How American Ninja Warrior Lisa Hair Defied Ankylosing Spondylitis with TPE

Imagine it takes you 90 minutes to get from your bed to your bathroom. That's exactly what Lisa Hare's reality was. She's my guest today. She's a mom, a medical provider, and an American Ninja Warrior multiple times over. They actually call her the AS Ninja because she competes with a condition that's literally fusing her spine. She's tried everything for a decade, well over a decade, to, to fix her symptoms and nothing has worked. And then she found one thing that did. So today on this episode, she's going to break it all down and how she's not walking with a limp anymore and she's able to compete at the highest level and a whole bunch of awesome other tips and things that she's talked about as well, especially for those who maybe yourself or someone you know that face a chronic condition and symptoms that feel completely debilitating. This is the only medical intervention that Lisa says has changed her life. So she's gonna break it all down. She's awesome. Here's her story. Lisa, it is awesome to chat with you today and thanks for taking the time. I know it's, it's busy, busy and you're probably doing a lot right now since—

Yeah, I'm excited to be here.

Yeah, for sure. Well, you, you have a really cool story and I was catching up a little bit on YouTube and all that stuff. So at the time of this recording, your episode on American Ninja Warrior have, has released. Um, obviously, uh, we're recording this ahead of the time, so can't say anything, or at least I don't know what he's gonna say, but go check her out. Perfect. And you've been on what, how many times now?

This is my 4th season. Awesome. Uh, had some like really great highs and some really low lows, but I mean, that comes with the territory, right? Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

And your husband, I think, was on at least one. You did like a couple.

He was on two, I think. And then we were on the couples edition also. Oh, my oldest daughter, her gender reveal was on the first season.

I saw that.

That he was on. Yeah.

That's cool.

Couldn't be on that. I was, I was a little bit too pregnant to compete, so I've been invited 6 times.

Dang. All right. Is that common? Like that many repeats? I don't watch enough.

Yeah, they, they, um, there are a lot of like veterans that they keep around.

Cool.

They like me because of my story.

Well, that's why, yeah, I think it's super relevant here because, you know, we're talking a little bit and I did some research and yeah, the fact, oh, I'd love to have you talk about your own story of course, and kind of tee it up because you've had therapeutic plasma exchange a few sessions and Um, we'll just, I, I'm very curious about the journey, kind of before, during, after, how it's affected you.

Yeah. It's been a long journey.

Yeah. I guess where, where do you feel like you probably told the story, so where would you wanna start with it?

Um, so when I was little, I just always got sick a lot. Other people would get sick and get better in a couple days and I would get sick and like lose 10 pounds and I've only ever been like 100 pounds. So it was just every time I got sick, it would wipe me out. And then when I was 17, I developed this pain that kept me from being able to roll over in bed.

I couldn't walk.

I was I was in high school still and like the bell would ring and I couldn't get to the next class before the next bell ring. Mm-hmm. Like just because it hurts so much. And, um, we spent about 9 years just trying to figure out what it was. And I decided there must be something just mentally wrong with me. Like this is in my head. Um, they see a lot of arthritis on the scans, but like there's no diagnosis. There's literally something wrong with my head. That's it. And so, um, Eventually I got myself through PA school and, um, I went to a provider and asked them to order certain tests, and then the tests came back positive, so they sent me to rheumatology. And then there I was diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis. But at that point, I had been struggling through the pain, or fighting through the pain, with— without medications for so long that I really didn't wanna go on biologics. Um, I was open to some of the things that they had to offer, but I had already had multiple stomach ulcers from anti-inflammatories. And then the treatment option that they lined up for me, I got another stomach ulcer and I was like, you know what? It didn't even help with the pain. It didn't decrease the severity or the duration. This is not my answer. I don't wanna take medicine to decrease the symptoms. I want to decrease the progression. I want to come in and halt the disease, and I wanna actually change my life, not just medicate my life.

Mm-hmm.

And so almost the whole journey I've been searching for natural ways to improve my health and my body. And I already am pretty crazy about not allowing toxins into my body. You can only do so much, but I try to— Yeah, we're all—

it's tough.

Yeah. So, and then the more I learn, the more I'm like, oh, oh gosh, there's still so much more I need to be doing. But yeah, I came across MD Lifespan and I was kind of like, I don't know. I don't know if I believe it. Like, is it, could it really be that helpful? And then I did my own research and I was like, this makes sense to me. It's, you know, it's not free, but I think this is worth it. And then I scheduled my consult.

That's cool. How did you come across it originally? MD Lifespan or just therapeutic plasma exchange?

So my uncle, he's like the smartest person I've ever met. He's, he's a genius. And, um, he started noticing that he wasn't mentally as sharp and as clear. None of us noticed it because he was still smarter than everybody else. But, um, he went and did a series of tests, found his like genetic markers for Alzheimer's, and then was diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's. And he has dedicated like 40 to 80 hours per week of active lifestyle changes and treatments. Um, and he travels, he flies, like everything he can do to naturally reverse this. And this is what he swore by. He's like, this is gonna make the biggest difference. And then, you know, he, he's so smart. He goes, he goes into all the details about everything also. And, um, again, I was like skeptical until I did my own research, but I don't know. He's, he's pretty smart. If he says something, it's usually true.

That's wild. I mean, that's, uh, I mean, his case alone, like the fact that he's dedicated so much time and spotted it before anybody else too, like, yeah, he's pretty aware, but his, 'cause you do the brain testing before, his brain testing afterwards was so much better.

He, he like, I feel like he should be on here 'cause he's telling the world about it. His girlfriend was diagnosed with all these autoimmune diseases that didn't start until like her 40s or 50s. And now she swears by therapeutic plasma exchange and she feels the best that she's felt in 10 years.

Dang.

Yeah, so we're just a family of happy TPEers.

And that's cool. Well, I mean, like you, you mentioned autoimmune, like, yeah, it's all that stuff. It's, I mean, it's what I'm hearing cuz I get to interview, I'm not the doctor, but I have had TPE and I've learned through this too. But like the toxins are just such the root of all the inflammation that happens. And then, you know, genetically that could trigger other things to happen that might not be the same for someone else, but it's— oh yeah, getting the test.

So, and, and I'm a medical provider too, I'm a PA, and I treat a lot of chronic conditions. And, um, everyone always asks me like, is this from what I eat? Is this from this? Is this from this? I'm like, it's not from one thing that you eat, it's not from one thing that you were exposed to, it's from a lifelong of toxin accumulation and inflammation on the inside is going to cause inflammation on the outside. I treat skin, so I'd say it's just however your body is gonna express that inflammation. For someone it might be psoriasis, for someone else it might be arthritis, but we, our bodies are more like predispositioned towards certain expressions of that inflammation. And for me it was ankylosing spondylitis. But I do believe that everyone can get whatever expression of inflammation, whatever condition they've been diagnosed with. To be incredibly improved by decreasing the toxins. You might still have that diagnosis stamped on you, but if you decrease the inflammation in your body, you're not gonna be expressing that condition as much.

That's right. You nailed it. Yeah, you should know some things, right? Yeah, definitely. I'm happy that you have that background. So I was, I was just chatting with a cardiologist. He's on the board of MD Lifespan, Chris Davis, just last week. And yeah, he, he gives every one of his patients, anyone in there, a toxin test and a genetics test. There's one more too, but those are the two, like just to like exactly what you're saying. Just so you know the spectrum, like, you know, yourself, like who you are DNA-wise, but also what's in you floating around so you can do something about it.

Yeah. I love that.

Well, what I, I guess, did you, of course you probably started with the toxin test, right? With MD Lifespan.

So, yeah, I started with the toxin test and, um, when Dr. Savage was reviewing it with me, he was like, wow. It's really not as bad as a lot of others that I've seen. And it's because like the last, I don't know, 20 years I've been so dedicated to this, but especially the last, I'd say 3 or 4 years, I've really increased my education in toxins and I've been avoiding it so much. But even that said, the mold levels were still there. Your body can't get rid of some things. Like my microplastics were great because I— we don't have plastic in our house. But mold, and, and I even tested positive for some black mold too. So your, you do, your body. Oh no.

Yeah.

I was scared. That was awakening. I was like, yep, let's, let's do this.

Yeah, I know. Oh, well what did you do about that? Because I had a lot of mold in me as well. We can relate on that. Did you find, I guess, did, were you even aware of mold of like before the, the toxin test?

I was suspicious. Mm-hmm. Because I live in Florida, it's just a moldy state. Yeah. We'll call it. And, um, I'm, I'm from South Carolina, but more so my uncle had super high mold levels on his test and we, we believe that it's from my grandfather's house that we both spent a lot of time at. Mm-hmm. Um, so I was suspicious.

You never know. I'm in San Diego and I had a ton of mold. I'm like, where the heck? Like, I don't get it. So yeah, mold's nothing to mess with, but we've done episodes on that. If, if anyone watching, listening, go, go check those out. The dust test.

Yeah.

Yeah. The dust test specifically is a really good mold test that I just ordered because Dr. Savage looked at mine and he's like, still got some black mold in you after your TPE. I was like, shoot. Okay. Figure out your environment kind of thing. Yeah.

It's everywhere.

It is, it is. So, but that's a divergence. But after the, the whole toxin things, like, I guess, how, how did you feel? Obviously you were already probably sold on doing the TPE, but now kind of had a roadmap, right? Like, you know exactly what was in you. So, yeah.

So I guess symptom-wise, and, and, you know, no one can guarantee me that I was gonna have less inflammation, right? But it just made sense that I'd have less inflammation. So Ankylosing spondylitis is a condition where you'll have like seasons that are a little bit better and then seasons that are just awful. And so I said, I'm not gonna make a declaration of it worked or it didn't work for a full calendar year after I'm done. However, I do have a 5-year journal. So I track like how I'm feeling like every day. And this time of year is a high flare season for me historically. And a year and a week ago, I couldn't even crawl. So I had to lay flat on my belly and do like lat pulls just to move. It took me an hour and a half to get from my bed to my bathroom in the middle of the night. I was nursing a baby. And this, like that same week of this year, I felt like a little bit of pain and I was like, oh no. And it was enough to make me limp, but that was it. And there was a solid 10 years of my life that like that amount of pain was the best pain that I ever felt. With like the least amount. Like there was never a time that I didn't limp. So I'm like, and sleep is like the most important thing that you can do, but it's just sometimes it's impossible when you have 2 children. And so I've had a season of not enough sleep, but I haven't had flares as bad as what they historically are. Like I haven't pulled out my walker or anything. So I'm like, I said I was gonna wait a year until I said that it works, but I think it's really working. It'd be hard for me to deny that.

How long has it been since the, your last treatment?

Let's see, my first session was the beginning of September.

Okay.

And my last one was on Veterans Day.

Got it.

Okay.

So it's recent, but you have a little time there though to have your body acclimate to, I guess, the new you, right? Less of the bacon you.

And I'm like, I'm in things for the long run, but I'm also always like loving a little instant gratification. So like after the first one, I'm like, I don't feel any different. I don't feel any different. And then I had my appointment with Dr. Savage MD, and she's like, nor should you. Let me explain this to you.

Yep, yep, yep. Well, I guess, yeah. What was your— so like kind of prior to, do you have any other reservations? I mean, it sounds like you did a lot of research and you saw your data. Like, were there other, I guess, concerns going into the actual procedure itself?

One generalized concern was I had been promised so many things by so many people. This will work for you. I've treated people with AS before, and I'm always like, I don't think that you have. But, um, just so many empty promises, which anyone who has a chronic pain condition is going to understand what I'm talking about. Empty promises, a lack of a diagnosis, and then thinking that you're actually mentally insane and that there's not something physically wrong with you, but it's all in your head. Because you're just like in this journey alone. Nobody's symptom profile is the exact same as yours. And so what I liked is that everyone at MD Lifespan was like, I can't promise you that this is going to work. Like, well, everybody else promised me and it didn't work, so at least we're moving in the right direction for all, right?

Yeah.

Like, I can promise it's going to decrease your toxins and you're going to be healthier. I can't promise your pain is going to be different. I was like, it sounds to me like that's the exact same promise, but yeah, your symptoms are down, of course your pain is going to be down. And they're just like, we can't say that. I'm like, I kind of like this. Like, I kind of like this here, the not like over-promising and under-delivering, the opposite of what I've been getting.

Right. Yeah.

But also like the other barrier to entry I would say would be the price of it.

Right.

Because someone who's had all these failed treatments, and nobody can promise me it's gonna make it better. I was like, I don't know if I wanna pay this.

Absolutely.

This is not like one day's worth of a check. Like this is, this is a big deal. Um, but then my parents actually talked me into it and they were like, for your health, this price is so worth it.

Mm-hmm.

No matter what your income is. This is your health. And I'm like, well, it's not guaranteed. They're like, this is the only thing that we've heard of that even stands a chance at helping, and this could be like a lifelong improvement for you. Because I've been doing the decreased toxin protocols for so long, but my body had gotten rid of everything it could and it just needed a little assistance. Yeah. So yeah, my, my parents talked wisdom into me as parents are so good at doing.

They are. I mean, and they're, they have got great perspective. You have good parents. So like great parents. Yeah. I mean, cuz it is, if you start mapping out, I mean, you've gone through, I'm sure just, yeah, tons of treatments and, oh, so much stuff.

Eastern medicine, medicine, Western medicine. I'm like, okay. I, I mean, there was a 5-year season where I was like, I'm not going to anyone. I like, no, don't try. If anyone tells me again that yoga is gonna help me, like I'm gonna snap them.

Like, like, trust me, I've tried to move my body around. Yeah. Probably interesting ways. Yeah.

It doesn't, it doesn't work. I can't touch my toes and I tried every day for 2 years and I still can't. So it's not, it's not that I need yoga.

Exactly. Yeah. No, I was looking at AS and it's like, yeah, literally, and I don't know how far, but inflammation and then it can lead to fusing of the spine. So I'm like, shoot, man. Yeah. Like that. But it seems again, it's an inflammatory issue, right?

Like everything. Yeah. But I had the worst prognosis of anyone because I was a young female. SI joints were the primary location. But through this, like before I was diagnosed, it also affected my eyes. That's a common thing that ankylosing spondylitis will attack your eyes. Um, and it's gotten my shoulders, my thoracic spine. I had, I do a lot of other things other than TPE, but, um, TPE has been the only, I would say like medical intervention. The rest is like infant development techniques and like ALDOAs and, um, like movement.

That's great.

I love them. Oh my goodness. Did them already today in the sauna.

I, oh, you're a sauna user too. I do that daily. Yeah.

Oh yeah. Gotta get rid of those toxins.

Absolutely. I love that you mentioned ALDOA cuz like no one knows. That's how I fixed a, yeah, I had a slipped disc. A long time ago from just a bad dead, uh, yeah, deadlifting CrossFit and just going too fast. And yeah, that thing, I have no issues. I've even told like people in like PT and all that because other stuff and they're like, what? I've never heard of anybody do. I'm like, LDOA, look it up.

Yeah. Life changing.

Absolutely. That's cool. Sorry, I didn't wanna, I just wanted to nerd out there cuz no one else—

No. Yeah, that's great. You can nerd out on LDOAs for sure.

Yeah.

Like there's only like medical, like inter— intervention really that I have ventured on that was successful. That's awesome. I've done a lot, but this is the only successful one.

Shoot. Yeah, I, I guess what other things have you felt post TPE? And then I wanna go back to like your actual experience during it too, but like symptom-wise, I mean, you're obviously, you're competing American Ninja Warrior, so you're able to move. What have you seen changes there in terms of performance?

There are way more days that I'm not limping. And I'm not thinking and focusing on the pain as much. Um, like, I remember looking out my— I mean, this is something that I did for 15 years— looking out of my window and watching people, like, walk their dog or just walk on the sidewalk and almost being, like, mad at that person, that innocent person who's doing something really great for themselves. I was almost mad at them that they weren't appreciative of the fact that they didn't have to calculate and think about that next step. And I would see them walking across like cracks in the sidewalk. I'm like, they didn't even think about if they step on that wrong, they're going down and they won't be able to get up for 2 hours. They're just out there walking and they're not even worried about it. And it's like, you know, these, I feel like I'm a nice person. I never wanna have a negative thought about somebody. I don't wanna be mad at them for, them doing something that they should be doing, and that's great. But I, yeah, I just, I found that heaviness a lot of just wanting the freedom of to stand up straight and walk.

Yeah.

Without thinking about if I step on that rock, is it gonna move my hip off? The freedom to just be able to pick up my child. And I am very, seldomly having to calculate my steps.

That's huge.

During the season.

Yeah. I mean, just, I'm thinking the emotional load that can take, take off yourself, you know, with just that alone.

It's so heavy when you're in those flares.

Yeah.

Because your children still need you. You still have to have a job. You still have to provide an income. Like the, the world doesn't stop moving just because you're hurting. And so you have to get through it.

Yeah. What other choice? I mean, yeah. And you figured out a solution, I guess for other people and you kind of already spoken to folks who might have other chronic type of conditions or whatever they're feeling, they feel kind of hopeless. Like, I guess what would you talk to them or say to them?

I would say I feel that hopelessness. And one thing, this isn't related to TPE necessarily, but one thing that I did, especially like going on my American Ninja Warrior journey with so much pain is I set a goal for that day. So some days the goal might be to stand up while I'm brushing my teeth. And when I do that and I brush my teeth, I celebrate it.

Nice.

Yes. I don't be like, I can't believe that that's what I'm excited about today. No, I'm like, oh my gosh, that was really hard for me and I did it. I'm so proud of myself. And then there's other days where I need to do like Razor's Edge on American Ninja Warrior. Mm-hmm. And I complete that and, uh, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I just did that. Like that, this is, this is the most amazing thing. But it channeling, um, your emotions to be like celebration of each little win and making sure that you set up realistic wins for you each day helps with that heaviness and the depression. And you start thinking like, I really can do this. And then the mindset is so powerful because once you've started accomplishing things, the rest of your day starts to be viewed through a lens of accomplishment. And then as far as TPE goes, it's absolutely necessary if you have— I mean, if you're a human, really. But if you have any sort of inflammation, who doesn't? But especially if you're just suffering with this chronic pain, No, you can't wake up tomorrow and have your entire life changed with how you do things. You can't be completely rid of toxins, but you can do little things that change it every single day. And really look into therapeutic plasma exchange because it is a huge jump start for cleansing your body of those toxins. You don't want to cleanse your body of the toxins and then go back to the exact same lifestyle you're doing before. This isn't like freedom to treat your body like trash, right? But we want to clean out the trash, and then we want to keep clean things going in. So it's not, it's not like you can just pay money and go and get your therapeutic plasma exchange done and then go and live life like normal. No, you really need to honor and respect your body. This is honoring and respecting your body by cleaning it, and then you continue in a new lifestyle afterwards.

And it never ends because, yes, it's like The world's not gonna make it any easier in terms of at least the toxin side of things, you know? So yeah, the avoidance therapy after TBE is huge.

Yeah. You're responsible for yourself. No one else is responsible for you.

We all, I mean, we all, we're all navigating our own challenges, you know? And, um, I, I was curious, like, has your, it seems like you were avoiding toxins really well beforehand, like cleaning up the space, plastics, you said. Um, yeah. Is there anything new after, like post-TPE that you might have learned during the whole process that now you're doing?

I feel like I learned something new every day. Mm-hmm. Um, my guilty pleasure is like a soy-free dark chocolate.

Yeah.

But the problem is the cacao bean holds so many heavy metals. Oh, like a way guiltier guilty pleasure than I thought. And then the salt, what's their source of salt? Because like what, 90? Is it 99% of sea salt has microplastics?

I think so.

So which salt are they using? It's, it's a white guilt too. Anyways. Yeah. You know, tons of plants in my house to clean out the air. Oh, you know what? Dr. Savage MD mentioned one thing. I've always been a take your shoes off before you come in.

Yep.

But he pushed that even more. Some, sometimes I like let my children get away without taking their shoes off, very rarely, but that you're picking up all those toxins and chemicals when you're out at the grocery store and everything that they use to clean their floors, you're bringing into your house. So he, he was saying just how much of an impact it can make to just take your shoes off before you walk into the house. So that would be something that is a new push. Yeah.

I'm not perfect at that with the kids here either, but certainly, yeah, with herbicides, pesticides, like if they're running on grass or you are. Yeah. Bringing all that into the house could be really bad. Yeah, for the system.

Truthfully, we're mostly barefoot, so.

Yeah, that's, I am right now. Yeah. There you go. Um, no, this is great, Lisa. I, I just care, is there anything else you feel like would be, um, I guess awesome to share? Anything we missed like during the whole TPE journey? Anything we can kind of wrap up on here?

My big thing, my platform that I wanna do is just encourage people. And, um, TPE has been encouraging to me because I felt like they're really wasn't anything else I could do. I felt like I had done everything in my power, um, and just kind of plateaued. And that's what the blood work showed as well. I had done everything in my power, but then this was something that took me so many steps above what I could do on my own. So I would just encourage you in this struggle, this is something that can help you with your struggle, and, and it— for me, it worked.

That's awesome. That's so cool. Well, I'm excited to see you on American Ninja Warrior again.

And yeah, you better tune in.

For sure. Sure. Is there— I mean, that's pretty exciting, but is there anything else that you're, you're looking forward to? Exciting on the, on the radar this year or somewhere soon?

Uh, you know, right before the season filmed, I broke this bone, this bone, and tore this tendon and had to— it still doesn't like straighten.

Um, I did something similar, so I have a very— I'm seeing a surgeon today. Okay. Go ahead. Sorry.

So I'm like, I'm hoping, I mean, it's been 6 months I competed with it like that, but I'm, I'm hoping that I get cleared because I haven't even been back to Ninja from that. And my whole family loves Ninja, even my 1-year-old, like she loves to hang. We have a Ninja room in our house. Cool. Uh, if ask me to go back, so I think This year, working on continuing the decrease of inflammation, um, and then fixing my finger so I can get back out there cuz I wanna do another season. Heck yeah.

So yeah, you're, you're on it. I love that the family's in there too, you know? Yeah.

My goal is to stay doing American Ninja Warrior until my oldest is old enough to compete.

Whoa.

How old's that? Like, well, it's 15, so I gotta do 9 or 10 seasons. Okay. I gotta, well, 10 more years cuz they only have to be 15 when it airs.

Got, oh, okay. I'm trying to, you've done the math at all. That's cool. Well, that's a heck of a goal.

So, and she'll be competing in, um, like the World Ninja League and, and some of the, like the, the US competitions once she's 5. So I don't have to wait long for that. That's next year.

Where do you, um, now I'm just gonna kind of curious, like what did she, Um, which did, like, cuz there's all these gymnastics and there's parkour, like my kids have done those and stuff. That's so cool. I know. Yeah. Like what would you recommend for other kids? Just people listening, like how can they get started with stuff like that?

There are a lot of Ninja Gyms around.

Okay.

Yeah. Gymnastics is great, but it is very fundamentally different than Ninja. Ninja's a lot more loose. I kind of prefer that for her back. Yeah. I'm so particular about people's backs with my life experience. Um, but we do a lot of stuff in the backyard and we have a little rock wall inside of the house. But I, I just think I'm not pushing her to go pro or anything, but I think it's so good for movement and proprioception and spatial awareness. Mm-hmm. And she loves it and I need something for her to get her energy out with.

So it benefits all of us right there with you.

Yeah.

Cool. Well, that's, uh, I think that's great. Yeah. Yeah. Gymnastics as opposed to like ninja or parkour, totally different, but similar. Like it's some interesting—

Yeah. Yeah.

Which is good.

Parkour, maybe that'll be my goal this year. Oh, I, I do have a goal this year. It's a one-armed pull-up. I almost had it when I was pregnant with my second one. God. And then now, now I'm back to training it. I was training it.

Wow. That's, that's impressive. I'm like, I'm sure your bar hangs, you probably hang for like 10 minutes if I were to guess.

The last one I did was 12 and a half.

Really? Yeah. In minutes. I was undershooting it.

Jesus. I have never like maxed out. I just like, there was a competition and the next, the next longest one was like 3 minutes and I just wanted to go like far enough above that nobody even tried. So that 12 and a half was good and then I popped down.

Wow. I'm like, yeah, 3 minutes. I'm like, I, I think I might've hit that like one time, but I'm like, shoot. Okay. I got a new bar now. Thanks. This is great, Lisa. I could probably keep asking all these different questions, but you know, you're, you're awesome. I'm really stoked that TP has been helping out so much on inflammation and all that stuff. But where can folks go find you on the interwebs out there? Where do you wanna direct 'em to?

Instagram's definitely where I post the most. My Instagram name is Lisa Nichols Hair and I'm known as the Ankylosing Spondylitis Ninja. So the AS Ninja. And really my whole platform is just encouraging people, not not just with AS, it's really just chronic pain, chronic conditions, um, and also just encouraging other moms. I, I get the struggles of both of those things.

Well, you're doing it all and you're, you're leading the way. So thank you so much, Lisa.

And yeah, thank you for having me.

Can't wait to go celebrate watching you too.

It's gonna be fun.

Oh, I'm so excited to watch it.

Yeah, cool.

Well, have a great one.

Thanks again. Thanks.