#173 Mineral Rights: Predicting Returns, Due Diligence, and Choosing the Right Partners

Hey, everyone, we're talking to somebody that you probably have gotten to know a lot over the last couple years. This is Troy Eckert. He's the CEO and founder of Eckerd Enterprises. We're going to talk all about mineral rights today. We're going to talk about three main things, and both of us talk pretty fast. So I think we can get these things done in a short amount of time. We're going to be talking about expected returns from mineral rights, what the future outlook looks like for mineral rights, especially over the next year or two, and hopefully we'll have some time to talk about due diligence in this area, because I'm sure this is an area we're all concerned about in terms of due diligence. How do we even know we're making good investments? Who do we know who we're investing with and that sort of thing. Troy, how you doing?

I'm doing great, Peter. Thanks for having me on.

Yeah, it's great to see you. You and I just spent a little bit of time last, I think about two weekends ago, spent some time out there in Texas. I was out there. I think people want to see video of it. It might have it, me jumping in a ring with you and kind of jumping around chasing cows.

And so it's a different environment when I get a bunch of accredited investors to jump into a pin with a bunch of wild cows. That's kind of saying something right there.

Yeah, it was wild. Anyways, new experience for me. So it was a good time, but it was pretty. It was really cool talking to a lot of different investors from Eckerd. People have been partners of yours for a while and in just talking to people about mineral rights, I know people have had a lot of questions and go back to some of our previous conversations to talk about some of the nitty gritty about what they are, kind of get the basic education. I really recommend people go back, take a look at some of those interviews, both on our podcast and also on Facebook Live. But I want to talk about today, Troy. So one of the questions I get a ton is what kind of returns can I expect as an investor in mineral rights? What does that look like for someone?

Well, so I think the main thing is to start with the basis by which our company looks for minerals. And we have a simple premise. It's about a four part premise. Number one, we only want to buy minerals where we believe in our mind, there's 100% chance of preservation of capital, no loss income. So we're not buying speculative, we're not buying, maybe they'll develop. We buy only proof producing existing cash flowing minerals. We don't want to lose any money. That's number one. So this goes to the rate of return. So once that element's in place, then we ask ourselves in a alternative asset class that has ups and downs because it's a commodity price driven asset, what kind of returns do we want? Well, I only want double digit returns. So in our financial modeling, nothing that we pursue, we expect to generate less than a 10% rate of return over a five year period. So you might have 8% the first year, 17, 27%. The key is nothing we want to buy or offer to our investors should perform less than 10% per annum. Now because of that we also then add to it one other component which is the choice of who's going to develop, which is the operator, the oil company that runs the minerals. Because each company has a track record or a pattern of, of their efficiency, their well performance and their timing when they're going to go drill the wells that we want to make the income. So pure, pure historical data, we've been doing this in this particular format since the last part of 2018. We really kicked off in the beginning of 2020 with 74 portfolios currently under management. We're averaging as of the check that went out yesterday, 17.59% average return across all portfolios. Now we have portfolios we did a year or two ago. Some of them have already reached 85, 90, 100% payout and we have a lot, and they're well over 50% payout cash on cash in less than two years. The reason why it's working is that we've decided to combine producing assets with new minerals that we believe will be quickly drilled with initial fresh virgin flowing wells, which allows us to get the highest volume, which creates the highest income. So because of our proprietary modeling and the way we approach it, we believe getting a 10% return is the least we'll do. We believe that we're probably going to average cash on cash somewhere between 17 to as much as 22% cash on cash across all portfolios. So that's what we're doing economically.

I mean, obviously you can't guarantee any of that. But I'm just curious, like what is the timing of that for people who may not understand, like you make an investment, like you said, over the next five years, you're hoping for a 10, 15, 20% cash on cash returns. Does that all happen right at once? Does that get spread over time. What, why is there some variation like you mentioned? And how does it all work out?

So think about buying minerals almost like buying a basket of eggs that you're expecting to have baby chicks born. And you're saying, what do I know today? Well, today when I buy a dozen eggs, I can see that three or four about to hatch. That would be new wells that have been permitted, filed. We know they're going to be drilled. So we have a great deal of certainty that we going to see the results of those earlier permitted wells on the minerals that we've acquired. So in our cash flow model, we're looking at saying we think we're going to make 12% the first year, 27% the second year because those wells will come online with high volumes. But what we really look at is what's the true content of the minerals we've acquired. And for us in our model, we're only going to put in the model the things that we know. We know there's certain wells that are online producing the day we buy it. We know there's certain wells have been permitted and filed with intent to drill. We know there's wells that have been drilled just waiting to be completed. So that factual empirical data goes into our model. Then what we know is from realistic, the way the field is developed, the way the oil companies have developed the minerals in the past, the way they're developing now, we know that that model means there's significant upside to additional wells, additional formations they're going to add to that. So your question is, is it going to go to 27%, then tail off and go negative? How long will it last? The reality is we want to make, if we can, 100% cash on cash return on our money in five years or less. And then what we want is to have this maintained cash flow that could be 8 to 20% for the next five or six years as these wells continue to produce. But reality is, in about the fifth or sixth year, we expect additional wells to be drilled as oil companies try to bolster their supply, bolster their output, and they want to continue to develop and harvest those minerals and those reserves in the ground. So we kind of look at a five year increment because that's the empirical data we know, but we know from history we're going to see additional wells online, which means we could be 10% return in year number six and it goes right back to 27 or 30% in year number seven or eight because they're drilling more wells and since we don't pay any money, it's no holding costs, it's freed us, it's just additional exponential return on investment because now they're paid for.

And so what kind of people are actually coming to you in terms of investments? Like what are they looking for? Because something we talk about in all the things that we do, we try to talk about creating a portfolio of investments, like a basket of investments. Diversify and know why you invest in certain things to produce certain outcomes, but then create this nice diversification in terms of a portfolio. Like when someone's adding mineral rights to their portfolio, like what are they actually looking for?

Well, what we find from all of our partners is that they are looking for a hard, real piece of property. So they don't want to be in a partnership, they don't want to be in an llc. I want to own minerals because it's real estate and I want to know that they're mine. So if I'm a person who likes the benefit of long term holds and I see the long term value, I don't want to be sold out of a partnership because I'm in a private equity or the manager decides they want to get their back and they want to sell early. So they like the real tangible asset to it. They also like the fact, and I think this goes to exactly your organization and they want truly passive income. So what a lot of folks are learning is they thought passive income was being in apartments or residential or mobile home parks. Now they're getting cash calls, refinancing, they're finding out they've got operating expenses, etc. And going. It's not truly passive because there is erosion to that income as a result of all these additional costs and expenses. But with metal rights, you have no holding costs, you pay no fees, there's no management fee, there's no expenses, no capital costs, no environmental, no drilling costs. It's truly the most passive income generator there is. And this is what I think investors today are looking for. I think the baby boomers, which are all born before 1964, they're at the point in their life where I'm already rich, I'm already a millionaire. I don't want any headaches, I don't want any surprises. The younger generation after 1964, let's say all the way down to the ages of 30 years old, they're saying, I don't know what oil and gas is. I have a lot of assets to choose from. If I put minerals in my portfolio, how do I Treat that well. It goes into your real estate box. It goes into your real estate box where it's going to have variable income month to month as well, and as prices go up and down. But it's also one that has a 25 to 75 year economic life. That's great. And I do think they like the idea. They can buy it incrementally, Peter, because we've done 74 portfolios. So somebody says, oh, I'm going to put in 200,000 in minerals this year. I'll do 50,000 over four of Troy's portfolios, or I'll do 25,000 over 10. But it allows them to come and go based on capital deployment more than, hey, this is a $50 million joint venture. You got to do it now and then we're done. They can actually build a strong energy portfolio as part of their overall foundation of investments they have. So it's really kind of one of those, you can move as fast or slow as you want to.

Awesome. And I've noticed a lot of people have started to use some of their retirement accounts for that. Explain that a little bit, how that's even possible.

Well, it qualifies under a self directed ira. So what the IRS has done is said, look, if you want to go out of a traditional IRA and go into a self directed Iraq, there are certain asset classes that qualify. Well, since minerals are real estate falls into real estate investment. So you can move money out of your traditional your retirement plan, put it into a self directed ira, set up a custodian with Quest or one of the big custodial firms. Now you can use the money in your retirement to buy real estate multifamily. You can buy stocks, you can buy crypto, or you can buy mineral rights. And what a lot of partners really enjoy about mineral rights is, you know, you don't want to lose money inside of your IRA because you want it to compound without paying taxes on that interest until you finally pull it out 20, 30 years down the road. So because mineral rights do not have any expenses, they don't have any holding costs, they have no exposure to capital, it has become a perfect investment to put in a self directed ira. There's one other thing I want to mention with this. It's really important. A lot of individuals are taking a traditional IRA inside of us and they moved to a self directed ira, but they're trying to convert it to a Roth, go ahead and pay those taxes. Now the problem is nobody wants to pay taxes at 37% tax rate. But because the way minerals are treated under a third party review, you put in a half a million dollars into a self directed ira, you invested in minerals, you can get a third party report that comes back and says based on the SEC standards and the IRS's treatment of mineral rights, they can generally reassess the value and say According to those two standards in this big thick report, we think your $500,000 transfer to Roth is only worth $200,000. You just saved yourself taxes on $300,000. We had clients putting 1 million, 2, 3 million dollars last year out of their IRAs. They were getting 40 to 60% discount on the conversion to a Roth. Huge tax savings. Now we don't do that because we think the IRS wants to respect that. It's a third party that does it. So we have four or five independent people. That's what they do is do appraisals and minerals. You ask them for fifteen hundred dollars to do an appraisal and you save taxes on that huge amount of transfer. As far as the evaluation goes, it's a massive, massive tax advant Roth conversion.

Well, I didn't even know about that. Troy. We're gonna have to dig into that in a future talk for sure. Absolutely.

Really big this year too because taxes are so high, you know.

Absolutely. I think people will look forward to that. Hey everyone have a quick question for you. Are you looking for a secure and reliable long term investment strategy? Meet Eckerd Enterprises. It's a family owned and operated firm with over 35 years of experience specializing in US energy and alternative investment investments. Here at Passive Income MD you often hear me talk about the need to diversify. One of the safest investment strategies available today are mineral rights. And with Eckert Enterprises you can diversify your portfolio. Their team is committed to helping private investors like you and me identify and develop successful diversified portfolios with an average return on investment of over 24% across their portfolios. The Ecker team is dedicated to helping you build and protect your wealth through long term passive income. All of this while minimizing the risks associated with traditional investments. So check out Eckard Enterprises. If you want that great investment experience, go to eckerd enterprises.com again, that's eckerd enterprises.com thanks. And back to the show. Let's jump into the next section here. I want to talk a little bit about the future outlook for the outlook for the next couple years. Obviously everything's quite volatile out there. People are worried about everything happening with the economy. Inflation as and what the Fed has done, a lot of things have kind of taken everything for a ride right now. What do you think the future outlook is for mineral rights? And how are you guys feeling about what's going to happen, especially for over the next 23 to, you know, 2023 to 2025?

Well, that's a great question. I'm going to preface it by saying obviously I'm in the only gas business. So I, I, I feel very confident where we're going. Otherwise I stop buying minerals and I pull back and go to more of a passive, neutral position. But the truth of the matter is, Peter, is liquidity is the issue right now. So liquidity or the lack of liquidity or the shrinking liquidity is killing the oil and gas sector. They're not going to be able to drill as many wells. If you don't drill as many wells, you're going to have less supply. But yet we're now in record demand. We actually, this report came out this morning said the US had record demand for oil and gas in March of 2023. So all this pitching of alternative energy, all this pitching of solar panels and wind and EV cars is not happening. The consumer is still finding oil and gas the most efficient, cheapest fuel. So here we have this deterioration of supply. We have this increase in demand. The country is literally having to rely on 45% of imports. We are in a pure super cycle where oil and gas is going to continue to have a further imbalance between supply and demand. So for mineral owners who are above oil companies, we're above the tenants that lease the minerals that we own, we're sitting in the best position we could be in. We have a very, very high probability of increasing commodity prices. We have a very high increase in demand for our product. 100% of the US population uses our product every single day. So I'm not worried about it becoming obsolete. And we also have another factor that's as relevant today as it ever has been before, which is our oil companies are drilling as fast as they can. They cannot drill fast enough. There's no more equipment, no more drilling rigs, no more equipment. So we're seeing this head against the ceiling on production output. We can't produce anymore. And now because of lack of liquidity and tougher economics, they're actually laying down rigs drilling less, which means that spread between supply and demand is getting further, which means if you own minerals and own wells like we do, we have like 1700 wells in our portfolio. Every one of those wells could end up being one of the best assets you own the next decade, because every American needs it and there's less and less of it. So I think minerals are going to be a really good market. Now, I will add to this because of the banking crisis, because of the lack of liquidity, most of our competitors who buy minerals, they go get debt. And because they go get debt or they end up using private equity, Private equity says, well, you got to make us 10% return just to start with, because that's the cost of capital and that's inflation. Banks are saying, we're not lending to risky portfolios. And if we do, it's 10%. We don't have any debt. We pay cash. So that gives us a better buying advantage. We have a much easier time in holding. We have great returns, but instead of paying that to debt, we give all those return back to our clients. And that makes us in the driver's seat on buying minerals. And it literally has, believe it or not, it has an open Runway for us for probably the next two to three years, which I didn't think that Runway would be open. I thought the competition last year would crush prices and make it really uneconomical. It's been the opposite. This lack of liquidity is wide open the door for us.

I mean, thanks for that insight. I think it's interesting to hear about just because obviously everybody's. All the news that's coming out in terms of the, you know, the economic forecast, all that is really down, down, down for all areas of the economy, especially real estate, where I'm in. I think that opens up opportunities for a lot of us. And so if you're in that side and you're at least thinking opportunistic, wise, optimistic, being cautiously optimistic, I think there are opportunities to be had and especially in the mineral rights area as well, too. So thanks for sharing that. So another thing that I always get asked about is how do I even know this? This area is kind of foreign to me. The idea that it's. The last talk we had was about, you know, how mineral rights are essentially a form of real estate. And again, if people have not watched it, I absolutely recommend that people watch that. I thought it was a great lesson on how to kind of think about mineral rights and ownership and that sort of thing. But how do you. How do most people. How do you recommend most people figure out how to do the proper due diligence to figure out, number one, you know, what they should invest in and number two, who they should invest in and Obviously, you know, you guys are echoed. But what questions should people be asking?

Well, you and I talk about this at length both on and off our different conversations as far as whether it's just sitting around the table or on a podcast like this. But I'm going to start off with, I'm going to be super blunt with your audience. 99 out of 100 people selling oil and gas are crooks, liars or thieves. It is. And they dress up and they have these nice big websites and they talk a good game and they're third generation and all this kind of nonsense. And what I'm going to tell you is because it's a very difficult sector asset class to find out not only how it works, but how the heck you know you're getting a fair deal or good deal. It's next to impossible. And these promoters, these syndicators, they know that. So what they do is they say all the click words that make you think, oh, they sound like they're third generation oil guy and they have this big portfolio. And I'm going to put it to you simple, it is. Show me, give me your track record. Show me what you've done. Tell me you've been doing. You tell me you've been doing it for five years. When I went five years, your track, you claim your third generation. Show me your results. And then at the end of the day, I think the who is more important than the what. I want to know who you are. I want to know have you ever had a violation, do you have any cease and desist or how many lawsuits have you been in? Tell me, are you selling securities legally? Because I know there's big promoters entering, trying to enter your market right now that are paying commissions illegally. They're selling, illegal. They're selling. I've got so many people out there saying, hey, I'm looking at this deal with so and so. I go, well, how are you doing that? They don't have a broker dealer, they don't have an investment firm. See, Eckerd's a little different. We buy the minerals before you ever have a chance to invest. So we own them. They're our own assets. We take full risk of buying the minerals before we ever invite a client in. And what that means is we're one of the only sponsors of any type of asset that owns the asset 100% at risk before we ever ask the partners. So due diligence is who am I dealing with? And if they won't answer the question, I want to know every officer I want to know their antecedents, their background. I'm going to give you five questions. Ever been arrested? Do you have a current lawsuit? Do you have any violations? You have any sec? You're going to answer questions in writing because if you don't answer the very beginning of who you are, I don't care what you're selling, you know, I don't care. Then once you get comfortable, the who, because there is some good sponsors out there in energy, right? If you get the who and you're comfortable with it, then it's the what. And there's two what's typically is do you want to drill oil wells because you want the tax write offs or do you want to buy minerals where you own a smaller piece but you get every molecule and you get your share of every barrel of oil, but you never take risk. Tax write offs or I want to own it all. It's a choice. Now, we drill wells and partners drill wells because we do enjoy the tax benefits. But generally speaking, the wells we drill are in the minerals that we bought. We're drilling our own wells and our own minerals. So we're pretty comfortable that we've already selected it being the top of the line when it comes to asset choices. So it's really a due diligence where. Don't buy the story, buy the facts. Take all the smoke and mirrors and say, just tell me in fact who you are. Show me your track record. I don't care about all the rhetoric. Stay true to the course. There was a Ponzi scheme, Peter just came out last week at our conference. You probably heard about it. It was a carbon deal where these people were claiming all these tax write offs and all these benefits and dealing with major companies. I looked at it two years ago in five minutes. I said to the person, showed you. I said, that's a Ponzi scheme. It's just not real. Unfortunately, nobody listened to me. It's like a $200 million Ponzi scheme. And, and the SEC, when they filed last week, literally took verbatim when I said the pond scheme was eroded. I'm not saying I'm the smartest guy in the world, but oil and gas doesn't have to be hard. Oil and gas energy investment is a must. It should be in part of your portfolio because what it does when oil and gas does well, it offsets what doesn't do good, which is real estate and stocks. And when real estate and stocks do good, you still have your energy, so it balances. But if you're going to take the same common sense that you apply to real estate and you apply to stocks and bonds and invest, and you totally dismiss that in energy. You buy the story and the cowboys selling you an oil well, you're going to get burned 99 out of 100 times. There's no difference in real estate versus oil and gas. Ask the same question. So, Peter, you're in real estate. If I'm going to put money with you in one of your multifamily, which I am, I'm going to go, where's it at? What's it look like? What'd you pay for it? How's it look? What am I going to get? And then I'm going to assume that everything you brought me is legitimate because you gave me the answers to my who, what, where, when, why now. It's just a choice of management skills. That's really what the investor has to have. Give me the facts and then I'll decide if you and I match in personality, sponsor and investor. And that's the way it's got to work. Most investors don't do that. They love the story. Forget the story, look at the facts.

I love that. If people could just take that to heart, those key points, asking those hard questions. I think a lot of times physicians get in trouble because they don't ask those simple questions questions. In fact, they feel kind of intimidated, too. So, Troy, how do you feel as someone who's doing this when somebody asks you these questions? Do you take offense to it? How do you feel about it when somebody asks you those hard questions about show me your record. Show me what you've done. Because again, I think a lot of us, again, feel a little intimidated to do that. How do you feel about it?

I'm going to empower every one of your medical professionals that are listening to your podcast. You ready? The reason why doctors and dentists and medical professionals are preyed on by crooks, liars, cheats and thief. Because you've been trained through your college education and your medical practice to have bedside manners. Don't offend. You got all kinds of patients that come to you. You got cranky, old, young, fat, skinny, every, every group you can think of. And your job is to be absolutely as neutral as you can be. I just had my mom pass away as, you know, so everybody in there was super awesome in that room. Super awesome icu. But they were all neutral. They were just like, we're not going to tell you she's going to pass or not. It's Neutral, Right. All these crooks and liars and cheats and thieves count on that. They count on that. They're not going to answer all your questions because you're not going to push the envelope. No, no. You answered three out of five, but I need the other two. You'll be like, well, he tried. He seems like a nice guy. I'm not making fun of doctors and medical professionals, but you're not really aggressive individuals. You're very passive and patient. And the problem is they know that. So for me, when I look at being asked questions, it's not the question you ask, it's how you ask. So I'll have somebody says, so, Troy, I'm in three other deals, and these guys are crooks and liars and thieves. You tell me how come you're not a crook, liar, cheating, thief. And I go, huh? So you're saying I'm guilty, trying to prove I'm innocent. See, that's not a good way to ask a question. What you should say in this way is, troy, I really want to think about being a partner. I got a couple of points of comfort I'm not comfortable with yet. I want to see your tracker. I want to see your names. If you can do that, that is going to magnetize me to want to listen to your story and want to invest me. If you can't provide that, I'm not upset. I'm just going to have to take you off my list because that's my number one box. I check. Will you provide me what I need? And, Peter, I just did this last night. There's a capital group that one of my partners in said, hey, Troy, can you check it out? Now, I got to tell you, I love these guys, the way they respond. I said, here's what I'm asking. Track record, your SEC filings, et cetera, et cetera. I don't see I have access to that. If you can provide that, I'm very interested. First thing this morning. Am, Bam. Here's everything I asked for on that email. What's it tell me? Nothing to hide. Totally transparent. Totally attracted me to make the investment. If I hadn't got the response, I'd have said, number one box. No good. I don't need to hear anything else about your story. I'm done. I do not get mad when I'm asked questions. In fact, if you don't ask me questions, it bothers me more. You and I have known each other a couple of years. The questions you ask or your listeners ask are the most Important questions. I want to be, be a relationship partner. I'm not an investor. I'm not going to throw some money and see how it works. I want to decide who I'm going to invest with, what category of asset, and I want to be in that space. I want to invest in some of your projects, Peter, not one time. I want to be a continual partner with you for as long as I can because I like you and I trust your team. So I'm looking for people to ask those tough questions because it tells me I got a smart investor. I want the smartest investor I can get. The ones who want to know the details, that want to come to my conference, come to your conference. And so that way I can look them in the eye and go, you truly want to be successful. And know, because it's the ignorant partners, it's those who don't ask questions who go, oh my God, it didn't happen. Well, who do I blame for that? Well, that's the ones who are going to be your headaches down the road. So I just put this out to your listeners. You've got to stop being so nice. It's your hard earned money and you've got to fight for that by asking those questions up front. Period. End of story. It's your money. You worked for it.

Well, I couldn't say about it any better, Troy. I think that's what we try to do with our community, empower people, have them ask the hard questions. Sometimes we script these things out and people know they're scripted out, but at least asking those questions, they get in the habit. And again, it's your hard earned money. You're working all those hours, those weekends, those nights. Make sure that they answer your question. You have, you have the absolute choice to invest with whoever you want. But, Troy, I really appreciate this. I have a question for you. I know you've got some deals that are coming up. I think people really like to hear, like, what are some of these deals look like? I know you've got a big deal coming up. Just kind of give us some basic details so people have an understanding and perspective on what these things look like.

All right, so we have a project right now that we've landed a contract on. It's the biggest deal we've ever found. We did not have it come to us. We went to the owners unsolicited and said, we know you own enormous portfolio. We don't even know how big it is. We are looking for what I would call a needle mover. We're looking for something that's going to be a significant impact. And let me tell you why it is. I'll make it short. We believe the window for minerals is going to close pretty sharp, middle of next year to the end of next year, because we think commodity prices are going to really start going higher, reflecting the supply and demand problem. So for us, we want to be like an octopus picking up bales of hay. We want to be grabbing eight hands at a time. Because right now, with lack of liquidity, there's nobody buying in the market. The problem is we're doing it 10, 20 acres of minerals at a time. We're like a shovel in the middle of a big old mine, right? So we approached a group about buying some minerals and what we found out is not only do they have a significant portfolio, they had probably one of the most balanced mineral portfolios that we could find. So we have a new project out. It's $175 million offering, the biggest one we've ever done. But in buying this portfolio, it takes what we've done for four years and triples it in size. It takes the 1600 wells and triples it in size and it'll generate 15 plus percent cash on cash return a year. It's huge. It's enormous. We only opened it up about four days ago. We're over 50% already committed in less than four days. Because here's why, when you look at risk, it virtually has no risk. When you look at return, it already has a third of the wells producing 8 to 10% cash on cash without any new wells. So we know it's going to generate that 15%. But here's the real kicker for this project, because it has so much involved in it for the next 10 years, even if they were to develop 4 or 5,000 acres at a time, we've got 10 to 15 years of brand new development. So this is one of those gifts that just keeps on giving because we have so much new activation and income that's going to result. So to answer your question, we still have our normal smaller portfolios, 5 or 10 million every month. That's for investors who can put in smaller amounts, you know, 25, 50,000. This bigger project is a $250,000 minimum investment. We're about half funded. I fully expect us to be fully funded in the next two or three weeks. But this one is truly a needle mover. It truly is a substantial foundation. If you're going to be in the middle market now for new investors and New listeners, they're not going to believe that everything's the best thing since sliced bread. Every new deal is the next best deal. But I can tell you this company, we're probably putting in close to 20/4 million dollars of our own money in this deal and, and we're fully exposed, at risk. It's that good a deal that we took such a big position because it's that rare, rare opportunity where you get that extraordinary asset base and not just ordinary. So that's where we're at.

Awesome. Well, good luck with that, Troy. I know a lot of our, you know, a lot of our listeners are going to be really, really interested in finding out more about that opportunity, finding out more about you guys getting educated on this. Where's a great place for people to do that to find out more about you guys and your website?

Well, main thing is there's two things I would tell you. If you're a brand new partner, you've never done minerals, you need to sign up to our app. We built our own internal app, it's called Eckerd Insights. You register, you sign up and then you have access to hundreds of videos. All training and education and stuff Peter and I have done before. And that just shows you how well informed you'll be by becoming a partner. Even if you never invest, it'll teach you about oil and gas and minerals. The second thing is you can go to our website which is eckerdenterprises.com and there it has all the information, the company, the other business businesses that we have. And what you're going to find is that I believe in total transparency because one, I don't have that good a memory and number two, I want to give you what I want. I don't even buy a newspaper subscription without going, hi, who, where, when, why? I don't know. That little eight year old kid is not stealing my money. I can't help it because I've been doing investments since 1985. So I look at and say, Peter, what do I need to give to somebody who has no clue how minerals are and give them at least a foundation of knowing what, what the heck the asset class is and how they can be educated. So eckerd insights, eckerdenterprise.com that's where you can go get information and decide if you want to pursue being an investor or not.

All right, Troy, thanks for this time. You know, Eckert has been a partner of ours at PIMD for a couple of years. I was an investor at Eckerd even prior to bringing them on board and introducing the people. And I've gotten the benefits of being an investor for years with them. Troy, everything you say has always been made a lot of impact on me and you've kept true to your word. But thanks for this. I really appreciate it. And yeah, I mean, let's talk again soon.

Yes sir. Thank you.

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Sa.