#157 Diversify Your Real Estate Portfolio With Mineral Rights

Welcome to the Passive Income MD podcast where we talk about creating your ideal life through multiple streams of income. I'm your host, Peter Kim. If you enjoy hearing about this stuff, make sure to hit subscribe so I can bring it to you every week. Now let's get on with the show.

Everyone.

I'm always excited to talk to this person. This is Troy Eckard of Eckard Enterprises. He's the CEO and founder. Just fun person to talk to, extremely knowledgeable in the area of investing as a personal investor, whether it comes to real estate, entrepreneurship, mineral rights, all of these things. And he's definitely keeps his pulse on what's happening in the economy and market today. So these the always makes for an interesting conversation. Boy, how are you doing?

I'm doing good. Thanks for having me on again. I really appreciate it.

Yeah, I mean for those who don't know who you are, you've come on our show before, you've talked to us a bunch of times about different things. Can you explain a little bit? Actually, can you do a little bit of a better intro than I've done for you? Tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.

I can, I can give you a quick 30 second synopsis. I started in 1985 as a licensed investment broker working for a small energy company who was looking at high net worth investors who wanted to own energy assets in the United States as real hard real estate and they wanted tax deduction. So that's how I started my career 37 years ago. And it didn't take me long to realize that it was a very difficult industry and that if you're going to have to build a successful energy portfolio, it's one where you roll up your sleeves, you get dirty, you spend the time out in the field and you really get to know it. And so fast forward 37 years. I own a company that's Anchored Enterprises. We deal in pipelines, Millerites drilling, other energy related assets. But it's all related to Eckerd being the manager for private individual investors who decided this asset class is something they want in their portfolio for various reasons. So been doing this going on four decades as of this year.

So I mean, as you know, I've been talking about this with you for, for a long time. Even before I became an investor, even before I kind of partnered with you in different ways. It took me a while for to, to wrap my mind around mineral rights, the idea like I remember how many questions. I feel kind of stupid actually to be honest with you. I, I kept asking some of the same questions over and over again, and I felt like it wasn't until you started kind of relating it to something that I'm already familiar with that I started to understand it. And that that topic is real estate. And so I thought for today's episode, I thought it'd be great to talk a little bit about mineral rights and talk about that comparison between that and real estate and how those two things are related and to be able to understand a little better. So kind of just starting with that, when you talk about mineral rights, explain to us a little bit about what that is for people who may not understand.

Well, I think the best thing is, let's start with the first premise. Whenever we started developing the United States with private ownership, when the country was started in the land grant days, everybody went out to settle the west and settle all the land in the US you were given a parcel of land with a legal description. But as it evolved over time, the U.S. which is one of the only countries in the world, said, well, you actually have three rights. You have the surface rights, everything attached to the surface. You have air rights directly above your X, Y coordinates of your property, but it's air not attached to surface. And you get all the natural resources below the ground, which is called mineral. So anything once you start digging on the ground, it's becoming mineral rights. And we're the only country really in the world that allows private ownership of mineral rights. Everything else in the world is owned by the government of those particular countries. So it's unique to the United States. It's unique that you can own three rights and you can actually sell one or the other are all three. In three separate transactions, all three rights are deeded, entitled, just like traditional real estate. Now that sounds great, but realistically, probably 80% of the country doesn't have anything under the ground of natural resources of any value. They don't have gold, silver, water, oil and gas. So the mineral rights have never really been any material matter to anybody because it's not, it was not worth anything. Right? But in certain areas of the country, you, your mineral rights can be worth four, five, a hundred times the value of surface rights. So from that standpoint, if you know where those natural resources are, owning those mineral rights could be substantially higher value than any service right you can own.

Hey everyone.

I'm excited to tell you about PIMDCON, the Physician Real Estate and Entrepreneurship Conference happening on September 21st through 23rd this year. As always, we're bringing together some of the Smartest minds in real estate, investing and entrepreneurship to speak at this event. Now, what sets this conference apart from others goes way beyond the speakers. It's being part of the community that's created at our live events. Now this year we're offering specific tracks focused on real estate investing or entrepreneurship acceleration so you can customize your experience and focus on what matters to you the most. Now, our expert speakers, coaches and workshops going to help you gain the knowledge and confidence you need to take your next steps forward and towards achieving financial success and independence way beyond medicine. And it's not just about the information you're going to learn from the speakers. It's about the conversations you'll have with other attendees that I know will spark new ideas, inspire you to take action. So every year people leave PIM Nikon and they launch their real estate investing careers while others grow their portfolio in exponential ways. I mean ways you wouldn't have even imagined. Now this year is going to be no different as you leverage your big ideas to expand your vision for what's possible. So join us in person in Los Angeles on September 21st through 23rd. There's also a virtual option available for those who can come live. So don't miss out on this opportunity to connect with a community of like minded individuals and gain practical skills and knowledge to help you achieve your financial goals. Save that date September 21st to 23rd, 2023. I'll see you there. Thanks everyone. Bye.

When it comes to real estate, you know, we're able to look at kind of online platforms, look at the market. You know, we all have a decent understanding of like what creates value when it comes to like our homes.

Yes.

Or piece of land and what can be, you know, the, the, the economics behind it. When you rent a property and that sort of thing, how do you actually figure out what are the mineral right there values? How do you even figure starting something like that out?

Well, and that's one of the key issues, Peter, is that the oil and gas companies, the majors, Exxon, chevron, oxy, for 100 plus years they've enjoyed the fact that understanding oil and gas is complex. And that's how they've taken advantage of mineral owners. They were able to get the leases really cheap. They were able to get terms really favorable to the oil company. They knew, the oil companies knew, hey, we're the tenant, but we're also on with all the money to go explore and drill. So for 100 years, it's always been obscurity in the middle owner or mineral Rights owner, understanding how it works. Well, it's even worse for the outside investor because if you didn't own the minerals, your grandfather didn't buy the land in Oklahoma or New Mexico or Texas, you know, 150 years ago. Well, you really don't even understand what metal rights are or how the game is played. So the advantage is, is that from my standpoint, I started working in the energy space in 1985. So I was the participant in drilling wells and understanding how these oil companies operate. So I think about a casino. I was on the player side, making the bats, drilling the wells, put my money up. And on this side is this, this guy in his fancy suit with a smile all the time because he's the house and he always wins. You know, that's how they pay for these billion dollar casinos. And So I spent 30 years going, how do I get on his side of the table? He never takes a risk. His chip rack never goes where they never stop the game and say, wait a minute, we need more chips. Because you guys have won so much. Those chips stay there for years without being replaced. So I said, how do I become a mill owner? That wasn't really a marketable idea until about seven or eight years ago. And because of 30 years of drilling and being on the tenant side, the drilling, the, the planer side, all of a sudden the market overseas, now you can be on the casino side, you can be the mineral owner and let Exxon and Chevron and Oxy drill wells free for you, and you get free revenue every month. And I go, bingo, three and a half decades waiting, here it is in front of me. So this whole thing evolved because of technology. So just like Elon Musk in a Spacecraft, up with 36 motors this morning, talking about how I can maneuver in space and everybody's moon and on that same technology is being used in oil and gas to drill that guy that drill bit four miles in the ground. So the oil and gas industry uses probably the most software and hardware to any other industry besides NASA with regard to using it for drilling accurate wells. So better technology, better oil and gas, modern technology such as horizontal drilling and fracking, combined with the fact that, wait a minute now there's 100 million acres in 30 states in this country that have shale plays that are now available for you and I to go buy mineralized. Now you just know how to read, may be able to read the map. You got the expertise and now you can compare it to, hey, real estate. If you and I traveled the country, went to Orlando, we went to Dallas or Atlanta or San Francisco, said hey, I'm a multifamily apartment guy. Well, you know the fundamentals, you know what it takes and ran occupancy and all that type of stuff. It's not, you don't know, but those are five different markets and they have five totally different parameters. What it takes to make money in that particular sector. Well, oil and gas mill rights is just like real estate. It's totally different in New Mexico than it is in Oklahoma, etc. So what we do, what we do is just like real estate investment. We focus on where we think the highest margin of value is. We go where we think there's the least regulation, the least obstacles to cover. And when we go, we want to have the best developers, the best managers, the people who know how to get that oil and gas out of the ground to the highest quality and highest value. And that's where Eckhart's four decades of expertise that we want to be in Oklahoma and the Permian basin in West Texas because the reasons I just described. So it's just like real estate. It's knowing your market, staying focused, not a jack of all trades. Learning from what you've gathered experience for 30 something years and now saying how do I get the highest point on the food chain with the least amount of risk? That's mineral rights.

Hey everyone have a quick question for you. Are you looking for a secure and reliable long term investment strategy? Meet Eckerd Enterprises. It's a family owned and operated firm with over 35 years of experience specializing in US energy and alternative investments. Here at Passive Income MD you often hear me talk about the need to diversify. One of the safest investment strategies available today, today are mineral rights. And with Eckerd Enterprises you can diversify your portfolio. Their team is committed to helping private investors like you and me identify and develop successful diversified portfolios with an average return on investment of over 24% across their portfolios. The Eckert team is dedicated to helping you build and protect your wealth through long term passive income. All of this while minimizing the risks associated with traditional investments. So check out Eckerd Enterprises. If you want that great investment experience, go to eckerdenterprises.com again that's eckerd enterprises.com thanks. And back to the show.

So is it possible that me as an investor kind of like think about this in terms of real estate. I could buy a plot of land, have the mineral rights, own it and then be essentially a landlord and where I can essentially get, you know, income from somebody coming in and renting the spot. Is that, is that kind of how it works?

100%. If you happen to own surface rights that came with the minerals, your grandfather, or you never sold off your mineral rights, you don't even know you own it. In many cases, these, these ranchers and farmers get a knock on the door from a landman that says, hey, yeah, I represent an oil company. They want to lease your minerals. And you're like, what do they want to lease my minerals for? And you say, well, they want to lease your minerals because effectively they plan on drilling some wells in your property. Go, okay, well that's great. I have no idea what they're doing and I don't know what they're going to drill and why. But here's $1,000 an acre for a three year lease. Well, in that lease document it also gives you a percentage which is called a royalty. Royalty, just like the Queen of England, King of England, I'm getting free income without any exposure to risk. So here's your thousand dollars an acre and we'll give you 20% of all future income, zero liability, no environmental, no drill. You're like, all right, I have no idea. So like you said, you might own the surface, you own the minerals that didn't know they were at value. All of a sudden they come drill three or four wells. These are excellent wells. This is what saved the US energy industry because of all the shell drilling that we've done. Next, you know, six, nine, ten months down the road after the wells drilled, you get a check in the mail, it's $180,000. You're like, what? Oh yeah, that's for three wells that were drilled. It was three months of production. And these wells will last 25 to 75 years. And I'm going to give you an example because I think it's important though, the real life. So my wife has two uncles and live south of Austin, Texas. They're in a basin called the Eagle for shale trend. Both of them were scrubbing out, living on 300, 340 acres worth of land. They had cows and crops, etc. All of a sudden they find out they're in the Eagle for trend. They have not made a lot of money, very little money in their lifetime. Here comes ConocoPhillips, knocks on the door, says we want to lease your minerals. They paid him 25,000 an acre. The surplus is only worth $2,000. They paid 25,000 acres, seven and a half million dollars to lease your land. They came back and drilled four or five wells on both of the uncle's property. They're now worth close to 35 or $40 million because of their percentage of revenue. And that's happened all over the country. So now all of a sudden we realize this is not just one area. This has gotten lucky. There's not one particular area that has, you know, maybe an advantage over others. Now we realize there's 30 states and 100 million acres. So not one single private equity or New York firm can afford to buy it because it's just, it's massive in size. Well, that's the window that opened up for Eckard saying, well, I have the expertise in knowing why they're drilling and where, who's going to be a better drill, who's best in class. I don't have enough capital, I got to go find Peter. And people like Peter Kim to say, hey, this is a window. We get to buy minerals side by side with Exxon and Chevron and Oxy. They do all the work, spend the money and we get to be like Catherine's two uncles to sit back and just get a check every month for the next 25 or 75 years. And I always get the same question, Peter, sounds too good to be true. I go, it does sound too good to be true. It is only because it's brand new as a cycle and it's asset class and an industry. It's only evolved in the last seven years. So it's really kind of cool. But what I like about it is from a real estate standpoint, you can use a 1031 tax exchange. You can take and go sell you some rent houses, take the Money, do a 1031 and buy producing minerals, not risking producing. You can go do an investment in minerals and sign your self directed ira, your retirement account. You can buy your traditional account. It's real estate. It's titled I tell people all the time, you can go to Oklahoma right now, stop at a truck stop, and on the bulletin board on the way to the men's room it says, Minerals for sale, $100 an acre. Well, that's true. You can buy the minerals. You're never going to find oil and gas because every parcel of land in this country comes with surface rights, air rights and metal rights. That hundred dollars an acre doesn't have any minerals or any valuable natural resources. So it's not only buying the minerals, is buying under the right location with the right tenant, the right oil company and the key is who's going to drill and get that oil and gas out of the ground to put that cash in your pocket. So there is some intricacies to it, but at the end of the day, this is a fantastic business because why Wall street can't control it, they can't dominate it. And it's not locking out high net worth investors like ourselves. It just means we've got to have a central way of doing it, which is what Ecker created a team that goes out, figures out who the better operators are, and then brings it to the private sector saying this is how we collectively can participate in a trillion dollar industry. To me, I love it. We're playing with bull elephants and we're not getting stepped on, we're getting to ride with them. It's, it's a lot of fun.

I've obviously seen some of the benefits from it and it sounds amazing. But as investors, especially the people that are part of our community, number one, they always worry or they actually want to know, like, where is the risk in this? Because again, Warren Buffett's first rule, right. Don't lose money.

Yeah.

Second rules. See rule number one.

Yeah.

I want to know from, from, I guess from an investor standpoint and this question that probably give you all people give you all the time, like, where's the risk in this and how do we avoid and mitigate that risk to make sure that we get the most out of this type of investment?

So I've been doing this 37 years and the number one risk is the oil and gas industry. Direct investment, not stocks, direct investment. 9.8 out of 10 people that call you with oil and gas are complete crooks or they're completely incompetent. You're never going to make money. I can tell right now you can put 100 deals on the table. 95 to 98 are poor financial choices. Ponzi schemes, failures, economically bust before they start. So absent having a poor manager, absent having somebody who has no intention of making you money, but making themselves money, when you get in the industry, the real risk on this is do we buy minerals that may have oil and gas, but no one drills a well? So it's buying in the right location with the right oil company that has leased those minerals. That is the true magic to buying minerals, is buying the minerals with a lot of natural resources like oil and gas in place, but knowing who's going to drill the wells to pull that oil and gas out. Now we deal with institutional buyers. Peter, a lot of these guys have put together 100 $200 million Wall street guys, beautiful Rolex watch, nice little suits, fingernails polished, never seen a wool rig in their life. They're dictating 100, 200, $300 million worth of mineral rights acquisition. And I can tell you when I sit down with them, they don't even know which way a drill bit turns. So their idea is, well, if Exxon and Chevron are drooling here, let's just buy a bunch of acreage and sooner or later they'll drill our wells and we'll make money last. Like throwing manure against the wall, right? It's not going to stick. So you're, you're an expert in real estate and you're an expert in multifamily. You're saying there's a 100 hard apartments I could buy, but which one is the one that's going to have the greatest value and the greatest opportunity? It takes skill. So we get to, we get to participate on that skill level. So where the risk is. Number one rule of Eckerd has do not lose money, period. There's no reason to lose money in metals. Number two, I got to make 10 return on my money or higher because it is an alternative asset class. Because of this lack of liquidity, lack of public market. Troy Eckard and my partners need 10% return annually or higher. Number three, we only want to be in minerals that have major growth opportunities, meaning they're not going to do a one well or two well. They're going to draw five, 10, 20, 30 wells. Because that's like adding another rental door in an apartment complex or a plex or any place. Every well drilled is proving up more value, more cash flow. And then the fourth thing we want is we want to have the ability to have zero exposure to capital. We don't want to have any bills. We don't want to be notified of costs. We don't want to have insurance or property tax. We want to own assets. That's a pure net income to us as the investors, which is what mineral rights are. So those four things are my rules. And that's what really applies to mineral ownership. It is truly the most passive asset you can own of all the asset classes.

I mean, one thing that we always worry about in real estate, where a lot of the risk is, is with debt and with leverage. And especially during this time in the economy, in the market right now with interest rates rising, we were, people are starting to see the fallout from that. How do you guys approach that in terms of debt leverage. And how does that work in your industry?

Well, we're doing what I would consider like climbing Mount Everest without oxygen. Well, we decided five years ago is we decided we don't ever want debt. And we believe the power of aggregation. We believe there's sophisticated investors out there like yourself and other professionals that say I just want cash flow with, with little risk and I don't want government influence, I don't want bank debt. I don't want somebody else pulling my chains, telling me what I can do. So I decided no leverage. We're going to pay cash for everything. So we buy the minerals, we invite our partners in. It's a one time check for a capital investment. There's no fees and no cost thereafter. So here's the point. Everything we need is 100% pure cash and netters. 12 checks a year and a 1099. Now the reason we do that is like in today's environment with apartments and self store, everybody's worried now that they're out of covenants with their loan. The problem with that in my view, most individuals who syndicate real estate deals or oil and gas deals, they're using debt not for your advantage as the investor, they're using it for their advantage. Why? If I got to raise $10 million, I put 2 million over five apartments, then as the promoter, I get a carrying interest in five deals, not in one deal. But it takes a lot of commitment and time to build a client base that can say, you know what, let's pay cash for those five deals. It's 10 million, let's raise 15 million. Now what happened is you're getting a true net yield off that property. You have nobody calling the covenants. And that's really what happened with us. Ecker decided we're a cash buyer and two things happen. We now have about $400 million worth of minerals under management. Right. We're cash flowing over 18% across all portfolios. Some are just blowing it off, off the water. Right. But all of them are averaging over 18% return. Here's the other thing happened. The sellers are now recognized in this liquidity dying market where the banks are retracting. They said, who's the only buyer out there that can afford this? Well, Eckard's the only cash buyer. We're being approached with 50 100, $200 million packages like nobody else can do it. Why is that important? If I have the inbound vacuum of the 2 acre seller, the 100 acre seller or the $100 million project, we're getting first look at virtually every mineral asset out there of any caliber of quality before anybody else. Because we one can buy it, we can execute. And because of our partners like you Peter, I have confidence. With a thousand millionaire accredited clients behind me, all I've got to do is call 20 or 30 of my best clients, say hey, we think we went fishing, caught a whale. What do you think? We think we like whale tonight for dare let's go get it. So it really has provided a major advantage. I'm sitting so cool as a cucumber right now because we have no one that's going to tell us to buy or sell. We're sitting there just cashing checks every month. And in this chaotic world right now, that's a pretty great position to be in. At least I think my partners are enjoying it as well as I am.

I mean I think that's fantastic that that's been your business plan. It's worked out really well in your favor. Obviously with this type of market, where do you see the market for mineral rights? You know, where is it going from here? We're hearing things about opec, we're here about energy independence, we're all renewable energies. But where is the market for, for mineral rights? At least you see in the, in the, I see in the next five.

To ten years let's use traditional real estate as a good example. So right now if I somebody said where do you see real estate in the next three to five years? In my view, I'd be gathering as much cash as I can because there'll be so many distressed and defaulting real estate owners. So it's not happening that much today. It is going on, but the real opportunities in about 18 months when the banks are just loaded with all these distressed loans they can't get rid of, the equity is gone, the bank's got to divest their bank bank balance and you're going in and buying bank debt for 50 cents on the dollar. So you're getting it for 30 cents on the dollar. When you throw the equity in the bank's reduction in cost. So the opportunity is in 18 to 24 months. Well, oil and gas is the same way. The more that the administration puts in regulations and hurdles, the more they sucked out all the reserves out of our strategic petroleum. They dumped it on the market to artificially suppress prices. When OPEC comes back and says hey, we're cutting 2 million barrels out of our future production in October and then a month ago they came back, we're adding another million, what they're basically saying is, OPEC has said is, we think the US Economy is having a recession. We think demand is going to drop. We're going to get ahead of it. We're going to lower 3 million barrels a day. So when the recession hits, we're basically parrot pursuer equal to demand. So they preemptively have cut production. But what that really means though is the United States, who is a massive, we're the number one consumer. We're importing 47% of our oil. So what I'm looking at is the same opportunity as those distressed real estate. I'm saying with no money in the market, sellers who have to sell to pay for that John Deere tractor, those farms and that equipment, they're going to find no one to buy in the market. I think we'll be the buyer choice for the next 24 months. Then I think we're have a tough time. I think oil is going to be substantially higher. Mineral prices are going to go up because everybody, their brother is going to jump in. They're going to muddy the water. It's a great time not to buy minerals in 24 months. Today it's wide open because we have no competitors. So just like real estate, when that door opens in about 18 months, you, me and everybody, we're going to sell our watches and say I'm buying every good from the banks I can buy until I can't buy anymore. We got about 24 months of that fund and then it's going to go back to market value again and everything rotates. Minerals are the same way, oil and gas the same way. We're in a buyer's market right now. We control the poll. Sellers are not in control right now. The real estate guys are saying in about 18 to 24 months, we're going to be in a position with cash to buy that distressed real estate. So my clients who are heavy real estate investors are buying minerals like crazy now and they use that cash flow to buy real estate when it comes out in 18 and 24 months. It's a dual. It's a dual pestle. Buy what's available now at the most distressed price, which currently is oil and gas mineralized.

That's great. I mean, Troy, you've done a great job explaining all this, I guess from a real estate standpoint, kind of matching the two together. Is there anything else I'm missing when it comes to thinking about mineral rights, thinking about real estate, thinking about ways to understand that from a different perspective, in ways that might be Easy for someone like me or people part of my community might understand.

Yeah, I think it is. I think the biggest question I get is two part. One, why would anybody that has it sell it? Right. And the second question is, is that how can I look at mineral rights as something that is a, is a main part of my asset portfolio? And so what I would tell people is that every other part of your investment portfolio is directly affected by energy cost. So when you look at stocks, they're the gloves doctors use, the syringes, the cars you drive. Every part of your daily life has petroleum in it. But if you don't own direct ownership in energy, when you're balancing your portfolio, your real estate comes down, your stocks come down because everything's getting more costly. Inflation, it's got it. You got to have something to counterbalance that. Well, oil prices go up when inflation kicks in. Gear oil prices go up when everybody else is having a hard time. So if you counterbalance that by having some direct energy Tom, you, you reduce the losses in your other part of your portfolio and you can have significant gains. The other thing that's really important to understand is that these sellers are like having a good poker hand. So let's say we're playing five card poker. You get five cards, I get five cards. I draw three aces and I got a two and a ten. You draw three keys. I don't know what you have you don't want to have. But what I know is I can sell these two cards, I can put down these two cards, the 7 and the 10, and I might get a better hand. What these middle owners are doing is saying, I got a farm, my buddy's in trouble. I can sell 20 acres out of my hundred acres to Troy, and I can take that cash and buy 600 acres of service for my, my partner next door who's going to go to the bank and get foreclosed on. So they're simply taking a hand of cards and lay down assets they own to improve their hand and have a better day. The same thing we do in real estate. You and I both know you buy a nice apartment complex, you do all the bells and whistles, you fix it up, get the noi to the top market, go. I pretty much got this lipstick on about as good as it's going to get. I can sell it now, reap the benefit and redeploy that in a better opportunity. Same thing happens in the mineral rights. I mean, we're negotiating a huge deal right now under exactly that circumstance. This is A massive portfolio. They're going to sell 25% of their portfolio. And the reason they're doing is they're saying, we've already made a lot of value in this, we can sell it today and go buy something else. They're just reshuffling that deck and it's a great way to see an evolution, just like real estate has. Right?

That's great, Troy. I think people have gotten a lot from this episode. Again, you shared so much information that I think would be super helpful if somebody else wants to find out more about kind of the education side of this, wants to find out more about mineral rights. Where's a great place for people to do that to continue their education and ultimately how can they connect with you guys if they want to know more?

Well, we spent the last three years building the state of the art proprietary app called Eckerd Insights. You can go to Eckert Insights www.eckertinsights.com. you go on there, you log in and say whether you're accredited or not accredited doesn't matter. You can be a college kid. And that gives you access to all, just hundreds of videos and hours and hours of education information. And virtually every subject you can think of is probably on a video on the education material. And then you can decide, hey, I like what I say. I want more. You can sign up and say, ask somebody, contact. I'd like to see how it works and what you guys offer. The best thing for me right now, candidly, I mean, I'm almost 60 years old, but the best thing for me right now is our portfolios are selling out so fast, we really have zero pressure. So it allows me to really work slowly with a new investor, a new partner. Say, let's figure out where you're at in your portfolio. Let's figure out how we can best serve your needs. There's no pressure. Once you're educated, once you're informed, then you can make that decision if you want to. But I enjoy that because, you know, it is a strange business. It has a lot of worms that are not normal to the sector. There is a, an analogy between real estate, but it's not the same. So you've got to get comfortable. I don't like doing anything I'm not comfortable. And so once you're comfortable, then you can make a prudent decision. And I like that position we're in right now, which is laid back, educational. When you decide, the door can be open. But until then, it's just about informing and telling you what's happening in the oil and gas sector.

Well, Troy, I want to thank you for the information. Full disclosure, Anchor Enterprise has been a great partner of ours at pimd. You've been at our conferences, you're part of our podcast, different events and it's been great to get to know you guys and your company. And I think a lot of people have found a lot of benefit from from getting to know more about mineral rights. Think it's an area that's been unknown to us, but you've really shed the light on on different opportunities that are available for us high net worth individuals to provide that cash flow, to create that cash flow that people are looking for ultimately that passive income. So Troy, I want to thank you for your time and look forward to talking to you more in the future.

Yes, sir. Thanks a lot. Appreciate it.

All right, thanks Troy.

Enjoy the show. Let me know by dropping a review in the podcast app you're listening to us in. And if you haven't already, make sure to hit subscribe. Are you part of our community yet? Join thousands of physicians who are also on this journey to creating their ideal lives through multiple streams of income. You can join us on our Facebook group Passive Income Docs and you can always learn more at our website, passiveincomemd.com thanks again for allowing me to be a part of your journey.

See you next time.