Unlocking the Power of Education | Russell Kern | 550

And welcome, welcome, welcome. This is Peter Winick. I'm the founder and CEO at Thought Leadership Leverage, and you're joining us on the podcast today, which is Leveraging Thought Leadership. Today, my guest is Russell Kern. He brings over 40 years of seasoned experience as a business leader, entrepreneur, author, educator, and speaker to the forefront of organizational development. His zeal lies in educating on the transformative power of effective coaching for cultivating high-performance teams. He's the founder of Kernan Partners, which is a consultancy specializing in human capital optimization. He lives in LA with his wife, Meryl, their 4 horses, and Penny, their affectionate Labradoodle. We gotta give a shout out to Penny there because—

Go Penny. Yay, Penny. And now Penny has a sibling named Teddy.

Oh, there we go. Okay. We have—

We have a little puppy, little golden doodle, another one.

See, this is what happens with the second child or puppy. We forget about, uh, we leave that out of the bio.

That is correct.

Welcome today, Russell.

Thank you for being here.

40 years, right? So that's, that's a, uh, 40 years.

I started, uh, almost right outta college. I was selling jelly beans when I was 19 on a pushcart in a mall during the Ronald Reagan era. I learned all about sales from standing on, standing right there in the middle of a mall. And around 25.

Well, actually you, you gotta give that some context though, cuz for those of a certain generation, they didn't realize that Reagan was probably the biggest marketer of, for the jelly bean industry. Yep. Up until that point. Right. He always had a jar on his desk that was sort of part of his brand.

It's very true. So, so there's a very, you know, I have a photo of me anyway. I sold jelly beans and then sales led me to marketing from leading UCLA. I started my own agency somewhere around 24. I was always a student of the craft of marketing, most importantly, direct response marketing. My father and I used to look at what used to be known as the New York Times Magazine. I know, oh, I'm dating myself, and the mail order ads, again, dating myself.

Right, right.

But in the end, it's all about human persuasion. And so for those 40 years, I took a little 2-man agency, $25,000, $50,000, $100,000, $200,000, sold it, and then stayed on to take it to $400,000 and transitioned to my new successor team. And they're doing great. So lots of, lots of lessons.

So talk about sort of the, the thought leadership side of that, right? So you ran an agency, built an agency.

Sure, sure, sure. The agency was built from thought leadership. So we grew the business as I'm growing now, this business through educating, the give to get. We would create thought leadership that was focused not necessarily on the future of marketing, but on the problems the marketers were facing in that moment. Because for us, our content was about finding those that were in trouble or need or worry. And so I always think of thought leadership, at least lower funnel, what I'll call pain magnets, not offer magnets. In the old day we call them offers, but I call them pain magnets because I want my thought leadership to be giving you a sense of relief that there's an answer to your problem and that from that leadership content, whether it's a class, a program, a webinar, we can now have a discussion about solving that problem. So to me, thought leadership was not so much about branding as it was about biz dev. Now, I did write a book called Surefire Direct Response Marketing published by McGraw-Hill, part of my thought leadership. I wrote multiple guides on marketing, probably 20 guides on marketing for our brand and establishment. But again, there was an overarching thematic of the purpose of that thought leadership as it relates to business growth and development, not just thought leadership for brand recognition.

So a couple of follow-up thoughts there. So one is when, when you're putting out the pain magnets, I like that we call 'em pain points, which is sort of the same thing. It also signals that you're putting them first cuz you're not talking about your products or offerings and solutions. And there's a little bit of ICU, right? There's a little bit of, wow, I know the things that are keeping you up at night that maybe you're saying them out loud, or maybe I'm putting words to things that you're feeling, potential client prospect, whatever. And I put a lot of thought into it and here it is in the form of thought leadership. So I, I think there's a big piece of that where people lean in and go, yeah, tell me more. Yes.

So I, I would say specifically for right now, Kern and Partners, where our thought leadership is I created 3 new pieces of content for what we're calling the Magnificent Mid-Level Manager. Well, one is what are the 12 behaviors of a magnificent manager and what was all the research? Here's a checklist for you to determine, you the senior leader or you yourself, am I really a magnificent mid-level manager? And then I went as far as to say, and here's a manifesto for you to write to give to a team member which says, I promise to be this type of leader to you. And so those 3 pieces of content, which creates a collection, are really about training and development and specificity of solving the issues to elevate. So that's the type of thought leadership content that I'd like to create. I know works and I know attracts for what I'm saying.

But I like that. That's very applied, right? Yes. Because there's, you know, when you look at thought leadership on a continuum, on a spectrum, there's academic stuff, which is great, but sometimes it's so clunky and so thick and so, you know, rich in data that you can't walk away from it and say, well, what am I supposed to— now what do I do? Right? And then there's other stuff that's sort of very light on the research. It's more anecdotal or based on charisma or do it because I say where you're like, maybe that's right, maybe that's wrong. I don't have a re— I don't have the evidence underneath it. So I love that you've got, it's evidence-based, but very Applicable slash approachable.

So, and I think that Peter, that comes from the aspect of, as a neuromarketer, that was my training. When it comes to changing behaviors, what we're seeking to do is make the brain more efficient by practicing skills. And what I know in our thought leadership is it's one thing to know what the statistics are, whether it be from Gallup or McKinsey, who does great thought leadership and great stat. But if I'm gonna help, if we're gonna help with our thought leadership, it needs to be small and pragmatic with practice. Yeah. Because that's what allows us to gain mastery. Just like going to the driving— I, I don't know if you're a golfer. I'm a golfer. Yeah. You know, and so if I practice, I practice, I get better. And so in thought leadership, I want to give pragmatic content that they can practice with.

You touched on something there that I wanna unpack, which is Gallup and some of these big folks, et cetera. One of the things that I think is, is really, really cool and wonderful and beautiful about thought leadership is it's an equalizer. It, it's the democratization in that Kernan Partners is not nearly as big as Gallup, I'm gonna guess. I, right. But you could be as smart or smarter than many of the people at Gallup, right? So, yes, there's an argument to be made and, and whether it's Gallup or a big, an agency or consultancy, whatever, My point is that the size limit of a smaller consultancy, agency, organization, whatever, should not be a deterrent to investing in thought leadership. In fact, it's the opposite, right? Because Current Partners is probably not buying an ad on the Super Bowl this year. I'm gonna guess.

No, we're not. No, no Super Bowl ads. But at, from starting this business for the last 6 months, that's all I've done is invest in thought leadership. First of all, my own thought leadership, because I went from marketer to, to trainer and developer and leader. And coach. So I'm now surrounded by probably 100 books and thousands of research because the, as you say, the great equalizer is I can take all that information and then present it in a way to solve a specific problem. And you and I both know the riches that are in the niches of the thought leadership. Yeah. And so I've taken all that data and be able to condense it down to something very specific for a very specific problem. And it's the piece that helps, as you say, to differentiate, grow, create opportunity, and provide credentialing.

And differ— yeah, the differentiate is big and you can punch above your weight, right? So you may never be, you know, have offices in 38 countries or whatever, but when people look at a piece of thought leadership in whatever modality format, it might be video, audiobook, article, whatever, they go, wow, that's pretty smart. And more importantly, that smart guy, wow, that's really relevant to me right now. And I've never heard that idea expressed in that way that gives me such relief, clarity, whatever around the issue. How do I get that guy on the phone? Right?

Yes.

How do I, I wanna play with them because yes, everybody, you know, I, I think we are all particularly in professional services fighting commoditization, right? You look at chat, you look at all these other things. There's somebody else that can do what you do cheaper. Me as well. Somebody else that can do what you do, maybe faster. Maybe there's even technology that can do it. But that connection that one makes vis-à-vis the thought leadership, that's really critical, I think, where it's the, I don't have to persuade. I mean, you said the neuromarketing, right? I don't have to convince you and put all these neuromarketing tricks on why am I good? I just put out there my smart thinking and the flypaper works, right? Right.

Well, in, in the end, people buy people they trust. And we are, we have adapted to know how to trust someone and how they communicate, what they communicate, what they share is part of the trust building that creates the relationship that creates opportunity. Even, you know, you and I have built trust just in our few conversations by how you deliver, how you speak, what you share. And so I think it's, I would say as anybody in the service business, ask yourself what thought leadership you're doing and what part of the sales journey are you trying to do? Like if you're a little per— I would never try to be McKinsey and Field a 10,000-person survey globally. Like, okay, that's suicide. On the other hand is I know for me is I need lower funnel thought leadership against a specific pain to start the engagement. And then because I have all the knowledge, I can convey trust and experience. And so, so much is strategy. What you like to talk about is what is the strategy of the thought leadership content? Not that it's not important, but what is it titled? And I'm a big fan because headline is everything. Headline is what calls. And then how is it consumable by the reader in a way that gets it to where it needs to be?

If you're enjoying this episode of Leveraging Thought Leadership, please make sure to subscribe. If you'd like to help spread the word about our podcast, please leave a 5-star review at ratethispodcast.com/LTL and share it with your friends. We're available on Apple Podcasts and on all major listening apps, as well as at thoughtleadershipleverage.com/podcast. When I like how you're mapping it against a sales process. So I wanna pivot for a moment and say one of the things that's really interesting about thought leadership is there's this, I think it's okay that there's a bit of a tension or a rub or whatever between sort of the content marketers and the thought leaders. So my view, I'd love to hear yours, is content marketing's great, right? If I just needed dentures, there's probably a whole bunch of con— and I don't, just for the record, but there's a whole bunch of content that I'd probably wanna read about the ABCs of dentures for a new user. Don't do this. Yes. Do this. Clean them. All, all this stuff. It's probably not thought leadership, right? If I was a new mom, which I'm also not. Yeah.

You would, you wouldn't call, you wouldn't call that thought leadership. You would call that lower funnel informational content. Right.

But I think what's happened, and this is where I was going, is, you know, teaching new moms how to avoid diaper rash, critically important. Particularly, you know, tell it to a new mom at 3 in the morning when their baby's crying cuz they have it, right? Totally important. Thought leadership, it ain't, right? And I think what happens is a lot of marketers think that thought leadership has more cachet, is sexier, is whatever. And I think there's nothing wrong with content marketing. There's nothing wrong with thought leadership, but they each have a role and a place and they're not interchangeable. How would you— Yes.

So I, I would say yes, if I look at it as the buyer, And I come from a B2B buyer's perspective is there's a smorgasbord of which the buyer now gets to choose from. We might use the funnel, but the bottom line is the buyer is looking, sometimes they're looking for what the future is gonna be. Sometimes they're looking to fix diaper rash. We'll stick with your analogy in that regard. And so from the thought leadership perspective is you want to be positioned as credible and your thought leadership is either a, a position of opposition. That's powerful that someone wouldn't think about, or an insight that they wouldn't think about and provides credibility. At the same time, you also need that other content to allow the buyer, the B2B buyer, to feel they're getting the answer. And so I don't know how else to call— I call it the smorgasbord way to— of content marketing. You need everything from the lobsters and the prime ribs down to the desserts.

And right, you're not going to McDonald's for lobster, right? So that's, that's my whole point. McDonald's.

So all of it needs to be appropriate And it all needs to be the same thing. But the importance about the thought leadership is it's saying is, you know what you're talking about and you have a point of view that, you know, what is your point of view?

So I totally agree. And I think one of the litmus tests, if you will, of a point of view is that not everyone will agree. If not everyone, you know, if everyone agrees with you, you don't have a point of view. You're vanilla ice cream, you're wishy-washy, you're, You're not going to stand out. On the other hand of that, you don't want to be so belligerent or ridiculous or over the top or use abusive, abrasive language or whatever to get the attention. But I think part of a point of view is to say, hey, you know what? Russell, you're kale and kale isn't for everybody. I just don't like kale and I appreciate what you do and I, you know, whatever. I get that some people do. This might just not be a dish for me. And others would go, Wow. Holy cow. Hallelujah, brother. I can't wait to get you on the phone and sign me up. And I think that it's the latter where, you know, if you have to be in the business of converting the way people think, you don't get paid for that. But when I, I experience when people come to you after they've consumed a lot of your thought leadership, that you don't have, there's not a lot of convincing that needs to go on right now. No, it's really focused on, I get what, who you are and what you do. Let's talk about me, right? And how, what you do, 'cause now I understand that. You can help me go from A to B or whatever that is, get to the other side of this thing, as opposed to that part of the sales cycle, which is, let me tell you why I'm great. Let me tell you why I'm good. Let me, like, I don't need to connect to myself. No.

And nobody really wants to hear it. They're, what they're coming from is, did you awaken my brain? Have you told me something that is gonna relieve my pain? Because people move from pain to pleasure. That's just the way we're work.

Yes.

Uh, we're wired. And now are you giving me something that's either of strategic value, economic value, or emotional social value? And your thought—

and that awaken my brain part, I think where we're struggling with that today as thought leaders is it used to be acceptable or standard to say, well, the way you're gonna awaken my brain is I'm gonna read your book. I'm gonna spend 7, 8 hours reading your book. I'm gonna, you know, it's sort of steeping in your ideas, processing it, whatever. Now the other end of that spectrum is, yeah, can you awaken my brain on TikTok in 60 seconds?

It's, it's so you can awaken a brain in 14 milliseconds. So it's not about the amount cuz our eyes are designed to absorb information at incredible speeds, but our eyes are also designed to not pay attention to irrelevancy. And so, so the crux of it all is How is your thought leadership packaged in a way that is visually arresting?

Yeah.

With supportive copy that's so quick, the mind goes, oh, I wanna pay attention to it. And that's not easy.

I really would say, well, I think a lot of, a lot of folks struggle because the way that they're comfortable with is, you know, long-form content, really wrestling with a problem, telling the story, putting it out there. And listen, I, you know, I read a business book or two a week. I love that. But I also watch TikTok and I, there's also other things I need that quick hit or, hmm, I look at that and go, that took 5 seconds. Let me try another and another. And then maybe I go deeper. So I, I love sort of the, the awakening the brain piece. And I think it's an excuse today to say, well, it takes a long time to awaken the brain. Right?

No, no, it doesn't. So that is, that is an excuse. That is not correct. We are evolved to pay attention in 14 milliseconds. Is there a lion that's going to eat us? We are primitive human beings and it also, you can see it. And, and when we see things, we are dopamine or oxytocin get released. It's why when we're in a grocery store and I'm in Costco, golf balls jump into my cart when I went for the chicken. Okay. But that 10 seconds of a TikTok or 6 seconds can be powerful or terrible. Yeah. And so it's not a time, but I do think you brought up repeatability and frequency matter. And so you can't just do it in a sick one 6-second. You might need 10 6-second spots that build upon each other. You might need frequency because frequency does do that as well as we know from the advertising community. But it's not an easy task to awaken, but it's something that happens. You know, you gotta work hard at it and it's visual first. So design, I even look at my own work, I go, oh, I got some more work to do.

Yeah.

Design matters. Design matters.

So this has been great as, as we wrap up here, any, no pressure, but any final words of wisdom to someone out there, maybe in your shoes minus 15 years where you were 15 years ago, like in the midst of launching a big agency or, you know, wrestling with the, I kind of get this thought leadership thing, but why and how and what, like any, any—

Oh, I would say allow for the experimentation. Just start on the journey. Use AI to help you get going. It's been a, it's a great help. It won't finish, it will accelerate the process. Be prepared for the evolution of your thought leadership as you get smarter of whatever you're trying to do. And the last piece I would say is see the niche that you're trying to be the thought leader to, especially if you're just starting or building. Don't be everything. Go find the rich. The riches are in the niches. Pick one and go for it hard. And then you can build bowling alleys out of, you know, Crossing the Chasm, Geoffrey Moore. But yes. Yeah. That's what I'd say.

Cool. Well, I appreciate your time, Russell. Great stuff. A lot of great insight here today. So appreciate your time. Thanks for coming on today.

You're welcome, Peter. Thanks for having me. All the best. We'll talk soon.

To learn more about Thought Leadership Leverage, please visit our website at thoughtleadershipleverage.com. To reach me directly, feel free to email me at peter@thoughtleadershipleverage.com. And please subscribe to Leveraging Thought Leadership on iTunes or your favorite podcast app to get your weekly episode automatically.