I Interviewed THE FOUNDER of Overflow Nation and Here's What I Learned

Welcome everybody, my name is Paul H. Flowers Jr. and this is another episode of the Popa Replays podcast show. Today we have on the founder of Overflow Nation, Mr. Billy Fowler. Amazingly excited to connect with you, Billy. How are you, my friend?

Super excited to be here. Uh, I'm looking forward to spending time with you this morning.

Excellent. Thank you so much. Well, you know what, Billy, we're just gonna hop right in. Of course, you, you're an author, you've got an executive career. That's some years past. And right now in your present, you are leading a movement. If you would, Billy, go ahead and tell the listeners about this movement, why it's important, and then we'll dive into some of the historical parts.

Absolutely. So, so my name is Billy Fowler and, uh, this is Overflow Nation. And we're not a charity, we're not a non-for-profit, we're not a church, we're a movement. Uh, we basically awaken leaders, unlock potential, and transfer wealth, uh, if you will, through identity, action, and activation. So that's, that's it in a nutshell.

I like that. Identity, action, and affirmation. Was that the third one?

Activation.

Activation. Activation. So I got to get my ears checked. Um, so let's talk about those three, those three steps. Uh, identity. We have enough time, enough trouble, excuse me, generally speaking, uh, trying to figure out who we are just to navigate through life, let alone take it into a movement. How would you say, Billy, that a person actually works on who they are at their core?

Yeah, so within, within Overflow Nation, we have a gated system. And so we work on, we always have our ambassadors work on messaging. So you'll hear my answers feel like a lot like a quarterback, quarterback snap. So, and that's, that's all intentional by the way. So I think that in our gated system, we have 4 gates and the first gate is faith. I'll say what they are and I'll go back and define them. The second gate is education. The second gate or the third gate is justice and recovery. And then the last gate is economic empowerment. And so let's go back to the first gate, uh, to answer your identity question. The first gate is faith. And I say that because we're not a church, we're not a soup kitchen, right? We're not trying to fix, uh, anyone. We're trying to create, uh, create a system for you. And I think that that's a different— a blueprint. And so I don't want people to disengage themselves or not see the importance in praying and things like that, but this is not what this is. And so if you feel the need to pray, I think by all means go ahead and do that. But I think that you should understand your connection with a higher power. And I'll leave it there. And I think that when we do create our mentors and through our ambassador program, we have a 9-week ambassador program, we do bake that into the process, but we don't lead with that. We just want you to understand that there are mitigating circumstances out here that we believe as founders that drive us at the soul of our seat. That's the first thing. So the second, the, the, the second, uh, um, gate education is we have partnered with, uh, Ivy League schools like MIT and also Harvard. And so we believe that, so we created an agency with, because I come from, uh, executive background in HR, uh, I've had some relationships. So I've created an Ivy kind of a, um, an agency within Overflow Nation. So you go through our program, you get certified. Specifically in AI. And then we act as a repository for startups and other businesses that wanna launch quickly, scale, how to use funnels and things like that. So then obviously we're a higher price ticket, but at the same token, you get the best of the best. So you have out, you have other systems like Fiverr if you want to, you know, dabble in that from, uh, graphic design, you have Upwork, and then you have other platforms. We are more of a boutique style specifically for those that are really trying to launch quickly. And then, so, and then the economic, I'll do the justice last, but the economic empowerment, 'Cause once you get that certification, you know, then you understand how to get set up into our agency. And then the last thing would be Justice in Recovery. We work specifically with people that are domestic violence situation, not so much, you know, the abused individuals, but the ones that are emotionally damaged. And I don't wanna use the word damaged, but individuals that feel that they're stuck for the rest of their life in a relationship that they don't know how to get out. And by the way, Paul H. Flowers Jr. It's split up 50/50, it's male and female. So you, you would think that, wow, primarily females. No, there's a lot of males that are in these relationships that don't know how to get out. And so we work with you, we, we ninja ourselves into your life, and we give you the— and the best way to do that is to log on to www.overflownation.com, sign up, drop us an email if you want to get onto the email subscription, or just, you know, give us a call.

Now you touched on something, and of course the month that we're in is not just Mental Health Awareness Month, but it's also Women's History Month. So bringing up a thing like domestic violence inside of the Justice and Recovery portion of your program, it, it strikes to me the question of why and/or how you decided to focus on that particular aspect of effectively relationships and/or human psychology, because that's a, that's a heavy lift. Right. For a lot of people being able to find their way out of abusive relationships, things of that nature, whether it be a male or female. So what was it for you that said, hey, this is the area, or this is the type of person that I want to make sure that we can reach out to and provide that assistance?

Yes. Excellent question. So I spent over 20 years in, uh, human resources from notable companies like Home Depot, AutoZone, Sherwin-Williams, and, you know, these director level and above executive positions. And so I have a lot of data to pull from specifically involving employee engagement. And so, and I've had the, you know, on my way up as you, as a pup, I, you know, I started off as we all do as a journalist. And within that role, I did a lot of investigation, employee investigation. So I've had a lot of closed-door conversations with both males and females. And so I can pull from that data and I can understand. They say if you do something over 10,000 times, you become an expert. So I've done this for over 20 years and so well over 10,000 hours. And so, so within that, I can clearly say that, you know, our, our ecosystem, um, you know, we're not trained to be married, you know, we're not trained to be in these relationships, you know, we fall in love when we go, we go do our life thing. And so because of that, people bring that into the workplace and then, you know, they're, and they're shattered and something, and because we get damaged, and I think we're creating monsters within our own communities. And I think that somebody needs to, somebody needs to help. And I think that these are, these, these shelters act as a hub, but they don't necessarily— I think they get a lot of burnout, the turnover is high, you know. I used to manage turnover and retention. And so you look at, you look at just the individuals managing these shops, these, these shelter shops that, I mean, they in and out. People have the passion to get in, but when you start dealing with the grappling with the day-to-day grind and some of the, and some of the things that come your way, these workshops I call them, uh, you know, the burnout is high. And most of these people, you know, they have high aspirations when they start working there. But me being an HR guy, yes, I had teams at the latter part of my career, but in the initial phases, that was me driving a lot of those, like, tell me a little bit about who you are, tell me, oh wow, you're going. So I'm doing these investigations Wow, this is really, you know, they were happy when they got the job, but then a year into it, you know, they're going through divorce. And so, you know, what, tell me a little bit more about that. And then, and then when they open up, I mean, it just shattered lives. And so that's, that, that's the data that pulled all this together.

Okay. Okay. So it was more of a data-driven, you know, sometimes people have those experiences themselves. And I was just curious because that's one of those things that it seems like, why, why this portion, right? There's, there's parenting and there's all sorts of other things that a person could have. There's family, uh, issues when it comes to raising your, or taking care of your aging parents, which is a newer thing that we're getting a lot of data on these years. So definitely just curious, and thanks so much for shedding some light on that. So let's kind of go back to go forward and look at who is Billy Fowler. Uh, so Billy, talk to us about you, meaning where you come from, how you started that path in HR, and again, we'll dive further in from there.

Yeah, so, um, yes, I'm a Midwesterner, so I'm from Michigan. I went to my— both my sets of, uh, my mother's Parents and my grand— and my father's parents both had farms. And so I was raised in a small town in Michigan, right outside of Ann Arbor and Lansing, Jackson, Michigan. And within that, so I, you know, I did the whole 4-H thing, and I saw a lot of giving coming up. You know, I saw my— literally both sets of my grandparents give a lot. And I think that that started my evolution and my thought process on how I should approach life. And I saw you know, families that, you know, we were the difference, you know, whether this livestock or this, you know, these vegetables were the difference for them eating in a particular month. And so I saw lives change at 5, 6, 7, and 8 years old. And then, you know, joining 4-H and kind of being, being that kid that was somewhat of a nerd, you know, you wanted to be cool, but at the same token, you know, you brought a lot of values in. I seen a lot of values early, you know, parents staying together, still married, both sets of, you know, grandparents married. So I saw my great-grandmother, I was raised with her. I've been through high school. I saw a lot of love coming up, and, you know, it wasn't my— nobody was scared to give me a hug. And, and so because of that, I, I had basic, like, the core genesis of who I became in life. And now in my 50s— I'm 53, um, you know— I was able to really clearly identify, uh, what that looks like from a, you know, love perspective. So I went to undergrad in Columbus, Ohio, majored in human resources management. So— one of those few unicorns out there that didn't move around. I actually stayed in my career the entire time. Majored, minored in diversity before it was cool and before it left. And then I actually got an MBA in Benedictine there in Lisle, Illinois, focusing on finance. And so, you know, I worked for Navistar early in my career all throughout the United States. That's actually what brought me to Chicago. Spent the bulk of my career in Chicago. Organizational development, labor relations, Worked for Home Depot, oversaw Chicago stores there in Northlake and out around Chicago. Worked for AutoZone, supported multiple states. I worked for Sears and Hoffman Estates out there. And I actually oversaw— that's kind of my largest scope. I saw the entire US, 13 distribution centers, and 4 of those were unionized. And then also I worked for Sherwin-Williams for 5 years in Philadelphia as a divisional HR guy supporting about $3.5 billion right before they purchased Valspar. When you walk into Lowe's. And then also my parents Parents actually own an aerospace plant in Michigan, and they've had it— my father used to be an engineer for Eaton Aerospace, and my mother used to be an accountant for Kellogg's. They formed this company, Nondestructive Testing, uh, and so they do work for Boeing, Lockheed Martin, etc. I was the HRD for them for several years, and then, uh, a private equity firm out of Atlanta overseeing, um, you know, uh, the facilities management as an executive. So over 20 years in HR, and it's been good to me. And so when you think about a movement and how did that get discovered, as part of your other question, uh, just, I think we all have evolution, and we have to, we have to sit down and look at our soul, and our soul will continue talking to us. And as you start to, uh, I, I, I believe in having contracts because I'm an HR guy, so I have a contract with myself. And I think, I believe, and I teach people to have a contract with themselves, and I think that the real you is going to show up somewhere in your life and your integrity and your ability to lead with high intent. And I think all that's part of who you are. And so you think about the Ambassador Program, all the things, all the programs I put together, it wasn't hard for me to put this together. It's just getting people to understand. And so the book was a direct result of— I read a book years ago called The Secret. And so most people have read The Secret. It's— if you were to summarize the book, In one word, it would be manifestation. My book, um, it's, uh, if I could summarize that book, it would be activation. And so it's where The Secret left off, and it takes you through individuals' lives, people that you can connect with from corporate to people in prisons, uh, to single mothers, uh, and there's a workbook after that. And so within that, within those 9 weeks, uh, you read the book, you go through 9 weeks. Part of that, part of that program is a 100-hour reset. And what a 100-hour Reset is, is 100-hour fast. And so you fast for 4 days and 4 hours. And so within that, there's things that happen scientifically to your body, and there's a reason why I tell people to fast. And, and so, and, and so within that, you're going to have ketosis, a lot of things that happen within your toxins in your body, new blood cells. And so we walk you through that process every step of the way. And then when you get out of the 9-week program, you'll be armed with what you need to be successful because you want to hear clarity. And if I could summarize with that, and I'll shut up, is in the mornings we take these showers or any, you know, and we get this clarity. And so the fast, that entire time after day 2, you had that consistent clarity. And so wouldn't it be cool to be able to tap into that? I'm not talking about intermittent fast, you know, people say, oh, I can't do it, right? Well, stick with me because you can do it. And I think that we don't have enough people in our community telling us that we can do it, you know. A lot of times we believe in that. I'm a big fan of David Goggins. David Goggins, you know, to take away a lot of some of the profanity, but David Goggins said, let's just get to the root cause of it. And so rather than say, you know, you may be overweight, no, you're fat. And so the same thing with this program is I'm not going to call you fat, but the whole point of it is rather than say you can't, you can.

So candid conversation, you bring up a gentleman like David Goggins, and I can't help but come up with that phrase, candid conversation. So, uh, first and foremost, thank you for sharing that, kind of going back down memory lane. You've done everything from, again, smaller outfits all the way up to some of the largest outfits that this country knows, and that many people that are going to listen to this podcast that are at least here state-based have actually touched on the works of what you've been able to accomplish. So I want to touch on a few things before we circle back around to the program. Because again, we do want to provide that, that pathway for people to essentially know that they can do this thing. Now, you went through several years of schooling, and this might be a touch of a controversial question, uh, but I do like to put these things out there, namely because we had a guest and, and this really sparked this line of thought that in that conversation, the guest mentioned that they never heard the word referral. In their business program. And I thought that was pretty interesting. He said 4 years of business school, hadn't heard a thing about referrals or wasn't really taught about that. So ended up authoring a book along those lines. And in your experience, Billy, if you would share with us how the program either did improve— excuse me, how, how your educational programs actually did prepare you for, again, the track of success that you've had over those 20 years. And, and this is the piece that I really want you to hone in on. What lessons did that MBA not prepare you for? Meaning where were the gaps in terms of things that you encountered but didn't expect to and that weren't necessarily prepared for classically training-wise?

Yeah. Excellent questions. I always say the questions you ask yourself control what you focus on. So you're, you're definitely, uh, built with wisdom. So I, I think that the first aspect is, from a referral base. I believe that everything we do in life is based upon sponsorship. That's even biblical. So everything, uh, in a biblical sense and in life, you have to— in sports, everybody has an agent or a sponsor. So, and again, understanding who you are and talking to your, your— who you are as yourself, who are you, who can, who can you tap into? So for me, uh, I was always cognizant of that. And so, um, There were times within my career, and you can actually, you know, reach out to people that I know that were peers, how did you manage to go through the ranks so quickly? Because I remember a point in my career where I noticed there was not a lot of people trying to, um, have me sit at the table with them. And so I had to literally create— this is way before AI— I had to create my own questions. I'd type them up, and I'd literally walk over to a cube of an executive and set it down and say, or, you know, I'd actually do a primer first. Listen, I'd love to do lunch with you. And people Most people say, oh sure, absolutely. And then when they see a sheet of paper with 10 questions on it, like, did you just say this? I'm like, I did. I said, that's just, you know, what I want to talk about during our coffee session. Wow. And so the question would be so deliberate and intentional. It wouldn't be anything about me moving up. It's just like, how do you stay relevant? And, you know, how do you do what you do? And that's it. And then so, and these were C-level individuals, right? But I wanted them talking about me and their 9-box conversations in their succession plan meeting. I wanted them to talk about me. And so in order to do that, you have to inject yourself into their life when they're sitting down with their children having cereal in the morning. You want them thinking like, wow, what's that Paul guy? What, what is he? That's interesting. Just a quick thought. But the whole point of it is, is, and, and in terms of gaps are concerned, um, from an MBA perspective, actually for me, I actually did a lot of due diligence on looking for my program. So I actually got a lot of the, uh, so a lot of my ideas from my MBA program for my movement. But so we'll talk, it's twofold. So from a career perspective, gaps that I see. Um, well, with, with Benedictine, you actually were part of an inner circle where you, you ran a company for 2 years. So you— they form circles where you were CEO, you rotated every semester, CEO, CFO, COO, CTO. So you, you rotated so you could sit in those seats. So, and make sure you own those responsibilities from a key performance indicator. So from all KPIs, you're measuring those. So when you get it back into your role, a lot of us were working adults, so we could actually maneuver through a lot of these, uh, day-to-day situations. So I think that was deliberate from, you know, Benedictine's part. So I really didn't see a lot of gaps. He just— our instructors were so good that they let us know that you have to roll up your sleeves, you got to figure it out. And I think that's the best way I'd answer that question.

Okay, well, shout out to Benedictine for actually having a program that puts such emphasis on being able to navigate virtually all areas that a person that does strive to and/or endeavor to be in one of those C-suite positions that can actually get that practical experience. So again, shout out to, uh, to Benedictine. It's not a sponsorship, ladies and gents. Uh, they're not paying me for that. I just really respect, uh, that particular way the program went. So again, I want to touch on a couple of things in, in terms of both the movement and you as a person. You'd mentioned the very first, one of the first aspects of the 9-week program being, uh, faith, one of the 4 components being faith. Uh, when did faith for you stop being just a belief thing? And what made you want to use that as a strategy to actually help yourself and others become successful?

Yes. Outside of my parents owning, you know, that aerospace plant, uh, my mother, uh, you know, we all have our things that we enjoy. So she's actually— she has a PhD in, uh, theology. And so she's written, you know, a few books. And, and so I was raised by this woman. And so, very, very connected to giving. And I think that she gives thousands of dollars to organizations and to people. And so, I've learned over the years that the true essence or the genesis behind her prosperity is a direct linkage to giving. And I think for me, the spiritual shift was— and I don't want people to, you know, go left and say, well, oh, this is just a an opportunity to start a church. No, it has zero to do with— matter of fact, I started off my, my lead-in with this was I'm not a church, I'm not a charity, not a nonprofit, right? And so, um, I just believe what's so different about this program is that we, um— and I'm actually give you kind of sneak peek into another book we're writing— is structural giving. And so most people give without anything to receive. What we teach through our program is we actually have you create an Excel spreadsheet where one column is specifically the date time and what you actually gave. And then we actually have another column on when you receive that linkage directly as a result of what you just gave. So if you have 10— so we actually tell you, so we teach you how to give. But first of all, so you— and some of this is very broad, you know, the swath is, you know, you give to an organization and, you know, not-for-profits. And then you'll specifically— we teach you how to give to a family that's in need that you're going to watch. You're going to go drive in your car, you're going to activate something, you're going to go drive, you're going to go look for somebody in a restaurant. We're gonna— you're gonna look in there, you're not just gonna get give somebody that appears to look like they're wealthy. You're going to give somebody that you feel in your heart that you should give. And you're going to tell that waiter, tell that restaurant, we're gonna, we're gonna do that in the restaurant, you're gonna do that in gas station. And so what, what we're doing is you're creating an overflow in all aspects of your life, because if there's spiritual laws comprised within each one of these— and the reason why we have lack, we're not activating in our life, is because we don't understand, I'm on how to manifest, how to activate. And that's all through giving. But then there's other things after you give, like when you start getting this abundance of things, then you burn through this money. You know, cuz if you want to, you want to give money, you gotta, if you wanna receive money, you gotta give money. And so when you start getting this, this funnel and all, I think a lot. And so there's some learning there. That's why we have that economic empowerment. Like what do you do when you get that? Cause you're gonna get, you're gonna be blessed. You're gonna have, and this time, like the book says, abundance stays. Mm. Man, it's right on the front cover.

So, and, uh, Billy, you, you are a powerful, powerful man. Uh, you mentioned something that I wanna hone in on just a little bit. Well, you know, let me, let me go back cuz it, it touched my soul to, to talk about this story. Structured giving, and we need to learn how to give and then ultimately be able to draw a linkage between the things and/or things, the thing or things, whether it be money or time or whatever that we're giving, and then how that comes back. Like, that causes a person to do a lot of introspection where they ordinarily might not look at and/or link the things, you know, one begets the other type of thing. So I'm, I'm just going to put you on the spot here for a second. I was in the store actually 24 hours ago, not even 24 hours ago, and as I'm at the register, a gentleman is behind me. He's got blueberries and he's got ground turmeric and he's got a few dollars in his hand and he whispers to me. I didn't realize that he was attempting to get my attention, but he kind of says to me, you know, hey man, I, um, you know, I got enough for the blueberries and, and I don't want to, I don't want to steal. So, you know, would you be able to get this turmeric for me? Because he saw I had a belt full of things. So I looked at him and I said, okay. I just grabbed the turmeric. I asked the gentleman to scan the turmeric, and then I said, hey, this is for him, let's just go ahead and give it back to him. So he said, okay, no problem. So then I got my total, and then I looked back at the blueberries on the belt, and I just grabbed them and said, hey, go ahead and scan these too, and let me go ahead and put the stuff in the bag. And we basically just sent the gentleman on his way. So how— and this is again, now, now the point of question, just again, kind of putting you on the spot a little bit— how would I draw the linkage to that with something else in my life? And, and I namely say that because this is a grocery store and I'm likely to never see that gentleman again. You know, I can vaguely remember what he looks like, But, but for me, it wasn't about getting a scan of them and noting when he's going to come to prominence or whatever. How would I be able to draw a linkage to that action that I— not that it was nothing, right? But because I care about people. But how would I draw an action, a linkage between that and something else that might come up in my life?

So it's all directly related to the output. So in this case, it was money. So in other instances, it may be clothes,. It may be a vehicle, it may be even a house. You know, some wealthy people actually give houses away. And so I think that is the ultimate, um, result of the output. So that's, that's the question. So if you— so the amount of money that you spent on that individual is the amount of money that you should be looking for in your next column in your Excel spreadsheet. And then the time. And then I think that you'll see it tenfold, or— and sometimes, you know, you know, even, even more than that. But we teach you to be even more deliberate, and that's— I think that's fantastic that you did that.. But we're teaching individuals that, where are you? Because in the book, where are you lacking at? That's one of the chapters of where you lack, finding your lack. And let's identify all those things, and then now let's create outpouring and all those. So now we're going to teach you to go— so everybody's lack is going to be different, you know. We have wealthy people, we have people that are struggling. And so, but we're not a charity, so we're not here to start paying people's bills. We're going to show you right now. So if you're homeless, and the reason why we— I think we believe in this world we have homeless, and we, we want to reach a million lives by the end of— by 12/31/2025, through Overflow. And so the reason why we have a lot of those homeless is because we have— we don't have a lot of giving. I think that's just, you know, we talk about the deficit, we talk about, you know, $3.5 trillion. Well, it's a direct result of failing to give. And so that, that's it.

I mean, you know, so, okay, now you've, you've built this. So now we're going to hop into the movement, um, because we got to start landing the plane, so to speak. Uh, you've built a movement around overflow, and of course, like I said, we like to touch on some of the personal things. And man, you, like I said, you, you, we're gonna have to have another conversation, uh, Billy, for sure, because I definitely want to bring you on for Author's Alley and really hone in on the book itself, because I know that you can— you've likely dropped a ton of nuggets within those pages, and I really like to get to know you and your works better. So we're going to bring you back for Author's Alley as another segment here on the Pope Replace podcast show. But yeah, you built a movement around Overflow. And I got a question about that. You know, can you recall a moment where, uh, in your own life personally, you might have felt empty and how that void may have fueled your mission to bring this overflow into the lives of others?

Yeah. Can you hear me okay?

I can. Yeah. Yeah.

So, and that's, that's a great question. You ask a lot of great questions. I think that, uh, for me, you know, as, as Although I had that good fundamental, um, background from my parents and grandparents and great-grandparents, and I saw the giving going on, you still feel like as a young man you don't necessarily have a blueprint. You know, you feel like, you know, you're raised in a house about it, and then when you get out, then, you know, you know, you— there's this love thing that you have to tackle, then there's this job thing, then there's— and then there's just like, how do you connect the dots? And I think that that's where I wanted to pull this together for individuals. I have 3 boys, they're in their late 20s and early 30s. And so we have empty nest now. But I think that, you know, having, you know, raised boys and then, you know, then now I have nieces and nephews. I think that it's just watching and observing my life over the years and like, man, if I had— I remember a time because I did come from such a small town and, you know, I was kind of a country guy. I, I do think that, um, I can remember saying, man, how do you make it, you know, in this world? How do you really— how do you become— I can— before the internet, I was thinking maybe I should just try to, you know, collide with somebody at a gas station that appears to be wealthy and just ask them like, hey, can you mentor me? Or, you know, I want to be successful, what do I need to do to be successful? And I think that those type of questions started to, uh, and started to, uh, you know bubble up inside of me as I got older. And then as I started mentoring people in the corporate world, I started seeing that. And then people started asking me, can you mentor, whether it was in different organizations. And I found myself being mentored from various people throughout my life and corporate career, how to write better, how to speak better. There's a period in my life where I became, you know, one of the gold standards of Toastmasters. And I've done, you know, a ton of speaking in front of individuals that don't look like me. And I think that those are some of the reasons why and some some of the, I guess you call the holes that I needed to fill so that the next wave of our, of our generations that come after us can, can, can see things clear.

I love it. I love it. And shout out to Toastmasters. I'm a huge fan, been in the organization for close to 2 decades, if not more. And it definitely makes a difference. Now, you brought something up and it was quick and it was subtle. And this is actually the second time you touched on this a slightly different way once before. So I want to bring that back full circle for the listeners. You'd mentioned doing a lot of speaking in front of people who don't look like you. And then also at the time in which you were beginning to ascend from a corporate standpoint, you talked about how you had to inject yourself into those people's thoughts because many people didn't want you to sit at that table. Now, for my Audible listeners out there that aren't looking at this, again, I urge you to go ahead and check us out on the YouTube version of this show. Uh, but Mr. Fowler here is a person of color. So just briefly, if we could talk about some of the challenges that that might have presented to you and how you overcame any of those nagging voices and/or external forces that because of, again, being a person of color, they ultimately, uh, you know, attempted to prohibit you from getting certain accesses.

Yeah. So I, I did a, I did a panel, um, panel interview at Temple University in Pennsylvania not too long ago, and I had a— I was— it was very diverse, and some of these questions came up. And one of the questions that came up on the panel, and I was the only African American on the panel, was, you know, how should I look? Should I— can I wear my braids? And, and, and so then I, I had, uh, access to a big screen behind me, and I had the, um, AV person, audiovisual person, to go to— I said, what company would you more want to work at? I said, you just name it. And they gave a company. I'm not going to say the company's name. It was a publicly traded company. And I said, now go to the board of directors. I said, now go to the board of directors. And so they would. So they had a board of directors. And I go to the pictures so you can see the board of directors. And then I said, now, do anybody look like me on that board? And they're like, no. Does anybody look like you with braids? He said, no. Does anybody have facial hair? And he says, no. I said, so what do you see? What's the common theme that you They said, somebody said professionalism. Somebody said, and another thing, you know, we talked about how do you dress? Either wear white shirts or blue shirts. That's it. Light blue or white. That's all I, that's all I wore when I was in corporate. And, and so teaching people how to understand, if you're in Rome, what are you going to dress like? You're going to show up with Jordans and parachute pants? Are you going to show up wearing a toga? You know, so you got to understand how to dress and, and also how to groom yourself. And I think that's all part of that that culture that you say you want to work at. This is not your culture. You get to start your own culture, you get to do your own thing. But if you want to inject yourself into another culture, you have to understand. So the best way is, right, don't go to the frontline management, don't go to the mid-level managers, don't even go to the, to the directors. Go to the board of directors who's running the company, who also has another board that they speak to. So, and then that, that's a whole nother— now become the investors. And so we got investors running a company, then you have the board of directors, and you have the VPs, you got the directors. So a lot of times people start the either the VPs or start the directors and say, well, I know a VP. We're not talking about the exact— we're talking about the board of directors, the people that are running the company that the VP is speaking to at the board. And so I know people that have tattoos on their neck that were not able to get promoted. I know people that over my career, right? And so you have to make some personal decisions. And so, and so now people say, well, I don't like it. I said, you don't have to work for these companies. But I've had— there you go. That, listen, if you want to work for this company, I got to present to this board, and there's certain things that they want. And, and you don't get to meet those board of directors. You get to meet the VPs. And I think that— so having that information, armed with that, I think that's— those are some of the reasons why I made this decision that I made.

Excellent, excellent. Well, again, just in respect to time, we're hitting up on the top of the hour here. So, Billy, a couple things. Uh, one, it's a question I'd like to ask all of my guests just to open them up a little bit and be a little bit more transparent about who they are. There's some context to the question, and basically It's that a middle name typically is something that you usually don't share, especially on things like resumes and in professional settings. It's usually first name, last name. So if you would, so that my listeners would get to know a little bit about who is Billy Fowler. Billy, what's your middle name?

John.

Billy John Fowler. And is there a story behind John?

Yeah, it's interesting. You ask some really good questions. So my, my grandfather's name was John. He never had a son. And, and so. My father's name is Billy, so they just said, why don't you call him Billy John Fowler? And I think that's really the quick and easy of it. I, I was teased because I was, you know, farmer guy and then Billy John. I said, I told my parents, listen, if you wanted to think of something country, you were successful. You were successful.

Spot on.

So you can imagine a young kid, you know, diverse, you know, in, in the Midwest, farm, Billy John. Oh yeah, people had fun. And I, you know, I wanted to be cool, but I guess I didn't fall— I didn't go to that school.

Oh man, not a problem. I think you're the coolest cat in school right now. So, all right, and then last but not least, Billy, I want this last minute to be just you speaking directly to the audience, you know, no question per se from me to guide you. Just if you would share with them your best words of wisdom and something that might inspire them to move forward.

Yeah, so I, I think that if you are listening this today and you're looking for some true inspiration, I think that you, you are your inspiration. I think that you, uh, in the mirror and when nobody's looking, I think that you need to have that encouragement. And I think that it's good that you're listening and you listen to these podcasts and you probably have Audible and you have all these— you're surrounding yourself with good information, I think. But you need to tap more into yourself. And I think that, uh, there is a higher calling for you. And I think the more you start to tap into that, I think that you're going to understand a spiritual connection and a spiritual contract that you're going to make with your soul. And I think that when, when that happens Look out world, because you're coming.

And Billy, thank you so much for being a guest on our show here. This has been a fantastic episode, and I'm looking forward to having you back so that we can really dive into your book. For now, how can the listeners reach you? What's the best way for them to contact you, follow you again, be a part of this movement?

Yeah, so the best way is just to visit the website, that's www.overflownation.com, and then in that aspect you'll have an opportunity to subscribe to a newsletter. You can drop in your email, or you can just give us a call.

Excellent, excellent. Well, again, thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure having you here on the Pulp Replays podcast show. Again, I'm your host, Paul H. Flowers Jr., and we are looking forward to further connections and introspections here and in many years. Thank you all, listeners. Bye for now.