Building and Maintaining Consistent Thought Leadership | Verity Craft | 471

Peter Winick.

Consistency is one of the biggest challenges in thought leadership. Okay, actually, it's also one of humanity's biggest challenges, whether we're trying to put out thought leadership on a regular basis, or convince ourselves to go to the gym for a workout. Individuals and organizations need ways to make thought leadership efforts consistent. And that's a place where I've seen people struggle again and again. In today's conversation, we speak with Verity Craft. She's the general manager and storyteller for Intelligent Ink, and she and I share a love of thought leadership processes and frameworks. She's one of my go-to intellectual sparring partners. So this time when we sat down to chat, we recorded it. I invite you to listen in as we talk about building consistency into your thought leadership work. I'm Bill Sherman, and you're listening to Leveraging Thought Leadership. Ready? Let's begin. So welcome to the show, Verity.

Thanks so much for having me, Bill.

So you and I have been talking now for several years about thought leadership, whether in the US or in New Zealand. And I think one of the things that we've seen is a lot more people have popped up their attention level to this concept of thought leadership. And there's a question behind it. Okay, I could see doing it for a while, but how do I maintain that momentum? I'm busy doing 32 other things.

Yeah, 100%. And definitely what, what you said is exactly right. Like, we've noticed a huge shift in the number of people who are wanting to build thought leadership. But I think for a lot of people, the element of it being a really long-term move and needing to keep that momentum going is quite overwhelming for them and a little bit off-putting, even though they know that they can see, you know, the impact that it would have. Figuring out how to stay consistent is a massive challenge.

Well, and the way that I sort of mentally think of it is if you want to start running, you don't do a couch to full marathon. It might be a couch to a 5K, right? Get out there, do a little bit of work, and start building up the stamina and repetition. But I think if you sort of set the goal and you're post too far out, it almost feels daunting right away.

Yeah, yeah, 100%. I often equate it to compound interest and investing, you know. It's when you're starting out investing, you don't want to invest you know, 80% of your income because that would massively change the way that you live. But if you can start by investing small amounts regularly and often, you know, eventually that builds up and you get massive results from it. And I see thought leadership in the same way. If you can start to just build that consistency and get things moving, then eventually that compound interest will build up and pay off hugely.

Well, and we're definitely off on a roll on metaphors here to continue with the metaphor equivalent on compound investing. Certainly many financial advisors say the best time to start planning for retirement is in your 20s. And I would argue that there's also an argument to starting thought leadership when you're young. But a lot of people raise their hand and go, but I'm not quite sure what I know other than what I learned in college or what I did in my first job for the first couple of years. Who's going to listen to me? Right. And so I think we often face the challenge of telling ourselves we have to know more before we can start, which then becomes a barrier to consistency, right?

Yes. Yeah, yeah, 100%. And I think that that's one of the biggest things that we hear from people when we're talking to them about building thought leadership is they go, but what if my ideas aren't good enough? Or what if I don't know enough? Or what if they're not ready? And actually, you know, I think one of the really cool things about thought leadership is that it is a bit of an experiment and you are wanting to put ideas out there and test them out. So it's okay if they're not perfect and ready. So that, that idea of just starting when you're young or when you're, you're relatively early in your career is a really good point that actually that can help you build up that momentum so that by the time you're kind of ready to really take it far, you've already built up an audience and people who are interested in your ideas.

I think one of the other hurdles, and you alluded to it in just what you said there, is the fear of thinking in public, right? And where you say, I'm not quite sure I have the answer, but here's a pattern I see, or here's a hint of an idea. Let me throw it out there and see how people respond. And a lot of people are like, no, no, no, no, it's got to be perfect and polished and everything. Before I send it out into the world.

Yeah, yeah. And that's so the case. And I think most, you know, thought leaders are smart people, right? And most smart people want to be seen as smart because that's what they've always been. And I think there's a real challenge in that with going, actually, you can't make an idea perfect if you're not willing to put it out for feedback and you're not willing to put yourself out there. But we so often hold back and don't want to put things out until we're sure that we're happy with it or proud of it. And I feel like I, you know, we certainly used to be a lot more, we were perfectionists a lot more and it held us back, I think, a huge amount in the early days, whereas now we're definitely far more on the journey of done is better than perfect. Let's get it out and test it.

Well, and it's about small experiments because I think a lot of people start thinking they need this big tentpole piece this, you know, sort of like a blockbuster movie of thought leadership where it's going to be the book or the research report or whatever that's going to stand and make their name and everyone will come to them. And really what it is, it's like you said, done is better than perfect. You've got to put 100 ideas, little ideas out there to see what, you know, gets people to pay attention.

Yeah, and you won't know until they're out there, right? Like, you can't predict you, you might understand your audience, but you can't predict what they're going to connect with until you actually put it out there and see what they're going to like. So yeah, and, and I think it's just unfortunate because, you know, the consistency in that, putting those ideas out there, it's not the exciting stuff, is it? Like, it's so much more exciting to do, you know, a big report or be out doing a huge speaking engagement or whatever it is, or put out, put out your book. Although to create your book, you need a lot of consistency. But, you know, those are the exciting things, whereas it feels as though all of the small things are maybe sometimes a little bit boring, but actually doing all of that consistently is what builds thought leadership and what gets you to the results.

It's about the willingness to be repetitive but still engaged. And I know you have a passion for theater, and that's certainly a passion for mine. And anytime you're in a theatrical run, you write both in rehearsal, then certainly in production, you've got to, once the curtain comes up, be engaged and be present as if it was the very first time you were doing the work.

Yeah, exactly. And I think theater's such a good analogy for, um, thought leadership, which you and I have talked about lots of times because we are both so passionate about it. But it's such a good analogy because when you start out creating a show, you know, you are testing out things and you're trying out things, but you're repeating them and you're doing them again and again to figure out what works. And that's how the rehearsal period works. And then once you've got it there, it's never— it, it gets to sort of a place where it's good enough to be put on, but it's never static. You're always still evolving it and making it better every night. And, you know, you see people On Broadway who will do shows for years at a time, and they still have to treat it like it's a— the first time they've ever done it, but they're also able to take all the lessons from all the times that they've done it before. And so I think much like theater, thought leadership is all about trying things out, testing things consistently, working on it, and then getting it to a stage where you're really happy with it. But there's always an element of improvement as well.

Well, and contextually, I think certainly when you're delivering thought leadership in a live environment, whether it's speaking or in a workshop, or if you're doing an executive offsite with a group, you're responding to the context of that situation. And no audience is ever 100% the same as last night's audience, right?

Yeah, 100%. And if you delivered it in the exact same way, that you had to last night's audience, it's probably not gonna connect the same way.

Yeah, and if you let it go on autopilot, if you just sort of cruise through and if you're the actor delivering your lines, the audience knows. And so one of the hurdles for consistency is can you breathe that spark of life into the idea even if you've been talking about it for 6 months, a year, 5 years or 20, right?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think it's one of those things that, you know, in an ideal world, consistency frees you up to be more creative. So if you, you know, if you've delivered something 100, 300, 500 times and you know it like the back of your hand, that's when you can play with it and bring something new to it and bring a spark to it. Whereas if you, you know, are just letting it be, well, here I'm going to deliver exactly the same thing, that's exactly what you said, you know, you don't get that spark, you don't make it interesting for people, people recognize that. And so you've got to use consistency as a base for the fun and the creativity and a little bit more experimenting to make it interesting for the people that you're engaging with.

And I think a lot of people get focused on the delivery of the idea, not the experience of the audience.

Yeah, that's such a good point. Yeah, 100%.

So as we continue sort of exploring this concept of consistency, let's talk about recruiting others, because if you're in an organization, you're going to need help. So how do you do it? Because it's really hard to carry an idea on your own. Out the world.

100%. I mean, it varies so much by organization, right? But I think there's some core things that stay the same across any organization, the first of which is getting that vision really clear. So understanding why you're doing thought leadership, why you're building it, you know, why anybody else should care. If your thought leadership is literally just about, hey, we want to look good, then probably the rest of your team are not going to get that excited. But if you can use it to go, well, here's the impact that we can have with it, and here's how we can help people, and here's how that will then help us as a business, then it has meaning for people. And so people are actually excited about it. So I feel like that's one element, but that doesn't necessarily get people to actually stay committed. You know, it might get them excited to begin with. So I think the other element of it is making sure that you've got the right people on board so that those who are contributing are contributing in a way that they can best add value and that it also works for them, right? So, you know, wherever you can, having someone, say, managing your content calendar as an example, don't put that on someone who hates doing, you know, admin and hates that kind of thing. Make sure that you've got someone who loves that kind of stuff. That way you can leverage your experts and the people who really know their stuff within the organization to just share their ideas. So have people, you know, if the people within your organization are not writers, have other people interview them and get all of the content out of them, or film it on video and get that passion, or whatever form it takes. Make sure that you're helping people play to their strengths and that there's someone kind of managing it overall so that then that way you're not expecting people to do the pieces that they're not good at.

And I think that alignment of individual to skills, individual to purpose, and even individual to their goals— one of the things as you're trying to recruit others internally within the organization is you've got to make sure that there's something in it for them, rather than, as you said, proving that either you or the organization is smart. That just doesn't fire people up to the same way.

Yeah, exactly. And that's, that's such a good point, I think, because there's one thing saying, well, here's why we're doing it as an organization, but it's entirely another thing to be able to say, well, here's why you should get involved and here's why it works for you. So it's making sure that balance is right.

So we've talked about recruiting others. Let's talk about habits and let's get really practical tips and techniques. And you and I have seen a lot of situations where it's easy to fall off of good habits on consistency and thought leadership. What do you do to stay on track? How do you keep it going? Because we all have lives and at the same time the calendar keeps moving forward.

Mm-hmm. And I would be the first to put my hand up and say I fall prey to this all the time. You know, I, without a doubt lose consistency all the time and have had to put lots of scaffolds in place to try and make sure that I actually stick to things. And same thing with the clients that we work with, you know, you, you see how easy it is to fall, fall off the wagon and, and lose those habits. So I think that the— there's a few different things that we've found have worked really well for our clients and also for ourselves, one of which is creating some sort of accountability or community within it. So if you know that you are someone who will push your thought leadership till after any client work or delivery work or whatever it is that your role is, then actually setting aside, not just setting aside time for it, but setting aside time when you're going to work on it with somebody else is massively powerful. Even if that's literally just sitting on Zoom with mute on while you both work on it.

Well, and that's something that you actually do as a team, right?

Yeah, yeah, yep. So we do this now because we would push all of our own work, our own thought leadership till after all of our client work. We started doing that. And so we now, yeah, just 2 weeks ago we sat on a session for 3 hours and we all worked on our own different pieces of content or different frameworks that we were working on. And basically at the start of it said, this is what we're going to do. At the end, we said, cool, have we done it? What's left? Okay, there's only that piece left. Cool. When are you going to do that by? And created some accountability around it. So that's definitely, for us, made a huge difference. And I kind of equate it to having a personal trainer. Because for me, I never went to the gym when I signed up to the gym, and I would have all these great plans to exercise and do all of this, but it wasn't until I got a personal trainer that I actually gained some consistency in my exercise. And it wasn't because she particularly pushed me harder, or pushes me harder than I push myself. Like, if I'm exercising, I'll push myself, that's fine. It's that because she's there, we've got an appointment, I'll be letting her down if I don't show up, I show up every single time.. And so I, I think that in terms of thought leadership, you know, we're not solo creatures as humans. We like connection and we like to be involved with other people. So building some sort of community or accountability around it is a really powerful thing.

And whether it's a smaller organization from a boutique consultancy all the way to a Fortune 500, that need for collaboration and someone else who understands what you're doing, staring at stickies on the wall or trying to figure out a problem of how do I communicate this idea? So that— because it's easy to feel, hey, I'm in the bubble, I'm the only one who's doing this, and then you feel alone, right? And the weight of sort of the work settles on your shoulders. I like this idea of even if it's just quietly working beside each other, the accountability piece of 'Hey, we're all pushing the ball forward' really works.

Especially I think in a, you know, with so many of us working from home now, you know, back in the day you would sit next to somebody in the office and you'd kind of have that, you'd say, 'Oh, I'm working on this.' So it's sort of creating that feeling. And actually just today someone introduced me to something called Focusmate, which is basically where you can do that with someone virtually across the world. You can sit in a session, you start out saying what you're gonna do and then you come together at the end and say, cool, I achieved this, or, or not. So there's lots of ways you can do it, but I think it's a really important piece to just keep yourself engaged with it and not get distracted by the many distractions that we all have in our lives and work.

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Yeah. Another one that's worked really well for us and for clients is around leverage, which you guys obviously talk about a lot, which is basically having a process or a system around everything that you create so that you can use it in many different ways, many different times. You know, you and I both know that you can't just get a message across to people by sharing it once. That's not going to do anything for them. You have to consistently share the same message. Which can feel a little bit boring if you're writing about it or you're talking about it for the 100th, 200th time. So leveraging what you're creating, I think, is hugely important. Whether that's having a process whereby if you create, say, a new keynote that then gets broken down into blog posts and social posts or whatever they are, or if you create a workshop or something online, for example, that could get broken down into pieces. So for us, when we write a blog, the blog then becomes a carousel, it then becomes social posts, it then becomes an email, and we're not necessarily— the person who's writing it doesn't have to do all of those pieces, you know, you can leverage, use other people to break down that content. So that would be a real, a really good habit to get into. Same thing with if you've written a book, for example, or if you've got a report or created a, you know, a research report, for example. That has a lot of stuff that can be used in many different ways. And the person who created it doesn't necessarily have to create everything from it, but you'll get a hell of a lot more mileage and make it easier for that consistency if you then every time you create something, it gets broken down into multiple pieces.

The other thing that I would say coming out of that is you have to figure out which entry points are the most effective. And a great way to try that— and I know you and I both spend a lot of time on LinkedIn— in terms of repurposing, even if you're repurposing an article or a piece that you've written, you may play with the first couple lines of the post because you only see that ransom note, 2 or 3 lines at the beginning before the dreaded See More button. And everybody's scrolling through their feed trying to figure out, is this interesting? Does it relate to me? Should I click See More, right? And we're making that decision in a fraction of a second. And you have to figure out for your audience and the target that you're trying to reach what's going to get them to click See More. And it's really, really unlikely that you will accomplish that first time out of the gate. Right?

Yeah, yeah, 100%. And I think the other element of that is, you know, what format is it in? So you and I both probably tend towards more written content because that's where we naturally kind of sit. But you can use the same post as you could film a video, or you could start with video if you're not a writer, you know, start by interviewing someone or talking to camera or whatever kind of content you want to create that you're comfy with, and then get somebody else to turn that into LinkedIn posts or whatever it is that you need and test out some of those hooks as well.

So I had a conversation earlier today with someone specifically about getting over that hurdle and starting with video, right? And she said, I know you've been telling me to start this since December of 2021. And she's like, I'm sitting here feeling almost this twinge of guilt that you've reminded me of a good idea yet again, right? And I think we have, and you talked about it, default methods that we're all comfortable with, right? Some of us are happy on camera, some of us are happy on stage, some are happy writing, and then we have to consciously step into our area of discomfort to try different modalities. Because really, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter where you're in your happy place creating, It's where your audience is looking for content. And so, yeah, I mean, what was it, 2 and a half, almost 3 years ago now when starting on the podcasting and joining Peter Winick in this podcast, it was a new set of skills that I had to develop, right? But first few times out, you realize, oh yeah, this isn't that hard. I know how to do this.

Yeah, exactly. And nearly everything that thought leadership encompasses are skills that we all have. In different areas. You know, everybody is capable of talking about what they love because if you have a conversation with someone, they'll talk your ear off about something that they're passionate about. Everyone is capable of writing, you know, to different levels obviously, but we all write emails every day and we all, you know, we all communicate in different ways. And so it's just about— I really like your model that you talk about where if you start out by testing a new idea that you're uncomfortable with, in an area that you're in, a format or modality that you're comfortable in, that's a really good way to do it. But when you're comfortable with the idea, that's when you can start to push out into some of those modalities that you're uncomfortable with.

Exactly. Because if you're trying to test a new idea in a modality you're not comfortable with, you're on shaky ground on both sides. So you've got to pick, are you going to be comfortable with the modality? And try out a new idea or be comfortable with the idea and try a new modality.

Yeah, exactly. And so I think that's a really good way to approach it is to constantly look at ways that you can push yourself out of your comfort zone, but when you're comfy with the ideas, and that's where that leverage piece comes in as well, I think, because you can use that leverage piece to break down the content that you've created or turn it into different things, test it out in lots of different ways. And then when you're really comfy with it and you know that it's as strong as possible, that's when you could start to potentially push that into other modalities.

So I wanna ask you a couple questions that move away from the concept of consistency in putting out content more towards your journey into thought leadership. And then I know you and I have had conversations around sort of how the community and culture in New Zealand has responded to the concept of thought leadership and you've watched that and we've talked about sort of the light bulb coming on both literally and metaphorically. So my first question is to you, how'd you stumble into the world of thought leadership?

Yeah, I love that your question is stumble into because I think that seems to be the case for virtually everyone.

Almost all of us.

Yes, yes, it's a stumble. So we started out, Christina Wedgwood, who my business partner started Intelligent Ink, she started the business as purely a content creation copywriting agency. It went into PR. I started working with her, and then we discovered we were really complementary in lots of ways. And over the years, we kind of said yes to a lot of things, and we tried out a lot of things, as you do, which is 9 times out of 10 the wrong way to go about it, saying yes to everything. But I think that most people in business do that. And so we had lots of years of trying everything out in terms of content and working with people. And what we realized over time, we got rid of the PR side, we got rid of virtually anything that looked a little bit too much like marketing and, and that side of things. And what we realized that was that it wasn't the content that we were really passionate about, it was the ideas behind them. And it was the fact that we could work with really smart, passionate people and help them make their thinking better, which then just happened to be shared via content. And so that was kind of how we sort of stumbled into thought leadership and then found the term for it, which I think is also the case for a lot of people. And so for the last— yeah, yeah, definitely me.

Yeah.

So I think for the last probably 6 or 7 years, it's been a real journey of discovering what thought leadership was, discovering what our piece of that was and where we could add most value, and then really coming to look at, okay, well, you know, if, if we know that thought leadership is a thing and we know that it's a valuable thing, how can we be support clients to do it? And so now we're on a much more of a— we still create some content for some clients, but a lot of our clients, we don't create the content for them. We work with them on, on purely a developing their positioning, helping them work through their ideas, making sure that they're getting their ideas out there, and really acting as more coaches and advisors than as just content creators. So that's been a really cool journey, and I think one that is particularly— I'm really pleased that we've been on that, particularly coming into an era where content is easier to create than ever. You know, there's so many tools ChatGPT, things like that, that are actually, you know, I don't think that they'll replace content creators, but they'll certainly change the way that it works. And so the fact that our focus now is on how do we help people evolve their thinking and make their ideas as strong as possible, I'm really grateful that we've kind of already been on that journey and we're, yeah, we're on that path already.

And you allude to the challenges and also the benefits of AI for content generation, right? And we've seen some of those things in the news as we were recording where even the current cutting-edge systems by Microsoft and Google and ChatGPT, all of them are either struggling with things or confidently proclaiming information that may or may not be accurate, right? And so there's a validity question, and there's also then how do you create new knowledge when it's a synthesis of what has been said before on the internet, right? Now, you could argue that some of thought leadership, there's an echo to the past and there always is. You build on the past. But if you're advancing the conversation, you gotta advance it.

Yeah. And that's exactly how I see it is, you know, those things, all the AI and everything, they're tools and they can be used really effectively, but they can't replace thought leadership because what thought leadership is, is its creativity and its innovation and its experience meets, you know, possibilities. So it's all of those things, and those are the things that are so unique to humans that I think we can see them as tools to be used, but they're certainly not gonna come through and replace the role of thought leaders and experts in the field.

Absolutely. So as we begin to wrap up, I have one question that I want to ask you, which is my standard closing question. Given where you are now, what advice would you give a younger Verity going into the world of thought leadership?

Um, I would probably tell myself to— oh, that's a really good question. I would probably tell myself to learn more but share more often. So I think when I was younger, I definitely had a feeling that I needed to know the answers, um, if I wanted to be respected. You know, we, we both pretty young starting out in this, and it was definitely a feel of 'Oh, well, they're not going to trust me because I'm, I'm young.' Um, and so I think I would occasionally overcompensate with pretending that I knew things that I didn't and then trying to figure them out later. Whereas what I've learned getting older is that actually being open about what I don't know is one of the most powerful things that I can do, both with clients, you know, because actually if I don't know something, their audience possibly doesn't know it as well, and that's a really powerful way to test out what they're talking about. But also with our audience, you know, showing some vulnerability and being upfront about what I don't know or what I'm not doing well has been incredibly powerful because I get so much more knowledge from other people and glean so much wisdom from other people.

I think a lot of people who haven't been in the field of thought leadership or haven't been for long, expect that you have to be the smartest person in the room. And I would flip that and I'd say it's often being the most curious person in the room and asking good questions.

Yeah, 100%. I think good questions are the cornerstone of every thought leader's toolkit. If you can ask good questions, you will be able to build thought leadership.

And it takes such— and I'm just riffing here with you— but it takes such a load off. And I, I remember that sort of desire to prove yourself by proving you were smart. Once you can let go and exhale from that and go, yeah, I'm never gonna know everything, I'm not even gonna know a lot about most things, so I'm here to learn.

Yeah, exactly. And, and that's definitely the case of, I think, the best thought leaders in the world are the ones who still seek out opportunities to learn and get really excited about talking to other thought leaders or to other, you know, people who have expertise or wisdom because that strengthens their own ideas as well and helps them think of things in new ways and find new perspectives.

All right, Verity, we could continue this conversation for a long time, and you and I are very much kindred spirits in trying to figure out how thought leadership works and frameworks and models. But I want to thank you for joining me today. This has been a delightful conversation.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled that we could have this chat.

Oh, absolutely. And we'll talk more soon.

Awesome. Thanks, Bill.

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