#149 How I Created Multiple Disruptive Medical Companies

Hey, everyone. Anyone who knows me knows I'm a big fan of conferences. In the next coming weeks, I'm going to be running our very own summit. It's called the Leverage and Growth Summit for Physicians where I interview 35 plus physician entrepreneurs and hear the stories of how they created their ideal lives using the skills they've already attained as physicians. So I thought this would be an excellent time to share one of my favorite Leverage of Growth interviews of all time with a physician entrepreneur, Dr. Davil Bonazali. If you like this episode, I encourage you to sign up at www.levageandgrowth.com so you can be part of the summit this year. So get ready to be inspired. I know you're going to love this, so enjoy. Welcome to the Passive Income MD Podcast where we talk about creating your ideal life through multiple streams of income. I'm your host, Peter Kim. If you enjoy hearing about this stuff, make sure to hit subscribe so I can bring it to you every week. Now let's get on with the show. Hey everyone. This interview I've been waiting for to do for a while, I'm super excited to talk to Dr. Davil Bonasali outside his practice. Well, first of all, he's a dermatologist. He's in New York City, but outside his practice he does so many different things. He's built numerous health tech companies like Skin Medicinals, Hair stem Labs and Air Health. These are all dermatology companies. We're going to talk all about these things. He's got a bunch of different other skincare projects on his plate including Fast Beauty Company as well as a company called 86 Elm with Martha Stewart. He's had a lot of cool collaborations, you know, but he's also well known and, and honestly, he's been decorated for his pro bono work and all that he does for, you know, his community as well, particularly his alumni community at Michigan State. I'm excited to talk to him today. Double. How you doing?

Great to see you, my friend. It's long overdue.

Yeah, I mean, I'm super excited to talk to you because every time I do talk to you, there are new things going on I can't keep up with. You probably need to do these interviews every single month if that's the way it goes. But hopefully I did you enough justice on the bio. But do you mind sharing a little bit about the things you do outside of your dermatology practice?

Sure. So I have different kind of different parts of my life, so part of it, skincare, as you mentioned, we have four or five or six projects coming in the next 16 to 18 months or so. Martha, dear friend, amazing person. She's one of the projects for sure. We have another one that's coming out a little bit sooner with somebody you guys probably will recognize. That's, like, the creative part of all of it. We did that one with Amazon. Obviously, that's it for that one part of the brain that you just need to kind of like, you know, again, get out that creativity, that different kind of brushstroke, if you will. On the tech side, again, we have sm, so skin medicinal, since we last spoke, has grown a bit. So sm. Quick summary. We created a compounding platform because, at least in Durham, drug pricing got out of hand on the generic side. So we are like, all right, let's figure out how we can use technology, kind of come together as a group of as a field, and see what we can do. So we're now at 350,000 patients served, which is in the HIMS Roman territory. We have about 8,000 prescribers, dermatologists on there. We've donated, I think, over $200,000, too. So whenever I do anything, I try to make some sort of social good part of it. It's been really fun. We have scholarships for residents, things like that. We built something called Hair stem separately. Hair stem was just me being obsessed with trying to figure out how to grow hair on people. That one's about 30,000 patients deep or something like that. I can't remember. It's going pretty well, too. And I think 3,000 offices are 2,500 offices, something like that. So those are on the tech side. And Air, again, Air is a whole different piece. That one is one, I hope, actually, other fields do the same thing. What we did is we brought all the Dr. Offices together. DERM offices were like, hey, can we get better deals from McKesson Velasco? My gowns be cheaper? Can my lasers be cheaper? And so we kind of almost create a digital gpo, which has been super fun. And then beyond that, I mean, other updates. We had that tattoo company, Ephemeral, which is tattoos that disappear after a year. That one's done really well. I think it just raised 20 million or something like that. The cool part about that, which not completely public yet, but it should be soon, is that we're going to be doing testing for radiation tattoos for cancer patients, which I think is super cool. Again, it's almost like a social good part of everything I do. And, like, that's one, you know, unfortunately, personally, you know, we have family members, things like that, which we've seen that process and it's one of those things where it's kind of bringing the worlds together and hopeful. You know, obviously, on the aesthetic, tattoo side, it's cool because you can have a tattoo and you can change your mind every year, have different tattoos. But on the personal, like, doctor side, I really think it will help a lot of people because as somebody who's removed tattoos for a living, it sucks. It's not a great treatment. It hurts like crazy. You can't get the tattoo completely gone, leaving a little bit of scar. And so it's going to hopefully be a fun little, you know, side project within that big project. So, no, we've been. We've been a bit busy then, obviously, my office is in New York. We try to do good and I appreciate you. Yeah, we. We try to do the right thing always and forever. And my practice is like this. It's my family, so my patients are my family. So we keep it very intimate. And it's been a privilege, honestly, to be part of it.

I mean, it's. It's really fascinating to see all the things you're able to juggle and do today. I think what I really want to know about and what a lot of people want to know about is kind of how this all started. I mean, you obviously did medical school, you went into training, you were a dermatologist. Like, was there any sort of inkling back then that you would venture into all of these different kind of entrepreneurial type ventures?

So, you know, and I think we spoke about this before. My big thing with doctors in general is we are more powerful than we realize. We are better equipped to solve problems than we realize. We're just kind of like beaten down. This idea that all we should do is focus right in front of us. Right, like, right in front of us. You know, it's like even how we treat patients, like, we all these, like algorithms in our head are based on how everything is. I mean, one of my famous cases was a little boy who got. Who was unfortunately attacked by a dog. You may have saw it on. It was all over the news during the pandemic. And he was told by his doctors that you can't treat the scar for 16 to 16 or, sorry, 16 months or 18 months. Something crazy. This is like a six year old boy. No, that's old paradigm. New paradigm means you treat it as fast as possible. We treated them within weeks. We flew them in during the pandemic. I Had to be very secretive because I was pretty sure I was gonna get yelled at by God knows who. But you have to do the right thing. And so we treated him. It wasn't for press or media, honestly, but, you know, the family kind of asked us to share his results because I think they were getting a little bit of heat. But we treated them because that's what you're supposed to do. Not again, what everybody keeps telling you, like, do this or do this. Where as doctors, again, we have the knowledge, you know, that's why I love evidence based research. But sometimes evidence doesn't exist. You have to create it, right? And so, you know, with this, the inkling for me was just I always thought about like, not just my patients in my rooms, but beyond my four walls, right? Like, how do I help those people? How do I serve? So with Smart, we've served 350,000 patients. I wouldn't see that many patients in my career. 10x, right? Like, it just couldn't happen. And we have the resources. And again, like, MBAs are great and I have no issue with anybody who gets an mba. But also you can hire an mba, right? Like, if my expertise is not in numbers or finance, which it is, I'm the worst business person ever because I don't look at numbers. I just build things, right? And I'm like, honest about it, right? So I find people who can put like some sort of structure on things that I do. But I like to educate myself and early in my career. And I think that kind of my advice for people who are watching this hopefully is like, scratch that itch. Like, it's okay. Educate yourself. I read every kind of blog that's not medicine, right? I read the medicine stuff, but I like looking at like TechCrunch or, you know, Financial Times or this and just like, okay, so this company just got acquired. What do they do? What was their journey? Like, who are the founders? What skill sets do they have? Right? I like the, like the, like the, this, this companies. Because a lot of times companies have missteps. You don't have to learn, like, what do they learn? What do they, you know, with us and sm, like, I would have never thought it got that big, right? We were trying to figure out all this different stuff. And you know, it's like you learn kind of baptism by fire. But in medicine, we're taught it has to be perfect from day one. Like, we have to, like, we can't jump unless everything is. That's not entrepreneurship. You have to jump and you Figure out on the way down you're going to make mistakes as long as you learn from them. You have a kind of a positive mindset that it will get better. Like it will get better. And so, you know, for me, I just always had that niche. I had to scratch it. And clearly I do it way too much. And so, you know, it's just, it's finding that balance. But I, you know, again, I just, it's been one of those kind of fun trip. That's why I love what you're doing. Because you know, this is kind of what I wish I watched early in my career too because I was so scared. So much anxiety around the idea of dipping a little bit into the water of a world I didn't know. Because in medicine, again, we're taught not to do that. And you know, it's okay, like it's completely fine again to learn new task. I mean, look, you've done it obviously with so many things that you're doing and you know, I couldn't tell you the first thing about real estate. I still don't know anything about real estate. Like, it's just, it's like bizarre to me. But like I can ask people like you and that's okay. Like that's how you learn stuff, right? And that's part of the growth of not just us as doctors, but as people.

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So I actually joined a biotech when I was in med school and there's a long story there. It's kind of a sore spot. Essentially we helped like build a delivery system for like medications, but also like skin ingredients, things like that. I learned it very quickly about how valuation works and how you don't get much valuation if you don't start the company. All this stuff. And it was, you know, I didn't end up it didn't end up really going anywhere, but it was like, I learned. Like, I actually. I started reading, like, business books. Like, I would call my MBA friends, like, hey, what books are you guys reading? I would just read them. Like, just. And, you know, the company itself didn't really go anywhere, but it kind of laid the foundation for all the steps I was going to take. And then I started a. In med school or, sorry, in residency. I started called Health Digital, which was a hybrid venture tech digital platform to build tech companies. And the same thing it did, it ended up doing pretty well because it became my own company. So I just built up whatever I felt like building. But, you know, there was a lot of learning experiences there, how to build other people's projects. Like, you know, the people who, like, trying to figure out who was going to do well and who did it. And it was actually very simple. The people who did well were committed. Like, they weren't one foot in, one foot out. They were like, look, I'm gonna succeed one way or the other. We're gonna do this thing together. I may have to take one step back to make two steps forward. Right? But I'll do it. And you can kind of read people pretty quickly based on their enthusiasm and also the ability to take criticism. Right. Like I have as a doctor, and I think all of us are the same. Like, I have trouble sometimes being criticism, so I'm like, don't I'm right. Like, I think I'm right. You know, and then you're like, am I right? And so with entrepreneurship, you have to be able to kind of roll with it because you have to evolve things. And like, okay, look, this might be not the right way to go to market, but maybe this would work. And this. And like, again with sm, I like to bring that up because it's become such a transformative company, at least in our field. It's like, nobody would have, like, the number one thing people ask. Like, how did you get all these dermatologists to, you know, support it? I'm like, it's just an honest answer, like, a good answer, I think, to a very simple problem. Right. And people are so infatuated, building all these complex solutions to problems that we don't even have. Like, I can't even prescribe generic, like, acne meds to my patients that don't cost 600 bucks with insurance system these days, you know, some or some insurance. Excuse me. So, like, I need something that's like 20 or $30 that I can prescribe and then compounding I mean, people have their thoughts on it, but compounding really just let you personalize things. I mean, that's the future of medicine on a macro level. Micro, maybe not again, the first or second step that we need to take. But at some point, personalized medicine is what we're all going to be looking for.

I mean, you mentioned that even you, you felt there's some fear there of, like, starting into this field into, I guess, assuming that you would have some missteps or some failures along the way. What did it take for you to ultimately get past those things to, you know, ultimately launch a lot of the companies that you made today?

Honestly, I think it was the. You get nervous about. So, okay, so I'll take a step back. What are, like, the big barriers that we have? Right. Number one, obviously, is our own kind of insecurity. We're nervous. Like, we're used to performing at a high level. Right. What happens if we don't fear? Right. And in medicine, again, everything's laid out for you. You know, that you go to med school, you take certain classes to get there, you have residency, you might do a fellowship, and then you're like, then you go into practice, whether it's academic or private, and you just take your steps. What if there's no plan in front of you? Right. Like, so that anx anxiety is barrier one. The second one is, you know, and I'm just going to say this right now. Entrepreneurship is lonely and you worry about people, criticize. I got criticized so much, like, and it's crazy because I never met half these people, and they're like, oh, he's doing it for money or doing this even in my office. I was one of the youngest people to open up a private office in New York City. And like, the people I looked up to most, like, it kind of got back to me. They were like, who does this kid think he is? Like, you know, he's New York. Like, he needs to, like, earn his keeps. Like, you can't open an office in New York. Where's he getting the money? Where's he doing this? All this, like, all these questions. I took out a big loan with pretty much all my savings, so, like, I didn't have any money to do it. Right. And so, you know, it's that fear of, like, what everybody else thinks that, again, as doctors, we, we tend to hold a bit too close to the chest. And I realize it doesn't matter. Like, if you're a good person, you're doing the right thing. Like, that's all you can really do, right? And I, like, it's funny. Like I said, it's funny because now people are like, you know, they'll have their opinions, but the good noise outweighs the bad noise, always and forever. And, you know, for me, like, the great privilege I have at least as a dermatologist, is talking to colleagues about their. Their projects, their dreams, their things like that, right? And trying to, like, nurture them along, too. And half the time all I have to do is, like, push them to jump. Like, I don't know anything about their projects. Like, I don't know the first thing about what they're working on, but I'm like, jump. Just like, jump. And so that was, you know, for me, that, like, fear what everybody else thinks, fear not knowing it. Like, that's what I think for me was very. I had to get over myself. And, you know, that's why I can talk about it freely. But I had, like, anxiety when I was doing these things. I couldn't sleep at night. I was like, you know, so worried. You know, what are my friends? They were. My parents say, what if I fail? Like, what if I lose all my money? But that's, you know, you know, it's like, you don't swing. You can't, you know, you can't hit a home run. So you got to do something.

I mean, now that you're around so many entrepreneurs and you probably see other physicians kind of coming up in this space starting businesses, but a lot of people that are watching this aren't connected to that world. They don't see that. So what do you see as potential for physicians to get into entrepreneurship, take on big ventures, you know, just take big swings, change the world? Like, what is the potential for physicians to do that?

So there's a couple of things. One is I would just reach out. You have to reach out to people, right? And like, I get yelled at all the time because I get a lot of emails, but I try my best to respond. I promise you. Sometimes you get a lot. But be persistent, right? Like, follow up with the email. Like, it's. Sometimes you miss emails. I'm sure you get it to just miss emails. Like, there's so many that come in for just work stuff, not even like our, you know, other stuff. And so be persistent, Join companies. Like, be advisors on companies. So, you know, we had talked about this previously. Like, I. I need more doctors to do more entrepreneurial things. Not because I want, you know, like, on a personal level, anything. I just think healthcare is better off if we're at the driver's seat or at least part of that conversation. You know, I'm not naive to the fact or like, you need business minds and money perhaps to scale things. Like, I get that and I, you know, but it's choosing the right money, choosing the right business people around you. There should be an ethical voice there in any company, right? Especially with like digital medicine kind of becoming the norm now. Like, I want doctors to be involved. And again, like, you don't have to be CEO. You don't have to be anything. You can be just a outside advisor or you can be the chief medical officer, right? But reach out to the companies, see how you can get involved. And don't worry about the money. Like, the money comes, right? And sometimes the experience is way more valuable than money. I did so much work for free for so long. I learned so much. Like even that first thing, I guess, at the first medical school, kind of quote, unquote failure. I didn't get any money from it, but I learned more than I would ever be able to repay anyone, right? And so I think you have to kind of put yourself out there and figure it out. And I think again, like watching webinars and conferences, like you put on communicating, I think Facebook is cool because you can like build communities where people just talk and be like, hey, like, I need help with this, or I'm looking for advisors for this or um, even for us on my, on my air platform. I'm. I'm in the process of creating like almost like a message board where we don't get anything for it. But I just want like, so. And so is looking for this advisor. This, Like, I just, I want to put it out there because the more people that are doing this, that means the less people who don't have our best, you know, our best intentions and our patients best kind of intentions at heart. Like, it's kind of swaying it back towards the medical led everything. And again, that being said, like, I'm not saying it's bad to have other people. Just you should be among them.

And what does it mean for people when they're watching this? They, you know, they hear the concept of being an advisor. It sounds great. Like, what is, what does that entail? And so people know, so it's clear to them, maybe they can figure out how they can get involved.

I mean, it's, it's what you make it, right? And that's part of negotiations. When you're coming in, some people might want you for half Hour a month, some people half hour every four months. It depends. Some people want you every day. And then I would probably ask for a little more than just the advisorship, but the other thing I would just kind of encourage is know your worth, too. So I. I don't want to contradict myself, but in the beginning, if it's free and stuff, that's fine. As you mature through your career, like, it's okay to ask for a little bit more, especially if you're doing advisor pharma companies, because they have a few bucks and they'll sort of like, knock you out a couple hundred bucks an hour, but they spend more on coffee at these meetings. So, you know, it's one of those things where, given the situation, like, also know your worth. But, you know, when it comes to, like, if it's a small startup, just started, you know, exchange equity for. Instead of money, right? Like, for my health Digital, how we did, like, initially, I didn't have any money. I wanted to be a venture capitalist. So what we did is I found a developer who had like, a whole development firm. I'm like, how much does it cost you per hour to build apps? And let's say it's like $5 an hour. We'll just make up a number. I'm like, that's your break even, right? I'm like, what do you charge people? He's like, well, I double it up to $20 an hour, whatever it is. And I'm like, cool. So how about let's charge like 11 or $12 an hour so you get a little extra and you have a little buffer. But let's take equity so you don't charge the last $8. Right. And by the way, it costs more than $20 an hour to build an app. But that was the example we took. So I wasn't making any money. He was making enough to cover his costs plus a little extra, but not much. And then we were taking equity. So that way we were able to work with lean startups, help them build without them breaking the bank. Essentially, they're paying at cost. And we were able to take equity in companies that have started to grow, and some of those are still in the process. Who knows if that'll turn into anything, but it's just kind of a cool mindset, I think, in terms of, like, not chasing every bottom dollar, but still getting something for your time, which is, you know, obviously that's the ideal situation.

I mean, you've talked about the. The want, the desire that you have for physicians and the need, I'd say. But what about on the other side for physicians? Do you think how important is it for them to get involved in these type of things, Especially with the state of medicine as it is today? Kind of where we're going, how important is it for them to venture off and try different things?

Yeah, I think it's one of those. You know, I feel like I'm worried about where medicine is going, the less control we have with things. And I think for me, a lot of this is, if we don't do it, then what happens kind of deal. Right. And I think for physicians, like, we have to push a little bit more than we're otherwise comfortable doing, because I think we saw with COVID like, were necessary in this whole battle, like, you can't replace doctors. But we've also seen with over the last few years that what defines a doctor has also changed dramatically. Right. And so we need to be at the forefront advocating being again on these platforms, making sure that patients get adequate care from physicians to the best of our ability. Hopefully. That's a good way of answering the question.

No, no, I think it's perfect. I mean, for you, like, when people see where you're at today, I mean, they're like, oh, my God, he's done so many of these amazing. You mentioned a little bit about the fear when you first started, but what were some of the other big challenges that you might share with people? Maybe some of the mistakes you made that someone might learn from.

So, I mean, money was obviously a thing. I didn't have any money, honestly. But, like, this was my mindset. So let's say it cost $50,000 to build an app or even $100,000 to build an app. The best advice I ever got is how much does it cost to open a Pizza Hut? You know, like, probably cost more. Right. And so if you think an app will make you tens of millions of dollars or $1 million. Right. Is $100,000 a lot of money? And the question is switching up your priorities in terms of, like, where you're like, I was living very lean my early years out of residency. I was saving in my residency. I actually use all my residency money pretty much to start Health Digital. Didn't have any money. And so, you know, how you succeed is based on how much you want things, you know, and again, I feel like that is something that. It's a mindstrips. Like, it just changes if you. Every paycheck, you're putting a certain amount of money, a thousand bucks a Month, whatever it is, 500 bucks a month. And over time, it's going to become something that might be your seed money to go build something. Right? And I think these are lessons that I had to learn myself because I was so scared about money, not having it and what do I do? You know, whatever. But at the end of the day, if you don't, if you can't fail, you won't fail, right? Like just in my head, I can't fail. I don't know, like I, you know, I'll have nothing, so I have to succeed. And then that's how you kind of get push through all those blocks and things.

Like, I mean, I love it. And people see you doing all these things and I've seen you now do this and I'm like, how does someone like this run a successful practice? Do all these ventures, you know, do all these startups. How are you able to juggle all of these things for people that are wondering?

So it's a good question. Actually talked about this with somebody yesterday. One of the best things I've learned as a practice owner is overpay good talent. And I think that's on tech also. It's in everything in life, right? You know, for me, at some point I was very lean about costs and I probably lost more money than I ever realized. I overpaid for my, you know, whatever market was for my last office manager, but she helps with my projects, my office, like everything. And it's been my life so much easier. So I like our job on the tech side should always be 30,000ft. Like we're not like operating. If you can do it, amazing. But like where it's hard for us to have that brain capacity to operate, a very like, you know, microscopic level that you need with a lot of this stuff, you need somebody to do it for you. But we also can see the matrix. As doctors, we see like the patient side, the doctor side, perhaps the business side, me less than most. But like perhaps. And our goal should be leaving that ship kind of where it's supposed to be. And so with my office, I'm the same way. I'm like, look, I don't look at our numbers coming in every month. I don't. My job is not are we doing well? They're like, we're doing well. My job is to build an atmosphere that has everybody succeed, right? And our office grew from. I couldn't beg anybody to come in. So I think I have like a year plus wait list to see me personally right now. Something Crazy. And it was based on just a mind shift. Like, okay, like, let me just do what I'm good at. Let other people do what they're good at, and I'm gonna figure it out. Because even, like, social media, like, again, we've talked about social media. It's a job. I mean, honestly, like, people dismiss social media and they roll their eyes. But, you know, I can do one Instagram post and get like 200 people in a day reaching out to our office for an appointment. And like, you know, it's weird if you think about it. We live in a bizarre world, but even at the glory days of the Yellow Pages, when would that ever happen, right? Do I put a billboard up? Am I gonna make 200 people? No, like, it's not gonna happen. So we have. It's like, it's. It's a real. Like, it's a superpower to be able to use that stuff and cultivate it for good. Um, but again, I think we sometimes dismiss things cause we're not comfortable with them and they're not like, native to us and we feel like we shouldn't be doing it, but, like, use it for good. I mean, my social is all educational. Like, I don't really do. I don't, like, I rarely mention the cosmetics we do. Like, I don't really want to. So, you know, if I do it to educational only, I'm like, oh, this is a procedure. This is like, what it is. But I'm not like, hey, come in. Buy one, get one free. Or like, you know, I don't do any of that stuff. So it just. We try to keep it like, my personality, but like, you know, and I know it's challenging. I know a lot of people probably watching this are like, social. Like, this is great. Like, I hate, I hate that stuff. And I. I'm not a big fan of social media, honestly. It's just. It's part of our job. So we do our best to embrace it.

I mean, something I have to ask now that. Now that you're at this point where you're at, like, how does it feel to be here? Right. How does it feel to do all these things and have your, you know, clinical side still as well and have all these ventures going on at the same time? Like, yeah, I mean, what goes through your head?

Thank you. That's a very good question. I mean, honestly, just. There's gratitude for sure. I mean, my general days are crazy. I wish I could share them with people, but they're so NDA to death. Some of the things that we do, but it's bizarre. But I get to go, like, to an office. I get to treat people I care about, right? With people I care about, which is just as important. I might slip into procedures, then to a tech meeting or a skincare meeting. We, you know, again, we have some fun celebrities that we're friends with, and you get to learn that side of stuff. I'm super grateful, but I can't say that I don't feel guilty also, because it's a lonely process, right? And you're like. It's like. It's like. It's almost one of those things, like, if you chase a carrot and you catch the carrot, like, what do you do? Kind of deal, right? And I don't know if I've caught a carrot, per se, but I'm living a life that I'd hope to live where I have, you know, diversity and options, and I'm able to do things that I would have never dreamt of. But part of you is like, I need more people to also feel like, you see, like, physician burnout and all these things. And it eats at you a little bit because you're like, you're in the. Like, you're in the system. You're not happy. Like. Like, okay, let's. Let's, like, work, figure out how we can make you happy, right? And, you know, I don't know. That's why, again, I, like, I honestly don't do many conferences or any. Any of that stuff. I like this because my hope is that there are people out there with stuff are, like, I need to be happy, and happiness is okay as a doctor. And we're gonna. We're brainwashed into, like, don't worry about you. It's about everybody else. But, like, you need to be happy to succeed in life, right? And to care for your patients. And so I think about that stuff a lot. You know, is it a lonely journey? Yes. Is it a rewarding journey? Yes. Am I thankful? Yes. Do I get sad sometimes? Yes. Because, like, again, you, like, you want to be able to share these things with colleagues and friends. And, you know, the doctors in my office all know, like, every one of them, I sit them down like, okay, five years from now, what are you doing in life? What do you want to do tomorrow that you aren't doing today? How can we build that into your schedule, into your structure? Right? Like, we're doing, like, one of our doctors is doing this big skincare launch now with. With another celebrity. And we, like, it wasn't my position to. To put that flame out. It was to nurture it, right? And so I was there. I do my thing. I help in the back end. I'm like, this is your baby. Like, you do this. Like, I don't. I don't. I don't want it. You need to be happy. I remember we talked recently because she come from academics, and she's like, look, I am thankful like this. I'm happy. This is the happiest I've ever been in my life. Like, I love coming to work. Whether she was saying that, who knows? But I, you know, I like, that's what you think about. And when you get to the position, you just think about, like, all, you know, a. All the people who could help you get there. But you're always. Again, gratitude is very important. I try my best to share that. And then two, like, how do I get others to kind of come into this world? Because I don't know what success is. People always ask that question. I don't know if this is successful. I don't think it is. I think success is just living your day every day on your terms. Like, that's my personal belief of. It's not monetary. It's not, you know, fame or media or press or like, any of that nonsense, right? Like, it's just, you're happy. You have a lovely family that you can go home to. You can take a break. If you take a break, you go to work with a smile on your face. You love your patients. Like, that, I think, is success. And trying to figure out, like, how do I, you know, a, get. Make sure my world has balance, and B, have other people kind of, you know, take that leap so that hopefully they can be in the same position. And again, many people are, and I'm happy for them. But those who are not, you know, there is, like, that's what your platform, I think, really helps people kind of work towards.

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Thanks, everyone.

Well, I mean, I love everything you said. I know that people are going to hear this. They're going to want to connect with you, find out more about you, maybe even hear of some opportunities. Whatever it is, where's the best place for people to do that?

So my email is Dr. Bonasali at Bonasali, Maryland. That's my personal email. Email me. Like I said, please follow up if I miss the. Is my Instagram and social. And yeah, I mean, we had previously discussed, like, even for me, you know, even for sm, like, we're thinking about like, okay, we solve a germ problem, maybe pain or opto might be next. Because I think from my patients and my colleagues that there's issues there with affordability of medications. So I don't know anything about either of those fields. I'm going to be very frank with you. But if there are people out there who listen to this whole, like, hey, I would love to help. Like, again, my job is to bring people together and to, to build, you know, make this a bigger project and buy us, you know, like, kind of deal. So if anybody wants to help, I'm happy to figure out how to bring you on board and do all that stuff. But generally speaking, even if it's not for that, I just, you know, my, again, my job and duty, much like yours, is just to, like, encourage people to do their thing and to be happy honestly. And so if I can help in any small way, I'm happy to do my best to try.

Awesome. I love it. I highly recommend, if anybody's interested, find out, talk to Dr. Bonasale. Double super approachable, great guy. And obviously he does amazing things. Before I let you go, though, I want to make sure I get a big tip from you or someone wants to follow in your footsteps. You got one for me?

A big tip.

Any tip?

I think it's just a jump. Like, just jump. Honestly, you're going to think of 8 billion reasons not to do something. I think if you jump, you'll figure it out. You're more equipped than you realize. You're more powerful than you realize. So you'll be fine.

Perfect. Well, first of all, I want to thank you for spending your time with us. Obviously, you do amazing stuff. Every time I talk to you, you're evolving, you're doing new things. It's been fun to watch your journey just from afar, you know. Obviously you're doing amazing work and just congrats on all you're doing, you know, hopefully next time we talk to you, we'll talk about even some new stuff. And yeah, keep up the amazing work. Let's talk again soon.

Absolutely. Thank you, Michael. I really appreciate it. All right, thanks.

Bye. Enjoy the show. Let me know by dropping a review in the podcast app you're listening to us in. And if you haven't already, make sure to hit subscribe. Are you part of our community yet? Join thousands of physicians who are also on this journey to creating their ideal lives through multiple streams of income. You can join us on our Facebook group Passive Income Docs, and you can always learn more at our website, passiveincomemd.com thanks again for allowing me to be a part of your journey. See you next time.