What Makes a GREAT Leader? Expert Advice on Influence and Integrity

Hello and welcome everyone to another episode of The Everyday Entrepreneur. I'm your host, Paul H. Flowers Jr., and we have with us on the esteemed show, the Popa Replays podcast show, of course, we have Dr. Andy Neely. Now make sure when you reach out to him you pronounce that last name correctly. It is Andy Neely. Dr. Andy, welcome to the show. Good morning to you. How are you, my friend?

I'm doing great and excited to have a great conversation with you about entrepreneurship. Thanks for having me.

Absolutely. And how we open up is really simple for the listeners out there. Andy, give them a quick snapshot of where you've been, where you're at, and where you're going, and then we'll dive in from there.

Sure. Sure. Well, like a lot of entrepreneurs, Paul, I wear a couple of different hats. I have an elite leadership group. I do keynotes and workshops and conferences and coaching. I've got 5 million frequent flyer miles from jetting all over the world for the last 25 years, primarily doing leadership workshops for companies and small businesses and some Fortune 500s. But the part that you and I really connected on because you talk to entrepreneurs so much The other side of my life, I've, I've grown and built a multi-unit $5 million franchise business here in Central Texas where we live. So, so I, I lead a team of managers, uh, in our franchise businesses, and then I talk to leaders and managers about growing as leaders in my consulting side of business. So totally different businesses, but there's a nice, uh, a nice integration between the two.

Absolutely. And even more about that integration, you're not just talking to people about it. You're not just speaking about it on stage and stepping into the boardroom and convincing people with a fancy PowerPoint. You're actually taking tried and true methodologies that not only have you done, but you're also currently doing. So if you would, Dr. Andy, talk to us about how important it is to walk the walk.

Yeah, well, You know, you and I could tell stories for the rest of our podcast about the mistakes we've made, right? That's—

Oh, absolutely.

Well, the funny thing is I, I now kind of sit in a little bit of an elder statesman position with people at times, and, and they just tell me I've got so much business acumen and wisdom. And Paul, the truth of the matter is I've made so many stupid mistakes growing our small business over the years. And, you know, that old, that old humorous adage, the only way you get smart is through experience, and the only way you get good experiences through making bad decisions. And, and I've, I've learned the hard way for 15 years. Ultimately, you know, you got to have hard conversations. Ultimately, you've got to make decisions that are in the best interest of both your people and the organization. Ultimately, you've got to recognize a high degree of humility because in today's fast-paced economy and, and culture, nobody ever gets everything right. And so I I think part of it is remaining in some respects humble and agile, realizing, man, I'm not as smart as everybody sometimes thinks I am.

Well, that in and of itself, we are calling you Dr. Andy. So you are kind of smart.

Well, the interesting thing is I got my doctorate in leadership development about 15 years ago now, about the same time my wife and I were launching these franchise businesses and And I had all this leadership theory, Paul, and it was more than theory. It was tested. But, but really the hothouse has been the last 15 years of, of working with a management team and growing a customer-facing business and realizing the challenges of, of employees and customers and landlords and vendors and debt and cash flow and all of those challenges that the entrepreneurs who follow you you know, we struggle with day by day, right?

Absolutely. Absolutely. So let's go back to go forward. We've talked— we've actually— I've heard it now twice. So anytime I hear a key number of years, it's something to really hone in on because you're 15 years into the real estate franchising journey, right? And there's somebody right now that's in year 2, that's in year 4, and they want to make sure that they can get past that crucial 5-year point. So if you would, tell us about the beginnings of that. Of course, you did it with your wife, so please bring in some of the familial side too and how important that relationship is. But tell us about the beginnings of that real estate franchising business.

Well, I'm sorry if I missed out, we lease real estate, but we actually are part of the AquaTots Swim School franchise network. So there's 170 of them globally. And, and I'll tell you the very quick fun family story, Paul, because I know you're all about family integration as well. Our daughter, who today is 33 years old, when she was 2, my wife found a young lifeguard to come to our backyard swimming pool. We were living in Phoenix, Arizona at the time, and Mr. Ron the lifeguard and his girlfriend Miss Jane showed up in our backyard pool to teach our little 2-year-old and a bunch of friends' kids from church in the neighborhood. And, and we didn't realize at the time, but we ended up becoming a profit center for Mr. Ron and Miss Jane's growing swim school business. Well, he continued to grow his business at the same time we became dear family friends. In fact, Ron and his wife Jane found faith through the influence of my wife and me. Our daughter was the flower girl in their wedding, and we lived life together as dear friends for many, many years. And Ron turned his backyard swim lessons into today the largest global network of swim schools in the world, Aqua Tots. About 15 years ago, we had moved to Texas, and about 15 years ago, Ron came to us and said, hey, we are expanding the brand. We've turned it into a franchise. Would you help us move to Texas? You and I both love Texas, and ultimately, no, this is a great great place to raise a family and to do business. And, and, uh, so in 2008, we, uh, launched Aqua Tots as a part-time venture out of a bedroom in our house. And, and then I've just had the opportunities over the last 15 years to secure 5 locations in San Antonio, Austin, and South Fort Worth. There's about 30 Aqua Tots in all of Texas. My wife and I own 5 of them kind of in Central Texas. Paul, I wish I could tell your entrepreneurs listening in how strategic I was and I did an EOS model and I had vision, mission, value, and all of that figured out. It was really just response to one, a dear friend that I respected highly, the business model he built. And then two, those of us that are old enough to remember 2008, all my consulting and coaching and training business, I, I got a phone call from a technology company. And I lost $85,000 in one phone call. And those phone calls kept coming. That side of my business basically evaporated for about 18 months. And so my wife and I— my wife's also a consultant. We loved Ron and Jane, and we love the concept. And so we just kind of knuckled under and started figuring out how do we do AquaTots here in Texas. And, and, uh, and so it It wasn't overly strategic. I think the thing I would say to, to folks listening in is, um, whatever you find to do, do it with your whole heart, right? That's kind of a biblical motif. Put your hand to the plow and don't look back. And, and, and we worked hard. We, we, we grinded, right? We just— I, I, in my 50s, got recertified as a lifeguard in WSI. I'm I'm teaching instructors half my age how to go through swim lessons. And so I managed a staff of about 25 frontline swim instructors. My wife did sales and marketing and hotel and apartment complex pool partnerships. When we first launched, we worked with partner locations and we just got up every day and we grinded. In fact, my wife and I at this point fondly look back on our Sunday mornings before church, there was a local coffee shop that my wife and I would go to for a couple of hours. And it was the one time a week where we would just kind of look at each other and exhale. Then we'd go to church, we'd relax the balance of Sunday, and then we'd hit it again hard Monday morning. So I think the first lesson is grind. Just, just work hard. Just realize you're not going to be able to put your head up for, for 2 to 5 to 7 years. And then I think the second lesson— and I see you nodding on that— and I Sure, you've got some of those same experiences. I think the second lesson is it's going to be harder and longer and more frustrating than you can ever imagine, and the payoff at the end is going to be bigger and better than you ever thought. So, so if you've got the right idea in the right market and you're going about it the right way, um, you know, the overnight success is going to be 10 years in the making. But it will be worth it.

I love it. I love it. Now, you've also mentioned in there the finding of faith that your partner's found through yourself. If you would, let's talk about that for a minute. Again, we're, we're okay with all areas of faith and having these conversations because we all come from somewhere. And if that's not a belief that you hold, then that's fine too, right? For those that might be listening in, I'm— I usually don't look away from the camera for my visual audience, but what you said reminds me of the scripture that I keep above my desk here. 2 Corinthians 9:6-9, generosity and courage, says, remember this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to bless you abundantly so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.

Man, that is a good verse to have sitting up above your computer, I think.

Right there. So it's the sharing, right? And you and your wife got together and you talked about the grind. And let's kind of get into that. When we talk about grind, some people think of that as 9 to 5. But what is that actual grind look like for those first couple of years putting your head down and doing the thing?

Well, first of all, obviously you and I both being men of faith, the biblical model is not a 40-hour workweek. It's 6 days of labor and a day of rest. And I, and I'm just gonna say to anybody who's an aspiring entrepreneur, if you think you're gonna become a successful entrepreneur working 36 to 40 hours a week, you are not. That just the truth of the matter is you may get to a point in the success of your business where you have the flexibility and freedom to say, hey, I don't need to go into the office today, or I'm going to work really hard these 2 weeks and then my wife and I are going to go to the coast for a long weekend. But those first few years, it's 70-hour weeks. It's, it's just dawn to dusk grinding. Are, are there those opportunistic things where, gosh, it just kind of happened? I'm sure there are, Paul. Unfortunately, you read about them in the news and social media.. But for the vast majority of us, if we're gonna launch something new, it's a long, hard grind where you just put your head down and you push forward. And, and I, I know, you know the story of that. I know the story of that. If you're in, if you're in insurance and financial advising, it's all about building your book of business. If you're in real estate, it's about finding the right properties and nurturing them and getting the right tenants in. For me, it's finding instructors and managers and and promoting ourselves well enough that we have thousands of kids every week in the summer and hundreds and hundreds of kids every week in the winter going through our year-round swim curriculum. Uh, it's, it's a lot of work to be a successful entrepreneur for the vast majority of us. TikTok and Instagram and YouTube Shorts make it look like overnight successes. That's, that's gives a false sense of reality. You asked about my faith journey as well. I don't come from a church home, but But Jesus found me as I was a young child, and my faith became very important to me. And Paul, I'm glad you asked, because this is part of my leadership journey. I am— I'm reading the biographies of the greatest servant leader who ever lived. At the same time, as a young man, I'm moving into the workplace, and it wasn't even career yet. These were like construction laborer jobs I had working my way through high school and college. And I just had a couple of bad bosses. I had a boss who had an anger management issue, and if he had a hand tool in his hand when his anger tipped, you better be out of the way. And so I'm reading about what servant leadership, sacrificial servant leadership, looks like, and then I'm going to work for a boss who I just felt like I had to walk on eggshells. I thought, this, this isn't the way it's supposed to be. And that Really, when I think about it, that equation, that disconnect that started, gosh, in my teen years awakened in me this passion around nobody should work for a bad boss. And really, it's what devolved into the screen that I have behind me. We turn managers into leaders. Neely Leadership Group is passionate about people understanding there's a difference between management and leadership. And the books I've written, the doctoral studies I've done, they've all been what makes a good What makes a good leader a good leader? So that's, that's the faith journey story. And I don't spend a lot of time in churches or ministry organizations. My doctorate is from a seminary, but, but I'm in the marketplace challenging, challenging management teams to realize you got to lead well if you're going to get the team where they need to be.

Let's talk about that. So you being in the field with those managers that maybe have some challenges or some areas of opportunity, as we like to call them, having trained executives across many, many industries, What's one of the most common leadership mistakes that you see most often?

I think there's probably a couple. One is the leader who's promoted into a position and thinks it's about me. I'm better than the other people around me. That's why I got promoted. I'm the smartest person in the room. Everybody better look to me for every answer. Yeah. And I see you nodding. You and I both know that is an exhausting way toward high employee turnover.

Mm-hmm.

The people who get it realize they're at the bottom of the pyramid rather than the top of the pyramid, right? If, if I've been promoted into a position of leadership, my whole job now is to make other people look good. And the fun thing is that at the end of the day, I make them look good. I end up having the benefit. But I've worked a lot with sales teams over the years. And oftentimes one of the challenges of a top performing salesperson who's promoted to become a sales manager, is they're used to competing, they're used to winning, they're used to getting up on the stage and, and being the salesperson of the year. And now for them to really be a great leader, they got to push their people forward, they got to help their people succeed. So I would say that, that's a big one. And gosh, your, your perceptive question, Paul, kind of gets me up on my soapbox. In the 2020s, we have, we have mistakenly believed being a celebrity influencer is the same as being a leader, and they're diametrically opposed. Just because you've got 10,000 followers on TikTok doesn't mean you have any right to influence anybody. It's about them. It's not about you for true leadership. So yeah, I see you laughing and nodding. You've got some of the same perspective, right? I'll get off my soapbox because it's your soapbox as well. I can tell.

This is good. This is good. Like the responses that you have just spark the most interesting relations to the world. Right. And you just mentioned online influence and how people that— yes, you've got 1,000 or 10,000 or 1 million followers, but sometimes you don't actually have the right to truly lead people or influence them. You're just out there to, you know, make a dollar or whatever it is that you do in that industry. So in that world that is dominated by online influence, for the real leaders, for the true leaders, How can that person stay grounded and real amidst all of the mess out there?

Yeah, I mean, that's the million-dollar question, is that if you and I can slice and dice that and make it palatable for people, we will have developing emerging leadership teams that want to hear from us for a long time. I've been thinking about it for decades at this point. And Paul, I'm pretty convinced. You and I talked before you turned the camera on. I call it the 4 Leadership Necessities. I think there's 4 simple things, not easy to execute, but it's a simple acronym. If, if managers and, and people that are in positions of influence work on these 4 things, I think they can begin to assure themselves, I haven't arrived, but I'm in the journey. The, the first one is conviction. Do you see the bigger picture? Are you passionate about leading your team? Do you, do you think bigger? Do you think broader? Do you think further? Are you thinking about competition? And the international play and 18 months out instead of just how am I going to close this project this month, that, that conviction piece, the bigger, the bigger picture. The second one is, is competence. And, and the whole point of an effective manager who's becoming a leader is they're making their teams more effective and able to execute on their work. It's no longer personal competence. It's what skills, what behaviors, what training, what nurturing, what coaching do I need to do to bring the best out of my people. Competence. The third of the four leadership necessities is one that your Bible verse reflects on and that I see in your eyes, and that's that whole character piece. You'll, you'll never be a better leader than you are a person. Fair-minded, honest, other-oriented, self-sacrificial— these character traits that you and I both believe come from the best servant leader modeling that we've ever seen 2,000 years ago. But Whether you're a person of faith or not, we all know the boss needs to be fair-minded. The boss can't have favorites. The boss needs to put other people first. Uh, Simon Sinek wrote the book Leaders Eat Last from the military model of the generals eat after the privates because the privates are the ones that are doing all the hard work on a day-to-day basis. So, so those character traits that, that define good leadership. And then the last of the 4 leadership necessities, Paul H. Flowers Jr., I, I struggled with a long time to get language around what I was seeing. But when I was working with good leaders like you, I would see them demonstrate two— they would balance two tensions. And finally, I realized, here's what they're doing. They're in covenant with their people. Now, covenant's an interesting word, kind of an old-fashioned word, although Guy Ritchie brought it back into our common language with a Typical Guy Ritchie, a very good movie, pretty brutal movie, Guy Ritchie movie, 4 or 5 years ago. But, but here's what covenant means in the state of Texas where I live. A marriage covenant, love and affection forever and ever, the romantic relationship side. And there's also a formal document that's signed by an officiant and recorded with the county clerk. There's both a formal and a personal side of relationships and when I realize the best leaders I'm looking at, the Paul Flowers of the world who are leading the way they should, man, they're driven by the company goals. They've got projects that they're keeping, they're holding people accountable to deadlines, production numbers, sales numbers with a lot of the sales teams I've worked with. Oh, and then you find out Paul had an employee whose parents needed to go into a memory care clinic and that employee needed another 3 weeks off. To take care of house and relocation things. And it went beyond the HR policy. It was outside their 40 hours of PTO. But Paul made it happen because it was the right thing to do for that employee. And the best leaders I work with, they balance the tension of we still have to hit our numbers and I've got to be human with the people. And once I realized, yeah, that's covenant. That's what it is. It's both formal and personal. That, that was the final piece. So So conviction, competence, character, and covenant. A simple model, the 4 Leadership Necessities, but it's a lifetime of execution. Simple to understand, always a challenge to execute on.

Well, I mean, we talk about challenges. For some people, waking up is a challenge. And these 4 C's, I had to jot those down because I think that conviction, competence, character, and covenant, right? The 4 C's absolutely are needed in the space of leadership, right? They're absolutely needed in business, but also family, right? Relationships. So it's not just a business thing. And that's why I love the way that you're bringing this all together, is that these are things that are human aspects. That's right. Yeah, yeah, human thing. So I would, I would absolutely call these solid pillars of advice when it comes to leadership. Now, having grown into these pillars yourself, and now teach and share with them, there's again, oftentimes where that mentor or that guide might have given us something, and we ignored it. So let's, let's listen and see if Dr. Andy has those moments, right? What's the best leadership advice that may have been given to you, but you've ignored it, and how did it work out?

Ouch. Well, if you've ignored it, it didn't work out right. And I do think one of the things that unfortunately haunts me, Paul, we've been running our small businesses for 15 years, and from the outside in, we've grown from partner locations to our own very first location to 2 locations to 5 locations in 3 territories. From the outside looking in, it's like, wow, that's— there's been 15 years of layer after layer after layer of pretty cool stuff. Paul, I continue to make some of the same mistakes year in and year out. In fact, I wrote a blog a few months ago that was kind of a self-reflective blog that was, do you have 12 years of experience or do you have the same year of experience repeated 12 times? Because sometimes I feel like, Andy, you know better. And yet you caught back in that same trap. And, and so, you know, part of it is, as followers of Christ, you and I understand we're, we're forgiven people. We, we live in this life of where we're challenged to be the best we can, and there's always grace applied. We have to be gracious with ourselves. And to the person you said who has a hard time getting up in the morning, we also just have to recognize, suck it up, Andy, get out of bed and start grinding. And there's that balance of Yeah, you made that mistake again, and let's learn the lesson and not make it over. One of my, one of my big problems is at times, rather than delegating, I kind of abdicate. And what I mean, the difference between the two is delegation is good. It's where I give somebody responsibility. I've trained them, I've coached them, I've nurtured them, and now I, I've given them everything they need to succeed. That's good delegation. At times, Paul, I just turn things over to somebody and I expect them to do a good job. And I haven't given them what they needed. That's abdication rather than delegation. And, and I, and I think that's, that's something that, that I always have to be on the watch out for myself. Are you abdicating or are you truly delegating? So you learn, you learn lessons along the way, and then some you say, that was a harder lesson for me to learn than others.

So let's say, I'm glad you brought that up, learning lessons. Sometimes you get it right the first time, sometimes you don't. Sometimes you'll end up struggling through it until you finally get it, and sometimes you don't. Yeah, it reminds me of the definition of insanity, the doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Uh, some might call that a, a mental concern, right, if you're consistently making essentially the same mistake. Now, you again had asked earlier about one of the most common things leadership the, that you've seen the mistakes, you know, throughout your journeys and throughout your trainings and teachings. I'm curious, when you're in the C-suite, when you're speaking with these executives, what's something that may have surprised you about the mental state or the mental wellness within the individuals you've come to learn and ultimately train and coach?

Yeah. Well, I think it's great that you asked that question, because the whole approach of your Poh Peri series of podcasts is recognizing everything is blended together. And, and I think part of, part of what was surprising to me at first is when, when I'm retained by a firm to coach one of their senior executives, I thought going in it was about executive development. I remember working with a gentleman a number of years ago where the CEO said, hey, we've identified our COO as the guy that we want to take my job in 5 years. Andy, can you come alongside him and groom him into a CEO? And, and Paul, our discussions for most of the months I worked with him were about family dynamics and what he really wanted in his personal life as reflected. And that was the first of a number of coaching engagements I've had where, where for all of us, we are looking toward that integrated life. I don't come in as a business coach and coach business people on business things. I come in as a business coach, and then we end up talking about the potpourri of their lives and how their career is part of that, but so is their family, so is their upbringing, so is where they live and where they aspire to live. And, and so I think that's been one of the things that's been interesting to me is people, they don't, they don't box things up anymore. I don't know if they did in the 1950s, the movies that you and I watch, but people want integration. And so when you and I do a good job, it helps husbands be better husbands, it helps wives be better wives, it helps parents be better parents. And, and, um, and, and that's been a, a pleasant, heartwarming surprise to me. Oh, by the way, the end of the story of the COO— 18 months later, he and the CEO and I had the very hard conversation about this guy is not targeted toward becoming your CEO. In some respects, I failed my coaching engagement, but I saved everybody some real pain because you shouldn't make him your CEO. He doesn't want it. You wouldn't want him to be in that position. So it's different than we think sometimes.

Well, I mean, that's kind of a shocking end to the story, so to speak, but it's the reality of it is sometimes a person may not be ready, we'll just say, not that they're not able, but at that stage in their life, you may not be ready. And even if you're what we would consider one of the greatest teachers and learning from obviously one of the greatest servant leaders, sometimes that person is just not ready. It's the old adage, you can lead a horse to water, right? You can't make them drink.

Well, and it's— in this case, it's similar to your undergrad versus your master's degree and where you really plugged into yourself. As I got to know this COO, he, he had a undergrad degree in art. He was an artist by heart. What he really wanted to do was create beautiful things. He did not want to sit in hard meetings with board members and employees and compensation packages. And so this was him just realizing who I was and who I wasn't. And so, you know, part of if you and I as good executive coaches do a good job, Part of what we do is we hold up the mirror to the people that we're working with so that they can see who they truly are more, more and more clearly.

That's it. Now, I like the way the phrase, the phrase that you use, holding up that mirror to them. So obviously, you're taking a look at them, but you're also just as importantly, if not more importantly, causing them to take a look at themselves. And they may or may not like what they see. Now, I want to step off of them for a second and bring it back to you. Dr. Randy, because you have to work with them, right? You have an evaluation process. I'm certain that when you're working with this person, they may have to meet certain criteria, uh, something to that effect. And that basically says that you've got the ability to discern who is for you and for your business and who may not be the best person, much like that COO was not the best person to be elevated into that CEO position. Sometimes there are companies that may not align with you. So tell me again, from a professional standpoint, have you ever had to walk away from some opportunities because it didn't align with you?

Yeah. Yeah. And in fact, I think one of the hardest lessons all of us as leaders and emerging leaders need to learn is hard conversations are not bad conversations. They're just hard conversations. In fact, I, I will, I will even maintain if, if somebody looking in from the outside wants to determine, is that person a leader or just a manager? If that person leans into, doesn't avoid, but is not afraid of hard conversations, they're on their way to becoming a leader. Paul, I will tell you, I feel like at times my whole day is a series of hard conversations. That's all it is. Because managers and frontline workers can take care of the easy conversations. It's the landlord that says, no, that dripping roof isn't our responsibility. You take care of it. That's when I get called in, right? Because it's like, wait a minute, we're spending $16,000 a month on rent. You've promised us this space that's an intact space. What we do inside is ours. That roof is your responsibility.

Absolutely.

Those are the hard conversations. The, the, the, the manager that is underperforming and is, and is holding their people back, leaders need to have the hard conversations with them. And, and that, I think that's, that's one of the defining characteristics. It's been interesting, Paul, because I have a whole series of 2-hour webinars on how to coach, different things. The one that's probably been requested more than anything else is, is teach my managers how to have hard conversations, because that's, that's part of the job of a leader, is, is having that tough no. We, we're not giving you a 5% raise because you, you didn't overperform. Our standard raise is 3%. The only people that get 5% are the people that overperformed, and you didn't. And the tears and wailing and gnashing of teeth I've been in those meetings where managers walked out underneath me, very angry at me, and I had to balance that covenant that you and I talked about 10 minutes ago. What's in the best interest of the organization and what's in the best interest of that person? Every leader needs to do that.

Well, it's, it's preparation, if nothing else, meaning you personally, how you have to be in order to go in and have that hard conversation, because you're absolutely right. Someone has essentially an expectation for a goal that they didn't meet, so they don't have the merit to request or receive the thing that they ultimately want. And having to essentially turn that mirror around again and show them, hey, this is you. Yeah, it can be tough. Now, you mentioned that you do several webinars also, and let's talk about some of these in terms of the preparation that you have. And I know you didn't mean the webinar as a keynote, but I just it flashed that you also do keynote speak— speeches. And I noticed that with entrepreneurs, whether they're doing it currently, or they endeavor to, they're going to be out there in front of people. So if you'd share with us some of the preparation that you go through before, it's whether you're delivering a major keynote, or even just a boardroom conversation, because again, preparation is key. So How do you prepare?

Well, another, boy, insightful question, Paul. Let's think about the baseball analogy for just a minute 'cause we're into late spring baseball now. I grew up in the Phoenix area. You and I chuckled because Gary, Indiana, I'm from Dalton, Illinois, so we're kind of in that suburban area. My folks moved to Phoenix when I was in high school and the spring training of a number of baseball teams takes place in the Valley of the Sun. And that spring training is a time of preparation. Where they're kind of getting the kinks out and they're working on their batting and their pitching and their stances and the defense. And then the season begins and this team goes to one of its competitors for a 3-game stand and they're doing specific training or specific preparation for that team. So there's really 2 types of preparation. One I call preseason preparation. Paul, you've got a little bit of gray in your beard. You've been doing this for a number of years. In some respects, you've just got some preseason preparation behind you. If somebody called me right now and said, Andy, we just had a cancellation at a hotel downtown in Austin, can you be here at 1:00 this afternoon to do a keynote speech for our managers? I could say yes, because I've been doing preseason preparation for many years now about talking with managers about how to become good leaders. But the best engagement is when I'm given enough time to also go on to the internet and do some research about their company and their industry and their competitors and think about, well, Well, they gave me 45 minutes. What stories are the best stories for a fuel and lubricant company versus the best stories for stories in the high-tech space? And so taking that preparation serious, both preseason preparation of, hey, I just want to have a life of experience, and game day preparation for that specific coaching or training or, or client engagement. We need to be aware of both. And the problem with the 22-year-old entrepreneur who simply doesn't want to work for anybody else, and so he's going to become an entrepreneur. She's going to have her own business. She doesn't have any of that, that spring ball, that, that preseason training. And so she or he's got to do a lot more work of game day preparation where you and I— I don't want to say we can wing it at times, but, but you've been there and you've done that. And so therefore your preseason preparation has allowed you to perform.

I like that. And I appreciate the kind words. Thank you so much. And yes, I'm definitely salt and peppered. And all the way through this beard. Now, again, you speak with such clarity, you speak with such diction, you also again, get in front of not just the boardrooms, but also the large rooms and gatherings and do these keynote speeches. Now, again, we like to hear about the successes because clearly those are the ones that bring you to the prominence that you are today. But has it always been a natural thing for you to speak like this? And like, have you bombed ever at all?

Yeah, I mean, I will tell you, from a very early age, I had people telling me, kind of, you have a way with words. You and I both have a faith background. I was part of a youth group, and I did like the, the youth Sunday, and I had little ladies in the church telling me, you have the call, because I I'm a good communicator. So there was some of that that's just, I would say, God-given talent. I, I, I can't dunk a basketball, but I know how to communicate. But Paul, on the one hand, I've had some horrible failures. I did a keynote speech for a pipe and fixture company a number of years ago where, um, they asked me to, to speak about character, ethics in leadership, And by the time they turned the stage over to me, everybody in the room— not everybody, the vast majority of the people in the room had had too much to drink. And there was whistling and hoots. Many of the people moved to the back of the room and were standing there with a bottle of beer. I failed horribly. Partly they did, but partly I wasn't agile enough. I wasn't flexible enough. I didn't change things to the audience that was in front of me. But I will also tell you at other times, you know, I've worked very hard at my craft, right? I use the stage well. I use my gestures on purpose, pausing and silence. I've hired speaking coaches to hear me because I, if, if I'm hired to deliver a speech, I, that's a stewardship that that company is going to be paying me to do. They deserve my very best. So, so I, I work hard at it. I, I did a training workshop yesterday. I spent as much time preparing for the training workshop as the training workshop because it was content that I hadn't done in a while. I wasn't quite as agile and smooth with it. They didn't know that I had spent well over 8 hours the day before and the night before and early the morning of, but I knew, man, that's, that's what it took for me to be able to deliver to them so that I would feel good about the value I gave them and the fee that they're going to pay me.

It's the, again, old adage of sharpening the axe.

Yeah, exactly.

Before you go to chop the tree. It's referred to as the, again, preseason work, right? Or in the NBA, I just watched something on social media where they talked about Steph Curry and his ability to shoot. Like, they were down by 20-some-odd points, 21 points, and The day before in practice, he made 77 3-pointers in a row. Yeah, 77 3-pointers in a row. So then they come back from a 20-point deficit and end up winning the game. And they'd even gotten a picture of him shooting the ball with his eyes closed. Like, who comes to a game and shoots with their eyes closed? But that just talks about the preparation that's needed. And the things that are done in the dark, right, back then, that ultimately come out, out there, right, in the future. And it's amazingly important. So I'm curious, you've again, been in the field for a while, and made some mistakes, had a lot of successes. Let's think back to maybe when Dr. Andy wasn't Dr. Andy yet, and he was 20, 25-year-old Andy, we referenced the 20-some-odd-year-old generations at this point. So let's, let's talk about at At 25, what would a 25-year-old Andy say to you today as far as, you know, who you are, how you are? You know, what would that younger you say about the man that you are today?

Yeah, I think probably do the hard work to be prepared. The very questions you asked about, a 25-year-old needs to work harder to be prepared because they don't have 20 years of preseason background. You know, I, I get frustrated. I'm on LinkedIn a lot like you are, and I feel like every executive coach that is really promoting themselves on LinkedIn, um, 80% of them look like they're in their 20s. And, and I just have the question, how can you be an executive coach when you're in your 20s? You just don't have enough experience yet to really be able to bring wisdom to the table. So Partly I want to say to that 20-year-old Andy, sit down, shut up, and take notes because it's, it's gonna, it's gonna be a while. And then let, let life happen. Realize hard things are going to happen and they are going to season you for your future. I think the other thing I'd say to a 25-year-old Andy is, and give yourself some grace because you're You're grinding so hard and you're so afraid of disappointing God and your wife and yourself. And, and if you really do believe that God is a God of grace, give yourself some grace, do the best you can, and then leave the outcome to him. That— those are— I wish, I wish I'd believed that a little bit more when I was in my 20s and was not so full of myself that I was the one that needed to do everything exactly right.

Well, listen, as much as we want to get it right, Dr. Andy, that's not what this lifetime is for. And it's a consistent chipping away of the stone in order to create that perfect masterpiece. And I don't think we've got enough years to see it. So as long as we commit to the chipping, right, to that process, I think that will be okay. Yeah, and I think we'll be okay. And like you said, giving ourselves grace is an absolute must at this point. So we're nearing the top of the hour here and do want to respect your time. And as we land the plane, I've got a question that since you've actually heard a couple episodes, you— I think you know where this is going. So Dr. Andy, if you would share with us again, we'd like to connect with you, get a little bit closer. Tell us, what's your middle name?

Andrew William Neely. So, um, and when I was in college, my undergraduate is in broadcast journalism, and I was at such a rinky-dink school. When I was a DJ, I was Andy Neely, and my middle name was William. So when I was the news anchor, I was Bill Andrews, and I would pop that different hat on using the same name.

I love it. I love it. Is there a story behind the middle name? Is it passed down, or is it just a unique one to you?

Now, I'm named after my grandfather. So he was Andrew William Neely I, and I'm Andrew William Neely II.

Beautiful, beautiful. I love legacy. And you know what? Speaking of that, let's leave something behind for the audience. So if you would, Dr. Randy, please, the next minute, your words of wisdom, best advice for that everyday entrepreneur that, again, may not be where you are today,, but maybe endeavoring to be where you are tomorrow?

Well, entrepreneur, I think I would say balance the tension of giving yourself grace and working hard at becoming better every day. And that tension never goes away. This whole leadership model that Paul and I have talking about, it's a series of commas. It's a never a period. You don't ever arrive. Continue to grind and give yourself grace.

Excellent. Dr. Andy— excuse me, Dr. Andrew, AKA Dr. Andy William Neely, thank you so much for being a guest here on the Pope Replays podcast show. This segment, again, The Everyday Entrepreneur, is made for individuals just like you who are out here to do the thing and also give back so that those that want to know that there's a prime example that with faith and in this instance, the 4 C's. And I'm going to refer to them here, I jotted them down: conviction, competence, character, and covenant, that you can absolutely cause and create anything that you put your mind to. This has been another phenomenal conversation. Again, Dr. Andy, thank you so much. And to our listeners, thank you for your time as well. See you on the next episode. Bye for now.