#166 How I Revolutionized CME Education Forever

Everyone, you know, I love bringing you the stories of amazing physicians doing really cool things outside of medicine to create a life on their own terms. This next interview is going to be with Dr. Aaron Bright. He's an emergency medicine physician and he's the CEO and founder of Hippo Education. He's a great guy and he's going to tell you some really cool things about his journey to creating this company. And also he's going to offer some inspiration along the way. I hope you enjoy. Thanks, everyone. Welcome to the Passive Income MD podcast, where we talk about creating your ideal life through multiple streams of income.

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Hey, everyone, this is going to be a really fun interview. I've got Dr. Aaron Bright. He's an emergency medicine physician out here in Los Angeles, pretty close to me, and he's the founder and CEO of Hippo Education. For those who don't know what it is, you're going to find out. It's an online medical education platform for physicians. We're going to talk all about it. Aaron, how you doing?

I am doing fantastic. Thanks for having me. Good to be here.

Yeah, I'm super excited to talk to you. I mean, I've known about Hippo Education for a while. Again, people in my world have talked about Hippo Education, but for those who don't know anything about it, can you let them know what that is exactly?

Yeah. Hippo Education, it's a. Like you said, it's a medical education company that I founded a while back now. But it's kind of. We like to say we're a little bit different than sort of the dull, vague, indistinguishable brands of CME in the universe. We kind of pride ourselves on our authenticity. That's sort of human tone. Like, if it's hard, we go, this is hard. How do we learn it? We don't go like, put on our bow tie and say that everybody knows this. And then we're sort of tech forward and we're ridiculously addicted to quality and production and education quality. So we're just trying to do it as good as we can. It's a.

What is the format? What's the format that it's taught in mostly?

So we do everything. We've got a whole bunch of podcasts across a few specialties. We've got a whole bunch of online video courses, everything from like, you know, boot camps that onboard you onto a different specialty. So say you come out of where you're at in anesthesia, and you're like, I hate anesthesia. Now I need to go into urgent care. Well, we got to, you know, we can sort of like transition you over there. And then we have. We actually have one big live course called Essentials of Emergency Medicine that happens every year. It's been the huge ER course, but we're all over the place. We are multimedia. That's what we are.

That's awesome to hear you say it's founded a while ago, you said, when exactly in your career was that founded?

I went into emergency medicine and started out when I graduated from training at usc, where we both trained. I went into the community. I was sort of sick and tired of not having any money, and I grew up with not a lot of money. And people are like, you can go into academics and make this, or you can go into the community and make this. So I went to the community. I did about five years, went into sort of leadership and medical director stuff and sort of burned down on it, honestly. I went back to academics, and this was around 2011 or 12. And the contrast between what I realized was happening on the outside. You know, when you're in training, everybody knows this. You're in training. It's like high fives and mentors and like, good times and after work beers and the whole thing. And then when you get out in the community, at least for emergency medicine, it becomes this, like, totally lonely. You're like, I just saved this guy's life. You turn around for the high fives and no one's there. And there's like. So that was part of it. But also what goes under is the education. You go from the all it's like mentors and learning all the time to. To what I found to be kind of sad, lonely garbage in my specialty at the time. And so when I went back to usc, I realized, oh, there's a giant gap here. And we started. We just launched one of our products. It was around 2012 is our first thing came out. And we didn't. All I wanted to do is get out of night shifts, honestly, because I was hurting. And I went back to academics, where I was like, bottom of the. I went from, like, medical director extraordinaire to bottom of the wrong academic guy. And it was like a board review course we did. And it just resonated with people just because it was a little more human and we were laughing a lot and we're making fun of ourselves. So then long. Long story short, it sort of took off from there and we just got more demand. And now I don't do anything except for this. I'll work a tiny bit, but I work kind of because I want to work and keep myself together rather than because I have to.

I mean, it's such a cool story. I want to get back to when you said we just launched this thing. It was no big deal.

Like, what.

How did you, first of all, how did you know what to launch? And then how did you put that together?

Yeah, I would, I would love to give you like a story where I had this job Steve Jobs, like, genius moment. But we launched the thing. We launched because we could do it. It was a PA board review course, which still exists and is a. Is now. We. We partnered with the AAPA. So it's a. It's the board review course for PAs. It was our first product and we filmed it like in a room, like literally in a home office on Imovie. And I stayed up all night editing the thing. There's no employees. And we only did it because we knew a bunch of PAs and they were asking for it. They're like, our board reviews suck and we need to have something better. And that's honestly why we did it. Was it the smartest thing to start with? I'm not sure. Did it have any thinking behind it? Not really, but it just sort of. It was the thing we started and it wasn't easy, to be honest. It was. I was working full time. I was the medical director of the ER at that point. I was working all day and then I would come home and I would work all night, like editing dumb videos and cutting out my stupid jokes and, you know, and so it wasn't. It wasn't smooth, but in retrospect, it was a really good idea and it was a fun thing to start. And we started really slow. Like we just. I didn't know what I had until a few years later, honestly. And then it started to grow and grow and I was like, okay, now we have to focus. We got an opportunity.

I mean, who's we? When you mentioned we, there's a couple.

Of me and my team. I started out with a co founder of mine who's no longer at the company, but he was kind of a mentor of mine in training and we would sort of brainstorm stuff and then I was the executor person, so we would try to figure out what to do and he was helping us fund it and which, I mean, honestly, it didn't take much funding, but I guess he was helping us feel better about, about spending our own money on it. And then slowly, slowly we started to game. I mean, I did first few years of the company, we had one, one employee. Tom. Hi, Tom. We had Tom. Tom's still here. But now we've got, I mean, we have 50 people now. So like there's a, you know, there's a curve there. But yeah, it was just, it was just. Honestly, it's all cliche, but it's like it was super hard work. It was stressful for the family, but I was really passionate about it. I've always kind of been entrepreneurial. I've always kind of been at one of those creative types. And I, as much as I love medicine and still loved it, then I found a hard time balancing the. I think I probably chose medicine because I was like the security. Just from your family, you grew up a certain way. And I'm like, well, I'm going to do something where you can't lose your job. And I loved it. But it didn't really scratch that creative itch. It didn't scratch that entrepreneurial itch. So I had always been thinking about it. So I was just kind of waiting for my, for my time.

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Back to the show. Yeah. So you start that PA course. Like how did you figure out how to do the marketing for it to get it out to people? Like, how did that come about?

Yeah. Another like it sounds in retrospect smarter than it was, but we did it scrappy. I mean, at the time I just started calling places. I started calling PA schools. I would go visit PA schools. I had some PA friends and we were sort of doing this thing at the time when, you know, social media was a little bit less sophisticated, but I was using that, to be honest. We focused, and I'm not sure how this, you know, how this comes across to the people that are striving to do a similar thing, but we focused on product. I didn't even call it product then. I didn't know what that meant. But I focused on the thing we were making and making it as good as humanly possible and something we're really proud of. And luckily, I think there's a lot of luck involved. But I think luckily it was fitting a niche and I was scratching my own itch, and it all worked out, and people actually came to it. So for many years, even now, our biggest source of marketing is just Frank likes it. And Frank told this person and this person and this person, which is great because those are real customers. But we were not sophisticated about the marketing. Not like we are now. Even now. We could do more, but before, it was kind of like, well, if it's really awesome, we're so cool if you want to come find us. It was like this total hubris insanity, which I don't subscribe to anymore. But honestly, that's how it started.

Oh, it obviously worked for you back then. I mean, you had the PA course. And what did you guys build next?

We put a bunch of podcasts together. We put a podcast for family medicine, a primary care podcast, and pediatrics and urgent care at the same time, and those had the same resonance with people. We did an ER board review course. And then now, I mean, we must have 30, 40 things out there that are active products. Some of them are big and some of them are small. But even now, we continue to do things in a way where we go, what do people need out there? What do they deserve? Right? We look into a place where, like, boy, that really sucks. What those guys have to do at this point and if, can we do a great job at it? Do we have the people that do a great job at it? And then we'll put it out there. That way we can be proud that everything we do is awesome, versus, everybody knows there's some big companies in the world where they cover every medical specialty in the world with their education, but, you know, like, well, they're great in anesthesia. They really suck at primary care. Like, we don't want to have stuff out there that sucks. We don't want to just like, sort of, you know, build for the. For the. You know, for the sense of being bigger, you know, so, but yeah, now it's. Now it's diverse. Now it's like, if you go to the website, it's, you know, click on more education. It's like there's like this giant thing, and we're still growing super fast. I mean, the bottom line is I think people deserve better in the whole medical education space. We are so busy as clinicians, like, heads down, talking to patients, as we should be, that there's not a lot of. I feel like there's a little bit of apathy. You look out there and you're like, oh, what can I do for my cme? Or like, well, it all sucks, I guess. CME sucks. I'll just get my. I'll get my hours, you know. And so we're trying to fill this void where at least in my life, it was like I wanted to be inspired by it. I wanted to look forward to it, I wanted to be proud of. I wanted to remind me that I'm proud of what I do. I wanted it to not make me feel so lonely all the time. So that's what we're still doing.

I mean, you mentioned that you wanted to get rid of knights. This was an entrepreneurial type thing. When did it actually start to impact how much you worked in the er?

Oh, that's a good question. It was a few years, at least. And I remember the torture of thinking to myself, I'm on this path and I'm an academic. So in academics, it's like military ranking, right? I'm going to go from assistant professor to associate. And. And there was a point, and it was before it was totally responsible to do, but there was a point probably three years in, where I'm like, I can't do justice to what I'm building here unless I back off some of these shifts. And then I started buying shifts. I'd be like, hey, can you please dig in? And that worked for a little while, then it started to get weird. And then I said, okay, I got to go part time. And so I sort of went small part time, then big part time. And then eventually, I think I left USC about five years ago, something like that, completely, because I just couldn't support myself doing both of them. I loved academics and I loved being around the residents and teaching and all that stuff. And maybe someday I'll go back to that. But at this point, our mission here at the company now is like, we're looking to empower the people of healthcare to. To, you know, our mission actually is to learn, grow and thrive, right? So I'm touching a lot of lives. I'm no longer like covered in blood every day and, but, you know, but I'm, but I'm, I'm touching a lot of lives. I think it's important. We're super mission driven and it's been, you know, long story longer. It's been great, it's been, it's really rewarding. Even though I'm not right there on the patients anymore. And I do miss it once in a while. I've never missed like that feeling at 3:30 in the morning when you would lie down into a cockroach infested corner if you could just to take a nap, you know, I don't miss that part.

I have a question for you. You were in academics when you were building a lot of this. I think you might have come into it with it. But how did that work out? Working with your academic department and having this other business on the side. Was there ever an issue?

You know, there wasn't really. Although I thought about it a lot and I was thinking if I had, if I had, I mean, you always ought to be careful. And I was super transparent about it and I said this is what, this is what I'm doing. It's one of the things that stopped me from taking that sort of full time academic track because then we're associated with the university and then your standard contract is like from now on everything I own is yours. I never had an original thought and you can tweak that if you have some power, but I had no power. And so I basically decided at that point, as you're reminding me, it's one of the reasons why I shifted is that it was either go all in like that as an employee level or I could stay as a contractor. And nobody had any control over me. And so, but it wasn't a problem because I work with awesome people and USC is a pretty awesome place to work in terms of it's scrappy everywhere, you're helping a poor population out there. And so I don't know, it's looser. But if I was at like, you know, Ivy League hospital number one, I don't know if it would have been so easy. And you got to be super careful about that because I have seeing people get in trouble, it's the one thing that makes it weird to be a doctor and a entrepreneur is that balance. Because there's like this, there's this moment where you're not sure if you can be doing both. Otherwise being a doc sets you up for almost every kind of success because you've got something to fall back on. It's like, I didn't mortgage my house. You know, all of that was. Was important. You know, did it feel like a.

Risk to you when you were doing this business and then you do.

It felt like a risk to me. In retrospect, I feel like a pansy. I'm not sure it was a risk. I mean, like, the worst thing that happened, people tell me that I'm like, hey, I mean, this is really important to me. Like, what's the worst thing you do? You go back and be a doctor. Like, boo hoo. So there's a. But I felt like it was a risk because we're all fine. We're all sort of bumbling along our own path to, you know, to doing something that we want to do. And I was, you know, I could have done an academic career and been super happy and I had to put it on pause. And then you never know what you can go back to and what you can't. So, yeah, it felt like a risk. It felt like a risk. It didn't stop feeling like a risk for a long time actually, until it got like, stable enough that I was able to hire help. And, you know, now I get to these kind of like the vision guy instead of just the person doing all the labor, which is a huge difference. And so much better. Like, I'm hiring people so much better than me to do stuff that I used to do on my own. It's one of the things you learn if you are a doc and you end up being in business or doing something entrepreneurial or doing anything, even the stuff that you're, you know, one man show stuff talking about on your website where, you know, somebody's investing in real estate or doing whatever you, you. There is something that we miss, I think, in medical training, which is being part of a bigger team, because I felt like everything in medicine is like, it's me. The whole buck stops with me. I'm responsible. I'm putting in the chest tube. It's me, right? And in business and in my company, and I think larger groups, you learn how much more you can get accomplished with like a, like a stellar team. And it's shocking. And all of the docs that come in to Hippo at this point have a small learning curve where the first thing they want to do is work all night, all the time, super hard, which is amazing. And then you're like, you know, you could probably push that off on this other Department. And they're like, no, no, it's all, I got it, I got it, I got it. Cause we're used to lifting everything. There's lots of lessons, I think, in life to learn outside of medicine, which is weird. Cause you don't think about that because medicine's your whole life when you're doing it. I think there's a lot to be said for doing. We don't live that long. There's a lot to be said for trusting yourself and doing some stuff that's different. Yeah.

I mean, all along the way, it sounds like you were figuring things out. Was there ever a point where you felt almost at a disadvantage for being a physician? Now you're lucky that you went to a business that sounds like you had to be a physician or really helped to be a physician. Yeah, like, I'd love to hear a little bit about that. Whether the disadvantages, maybe the advantages of being a physician and being an entrepreneur.

I think almost all of it just like preface it by saying almost all of us in advantage. There's very few. I mean, like, if you're not a physician, stop listening. There's a. There's very few things. I think I can think of a few, but very few of them where you work as hard as you do when you're training to be a physician. I mean, it's getting different in different generations, but it's still impossibly hard from the day you start to the day you get out. Right. That trend, that kind of work ethic translates really well into everything, honestly, like everything else, and you wouldn't even believe it, but everything else. It's rare to have an opportunity to work that hard and execute things the way that you're used to doing it as a medical person and take that responsibility and all that. So I think most of the most. Most of the time, I think of it as a big positive. The only thing that comes up to me as a negative is that, interestingly, in the world of finance, if you were looking for funding and things like that, the world of finance doesn't trust physician entrepreneurs that much because they find us to be slightly ego driven and what have you. So whether that's true or not, I don't know. But I have run into a few times where we'd be talking to people and they said, oh, we really like what you're doing. Is there anybody else that's there? Who else is running the business with you? And they're like, oh, it's just me. And they'd be like, well, you know, we worked with this doctor, that doctor, and that doctor didn't work out very well. So there's a weird. You know, there's a weird. Sometimes it's a weird outlook in finance, to working with physicians. But who. I mean, that's a small one.

Hopefully you're changing that.

So I think in general, I think it's been good all the time. And in fact, it's something, you know, as much as you're proud of what you do, and me in medicine, I think other people see that it's kind of more of a advantage than a crutch. And so, yeah, I can't think anything really, that went south because I was.

A doc, you know, having this on the side all throughout while working full time. How do you think that impacted your life in medicine? Because so many people today, when they're working and they're getting grinding, there's that aspect where, you know, you hear about burnout, you hear about all these type of things, but it's not like you. You hear you did pretty well during that period.

Yeah, I mean, I think I did. But to ask my wife if I really did, eventually I was going to burn out. Like, I love emergency medicine. I love medicine. I really, really love it. And I think people who we are serving now are like. Like it or not, like, these are the heroes. I mean, it's so obvious now with COVID right? But even before, you know, not every doctor is the perfect human being. And some people have got, you know, like, love to heal on their Porsche and drive them down the freeway, right? We don't, you know, we don't need that. But the. But society has kind of chosen us as the people that are fighting disease. They're, like, fighting this good fight. They're fighting suffering. And. And so I feel like we shouldn't let them burn out if we can possibly help it. But I was going to burn out just because the system was too heavy for me. Like, I'm not one of those people who can forget about the waiting room while I'm working as fast as I can, taking care of the five heart attacks. I'm worried about the waiting room. I'm stressed out that they're all pissed off out there. I'm like, I just. It was all in my brain, and I was good at it, and I was fast and everything, but I wasn't. I could feel it hardening my arteries. You know, I could feel the cortisol, and I knew I was going to burn out at some point. And so I Think I handled it pretty well during the transition, but I knew I wanted to get down to a point where I could survive it. And I'm amazed by people who do it for 40 years and survive and it wasn't me, to be honest. Like, I couldn't do it the way I wanted to do it. And that was part of it. I think when you're doing both, yeah, you got a pretty good potential for burnout. But on the other hand, I knew that I was actively working to create something that I was going to be really proud of and it has some long term value. And so in a weird way, you could probably think of it, but I don't know how to describe it. In a weird way, it made it a little easier to be doing the night shifts and what had you. I'm like, I'm doing this for a reason. I'm not just, I'm not just wallowing in it, you know what I mean? And so, yeah, it wasn't as bad as it sounds. That being said, I don't ever want to do that again. So.

Okay, now looking back, you mentioned some of them, but what were some of the other big challenges that you really encountered along the way, especially on this entrepreneurial journey?

Yeah, I mean, there's a, there's kind of a few standard ones. Right. I feel like, you know, there's this fear of failure for us, I think, because it's a sort of. You're a high achieving medicine person. There's always a fear of the unknown and giving up the stability and the safety of being, you know, whatever you're doing. You know, like I said, I'm choosing medicine is a really secure path. Right. Doing something else doesn't feel that secure. I love the idea of taking baby steps into it and sort of figuring out what you want to do. But if you really know what you want to do, then I think you do it. Like, I don't think that I've ever made a big transition in my career and I've had, I think I've had three. I had, you know, the community emergency medicine, then I had medical director stuff and leadership there, then back to academics and then into this entrepreneurial side. And every time it was scary and every time it's been massively positive, but it's that it's the fear of the unknown. It's sort of like you realize in, in something you're creating yourself like a business or a, or, or however you want to make your. Even if it's like a side hustle, there's always unknown. There's luck. We're not used to luck in medicine, right? Like, we don't. At least not maybe, at least it's facilitated luck. But it's like you don't, you don't just roll the dice when you're doing the resuscitation. Right. And then I think then I was worried about whether I needed a partner, whether I could get new team members. It's like it's a brand new thing. But they all were, in a certain sense, you could feel yourself growing the whole time. And I was doing something that I was, that I was trying to do the right thing. I was really trying to do the right thing. And if I, if I stayed true to my values, it all seemed to be okay, even though all those challenges are totally true. But there is no challenge that, that I feel like makes it not worth doing the thing that you want to do. I mean, you've probably got an exact same story. There's no, there's no way that not trying something is. You're going to look back on that and be like, oh, that was a good idea to like play it safe and do whatever. Especially when we're who we are and you've got, you do have medicine to fall back on. What's the worst thing that could possibly happen if you back off for a minute and you realize three years later, like, I don't like that. I like just doing shifts better. Fine. You know, like, that sounds awesome. So, so yeah, it's challenging, but it's not even worth thinking about all the challenges. Cause you're going to get through them. They come at you when they come at you. You can't plan for a lot of them. You know, you do your best. And like I said, the, your inherent skills having got to where you've gotten in medicine, are just, are like invaluable and they translate like across everything.

So, yeah, no, that's awesome. I know. I totally am in agreement with you. I think your story is super powerful. I mean, what does your life look like now and where's it going? I mean, you mentioned right now you're pretty much full time here, but where's it going in the next five years or so?

That's a great question. So now I've built something that not only am I enjoying and I have a sense of control, but I've sort of, I've fine tuned my role here to be the stuff that I'm pretty good at, which is like, so which amazing. Like, I feel like I'm not working right. And they probably feel like I'm not working too. But I feel like I'm able to do the stuff that I enjoy the most, which is looking out and seeing where the ship should go and looking at the world and seeing how can we better serve these people. And keeping my own, you know, keeping myself straight, like I want to do something that I'm proud of. It's not about making a ton of money or doing anything else. So the next few years is me trying to handle the reins of this company and the growing reins and sort of seeing where we head from here. Because now that we've got what we've got, we have a footprint and all of us, we hire and fire people based on these values and our mission. And so we all want to make a bigger footprint and do the next thing. So what does that mean? Does that mean we grow faster, we grow into this different and we do all these specialties. There's tons of options, but they're so creative and they're so fun that for the short term, short term meaning in the next few years, I think we're just doing what we're doing what we're doing already and trying to do more of it. My life is phenomenal. Like, I get up at, I wake up at 6 and try to surf every time there's surf. And I like, I mean, and I try to make that be the case for the people that work here too. I want them to have the mission and the balance and the whole thing because that at the end of the day pumps out better stuff for our people, for our, for our users, for our medical people. Like, if you said, like, what's, you know, I mean, to be honest, if you look at it objectively, my life does not suck. And so there's like, what would I change? I probably wouldn't change anything, but I am hoping to make a significantly larger impact in the next, you know, five years. I want to look back five years from now and be like, oh my God, look how far we've come. And I want to continue to feel awesome about it, you know?

Yeah, that's great. I have no doubt you'll get there. I mean, with your drive and your mission, where can people find out more about you, about the company and find that online?

Yeah, I mean, if you're, we're, we're, we're actively making stuff for brand new specialties and stuff. Like we have nothing in anesthesia, which is our, literally, it's our next thing that we want to check Out. But you can go to Hippo Ed. Hippo is in Hippocrates. Not like a land dwelling mammal. Hippo ed.com. and you can just see all the stuff we're doing and take a look at what's on the. What's in the future. And you know that's always. But you'll find a blog from me there that it's hopelessly egomaniacal and you know all of our social media and Twitter stuff we're trying to stick around, go there first. Hippoed.com and then you can find everything you're looking for.

Oh, it's such an awesome story. Like congrats on all of your success. It's awesome what you guys are doing and obviously that space. Whenever I think about cma. Oh yeah. It's more like, I just got to get this done right.

Yeah.

And so I think you guys are changing that. And so that's what we've heard about you. We'll look for that anesthesia soon. Um, before I let you go, what's your number one tip? I mean, you've given so many great tips already, but what's your number one tip for someone who is following your footsteps?

Yeah, I think it's a, I think honestly it's a reiteration of like, well, I guess there's two things. So I still think it's just do it. Like it's, it's cliche and it sometimes seems scary. But if you've got an idea of where you want to go, even if your idea is, look, I need to survive these shifts, I need to survive this practice, I need to back off a little bit. Not only has that worked for me and been rewarding and I'm sure worked for you, but lots of the people that work for me and with me at Hippo have, have come to Hippo to do that. There's so many ways to do it. So just find out what you're like. It's got to be something that you love. Like your next step has to be something that's, that's got some value to you almost existentially. And then I would say, and this is going to sound goofy, but if you're with me, you'll understand. You have to enjoy the path. Because the one pitfall of entrepreneurship is that you're always thinking about the future. Like, oh, it'll be better when I've got this funding or it's going to be better and I put this out. It's going to be better if you don't Sort of. I have to meditate myself into staying in the present. Right? I have to like literally have a meditation practice to be like just right now, dude, like this. That's going to come tomorrow. And if you can find a way to let yourself enjoy the path and take the leap and try to do the thing you want to do, you were. There's like no chance it does anything but reward your life, you know? So I would say go do it. I'm not kidding and I'm not a motivational speaker. Just go do it. You can do it. Being a doctor as a giant leg up and then, you know, try our best to enjoy the path.

This has been so awesome. I'm sure people are going to love this. Thanks for your time. Congrats on all your success again and I can't wait to see where this goes.

Yeah, me too. Me too.

So anyways, let's talk again soon and best of luck. Okay, awesome.

Thanks so much.

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