Lead From Within: The Operating System of High-Performing Leaders | 689 | Nina Urman

And welcome, welcome, welcome. This is Peter Winick. I'm the founder and CEO at Thought Leadership Leverage, and you're joining us on the podcast, which is Leveraging Thought Leadership. Today, my guest is Nina Ehrmann, and I wanna give you just a little bit of her background. She's a mother of 7. That's an accomplishment in and of itself. A former professional tennis player. And financial strategist, and she has coached over 200 executives, CEOs, and leadership teams across 30 countries into her program and has, uh, a book out and all sorts of interesting things going on. So her and I first met about a week or two ago, and I was really intrigued by her story and wanted to invite her on to share some of it. So, uh, one of my favorite questions, Nina, thanks, thanks for coming on, by the way.

Thank you so much, Peter, for having me. I'm excited to be here.

So this is one of my favorite questions, and because I, I kind of know the answer, this is kind of a fun one for me, is like, how, how did you get here? Like this, this wasn't the grand plan of here's how I will be in 2025 as a thought leader, but give us the brief journey, 'cause I think it's a, it's, it's been a cool one. Yeah.

So I'm originally half Russian, half German. I was born in Siberia of all places, and no, it doesn't always snow in Siberia. I moved to Germany when I was 9 years old. My grandmother from my dad's side was German and sent to Siberia. So that's how I kind of came to Germany, 9 years old, started playing tennis right then. My dad gave me the tennis racket and kind of said, you're gonna be a professional tennis player. So I became it fairly quickly. I was good quickly. I was a high performer, always very competitive. And so at the age of 15, I left to the US to play at the Bollettieri Tennis Academy. No more school, just tennis. The reason why I'm telling all this is because it's kind of the prehistory to what I do today, because today I coach high performers, I coach corporate leaders and athletes, so to say. And yeah, it really built my strength and built my resilience. It, I didn't become, you know, the number one in the world because I had all of these injuries, but it opened up kind of a door to personal development, to understanding my mindset. So.

Right. So then you bring, right. So, so You know, tennis has a shelf life, right? So even if you had become number one, you know, there's a shelf life, but there's some, some principles and some ideas and such that you took from that and then moved it into what you're doing now. So talk to me about sort of what, what you brought with you into your current practice and how you apply it to the, the folks that you work with.

Yeah, so I think one of the principles that I talk about all the time, and that's also the name of my book, is Lead from Within. And I think tennis, you know, really taught me that it's all, I mean, in your mind, we speak about mindset a lot, but it also is a heart set, right? Defining what is it that you want and what are you saying yes to and what are you saying no to? So a lot of these concepts come back in leadership teams and they come back in the ecosystem of internal leadership, like what's going inside. Also in family leadership, which I'm very passionate about. Because leadership in general is not just one thing, right? It's like, it's a holistic ecosystem. Another principle I speak about a lot is failing forward, right? Like nobody likes to fail, but actually all the people I speak about, you know, that have gotten really successful, they tell me, you know, it's through failure that I grew. It's through failure, it's through that, you know, kind of hitting, hitting it to top bottom that I actually learned what I'm capable of. So that's another one I, I really love. And then maybe the principle of, um, you know, co-creating reality or creating it from the future, like, you know, connecting to the future self and then reverse engineering.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So let me ask you this. So, so these are things that have obviously been polished. They, they've evolved, they've been refined, they've been tried and tested. How did you, what was the epiphany that said, okay, I'm done with my tennis career, right? And this will be the next thing. How did this, how, how did that happen? 'Cause it doesn't seem like the day after you put down your racket, you'd put up a little poster and say, we'll coach CEOs. Like probably that's—

Yes. No, no, that journey was, I mean, first of all, I was very lost, right? I was kind of, okay, like I was trained to do this and now I can't do this anymore. I've had to go back to school. Back to figuring out what is it that I wanna study. And that's where I was like, okay, I've studied lots of like kind of soft skills before. I studied first communication and psychology, and then I really wanted to do finance and do some hard stuff. And I met my husband at the end of my master's degree. I studied one year in Paris, one year in Moscow. And I was like, okay, what am I gonna do now? I became stepmom to 4 children at the age of 25. And it was kind of like this reinvention moment. And somebody in my environment, it was a good friend of my husband who said, why don't you get a coach? And it was like, what do you mean? Like, I've had coaches all my life. I don't want, like, the last thing I want is a coach. And he says, no, no, no, no. Like for your life to figure out your thoughts and what you wanna do with your potential. And you know, we have so much to offer. And that's when I became interested in, like more interested in personal development. I was always interested in You know, how does the human mind work? But always high performance. There it was more like, okay, maybe I can do something, you know, beyond the—

so now, so I want, I wanna pivot for a moment to, that's how we got here and what the intellectual property and what your thought leadership is. Now let's talk about the business side of that.

Yeah.

Right. So tell me about how, how your work comes to be and, and the types of folks that you're working with and what an engagement looks like. And maybe some of the challenges and things that you've learned sort of on the court of business, if you will, to, to be, yeah, well, as you have been in this arena.

Totally. So once I then started my business, and first I was coaching one-on-one, um, you know, and then kind of worked myself to towards groups. And today I work a lot with retreats and it's mostly CEOs, executives, you know, family businesses, entrepreneurs, hired guns that run their, their businesses and it's almost like, okay, the topics that come up are a lot about time and energy management. It's a lot about emotional mastery. Those are the things that I, so to say, teach, but it's always in groups and there's a lot of transfer of knowledge, a lot of shared experiences. I work a lot with forums. I know you're familiar with YPO, the Young Presidents Organization, you know, it's 40,000 CEOs around the world and A lot of my work is either with these type of groups or then within companies or then within their families. So I kind of—

stay there a little bit more. Take it, take it sort of one level of, of how, yeah, a little more granular in terms of you're, you're tapping into the YPO network 'cause you've identified, and I'm paraphrasing and push back if I'm not getting it right, that that's an avatar, right? Like members of YPO, Young Presidents Organization. Right. Are leading organizations in such and such a time, have teams and could benefit from this partly because there's a little bit of a flywheel effect. The more that you work with a population, the more in demand you become to say, I've worked with 20 other YPO members or whatever. So I would think that you tap into the YPO network and it could be Vistage or EO, or there's a million other organizations.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Like all of these also, I facilitated with it. YPO is just the biggest one. How did that hap— well, I mean, it happened very organically because my husband became a member more than 15 years ago. So I kind of was like looking on the outside, like inside and outside, because once you get a membership of YPO, like the whole family just integrates and I just became a champion, the leader. So in the beginning I gave a lot of my time and energy to just be, to give. And then at one point I was like, okay, I'm gonna I start building these forums and these groups and I'm really good at it. And, you know, I today I do like almost 50 retreats a year. So, which is, which is a lot.

I told you that this is probably, yeah, no, 50 retreats a year is sort of capped. But I, but I, but I, I, I wanna push on. So one of the things you said, you know, your, your husband was a member. Part of the, the ethos of YPO is it's about, it's not just about the business, it's about the person and therefore about the family. So you fit. Part of that pro profile. You can sit there and say, I know what it's like to be married to a member of YPO. I know the challenges that he brings home from a tough day as developers. I know the impact that a stressful quarter has on our relationship and our relationship with our children and all that. So there's a signaling of, I, you know, I see you because I'm kind of one of you. I am one of you, right?

100%. Like, they totally relate to me and how I see the world and, and, and they, they, like, I get them, they get me. And so it's, is there's a trust factor, right? Like we know that in coaching to change anything, it's, it's always about the connection you have with other people. So for me, the most important thing, what I'm doing today, I would say like I'm building safe spaces for people just to be themselves.

Right. So I wanna go back to, you know, and I, this, this kind of blew me away when we were talking earlier to, uh, earlier last week or week before, whatever it was, when you said Oh, and I do 50 retreats a year and I'm like, holy cow, that's 100 plane rides or train rides or, you know, whatever. Each one requires not just the onsite facilitation, but, but, you know, the, these things are bespoke, right? Like you've got a set of principles, but they're not, this is not like the job of a keynoter where you get up there, you do your thing for 45 minutes. Facilitation is hard. You have to understand their context, their, their challenges, their, their struggles and all that. You gotta travel there, you gotta prep for there and all that. And, and you and I talk about, so you have a practice and your practice is maxed out. So now growth is a function of, well, they're not gonna have a year with 60 weeks, right? There's only so many, we have, we, we have leap year, but you know, there's only so many weeks in a year. Right. Ultimately you could, you could increase your pricing, but the market's gonna cap you at that. How are you starting to think about your own business and say, I have to move from a practice to a business that's more scalable? Or are you having, considering that and thinking about that?

Yes, I'm like very much considering it. And I noticed one of the things that I'm trying to, to figure out is like, what is my frame, right? What is it that I really want to do? And then what's my floor? What am I saying yes to? What am I saying no to? And I've started already, like, you know, I'm saying no to one-on-one coaching and more and more I'm saying no to retreats because I do want to focus on this family component because I think this is where I can bring the most value and where I'm most passionate about at the moment. So it's bringing all the forum principles that I do with executives into families and still families of entrepreneurs and CEOs, et cetera. But really tapping into that. I don't think many people do that. It's, it's like, this is like—

well, stay, stay there a second.

Be—

because I think that, and, or what I, I should say, what I've observed is that thought leaders are really passionate and they love what they do and there's an intrinsic motivation, not that there's not extrinsic and financial rewards, but in general, they're really bad at saying no. Right? So somebody comes to them with something else, even though they have their vision and their plan, they think, well, that's interesting. Yeah, I would like to do that. Or could I do that? Or whatever. But I love the fact that you've got the discipline, and maybe this comes from your, your athletic days or whatever, of knowing what to say no to. I think that's a big thing and sounds like it took you a while to sort of have that. Realism.

Yes. In the beginning, I was saying yes to everything, but I think there's seasons and stages in life. I think when, when you, you know, growing and understanding, you're just learning and absorbing, it's great to say yes because you're just learning and, and, and expanding your horizons. But I'm at a stage right now where I'm okay. Like, it's almost like, okay, been there, done that. Like, I've done this thing and I've proven it to myself and other people that I could do it. And now I'm at a stage Okay, where am I the most impactful and how can I scale? Because I do believe that I can reach, you know, like hundreds and thousands of families if I do this right. And if, in fact, I built like a, like a board game for families to play with, which I call a Family Circle in a Box. And this allows me then to take myself out of the equation, so to say, and Or put myself in every box, maybe with AI or digital tools that, you know, I'm so—

well, but taking yourself out, I think there's, there's two reactions that thought leaders have to that concept. One is utter fear. Oh my God, I'm like, without me there's no there there, right? Like it's all about me, right? Like, oh my God, it's my identity, it's all I do. And then others are like, you know what, it's time to make me irrelevant or less relevant or make the, the, the business less dependent on, I, you know, if every, if every proposal that you write starts with a Nina Will, you don't have a business, you have a practice, right? And now I think you're at a point where you've developed the frameworks, the models, the methodologies. Yes, it's great that you can deliver it, but that's not the exclusive way that people can experience and benefit from your intellectual property.

That's like, yeah, I think it's about them now, right? It's like, it's more like, okay, this is me, my energy, my products, my frameworks. But now it's like, how can I make this work so like the families can moderate themselves or with guidance and with, you know, digital products that will help them with the game? I'm thinking that at one point, like I am at that stage where basically I'm doing, okay, this is my frame, then what's my floor? Everything beyond the floor is a no. And then what's the focus? And the focus has to be more than just Nina.

For sure.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And how are you finding the market receiving that? Because I think part of it is you get a reputation and a brand of everybody talks about you, right? Like, oh my God, she did this retreat for us and it was great and you should bring her in. Like if there's the referral piece of it. Yeah. And now if somebody comes into you as a, as a client that was referred to somebody that experienced you say 3 or 4 years ago, and you're telling that person, it's not about me. I have this suite of tools and offerings and solutions and whatever. That's part of the mix, are they taken aback by that or how do you find they're reacting to that or you manage that transition for them?

Yeah, I think it's, it's a, it's, it's happening kind of organically, right? Like people, they want value, right? Like there's like, can you give me what I want? And I'm like, well, I can give you this. It's almost like, okay, I can, I can give you a different experience. Is it that? Yeah. You know, sometimes people don't know exactly with forum, forum retreats. And I'm happy to refer them to other people too. So, you know, it's almost like, you know, you want bananas or you want potatoes, like what is it that you want? And they kind of like, oh, okay. Oh, this is what she's doing now. So it's like, okay, can you refer me to somebody else? Or I'm interested in what you're doing.

Like that refer out I, I think is, is great, but it takes a level of confidence that like, hey, if you're in the market for bananas and I'm a potato, Like, I've got a friend that's a banana. Like, like, 'cause I think all too often the potato says, the thought leader says, well, I know the attributes of a banana. I could kind of do the banana thing for a little bit if that's what they need. But I, I like what you said earlier. There are seasons and it sounds to me you're at a fairly developed and mature season of knowing sort of what you're about, what your work's about, who you serve, how you wanna serve them. And going back to what we said earlier, the, the flip side of that is, hmm. I'm not a banana, you know?

Right. It's also, and also like one of my mentors said to me, I think she used a peach, so it's interesting. She's like, you know, you can be the most juicy peach. There's always going to be people that are gonna be allergic to peaches. So it's like also this other way, right? It's like, okay, like identity is about like, who am I and what can I provide? And that can be reinvented several times, but I think at your core, you'll know what season it is right now. And so, yeah, it, it's interesting, like, but this is new and I want the people that are listening to this to know that this is not kind of like, oh, a revelation and there you go.

Like, no, no, no, it's iterative.

Yeah. A process.

Yeah. And if we were to, if we were to schedule a call a year from now, I'd ask, hey, what'd you learn in the last year and what's the same and what's different? And you'd say, oh, I was really right about this, but I was wrong about this, or I had to iterate on this and change on that. I think that's really The important piece, 'cause you know, we weren't having the conversations 4 or 5 years ago about how is AI gonna impact thought leadership? And at some level it feels like that's the only conversation too many people are having. 'Cause you know, at some level is, you know, the better question is how do I as a thought leader use or not use AI to be better at what I do? Is it a research partner? Is it about systems? Is it about like, there's a lot of things to do with it.

So, yeah. Yeah. I think AI scares many people also in my fields. Like I see them, they're like, oh, how could they use it? But then it's like, is it going to make me irrelevant or not valuable anymore. And I, I don't see that at all. I'm like, I'm, you know, riding the wave and kind of trying to see how use it. Love it.

Well, this, this has been great. I appreciate your time and I appreciate your transparency and, uh, sharing your journey with us today, Nina. Good stuff.

Thank you so much, Peter. Thank you so much for having me.

To learn more about Thought Leadership Leverage, please visit our website at thoughtleadershipleverage.com. To reach me directly, Feel free to email me at peter@thoughtleadershipleverage.com. And please subscribe to Leveraging Thought Leadership on iTunes or your favorite podcast app to get your weekly episode automatically.