Marketing for Artist | Miriam Schulman | 491

And welcome, welcome, welcome. This is Peter Winick. I'm the founder and CEO at Thought Leadership Leverage, and you're joining us on the podcast today, which is Leveraging Thought Leadership. Today my guest is Miriam Schulman, and this is gonna be interesting cuz Miriam is a, an artist. She's got an online class. She's helped a lot of, uh, artists get their work out into the universe. And now she is a published author of a book called Artpreneur. Did I pronounce that right?

Yeah.

Did I get there? Okay, good.

Good job.

Yeah.

Not everybody does. Sometimes they're doing like, they're throwing in an extra T, Archer. I was like, no, no, Archer.

Yeah. Right. No. So what Artpreneur is, is, you know, basically teaching, and, and I'll, I'll give it to you to describe better than I would. You're, you know, artists and, and, and those how to actually do the business side of it because great art, you know, without being sold is, you know, not a good thing. Is that— did I get that?

Yeah. You know, at the heart, I get asked a lot of questions like, "Miriam, you didn't talk about talent in this book." I know, like, well, come on. I mean, mindset and marketing are gonna trump talent every time. And we see this in every single industry, whether you're a published author, whether you're a coach, whether whatever you are, Kardashian.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, the thing, I mean, we've all seen like, people who are at the top of their fields, and we're like, I don't get it. What is so great about her? And whether it's Kardashian or somebody else, like we, you know, and it's all about the marketing. But the thing is, you have to have a really good mindset, or you'll sabotage it all anyway.

So, so I call it sort of the sizzle and the steak, right? So life isn't fair. I should have been tall, dark, and handsome, whatever. So there are some people that can sell garbage, right? There's some people that are incredibly gifted but don't have any marketing skills and they starve. And that's kind of just the way it is.

That's right. We've all seen very talented people again across every single field who—

For hundreds of years, thousands of years.

Right. And the people who understood the marketing and marketing is not nothing new. Rubens did it 400 years ago. So It's nothing new.

So here's where I wanted to stay with you, is that it kind of go a little meta for a little bit. So you and I had an interesting conversation the other day, and you were sort of explaining to me how you were eating your own dog food as a newly published author, and how do you market and sell the book? And I was sort of very much intrigued and fascinated by that because you were doing some really cool and interesting things that not a lot of folks think about. I would say it's no, you know, an author is a form of an artist, whether it's fiction, nonfiction, whatever. And most authors also think, well, I wrote the greatest, you know, business book ever. Why did it sell 7 copies? So give us a little bit of the things that you've been doing or share with us some of the things you've been doing to, to get the book out into the universe.

Yeah, I, I have, I have some, definitely some different things. I listened to your episode with Becky Robinson. Becky Robinson. Yeah. Is that her name?

Right. Yep. Leading Influence.

Yeah. Yeah. And you think you have like this $2,000 coaching program that Somebody would, will say, oh, I'd rather get the book. Cheaper is not easier to sell. Exactly. I mean, that's what, that's what I talk about in the book. But then, but it's like, but for some reason I didn't understand that even when it came to my own book, that just because you have this book that's $18 doesn't make it easier to sell. It's much easier to sell a $2,000 program. So that said, let's, you wanna dive into some of these strategies?

Yeah. Well, it's interesting that, that it's not just that cheaper isn't easier to sell, it's different. I would argue that the market for people that read books is not the same. I mean, there's some overlap as the market of people at a moment in time that need the coaching services of someone's got expertise that they need. Because plenty of people could read a book like, listen, I'm, you know, X pounds overweight. I've got the diet books. I know what I need to do. That's right. But there's a reason I have a trainer, you know. So I think they're just different markets. So talk about what you're doing as a new author. To get your book out into the universe?

Okay, so I did every— I tried everything, and there were some things I tried that didn't work so well, but we're gonna talk mostly about what did work. So first of all, I did have that preorder page. Here's your bonuses.

Yeah.

And when you order, like, blah, blah, blah. We've seen that before. You've talked about that before.

All the extra goodies. Yeah. Get the book now and you get all the extra things.

One thing I did—

my house for dinner or whatever.

One thing I did a little differently is I did see a lot of people having the one night Virtual party where they invite the influencers. So I actually did 3 of them and each one was themed depending on the, in the people, experts that I invited, because that gave it 3 times that I got to email my list. And the third one I haven't even done yet. So I've done it, done 2 of them already. So it's like thinking about like, how can you email about the new offer? So we know this in marketing that it's like having, giving them a different angle. Like maybe they didn't bite on that first bait that you threw out. So I had each one themed, so people were signing up just for that. Like, oh, I want the, the branding edition where I had Jennifer Cam and India Jackson. Like I had a full branding edition and then I had a different one where I had copywriters. And so you're giving people different angles for them to bite on. But I think what worked the best was the book launch team. And you said that was something that you haven't heard about. Was that something that's new to you?

No, no, no. I've seen the concept of, of book launch team. And I think what it comes down to, you had some different nuances to it, is that what I have found is when you tell someone, hey, I've got a book coming out, right? New author. Everybody, unless they're a jerk, says, that's awesome. Let me know how I can help. And then the conversation ends, right? Because your friends and family and colleagues aren't going to stay up late at night trying to figure out how to market your book. You have to come up with very specific asks that are logical, right? Don't ask me, hey, we just met. Can you come over and paint my house? I'm probably gonna say no, but could I share on social some information about a book that seems interesting to me and I just wanna be helpful and I have a, you know, strong network on social?

Sure.

If you're not a jerk, I'd love to do that. Like that's an easy thing. And then if I'm gonna offer to do that, make it really, really, really easy. Like provide me with the content that you wanna put up. Don't ask me to write copy, all that sort of stuff. And people want to root for you. So yeah. Yeah. Talk a little bit about what you're doing with the, with the launch team.

Well, let's even circle, go back a little bit. Further back, we will get to the launch team, but I even did that for my blurb strategy. So what you were saying is 100% true. Nobody wants to read your book. Nobody wants to write a blurb. They don't. They're, they're very happy to have their name in the front of your book though. So we had a very specific blurb strategy where I actually wrote out like 15 different blurbs for them and provided that for them and said, pick, pick one of these. It'll be just yours. Once, once you pick it, I'll take it off the list.

And I send that out and modify it if you'd like.

That's right, that's right. And the very smart marketers like, you know, Todd Herman and yeah, they both put in their, their brand keywords in there, like, oh, if you know, you know, whatever it is they want people to know about them. So it's the same thing with the launch team. People, they don't necessarily want to have to write a review, so You have to remember people are lazy, even if they love your book and they wanna help you, you really have to make it as easy as possible for them. So first of all, at the launch team, we made sure that we were giving them paperback books. If they, if they joined the launch team, they had to preorder the book. I went to my audience, people who we thought would want to do read the book anyway. So we said, hey, You'll get the advanced copy before anybody else. And I'll do some— I called it book group. I'll do some exclusive book group training with you. And we give them a bunch of other things. So we invite them in. Most of the people are not going to set up the NetGalley account.

Yeah, it's a pain in the neck, right?

They're just not gonna do it. It's impossible. I, I, I couldn't even do it. Yeah. It was like, I'm so sorry.

Right.

Like, so Or they don't want the PDF either. So we give them physical copies. And I had a pretty small launch team. I had 200 people, but in there I—

it's actually not that small.

No, it's not.

I wanna go back to, no, I don't think so because I think it's a level of the engagement and the commitment of the launch team. And then I, I wanna go back to what you said is, you know, even giving people PDFs, there is something special about somebody, you going through the effort of throwing the book in the mail. Cost you a couple dollars and it lands on my desk, whether it's guilt, like, uh-oh, there's her name staring at me. Geez, I need to do it. And you can have a lot more fun with it when people are taking a picture of themselves with the book, even they're at Starbucks or something like that versus I tend to read most things on Kindle, although I get lots and lots of books shipped to me all the time. It's kind of stupid for me to take a picture of me sitting there reading my Kindle, right? Like it's not gonna make sense. When I get that physical book, it's a better post.

Yeah. And it's, and in my audience, uh, you know, people I serve are artists. So I, I would tell them, put it in front of your easel, put it with your art supplies, tag me on social, I'll share it. So there was a lot of fun with that. But the, the main thing that really motivated people was not the free book, was not the book group. It was, I gave out 6 months of free coaching for the top 3 Book Launch members.

And okay, so now there's a contest, so you've gamified it. It's competitive. Yes, it's a contest.

Yes. And we treated it, that aspect of it, almost like an affiliate launch with the leaderboard. We posted the leaderboard, we let them know what's happening, and that really lit a fire under everybody. So they really wanted that. And because we did it based on engagement, the more they did the better chances they had of winning.

So that's great. So what are the other things that you are doing or plan to do relative to the book? Because, you know, without necessarily throwing the publisher under the bus, you're a first-time published author, you have a big publisher behind you. Who's doing the vast majority of marketing and pushing for the book?

Oh yeah, well, it's kind of like when my kids used to complain when they had group projects in school that why are they doing all the work? Actually, my son never complained. He was probably one of the ones not doing the work, but my daughter certainly complained. And that's how it feels like. I feel like I'm doing this group project. Why? Why is it up to me?

So, um, well, and it's the first time you've done it and you would also think, I don't, yeah, I don't even know what I'm doing. They've published tens of thousands of these over the years. They should probably know how to do this better than I do, but it's just not how it works.

But here's the thing, creativity is a survival strategy. So the more creative you are, the better. And by the way, Darwin, it was not survival of the fittest. It was survival of the most creative.

Yeah.

Who is willing to adapt? So here's the thing, it doesn't matter that I don't have experience because I'm willing to try something different. Like I just kept trying.

Well, and, and I think another twist on that creativity, Miriam, is that I've seen lots and lots of really, really, really, really smart people say, oh, I'm gonna do what all my other smart friends did. I'm gonna hire the best publicist and the best book launch and I'm gonna spend 6 figures and launch the book. Crickets. So creativity is also a resource constraint, right? How do I do what I wanna do with this book if I don't have unlimited resources?

That's right.

Because quite frankly, even when you have quote unlimited resources and do some of the things that everybody else does, they don't typically work as well as one would think on the backend.

Yeah. Like I saw other people who had books coming out at the same time and you can see from their Facebook ads account how much they must have been spending on Facebook ads, like all the different variations and all the ad sets. Like, I was like, ooh, that's like a 6-figure Facebook Ads budget to get that book on a, on a, on a list. Or the, or we were joking on our pre-interview, the, the billboard in Times Square.

Yeah, right, right.

And you're laughing, but I saw 2 people do that and they weren't, I don't think they were Photoshopped. I think they were real. Like, how much does it cost? They really think their, their book readers are in Times Square looking up and thinking, oh, that's a book I want to read.

I think, yeah, no, that, I mean, the use case is, is, is kind of silly. I mean, there used to be, they're doing it less and less, that a lot of these big PR agencies would sell a first-time author, we're gonna do an AM radio tour. So we guarantee to get you on 50 AM radio shows for a fee, obviously. And the fee might pretty, pretty significant. And then I'm like, let's think about the use case of that. I don't even know if there's AM radio in my car. I don't even leave the house anymore. It's mostly sports or that one guy in every neighborhood with tin foil on his head that listens to the AM radio that walks around.

You know that guy, right? Everybody's got that guy. The ham radio guy?

Yeah, the ham radio dude with the tin foil on his head. But like, so what is the use case of AM radio listening to a book will increase the propensity of you buying that book? It's kind of zero, right? So it's not a really logical strategy. If you're enjoying this episode of Thought Leadership Leverage, please make sure to subscribe. If you'd like to help spread the word about our podcast, please leave a 5-star review at ratethispodcast.com/LTL and share it with your friends. We're available on Apple Podcasts and on all major listening apps, as well as at thoughtleadershipleverage.com/podcast.

Okay, so let's talk about reviews. So I know that when you had Becky on, she was saying, was saying it took her 3 months to get to 100 reviews. So I am 30 days out and I have 85 reviews, and my— and I will get to 100 within a few weeks. So I'm— you want to hear how I'm doing it?

Yeah, that's phenomenal.

All right, okay, great. So it's 85.

You can't have more than 3 with the same last name. That's my general rule of thumb, right? With the same last name as the author.

That's right. There are no Schulmans there. Okay. Yeah. No, no. So what I, so the first thing I did is, of course, you know, of course there's the book launch team and they had to leave a review to be qualified as one of the top 3. Like that was kind of like—

That's a prereq. If you haven't even done that, you're out.

That's right. And okay.

Love it.

And even to join the book launch team, one of the Facebook questions was, do you promise to leave a review? And if they said no, it was like, well, so goodbye. Sorry. But the other thing we did was, so not everybody is into gamification or winning, or they, they're not gonna try cuz they don't think they're gonna be one of the top 3. So we, what we said to our entire email list is if they left a review and sent us a screenshot, that we would give them this ebook we had that we previously were selling for $48. So it was something my audience really wanted. So that led to a lot of reviews. And now the next thing I have will be a gift card for a print on demand thing. So for that one, I want them to leave a video review. So that one I haven't started yet, but that's gonna take me to over 100. So you have to—

Yeah, and 100, you know, and every people have different opinions 'cause the algorithms change whether the magic number's 50, 100, whatever. The magic number's not 5 and it's not 500, but that 50 to 100 range is probably the sweet spot. And I commend you, it takes a lot. I mean, sometimes you look and there's a very well-known author, it's their 5th or 6th book or whatever, and you go out there like, wow, they only got 17 reviews, right? And then you say, well, why are reviews so important? And the reason reviews are so important is it's social validation. So with all due respect, I go to Amazon and for some reason it kicks up your name. I don't know who the hell you are, right? So how do I know that? I don't even care about the $20, $25 for the book. Am I going to waste 5 hours of my time? Because I really— that's the most valuable thing to me. So when I start to look at the reviews, that's where I'm getting that social proof that says, wow, okay, 3, 5, 7, that might be baloney. They might have rigged the system. It might be, you know, the phony Yelp reviews or whatever. To get to 85, I'm gonna go like, wow, I'm just gonna probably just look at that number and skim 2 or 3. Right?

Because there aren't 85 Shulmans.

Well, there probably are if you look hard enough.

I don't know.

Fact check. Okay, fact check. We're getting— we're going to fix that in post and get a fact check.

Or check my maiden name.

Check the maiden name. Okay, there we go. There we go. Yeah, but, but I, but I think that's, you know, so the gamification engagement And I think you're really nurturing a community. And I think the other piece is this isn't all about you. People love to have people that they admire, respect, care for, et cetera, win and succeed. So, they're rooting for you, right? So, what did it cost them? It cost them a few dollars to buy a book, a little bit of time here, there, and everywhere. They're probably watching and tracking your success, not quite as much as you are, but they're part of the team, right? And they feel good about helping you get to where you want to go. That's right.

They— people want to celebrate your wins.

Yeah.

Cool.

All right. As we start to wrap, any other insights or thoughts? So it's you 2 years ago before you went on this book journey. What would the Miriam of today say to the Miriam 2 years ago?

Uh, writing a book will change you. It will change you. So it was very difficult writing a book. You know, it's kind of like when— do you have kids, Peter Winick?

Yes.

So you remember before you had kids and other parents were telling you it's hard and you're like, yeah, yeah, whatever. And then you have your first baby and you're like, uh, yeah.

Oh, that's what they mean.

Yeah.

Right.

Well, writing a book is the same thing. And I know you're wondering like, is it worth the hit on your time and your resources? Come back to me in 6 months and we'll talk about that again. Your business will take a hit. I mean, I don't know about you.

Opportunity cost-wise. Yeah.

Right. I only have 4 hours of genius time. Time in my day. So if that's going towards the book, then the business is going to get less of that pie. I mean, it literally— it, it's not like an ocean that I can just dip into anytime.

So I think that's a critical point though, because when people do an analysis of was the book successful, they're dishonest, not intentionally with the accounting. They're going, well, this is how much time I spent, whatever. And I'm like, okay, but if your business was doing X and it went down 40% that year because your time was allocated elsewhere, you have to factor that in. So you have to make that up to get to zero.

That's right.

And then get there.

That's right.

People really don't, you know, there isn't, you know, uh, the, the, the, you know, gap for accounting, but it's just logical to say, wow, if 40% of your time was worth X dollars that you washed away in the book, that's—

That's right. And I've talked to a few other authors who are in the thought leadership space.

Yeah.

Who have all, and we've shared with each other that yes, our businesses took a hit when we wrote our book. So this is something that you have to be prepared to do. And it's, it wasn't just like how much you're investing. Well, that's part of it as well. There's, there's definitely an amount, an, uh, financial investment.

Sure.

As well. So I wrote the book myself, but that meant I got a book coach to help me edit the book. Yeah.

Yeah.

Other people might have it ghostwritten. So there is an investment in, of money. There is an investment in time.

But it also depends on your business. If you're in a traditional coaching consulting business where it's dollars for time, however you slice it, it's gonna take a bigger hit than if you have a more diversified portfolio in terms of your business, subscription-based licensing, et cetera. Those things will take, will be far less impacted by what you're doing on that particular day.

That's true. So, I mean, my business is small enough that, yeah, it is still the Miriam Show. So yeah.

Yeah.

I, I don't have a big enough team where it's you know, everything is still coming through. I have a team, but, uh, but the big— like I said, the genius time, the thought leadership. Yeah, yeah, yes, it is coming through me. So for me, it— my business did take a hit last year. Um, this year it's, it's back on track.

Good.

Uh, I mean, not that I was in the red last year, but the, but the black was— yeah, less. Okay, it was, it was just less than I'd like. So, you know, we'll see it in a year, and it should You know, the return on the investment I'm making, uh, I'm doing a book. This is the Thought, a thought leadership podcast. This is what it's about for me though. I wanna make a bigger impact and not everyone's gonna buy my course. Not everyone's gonna listen to the podcast. Some people want the book. So having like that trifecta of you have a podcast and you have a, and you have a, a business that supports your thought leadership. And you have a book. I saw that as— that was my trifecta of impact.

And the last thing I'd say is that don't— the period of time that you're measuring success over, the book world operates in these 90-day sprints. I would argue that the value of the book is a 5- to 7-year amortization schedule. You're going to get dividends from this book in 3 years where you're not spending any time on it. You're like, wow, here's a dip. Like, wow, here's 5 people that reached out to me this year because of the book I wrote 3 years ago, and I'm not even really marketing it anymore. So you have to look at it. Longitudinally over an extended period of time. In the short term, it's a loser. In the midterm, it should at least be break-even or a winner. And in the long term, it should be a big win. So anyway, this has been awesome. Thank you for sharing your story and your, and your time with us today, Mary. I appreciate it.

Well, thanks, Peter. I enjoyed being here.

To learn more about Thought Leadership Leverage, please visit our website at thoughtleadershipleverage.com. To reach me directly, feel free to email me at peter@thoughtleadershipleverage.com. And please subscribe to Leveraging Thought Leadership on iTunes or your favorite podcast app to get your weekly episode automatically.