#17 How to Achieve Financial Freedom Through Cash flowing Real Estate ft. Letizia Alto, MD

Welcome to the Passive Income MD Podcast where we talk about creating your ideal life through multiple streams of income. I'm your host Peter Kim. If you enjoy hearing about this stuff, make sure to hit subscribe so I can bring it to you every week. Now let's get on with the show.

Hey everyone.

I hope you're having an amazing week. I know I am. We're in the midst of the Leverage and Growth virtual summit for physicians. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, it is a summit, a completely online summit where I interviewed 50 plus physicians about how they were able to create income streams outside of traditional medicine. It's been really fun hearing these stories, but it's been even more fun interacting with everybody, especially attendees of the summit in our Facebook group. So please come enjoy the content. It is absolutely free to sign up. It's@leverageandgrowth.com Again leverage and growth.com. hope to see you there. There's plenty of content for week two. You don't worry you missed some of it, but you don't have to miss all of it. And check it out for sure. Today's podcast is actually an interview from the Virtual summit and it's my interview with Dr. Letizia Alto. She is a hospitalist and she's also the co founder of the wildly popular blog Semi Retired MD and she's going to be speaking about how she achieved financial freedom through cash flowing real estate and they were able to do it in a very, very quick way. And she's going to be sharing some strategies that she used to do that along with her husband. And if it's something you're interested in learning more about, they also have a free mini course which is the free four day jumpstart to investing in real estate that you have to check out. We put a link also in the show notes for this. Please take a look at it. It's absolutely free and hope you enjoy that course. Well enjoy this interview and have a great week. Hey everyone, we have a real treat today. We have Dr. Letizia Alto. She's a family medicine physician up in the state of Washington, but she's also well known for her expertise when it comes to real estate, especially when having direct ownership of properties. She can be found on her blog, SemiretiredMD. She's part of a dynamic duo there with her husband and many of you may know her, but some of you who are learning about her for the first time. I'm gonna try to get as much information as I can out of her today. About how to create financial freedom using rental properties and some of the amazing benefits not only when it comes to cash flow, but also some of the amazing benefits when it comes to saving on taxes. So thanks for being here today, Leticia. Thank you so much.

Thanks, Peter, for the kind introduction.

Yeah, so excited to have you here. I mean, since the time I've known you, you guys like have been so passionate about talking about rental properties and something that you guys can't help talking about. I think because you're so passionate about it, it just spills out. But I've also seen the amazing benefits it's had for you. I'd love to kind of just start at the beginning of your journey. How did you guys get into it?

So that's a great question. My husband started investing in real estate in 2001, but he more like appreciation plays, so we now consider that gambling. And can you explain appreciation plays real.

Quick what that means?

So what he was doing was he was buying raw land and he was turning it over and selling it six months later for 100 or $200,000 profit. And so this raw land didn't make him cash flow. And he was also doing very similar things with like high value condos in Seattle, type 8 properties that were renting for like 2, 3, 4,000amonth. He was buying them and then hoping to turn them over several months later for a higher profit. So he got caught in the 2008 downturn, which is why this is so relevant, because going into a downturn right now, it's very similar kind of atmosphere. And so, yeah, he was buying properties that didn't cash flow. And so when we got together, he had been in this situation where he was working, paying $26,000 in mortgages every single month, like working 26 days a month as a hospitalist had gotten rid of a lot of his properties. Although we sold his last piece of raw land about two years ago, and we sold it for I think $45,000. And he had bought it 13 years before at $150,000. So that gives you an idea of like what the crash did to him. And so when we got together, we actually didn't. I mean, we both loved real estate, but we didn't think that we were going to invest. We didn't really talk about it until this fateful trip that we took in New Zealand in 2014. I read rich dad, Poor dad and got really excited. And then we read it out loud together. And then at that point we decided we were changing everything. We were Going to be real estate investors.

Well, what does your life look like at that time? You were working, he was working. And what did that do for your family life and that sort of thing?

So we were both working a lot. We were working more than full time. He was working full time as a hospitalist and then he had a startup company and. And I was working as a hospitalist. I was picking up residency shifts because I wanted to keep up my family medicine and my OB skills. And then I was also helping with his startup. So our lives were pretty crazy. We were renting a house at that point where we were living in and we were actually looking to buy a residence. So we had a little cash that we had saved up. We were going to buy a primary residence. But then when we came back from that trip from New Zealand, completely scrapped those plans. We told our agent, we're real estate investors now, we're going to rent for long term, not buy a property, a primary residence, but actually start renting. And then we just took all of our money and put it into buying cash flowing properties.

So what was that very first purchase for you guys?

So we actually almost bought two properties back to back. We bought two duplexes down in Auburn, Washington which is about 45 minutes south of Seattle. Our first one was $176,000 duplex. I think at the time it was renting for like 750 aside. And we could immediately see there was a lot of hidden value is what we call it, which was under market rents. We had a property manager who told us yeah, this should be renting for more like 900 aside. And so there was a huge spread there that we knew we could make the property cash flow. And then we actually bought another property in Auburn in the city as well, a couple miles away that was a duplex and also had a lot of hidden value.

Well how did you know that that was a good deal? I mean how did you get started on that? Did you come into it knowing? Did that book teach you how to do some of the calculations or like where did you learn how to do that stuff?

So Rich Dad, Poor dad is more of an inspiration book and I would highly suggest anyone thinking about real estate read it because it really makes you see that you need to be an investor and not an employee. Employees, trades, time for money. So once you come out of that book you really understand you want to be an investor, but you don't really know how. What Kenji and I had done was actually read several other books during our trip in New Zealand because we had the time. One of them was millionaire real estate investor by Gary Keller, who is the owner of Keller Williams. And so we had a sense of what we were doing. We had created our own cash on cash calculator actually at that point out of the book. But we didn't really have a whole lot of on the ground experience. And so luckily we had teamed up with a agent who owned her own properties and so she was helpful in guiding us. But you know, I'd say a lot of the stuff that we've now implemented we learned within about a year of starting out. And it was just, I mean a bit of it was trial and error and a bit of it was just asking around, talking to the right people. And then of course having people who were also investing in real estate who could mentor us was really, really helpful.

I want to ask about that agent relationship. So when you first came back from that trip, you're like, okay, we want to be real estate investors. So like what was the next step? It sounds like you did a little bit more reading, but then you just call a random agent to say, hey, we want to look or how did you actually make that connection? I guess that first step.

Yeah, so we had our primary residence agent help us try to find a rental property for a couple months. And of course he didn't know what he was doing and we had just read books and we're kind of of the mindset, you know, put down ridiculously low offers. I mean the worst that's going to happen is they're going to say no. And so it wasn't a great, we weren't a great team, to be honest. We didn't have a whole lot of success. How we found our investor agent. An investor agent is very different than an agent who helps you buy a primary residence. And the real difference is they understand the numbers, they have experience in the area, so they have the right connections. Then they also have access to off market deals which are the deals that never show up on the mls, never show up in public, but are more like they'll get them from the seller directly or they'll get it from another agent. So that's what you're looking for with an investor agent. We found our investor agent actually from a property management company and they said, hey, we know this agent who owns their own property. Which is really key when you're looking for an investor agent. And who was like one of the 30 under 30, like I don't know, some sort of award she won. And so when we talked to her, it was like immediately we could tell she knew what she was doing. We still ended up using our own cash on cash calculator whenever we found deals. And that's really important thing for people to know is you should always do your own numbers. Even if you have the best agent in the world, don't trust their numbers because, you know, there are holes in other agents experience. And then also they want the property to look the best it can oftentimes. And so you really want to do your own numbers and understand what you're getting into and not just trust other people to tell you when something's a good deal.

Awesome. So how much were you. Do you remember around how much you had to put down for those properties?

Approximately, yeah. At the time it was 20%, and now it's 25%. So our original, our first deal was 176,000. So we put in less than 40,000 on that. We didn't fix that one up right away. We just knew it was under market rent. So we put in renters at higher market rents. But about two years later, we actually ended up fixing up the property and I think putting an additional 40, 45,000 into it. And that's what really bumped the rents even a couple hundred dollars more. And I think right now they're renting for like 1,150 aside.

Wow. So the goal with those properties, again, was for you is for cash flow, right?

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because appreciation is icing on the cake. It's great if a property has market appreciation and the whole area goes up in value and this property. Great, that's awesome. But what you really want is cash flow. And the reason is because every single month, that's a source of income coming into you that frees you to not be what Tony Robbins calls the dancing bear, which is trading time for money at your job. So what we really wanted was we actually wanted to replace both our clinical incomes with this source of cash flow so that we could work however we wanted in medicine.

I mean, that's amazing. Do you think it's something that, again, is something that any physician can ultimately access, or do you feel like they need to have like a business mindset or some business training or and that sort of thing, or who's able to do this?

I guess I think everyone can do this. It's not med school hard. It's like the systems are already created, which is pretty awesome because people have been buying rentals and renting them out for hundreds of years at this point. So there are property managers, there's the whole system created for you. And then also everybody needs a home, right? Everybody. So you have built in customers who you don't have to educate. So I think that that makes one of the strength of rental real estate. And the other thing I really like is I feel like you can work full time even and do this on the side, and then eventually as your cash flow pipeline builds up, you can cut back at work. And so it's not something that you have to quit your job for and immediately gung ho if you don't want to. You can actually build it up like you have right on the side. And then eventually it becomes such a significant source of income you're able to cut back in medicine if you want to do that.

Gotcha. So let's go through some of the numbers real quick in terms of this cash flow. So when you have a property like that, like you know the 160,000, it was a duplex, like about how much cash flow can it, like I guess when it first starts and then how can that grow? I think want to give people an idea, a picture of what that might look like to have like one of those properties under the belt.

Yeah. The way I think about it is my duplexes will often bring in somewhere between 5 and $10,000, usually a year. What we aim for is 10% cash on cash. And so with that duplex, I just gave you an example on if we put in $40,000 in a down payment, then it should at minimum cash flow about 4,000 a year after I pay all the expenses. So it's not a huge amount. When you look at it that way, you. But then you have to add in the fact that your renters are paying down your mortgage for you. So that's an additional benefit. You've got rental appreciation, which is over time you increase rents. You've got property market appreciation, which is again icing on the cake if it happens. And then you have something called forced appreciation, which is what you access to increase the value of the property when you rehab it, or when you increase the rents to market rents every dollar that you're increasing rents over time, or increasing the net operating income of a property by increasing what it brings in or decreasing expenses, you're actually increasing the value of the property disproportionately. And so that's actually a system we learned about a year in, we realized, oh my goodness, we have to be doing rehabs on our properties and increasing the value of them and increasing Our cash flow and then being able to use that money, taking a cash out refi and buying another property. I know that was a lot.

No, gotcha. So that's like a basically like rinse and repeat type thing, right? You do it. One property itself, whether it gets 4,000, 5,000, obviously that won't necessarily. I mean it's great, right? I mean that's stuff that you weren't necessarily have to be in the hospital for. So I'm sure that that's amazing. But over time you get more and more and more and that continues to create a bigger, bigger dent. So how long do you think it takes or could take for someone like when they start along this journey, you know, how long do you think it could take for them to ultimately replace their physician income? Again, this varies for everyone depending on the property and this sort of thing. But what kind of expectation can people have for that?

So I unfortunately I'm going to say it varies for everyone. Right. Because I think you could start out with a lot of money and you could get there really fast. Okay. With minimal effort. You could buy some big properties. If you had a spouse or if you wanted to come back in medicine to claim real estate, professional taxes status, which I'm sure we'll talk about, you can get all those tax breaks and you could do this super fast. And I've seen my friends, I had a couple of friends, she's a nocturnist. And in eight months they bought 22 units and they got over 100,000 in cash flow a year and they got over 100,000 in tax savings that year. One. Okay, so that's one possibility. And these are, you know, not super expensive units. They. One of their properties was in Oklahoma city. It was 12 units like that, right. And they ended up actually using like a HELOC because they were very aggressive, they wanted to grow their wealth. Then you have people on the other end who are like don't have a lot of cash or they maybe they don't want to tap the cash that they have or maybe they're more conservative and they say, you know, I want to buy property and pay it off first before getting my next property. And the trajectory is going to be slower. So it's kind of, I think it depends on how much effort you want to put into it. Because the other option, right. Is burring brain is when you buy a property, you rehab it, rent it, and then take that money out and reuse it. And I've seen people be able to burr properties.

So can you tell that. What's that acronym again? How many B R, B R, r.

R, r. Four Rs, sometimes five. So it's buy, renovate, rent, refinance, repeat. There you go. So what you do is you buy a property that needs some work. You usually use a hard money loan, which is private funding, it's not through a traditional bank. And the reason you get that is because the property needs some work. It's not really one that a bank is going to want to lend on. And also you only need it for the short term because what you do is you renovate the property quickly, rent it up, and then get a bank to then appraise it using hopefully the income method, which is if you rent it up at a certain price, then it's going to appraise at a certain price and then you take out that money and you end up having equity in the deal but no money in the deal. And, and you can take that money and then go buy something else and do it again. And we've seen people do up to 260 of those in a year, bringing in 250,000 in cash flow just from that. Now granted, full time job. Right. And so you can have that extreme too where you put a lot of effort but you don't have much money. So I would say it really depends on how much money you have, how much effort you're willing to put in and then how willing you are to tolerate risk. Because some people want to be more conservative and some people don't.

Yeah, I think it's important to talk. You mentioned already the tax benefits and this whole real estate professional status. There are a lot of people that might have heard about it, but there's still so many people who have no idea what that means and the amazing tax benefits and how profound that can be. So can you explain a little bit about what does real estate professional status mean and how can that really benefit the physician or other high income professionals?

Okay, well, we'll take it, we'll take.

You to take it in pieces. So yeah, what does it mean? Really?

Okay, and I'll use Kenji and I as an example too when we go talk through example. So what real estate professional is, is it's a tax status that you self elect and basically you have to meet two criteria to self elect it. Number one, real estate is your primary profession, meaning that you're spending greater than 51% of your working time on real estate. So if you're working 1,000 hours as a physician, you need to work 1,001 hours in real estate. The second criteria is you have to do a minimum of 750 hours a year on real estate, 500 of which has to be on your own properties in material participation. So what that means is again, if you work a thousand hours as a physician, you got to work a thousand and one in real estate. But if you don't work a thousand hours at a physician, let's say you have a stay at home spouse. Because only one person in a couple has to meet this criteria. Let's say you have a stay at home spouse who doesn't have a job. She or he has to do a minimum of 750 hours that year in real estate, 500 of which has to be on your own properties. And so you have to own enough properties that you have roughly 10 hours a week of work on them. So that kind of work can be managing a property manager or doing the management yourself, or doing a renovation, or managing a renovation, or driving to your property to oversee something, putting properties in LLCs, like we've done a lot of that. We did all our own LLC structure ourselves. And that really racked up the hours. Yeah. So that's a tax status.

Yeah. So that's amazing. So anybody can. You said self elect. So that means that it's not necessarily you get a certificate for that or I guess you don't need to be like a real estate agent for that as well too. Right.

Just to clarify. Right, right. So a lot of people do choose to be real estate agents because it helps with the 250 hours that aren't material participation. But you don't need to be an agent at all. And it's something that you tell your CPA that you meet criteria and then if you're ever audited, you need to prove that you met criteria. So it's really smart to track your hours.

Okay, let's talk about what that can do for you in terms of like numbers, especially as a physician, because you know you are working and some of us are W2s, some of us are 1099. But what's the benefit of having real estate professional status?

Again, only one person in the couple has to have it. The benefit is if you have that status in your coupledom, you basically get to write off all the real estate losses, active losses, and then you can use those losses to shelter active income. So you might hear losses, real estate losses, and get worried like, oh, I'm losing money on real estate. But actually you can cash flow and make money on real estate. And still have losses. And how you do this is there's something called depreciation, which is the government considers your property to lose value every single year. And over 27 and a half years, fourplex, for example, the property itself, the building will go to value zero in the government's mind. Again, the property actually may have gained market value, but the government considers it to lose every year. And so with real estate professional, you can actually take those losses every year and you can use them to shelter active income. So I'm going to use Kenji and I as an example. So what we do is every year we go and buy enough property that we create enough losses using depreciation and specifically bonus depreciation, which allows you to take the first 15 years of losses in year one. And then we also do rehabs on the property to create losses that way. And so we buy enough property that we create enough losses that we shelter all of our other income. And so we pay no taxes. So we haven't paid taxes for five years.

Okay, so just to clear this up for people again, so you buy these properties, the government is able to let you write off the value of the property over time. And there's something called bonus depreciation. Is that like a always thing or is that always that first year only for that first year or is that, again, this is a time limited thing?

Great question. So bonus depreciation is something Trump put in. So it's only going to be here with us until 2023 and then it's going to start decreasing. But what it allows you to do is take the first 15 years of losses and take those the first year. So for example, we're buying, or we just bought a $3 million property the first year. So this year on our taxes, we're going to write off 770,000 in a loss due to bonus depreciation and then we're going to rehab the property. It should cost us about $250,000 and we'll write that off as a loss. So now we'll have a million dollar shelter. So we can earn up to a million dollars in other ways this year and still pay no taxes. If we don't use that million dollar shelter, it just carries over till next year and we can use it then.

Okay, that's amazing. So again, that is only made possible by having the real estate professional status. What if someone doesn't have real estate professional status? Can you explain to people like what happens with those losses?

Yeah. So if you don't have real estate professional Status all your losses. And this is all for people who make over $150,000 a year. I should clarify that for people who make under that, you can actually take some of the losses even if you don't have real estate professional and use it to shelter your other income. So for people who make over 150,000 a year but don't have real estate professional, you can use your losses to shelter your income from your real estate. So your income from your real estate, your cash flow is tax free. Now, any losses you have on top of that, they just collect as passive losses. And so you can use them if you have any passive gains. Like you could have passive gains through a syndication that sells. Right. If you made a profit, that'll be a passive gain. So you could use it to shelter that, for example.

Gotcha. Okay. But you can't offset your, like, physician income, for example.

No, it's just suspended passive losses that you carry, I mean, carry forward for years, basically.

Usually, yeah, gotcha. So that can be extremely powerful. So how quickly can somebody actually get that real estate professional status? Let's say I decided it's 2020 right now, and we're a couple months in. Is it possible that someone could get real estate professional status by the end of the year to be able to apply towards their 2020 taxes?

Absolutely. So the way to do that is to really be aggressive about getting enough property and doing enough rehabs to get the out meet the hours criteria. Sometimes that means you want to cut back in medicine as well to make sure that you're doing more hours in real estate. So for example, Kenji and I, the first year we ended up with 12 doors of real estate, I think over five buildings. And so what we did was actually have them cut back in medicine to half time. And then we were able to justify getting real estate professional tax status that first year. And so some of our students, like I mentioned, will go to places like Oklahoma City, where you can get 12 units for 600, 700,000. And so you rack up the numbers of units and the amount of work. And so you can meet real estate professional much faster than if you go to California and buy a $700,000 duplex. Right?

Yeah, gotcha. So what are some of the other resources that you've used? You mentioned a couple books. You mentioned rich dad, poor dad. You mentioned millionaire real estate investor. Are there any other resources that you've used to kind of gain the knowledge that you have besides obviously doing it?

Yeah, I mean, doing it is a big deal because you Learn a lot doing it. Obviously our blog has a ton of free content on it as well. You can go to local investor meetups and meet other real estate investors. Sometimes they're not as helpful because people are in a different situation than you. They don't have a lot of income and so they may not understand your situation and they may want to, may see you actually as like a cash option for them. Right. But it's really great if you can meet like wholesalers who are people who have deals, off market deals and other real estate investors who are similar to you at those meetups and just build yourself a really good community of people who are also doing, trying to do the same thing as you are.

Gotcha.

Okay.

Yeah, I mean, obviously you guys have your blog, you guys have a course as well that teaches people, I guess it tries to basically create a shortcut for people so they don't have to kind of go through that whole learning process themselves. I'll link to it as well here just so that people can check that out if they want. So what's the goal for you guys coming up next? Like what's your next thing?

So we're going to continue buying. I mean, we're excited about the downturn, to be honest. I mean, we may have some more vacancy, which will be a bummer, but with that comes the opportunity to get deals at much better prices. It's been hard the last several years to find really phenomenal cash flowing deals up front. Oftentimes you have to tap hidden value and find under market rents or rent garages or do all these really unique things to try to get your cash on cash up to 10%. But now we're already seeing in a lot of our students and our Facebook groups that you have a lot more power negotiating as a buyer. And so I'm really, really excited about growing our portfolio even more this year. Building up our cash flow, learning new skills and continuing to build our community. Because community is the most powerful thing. Right? Proximity is power. And so yeah, building a community of like minded physician investors is definitely one of my biggest goals and one of the most fulfilling parts of running a blog.

That's awesome. So for someone who listens to this and says, all right, I want to kind of gain that financial freedom, create those other streams of income through direct ownership of real estate, let's lay out a couple steps for them just right now to kind of wrap it up. Like first step here. What can they do?

First step is I would educate yourself, go read everything you can read and Start finding some mentors and finding a community of people who will hold you accountable.

Okay. And then after that, after that I.

Would go get yourself pre approved so that you can jump on deals. So if you are going to buy property that's up to four units, you just need a residential pre approval. And if you're going to buy something that's five units or above, you actually need a commercial lender. And what I oftentimes will suggest is a commercial broker. And so I would just start forming the relationship with either a commercial broker or go to a residential lender and get pre approved.

Okay, and then after that they just have to go find an agent as well. Is that the next step after that?

Yeah. You have to build your team and that's your insurance broker, your agent, your contractor, and the reason you want and your property manager and the reason you want your whole team is if you have a cash on cash calculator, you need to be plugging in all the numbers, all the variables, variables for all the costs before you decide if you want to buy a property. Because the more you know about that property by talking to your property manager, for example, and saying, hey, is this under market rents or should this be renting for hire? If you can plug in those numbers, you'll be able to tap that hidden value, be able to recognize a really good deal. So the next thing after you get your team together is you need to be looking at deals every single day. Just be really diligent about it so you learn your market really, really well.

That's amazing. So you've done a great job of kind of explaining to people how to kind of get there. And now based on all your experience, like what were some of the biggest challenges that you've had or something that you wish you knew at the beginning of this, that you could basically just tell somebody now and say, hey, don't make this mistake. Or here's some of the things I wish I knew. What would you kind of offer up to people?

Yeah, so I think a mistake that a lot of people make, and luckily we didn't make this actually because Kenji's mom owns her own real estate and so we've seen her make this mistake. So that helped us avoid it, is not managing the property manager. Property manager is often the weakest link in the system. And so if you don't actually watch what's going on every month or every couple months, there will be mistakes. There'll be not as aggressive pricing and rent increases all kinds of ways that you kind of Leak money if you don't manage your property manager. And so I would definitely say do that. I think another thing is we got really lucky in that we talked to a lot of different people and put together the system. But if you could go to somebody who has a system who is a high income earner who has kind of everything laid out, it's much, much, much, much faster. I think we should have done a better job networking off the bat. We just, we were always the only people we knew in our position doing it and we were just helping our friends along for many years and we didn't have people holding us to a higher level. And I think that was a mistake we made, was not looking for that.

Well, I mean, I think you guys have done a great job of creating that community through your semi retired, different Facebook groups. I've tried to do the same through mine as well. And so it's now great that we all have each other. And I think there's been this growing group of physicians that have been there to willing to support each other and help each other to kind of achieve the same goals. The cool thing is we're not competitive. We're all able to kind of all strive and help each other to get where we want to be. Right. By wrapping this up, you guys, do you have like a number one tip that you might have for people that are thinking about starting along this journey or kind of going along this?

You know, the number one tip is just to start, right? Always. That's never.

It's a theme. I think people are watching these videos will do it, but it just can't be overstated enough. But yeah, get started, right?

You have to take action, right? You can. I mean, I've been to conferences year after year and, and seen the same people show up and they still haven't taken action. And it's brutal to watch because you know that even if you make a few errors in the beginning, you learn and you're that much better the second time. And like people are so afraid of making any mistakes that they just don't do anything. And then they're stuck in this situation, you know, where their job is bad or, you know, whatever, and they have no other option, then the key here is just buying yourself options. When you have multiple sources of income like you teach, then you have the option to have the freedom to choose how you want to spend your time and how you want to spend your life. And so that freedom is worth some work.

That's amazing. Well, I want to thank you for your time. How can people reach out to you or find you if they want to learn more about this stuff?

So people can actually just reach out to me by email or Kenji, I'm Leti L E T. I retired MD. Kenji is KenjiemiretiredMD. You can certainly reach us through our semiretired MD blog as well. You can join our Facebook group. We're in there all the time answering questions and we have just an incredible community that will help anyone, even a newbie, even just go through deals. Like if you want to fill out a cash and cash calculator and bring it to the Facebook group, you will have all these trained up investors looking at that deal for you, helping you. It's pretty awesome.

That's amazing. Thanks for doing what you do and thank you for your time today. So take care. Best of luck. All right, say hi to Kenji. See ya.

Bye.

Enjoy the show. Let me know by dropping a review in the podcast app you're listening to us in. And if you haven't already, make sure to hit subscribe. Are you part of our community yet? Join thousands of physicians who are also on this journey to creating their ideal lives through multiple streams of income. You can join us on our Facebook group Passive Income Docs and you can always learn more at our website passiveincomemd.com thanks again for allowing me to be a part of your journey. See you next time.