#180 How I Got Started in Real Estate

Welcome to the Passive Income MD Podcast where we talk about creating your ideal life through multiple streams of income. If you enjoy hearing about this stuff, make sure to hit subscribe. Now let's get on with the show. Hey everyone. Welcome to a special episode of the Passive Income MD Podcast. If you're joining us for the first time, just want to give you a warm welcome. I'm your host, Peter Kim. And today we have a real treat in store for you. Today we're taking you back to our recent conference called PIMDCON 2023, the Physician Real Estate and entrepreneurship conference. We heard from some amazing speakers and we also had the privilege of hosting some really awesome panel discussions on real estate and entrepreneurship. Today you're going to get to hear the panel discussion titled How I Got Started in Real Estate. I know this is relevant for so many of you out there, for those of you who couldn't attend or. But for those who love to relive the experience, this is your chance to dive into the inspiring stories and journeys of real estate professionals. Maybe one step, five step, 10 steps ahead of you. They'll be sharing how they got started, the challenges they faced, and some of the pivotal moments that helped shape their path into the world of real estate. This is a slightly longer episode, so I know you're gonna enjoy and get so much value from it. So let's dive right into the panel discussion, How I Got Started in Real Estate.

Invest.

Enjoy.

All right.

What makes this panel special is that these are all physicians. They're all physicians, some again at different stages of their experience, but all have, in my opinion, figured out why they're doing this and they figured out strategies to kind of get started. So I'm going to let you guys start introducing yourself. Victor, do you mind just giving us a one minute kind of introduction on who you are and a little bit about what you have right now in terms of your portfolio.

Victor. I'm Victor Mangona, radiation oncologist in Texas, private practice specialized in brain tumors and pediatric tumors. I've been investing in real estate for around eight years now. I'm SCC registered fundraiser for syndications. Invest as a limited partner, have been a general partner in syndications and own a few midterm rentals. I also have a YouTube channel, about 200 different financial videos available online. Awesome.

Does somebody might open that door? Okay, thank you. All right. Manta.

Hi everyone. I'm board certified internal medicine physician who almost a month ago, if you asked me, I would say that I've retired from medicine. But I just Started doing some peer and shifts. So I'll call myself a pure hospitalist right now. And also land investor. I have other active rental portfolio, I have notes portfolio which I keep with me as well. But basically I focus more on active land investing where we would do active buying and selling, landscaping model and we have more than 120 land while pretty much in last three years mostly in pandemic.

Yeah, awesome, thank you Jordan, how about you?

I'm Jordan Fry, I'm a full time practicing plastic surgeon. I specialize in breast and extremity reconstruction. And my wife and I have been investing about since 2020. So like three, almost four years now. We have eight properties now we invest, if you look at the list, in one of the worst markets in the world, Buffalo, New York. But we've found a very successful niche there. And so we're eight properties and we cash flow about 11,000amonth from those properties. Awesome. Christina. Hey everyone.

Thank you Peter for inviting me here by the way. And I just want to say I'm very humbled to be here sharing the stage with these amazing people. I'm a cardiologist, I live in Phoenix with my husband who's also a physician and our five and eight year old boys. We were on a pursuit for time, freedom and we invest in small multifamily and we also invest passively in multifamily syndications as well as alternative assets.

All right, thank you so much. So you can see we have people here of varying interests. A lot of them are involved in active things, involved in passive things. Let's start with it, let's start with Victor. You started with active or passive. What was the very first thing you did?

First thing was my own condo I bought in medical school which I planned to become a long term rental when I left. And so I started off on the active side on a small one bedroom.

Did you, did you think of that as like an investment or for you, did you think like that's, you know, was it, was it a long term plan to make it a big portfolio or was it just, just happened that you had a condo and you moved out, you know, you moved on and you kept.

No, the plan was to buy it as my first investment property. My parents had a couple rentals that I kind of grew up alongside and we did a lot of the self management. My dad would take us there on the weekends and we'd have to do some chores. So I was already used to the idea. And when I bought my first property I went into it with the mindset of I'm going to buy something cheap that will cash flow well in the future.

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Jordan, how about you? Why did you start with. With rental real estate? What was the whole goal behind all that?

I started, it was really kind of at the beginning. My story's out there, but I had no financial sense at all. And I just started learning about this stuff and I saw people like you and of course my first reaction was, I can't do this. But then I kept seeing it and hearing it. So I went to my wife and I was like, we need to invest in real estate. And her reaction was like, are you kidding me? I had just moved. We had just moved from New York City to Buffalo. Like, still had tons of debt, all this stuff, her credit, she stuck with it. And our goal was just to create an alternative source of cash flow. We wanted it to align with other principles. We decided, you're going to invest in the city that we're living in, where I'm from, to create affordable housing and build up the City and also again to replace eventually my clinical income. She was working as a professor, so that was the goal and we bought one duplex to start on duplexes.

Sorry amta, what was that first deal for you?

So for me it was land flipping because I bought and sold the land to make a profit. Because you know, when I was working as a hospitalist, I noticed that I was switching jobs to jobs just because I was diagnosed with autoimmune illness and I had a special need kiddo. It was very hard to kind of find that balance. So I was like, how can I replace my clinical income as fast as I can and get that time freedom so that I can focus on my own health and my daughter who needed it the most at that time. So my first was just a land flip where I made 10k profit.

Why did you decide on land flipping? Of all the things you can think about to start in real estate, why, why land flipping?

You know, I was very financially naive. I graduated in 2012 and it seemed like in by 2020 when I was like I was decided to become a land flipper. I didn't have much money saved in to even buy a rental and I didn't realize even the basics and I didn't have that six figures going in and getting that 10% cash in cash. I was like I need to replace. If the income is not 10k, it doesn't mean much to me. So within a few months with the land flip, we can buy and sell it at the fast pace which was able to just give me that like 10k 25k.

How do you even hear about that? I mean, how many of you have heard of lamp flipping are pretty comfortable with that, right? I mean, how'd you even hear about that, you know?

Yeah, that's interesting. One of my husband's friend, he started this as a side gig and he started to talk about his deal where he made 45k in his deal. It was just one flip. I was like, wow, 45k. Even if I buy the rental or even as a physician amount of hours I have to work to make that 45k. Because I was working as a full time nocturnist at that time. And in the nighttime, you know, like things are slow. You go in that mode like what are you doing in your life? Like what do you need? What do you want from life and realize that, gosh, like I don't want to be up whole night like that to make that money. So when I heard 45k and I did my calculation like, how many hours of those nights I'll have to work to make that 45k? And I was like, okay, whenever I'm off now, I have to figure this thing out. And that's when I started to kind of do that.

Awesome.

Christina, what was your first real estate investment, and why'd you get into it?

So how I got into real estate is probably a story that many of you can relate to. But just briefly, I mean, I always wanted to be a doctor. I wanted to help people. I love cardiology. Eight years ago, I finished fellowship, and I made it right. I became that doctor. I got my goal. I should be so happy. But early on, I just. I had that constant question that kept coming in my mind. Is this it? Is this really my life? And so at that time, we also had little kids, by the way, and thank God for grandparents, but grandparents were also raising them. I struggled to balance being a good mom, a good wife, a good cardiologist. And so I pushed through because I felt like I couldn't really talk to anyone about it. And 2020 comes, and it's obviously bad for everybody. And I think I saw on social media Peter's Leveraging Growth Summit Free Virtual, and it was just blinders coming off. You know, there were so many physicians that were just like me, and I had no idea. And they were just. They literally changed. You know, they're changing their lives investing in real estate. And so that's when that idea got implanted, that curiosity that there's possibilities out there. And so we ended up educating ourselves. We got into active first, my husband and I. It just resonated with me. I wanted to get my hands dirty. I felt like that was the best way to learn. And the real estate professional status, being able to shelter our active income was very appealing, even though we didn't qualify. But along the way, though, you know, when market changed and we were unable to find something in our buy box, we decided to diversify and got into some passive deals or syndications.

Awesome. I mean, I think people see you on the other side of it, and I think people wonder, like, how did you get over that initial hump, like that very first deal? And you guys have done it, but I don't think we can emphasize enough how important or how difficult oftentimes it is to make that first step and the first leap. So what was that for you? What was keeping you? Or what was the struggle that you had? The thought, maybe. And how did you overcome that? Let's start with Victor.

Well, getting my first property is late in 2006 in Detroit, Michigan, and I was looking for a condominium for myself. I was like, if I can find a place that's cheaper than the apartment I'm renting, then this will definitely make sense. But finding something that cheap. I was broke, okay. I had no money. I had probably less than $10,000 in cash. And this is after having worked as a high school teacher for two years and made no money doing that. So I had no money. I was in school. But at that time it was easier to get a mortgage. So I had to find a place I could afford with $60,000 and I was able to get it with like 5% down and somehow qualify despite having no income whatsoever.

But different time.

It was a different time.

Yeah.

But yes. I mean, looking back on it, I was like, who would lend to me at that time? That's crazy. But that was the hardest thing was finding something that I could afford that would cash flow and then, you know, getting it.

Was there any fear for you when you did that, like at the beginning?

No, because I was like, well, I'm going to pay rent anyway. And I already was able to get out of my other apartment. So at that time, the downside risk was small and it was $60,000. I knew that there should easily rent out in the future. But also at that time, our lifestyles were uninflated, which is the easiest time to get started. Right. And you can actually buy something cheap and potentially house hacked from the beginning.

Was that, you know, when you made your first land purchase. I know that couldn't have been easy.

Yeah.

So. So what thoughts did you have to ultimately battle? I say what you have to overcome and how did you get past that?

You know, like the process of the model which I was trying to kind of copy was a land flipping model where you have to kind of reach out to the land owners and then kind of directly negotiate with them and stuff like that. It requires the whole system where, like you get the list of the landowners, you have your own criteria, and it was like almost a month of work to even before you do their direct marketing to them. So it was really very hard and complex. I took like an online course which had no life element to it. Everything was just recorded and everything was very dull, boring to look at. The Excel, you know, the filter, the list and this, that and that. That was all very new for me. And I didn't know how to create a skeletal system behind a business which I was trying to kind of build. So I was not Looking at the land which was listed in the market, I had to create that whole system, choose my market and everything. But I was like, I knew that for somebody else it was working. So I had to just take it whenever I was off, even if it was in the middle of the night. I was just doing those things, like getting the list, you know, the printing it and just trusting the process to kind of see if it will work. I never like delegated anything to everybody, like, or hired any help at that time. I just kind of spend my own hours and then kind of just kind of. And then in first marketing campaign, we got three deals which got us a profit of like 25 gave within four months. And then I realized, okay, this works now finally. I know it works now.

What was that? What was the size of the first check you wrote?

It was pretty close to around, like, I think the net which we got was like around 8k after all the closing and everything. And then I was like, oh, to make a K, probably as a hospitalist, to get that net amount, I'll have to probably.

How much did you make to invest first again? Maybe we don't.

That was not much because, you know, we started in 2018. At that time, the market was not that inflated the way it is right now. And we went for a very small parcels because I knew I didn't have a big budget to start with. So the markets, what we chose was the buy price was around like a thousand dollars and the market value of that was around 15 to 20K. And we were selling it a little discounted so we could make like 10k profit really fast. So it was even less than 10k, including all the LLC and the cost and everything. So it was less than 10k.

So is it fair to say that you, you, you, you started with a small investment that you felt very comfortable doing?

Yes.

And you're able to do that.

Okay.

And put my time in time in.

Okay, Jordan, how about you? Like, what would it feel like to make that first investment? You obviously were talking to your wife and there were some probably good discussions there.

It's terrifying. I call it like the oh, shit moment, which we worked really hard to look at a lot of deals and try to find one. And we had a bunch of offers that weren't taken. And then we, and we were disappointed. Then we finally got the one that was. And we looked at each other. We're just like, what did we get ourselves into now? We're, we're in it. And it was scary. And I think if you don't have that scary moment, you're probably doing something wrong. But we were, we were scared of losing money, of getting in over our heads. We took a long time to come to terms with the concept of weight. We're taking out more debt to get out of the debt that we're already in. That's kind of a mind twister at first, until you really understand it. And the way we got past that, because we had all the same fears as anyone else, but we, we set a pretty hard deadline. If we said, okay, we're, we're going to learn about this for a few months and once we get to that point, we're going to buy a place and it may not be perfect. Obviously we had our criteria. We weren't just like, we're going to buy anything. But we said, you know, we're not looking for perfect, we're looking for good, and we're just going to do it. And so we bought a place that was, we ended up getting 100, getting it for 174,000, you know, 25% down. We did pretty much all the rehab, which was light rehab and painting ourselves, which after that we decided we don't want to do that anymore. But we learned from that. And then we kept, we got another one like six months later, and we just kind of slowly kept taking those steps forward. And you learn and get more comfortable to then where it's not a big thing and it's, it's just like medicine. It's like your first night or whatever, your first day as a resident, you're just like, what, what do I do? And you figure it out somehow. It's the same thing.

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Christina, how, how, how did you get over that initial hurdle of getting to your first investment?

Yeah, it was a lot of fear, just like Jordan said, right? Am I going to fail? Am I going to lose money? It's too risky. And I'll be honest, a few years ago, my husband wanted to invest in stocks, and I was that person. Stocks, how am I? We're gonna lose money. So definitely a lot of fear. But through this community, we learned about our values and our why and why we were doing this. And there was a lot of amazing people who are actually here at this conference who really gave us that vision of all the possibilities. And so we focused on that, which was our family, our kids, experience, time. And that's what pushed us through and we got through all the hurdles, all the fear.

Do you have anything?

Do you mind sharing maybe a mistake or something that you would have done a little bit differently for people, Christina, kind of stuff with you, like maybe with that first investment, something that you did learn, something that you would have done a little bit differently, either in terms of the timing of the investing or how you did it or anything you might be want to share?

I guess I would say not mistakes, but something that maybe I would have done differently. We've all heard about the analysis paralysis. I mean, I wanted everything to be so perfect. And so, I mean, my husband and I, we spent, I think almost a year just reading books, going to conferences, courses, a lot of podcasts. And so we just kind of got stuck in that, that paralysis for a little bit. But again, we started engaging the community and really tapping into people that are here to move forward and propel us. And so that's how we kind of got through it. But if I was going to do it again. I would say it doesn't have to be perfect. You just have to take one step. You don't need to know all the steps. You don't have to have the full blueprint. Just take that one step at a time.

All right, Jordan, how about you? Any. Any big mistakes when we share with people?

Yeah, definitely.

Or small mistakes?

A lot of mistakes. And I continue to make mistakes. I think some of the biggest we. We've underestimated, like capital expenses for sure. We've, you know, thought we got pretty good at looking at properties ourselves and waived inspections and then had things come up. We've, my wife and I still manage largely ourselves, so we've placed tenants that were not good. We've made all those mistakes and you learn from them. None of them are like fatal flaws or anything like that. You know, you build in for those mistakes. Even with all those things, all of our properties still all have and continue to cash flow like 10 to 20%. So. So, yeah, lots of mistakes that'll happen and you need to make those to learn along the way. You try to minimize them, but no matter how much you prepare, you're still going to make some.

I'm standing mistakes for me, I think.

Not focusing on one thing. Like, after I had success at land, I started to kind of just get that shiny object syndrome. And then I got some long term rental, I got some short term rental, I got some midterm rental. And I think that slowed the speed of the growth, which I wanted to see. So I really think sometimes we need to just kind of just narrow it down and focus on one thing which we like, which fits our need rather than like, oh, let's diversify, like, let's do everything. A little bit of everything. I think I wish I was just kind of more focused to start with.

Got it.

How about you, Victor?

There's always a lot of little mistakes. On a quick side tangent associated with this, I thought about is I take care of cancer patients and I have to go through all these potential side effects of treatment. And always I'm constantly reinforcing. The side effects of the treatment are overwhelmingly going to be less than the side effects of the cancer you have. Okay, so this is how we have to think about everything. It's a cost benefit, right. And so I can list off so many mistakes that we could have made. But the biggest mistake was actually just not buying more. Earlier I was in Detroit during the recession. My condo complex is 30 apartments and 10 condos, and those apartments were converted to condos. But never sold. Those 30 units sold at an auction for $600,000. And I could write that check today if I had bought that house, that property in 2009, just a few years later, it sold for two and a half million dollars. But with the knowledge I have now, I could have made that happen overnight. Right. So it was really just a lack of doing more rather than all the little things that we could have done better.

I think what people want to know, I think is great advice is ultimately, what's the impact it's made at this point where you're at? We've heard and seen along these slides. People have really, really far along. But what's the impact this made on your life, your family, your career, all of these things? I know it's a big question, but I think people would like to know, like, whether you know where you're at right now.

Well, every day, multiple times I say, especially first thing in the morning, why am I going to work? And then I'm at work and I'm like, why am I here? And then I get yelled at for something else and I'm like, this is ridiculous. I can walk out the door today. And that by itself is incredibly empowering. I'm sure I would be a lot more burned out, stressed out, frustrated if I knew I had to go to work. I mean, fortunately we have multiple streams of income. I am married to a radiologist, so that helps.

That's one of his sources of income.

One extra cash source of income. But fortunately, literally since the day I started practice, we haven't really spent any of my money for eight years. And so we've just invested all of it. And so we live off of one, but really she doesn't have to work either. We have our midterm rentals, we have our syndications, we have our real estate fund. I mean, this is, it's good cash, cash flow well above what we live just. It would be a big mindset shift to depend on that. But knowing that we have that is incredibly empowering.

Mamta, what's done for you?

Yeah, so in 2018 was my year where I realized that other than medicine, I had to do something else. And the things which triggered this emotion was I was denied private disability insurance and the life insurance because of my own health condition. And when that happened, that was a blow on my face. I was like, wow, if I'm not employed anymore, you know, what's the security? Like, what do I hold onto? So having this other investments and having this business and having the Income. Earlier this year, my husband was let go from Dell and we were just fine. We were. In fact, he was happy. He enjoyed his three months because there was no monetary, you know, there was no stress whatsoever. And Pandemic has honestly been the best time in our life and our family because we got to just stay at home, spend time with each other, not worry about finances and our daily schedule. Like, each day when I get up, I remember when working as a physician would get up, get kids ready to send them to school and get ready to go to the work. And then in the evening time, we'll see them, then feed them, put them to the bed. That's how life looked like. And now there's so much time in between and we are all so calm and collected. I just love that. I didn't think if I ever dreamed that this was possible for me as a physician.

Awesome.

Yeah, we're not comment collected in my house, by the way. It doesn't matter how long. I don't know how you do it. I'm going to have to learn from you, Jordan, what kind of impact has made on your life and career and then kind of what's your outlook on everything?

It's definitely been a big impact for me. It's been largely kind of mental. It hasn't replaced our income yet, but it hasn't had to. And I still really love what I do. I get really excited to go into work and I love operating and I love all that stuff. But a big reason of why I'm so happy doing it is because I know I don't have to. I think a lot of us are the same way. I could be doing the exact same thing. But if I'm doing it because I want to, I'm much happier than if someone's telling me that I have to. So it's been big in that regard. It's been big for my wife as well. Like I said, she was working as a professor and she gained lot of notoriety in her field, but felt really frustrated because just professors get paid really poorly and didn't feel like she was being valued properly. And this gave her the confidence to say, you know what? I've achieved what I wanted to in this field and I'm going to step away from that. And so now, you know, she does real estate full time. And so it's. It's been big. And then as we continue to grow, you know, it will eventually replace our clinical income and give us the ability for me to step away if I want to, which that Very well may come in the future. And up to now, we've just reinvested everything except actually this past summer, for the first time, we used our real estate income to buy something which was just like an absurd playground for our kids to put in the backyard. But it was really a nice feeling to be able to do that. So that was very cool.

Awesome. Christina, what's it done for you and way it's impacted your career? I know you talked about how your outlook on your career early on, but what's it done for you now?

The biggest impact is the person that I become through this process, through this real estate journey. Having that growth mindset goes with many things in life, especially including real estate. But I think that through this process, I found that there's a commonality with a lot of physicians that I've met along this journey as compared compared to the physicians or the cardiologists that I've worked with. And that's the abundance mindset. And so once I started kind of tapping into developing relationships, really focusing on myself, I invested a lot in myself. I mean, I went to four conferences last year coaching mastermind. I really was able to shift that mindset from scarcity to abundance. And that has served me so well in not just real estate and getting the passive income, but every aspect of my life. And so that's been a tremendous change. I've also had an identity shift. I'm not just a cardiologist. I went per diem. In addition to this small multifamily we have in Phoenix, we invested in four syndications just in the last year. I have to give a shout out to a phenomenal mastermind that I'm a part of, people who inspire me. Freedom 5, Peter and Vikrams. Through that mastermind, I found some incredible people. I'm so grateful for my partners who continue to inspire me, elevate me, and push me. And we are partnering on a 38 unit multifamily.

Awesome. Amazing. All right, so we can. I mean, first of all, these stories are all amazing. We can go on and on. Hopefully you guys can find these people after this and you can ask some questions. They've made themselves available for you, but we're going to leave them with one tip.

Okay.

Anybody who's part of my leverage of growth summit, we know we like to leave people with one tip for someone who's just getting started in the journey, either just to help them get started and so that next year they can be on this panel too.

So, Victor, so the easiest and fastest way to get started is to invest in the syndication. I think that that's an easy way you can pull the trigger. The talk we just had before this, the eight red flags, that's fantastic. I mean it's great to have just a quick bullet list and I 100% agree with all of those. I mean invest in one deal and get started and you will learn along the way without necessarily having to do and put yourself at a lot of risk time wise, stress wise financially. You know, there's a very limited downside risk besides that upfront capital. You don't need to worry about cash flowing a rental property, thousands of dollars a month. You don't have to worry about the stress of doing your tax return for your first rental property, which is something we've all done this before, kind of go through. It's like oh my gosh, what am I doing? But that's easily the easiest way to get started and then you can go from there. But pulling the first trigger and getting yourself in and then kind of pivoting as you need to. And we've done a lot of things in real estate, we've flipped houses, we've done short term rentals and we've always kind of pivoted into whatever worked best. But get started with something that has a low threshold, the low hanging fruit, so to speak. That's what I would recommend doing.

Thank you. How about you Mamta?

That's what I would say. Like decide what do you want to do but decide to start and put a deadline for yourself. I really think we spend a lot of time in analyzing the things that. Because we don't want to lose the money but we are losing the time and that's losing money because time is money. So just decide, put a deadline that you're going to be investing before December 31st or November 1st. Whatever deadline, just put a deadline on yourself. I really think that works well for me that I have the deadline, I have to make a decision, I have to active investing, passive, whatever it is, but you're going to be investing by that date.

Amazing.

I love that.

Jordan.

I was going to say the exact same thing that they did which is put a deadline on it and just start. But I think the other thing is there's trust two people or trust two things. Trust yourself. I think it's amazing when I look back before I started even just with the general personal finance stuff that I was so confident doing all the complex stuff that all of us do as physicians positions every day, but so, so unconfident myself in just these other simple things. So you can do this like none of us are smarter than any of you, obviously. And then trust the numbers. I think that's the other thing is, you know, real estate is a numbers game and I came to learn this from I took the semi retired course with Kenji and Letty and that's what my wife and I constantly still remind ourselves is just trust the numbers. If the numbers work, go for it. If it doesn't, just walk away. But that's how you're going to kind of overcome the emotional hurdle is try to be as unemotional as you can. Awesome.

How about you, Christina?

All great advice. I'm going to say make sure that you have clarity. One of the speakers talked about this Know where you are now, know where you want to go in the future, what is your vision, and have that strong, you know, path to propel you forward.

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