Turning Industry Disruption into Thought Leadership Success | Kerim Kfuri | 639

And welcome, welcome, welcome. This is Peter Winick. I'm the founder and CEO at Thought Leadership Leverage, and you're joining us on the podcast, which is Leveraging Thought Leadership. Today, my guest is Karim Khafouri, who's an interesting guy to say the least. He is a global entrepreneur. He served as president and CEO of the Atlas Network, which is a global supply chain enterprise.. He's the founder of Global Crosswalks. He's the author of Supply Chain Ups and Downs, and he's a great example of someone really, uh, investing in and using thought leadership to sort of elevate the brand, elevate his business, and do all those sorts of interesting things.

So, uh, welcome aboard today. Thank you so much, Peter. Appreciate it. And, uh, looking forward to a nice conversation with you today.

Yeah. So given that you're running these businesses, given that you're a busy guy. When did you decide to say, you know, I need to spend more time in my day developing and curating and, and researching and becoming a thought leader of sorts?

I mean, for me, it really started during the pandemic time. I would tell you, more than anything else, most specifically regarding my industry, uh, more than anything else, because the supply chain industry and the word supply chain became part of the common vernacular during this these days where people—

stay there a minute, right? Because supply chain didn't come to be during the pandemic, right? It always existed. But with all due respect, nobody really cared because the stuff was what we needed and when we wanted it to be. So why would I even think about it? Then all of a sudden, uh-oh, take my toilet paper away, now I'm really concerned, right?

So exactly, take my toilet paper away, I'm really concerned. Or, or in more serious matters, medical workers not having PPE, or whatever really was impacting our daily lives, our ability to get cars, the whole car market was disrupted and microchips and things that we use every single day, buy and sell our commerce, our economy was impacted. Workers couldn't go to work and people couldn't truck goods from ports to final destinations. Containers were sitting out in, in the ports outside of Long Beach in California and outside of New York, and you could see them in the distance, just like hundreds of ships just sitting out there marooned.

But what, but was it that the macro forces going on beyond your control led you to say, ah, the world needs to know more about this. Now's an opportunistic time to jump in and sort of grab the microphone.

I think it was that, but not so much opportunistic. I think the problem was, is there was a lot of misinformation. People just didn't understand what supply chain is, why it mattered, how it was going to be able to be improved. Being a global supply chain solutions company for, you know, more than 2 decades, this is like a, a playground for us because our entire world revolves around solving disruptions. So anytime that there's a major disruption, whether it's because of force majeure or political shift, a war, quality being, you know, poor for a company, or timeliness, or price hikes, or any of these kinds of things that actively can disrupt an end-to-end supply chain, my company plugs in with those entrepreneurs, small, medium, large size businesses to provide to them more accurate solutions. We have a network of almost 2,000 suppliers that we've built in the past two decades.

So, right. So your company, I'm sure, has lots of competition, as do most of us, right? Out there. But the opportunity for you to come in and say, okay, let me share this knowledge, let me put this out there. Let me, there is a market that will value what I have to say in the way that I have to say it. And the byproduct of that, or a byproduct of that, is I'll elevate the brand. I can compete at a higher level. I, I can differentiate the brand because it's kind of, the ultimate commodity supply chain, right? Move my stuff from A to B.

Yes.

It doesn't get more commoditized than that. So talk a little bit about the advantage and the benefits to the business. 'Cause my assumption is, we had a chat the other day, you're not a $100 billion business, right? You're, you're a good size.

Not yet. Not yet.

Good. Well, they'll tune in for more. No, but it's, but it's not like you're the, the, you know, the IBM in, in its day of your business that can afford to do or the McKinsey or whatever. So how did, 'cause I think that one of the beautiful things about thought leadership is it democratizes things in that you could be as smart or smarter than competitors 10 times your size or 100 years older than you.

Correct.

But you've got something to say. So what's been the benefits to the business?

Yeah, I mean, the, the benefits to the business again have been the ability to put out some best practices and best protocols around this industry. There's other competition, as you said before, but, you know, I think the way that we've always done things here at Atlas has been quite different than many other groups within my category, where for many, many years, when it came to supply chain or procurement or sourcing solution, right, it was all about the lowest cost solution. It was all about—

as it is many businesses, right? Give me the, give me the cheapest.

Correct. And, and we never sold that way. We never represented that way. The way that we always represented was on the things that people talk about now, the non-sexy stuff, visibility, transparency, resilience, robustness, being able to make sure that you have a dependable supply chain. And a lot of this background came from my work as a regulator. So I worked in the financial industry for many years. I was at the Securities and Exchange Commission. I was at the, I was at NASD FINRA for many years, and I ran a lot of their risk mitigation, kind of, uh, Sarbanes-Oxley and sort of corporate governance related activities. And it was through those experiences that I then transitioned that to an entirely different industry, which was global supply chain. So I, I came at this industry from the very beginning saying, is a Pandora's box of fraud. There's a lot of kind of low-cost solutions that are being provided, and in the end, there isn't enough protections or resources for the businesses that need it the most.

But go back to benefits in terms of, are you acquiring new clients because of this? Are existing clients staying longer? Are you invited to bid on opportunities that are far larger than you might have in the past? Sure.

All the above. I mean, all of the above. The, the, the more it, but it all started with that foundation. We had great business policies and practices in place because I don't believe that you can truly be a thought leader without having the, the concrete foundation to stand upon to say, this is the reason why I'm a thought leader. I'm a thought leader.

But you, but you can, in a B2B environment, have all of that foundational stuff. And not be putting the energy into broadcast and amplified. That's where I went to.

So, yes, correct.

That's true.

That's true.

Even that B2B marketing is not easy, right? Talk about the ROI of the investments you have made and continue to make in thought leadership relative to whether it's the growth of the business, the value of the business, net new client, like that sort of stuff. Because I think a lot of people miss the point often that it's actually a really amazing marketing client acquisition vehicle.

It absolutely is. I mean, we have been able to break into new industry categories. We've been able to get new clients that are in our current industry that just see certain levels of visibility. The company itself just holistically has been able to be more readily positioned as an expert in the field of global supply chain, even though we're not a massive company, as you said before. And that all comes through having that more, that more outward appearance and, and using the thought leadership side of this.

So unless you pipe up your weight, right? So if somebody's in, somebody is a potential client or a current client and they start to see you're speaking at conferences, you're reading, you're publishing your book, there's an implied like, wow, these guys are kind of a big deal. How cool is it that I, they're my vendor, they're my partner, they're my distribution partner, whatever. So there's sort of that piece of it, right?

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And then you have a, and then you have a FOMO piece of it as well, where you have other groups in a category say, oh, these guys are all working with these people and I see them out and about doing things. I would like to now get involved in this kind of, you know, successful train. And so, and so that happens too, for sure.

And you mentioned earlier, and I love this, that, you know, you've, you've never sold on price as an organization. Is this yet another justification for you may, and I'm not saying you're, but yeah, you're gonna pay a bit of a premium working with us, but here's why, right?

Absolutely. Absolutely. But, and, and the why, the explanation is, is you may pay an extra 50 cents, but we're gonna owe you, we're gonna save you those $5 in headaches. I mean, when you make these moves to delegate the supply chain management function to professionals who are looking after your interests every single day, you safeguard the interests of your business, the success, and honestly, in many cases, sometimes the ability that your business won't implode or possibly go out of business. I mean, there have been so many nightmare stories I've seen where clients or companies went for a low-cost solution. They had no visibility, they had no recourse, and they end up missing sales cycles, have to then fire people, and then, and their business essentially takes a major hit or potentially even goes out of business. So it's very important that, you know, we always sold on the idea that we're bringing true strategic value, and that's what's valuable to your, to your organization.

If you're enjoying this episode of Leveraging Thought Leadership, please make sure to subscribe. If you'd like to help spread the word about our podcast, please leave a 5-star review at ratethispodcast.com/LTL and share it with your friends. We're available on Apple Podcasts and on all major listening apps, as well as at thoughtleadershipleverage.com/podcast. So touch on for a moment, if you, if you would, the access that it gives you, right? Because pick a target ideal client for you and your sales team could be banging on their doors for, you know, months, as are their competitors. There's really two calls they can now make to a potential client, right? Or, or you could make, hey, we're a supply chain solution company, blah, blah, blah, who cares, right? Or, hey, would you like to talk to our CEO? He literally wrote the book on Right? Yes.

I, they have abs— absolutely. I mean, and, and that is, that is definitely a calling card. I mean, we talk about when you write a book, what's the purpose and the intention of it? You know, anybody who's written a book or is involved in it, it, it's not really necessarily a big moneymaker. So what it provides is it provides that backbone of, of some level of credibility, especially if you're doing something which is about best practices and protocols. I mean, to give you an idea, you know, I launched this book at ASCM, which is the Association of Supply Chain Management. It's one of the largest, you know, organizations in the space, which is all about the dedication to best practices, protocols, and, and, you know, with chapters across the world. And so I've always sort of taken an approach here to not just have it be for consumers or, or people who just want a nice general read, but it also to be a respected resource in the arena of education in this space too. So, um, that's—

no, and I think that's important that oftentimes thought leaders and authors are not realistic, right? Like your book is not necessarily a book that's gonna hit the New York Times bestseller that, that your friends, you know, your kids' friends on the soccer field are gonna say, oh golly, you're, you know, that's a great read. But who cares, right? Like the success is not based on number of units sold.

No.

You know what your marketplace is. And I would argue that if the right 20, 50, maybe 100 people got that book in their hands and it led to an outcome that's transformational for you and your business, correct?

It absolutely is. But it's not even just about those business leaders. What it's also about is it's about the whole new generation of students and consumers that want to know more about supply chain. I mean, supply chain is in the news every single day and is being talked about in so many different facets from tariffs that are coming down.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, it, it's, complete. We, we live in a global economy and the world has never been smaller due to technology. So I mean, it is a very consistent topic. That's why the book, 147-page, real concise, it goes from A to Z and is holistic in nature and is a relatable read, not something that is just overly, you know, covered in jargon and difficult to absorb. I mean, that's, that's not my intention. My intention is to to basically be a relatable voice in this complicated space.

Yeah. So on the educational side, I would imagine, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, that A, you're kind of setting a standard of what the right way is for that, the folks that you might hire in the next 5, 10, 15 years. And today, has it given you a competitive advantage from a, a talent standpoint?

Yes, absolutely. Because all you have to do is essentially, as you said, you know, state that we wrote the book on it. And now you're already dealing with certain people that are going to respect that, understand that, and are going to either really relate to it or they're going to really appreciate it. So absolutely, by having, you know, a compelling book and having a compelling methodology around how we're tackling this industry, it brings a higher caliber of talent. For sure.

So if somebody is listening to this now, not in supply chain, but another industry, whatever, whatever that industry might be. Yeah. And is sort of on the cusp of making those investments and diving into thought leadership to elevate the brand and the business, and they're not waiting for a pandemic to say, do that.

Ask Peter Winick.

Yes.

Yes.

What advice would you, would you give them?

I would say that you really can never lose when you bet on yourself. I think that that's a very, very important idea here. You know, we have so many opportunities to invest in things that relate to either our business or our lives, but when you take the approach of the thought leadership direction, you're essentially saying, I'm investing in me and I'm investing in the idea that what I have has value and interest. My hope is that the market will appreciate it as well, and then it will have the reverberating effects that we've talked about here today, which is bringing more business or bringing more focus or attention or donations or whatever it is that you're trying, selling more books.

Let's flip that a little bit, but that investment in me, that me might mean my team or my organization or my business as well.

Sure.

Right?

Yeah, sure. Of course it could, it could be. But I think I was just, I was just kind of talking to the fact of just when someone decides to say they want to get into thought leadership, why would it be a good idea to do so?

Well, but I'm talking about somebody that needs to make the case at their company saying, hey, it's budget season. Hey boss, I want to invest in thought leadership for this company and I need dollars and time and energy and resources to do it. The advice there, right? So one of the things I would be thinking about is make sure that you are managing the expectation with the powers that be, that this is not a get-rich-quick business, that don't think of this as a—

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah.

You know, it's, it's definitely a marathon. It's not a sprint. It's a thing that takes time. You're building up followings of people who are gonna then, you know, tune in or actively then promote to their networks what they've heard or learned from you, from your channels, or from your ways that you're presenting the thought leadership. It takes time, but what is interesting about it is, is there's definitely sort of an intersection point where the efforts start to kind of bear fruit, where you have people who, people or companies or organizations start to engage more.

Yes.

And you want, and they want to comment on the things that you're discussing. They then start asking for advice. Maybe that's when they then want to hire you or talk to references, and it starts to become a bit of a circular economy where what you put out then ends up coming back to you as well. So it, it's definitely, it's definitely an ongoing process. It's not a, we put in these dollars and tomorrow we see X dollars.

But on that note, so sort of the last thought I have, or last question I have is what are the right metrics? And what I mean by that is, listen, if you can attribute, hey, and we landed a zillion dollar client because they read the article and, and reached out to us, and then the salespeople did that, hey, of course you're gonna do that. But I think that oftentimes people get lazy and use vanity metrics.

Yeah.

You know? Sure. Where would you guide folks to say, Well, yeah, metrics are important. And what, what are the metrics that you should be considering to gauge your progress along the way?

Well, it starts with the intention, and then from that you can then build your metrics. So in other words, if your goal is to generate sales, let's say, and you are taking a very specific approach towards that, then that is gonna be one of a few different metrics. If your goal is to basically have engagement meaning for people to just be communicating back and forth with you so that it can then be able to generate, let's say, awareness for a cause or an organization, whatever it may be, then that could be a different kind of a metric. I tend to see it in terms of, you know, the things that most people would look at, and that's going to be how much traffic you're driving to a particular place if you're trying to position it for either sales or for information or whatever it may be. What kind of engagement you are actually having with people that are talking to you or, or going back and forth with you, how you are essentially being able to really move the needle and what that needle is. But again, in thought leadership, which is a bit broad, right? You know, it could be for business, it could be for personal, it could be for whatever it may be. You have to know what your end goal is to basically then be able to determine what the metrics are that you're gonna have to look around for that end goal.

Exactly. Well, this has been fantastic. I appreciate your time and all that you've shared with us today. This is great stuff, and I wish you the best of luck. Thanks so much for sharing, sharing your journey with us today.

Oh, thank you. I really appreciate it, Peter. Always good to be with you.

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