Building Capabilities for Change Management | Tim Creasey | 508

And welcome, welcome, welcome. This is Peter Winick. I'm the founder and CEO at Thought Leadership Leverage, and you're joining us on the podcast today, which is Leveraging Thought Leadership. Today, my guest is Tim Creasey. He is amongst other things, the Chief Innovation Officer of Prosci. He's a speaker, he's an author, and he's kind of an all-around thought leader, which is why we've got him on today. So welcome aboard, Tim. How are you?

Doing very well. Thank you. Thanks for having me on, Peter. Yeah.

So tell me, I mean, you're in an interesting spot and you've got a quote, day job, and then you're also a thought leader. They are not mutually exclusive and it doesn't always need to be the title that is on your business card, but give us a sense of sort of what the thought leadership is and how it applies both on the job and in the other things that you do.

Yeah, very nice. And I'm going to have to lay the backdrop of Prosci, right? Because I'm certainly a thought leader at Prosci. Prosci is an organization dedicated to help individuals and organizations build their own capabilities in change management. How do you— when you invest time and energy in a change, how do you make sure that you prepare, equip, and support your people so that they are successful in that change journey so the change delivers outcomes, right? We are founded by an insatiably curious engineer that laid research down as the bedrock. He realized he was trying to figure out why are some projects successful and others not. And he realized, if I ask one person, I get a story. If I ask 10 people, I might start to see some patterns. If I can ask a couple hundred people what to do to deliver better outcomes, I can really start to establish this foundation. So I was thinking about this notion of thought leadership, and really where it starts for us is pattern identification and recognition, right? It's not like that inspiration, like, you know, a star falls out of the sky and boom, there is the thought leadership. It's a lot of hard work asking really thoughtful questions about why some projects succeed, why others don't, and discerning the patterns that other people can act on in the work that they do. And so, interesting, right? When you think about thought leadership, where does the thought come from? First, it comes from research on how to impact more successful change. And then I think leaning into the thought leadership piece is how do you bring that to life for different audiences, right? I'm not sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I think a lot of people with struggle, struggle with that from the perspective of we all have our own preferences. Right. And I think we all think that our preferences are the only preference. So if I like to read long form, obviously everybody else must read the same amount of books that I do. If I like to watch video, then why would everybody else not like to watch video? And I think what you need to be cognizant of is Who is your audience with a high level of specificity? How do they actually prefer to consume content? And if it's not in the way that you prefer to create it, you've got a problem and the burden on you to close their gap. They're not, you're not gonna tell a Gen Z that loves to pull down videos like, hey, that's good kid, but start reading. Like, that's just not gonna work. So tell us about—

You have, yeah. Well, you have different audiences based on consumption, right? Their preferences on consuming the thoughts that are getting led. I'm also stepping in front of a lot of different audiences in terms of how well do they understand change management, preparing, equipping, and supporting people through change. And I'll sometimes do a straw man poll, right? On a scale of 0 to 5, how well could you define change management? 5 is I could teach it and write a book on it. You know, a 0 is do you mean a coin purse? Change management coin purse. And what I've really enjoyed over the last couple of years is taking the message of change management in front of folks that don't do this as a day job, but every single day experience the challenge of change and the ability to deliver more successful change with and through their people if they can really start to figure that out. So I'll give you an example.

Take that back to the modalities though, right? So, how do you give— the right dosage and the right modality to those folks so that they can internalize and do something with it?

Yeah, I guess one of the things I do is I make sure to set a contextual anchor for whatever audience I'm engaging, which is something that they care about, a change they actually care about. So I'll give you an example. Uh, think about a change in your organization you're working to try to bring to life, and you've had some challenges with it. Like, there's been some resistance to this change that you're working to bring about, you know. For any number of reasons. Now, anything I start to talk with you about, share with you in terms of the research, ask you questions about, you're going to start to wrap it into that change experience you're going through right now. And so whether it's a video— so we have e-learning as a modality— that e-learning has you identify a change you're working on and build out a case for that change as you learn about the sequence of successful change. When we go into podcasts, we— it was really interesting over the last couple of years, right? We're taking the change management conversation to innovation stages or design stages, HR stages, leadership stages, loads of project management stages. Because this is the interesting thing, that human being is the universal common denominator of organizations and of successful change. So it's really about starting to do some remixing, right? The notion of remix, right? Because I think In business, when we think about thought leadership, there's an interesting draw towards novelty. Mm-hmm. Where I think there's actually a lot of power in taking something that's really universal in truth and making it accessible to a lot of folks who can use it to be more successful themselves and to help the people around them be more successful, right? So the idea of there's a technical side and a people side of every change. Kind of like a coin. The technical side, we design, develop, deliver. The people side, we help our people engage, adopt, and use. Like, once we get that frame, we can scale it. And that's where thought leadership comes from, right? I can scale that into a complex methodology powered by assessments and tools. But I can also take that on stage and deliver as a keynote or turn it out as a 15-minute video, or maybe even a 30-second You know, the power of questions. I've got—

could you give an example of the first time you experimented or explored with a new modality and how you go from sort of that beginner's mindset to working out the kinks to get some comfort level? Because like, for example, you know, I've worked with lots and lots of different folks and they're like, they love podcasts or they hate podcasts, or people have a mental block with, oh my God, I hate my voice. I don't want to do it. Like, it doesn't need to make any sense, but if you haven't done something and then you've tried it, what that experience has been like then.

Like, podcasting, I think, was an interesting one because you realize it's the host's show that you're a guest on, right? So each show has its own personality and direction and audience, obviously. And so to me, when I leaned into that for the first time, it was really around listening to the shows, reading the reviews, understanding what the hosts aha was that they were trying to spark for other folks. Most recently, I'll tell you when I was just starting to tinker with, and you can tell me if this is aligned, animated GIFs. Yeah. I figured out how to use PowerPoint to make animated GIFs. Oh, I love that. So they're like really quick little video explainer videos, but the one I put up recently, so we, again, exploring the notion of the future of work. I had a group of senior leaders, about 170, and a group of about 250 change agents from the same organization, two different webinars. And I asked each of them the question, what is the purpose of the office as we step back into this hybrid space, this new re, you know, hybrid, reimagined workplace? And so I got really good lists from each of them. I got a top 10 list from a senior leader's perspective, top 10 list from change agent perspective. I turned it into an animated GIF where I started to draw the lines so you could see the connections, where there was alignment, where there was leaders saying, you know, this is a priority for us of the workplace that it didn't really show up on the change agent radar. And what else the change agents identified as key roles, purposes of the office that maybe leaders didn't. So that animated GIF turns into about a 10-second explainer of fascinating data that we're collecting kind of real time. So—

Love it. Love it. If you're enjoying this episode of Thought Leadership Leverage, please make sure to subscribe. If you'd like to help spread the word about our podcast, please leave a 5-star review at ratethispodcast.com/LTL. And share it with your friends. We're available on Apple Podcasts and on all major listening apps, as well as at thoughtleadershipleverage.com/podcast. Talk a little bit about— you sort of straddle two worlds, right? Again, going back to this sort of day job and the thought leadership piece, how is it that you're the embedded thought leader or an embedded thought leader at Prosci? And then what are the things that are sort of outside those parameters that you do as well?

So, you know, as an embedded thought leader at Prosci, I lead Chief Innovation Officer and the sponsor of our research and analytics center of acceleration. It's really how we're bringing this notion and not just research. I think when we think research, we have something pop into our head like a microscope or a chart. But we really talk about the research process as picking the topic we want to make more sense of, formulating really thoughtful questions, because there is an art of asking nuanced questions that are going to yield the insights we want, collecting the data, analyzing and synthesizing it, and producing it in a way that makes it actionable and accessible. So as part of that COA, we're bringing that to life across different horizons of the organization. So that's kind of some of that internal. From, you know, I also straddle this notion of staying connected, a thought leader in the discipline of change management, while also being a business leader inside.

Yeah. So tell me about that.

Yeah.

So for example, oh my gosh, I'm actually going to pull up a snippet I have right now. We just completed our 12th Best Practices in Change Management Benchmarking Report. Very first one happened in '98. So 25 years ago. We've been doing, doing research on what people— what to do right, what to avoid doing wrong to drive better outcomes through our people. At the end of this last one, we just asked people, what are the areas of research— what would you like more research on to help you unlock the challenges you have in front of you?

Okay.

The top answers came back: change management practices and resources, KPIs and the ROI of change management, The impact of the pandemic on organizations and change, career progression of change practitioners, how to influence top leaders for change management, stakeholder and culture mapping, AI and process creation and adoption assignment, managing change impacts in public spheres, industry-specific change challenges, and dealing with complexity and change leadership behaviors. So that comes in from the research side. We hear this is what the practitioners This is what's on their radar in terms of what I can do better to drive more successful change tomorrow. And then that feeds into the business itself, our next research priorities, our development priorities, where are we going to build product, where are we going to write articles, where are we going to do webinars. So by staying really attuned to what practitioners are looking to unlock, it helps inform where we start to step, at least that practitioner side of the business.

Got it. Are there places where you've got to be explicit around what hat you're wearing? Speaking as a thought leader, I'm speaking on behalf of, or hey, this is what little old Tim thinks.

Oh yeah, absolutely. And sometimes we'll even like pantomime changing hats. Yeah, right. I'm gonna put— take off my Prosci hat and put on my Tim hat real quick because those perspectives do vary. Based on just the filters that necessarily or might necessarily need to be there. But it's interesting, the more we align to where practitioners are heading, what they're concerned about, we certainly see tremendous overlap there.

Love it, love it.

I got like— and a lot of it, there's, uh, you know, the notion of duetting. You have these famous albums, right, where somebody comes out and does a whole album of duets with another famous musician. Sometimes we'll have Tim, the thought leader in the social space, duetting with the pro-sci social space as well, right? Like where we can both elevate and talk about different perspectives on, on research or on a particular challenge that practitioners are experiencing.

Got it. And any places where that has been difficult to navigate, or if you had to do it again, you might have done it different than you did it the first time? Or how does that— do you have some general rules that you go by?

You know, hindsight's 20/20. We're doing a lot of work on getting real clear around roles, responsibilities, expectations across. So I think we're doing some real nice clarification on where— what is innovation work? What's thought leadership work? What's research work? What's product development work? Where's the voice of the customer? How does that become centered to all of that, the voice of the practitioner we serve? The voice of the organization looking to build change muscle and how can we kind of orient all around that. I think pace is an interesting one, right? Depending on scale and how, how things ripple through, through those systems. We're doing some really neat work on building in a more, an activated listening engine at the front of the innovation process to really make sure we're bringing those voices all together. So it's innovation becomes a catalyst for the direction and strategy of the organization.

Got it. Cool. Any talk for a moment on thoughts that you would have to somebody that is embedded in an organization or the, you know, the sort of the internal thought leader like you are, challenges they face, how to navigate things, anything to share there? Because I think that's a place that— struggle's not the right word, but it's, it's kind of new territory for many.

It can be a challenge, right? The tension that one can step into. Maybe I'll drop this and we can kind of tease this out a little bit. I put a post a year, a couple years back about, you know, the difference between imagination and innovation are constraints, right? And for the innovator, in a really beautiful, fun way, right? The constraints give us the canvas onto which we get to create the art of the innovation, whereas imagination's just floating around. Wouldn't it be cool if, wouldn't it be cool if, wouldn't it be cool if. As soon as that has constraints, it gets really fun and interesting to action on. I think the notion of being an internal thought leader, we just, from an innovator perspective, we just treat that as rumble strips and guardrails that help us aim our innovation in a particular direction that, you know, if we are a single shingle, the only person, you know, writing, doing all the work, we don't have those rumble strips and guidelines, those constraints, but those also help, I think, create some of the fun playground of innovation.

Interesting. Interesting. So anything else that you want to share in terms of maybe mindsets of a successful thought leader? Because I like the constraint piece. That's really a mindset because it's a little bit counterintuitive.

Yeah. Yeah. I think one that I'm tried, and again, always room to do better. Is, uh, being cognizant of what I leave in my wake based on what I said.

Intentional or unintentional, right?

Right, exactly. And just being way more tuned, paying attention to it. What I say yes to and what I say no to can create wakes that I need to be attentive to. John Green has a great podcast about it. It was called— I think it was called John Green Wants You to Pay Attention to What You're Paying Attention to. And so I think as an internal thought leader, the notion of being really thoughtful and intentional about what I'm paying my intent to is an important piece. One other mindset, and this is if I ever get over my fear of needles, this will be a tattoo I get. This is my third one. The third tattoo I'll get if I ever get over that fear of needles. Uh, it's the phrase "ancora imparo." Okay. Ancora imparo. It's allegedly Michelangelo's final words and translated to English, it means "yet I am still learning." Right. Do you think about it? Here's one of the smartest beings on the planet on his way out declaring, "Yet I am still learning." Love it. And so I'm thinking, you know, if that's the mindset he can take, that's really what got me through 2020, right? As we pivoted, we were a wholly in-person business that had never delivered virtual training on March 10th, 2020. And on March 17th, 2020, we delivered our very first 3-day fully immersive fully virtual program.

Right. And if in 2019, somebody said, in a week, we're going to do this. No, we need to cook for 18 months. We got to— you'd probably still be in beta 3 or something, right?

Exactly. He's trying to come up with 30 different reasons why it wouldn't work.

Yeah.

And then we all just made it happen. And so I think there's some fascinating learnings in terms of the new capabilities, new expectations that organizations and individuals grew over the last experience that we went through together. So Ancora, Amparo, yeah, pivot around purpose. To what end? To what end is a phrase that my team hears all the time.

Yeah.

To what end? What are we anchoring? What's the flag on the horizon? Because empowering a team without alignment of what success is, that goal, the flag on the horizon, that amplifies the chaos. And so I guess as an internal thought leader, getting clear and crisp at articulating what that flag on the horizon is. Is kind of one of those roles.

Awesome. Awesome. Well, this has been great. I appreciate your time. I appreciate your transparency and, and you're sharing with us your journey. Thank you so much, Tim.

Yeah, thank you very much, Peter. I really appreciate it.

To learn more about Thought Leadership Leverage, please visit our website at thoughtleadershipleverage.com. To reach me directly, feel free to email me at peter@thoughtleadershipleverage.com. And please subscribe to Leveraging Thought Leadership on iTunes or your favorite podcast app to get your weekly episode automatically.