Uncovering Hidden Hormone Disruptors and Detox Strategies with Dr. Pam Smith | TPE Blueprint #13

Mold toxic. We've got the solution for you. TPE Therapeutic Plasma Exchange. Dr. Jill Carnahan recommends it. So do our patients. Every day you're exposed to toxins in your air, food and water. You're even ingesting a credit card's worth of plastic every week. MD Lifespan's plasma exchange protocol is scientifically proven to cleanse your body of these toxins. That means more energy, clearer thinking and better health. Just say no to toxins. Schedule your free 30 minute physician consult right now at mdlifespan.com call. Could the very things you rely on for your convenience, things like canned foods, skincare products, plastic water bottles, be the reason why your cortisol, estrogen and testosterone are out of sync? Join Dr. Pam Smith today on this episode as she maps out the hidden pat pathways of endocrine disrupting chemicals and reveals the cutting edge strategies to clear them from your system. Let's dive in.

Doctor Pam Smith, it's, it's an honor to have you here. And, and you're part of the MD Lifespan team as well. So you're, you're constantly speaking on a lot of what we'll cover today. So I think we'll be able to cover a lot, you know, and, and your, your background extensive with the amount of books that you've written and I would like to give actually have you do a quick maybe 30 second synopsis.

But it's, you're like in this very unique intersection of hormone research and what you do in that space, but also with how it relates to toxins and therapeutic plasma exchange and you work closely with MD Lifespan also. So I guess how are you doing today? And also if you could give us a little quick background of where your focus is primarily that'll kind of set the stage here.

Well, thank you so much for the invitation today. I greatly appreciate it. Your, your podcast is absolutely stupendous and it gives us the opportunity to really help people be healthy along with educate them in many different areas. Basically today we're going to look at what's called endocrine disrupting chemicals. That means chemicals in the body that cause your pituitary, hypothalamus and your adrenals not to work. What does that mean? That means it affects in both men and women, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, DHEA and your stress hormone cortisol. All of these are related to many things. My newest book, book number 14 just came out and is how to prevent breast cancer before and after. So it covers how to prevent it and how to Prevent a reoccurrence. And there's a whole chapter on toxins. And in the back there's a whole section on what is here now and the future. And a lot of that has to do with TPE.

I mean, 14 books. So you've been, you've seen a lot, you know, you've, you've spoken on a lot of topics, I guess. Give me the overview because I know hormones are kind of like the cross section of, I think of most of your work. Correct.

Hormones have a lot to do with everything because it's not just female hormones. When we talk about hormones, it's thyroid, the hormone that regulates everything in your entire body to insulin, the hormone that regulates blood sugar, to obviously male and female hormones. There's a lot of hormones in the.

Body that you can discuss at a high level. How do you see how that plays in with toxins since you wrote a chapter on it in your, you know, the newest book there. But it comes up in your talks. I know all the time when you're, when you're jet setting around speaking about this kind of stuff.

If you're looking at hormones, there really are endocrine disrupting chemicals that interfere with the body and how it functions. There's studies showing that it causes inflammation in the body if you have endocrine disrupting chemicals in it. Probably the simplest one and the one that is most researched is bpa, which stands for bisphenol A. And this occurs in foods, contaminated water. And then you hear maybe some fancy names beside BPAs, like BPs and BFAs and things of that nature. But the most well researched is bisphenol A, which is in toys and tablewares and plastics and medical devices and dental composites and polycarbonated bottles. In fact, they literally did a study showing that 93% of people in the US had BPAs in their urine to an appreciable level. So they are everywhere, including cosmetics.

I mean, all the way to medical equipment, you said. And I mean, it's lining our foods. I mean, all the, all this stuff and yeah, I mean, and they're these hidden. It's this almost like a hidden epidemic, a silent epidemic where this is. Yeah, it's, I guess it doesn't matter, the age, the gender, you know, everybody has some kind of effect to, I guess, this, what this relationship between hormones and toxins. Can you talk a little bit about what you're seeing there?

Oh, hugely. So, so you could start before someone's born. Because BPAs and other toxins go through the breast milk, they go through the placenta. So a healthy mom equals a healthy child. We are looking at the fact that doing tpe, therapeutic plasma exchange in a mother before she achieves a pregnancy, that will have less add, we will have less obesity, we'll have less autism, because all of these things literally, again, go through the breast milk and the placenta. It's really BPAs if you want to equal them in toxicity. BPAs are very, very strong. Estrogens and antiandrogens, meaning male hormones. They're literally very strong. So we could spend time talking to disease states that we know they're related to. Bisphenol A does cause those endocrine changes, but it's linked to heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, obesity, cancer, cognitive decline, as we said, add, adhd, psychological changes, almost every autoimmune disease you can think of. Allergies, kidney disease, liver disease, how your gut works, skin disorders, infections. I mean, there is medical literature on all of these for just bisphenol A, muscles, phthalates, and all the other toxins that we could talk about for ad nauseam.

Geez. Okay, so you hit all probably the biggest killers, right? Of. I mean, if you were to look at all the stats, I mean, that's horrible. I mean, and the fact that you said, what, about 94, 95% of people have this already in our system? Some deep BPAs of some sort. What's the solution here? Because I feel like, well, I guess, yeah, how do you think of it? Or how do you give people kind of hope in knowing that this is everywhere? And awareness is kind of just starting, I feel like. But I don't know if that's enough.

Well, part of the reason we started looking into this at MD lifespan has to do with the fact that BPAs. Honestly, five years ago, we quit measuring because we couldn't get rid of them. We would put people in a sauna, maybe get rid of 5%. But until TPE, which we'll talk about, we had no way of getting rid of most of these toxins. It's not just BPAs. We're talking about pesticides and mycotoxins, which are fungus in the body. And we're talking about different chemicals like Teflons. And what happens with not just pesticides, but everything in the environment that is now in hearing, all kinds of gadolinium and lead and mercury. I mean, there's a whole host of things. In fact, the test that we do looking at toxins is 109 of the 40,000 or 140,000 toxins that are in the environment. But the reason we started looking at this is that there were people we couldn't get better. There were people that you could do anything for in a personalized medicine approach, and they couldn't get better. We also started seeing people younger and younger have low testosterone. In males, we saw altered sperm quality and quantity so that infertility was an issue from both the male female approach. We started seeing so much obesity in children and ADD adhd. We started seeing people that couldn't even take hormones that were natural because they were so toxic and they were so inflamed that they couldn't even take a hormone to calm down the inflammation without getting rid of the toxic load first.

Geez. Wow. Okay. Why do you. I'm thinking about this. Like, why would you think this is overlooked in the medical care, you know, and routine types of checks and whatnot? Like, is it education? Is it just the ability?

Part of that is we have better ways now of measuring a lot of these toxins. Certainly since the 80s, we could get rid of lead, mercury, and cadmium. And we had great ways of chelating them out of the body by giving a chelating agent like dmsa, et cetera. And we've always known for a long time that some diseases are related to toxic metals. But over the last 20 years, it became more obvious in medical trials that toxins were playing a bigger role. We now have better ways of ridding the body of them and better ways of measuring them to begin with.

Yeah, so it's measuring, and actually, so TPE being one of the ways, which. Yeah, I definitely want to dive in a little deeper with you. I want to go back to. Because you wrote the book on breast cancer there and you have a lot of others. I'm curious how you see how this shows up differently in men versus women. You mentioned testosterone declining, but then you have, on the women's side, estrogen, progesterone. How does that all kind of play together?

How is this kind of showing up differently?

Well, from the viewpoint of being an endocrine disruptor, meaning affecting male and female hormones, there are studies showing that just BPA can cause sexual behavior problems. Accelerated puberty increases the risk of breast cancer. It basically looks at how it changed the estrogen receptors. We know that estrogen, there's, er, positive breast cancer. Pr. Positive breast cancer, meaning progesterone. But it is affected by the receptor sites and what binds to them. And the estrogen receptor sites themselves, not just the hormone levels, the receptor sites are affected by these chemicals. Also, how they bind to the receptor sites are affected as well. So there's many different fashions on how you get these endocrine changes that occur. So is there an increase in sperm issues? Yes. Is there an increase in infertility? Yes. Is there problems with the menstrual cycle that may be related to endocrine changes? Yes. Are we seeing more pcos? Yes. There is a study now on polycystic ovarian syndrome pcos, that it may be related to chemical toxicities. PCOS was ramer. When I was in Medical School 15 years ago, I was told I would see four cases in my life. My whole life used to be called Stein Leventhal. It's so common Now I see 10 cases a week. So a lot of this has to do with endocrine disruptors in the body just related to hormones. But when you're talking about males and females, just BPA itself, because I want to keep it simple for people. As one toxin, it changes the heart function. It thickens the heart. When you have BPAs, it causes the signaling pathways in the body not to work well. So BPAs in both men and women are associated with chest pain, with heart attacks, strokes. It also is associated with hardening of the arteries.

Studies are suggesting that BPAs are associated with high blood pressure. They did a big study in 2015, it was published looking at about 500 people that were 60 and over, and high blood pressure was absolutely associated with BPAs. They did really importantly a study in 2016 looking at BPAs being associated with diabetes and high blood sugar. And subsequent to that, they did another almost 30 studies showing that diabetes, insulin resistance, meaning how the hormone insulin works, was also associated all of those with BPAs. When it came to obesity, There was a great study in 2020 showed that obesity was increased by 11% in both men and women. It didn't matter whether it was the age of the patient. They still had 11% increase in obesity just related to this one toxin. And group of toxins must less the other toxins that are in the environment. And then bisphenol A in medical trials has been associated with breast cancer, colorectal, cancer, ovarian, prostate and thyroid cancers directly. There are numerous studies showing breast, prostate, all of those as an increased risk. In looking at what happens with BPA exposure, for me, one of the big scary ones as well is cognitive decline. I don't want to lose my memory as I age. My patients don't either. In 2020, they showed that BPA's impaired memory and cognition. The other studies looking at it lacked people with lack focus. So several studies showing that prenatal exposure, meaning the mother when she's pregnant, caused hyperactivity in girls and then psychological changes. We are seeing more people with anxiety and depression and things of this nature. And there are many causes of. But some studies showing that before you're born, if you're exposed to BPAs, there's a higher risk of anxiety and depression. There's a higher risk of aggressive behavior in boys as well. And then lots of studies on BPAs and autoimmune diseases. When I was in med school, there was only 24 autoimmune diseases. There's now 109. So the immune system itself is kind of turned on. And autoimmune diseases, when the body is attacking itself and the immune system gets changed and gets altered with bpa, so it will affect both immune systems. The body has two the innate immune system and the adaptive immune system. It affects both of them negatively. So, I mean, we could go on and on all day. Allergies and asthmas. There's a study from 2021 directly correlated levels of BPA associated with the severity of asthma, with the severity of allergies. It's even related to kidney decline. The number one reason for kidney decline was diabetes. But we're now seeing some of that is literally related to BPAs as well. People with what we call non alcoholic fatty liver disease, they have liver disease, but it's not related to alcoholism. Some of that is related to BPAs as well. Even gut disorders. I mean, there's people who end up never being able to fix their gut, and they do a gut health test and they do a personalized medicine approach to fix their gut and their reflux and GERD and all those other things that can occur until we get the toxins out. Some people just aren't helped. And of course, when it comes to skin, I always tell people, when it comes to your skin, start with the gut, because psoriasis and acne and many of those diseases are related to your skin. But a study that came out in 2021, it is now showing that BPA can be a factor in the development of acne and the severity of acne. So, I mean, there's a lot to talk about when we look at all of this.

Let's pause here for a moment and I want to shout out a very helpful and interactive resource that you could try out right now. And it's completely free. So we created an AI powered digital twin of Dr. Paul Savage. And right now you have the ability to chat with him through text or voice. And anytime you want 24. 7 I want you to check this out right now. It's incredible. You just open up your browser and go to MD lifespan.com chat. That's C H A T. So when you get there, you could start a chat and dive deeper into any of the topics we've talked about on this podcast. But also just anything you want to know about toxins and therapeutic plasma exchange. It's incredible. And we keep it up to date. It's trained on everything on this podcast. And also the latest and greatest of what Dr. Paul Savage has been working on over there in his practice. So try it out right now@md lifespan.com chat this is. I didn't realize it. It affected so much in every. Basically every system. It sounds like in our bodies, in our. And it's such a new thing. Bpa and like you said, all these changes in such a short period of time that our bodies are having to adapt to in some way or it's like you said, those systems are just kind of overloaded. They're fried, it seems like. Which wouldn't that lead to inflammation in all parts of the body? I would assume. Right?

It does. And almost every disease is related to inflammation. Again, a little bit heals too much, causes disease. They even looked at what happened when we did therapeutic plasma exchange in people with COVID 19 that were sick in hospitals and with people with COVID long haul. A lot of that is also related to what happens in the body when it comes to TPE itself. Again. It has been around for 50 years. We know that TPE can help with many things. Kiproff did a study a few years ago looking at the idea of longevity. That's hard to measure. How do you measure how long someone's going to stay alive? Some people say telomeres is a way of looking at it. There's many ways. But at MD lifespan, we actually did the science. We took TPE and we added nutrients and chelating agents and things to decrease inflammation. And for the first time we are able to get rid of microplastics. Nobody has ever been able to get rid of microplastics before now. Nobody has ever been able to get rid of gabilinium. That's the dye you get when you have an mri. That dye stays in you forever.

Can you get that in other ways other than MRIs?

That's certainly 99% of it.

Most. Okay, gotcha.

We can get rid of 100% of aluminum. But people get. From cooking in aluminum and many other ways you can get aluminum BPAs and phthalates. We got rid of up to 97% environmental toxins, like pesticides, up to 95% mycotoxins. You know, when I did my own toxin test, my BPAs and things weren't really high because I avoid things, you know, having good air filters and not drinking out of plastic and having filtered water. I mean, this avoidance has a lot to do with this. But I stayed obviously in hotels, hospitals. Not all places remediate when they get a water leak. And so my mycotoxins were very, very high. And so I'm having TPE myself right now too, try and get rid of the mycotoxins, the fungus, the toxic molds. And so we're. We're getting great results, selfishly.

My own toxin test, which I broke down recently with Dr. Savage on one of the episodes. So if y' all haven't seen it or heard it, go check out that episode. Yeah, my. My mold or microtoxin. So, yeah, the mold counts are just through the roof for some of them. And who knows where or how or why. But yeah, and I know they affect us all differently and so it's interesting. So you mentioned there's other ways to detox than there have been in the past, obviously. Tpe. Now, I would love for you to break that down from your perspective because there's such complex conditions. I feel like with things like mold things, that there's cancer protocols I know as well. Autoimmune. Yeah, I guess. What are some of the truths I'm thinking of? What are some of the detoxification truths that can apply to. There's avoidance. You mentioned sauna and chelation, all these things. But then I want to get into blood based, which is tpe.

Absolutely. So can you get rid of toxic metals with chelation with dmsa, edta? Many of them you can't, but not all. You cannot get rid of aluminum, you cannot get rid of gadolinium. So we can do a fairly good job since the 80s. But then when you come to microplastics, endocrine disrupting things, Teflon, all these other things, Astroturf, I mean, these environmental things, really, we haven't been very successful in medicine over time in getting rid of them. And the same thing with toxic molds. I thought all my mold was gone. I did a smaller test of five toxic molds and my test was negative. And then I did the bigger test with 109. And I'm full of mycotoxins. And so before we gave a chelating agent or actually a binding agent like charcoal and clay, or you could give a medicine called cholestyramine. By the way, it tastes terrible. I mean, truly, it's chalky, it's awful. But I did that to get rid of it years ago. But now all of this is either reaccumulated or we have a better way of measuring it. So having TPE is great. And you just sit in the chair. Okay, so it's not anything that is dramatic. You sit in the chair, they on one arm you have an iv, another arm you have an IV and out comes the plasma. In one arm, albumin goes back in and the other arm so that we can take out the toxins. We do also take out your medicines, by the way, we take out your nutrients. So before you leave, we do an hour of IV therapies to help that. And again we go chelating agents and things to decrease inflammation. If people have had memory issues or they want to prevent memory loss, then we may give other things as well to help with memory because there's a lot of studies on many things that are from memory. So what do we do TPE for? Certainly prenatally to help have a healthy baby. My friend who's a pharmacist, I sent him over because he had a heart attack and he really wanted to decrease the plaquing in the vessels of his heart. So he had three sessions of tpe. For most people, they need three to five sessions. He had three sessions and then we repeated his toxin test, which I just went over with him today, literally, and it was amazing. His hardening of the arteries was down 17%. His kidney function was better, which we didn't even expect. His kidney function improved and his toxins were much better on just three treatments. So he really has improved what's going on with his heart when it comes to autoimmune diseases. We have one patient that has four autoimmune diseases because, you know, one begets another. So people commonly get another one. She has four, four. And with tpe, I think she's going to end up with one we may not get rid of, but I think the other three were going to be successful. What we didn't realize is that for a lot of people that have long haul Covid, a lot of people that have chronic Lyme were able to bust the biofilms and help with chronic Lyme disease as well. Then we did a group of patients that did something called the gallery test, which looks at pre cancerous cells.

Oh, interesting.

And so, you know, we can have healthy cells and then over here we have cancer cells, but there's precancerous cells. And so we took 10 people that have precancerous cells, we did TPE, and all of those people had normal cells again.

Wow.

One of my friends who was recently diagnosed with breast cancer, she's having a bilateral mastectomy next week. She's going to have her chemo, etc. And then she's going to have TPE. So her goal is.

So that can all work.

Yeah. Not to get a reoccurrence. So she's going to do the conventional treatment, which is hugely important, and then she's going to try and prevent a reoccurrence by getting rid of some of the things that may have caused it to begin with, like toxins.

Wow, that's cool. Okay, so I'm curious, could you talk a little bit more on maybe the cancer side of things? Because, I mean, you wrote a lot of books and some of these read on, you know, breast cancer. You mentioned how breast cancer is similarly related to prostate on the news. You know, President Biden was just diagnosed as well. So I mean, like it's. I've known people unfortunately had passed away from it as well. I'm sure we all have know someone affected by one of those diseases. So I don't know where to start here. But like, I. I just want to understand more of how it relates to cancer and how tpe, you know, how someone could consider using that treatment as part of their, you know, the treatment plan that they might be going through or thinking about.

Well, if you take just for example, breast. And again, prostate is very closely associated with that. If you take just breast cancer, there's what we call modifiable risk factors.

And non modifiable and modifiable. The non modifiable are ones we can't change. Like maybe you have the Broka gene or something like that. That is not changeable. The great news is there's over 16 modifiable ones, ones that we can actually change. So it does matter if you have children. If you don't, it is a risk factor. It's just one. So if people listening today have never had children, that's okay. Okay. Because there's other things that you can fix as well. So it does matter if you have your children before the age of 31, it does matter if you methylate properly, meaning put a CH3 group where it belongs. I have breast cancer on both sides of my family. So you probably everybody guessed. I am a poor methylator. I inherited a gene where I don't put that little Ch3 group wear a glans. And because of that, the good news is you can fix it. You can measure it. It's fixable. So that's another risk factor that we can go with. Risk factor for breast cancer is obesity, so you can lose weight. Risk factors, insulin resistance, where insulin does not work effectively in the body. We can prevent that from happening if it's already happened, we can help that. Another risk factor is obviously toxins. So we can get rid of the toxins. And unless it's toxic metals, the rest of the environmental toxins that occur, honestly, are best gotten rid of by tpe. That's what the studies are showing.

I'm thinking now of hormones back to that and detoxing. So is there a procedure of how you approach that when you combine the optimizing hormones with like some serious detox, like tpe?

There's different ways of detoxing. So if you take hormones that goes through the liver is 75% of the detox. Okay. 25% is through the gut. So the liver is called phase one, phase two. And you can take nutrients that will improve phase one and phase two. And how you eliminate hormones like estrogen from the body. Okay. Or testosterone or whatever, any of the hormones that are sex hormones. Phase three is through the gut. So fixing the gut is helpful. But there are many people who we do that with, and they still are toxic. They still have hormones that don't belong there or these endocrine disrupting hormones. And the only way of getting rid of endocrine disrupting hormones from a big portion of them is. Is therapeutic plasma exchange. So it is becoming something that is going to be taking hold. It will change medicine for the next 20 years. I get goosebumps every day of my life that we can now help people in such a dramatic fashion and get these toxins out and lower inflammation in them. People can come to Chicago and have it done. They can come to Detroit, they can come to Orlando. Very shortly, you'll be able to come to Houston and New Jersey and Colorado. So very shortly there'll be numerous centers that are really based on groundbreaking research that is publishable.

That's so cool. Yeah. And I know studies have come out just, what, early May MD lifespan published. Dr. Savage, and I think you were on there as well. I was, uh, yeah. So that's. We'll. We'll probably Outline one of those, you know, that study in future ones on future episodes as well. That's actually what one of the things I was thinking about too is just you seeing so much of like the progression of just how this has come to be. And you're playing a key factor, like. Yeah, tell me what excites you the most. I mean, you get goosebumps thinking about the fact that you can help people now. Because I think for a long time you couldn't even test right. And see what. But then when you started testing and understanding what's in our bodies, Starting in.

About 2017, we saw a dramatic change where there was just people we couldn't fix. We started seeing, you know, breast cancer until recently has been a cancer that increased with age. And that's still in my brand new book. And for those people, here's the COVID Okay, there you go. It's still in my book. But now we're starting to see breast cancer in people that are younger and we're seeing breast cancer in 25 year olds. We're starting to see low testosterone in men when they're 30 instead of seeing it when they're 50 years of age. So starting in about 2017, we started seeing this dramatic shift where people were so toxic, they had such an accumulative added together toxic load that we really have to detox them before we can help them be healthy. And it does affect the mitochondria, the engines of the body. And so if we want to have enough energy and all of those things. You have to have detoxification. The body just has to work.

Yeah. And mitochondria is the core piece. Yeah, it's like that's driving everything upstream, Right, it does. I'm thinking of like when toxins are addressed. So through TPE and other detoxification, you know, supplementation. That happens because there's a lot within the protocols, like plasma exchange from mb, lifespan. I know there's all sorts of things in between the sessions as well. What, I guess what else could people be doing to support their vitality and feeling good? You know, outside of toxins and hormones, are there other lifestyle factors that people should be thinking about and doing?

Absolutely. When you talk about inflammation, that starts with how you eat. So eating a Mediterranean diet is always the best. People ask me, oh, what should I eat? Should I fast? Should I do this? Should I do that? Eat a Mediterranean diet.

So what are. And I could look, we can look this up, of course, but like, what would be some examples of like a pretty solid routine Mediterranean diet there.

So a Mediterranean diet. For example, one of the mainstays of their red meat is lambda, because lamb is the most easily digested meat there is. And almost all of the fat in lamb is omega 3s, the kind that decreases inflammation in the body. And of course, organic is a must. There's so many toxins that occur from the pesticides that you can. Eating organic will matter in your overall health. I was very lucky. My mother grew up on a farm that was organic. And so until I went to college, I honestly never ate anything that wasn't organic. So we went out, we took the vegetables, and we froze them and we canned them, and we even made our own jam and jelly. And so I attribute that to the fact that this is my natural color of hair at the age of just 71 in July.

That's incredible. Yeah. Good for you. I'm on the other end of the spectrum at 40, but it looks good on you. Thank you. I appreciate that. But I mean, so many life factors are lifestyle factors. So diet being what you would call that the biggest one then, right?

It is. Along with exercise. Honestly, I don't like exercising. I do not get the high that some people get out of exercising. But I started exercising when the studies showed that exercise helps detoxify the body. Then studies showed that exercise was paramount for memory. So then I went, oh, I've got to do it. But now there are studies literally showing that exercise helps prevent breast cancer.

Wow.

Do I get there out there? I do. When we leave this podcast, I will be going to exercise because usually I do that in the morning. Today I was not able to, but I will still get it in.

Good. Yeah. For someone who didn't originally love to exercise, what do you default to do as you're good?

The great thing is it can be anything. I'm going to go walk around a lake for about three miles, which will be grand if you're like me and you love dancing. There's a medical trial showing the ballroom dancing is exercise. And if you want to maintain memory, square dancing is great for it because you hear the calls. So there's a lot of different things that are exercise beside pumping air.

Okay, that's good to know. I like that. It's just get out there and move and. Yeah, it sounds like you tie your brain to the movement as well. And perfect. There's. Are there any other. I would say daily habits and maybe we'll end on this. Some actionable things that people can do that can make a difference in protecting our hormones I'm thinking like after you kind of balance things out, get things. So to prevent further disruption down the.

Line, just de stress.

De stress, yes.

No matter how stressful the world is, will help all of us. You will detoxify better if you're less stressed. It balances the rest of your female and male hormones if you're less stressed. So if I could just choose one thing, take a chill pill and actually prayer, meditation, tai chi, yoga, qigong, exercise, massage, breathing technique, acupuncture, acupressure, take a little time for yourself and really help yourself because healthy.

I was just going to ask you for a couple and you just listed like the full encyclopedia. So like if, if you don't have an idea, y' all definitely, yeah, go just try one of those that you just listed. And Dr. Pam Smith, I mean this is, I've chatted with you before and this is like a whole another angle now you know that we've taken here in this, on this show. So thank you for, for bringing your wisdom here. And you know, you're, you're also working with MD lifespan like I said and Dr. Savage, what director of Education, Chief Growth Officer. So you're out there speaking on this stuff all of the time. What's a, what's a great way people can go and follow you personally? Go find your books and dive a little deeper.

Actually you can just go on Amazon and find any of my books that you want to find. That's always the best way because like for example, this book, the references are not in here, they're online so that they're updated all the time so that you get continued update information. You can also go to my website, obvious name and you can go to my website and see any speaking engagements I may have in your area.

Awesome. Well, I appreciate you so very much. I know we all do, you know, at MD Lifespan, Dr. Savage and hopefully those watching and listening to you got something. So appreciate your time and we'll talk very soon.

Thank you so much for the invitation. I appreciate it.

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