Strategies for Thriving in Leadership and Consulting | Sohee Jun | 581

And welcome, welcome, welcome. This is Peter Winick. I'm the founder and CEO at Thought Leadership Leverage, and you're joining us on the podcast today, which is Leveraging Thought Leadership. Today my guest is Sohee Jun. She is a premier leadership coach, a speaker, and a bestselling author. She's a mindset expert and a corporate leadership facilitator. So she clearly fits the profile of the folks that we tend to talk to on this podcast. I'm excited to have a good conversation with her today. So welcome aboard today. How are you?

Thank you, Peter. I'm doing really well, thanks.

Great. So let me ask one of my favorite questions around this, which is, which is, how did this happen? How'd you get here? Because I have yet to meet anyone that said, well, since I was 7, I dreamed of being a author, coach, facilitator, like it's usually nonlinear. So I may be the exception, but how did, how did one get here? How did you get here?

Yeah, I love this question and it really reinforces for me when I look back the, um, following the breadcrumbs. And I'm a firm believer that when you follow where there's energy and where you feel in flow and where you feel you have the most impact, that's the intersection of doing really great stuff in the world. So to answer your question more directly, Peter Winick, it's, you know, I was innately and have been fascinated by people and doing the hard work of integrating into a new culture at the age of 6. I wanted to fit in and I wanted to belong, and that propelled me into a lifelong love of connection and people. So fast forward to college when I make that really hard decision of like, what do we want to do for the rest of our life?

Which everyone should make that decision at 18.

In college, right?

Right.

So as I was grappling with the same question, you know, I just had to get real and say, look, Mom and Dad, a life of medicine is one that I know you would be traditionally proud of. However, that's not one that I can really give my energy and love to. And I made the decision to go into industrial organizational psychology, otherwise known as organizational psychology. So that led me into a career, a really broad career, doing very interesting, you know, impactful things for organizations, working with leaders and teams, strategy, culture, employee engagement, talent, all the stuff that's talent management.

But who's that? As an internal resource, as an employee of—

Yeah. Yes.

So talk about, so I think most people understand sort of that function and the role and, and all those other things.

Yeah.

When you're an employee, you don't have to worry about, you know, sending invoices, getting clients, where the next paycheck's coming from, et cetera, et cetera. So now you take those skills and apply it to a bigger universe, right? How does, how did that transition go for you?

It was very clunky. I'll say that.

Lucky.

Yeah. So, you know, in that, you're right. I, in my 15 years internal working with a lot of different companies, you can see on my, you know, website, I've been most industries, high tech, engineering, all of the things. And what I learned then was like, wow, okay, how do I prioritize? And one gives me energy, which is coaching and how do I impact the world in that way? So, you know, on this side now of being in my own consultancy for 7 years, it really was a clunky start to answer your question. It was like, okay, oh my gosh, I'm doing all the work. And then, you know, the first year or so I was doing more work than I'd ever done because you're wearing different hats. So it isn't just, hey, I lead a team now. It's now I am the CEO of my business. I may have contractors with me. How do I do marketing? Do I need to do marketing? How do I scale? Do I need to scale? Who do I bring in to support me?

Right.

In those first few years, it's all about making a lot of pivots, a lot of pivots, a lot of iterating is what I call it. And if somebody doesn't embrace that on this journey, it's really, you'll make it hard for yourself.

And I think part of that process is to be self-aware enough to say, oh, and here's the pieces of this that I either hate, I am not good at, or what, or I stink at, or I don't enjoy, or whatever the case is. And you don't get a hall pass, right? It doesn't mean, hey, if I'm not so good at accounts receivable or making those calls or whatever to collect on invoices, or, you know, pricing's not my jam, you don't get a hall pass, right?

Yeah.

Now the question is, either you've got to develop those skills and/or partner with folks that already have them so that you can do the things that add the most value.

Yeah, and I love that lens because it is looking at it from, okay, where can I make the biggest impact and value and bring value? And for me, you know, I like to say it's a yes and. Yes, you have to be self-aware, and I learned more self-awareness through the process. So by that I mean some of this stuff came organically in terms of writing and my love of writing. I'm like, oh my gosh, I didn't realize how much I really love the process of writing, which is why I birthed, you know, books and Yes. All of that. And then the speaking part came probably 3 or 4 years into my business where I'm like, yes, I did it in my corporate internal life and then doing it in this way, keynotes and different ways that I do it now, it's just learning how much you do love that and bring value in that way. Which means then, okay, if I'm putting those things on my, you know, to-dos, then I'm not gonna be in the business of managing my calendar or writing the newsletter or doing these social things. Which you have to offset with people that can support you in the right way.

Right. So what are the 2 or 3 things that you're doing very differently now from a business operation standpoint or the way you package your services or what, whatever the case may be from when you started 7 years ago?

Yeah. So the biggest thing that is true now is quality. So what that looked like early on in my business is, yes, I'll take that call. Yes, I'll do this. Yes, I'll do— so doing all, everything from marketing to the actual work to the actual coaching to the building of my website, right? It was, uh, I'm gonna do it all, to now I'm really anchored into the quality of what I provide, which means I say no a lot. So it's kind of, it's a flip. It's been a really interesting evolution to see where I said yes to most things and now I'm being very intentional. I think that's the other piece, intentional with my time. So I have an assistant that can tackle and block my calendar in the right ways and support me.

Just stay there on the saying no piece because I think that early on when we first venture out, it's, it's almost the default switch is to say yes to everything, whether that's internal, I'll write the newsletter, I'll do the this, I'll do the that. And/or external where, hey, is that a project I can do? Yeah, I guess I could. Right? Is that a project that I have the skills to do? Yeah. Is that the reason I struck out on my own? Probably not. Right? So I think it's that yes to internally and externally and having the maturity to say, you know, yeah, I could do that. I could do compensation or whatever else a client might ask you, but That's not what I really want to get paid to do. That's not what I want to be doing. And that takes a lot of courage sometimes because sometimes the, the P&L that month might say, yeah, yeah, take it, take it. We need the revenue. But that's a bad cycle to start, isn't it?

Oh, Peter, I mean, that is— you're honing in on something that I think really makes it or breaks it for people having their own consultancy or, you know, small consultancy. I think to And to your point, like, this has been two rounds of my entrepreneurship life. So early on, it was that yes, yes, yes, yes. And so what that looked like for me is I was taking on all the change management projects because it was available. People didn't quite know how to leverage me because I wasn't marketing myself in a specific way. And they're like, we're just gonna throw projects at you. And I said, okay. And literally, Peter Winick, I was working 60, 70 hours a week, way more, getting revenue, certainly getting paid, and entirely miserable. I was completely like, this is not what I came out to do. Right. And so that was lesson one. And on this side of it, you know, understanding what I want to do and anchoring to saying no and yes to the right things. It's, it's a practice and a muscle to build, and it's really difficult, and it is courageous.

If you're enjoying this episode of Leveraging Thought Leadership, please make sure to subscribe. If you'd like to help spread the word about our podcast, please leave a 5-star review at ratethispodcast.com/LTL and share it with your friends. We're available on Apple Podcasts and on all major listening apps, as well as at thoughtleadershipleverage.com. Forward slash podcast. Well, and I think an extension of that, I'd love to get your take on this, is sometimes early on, that first 6 months, year, 18 months, whatever, seems really, really easy, right? And, and what I mean easy is you put out to your network, hey, I'm doing my own thing now, and there's all that low-hanging fruit. Now, some of it you might not have chosen to pick and wouldn't do today. So it's like I asked and then I've got a full book of business. Then that sort of, it doesn't totally go away. But to have a viable, sustainable, ongoing business, you have to have a consistent flow of clients of the right type coming in, which therefore means you need to have some sort of a marketing function because a lot of, I think, consultants, coaches, etc., dive in and like, I'll deal with the marketing later. I have a website that'll cover my brand. But marketing, meaning marketing for the purpose of net new client acquisition. So can you touch on that for a moment?

Yeah, I think I was in that early on, meaning yes, everyone wants— they're so helpful. People want to help you when you're out on, you know, and so it's a very— it is that easy kind of low-hanging fruit stuff that you take on. And then for me, the journey has been, okay, I want to consistently grow in the right way, which means at some point I've got to go beyond my network, who I love and still maintain relations with, and it's an important part of my business to keep them— keep connected to them. And then the question, to your point, is how do you grow in a way that is aligned to your business and values and the ways that you want to grow? And for me, that's been a non-negotiable in the sense of like, I'm not going to do it when I'm not busy or being haphazard with it, right? And I think a lot of coaches, consultants, and the people in our world get in the mindset of like, oh, I'll get to that when, you know, I have a minute, meaning I'll get to the newsletter or I'll do this thing, right?

Right.

That really should be a consistent act. And so it's— that goes back to what you asked about earlier in terms of what do I like to do, what do I not like to do. I, I don't want to be in that business, so I brought in somebody on my team to help me do the marketing and the newsletters consistently. I can take it off my plate and still grow organically.

And how do you deal with the issue— well, there's two issues I'll, I'll throw out there. Pricing, but not just pricing in terms of, hey, here's, here's the engagement, here's what it's going to cost. But I think that it's a really awkward place to be as both the CEO, the negotiator, the salesperson, and the product delivery person, right? Like how, how do you, how do you thread that needle? 'Cause oftentimes, and I'll, I'll tell you what I'm asking, 'cause oftentimes what I find is the only person that wins in the case where that's so is the client because you either lower your price or give away more stuff or get more flexible on terms, something, right? 'Cause you don't want to be sort of the tough one, but you have a fiduciary responsibility to yourself to, to do things in a, in a way that are financially and fiscally, uh, responsible.

Agree. I think though why it's worked for me is that I'm, I'm always keeping a beat on what's the kind of the economic trends out there, right? So you meet with people, you get a sense of what are people charging, and I'm a firm believer being transparent, open about these things.

Yes.

So really keeping a pulse on both economically, what are people paying for, and, you know, how much is being charged. And oh, by the way, Peter, being on the inside and sourcing coaches and having vendors that I've dealt with, I keenly understand what, how they package things and what they charged for it. So that gives me a leg up in terms of, look, I led internally the organization development change management team. So that means I have an understanding of What are people charging? And so that is information for me when I go to negotiate or I'm sitting down with a client and saying, okay, I, in my head, I've done the work already up front of identifying what's fair, what am I going to provide, how many hours am I really going to put into this, what is this worth, what's the market paying. I do all of that research and quite honestly, Peter Winick, on this journey I found that I really love and enjoy the negotiation aspect. Of this work, which I thought I would hate.

Oh, that's interesting. Interesting.

Yeah.

And in terms of the sweet spot, now what's interesting I find is the longer someone's been doing their thing, the smaller, if you will, their sweet spot gets. 'Cause now they can identify, I am world-class at solving these types of problems for these folks. Yes. Is that, does that ring true?

Yeah, it absolutely doesn't. And also by, you know, where you feel you add the most value. So I started out broadly coaching at the, what I would call mid-level, and really understanding that space. And in time I've found, look, I coach from lived experience, so my niche is working with female leaders. Yep. And, and then going even further into, okay, well, I work a lot with Asian female leaders and like finding more and more sweet spots. So I, I think that's definitely been true for me and it doesn't have to be for everyone, but yes. And I'm wondering, Peter, is that, is that true for you?

Well, yes and no. So it's true that I love the question. So yes, from the standpoint of we are laser focused around the types of folks that we work with, authors, thought leaders, academics, et cetera, and the type of work we do. But that being said, underneath that, that we're not industry specific, et cetera, but we're laser focused on the type of people we work with and what we do. And I think it's really easy for us these days, the last, you know, 10+ years to say, no, that's not something that we do. And what we've done to sort of solve that for our clients, 'cause we still want to, you know, make sure they're getting the best of everything, is there's the core stuff that we do. There's some things that we do really, really well. Then there's some other things that we know our clients need, want, might have use for. And we've just, you know, sort of vetted a bunch of folks that we feel comfortable saying, hey, we're not a ghostwriting agency, but if you need that, you know, here's two people to talk to and we could vouch for them because we've worked with them for a zillion years or a publicist or whatever versus 10, 15 years ago, we might have tried to dabble in some of those things. And it's like, I want our clients to work with people that are top of the game in the subset of things that they do. And what I found is that actually creates a really cool cross-referral ecosystem.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. So I think it's, it's, it's kind of weird in that the less you choose to do in terms of what is your core, the easier it is to partner with others where you're not competing and, you know, you are all of a client service mindset and saying, hey, I'm really, I'm best in class at this. You're best in class at that. We share the same clients, but we're not sharing the same budget from that client, which makes that really Yeah.

I mean, I think too that, that is about like, how do we give to each other? And to me, it's about, there's always going to be work. Where do, what's the, the lane that you're in and how do you help others? It's all a part of this ecosystem.

Yeah, I think that's exactly right. Well, this has been awesome. Appreciate your time. Thanks for coming on and sharing, sharing your story and your journey today, Sohee.

I love it. Thank you for having me.

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