back and forth and stuff. And that's how like, even though like, you know, eventually the course is no longer existing, it doesn't matter. I still know those types of people and it still, it still is greatly beneficial. So I would say searching for something like that and now Now things have sort of changed. I think people have caught on to that whole thing because I see like through school and other platforms where there's more community focus and stuff like that. That didn't exist back when I first started into entrepreneurship. Now there's like easier ways, easier ways to entry and stuff, but there's a lot of non-legitimate like types of things which I noticed. And oftentimes the biggest telltale sign for me, whether like a course is like legitimate, is whether that person is actually still doing that business model. The one which I went into, the guy was actually still running the agency. The only reason why he stopped running the course is because his agency took off so much that like that became his main focus. Gotcha. So like that's the type of person who I would say is like successful. The types of guys like, oh, do this, do that, but they either have never done it or did it for like a very brief period of time. Those are the types of courses that I see pretty much worthless in my opinion. So yeah, just looking for someone who's like at that point where you want to be and is actually actively doing it and they're willing to show the results, not just screenshots. Like, like literally what the guy who was— I bought the course from me, like he would open his computer and be like, hey, like these are like literally like pull up Stripe and like all these different things. Like this is what happened today. Like these are not screenshots. I'm literally loading this up right now and just seeing those numbers like it's real rather than like, you know, the standard like screenshots that you saw on the internet or whatever made it seem so much more real than, um, than what is typically seen. Because it's easy to pull up like a fake screenshot or whatever results, but it's, uh, it's harder to fake that, that's for sure.

Okay, well, that's definitely good to know. So we'll be looking for, again, mentors that are still working in their particular field as well as able to— hey, just like Missouri, the Show-Me State, Show me. And if you're saying you created all these millionaires and deca-millionaires, by all means, bring a couple of them up. Let's have some testimonials type of thing. Now, in your case, the, the beginnings are again always really important, but you'd mentioned setting your goals and looking out some years. So tell us, Aiden, what's on the horizon? What are some of the next advancements either for yourself personally, for Zoto Dialer as a company? Again, bringing on more team members. Tell us, what's your growth play?

Yeah. So in terms of my growth play, I plan on bringing it to at least, I would say, 8 figures in terms of valuation. That's my goal for, for ZotoDialer at the minimum. I think it potentially could go higher, but that's my goal for like that next 10 years or so. Maybe potentially might be more. I have to kind of figure out more information in terms of whether that's actually possible. But my goal is to be able to do that through like many different like types of partnerships and stuff like that. I don't think it's going to be that difficult because like our average client is typically spending like $2,500 a month in terms of like on the Dialer software. So it's just a matter, a matter of time. But that, that's one of my goals and to be able to employ whatever amount of people it takes in terms of like customer support people and everything like that in order to ensure that these actual customers are satisfied. In terms of my marketing agency, just plan on continuing to scale that to like probably potentially 8 figures. I'm not sure like if I want to like really focus as much on that right now because The Dialer is kind of my main focus. I might just kind of stay like grow a bit, but not as much as I have been right now. But that's sort of my goal right now.

Okay. Okay, excellent. So again, still working on both, still managing both. And again, I know that's got to take a lot of time. Now, you share with me at this point, uh, not married, no children. So it's you and you've got with that, you've got to be able to still balance your time. You've got to still be able to obviously eat, sleep, right? It can't be work all the time. Uh, what, what does Aiden do for fun? Like, how do you actually unwind after a hard day of again, running several companies in parallel?

I mean, I like to play chess. Um, that's, that's one thing which I like to do. Um, and I also like reading books a lot. Um, that's, that's something which I find enjoyable as well. Um, yeah, those are the main ways.

That, that's ironically enough, you can see the books behind me. Of course, uh, what you can see is the Chess.com app on my phone, so I'm not sure if that's your favorite platform also, but by all means, I'd love to challenge you to a match so that we can test wits virtually, at least from a distance here. Uh, you tell us that you're also a reader. I'm really excited to learn, uh, if you would share with us a couple of your favorite books, books that you can recommend that readers take a listen to, to really begin to expand their horizons.

Yeah, so I would say, um, in terms of books, I recommend like pretty much anything by like people who already achieve like their goals. Like, I'm a big fan of like Warren Buffett's books and stuff in terms of like everything, like Becoming Warren Buffett, like the movie and like the books around him, every single book. I've read every single one of his books. In terms of like understanding his journey, it's quite interesting to see how someone, even though it's like sort of like a different industry, has been able to achieve their success. So anything about him is like absolutely great. And also I've read a lot of biographies of like Bill Gates as well. And he's, he's quite an interesting character as well. I like to kind of take, taking kind of, you know, mend it all together, not every bit, but like figure out what, what works for me type of scenario.

And, uh, you're listening to some pretty heavy hitters here, Aiden, where we're not talking about the, uh, the regular social media gurus or something like that. You're talking about essentially iconic brands, right? Warren Buffett himself is a brand. Rule number 1, learn how to make money. Rule number 2, all right, don't lose the money, right, type of thing. And, and then we've got Bill Gates, who clearly, looking at Microsoft on most desktop computers that are running today, you know, Microsoft versus Apple are about the only two that people can think of when they think of operating systems. You're not playing with any, uh, small players. So noting that you're looking at your own companies as multiple 8-figure valuations, again, that's not surprising. What are some of the characteristics that you believe that it'll take in order to reach and achieve them? And by all means, you can feel free to borrow from the books, that you've read again with them in particular, because I personally hadn't read any books on Warren Buffett or Bill Gates. And I'd love to know what some of the characteristics are that you feel are important to really get to those levels of success.

I would say like tenacity is like one of the biggest things. It's like just kind of pushing through like really difficult times and stuff and just keep pushing through because for me, I know I can get to that level. Like I've already done, you know, multi-seven figures with my agencies in the past and stuff like that. I know exactly like the blueprint in terms of like how I'm going to do it. Primarily partnerships, email marketing, events, cold calling. Those are the types of ways which I plan on expanding with the actual Dialer software and like Wise with the marketing agency. And there's certain types of like, I always like I kind of start from the top and I analyze downwards. So I— what I did is I analyzed the total addressable market and all the different marketing strategies, and then I sort of figured out like these are the marketing strategies which I need to do and what I need to expand. So the only thing holding me back at this point is just hiring people so that way I can get them to do those particular tasks and hiring good quality people. And as long as I just continue doing that, I'm sure I'm sure it'll be fine.

And, and, you know, hiring and firing is quite a thing, you know, in my lifetime, I've had, I've hired quite a few. And unfortunately, I've had to be in that position where I've fired quite a few. Yeah, it's not easy. You know what I mean? It's not easy. And in this world that we're in now, digitally, managing human relationships gets to be, some people say easier, but quite frankly, I think there's a big difference between a warm handshake and eye-to-eye contact versus, for all intents and purposes, staring at ones and zeros on a screen that are made to believe that our color is an image of the real person. But of course, we know they're not, right? We're looking at cameras that are silicone and plastic, and that all makes a difference. So I'm just going to throw out a really hypothetical question again, knowing that you've got almost 3 decades in, in life right now. We've got those entrepreneurs that you're learning from that are 60 and 70. They didn't get a chance to grow up. With what you have. And of course, obviously, we're massively successful. Um, but in this digital world, let's say it were to disappear, right, tomorrow, right? If this world would— if all the computers and all the tech and all the cameras and all the softwares were just gone, and what would be one of the real-world skills that you would use to actually thrive in that marketplace?

I mean, there's a number of different things. I mean, I'm pretty comfortable in terms of like actually talking to people. So like traditional types of marketing, such as like door knocking, is still very much available. Event marketing still works. I've done like pretty much every type of marketing and I know how to like actually approach like different types of people. Event marketing is very much successful. So there's always ways you can kind of get in the door. I actually think that some of these traditional types of marketing are extremely underestimated. It. I saw this video recently, they were calling door knocking the newest trend. I was like, come on, this has been around for ages. I'm like, yeah, but like, it very much works. I think what happened is that Facebook ads and Google ads and all these other things kind of popped up, and door knocking, it was like, it was ridiculous amount of door knockers at one point in time, and it's kind of dipped down, but not because it doesn't work, but because, because these other markets have been seen as more interesting. And it's still— I think it still very much works, especially in reaching out to different businesses. And in fact, I know several businesses which do it as their primary source of marketing. So it still very much works.

I like that. I like that. So, you know, you just spoke about Facebook, actually their ads a couple of times. And that makes me think of all these social media platforms, right? I'm sorry, I keep calling it Twitter. The X, the Facebook. The YouTube, the Twitch, right? All these platforms. And of course, everyone thinks that one is the best, you know, the TikTokers of the world versus the Instagrammers of the world. And it's all just— it's a lot of stuff. So I'm just curious, if you, if you personally had to get rid of all of your social media except for one, which platform would you keep and why?

Well, it definitely would be Instagram just because that's why I have like, you know, some following there. And also, I mean, it's the easiest one in terms of getting response rate for me, like being able to connect with people. It just is in terms of that. Yeah, other platforms such as Facebook, I'm actually not even on that. So that wouldn't be that much of a loss because I mean, for me, Facebook, I've never actually been— I've got like a few clients off of Facebook in the past in terms of like manually reaching reaching out to people, and I've gotten clients off of like Facebook ads and Google ads. But my experience is Instagram is where a lot of, a lot of opportunity is.

Okay. Hey, well, I definitely see that one. Definitely an Instagram fan myself. I'm just now branching into TikTok and doing the whole lives and Creator Studios, and it's, it's a lot to learn, right? That's, that's almost like a a full-time job. And it actually, to me, was very humbling realizing that I'm 40 years old and I'm getting on TikTok and not knowing how to do all this stuff was also the piece for me. So I'm curious, for you, what's a, you know, what's been the most humbling lesson that you've learned while building your empire?

I would say that, um, that probably sometimes like my expectations and stuff like that aren't necessarily met like exactly. And sometimes life happens in unexpected ways. Like sometimes I might think like, oh, like all these different deals are going to close and it doesn't, but actually it's some other larger deal, which is kind of like unforeseen, but due to my hard work kind of gets me there. So it's not always exactly what you think, which is going to get there. So there was a couple of like those types of moments where like I was like, done. I was like, I thought that guy was definitely going to sign up, but he didn't. But then, you know, down the line something else happens. So you kind of have to, um, you can plan, you could definitely plan and stuff like that, but you can't, you definitely can't predict the future exactly.

Um, that's for sure, that's for sure. I haven't seen a crystal ball that actually works, right? You know, not, not in today's world. So, you know, there's a lot of people out there that are looking for how to get started. If you were to advise an entrepreneur, now let's say somebody in their teens even, because again, we don't— we don't— there's a common misconception that you have to be a certain age or, or something to that effect in order to get started. So let's say there are teens out there, folks in their 12th, 13th, 14th year of life, or even their 18, 19, 20, you know, early 20s, what would be your advice to them as far as how to get started on a, on building a new venture from scratch?

My advice might be a little bit controversial, but I would just go out there and just find, do something. And I wouldn't even say it matters whether you like it or not. I think it's just best just to, to get started and just try any of like the models and stick to it because there's so many shiny objects out there. I think people spend way too much time trying to shift from each model to different models. And they spend like so many people, they're like, okay, I'm doing dropshipping now, I'm doing, you know, cryptocurrency, like trading and like all this like crap, which just kind of keep going back and forth and stuff like that. And I think all of these models work. I know people in all of these industries which are extremely successful, but the difference between like an amateur and an expert is oftentimes experts actually spend time honing their skills in terms of like really getting good at. They're not the type of person who was hopping around from industry to industry. There was no, there was no shiny perfect way, at least that I've seen, which just gets you from like zero to like millions or whatever instantly. It just takes a lot of hard work and a lot of hours. You just got to put in those hours. And even when it is difficult, it's just to keep committing because all of this big misconception, I see it from everywhere where people are like, oh, I didn't get the motivation. And I always say to those people, and they also say to me like, oh, this thing happened, this horrible thing happened in my life, so therefore I didn't do anything for the next couple of years. And I would say to those types of people, I'll be like, yes, those times are difficult and it's inevitable that you will have difficult times or you might not feel motivated or maybe you're having a bad day at those point in times. But the thing which actually keeps you going is not motivation, it's discipline. So as long as you have discipline and as long as you actually, you know, start moving on something which, which is, you know, there has to actually be successful people within that particular industry. But as long as there is, there's definitely a way.

Okay, again, words of wisdom, guys. Go out there and get started on something. All right, you all are hearing it first. And I like that you said any industry, it doesn't necessarily matter, because I think you're kind of right in a degree that a person's likely going to fail that first venture anyway.

Yeah.

And as I think about it, I don't know many stories of a person that has started just one thing, and that one thing is what took them all the way to the top, right? Yeah, I may have to go and do some research, uh, because I don't know all of the stories of the greats that we see now. Like, I think of Steve Jobs with Apple, and I'm not sure how many ventures that might have been started before Apple. So again, for the listeners out there, if there are a ton of other entrepreneurs out there that have started that one thing and have taken all the way to the top, by all means drop it in the comments, let us know. But it seems like many people go through multiple iterations of a business before they kind of hone in, if they're even sticking around, right? If they even have the tenacity, like you mentioned, to go through the tough times. So I'm curious for you, Aiden, what was one of the toughest times that you had to overcome in building, again, either your marketing agency or Xoto Dialer?

I would say, um, initially speaking, just kind of figuring things out while at the same time learning to really just be careful in terms of like who I trust, I would say, because there's a lot of people like who are like scammers and stuff like that. And I had a couple of like really bad incidents where I lost a considerable amount of money at like when, when I quite easily could have avoided it if I had understood better. So figuring out who to— who I actually trust, while then being able to identify those traits and stuff like that. Also not taking on as much risk in terms of like not doing like wire transfers, even if the person seems like trustworthy and stuff, always just doing stuff via credit card. Understanding the quote-unquote boring aspects of a business, whether it comes to like legal agreements and stuff like that. Understanding what a chargeback is, all these things. Which are not considered quote unquote sexy. And you don't see any of these gurus talking about like, oh, you have to have a legal agreement like this. You need to have like, you know, like all these different things protecting you and stuff. But there's— you got to understand that. And when I didn't understand that stuff at first, I had like some people who tried to like take advantage of me in certain ways where like people were like, try— this one guy like tried to scam me for like $20,000, did actually. And that happened back to back. And that was like really frustrating. And then Yeah, so certain incidents like that. And then like, you know, early on when I first started the business, I had a guy like trying to do a chargeback and he had no idea even what that was. So like stuff like that. And I'd already delivered the service and I said to him, I said, like, well, that's pretty much illegal because you really delivered the service. You're like, what are you talking about? Just getting your money back? But he was like, oh, I could just call my bank and say, like, I never authorized that transaction. I was like, that's completely illegal. But he was going to do it anyway. I had to like navigate that situation, convince him to not do it and stuff like that by giving him more services, stuff like that. But if I had my agreement written in a specific way, be like, hey, this very specifically, like, there's no refunds and all this stuff after, like, you pay. If you have, like, your agreements written in certain ways, there's certain ways to protect yourself against that and controlling what ways you get your payments done, knowing about quarterly, like, taxes and all this, like, kind of slightly boring aspects, but those Those are just as important in a way to be able to get that all taken care of. Otherwise you can make all the money in the world. But one of the things is a lot of people make a bunch of money, but they don't talk about like, hey, like, how do you actually keep the money? And like, they sometimes just lose it all and stuff like that. I speak to people all the time. One guy I knew, like, he would like post all this stuff about traveling and stuff like that. I wanted to speak to him and I'd be like, well, how do you like manage this money? Like, oh, I just kind of spend it. Someday it's just going to come back to me. And I'm like, that's kind of risky. And so, and so he eventually ended up losing it all in terms of like he lost his Instagram, which was his main source of business. All of a sudden he goes from making millions of dollars or whatever to making zero. And then now he owns a Lamborghini, he owns a house, he has all these payments he has to make, and all of a sudden he doesn't have the money to be able to pay it back. So he had to move back into his parents' house and like all this stuff. And eventually he's now rebuilt his business and stuff like that. But he could have easily avoided that situation by just not spending it all away, more or less, and actually watching Yeah.

Okay. And again, it's really good to hear these words of wisdom so that people can realize, hey, you don't have to be 40, 50, 60 years old in order to start having good financial sense. It starts at home. It starts where you are. It starts at whatever age you are, quite frankly. And I'm curious, what kind of support system did you have going through these early stages of business?

I would say the different people which I knew sort of helped in terms of like, we would bounce back ideas back and forth within like different groups I was in. That certainly helped. But I mean, I think the biggest thing was just belief in terms of like that I can actually achieve different things. Some might call it almost like irrational, but like I truly believed that like I would achieve success in terms of like what I did if I put in the effort. And I think it almost takes that level when you're first starting a business, almost like in a rational sense, because people will question you and stuff like that. It's inevitable, especially if they've never done it themselves. But I always look at it like this— that applies to anything, whether it's sports, whether it's business, whether it's anything like that— is that if you're starting something new, people, people will question it, and that's okay. Um, it's just part of the, part of the thing, because if someone's never done something, how can you expect them to not be skeptical? Versus if you see someone who's actually been in the industry for a long time and you're like, hey, I'm doing this, they'd be like, okay, just keep at it. Like, that's the most common thing. But for people who've never been in the actual industry, they'll be like, oh, I don't know if this is going to work. Is this industry legitimate? I don't know. You get all these things and stuff like that. But yeah, it's just keeping going despite those things.

Exactly, man. And you are spot on. Spot on. I'm curious, and I'll just ask one more question before we start to land the plane here with some of my pointed questions. Growing up, who would you say was the person that you looked up to the most?

I mean, it would definitely be like Warren Buffett for sure. I mean, I respect a lot of like the way he goes about doing business and stuff. And I still enjoy like investing money into like the stock market and stuff like that. And it's kind of like one of my skills in a way. Like I know exactly how to find like good stocks and I've I've almost like when it comes to stocks, I whenever I actually use like the key principles and stuff like that, I don't think I've ever had like a single losing stock. So that, that's what, that's what I kind of have learned a lot from is like Warren Buffett in particular.

Okay. Okay. That's pretty impressive. And again, looking forward to more of those tips coming out soon. So, Aiden, we're getting to the top of the hour and just want to really again, thank you for coming on. I've got some questions that I like to ask towards the end of the show. The first one is pretty straightforward. Oftentimes, again, in business, we're always first name, last name. Seldom do we find the chance to reconnect with more than just that. So my question to you is pretty simple. What's your middle name?

My middle name is Christopher.

Christopher. Okay. Does Christopher have a story to it? Is it a family name handed down?

Yeah, just my father's name. Like it just passed down as it was all. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. Perfect. Aidan Christopher.

Cool.

Like AC, like the cool breeze, man. You've moved on in here, dropped some nuggets on us, and then we're gonna wrap it up with you ultimately providing something to the listeners. So I just want to quiet myself for a minute or two and just give you the opportunity to speak whatever's on your heart, whatever's on your mind. I just talk to the listeners, tell them what you want them to know.

Sure. So I would say if you're looking to go about doing stuff, you should go out and actually focus and do it. And the most important thing is, is focus. Like, that's like the most important thing. It's you're the average of everything you do. So sometimes people think like, oh, I could just put in all this action today. I don't have to do as much tomorrow. I would say it's much, much better just to have like a solid, good middle ground in terms of like what's actually sustainable and what you're doing. And that can be in relation to anything, whether it's wealth, you know, business, whether it's regards to anything like that. But always looking at yourself as like a pendulum, like it might swing up, might swing down, but you want to keep the average keep going higher and become better, like 1% every single day. And if you do that over a consistent period of time, you almost become like a whole different person over time. And that's one of the key things I've learned is it's not about who you are right now. It's about who you're becoming. And if you don't like— if you let other people control who you are, then you're not really like living your true life. And unfortunately, I see a lot of people who are not actually their true self in terms of like what they could have become. So you want to constantly be evolving because you're a creature evolving. And sometimes people are like, well, what do you mean I'm evolving? Like, I'm like a totally different person. Like every single year you look different. You're different than you were like when you were a baby. People are constantly evolving and changing. Sometimes people ask me like, who are you? And I'm like, the better question is, who are you becoming? Because you should be constantly changing and becoming a better individual every single day. And that should apply to every single aspect of your life. And you should does not have downsides, because when you teach yourself like, hey, I'm just gonna slack, I'm just gonna do nothing and stuff like that, that's a bad lesson. And that could apply to anything. That could apply to procrastination. Sometimes people think like, oh, I could procrastinate in terms of my— I don't know, in terms of stuff I'm doing around the house or doing whatever. And that, that actually, that same type of attitude comes back to you when it comes to business, because the same type of laziness that comes back to you. So what you do in one aspect of life essentially has an impact throughout every aspect of life. So you want to kind of look at it from that point of view. And if you do it like that, then you will, you will definitely become a better person.

Excellent. Excellent. Ladies and gentlemen, there is no age limit on wisdom, activity, belief, growth. Again, this gentleman started these ventures over 5 years ago, right? So we're talking late teens, early 20s. Uh, if you're out there and you are late 20s, early 30s, late 30s, early 40s, late 40s, early 50s, uh, realize that now is still the perfect time to get started, right? The perfect time to get started. So for those individuals that might want to learn more about you, Aiden, what's the best way for our listeners to get in contact and again, keep in touch?

They can find me on LinkedIn, um, Aiden Soa on LinkedIn, also Instagram at the Aiden Soa. Um, those are probably the best ways to kind of learn more about me. And if they're looking to learn about ZotoDialer, they can visit the zotodialer.co website, um, where they can check out that.

Perfect. Perfect. We'll make sure to have those in the notes. Again, Aiden, it has been a fantastic time connecting here on today. Thank you so much for making, again, your presence known in such a strong way on our show. I'm really looking forward to keeping in touch and learning more about you, Xodo Dialer, along the way. And heck, you might even have a new customer on the way. So thank you again for joining us. To all the listeners out there, this has been Aiden Soa, again CEO and founder of Xodo Dialer, and this episode of The Everyday Entrepreneur on the Pope Replays podcast show. We are now calling a wrap. Thank you all for listening. Until next time.