Getting World-Class Results with Russell Lowery

Welcome back to Owner Occupied. Today I have with me Russell Lowery, and if you're a new listener, you may not know this, but Russell and I co-hosted the first season of Owner Occupied, and there was actually some really great content that came out of those conversations. And if you haven't had a chance, you can go back and listen to that. Those are all still published and accessible on the various podcast platforms. Russell, welcome back to Owner Occupied.

It's good to see you, Peter. Appreciate the invitation.

Yeah, I'm so happy to have you here and to kind of turn the mic around because during season 1 you asked me a lot of questions and, um, now I get to ask you some questions and that, that's exciting for me. Um, I also have to say thank you, Russell, because you got this show going. You literally DM'd me out of nowhere and took— what did you do? You took a clip from some video I had, some podcasts I was on, some other podcast You, you had your team turn that clip into like a nice, uh, shareable for socials with the captions at the top and bottom. And you were like, hey, what do you think of this? I was like, wow, this is amazing. And then we got to talking and you, you said something like, I think you do really well on a podcast. Have you ever thought about that? It's kind of something that we do, you know, for our clients, but I'd be happy to do that with you. And that truly altered the course of my life, Russell. So I honestly, From the bottom of my heart, thank you. And if you're listening and you're getting value out of the show, you can also thank Russell for plucking me out of obscurity a little bit, um, 30 years ago or whatever that was. Uh, what's your memory of this, Russell?

I— it's the, it's the same thing, and I, I've, I've given up the struggle, but, uh, guys like you, uh, have given me so much value out of Twitter, uh, and I just wanted to give something back and add some value. So to have my team turn around a little clip and just give it to you and then encourage you to put— I want more people to have access to you and your thoughts. And so pushing you to do that was just my way of trying to give back to both you and to a bunch of other people who have given me a lot. So I compete mentally against maybe everybody in the world. And I just want to die having given more value than I've gotten. Is kind of the mental picture that I have. Um, and I'm way behind, dude.

No, I think you're way ahead. I think you're way ahead. Um, and you know, something I've noticed about you and learned from watching you is that you have a talent for identifying talent, a talent for identifying talent.

Yeah.

Sorry, it's a little confusing to say it that way, but, um, and not to— I don't want this to be about me. There's other folks that you've identified early, and I know that you do this when you're looking for employees. I know this, I know you do this as you're looking at your clients for your businesses. Um, is this just an intuition that you have where you see that someone has something and you're like, okay, there's something there, I'm going to cultivate that, I'm going to bring that person in and encourage them? Um, because I think that's a super valuable skill.

Uh, I'm, I'm not really sure where it comes from, but it is, it's In my mind, it's what I do that's world-class. I think about how to get the best out of people, and I look for the best in people. My life was turned around because somebody saw stuff in me that I didn't even know existed and put me on a completely different life path because they had a vision for me. I say that guy because I didn't even know what he was doing for me at that time. My way of kind of thanking him is just to approach the world the same way. Everybody I meet, everybody I'm looking, I'm looking for what is it that they're good at? What's the best of them and how can I help them? My life's been My life was changed because someone did that for me, and I try and do it for other people.

So great. So great. And so refreshing for me to hear that. Refreshing in the sense that it's a reminder to me of what's important. So I want to— I got so excited, I forgot to do the intro that I normally do. I ask people to give a couple of minutes, so maybe take like 1 to 2 minutes and just give a history on you, where you— not where you came from, because I want to get to that later, but like what you're doing now.

Oh, sure. I'll start with— I'm a government and political affairs expert, and I apply that expertise to help builders get projects built, to help people win in the legislative and political process, get a yes or no from a government agency in some capacity, and then in helping businesses sell their products to city, state, and local government. So that's what I'm currently doing now. Prior to doing this, I was a chief deputy at the Board of Equalization, which collects sales and use tax in California. Prior to that, I was a lobbyist for PG&E, the largest utility in the state of California. And before that, I was chief of staff to the Senate Caucus in California. I negotiated the state budget, and I try and give people a sense, but I was the top staffer when the governor and the legislative leaders came to the deal. I was the last staffer in the room. I understood what it took to do the deal and getting the votes out of the legislature and all the interest groups that go into making sure the budget can pass. And then I was chief of staff to multiple members before that. And so that's been my political life. And it's been a great road. I love doing what I do. I would expect to be doing some version of what I do on when I die.

Love it. So, uh, a heavy political background, heavy hitter in terms of— and you're in California, I don't know if you said that, but, um, so state politics in, in one of the most important states in the country. And I know that you've had a ton of success. I mean, you can hear it just in your bio in, um, getting things done, uh, in the political world. Which is an area that myself and probably I would venture to say 99% of my listeners have no experience and no— it's like, it's like not even knowing what we don't know. Like I have no knowledge of the landscape, how things happen, what works. Like, so it's very, it's fascinating to— and we should clarify a little bit. So you do a lot of work in, you do a lot of work for real estate clients. And you mentioned real estate developers. I know that one of your biggest clients is the, the California Rental Housing Association. You mentioned like 24,000 property owners represented there with over 600,000 units. So you're working with, with legislators and other political folks to advocate on behalf of your clients. And to do that in California is It's a tall, tall order, I feel like.

Definitely, definitely. One of the, one of the things I do is I defer to other people's expertise. And I was a lobbyist in the building. I do not lobby now. Mainly is I don't have the network and relationships to understand each of the legislators individually as human beings that it takes. And I know the lobbyists that that put that work in, that that's what they do every day. And so I feel like I could probably sell that service, but that would be a scummy thing to do because the general public, yourself, if you're going to hire, you might know a political person and they know more than you do. And you could hire a person like that, but they don't have enough knowledge to do what it takes. So I work with lobbyists who have those relationships. And for most of my clients, I'm picking the right lobbyist that that represents them, and I'm making a recommendation on who we ought to work with and put that team together, and then holding that lobbyist accountable for actually delivering for what my clients need.

Okay, got it. And maybe, um, maybe it would be interesting to get an update from you on housing policy in California, specifically for landlords, because as California goes, the rest of the country tends to follow, not in lockstep, but it paints a picture of what might be coming down the road. So what's been recently passed statewide in terms of housing policy and what is sort of under discussion right now?

So statewide, there was a bill, Assembly Bill 1482, that set a statewide rent control limit that was CPI plus 5%. And that, uh, that was a hard-fought, uh, negotiated conclusion to that, to that fight. And, and most rental property owners felt they could make a good living at CPI plus 5%. Um, and there's pressure to lower that percentage— CPI— uh, there's pressure to lower that percentage, uh, to eliminate it or minimize it.

So Does rent factor into CPI?

Uh, it does, it does.

Okay, so that's interesting because there's going to be a little bit of, uh, like, uh, it's like a feedback mechanism. Like, I don't know, it's like everyone's raising their rent, CPI plus 5%, but then that feeds back into CPI.

It's such a small— it's a, it's a broad basket measure of inflation. And so, uh, typically when we negotiated that, it was, uh, it was much lower with that inflation spike, you've, you've now had, you know, you can get rent increases of 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12%. So, so, uh, that, uh, whether or not that's accomplishing the purposes, uh, that's on the statewide level, that's one. And then, uh, just cause eviction, uh, what are the circumstances when you, upon which you can evict the tenant? The The legislature has tried to narrow that every year. There are bills to narrow exactly why you can evict a tenant. And then I guess one of the policy things that's under the radar but is concerning for me as I've watched the landscape is the government is funding eviction assistance. California has one of the lowest eviction rates in the country, uh, much lower than the rest of the state, uh, rest of the country, uh, according to Princeton Labs, which is Eviction Lab, is the best data. Um, uh, so we're primarily, we're evicting when tenant has refused to pay, and our win rate in court is in the high 90%. Um, so having the state intervene and pay for attorneys on the other side is not changing outcomes, but it's making it much more expensive and longer, and it's not changing the outcome in court. So those are, those are just 3 that I think are rolling out. And then there's a statewide initiative that we call— that we think of as a nuclear bomb that, that's— that keeps property owners awake at night. And that is a rent control limit that would prevent you from bringing your rent to market when, when it's vacant.

Vacancy control.

Vacancy control. And that is, that is a nightmare scenario. That is an all-hands-on-deck, uh, we will and must fight that. And in California, that means, uh, likely $150 million fight to beat that at the ballot box. And I'll be in the middle of that fight as well.

Okay. Yeah. And is— does New York City have some version of that?

New York has the worst property rights protections in the country now, and they have a version of that. And I'm not really familiar with all of the details of New York, but we're supportive of the legislative efforts— I mean, the legal efforts in New York City to theirs is so bad that we want that to be the test case that gets to the Supreme Court on at what point is it just a taking and a violation of contract. But that's a worst-case scenario.

Okay, it is a worst-case scenario. So yeah, the phrasing or the language here is vacancy control and vacancy decontrol. Under the rent control umbrella. And those are very, very different and important to distinguish between them. Vacancy decontrol is when you can adjust the rent while the property's vacant. Like, hello, that's what everyone expects you to be able to do. Vacancy control means even if a tenant moves out, you're still capped at that whatever CPI plus X percent, or if it's just CPI or whatever it is, or if it's just a flat percent. And I guess the idea there is like vacancy control removes the incentives for property owners to evict tenants just to get the rent raised. I remember like that New York City comes to mind whenever I hear that because I feel like they've got some version of that, like you said.

Well, I think one of the— I mean, some of the unintended consequences, it's fun to think through, but we have owners who are— who are— were happy at a certain point to um, they've got a good tenant, they don't need to push the rent, maybe there's a financial situation, they could give an accommodation. When you, when you limit my ability to get to market later or to raise rent, uh, if I skip a year, then it's lost and gone forever. So now you have an incentive to maximize your rent increase every year because you're— it's It's hundreds of thousands of dollars in valuation if you don't. And then if you, and then if you add the risk that you might not ever be able to get back to market, you, the consequence of not raising rent gets more and more expensive. And we've done a good job of explaining that and winning on those issues at the state legislature, even a very progressive state like California, when we when we can privately meet with legislators, we don't ask them to be champions for rental property owners, but we try and explain the real-world impact on people and, and find messengers and people who can have a conversation and build a relationship with a legislator to explain that we can kill it. So that's forced the tenant advocates to fight at the local level and then to fight at the initiative level and try and go to the voters directly.

Yeah, well, the good news if you live in Ohio or you own property in Ohio is that Ohio banned rent control statewide. Now, we've had other resident-friendly laws passed on a local level. So here in Columbus and a few cities right in central Ohio, they've passed rules around source of income discrimination and certain things around security deposits and rental receipts, none of which was overly burdensome. I do bristle a little bit about the source of income discrimination protection, mostly because dealing with the local Section 8 housing authority is a complete and total nightmare here. And so we're being forced to deal with this entity that has no incentive to operate with any kind of speed or efficiency. And it's costing our property owners money and it's costing our residents the ability to actually move in in a timely fashion. So interesting that Ohio is, you know, was able to move that direction. The Ohio legislature is fairly red, even though here in Columbus it's quite blue.

Right. It's that I think your, your insight onto the Section 8 is what we I think we unsuccessfully tried to explain that to the legislators. The idea that a guaranteed government check arriving every month seems pretty secure and ideal. The presentation that somehow it was discriminating against the recipients of that check, most property owners are are far more loyal to the, the figure in their bank account to any potential prejudice against a recipient of government funds. But the headache of dealing with the agency is the issue. And we— you see different responses based on the reputation of the Section 8 agency around the state.

Around—

sometimes property owners are clamoring to get the Section 8 check in certain circumstances. They want it. That's their business model because the agency is easy to deal with and they can get their money. In other cases, it's a nightmare.

I've threatened for years to start a competitor. What's interesting about these local housing authorities is there's only one in Columbus, but many cities have multiple. And Columbus, for how big it is now, it's probably time for there to be a second one. At least then we'd have two. I don't know how directly they would be competing, but the one we have here, CMHA, Columbus Metropolitan Housing Authority, complete and total nightmare. And they somehow recently made it worse by outsourcing. There was just all these headlines. These organizations operate as a "nonprofit," and yet you look at the salaries of the directors and such, and you're like, "Okay, I could operate as a nonprofit. All I have to do is raise my salary such that the net income is zero on these. I'm like, okay, like, okay. So, um, they— and these guys, uh, who run this, this comp— this nonprofit, um, made a bunch of headlines recently by, quote, saving money by outsourcing a bunch of the jobs to like a contract firm. And it was already bad enough, and of course we knew that as soon as you outsource a core component of your, of your service and your delivery, it's gonna quality is going to go downhill. And of course it instantly did. Um, so somehow this guy got all these headlines and praise for like saving the agency money, and yet the, the actual impact on the people who are living in these buildings with vouchers is, is negative. So how do you explain that? I don't know. This is why people get frustrated with politics, I guess. You've somehow managed to find a way to be successful and make a living and, and haven't gotten fed up yet, I guess.

I, I, I like studying why things happen and thinking about why things happen. And, and one of the, one of the lessons I learned along the way is that governing is really hard and, and the solutions are, are not easy and the implementation is hard.

It's—

we understand that in business, every dollar of revenue is hard earned. And if you're making a profit, You've got to deliver a service. You've got a process in place. It's hard. It's the same in government. And I look at a lot of the problems that we face, and I often think that if you got involved, if we had a political process where what you know about housing was involved in the political process, you could add some value there.

Uh, what—

in, in what capacity and in what way, it's to be determined. But it could be that, uh, we make a housing authority and it makes sense for you to get involved in that as a, as a, as a sense. And I, I come up with different strategies. Okay, how would we get you funded? What would you need? Could it be a pilot?

Could it be a pilot program?

Could it, could it be in one section of Columbus and then we compare, uh, what the uptake rates in Section 8 are in in one part of the city versus another? Enough to get funded to get started to begin to collect those checks. What's the revenue model for the business? Using an auditor to examine the books and records, compare the salaries in housing agencies around. There's all the things that you would start to do to begin to do something like that. But it's Governance is hard, and seemingly easy solutions often have complicating factors. And because you're not engaging with the complication, you see a seemingly obvious, simple solution. It's likely that there's something else going on on why that solution won't work is generally what's going on.

Yeah, it's the old Chesterton's fence, right? Don't take a fence down until you understand why it was put there in the first place. That plays out in so many different ways. I mean, it's all the rage, uh, these days to buy a business, right? You see a lot of these MBA types coming in, buying these sweaty startups, uh, or not buying sweaty startups, but they're buying home service businesses or, uh, manufacturing or like, and, uh, I think they get the idea that they're gonna come in, they're super smart, they're highly educated, they've taken the right courses and listened to the right podcasts, and they're just gonna come in and just totally transform the business and double growth and cut the salary, cut the staff, and they're going to use systems and processes to totally, um, just outperform. And then reality hits them in the face like a ton of bricks because the owner is actually not an idiot, uh, the seller, uh, and knows their business and knows how to run it efficiently and profitably. And usually things are set up the way they are for a reason. Now that doesn't mean there's not room for improvement, but Um, the— it's very, very difficult in my experience to tease out what is a change that's going to be destructive and what is a change that's going to actually have a net positive outcome when you're talking about making a change to an existing structure, whether that's a government or a law or a, or a business or an employee or a process. It's, it's harder than it seems. When I was younger and brasher, I was way more confident about my ability to forecast and predict what would happen if you make a change to a system, especially with a systems engineering background. I was like, I got this figured out, this is— these people are idiots. I just, you know, you can just look at it and see what's going to happen. Well, there's, there's usually some second-order effects that are, uh, hidden, right?

And, and there's people involved in the most complex, uh, system we have as a human being, and we interact with every day, and we tend to have a narrow view of people and human beings and a very poor understanding. And I'm guilty of this too. I bought a print shop and I knew I could work out the problems because I could sell more printing. And I could sell— it turns out I could sell way more printing than my shop could produce. And, and selling more, these people had to print it. And, and, and the machines and everything that work had to do it. And these were complicating factors in people's lives and, and what they were getting and what they were doing and what they signed up for. It was humbling for me to just go through the process of learning, of learning by breaking. Piecing stuff together. It's been, it's been great.

Yeah, I'd love an update on the print shop. So near the end of season 1, you were in contract, or you had just purchased this print shop, and I'd love to hear how it's gone. What's the latest? You know, let's get an update.

Oh, it's been bad. It's a— no, no, it's been, it's been good from a learning experience. It's been okay from a money experience, but from a In my core business in Highview, and this doesn't come across if you know me from Twitter, it doesn't necessarily come across, but I'm sort of arrogant about the political process. I believe I understand it better than— I don't know anybody that knows it better. And I love being among the very best of what I do. I have a lunch this afternoon and I'm going to meet with some killer guys and we're just going to chop it up. And I just know it's going to be great because they're really— we all know we're really good at it, like, and we, we know who's not, you know, and that sort of stuff. And I entered this print world and, and my print stuff's just all right. It's like— and then I, then I met a bunch of people in the print industry And I met a bunch of people who were really, really good, and I started sending, uh, business their way. Instead of— like, I didn't direct my client business to an inferior product. I met all these people who are really good. At this point, I probably sold and delivered more print to my competitors than I actually delivered and grew to my print shop. So, um, because, I mean, take yard signs. People spend money on yard signs, uh, in, in California, uh, tens of millions of dollars a year spent on yard signs. I can produce and sell people yard signs, but I met a guy who that's all he does is print yard signs. He's got the equipment, he's got the team, they've been doing it for 15 years. And most of the people in my world who are selling yard signs are just selling them or marking up and selling them to that guy to print the yard signs and selling them. Because my machine that prints yard signs goes. And Johnny's going to edit that out, but it's not an attractive sound, but it takes 45 seconds. And the machine that sounds when he's printing them out is chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk. It's cranking them out. And so for my clients, I don't sell them my yard sign. I just, I get them a good deal because that's my brand. And so, uh, so it's been— I had delusions of, of having this major new massive print shop, and it's been more of a limp-along value add for my clients, uh, for what I wanted it to be when I started. To what it is today. It's more of a value-add. So when it makes sense, I do it. I keep the shop open and I keep everybody busy, but it's not— I wouldn't, I wouldn't say I run the finest print shop in, in— I don't run the finest print shop in California. I've, I run a good one, and I know better ones, and I often send them to the better ones. So that's— yeah, that's where it is.

You know, that's— there's times when I'm talking with a potential client, um, especially when it's a friend of mine or someone I know really well in, in the business community locally, and they say, oh, I've got thus and such property, um, I'm looking for a property manager. There's times when I pause a little bit because when you know someone personally or you, or you work with them in a different context and then you refer them to your own company, the pressure's on to deliver because you know you're going to see that person outside of your business. You're going to see them, you know, socially or, or whatever. And if your team messes up or you mess up or something bad happens at the property, that could alter that relationship forever. And, um, there's been periods through the history of RL Property Management where I haven't felt as confident in our own ability to deliver great outcomes for property owners. And that I've been tempted to just say, oh, just go talk to these guys. They're honestly better with that type of property. So I, I relate to that a little bit. Um, it's a knife fight down here in small business ownership and management. Um, consulting, and, uh, you know, that's a different, totally different business model. Like, what— so for Highview, which is your, your— I don't know whether you call it a consulting or PR or Yeah, it's, um, what, what translates to a print shop, um, and what really doesn't? Like, how, how are those businesses similar and how are they different? Because it's totally, totally different, but I'm sure there's some things that are similar.

The, the printing business is more of a commodity-type business. Uh, the, the paper and ink and printing skills, uh, everyone has similar access to similar products, uh, and Finding a niche or a vertical or a differentiator where you can earn a higher margin is what you want to do in that, in that space. And so the margins are much better in the high view world. And, and most of the product, what I think of as the most valuable product, is the strategy and the plan to win. And that's— that comes out of my head, and it comes— often comes at 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning as I'm tossing and turning and I'm thinking about that stuff. Um, uh, the most valuable thing to my print customer comes off of the printer after the ink and the paper have been done. They're not asking— often asking for my expertise. So, um, where I've shifted the business is I pretty much just defer to the printer and the print shop on all of the commodity printing business stuff. And then where, where I, where I make a margin or where we— I think we do. And where I— where the overlap between the consulting business is, is when I've applied a strategy and marketing plan to us, to a small business development project, and I'm using digital advocacy, print, telephone and, and communication strategy to try and earn a small business more business. That's a, that's a higher value add, and that's, that's where my mental energy in that part of the business goes. And then keeping the printer full with political mail, and I print political mail for people. I can do it for people all over the country, but I do it for people all over California.

Got it. The agency model where you have a number of clients and you're, you're basically being paid to solve problems for them— I was listening to a podcast the other day and they were talking about how, at least in the small business world, it's almost impossible to find a good marketing company which operates under a similar agency model because— and they were, they were saying that if a marketing agency has 20 clients they're not awake at 2 in the morning tossing and turning about a problem that one of their clients is facing, right? That, that's not, that's not what happens. Because what ends up happening is these agencies with dozens and dozens of simultaneous clients, you know, they're just kind of turning the crank on the same thing that they do for everybody. Um, and I also think about this in relation to our property management business. Sometimes I think our clients expect that I'm awake at 2 in the morning thinking about their vacant unit and how we're going to get it leased and how we're going to get creative. And maybe we should be putting yard signs and going door to door asking, do you need a place to rent? And like posting signs in grocery stores. And like, you hear this feedback sometimes. And so I'm fascinated that you figured out a way to, um, to actually engage in the— at this very high level. Like, you're awake at 2 in the morning thinking about your client's problems. Like, What's the structure that's enabling that to happen? Is it— are you limiting the number of clients that you're working with at a time to make sure that you have that mental bandwidth?

Uh, no, I think it's more, uh, I think it's more— it's who I am. And, and I know that we have a little different view of this, but, um, but I love the work. Like, uh, I love impacting the public policy. I I like the validation of my strategy of— and winning. And so my clients, uh, my clients feel it. I think some— most of them feel it and come to understand it. Um, but oftentimes I think for all of them, I care more about winning than they do. They're paying me to win. Um, but if they're doing what I'm asking them to do and I came up with this strategy, I am so invested in it I'm not up at 2 o'clock in the morning because they're paying me. I'm up because I'm thinking about that. And oftentimes I like— if you looked at the testimonials on my website, the people who hire me are other killer lobbyist and PR firms in town who have gotten gunked up, like it's not working and we're stuck. And then they've come to me, we know each other, and they say, hey Russell, can you take a look at this? What do you think? And I don't take them, I don't even get back to them until I've got something that I think, oh, this is how we would do that. And so you'll see like some of the times when I'm interacting on Twitter or I'm engaging with, you know, the various folks on Twitter, I'm thinking about solutions to their problem. I'm visualizing the strategy. By the time I even approach a client, I've got a full vision for how we're going to win, or I need to learn more about their business or what they're going to be bringing to the table. So that's one thing. But also to be helpful to your listeners and, and to you as you think about it, is I've learned this is not scalable. When I read the book, I think you recommended it, but Built to Sell, we talked about it. I read that book. Built to Sell, and I realized the business that I had was not going to fit in that model. I was not going to earn a multiple. No one's going to pay a business that's dependent on Russell waking up at 2 in the morning. Like, uh, and it's— but it's a life. I— that's why I said I expect to be doing some version of this when I die. But, um, but I also recognize that it's not scalable. I've sold probably— I've sold $10 million worth of high-view services over the years, but every year I got to start over and what am I going to sell next year? It's a constant sort of process on that. And so I thought maybe when I started the printing business, I had this vision of how I could have multiple printers in different areas and I would scale or grow that. And then I realized, no, that's not what I want to do for the reason of I Is that going to be the best in the world? Am I going to be the best printer and, uh, and be able to tell everybody I meet, yeah, print with me and don't print with anybody else? If you need to get something done with government in California, I believe you ought to call me. I don't know your situation, but I believe that. And so I can— and if I'm not, then I'll connect you with somebody else that is. Um, so I built— that's why I did the other— I built this other procurement business, this government sales and procurement business that we're building from the ground up. And it is— it leverages my political insight into how the process works, but it's much more, uh, it's much more systemized. Um, and we can onboard clients and we can interact with cities, states, and counties, um, to sell goods, services to cities and counties in the state. And that's a business that, I will grow and I'll have a multiple, and it uses the best of what I've got about my understanding of government services, but it's a business that can earn a multiple.

Yeah, and I love that you found something that clicks so deeply for you that you are waking up at 2 in the morning, and like, it's so clear for you that this is what you were built to do and that you're super good at it. Um, and by the way, we need to get CalNARPM to connect with you and advance our interests in the state of California. Um, so something else I, I've observed about you, which you touched on this, uh, a moment ago, is that your, when you respond by voice, by email, over Twitter, um, your response is always very well considered and thought out. And like you mentioned earlier that like you're not even gonna reply until you've thought of a strategy. And I actually think that it's super rare these days. I think. The culture today is very much off-the-cuff responses with little thought. It's like a race to see who can reply first. And, um, it's actually, uh, I think when you have high-quality replies, um, that you have, and this actually reminds me of my business partner, he's similar in this way. Um, they tend to get overlooked because they get lumped in with the other noise, the, the 100 replies to the tweet or. Or what have you, and people don't— aren't realizing like, oh wait, this guy actually sat and thought about this for 25 minutes before he typed it out. Maybe I should give it some consideration.

You know, um, you know what's funny about that, uh, is— and I find this in every area of my life, um, but I, I have a crazy network of, of high-achieving smart, talented people that I have a relationship with. If— and I see this on Twitter, I see it a lot where, where people are scrambling to get sort of the big guys' attention or, or do this sort of thing. And what I found is in trying to be thoughtful and bringing and putting my best self forward and trying to bring out the best in others, people like you recognize it. And so, so, uh, I, I don't want to name drop. I don't, but I have all of the people that— a lot of the people that people are scrambling to meet have somehow found me, engaged with me, uh, following and talk to me, and I'm in their DMs. Um, and I see other people scrambling to get their attention as opposed to just just focus on bringing your best self forward. But what I found is often the case is, is someone like those people, someone like you will say, hey, I met this great guy, Russell. He can be a big help. Let me introduce you. And then I get there and they're like, Peter, what's the deal? Like, you and I have had a bunch of interactions and we've— we see each other a certain way. And then somebody else who's not thinking or valuing things in the same way, that thoughtful response or that purposeful intention, they don't know why are all these people responding that way. And for me, I just take it as I'm not everybody's cup of tea. And but I manage by doing it this way to attract more of the right the people I'd rather spend time with. And but I don't, I don't even discriminate based on that. I pretty much, if you're interested in what I have to say, I'm going to try and be interested in what you have to say, is kind of my approach. Uh, and it tends to attract, uh, really bright people.

Well, it's a great way to move through life. It's a very, um, positive, uh, outlook in it. I feel like it's a way to kind of bring some light into the world. When we're so used to folks being super negative or super isolated. You know, you can't talk to me. And maybe I'm a hypocrite here because I do— I charge for my time pretty aggressively these days. But— and that's why I love reconnecting with you, because you sort of refresh and reset some of my ego in a way which, which I definitely need.

You're right. You're an accomplished person. You've got You've done a lot. You've put your expertise on display and you've attracted an audience to that. And you should be proud of that. And I look forward— I mean, you're going to figure out, you know, what's the impact you want to have in the world? What are those goals and objectives? And I will probably have some role in helping you get there if I can.

Love it. So you, Russell, have a really inspiring story. I don't think we've talked about this on this podcast before, not even in season 1. You shared before the show a tweet that detailed some of your upbringing and some of the challenges that you faced and some of the hope that entered your world. I'd love if you could relay this. I think this is super powerful.

Yeah, I will. I was probably guilty a little of oversharing. Some folks gave me some— who care about me gave me some feedback on it. We live in a culture maybe where poverty is seen as some kind of virtue. I don't view it that way. But growing up, my dad was an alcoholic. When he died, he was one of those homeless people that you would see in the in cities across America. That picture, it was a home filled with abuse. I lived in projects in the Bronx. I lived in a bad neighborhood in the Bronx, and my family and everybody I knew had been born as far back as everybody knows within a few block radius of this of this world. And that was largely the world that I grew up in and my picture of the world and what was possible was shaped and framed by that. We moved around, eventually moved around a bit. And I joined the military and I took some tests and I was assigned, I picked a became a naval cryptologist. And an officer at some point was reviewing my record and he saw the test scores. He gave me some other work to do. And he just asked me what I was doing in the military, that I should— why didn't I go to college? And I, you know, at the time I thought college costs $35,000 a year. I hope to make $35,000 a year eventually. He got me transferred to a military base in California. He got me enrolled in Solano Community College. Um, uh, I showed up to Solano. I didn't know what community college was. I showed up to Solano Community College. I bought the t-shirt, I had the, I had the sweatshirt, I had the thing. I'm in the front row. I would not have felt differently if I was arriving on Harvard campus.

I didn't know.

I just didn't know. I didn't know there was anything. Dang, I showed up, I raised my hand.

Hey, this is college. College is a big Big deal.

I'm in college. I'm in college. I did— I didn't know. Um, uh, and that, that process of, um, that process of discovery and learning and meeting people and, and showing up in, in places I just didn't fit— I didn't know. I, I, I mean, and has happened throughout my life and career. Um, and I, I, I referred earlier, but when I say that guy, that that officer at the time. I've looked at military records. I've made attempts over the years to find out who that person was. But I don't know. It was— he did something for me. He saw something in me and wanted more for me than I even wanted at the time. And because I didn't even know. And my kids and my family and trajectory. The last time I'd been back to that neighborhood in the Bronx, I went back for my dad's funeral. And that was the last, that was it. And my kids don't know anything about that. Like, they just don't know anything about that world. And I'm glad. Nothing glamorous about it.

Yeah. The naval officer, so he was anonymous to you at the time? Like you just, you got a notification one day that said, hey, someone, Yeah, he wouldn't have been someone I was interacting with all the time.

He was in charge of the cryptology unit. I was a performer in that unit. I could— the code work that I was doing was the occasion for me interacting with him. And then he pulled my— he, based on something he saw, he pulled my record, called me in, asked me who I was. Probably heard some version of the story that I just told you. And he decided to take action to say, the Navy's not where I want you. I think you should do this. Here's how college is possible. He walked me all the way through that. And I wouldn't say he mentored me through that. He just ordered me to a different base and ordered me and got me enrolled in college and walked me through that. And by the time I knew what he was doing and the impact of what he was doing, it was anonymous.

Okay, got it. Okay. Fascinating. Yeah. Well, maybe he's a listener and he'll reach out.

I suspect that— I suspect he wouldn't recognize the story because people like that have probably done it lots of times. It's probably how he lived his life. That's how I've I would love for him to know. I'd love to tell him thank you. I'd love to have him see the picture. I think of him often when I see my kids and the different future that they have. And when I started this conversation with the resume and that sort of thing, there's no way he could have envisioned the massive impact he had by changing one life. And that's where I When I think and I interact with people and I try and help or I try to put people in the right position or give them a hand, it's not just out of gratitude for that, but it also, I think, it maximizes my impact. What other— what bigger change can I have in my life than to help somebody achieve their dreams or push them in a direction that's going to be good for them?

That's perfect. Yeah. Perfect segue to talk about Own Stuff. So I want to highlight and give you a platform here for a few minutes to talk about the work that you're doing as a way to give back. And it sounds like maybe to kind of follow in the footsteps of the naval officer that, that altered your trajectory. So, um, you and I have chatted a little bit, uh, over the last year or so, as you've kind of stood this up, share a little bit about what, what is Own Stuff, who's involved and, uh, what's the goal here.

Well, I'm, I'm still figuring it out. But what I, what I did realize is a lot of what I've learned primarily through Twitter, I've stopped being embarrassed about saying that people outside my world have come into it and become a part of it and taught me things. And I felt an obligation to not just increase it for myself, but to try and share it with my younger self to say, hey, there's a lot of people out here who could benefit that some of this stuff is timeless truth. And so I took some of the content that I got from Ayesha Seldon on just basic core financial services. I took some of Sweaty Startups material. Nick Huber has developed a lot of startup businesses that Anyone could start, you could be making money by next week in a, in a business, in an ownership capacity. And then Moses Kagan, who talks about real estate and private equity. And then Chris Powers, who, who talks a lot, he talks a lot about industrial real estate, obviously, but he talks about business. And behind all of that, and I don't even know if he fully appreciates this yet, but he talks a lot about maximizing your impact, maximizing your impact in your life and your business. And the way he goes about doing things, that's really what I've taken from them. And so I wrote it up, I shared it with all of them before I put it up on the website, and they gave me permission. Um, any, anything that's good and useful, uh, is, is from them. Anything that I've That's not helpful or wrong. That can be my addition. And so they're not responsible for that content. It's what I've taken from them. But I've created that venue to share it. The challenge, and I'm happy to talk to you and other folks about this, is the audience I've got now tends to be high-achieving, successful, driven people. And that's who my natural reach is. Um, and so when I talk about politics or business or Highview or the stuff that I'm doing now, um, I attract an audience of people who can maximize the value of what it is that I do. Um, but that's not the audience I want to reach with the OWNSTUFF material. I want to reach, uh, an audience that I don't have now, which is, um, there's some stats that show, uh, that just on wealth trajectory, the income gap in between Black and other segments of society. Black wealth is headed to zero, where the average white household is multiples wealthier than the average Black household. And white wealth is increasing and Black wealth is declining. And there's some of this content that's on that website that's going to be, hey, I don't know if that'll change, but I think it should happen over my objection. And so creating some content that can help avoid that direction is something, but it's also something I'm going to need a lot of help in order to maximize because I can't teach all the lessons. But more importantly, some of the things I'm building are designed to put this content into more people's hands and get younger people and get minority kids engaged with the content to change some of that mindset. And it's not all yet. So again, I don't have that audience now. So it's something I'm figuring out on the best way to do that.

Got it. Well, I love the concept and that is a challenge, right? How do you reach the audience that really needs to hear it? Where are they? I guess they're on TikTok or probably other platforms where you and I are active. Um, yeah, that's a challenge. Um, maybe, maybe some of the listeners will have some ideas or resources or, or, um, I don't know, like I, this is an area where I'm, I'm out of, I'm out of my element, right? Like we, like you were talking about, I mean, we've got the, the audience that's more, they don't need the, the, right. They're already, um, successful to, to a large extent.

So, well, I think one of the things that you can think about whether you or anyone else in your audience wants to gauge is there's two elements. There's one, there's the content creation. Um, so how do I— and this is something I've got, and I'll have a cohort in the fall that's going through it, but I engaged with a nonprofit, um, uh, in, in Sacramento, and we will produce, um, a 12-week course on entrepreneurship that I'll take, um, some some inner city kids from zero to opening up, open up, open a business. If they, if they put in the work and they come to all 12 modules, at the end of the day they will own a business. Um, and that's the, that's, uh, so I'm, I'm putting and working on that content today. Um, but, uh, having people engage with, uh, that content, and my goal with that is to is to develop some content that you or any business-minded, sophisticated person— this module or content would be reproducible. So we could do it with any Boys and Girls Club, any Chamber of Commerce could take this on as a project, any— the Kiwanis Club, the— you know, any social organization could reproduce the content so that we could train some entrepreneurial skills and take it. So I'm going to do the first one to try and figure it out myself, to draw the audience and to, and to put together the content. But if anyone has some ideas or knows of existing content that I should be drawing on or looking at, anything along those lines, and then ideas about how to scale that basic content. It's not something I'm looking to make any money on. I'm not looking to put together a product. A lot of, of the material in this space is looking to, to profit off people who need some hope. A lot of— I've been to some, some content that targets this audience, and it's bad.

It's real—

a lot of crypto, a lot of whole life insurance policies, a lot of things that are just not industry-standard, best-practice, first-steps type of investing. I don't want to make any money on this. I want to just give back and serve that population of people. One thing that I think might be helpful for your audience, and it should Should an upper-middle-class white person care about very poor Black people beyond crime or drugs or impact? Why should they care? And I think this is important. I think we should care because the fundamental American idea is hope that we can live and strive and work together to achieve our best. And our country has never fully lived up to that, but we believe that the life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness is part of the American dream. And if there's a segment of our society that's disconnected from from that, that doesn't believe that's for them, we put the American project at risk. It's— we fail to live up to what has been given to us. We've won the lottery of human history, of billions of people who have ever lived on the planet. We are among the top 0.1% of people who have ever lived. In terms of food and wealth and peace and pleasure. And to not extend that to people who are our neighbors is— it puts, I think it puts our prosperity at risk. But if we can, if we can give everyone hope and a ladder, we'll all be richer for it. We'll be richer because they'll create value. Which is how you earn money in a business, but will also, will also create value and earn because more people having access to the best version of themselves is going to be good for all of us. And if you, if you care about crime or social outcomes, the best response to that is, is not a wall that keeps people in that., but a rope that helps get people out of that.

I got chills, Russell. That was incredibly powerful and well articulated. I think you've really summed up the, the American experiment, the American project, the American dream. Um, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you just said, and I think we need to end it there. Thank you, Russell, for coming on the show. For people who want to follow— for people who want to follow along, um Where can they keep up with what you're up to? I noticed you've been a little less active on Twitter, but is that still the best place?

Yeah, it's still the best place. You can look me up, Russell Lowery, on LinkedIn, and I'll provide that. I've been less active on Twitter, and we'll end it there. But because I've been so busy, I've taken advice from some of the people. The amount of focus that I need to have on the businesses that are on my plate in order to grow my platform, in order to do more good. I mean, it'll have financial benefits, but I needed— I, I did use and built, um, a bit— help build my business, uh, by interacting on Twitter, uh, and I just needed to give attention to, uh, primarily the procurement business that I'm building. And, and that has been— it's just taken more of my time.

Got it. So connect on LinkedIn, follow on Twitter. Thank you again, Russell. This was so fun, and, uh, just thank you for coming on the show.

Appreciate you, man.

Thank you.