Turn Ideas Into Influence—and Influence Into Capital | Nick Cooney | 655

And welcome, welcome, welcome. This is Peter Winick. I'm the founder and CEO at Thought Leadership Leverage, and you're joining us on the podcast, which is Leveraging Thought Leadership. Today, my guest is Nick Cooney. He is the author of What We Don't Do, An Action in the Face of Suffering and the Drive to Do More. He is founder and managing partner of Lever VC. He was a co-founder and chairman of the board of the Good Food Institute and has done some really interesting things over his fairly, fairly long career. So welcome aboard, Nick. How are you?

Thanks so much, Peter. I'm good and appreciate you having me on.

So let me guess. So you're a busy VC, you got a lot going on and you said, uh, you know, I've got too much time. I think I'll just write a book because that's a good way to kill some time. Is that, that's how this happened?

Exactly right. Yes. No, you know, actually, um, it was not, it was something I wanted to write about for a while. The challenge is exactly as you mentioned, having the time to do it. And so the start of it was actually during COVID driving back from my parents-in-law's house in Chicago to where I live, uh, in the greater New York City area, long kind of 12, 13-hour car ride, had a dog in the car next to me, but it was just me. And so just started dictating into a recording on my phone. The general thoughts, ideas, some of the things I wanted to cover. And most of that didn't ultimately make it into the book, at least not directly, but at least it got the ball flowing. And from there it was vacation days, weekend days, things like that as I could. So it took some time because indeed things are always busy, but eventually got to the finish line.

And what was the— so I like that process. That's kind of an interesting process. What was the hope, right? So the book is done and as we all know, Writing a book is a monumental task, right? But there's usually, it could be an intrinsic motivation, it could be a financial motivation, it could be, I gotta get this message out. What, what was the driver behind that?

Yeah, so I think there's, there's two drivers. I mean, both of them have the same end goal in mind, but both ultimately lean to the same end goal, but like one in the short term, one a little bit longer. So in the shorter term, like to the very general question of what do I hope people get out of the book, or like why did I write it in the, you again, the short-term perspective. You know, I, my background spans both working in straddles, both working in finance, running a venture capital fund, thinking very analytically about finance, fi— investments, et cetera. Return on investment. And then this desire to reduce suffering in the world, do good in the world. And the book is really a combination of the two of those things in the sense of taking that analytical numbers, ROI type of mindset. And applying it to doing good in the world. And, and also as part of that, thinking about the huge amount of good that could be done if we take action. And then the flip side of that, the harms that happen when we don't take action. So the book came out of that overlap of interests and work areas of mine. And the short-term goal in the book is to— my hope is others see things the way I see them, or that they recognize in what I'm writing about here, a reality of the world that we live in. And from that get a desire to, to, to do more good in the world themselves, to give more of their money, time, energy, things along those lines. So that's sort of the short-term goal of if somebody picks up the book and reads it, that's the message I hope that they absorb and the way that they improve their life.

But I would argue that if I were to stop 10 people on the street and say, describe to me the attributes of a VC, the do good stuff probably wouldn't make it into the top 50 attributes for most VC, not that they're, not that they're bad people, that they're evil people, but it's about the things that you led with the ROI, the, the return on investment, the analytical skills, et cetera. So is this sort of in the genre of like a Measure What Matters, John Doerr's book, or is a little bit of both? 'Cause what you, you, I mean, you're trying to do good and I think a lot of times what happens is the do good folks are almost too altruistic and they don't wanna measure things 'cause they don't wanna be held to that account. Or it's just not how they're wired. So I, I kind of like that crossover. Is that, that makes sense?

Uh, absolutely. I mean, uh, one thing I often think about is if, if you think of the Venn diagram of people that think very analytically, are very focused on success and achieving quantified success in whatever domain. So, right, VC finance could be one domain, but it could be athletes being, beating their personal best or anything else that can be quantified. You think about those sort of people who are really motivated to achieve specific numbers and just move those numbers up and up and up. Dollars in the bank or anything else. And then you think about that group of people that want to help those who are in need or want to make the world a better place. Right. The overlap of those two circles is pretty small.

Yeah.

But I think it's in, in the overlap of those two circles that you have the, that any of us as individuals have the power to have really, really big impact. So my goal, uh, with the book in part is to reach people who are in that first camp, are used to thinking analytically and try to get them to help them to and inspire them to think that way about the good they can do in the world.

So move this into the VC world. Does it also serve as a vehicle to sort of elevate your brand and/or help with deal flow and the self-selection components? 'Cause I would imagine if I read your book, I kind of know where your headspace is at and what you're about. And if I'm looking for an investor, it would be kind of cool If they were aligned with my way of thinking, if it aligned with yours, is that a fair summary?

It is. Absolutely. And for our funds, so, so Lever VC, the investment fund I run, we are a returns-driven fund. Uh, it's, it's not an impact fund. We're focused on quite a food and agtech space and specifically subsectors there that do have a positive impact. So we, we focus on sectors that have a positive impact, but we're a returns-driven fund. That being said, we certainly have a number of investors that invest with us and certainly the large majority of founders in the categories that we invest into, um, who are mission or impact driven for one reason or another. It could be improving the healthiness of food. It could be improving sustainability in ag and so forth. And so, so yes, absolutely. I mean, uh, someone told me once years ago that a book is the best business card you could have. And I think there's definitely an element, a strong element of truth to that. Yeah. So like, it's certainly from a, benefit to the fund perspective. It certainly adds some increased credibility. It certainly helps those sort of parties for whom this way of thinking is a plus and is a good thing. Makes clear to them, at least for me as one of the partners in the fund, how I think about the world and trying to do good in the world while to do, have positive impacts in the world while also doing well financially.

So the other side, you know, I mentioned the deal flow, meaning folks needing funding for their businesses, but also it, it makes a statement and puts up a set of, you know, an ethos or a set of principles to investors, right? You have to raise money for the fund. Does it, does it work on that side of the coin as well?

Yes, I, I think it does for at least some of them. You know, I think there's some that care nothing whatsoever about impact, uh, or like positive impacts in the world at all. And, and that's fine. And that, that is really the majority of our LPs. More or less. Um, but then there's some portion that do care about impact. They're investing either to reduce climate-related goals, improving food system-related goals, or, or similar. And so for that subset of our LPs, and, and you're right, I mean, we're actively raising our fund too right now. So this is a very real present topic. It is helpful. It's, it's a, it is a credibility booster to have a book from a publisher like Simon Schuster and Regalo Press, to have a book that's, you know, done pretty well on Amazon in its categories., and just have a book in general that goes into this topic. Indeed, it can be helpful for those types of LPs for sure. From a credibility— Yeah.

You've been able to compare the book, however you just find the book. It's not just the writing of the book, but the ancillary things and stuff. The book as it relates to the marketing and impact and ROI on both the investor side and the deal side. Like if you've been able to say, ah, these, 5 LPs I wouldn't have gotten if we didn't have the book and these 5 deals, or how do, how have you been able to track that? Because I'm guessing you're a track guy. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's very early. I mean, as we're recording this, the book came out 2 weeks ago. So I think it's too soon to, to be able to track that. I would say that this is the first book I've written in 10 years, but when I wrote the last book, um, that very directly led to my entry into starting to work in the VC side, which was helping a family office set up a private vehicle. Focused on investments in certain categories. And I think that probably would not have happened, or there's a strong chance that would not have happened without the first book. So, uh, or that book from 10 years ago. So this one's new, but that experience that I've already gone through, that experience of write a book, get it out there to folks that matter, and it brings up conversations that lead to some really, really great financial and career opportunities without a doubt.

If you're enjoying this episode of Leveraging Thought Leadership, please make sure to subscribe. If you'd like to help spread the word about our podcast, please leave a 5-star review at ratethispodcast.com/LTL and share it with your friends. We're available on Apple Podcasts and on all major listening apps, as well as at thoughtleadershipleverage.com. Forward slash podcast. Got it. And I would also imagine that you're less worried about the short term of the book, meaning the way the publishing world and the, I call it the sort of book industrial complex thinks is 2 months before release, release, and 90 days after. That's kind of where 96% of the energy goes. But I would imagine you're playing the long game here. Like this book has a, no pun intended, you know, shelf life of 5, 7, 10 years or something like that.

Yes, absolutely. I mean, for the sake of the book's general financial success and the, based on my commitment to the publisher, I'm certainly playing the short game as well, right? So certainly trying to do everything I can, but absolutely. I mean, this is not a book about some topic that's in the news now and will be gone 9 months from now. It's a perennial topic and the, certainly the goal and expectation is the book both is able to keep selling for many years, but also delivers a lot of career value, relationship unlocks, opportunity unlocks for many years. Yeah.

And are there any other pursuits that you have relative to the thought leadership? So what I mean by this is the book is just one place your ideas live, right? It forced you, uh, and the dog had to listen to it, right? To sort of get your thoughts tight and put it together. And now it lives in a book, but you could do other things with it. Do you have other plans in terms of derivatives or offerings or?

I do. I do. So, and the couple prior books I wrote, while they're not on exactly the same topic, like this new book, all of the books I've written have to do with this, generally with being better, how we can be better at charitable or philanthropic efforts. And so in terms of this new one, what we don't do and how that can be that sort of content get out there more and be further leveraged. Yeah. So I don't, you know, I'd say this is sort of a half-formed plan at this point, but I am active in the nonprofit world as well, both from founding and sitting on the board of a foundation or two currently, but also giving. And I plan to do a lot more in that area in the next couple years. And so the book is, and this is to your earlier question, one of the longer-term goals also to help open up some opportunities to be able to do more in this space, specifically helping others. Who want to give and want to be smart about their giving to do so effectively.

So part of this really is, you know, your target market, really it's either investors or companies to fund, but the book could, could really be a way to evangelize these ideas against the broader side of the population that don't fit into the first two. Because why not? Like it's good for, you might not quote profit from it other than a couple of dollars book, but like the role of the author as the evangelist, I find an interesting one. Not in the religious sense, but—

I think that's right. And I think it also opens parallel opportunities. So for example, with investment work, we work with a range of companies, family offices, institutions, et cetera. They're looking to make a return and most of their money goes to that. Nearly all their money goes to that, but many of them also have charitable things they do as well.

Sure.

So if, you know, we as a firm over time can provide a more diverse range of offerings to the, to those sort of entities and individuals and, and so forth, including the philanthropic area. Great. It, it's another opportunity and an area where we can provide real value to them, I think.

Got it. Anything on the, you know, 'cause you're in that, that phase now, given the book as we're, as we're speaking today is only out a couple weeks. Any creative slash interesting slash different things you're going to try from a marketing standpoint? 'Cause books are really hard, right? Like, yeah. Writing it is hard, and as hard as that is, that's the easy part. But actually getting people to buy the book and then, you know, maybe even consider reading it, that's really, really hard.

Yeah, absolutely. So the book's gotten off to a good start. So in the, the, the couple weeks around launch, it was within Amazon number 1 in its category. So number 1 in charity and philanthropy, number 1 in social philosophy, number 1 in, in ethics and morality. Which is great. I mean, we're not talking New York Times bestseller or anything like that, right? But like decent start. So for me, the question now as we're chatting is, okay, how to take it from here to a much broader audience. Still in the early days. I mean, there's nothing that's, that's, there's been no home runs yet in terms of doing that. So it's definitely a work in progress. You know, I tried an interesting little somewhat gimmicky thing. I mean, it's completely true, but somewhat gimmicky PR angle of I will donate $100 for every copy of the book, every preorder of the book up until the, the week it was launched to the point of bankruptcy. I'll literally, literally give away all of my liquid wealth if enough people buy the book. I got some orders for sure, and I'm donating accordingly. Didn't turn into some viral video on, on Instagram or anything like that, or, or get any real news pickup.

But there could have been a follow-up book to that about, you know, the successful homeless author, right?

There you go. There you go. But trying to think outside the box. I mean, doing, doing the range of things that, that all authors do.

Yeah.

With some media pitches, op-eds, those sort of things. Have some other ideas for the months ahead. But yeah, we're kind of still early in that process. So knock on wood, one or two of those things will end up breaking through in the months to come.

And you know, as we start to wrap, any final thoughts? 'Cause this, this I always find interesting in that sometimes, you know, someone's getting ready to launch the book and like, these are the three things that I think This is what people are gonna love about the book, A, B, and C, right? This model, chapter 5, whatever, whatever, whatever. And then you're surprised and it's like, no, actually it was like 3 throwaway sentences in chapter 9 that almost didn't make it into the book that seemed to be sticking. Any, any of that kind of feedback yet?

A little bit. And it's, and again, it's very early, so, you know, I've only heard back from a handful of people that have read it so far since it just came out. But, but yes, there's definitely, it's like, for example, there's one particular chapter in the book, which basically encourages people who, any of us who want to try to do good, do more good in the world, to think like an athlete and incorporate the mindsets. I call it the Brady Rule from former NFL quarterback Tom Brady, right? Who had this fantastically famous work ethic of really optimizing his life, you know, everything around being the best he could be. And so I use that analogy to, okay, we should, if you want to do good in the world, take it as seriously and optimize your life and decisions around that as much as Brady did throwing a football better. And then I walk through examples of that. And anyway, it's, it's one chapter of the book. It's not the core thesis of the book, but it's an example chapter of how to, to kind of take the key lesson and put it into practice. And that's one that a bunch of people have flagged as, oh, this is my favorite chapter. I really like that in particular. So yeah, it's, it's not what I would've guessed, but it is interesting. And hopefully there's some good things that can come on the back of that.

Interesting because we're, Living in the world that we're able to optimize our sleep and our steps and our oxygen levels and all this other stuff. And I think tradition, well, not tradition, historically the be, you know, the quote best philanthropists are the ones that gave the biggest and had their names on a hospital building or whatever, which means that that's not an aspiration for most. And it could be an aspiration, but it's not pragmatic. But how can I be the best giver is kind of the same, but how can I be the best runner or best whatever sport it is? Based on my, I don't wanna say limitations, but my reality.

Right.

So that's an interesting way to think about it.

Yeah, totally agree. And even, and, and even before actually executing that, there's just the, the, the question of should we approach charity in that way? Should some, should some of us, those who can approach charity or philanthropy in that way, right? Like we're very used to the idea of people being willing to sacrifice their life for the common good, i.e., be a soldier and go to war or be a firefighter or something like that. To giving our lives to help children. Like, so parents in poor countries working in sweatshops all day so their kids can go to high school, right? Like, that's very common. But the idea of self-sacrifice to help others, like through charitable methods to help others, uh, the idea of putting in the sort of work ethic there that again, professional athlete might put in, an investment banker might put in, etc., that's not typically— it's not typically done. And so I wanted to talk about that in the book and just give that as a model of, hey, If it makes sense to do all those other things for the common good, if it makes sense to put in that work ethic to succeed at a career or a sport or a hobby, it certainly makes sense to do the same when it comes to saving the lives and improving the lives of others.

Fantastic. Well, this has been great. I appreciate your time, Nick, and thank you for sharing your story and the journey so far relative to where you're going. So thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Thank you, Peter Winick.

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