Turning Positivity Into a Thought Leadership Business | Ramon Ray | 710

And welcome, welcome, welcome. This is Peter Winick. I'm the founder and CEO at Thought Leadership Leverage, and you're joining us on the podcast, which is Leveraging Thought Leadership. Today, my guest is Ramon Ray. He is an author, a speaker, an advisor, uh, uh, I would say a guru of sorts to entrepreneurs. And, uh, he's been in this space for quite some time, so I'm honored to have him on today. So Welcome aboard, Ramon.

Hey, Peter. Glad to have you. Thanks for having me. Thanks for letting me, uh, have some value for your audience and thanks for the amazing work that you do in the world to make the world a better place in some way, shape, or fashion. So glad to be here.

Thanks.

Appreciate that.

So let me start with one of my, my favorite questions, which is sort of how the heck did you get here? Right? Like what was the, 'cause I'm always fascinated with the journey, with the path, with the serendipity of it all.

Like how did, How did this happen? Sure. I mean, I think like many stories we already know, you know, uh, how they, how they built it and stories of Walmart.

Yeah. Yeah.

But I'm not there at all. But meaning those stories that we know that have an affinity for us, slow, consistent work, 'cause I know you know so well. And the bottom line is who I am today, as you said, yes, I'm the founder of zoneofgenius.com. We help thousands and thousands of small businesses grow and start their businesses as an event producer, uh, Genius Talks, as a business coach and more. And how I got there, uh, the short, short of it is spent many years working at the United Nations. How I got there was a lady in my church said, Ramon, you know, they hire extra people during the General Assembly in the fall where all the heads of state come in. Why don't you apply and, and get some extra, get some work and get some money? And I applied there and I was there for over 10 years. While there, Peter, I got bit by the entrepreneurship bug. You know, I, I discovered for me the internet and bulletin board, right? Excel and Prodigy and all those kind of things. And, uh, and the two pivotal moments, I can remember somebody asking me, Ramon, can you speak for us somewhere? This was years later. And I said yes to that. And there got my professional speaking. And then other thing was that, hey Ramon, can you do some things for us and let us sponsor your brand? So the short of it, back that up a little bit.

So when somebody doesn't just randomly come up to, you know, an introverted actuary and say, hey, can you speak to us, my friend? What was it about the things you were doing? Your reputation, personal brand, like why would, of all the people at the UN, right, they'd say, ah, this young fellow would be great at that.

Yes. Good question. And again, that was a separate context. So I had my UN and then I had my quote unquote side hustle. So who you got it?

Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. But, um, but really a friend of mine and another tip, lesson of the day is build good relationships. A friend of mine, she's alone. I know you, I, I know the work you do. I can't be somewhere as I recall. Can you speak on my behalf? And, okay, my place. And so I spoke and that was just one of many, you know, it doesn't happen overnight, but you do that kind of thing over and over again and there goes your line of business as, as a speaker. So that's kind of how it started. Somebody who knew me saw value, kind of like me and you, let's say, and they opened the door for me. And 20-something years later, uh, I, I'm an in-demand motivational keynote speaker.

Love it. Love it. So break apart then your, let's start with your work in terms of the, the, the gist and the essence of your books, your thought leadership, and your content. And then I want to get into sort of the business side of that. So what is it that you're mostly known for? When people think about you and your brand and your stuff, they say Ramon is the X guy. What do you hope X is? Or what do you think X is?

What I hope it is and what it is could be different. Yeah.

Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's in my subject line, I think, is probably the most thing I hope is unapologetically positive. And a cousin to that is he's high energy. Now, does that— that doesn't translate into money offhand, but But honestly, I think that's what most of my professional friends will say. Ramon made us feel good. Ramon was positive. He was a dose of goodness in our life. So that's one. How does that translate? I think, but wait, wait, stay there cuz that's a personal attribute.

I'll attest to that because in every touchpoint you and I have had, I'm like, this is just a positive guy, right? Like, so that's one of the takeaways. Now that being said, you know, in the course of my work and such, I don't know that anyone's calling me saying, hey Peter, do you, You know, a positive guy that I could send, spend a lot of money with, right? So connect the, the dots there for me.

Absolutely. So when it comes to the 3 things I do, which are brands working with me who are looking for influencers, that's one line of work. 2, yep. Those who want me to help them grow their business, or 3, those who attend the events that I produce. That ties in because hopefully Peter Winick will think, you know what? I remember, that's right. This guy, I forgot his name. Oh, wait, wait, Ramon. He was just a great guy. Don't know exactly what he does. Maybe, maybe he's not a fit for you., but he's easy to work with. He's a nice guy and he's in the B2B space in some way. Have a conversation. And Peter, that's all I need. I may not be the right fit for somebody to introduce me to, but the lesson learned for all, not just me, but for to teach, to help others learn, is that I think that you're right. It's a personal attribute, but you can leverage this, the, the one or two unique gifts that God gives us all for business. Peter, you may be a more stoic guy, as an example, stoic, more serious-minded, but you may be great with numbers like That's your special sauce. People may not remember you as the fun guy.

It's okay.

They may say, but you know what, Peter, we gave you this problem. He laser-like got to the problem quickly. That's your gift.

So, so stay there for a minute because I think that, you know, part of your world is the world of a speaker. And I would say most of my clients speaking is one of the bullet points on their resume, if you will. It's something they do to some, it's the top line item on their P&L. To others, it's an occasional thing. And I think they often forget because it's such a weird business in that, you know, you're getting paid a ton of money for everybody to pay absolute attention, fly all around the world to see you. You're treated like gold. You get the big suite in the hotel and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. Well, not all.

Yeah.

Well, we've all done—

you're paid.

Yeah. Well, we've all done the gig in Poughkeepsie and whatever, but my point is A lot of speakers get a little bit high on their own supply and forget that they're in the business of serving the client, right? And the fact that the client got 100 or 1,000 or whatever many people to show up and hear them speak, it's not really about them. And I've seen some folks get so ridiculous in their demands or their this or their, you know, what they're looking for, or I'll do this and I won't do this. And instead of a really good speaker does their homework and figures out, hey, I'm here to serve you. What are the things you want me to say? What can I do? What can I do to make you look good? Oh, Miss or Miss or Mr. Whoever hired me, right? And I think they, it's, it's not about you. And I think that's an important piece for speakers to remember.

I love that. And I think you're right, Peter Winick. No, if, if all of us are serving each other, if I'm serving the client, if I'm doing the best I can, you're 100% right., than we would do. And I, and I hopefully by God's grace, that it's something I don't forget. I mean, I have my issues I can improve on, but I definitely remember. And it's not about me. Yes. But I wanna get paid. I wanna be compensated.

No, of course.

Yeah. Yeah. And so eventually it'll turn back to me. But if I'm taking care of Peter, Peter, okay, you invite me to do this event, Peter, who's coming? Well, Peter, remind me what you do again so I can shine the light on you as I close and say, go see Peter.

Yeah.

Peter's gonna be like, dang. Right. Come to one of my events if you're shining the light on me. And, and we're, we're eating together. That's how you build.

Yep. So you've got a couple distinct lines of business, right? There's the event piece, the speaking piece, the community piece.

How do they, how separate are they and how connected are they? Yeah, they're introspected to some way cuz I produce so much content. But the event businesses in my email newsletter and other publications that I have, people sign up and people going to the Unapologetically Positive endear themselves like what Ramon has, that what, what Thank— I thank God for that. So that's one aspect. And we want to come to Ramon's event. We know it's gonna be fun and informative. First fun, and if you happen to learn something, that's a bonus. So it's first fun, second informative. So that's the event line. As they come to the event line, I can say, hey, listen, here's what I'm doing. If you like this, if you wanna work with me, do XYZ. And so that will lead to the coaching side. And then the brand sponsorship, that's a kind of a separate area because the— yeah, that I work with, they're in other oases. But it's somewhat connected because they're seeing my content. They see Ramon out there as somebody who is an influencer, like MrBeast, the Super Bowl commercial he had with Salesforce. They saw him. He's not in their demo, but they're like, dang, this guy reaches hundreds of millions of people. Yeah. How can we work with him? So that's the synergy there.

Got it. Got it. So how, you know, the barrier to entry in some of these businesses is fairly low, right? A lot of people, you go to an NSA conference or something like that. And there's a lot of people that have dreamed of being a speaker because their friend told them when they gave a wedding toast to their brother-in-law, oh my God, you're so awesome, whatever. You know, nobody tells their friend you would be an amazing dentist and then they go to dental school, right? Like, wow, the way you floss is like no other. Like, you're just the best flosser. You should really go for that. Right. But some people, whether it's charisma, whatever, you know, and people push them to do that. What is it that you are doing, have done, and will continue to do to stay on top of your game?

Yeah, I think that a few things. One is opportunities like this. I say yes. If I can add value to someone like Peter and I can, I can have a conversation with him, a smarter guy than me in many areas, it's a yes. So that's one, saying yes. Number two is I think to add value and to hone our craft. I'm on Clubhouse quite a bit, the social audio app. People say, I thought it was—

okay. Yeah.

But I'm there so much. You, you can't mess me up with a mic dropping, screen not working. A baby screaming, you just can't. It, it's, I've done it so much. And again, everybody has different expertise. So don't everybody say, I wanna be a speaker, but if you wanna be a speaker, the more practice you're at it, you get the humor, you get the line, you get the serendipity, you get the, when the moment, when the pause for effect, all that stuff, you hone your skills the more and more you do it.

Right, right. That's interesting. Where do most of your, uh, engagements originate? And I want, I wanna get into sort of, you know, industry specialization or geographic specialization. Is there a pattern of organizations that bring you on more than others or, uh, or organizations maybe the other side of that, that would ask you to come on board and you say, you know, I'm probably not the fit for you. My friend so-and-so would be better.

Yeah. For the brand sponsorship side, it's definitely those larger brands. Usually they're global brands that have a distinct line of business for small business. Whether that's 35 million, 50 million, which is huge for the tiny businesses, or whether it's 2, 3, 4, 10 million in sales. So that's, they have a, some SMB component in their line item. Hey, Ramon, work with you to be our flag bearer. My, my client Bitdefender, they're based in California, security company. So that's one. The other bucket I think could be of companies, so that's a large B2B brand. Those who are hiring me to speak at events, uh, that's usually a trade show, an association, a conference like that. They may have smaller budgets, but they're looking for a speaker. They may not all be able to hire Daymond John. And to the point, the places though that Daymond John is at, Cody Sanchez, uh, many of the Sharks, uh, um, Simon Sinek and others, they may say, hey Ramon, yeah, we, we hired these big dogs, but can you come in and host the event for us? Can you be added a plus one to maybe speak ahead of them? That's where I shine.

Got it. Got it. So it's sort of in that space. Sometimes it's interesting to realize who the the 6-figure version of the 5, you know, figure speaker is and say, hey, there's a lot of people that can't afford Simon or Damon or whatever, and park your ego. You can make a great living being in the sort of aftermarket for that, or the— yeah, bring, bring it on, right?

Like, you know, I fly for $7,000, $10,000, $25,000 all day, or have Damon But now you need a few others to sprinkle in. Pay Damon his $150K, his $100K, whatever he is. Pay me $15K, $20K. We're good. I'll see you next week.

Yeah. Now, do you do a lot of your own negotiations or do you have people that handle that for you? Because that's, that's a tough issue for a lot of folks.

Yeah, generally I do it. My business is small enough to right now. I have a good friend of mine, Lee Hayes, and she's a speaker wrangler to negotiate the deal, especially when you have good inflow. Since mine are not so much, you know, 8 times a year, 15 times a year, depends on what I want. Easy enough. And usually people come in if they're the right company. Ramon, what's your fee? $25,000. We don't have $20,000. We have $19,000. Is that okay? Yes. Done. I'm gone.

Give me $19,000 and a bagel, right? Like, there you go. Exactly. So I wanna segue a little bit into your thoughts on the publishing landscape. So tell me about your last book, how you chose to publish it, and what the delta is between what your expectations were and how it landed.

Sure. I think Seth Godin says books are a gift. Is how are they a gift? Are they a gift to the person who's reading it? Because it's something tangible, could be digital, but something they can hold in their hands. They can remember.

Yes.

Which is the emotional connection. Very few people read it, but that's something from you they can get. And or the few percentage that do open it, that may read it from COVID to cover. They can learn my latest book, Celebrity CEO. People can download free stuff on that from celebrityceo.com. People have shown it to me with bookmarks, said, Ramon, this is a simple book that helped me to understand the power of personal branding. So I think Seth is right. It's a gift to people. And if you do it right, it's a gift to yourself that keeps on giving because you have to, you may wanna sell your book, but I'll tell you the little secret. It's not a secret. Me, I have hundreds of books in my garage. When I go to speaking events, I give them away. Now, A, hopefully sign up to my email list to get the book. That's your card. And/or maybe I work with the event host and they pay me a little more or figure it out and we give it away and I get some amazing pictures and video, which is the next event. Yep.

Yep. And I think the other thing that people don't realize with a book, no pun intended, is it's got a long shelf life, right? So you'll probably, and you've experienced this, getting a lead. From a gig you did 5 years ago, you're like, I don't remember being like, oh, that thing. But they held the book. Like, I, for one, feel guilty throwing a book away, right? Like, there's just something bad. Like, you don't do that. Like, it's whatever. So it might be sitting around on your shelf and, you know, the whole book industry runs around launch date and release date and 90 days after and all that sort of stuff. But like a book, like you said, it's a gift. It's a personal thing. I like the framing of that and then giving it away when you actually the author hands a book to someone, whether they paid for it or not, there is this sort of psychology that goes there. Like, wow, Ramon went through all this energy and he gave it just to me. And he maybe scribbled his name in it with a little smiley face or, you know, whatever like that. Like, I'm not gonna throw that out.

That's kind of a neat—

I don't have zillions of those things. That's a different sort of thing.

That's right.

So, so what's, what's next for you? So we've got, you know, Everybody's wrestling with AI and what it's doing and how you're using it and all that. And this isn't really an AI question, but what are you thinking about and hoping for the next 12 to 18 months in terms of what we, what, what's going to be the same in your business? What do you hope might be a bit different?

Yeah, I have 3 or 4 people that are my north stars. One is Tyler Perry, Tyler Perry, producer. He produces events. He has all kinds of things he does working with partners, and he also acts in his own experiences. So Tyler Perry is one, uh, Kevin Hart, many people know he's the comedian. He's the talent.

Yeah.

And he have other things that he does in movies and acting and producing, et cetera.

Yep.

Other person I'll give an example to is Hala Taha. People don't know her. Look up Hala Taha. She's an amazing YouTuber, one of the biggest, uh, podcast people around. So I say that, uh, Peter, because for Ramon Ray, it's very simple. I will continue to be the talent, the show, being showing up unapologetically positive with a smile. Smile and fun, making people feel great, happens to know the lens of that is going to be through business. And those will fester into, or foster into, live events, in-person experiences, bringing people together. Number 2, our online content, podcast, live, sure, video, and more. And then third, coaching, saying, hey, if you want some of this, I can help you, or referring them to people like Peter Winick. Peter Winick works for you to help it do your thought leadership better. That's where Ramon's going.

Love it.

Love it.

And maybe give an example of something you were excited about and didn't work. So for example, when you talk, when you said Clubhouse, I'm like, geez, I remember that during COVID it blew up like nothing I've ever seen before. And maybe something was in the, you know, we weren't leaving our house. We were, we were taking a shower. Like the whole non-video thing was sort of interesting. And then I, like, frankly, I haven't heard that term in years, but you found a platform that you like. What other things have you experimented with that maybe didn't work and why?

Oh, so many things. I mean, the past 2, 3, 4 years, Peter, post-COVID especially, it's been brutally tough for me. It's been really tough to know who am I and what am I doing? Uh, so I've tried a number of things. I tried, in fact, coaching before. I had a community. I built it on Mighty, Mighty Network, which is a great network. But it just wasn't a fit for me. It was a bit too big for me. So I just opened up a school group. But the point is I'm going back into coaching. That's why I have a community. It's recurring revenue. And sometimes, Peter, you do things on the first time, it doesn't work out, but you keep at it. You innovate, you change it. You know it's in the right direction, but maybe it wasn't the right time, the right way. You do it again. And so now I'm doing coaching and I'm loving it. Yeah.

What is it that you love about coaching? Is it, is it the immediate sort of impact you could see? Or, cuz there's a self-selection piece, right? Like most jerks don't wanna be coached, right? Sometimes I would argue that those that need it the most are the least likely. But what is it that you enjoy about coaching?

Sure. I think two things. One, I must say I like the recurring revenue as a business. Okay. People, $49 a month, it'll go up to $149 a month. That recurring revenue is one part I wanted to do as a business thinking because I didn't wanna be beholden waiting for a brand sponsor. So this is very— yeah, I have to figure out how to break into coaching for recurring revenue. That's one. But number two, Peter, seeing that people are really saying they enjoy it, they're learning, they're excited. It's now invigorating me.

Oh, that's cool. Love it. And you're, and you're also as a thought leader learning from, I think a lot of times, whether it's advisory or consulting or coaching, it feeds the brain in terms of, oh, here's something people are thinking about. If I was only on the stage, I wouldn't really know about that cuz they're saying this to me. Privately, and then you hear it once, you hear it twice, like, okay, there's something in the zeitgeist now that people are anxious about this or excited about that or bored with this. So cool. Well, this has been a lot of fun. I appreciate your time. I appreciate your energy. And for those of you that can't tell, it's like the positivity is certainly contagious when you have a conversation with Ramon. So reach out.

So thanks for having me, Peter. Appreciate you.

To learn more about Thought Leadership Leverage, please visit our website at thoughtleadershipleverage.com. To reach me directly, feel free to email me at peter@thoughtleadershipleverage.com. And please subscribe to Leveraging Thought Leadership on iTunes or your favorite podcast app to get your weekly episode automatically.