#193 How I Was Able to Transition From Physician to “Grey’s Anatomy” Producer

Hey, everyone.

Hope you're having another great week. You can probably tell I'm doing this recording off site. I'm starting this new year in the mountains, spending some time with family. I hope that you're starting the new year doing things that you absolutely love and enjoy with people that you love as well. This week, you're going to hear an interview from someone who's able to take one of those passions that she had for writing and creating and producing and then use her medical knowledge as well to eventually become one of the executive producers of a show we all know, Grey's anatomy. This is Dr. Zoanne Clack. She's an amazing story. And if you ever felt like you had some passion that was untapped that you want to unleash in some way, you're really going to get a lot out of this interview. So enjoy. Thanks. Welcome to the Passive Income MD Podcast, where we talk about creating your ideal life through multiple streams of income. If you enjoy hearing about this stuff, make sure to hit subscribe. Now, let's get on with the show. Zuann, how you doing?

Hi, Peter.

I'm always excited to talk to you. You're always smiling. It's great. I'm always excited to talk to you. Let's tell people exactly who you are, exactly. I hope the bio did you justice. Is there anything that you want to add to that right off the bat?

Well, yeah, I did train in emergency medicine at Emory University, and then you'll hear this as part of my story, but I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do next after I had some burnout, like in second year residency. So I went on to get my. I did a fellowship in injury prevention, which led to my master's in public health. And. And then I went into my foray for the. The writing. Oh, great.

So that was your background.

You.

You had this whole academic career, in a way, I'd say you residency, you did fellowships, you even got your mph. So what was your plan after that point? I mean, in terms of your career?

Well, my plans always got kind of, like, sidetracked when I started burning out. Right. So it was always my plan to just pursue medicine because that was what I was told to do. Right. So when I was growing up, success meant being a doctor or a lawyer, so I picked doctor. And that was very encouraged in my life as far as, like, I would get chemistry sets and microscopes for gifts. In elementary school, it was very much pushed, and they were like, you make good grades. This is what you should do. So around senior year of high school, I started to question that, is that really what I want to pursue? Is that really what my goals are myself? So I went to Northwestern and went in undecided. So I was like, you know what? I really, I was raised by television basically because my mom was a single mom. I'm the only kid to a single mom who was a teacher. And you know, this was kind of her plan for me. But I grew up with her working two jobs and being a latchkey kid and all of that. So I was really into TV and I was like, well, maybe there's something I could do in entertainment. So when I got to Northwestern, I was like, well, maybe I can transfer into the radio, TV film program. And the reason I mentioned Northwestern is because it's a huge place to go for radio, tv, film. I had no idea people had been spending their whole lives working towards getting into that program. And I was like, let me try. So my freshman year I just kind of took a bunch of electives and did a bunch of behind the scenes things for the radio, tv, film program, got in at the end of freshman year, went home for the summer. And my mom had that certain look in her eye where she was like, sure, go for it. I knew she didn't mean it. So I went back and I changed my major to communication studies. Since it had gone taken me so long to get into the school of speech, I just wanted to stay there. And then did all my pre med requirements and did all my medicine for like the next 10 years, did what I, as I was told, you know, chose emergency medicine. And then by the second year of residency I already knew, like, am I going to do this for the rest of my life? And that's when what I was saying, I was like, well, let me get this master's in public health that will give me some more options. And then I went to the CDC because I was in Atlanta and I did some international emergency medicine. And I was like, okay, this will be my thing. And of course the CDC is very bureaucratic, very much not a hands on helping people kind of thing. And I felt kind of a loss of that, you know, kind of sitting around in Americanized hotels in like Tanzania and Palau and you know, running numbers and seeing who was going to get the, the $50,000 for the land Rover. You know, I didn't feel like I was hands on helping people. So that wasn't quite it. And then I just started kind of visiting LA a lot. I had a lot of friends that Lived in Los Angeles. And you know, Peter, there's a lot of, like, just that feeling of wanting of people like here and wanting to pursue their dreams and, you know, starving artist and that whole thing. And I just kind of got this bug, you know, it's just like, you know, I always wanted to do that. Maybe there's a chance that I could pursue that. And then that's kind of what got that ball rolling.

Well, I mean, first of all, amazing story about, you know, your medical career and how it started to transition. Even I didn't even know about your background, which is awesome. So at Northwestern you had that background, at least some sort of inkling back there or idea that you might want to pursue this. So then let's say you moved to LA and you started to get that bug. What was that first step that you took to actually step into that?

Well, it was actually before I moved to la. So I had been working as, you know, I'd done my fellowship, I've been working as an academic ER doc. And that's when I kind of decided to make that transition. But of course, growing up as I did, I was never going to be a starving artist. So I was getting all my ducks in a row. You know, I was looking for places, I was looking for jobs. I had all these different kind of ER jobs. I had some community ones and some academic ones just to kind of see if I could, you know, I was like, I have a good day job. I can, I can go and try this. And then a friend of mine was looking in the back of an the emergency medicine journal for me and saw that the show ER was looking for an on set person. And I. And she, she called me and she's like, oh my God, this would be perfect for you. And I was like, this would be perfect. So I shot off a letter to them, heard nothing. And then like, this is, I feel like the most miraculous part of the story, and this is what I feel like people should take out from the story the most, is that I would never mix, like, my desire to do like, Fluffy Entertainment with like, the fact that I saved lives for a living, right? So I would never, like, talk to people about it. I would just say, you know, I'm going to LA to just, you know, just have a change of pace and, you know, all these excuses. And so I was talking to one of my mentors about it randomly for some reason, I don't even know why. And he was like, oh, I trained with a guy who's hiring. You should mention My name, like they were good friends. And so I shot off another letter with his name in it, immediately got an interview, which Hollywood calls meetings. Got a meeting. And I should say also that I started my ER residency the same year as the show ER started. So I felt like I had grown up with this show. And so I went to my meeting and got to tour the sets. And, Peter, when I tell you I was giddy with the possibility of getting this job, I had never. I had interviewed for many jobs, many, you know, medical school, residency, all of that, and never kind of felt this kind of like butterflies in the stomach kind of thing. So then I got back two weeks later, they called me and they said, you don't have the job, but we'll keep you in mind. And I thought, whoa, Hollywood. That is very, very Hollywood. But they did. And a year. Well, like eight months, almost a year later, another executive producer from the show ER was doing a new show called Presidio Med, which didn't last very long, but they were like, you know, interview this person, Zoann. I don't know if you need what you need or whatever, because she wasn't sure what she needed. The person who had done the pilot, there was a doctor who had done the pilot, and she had taken a year off before she did a fellowship, so she didn't know if she was going to be available. But I sat down with her in the meeting, the executive producer, and I was like, you know what? I'll do anything. I consult. I'll be on set. But I'd really love to write. And literally, I had just found writing again. And I just written my first script ever in a UCLA extension class, and I shoved it in her face, which is something that I may not have done had I known better. But it did lead to my first writing job. She hired me as a writer.

Hey, everyone. Wanted to pop in here real quick to let you know that the annual Leverage and Growth Summit, I think it's our fifth one this year. It's happening on February 26th through March 1st, 2024. This is a virtual summit. It's for physicians. It is definitely one of my favorite events of the year. And the reason I love it is that it's all about stories. It's about stories of physicians doing some really amazing things outside of medicine, leveraging their medical degrees and all of that ambition and skills that they've grown and cultivated throughout their medical training and. And then using it for some other venture. These are doctors that are creating their ideal lives, that are living Life by Design. We've had tens of thousands of physicians who have participated in this in the past, and it's such a cool experience. I know you're gonna have a great time, so mark out that time, put it in your calendars, look out for it. And the best part is that it's completely free. It's a free summit. So plan to join us on February 26th through March 1st. Look out for that and see you there. So what did that writing job look like for you, like, in terms of, like, also. You're also working as an ER physician at this point, right?

Yes.

Okay, so how is he handling it back?

I think, yeah.

What. What does that look like? What does that mean to somebody to be a writer on the show? Like, how does that look in terms of, like, the day to day?

Well, so I started off as a staff writer, which is. It's. It's kind of like military ranks. You go up in rank as you stay in the business longer, and you start off as staff writer and you end up as executive producer, usually. So I came out as a staff writer. I think I did. I was doing. I don't know how many shifts I was doing per month, but probably at least two or three. Per week. No, probably two per week. But, you know, this is something that maybe doctors would understand or especially ER docs. Like, one of the first things was going into the. Into the office and having my own office. I was so excited. And none of the other writers were. All the other writers were like, yeah, you have an office. But she, the executive producer that I met with, had actually hired both me and the other doctor, and we were both like, oh, my God, we have an office. We were both ecstatic about that. But it was basically meeting every day with the writers. You sit around, basically, a table or in a room, we call it the writer's room, and you just discuss, like, what the stories are going to be, what the medicine's going to be, what are the arcs for these. For the, for the. For the show and for the characters and for the medical stories. And it's just everyone kind of giving their opinion, sharing their lives, sharing, you know, different things that are happening in the world and. And trying to integrate it into what the characters are and what the show is, basically. So, yeah, I did that for, like. Plus I was trying to learn everything about tv because I had only been in LA for like a year and a half when this happened. I had taken. I first started taking acting classes because I really thought I wanted to act because I grew up in Texas. I watched tv. That's what I saw. I kind of knew there was stuff in the. In the background, but, you know, but so I took these acting classes. And what led me to writing was they. I always thought that actors, when they cried, you know, put drops in their eyes, had a little, you know, emoted or whatever. But what acting teaches you is to dredge up every horrible emotion that you've ever had in your entire life and pull it up through your body and take it out through your face. So on the one hand, I was a doctor telling. Being told to push everything down, be strong for your patients. And on the other hand, I was in these acting classes telling me to pull all this stuff up that I lived with for years and years and years. So I didn't have anywhere to put it. Because who wants to listen to all this stuff, right? So I started writing, and I was like, oh, my God, this is what I'd always wanted to do. When I was 11, I wanted to be the youngest author. But then somebody published something that was 11, so I left that alone. It was always this thing in the back of my head that I wanted to do. So that's what led to my first script. And this is all to say that that first year of trying to learn television on the go, I also was trying to write a new script so that I'd have something to show agents. Cause I got my agent in that first year. Because they tend to come to you when you have jobs. Although that's less true now, back in the day. But, yeah, just the learning TV was really harder than I thought because I got in kind of so easily that I just kind of took for granted a lot of the things that I would just kind of know, things. Whereas most people start as, like, PAs, which is not our PAs, their assistants who, like, go do the runs and go get food and all that, but they're learning on the job. And then writers, assistants, they're in the room, they're absorbing things, but they're not responsible for, like, scripts and stories necessarily. So I didn't go through that process. I had to, like, you know, kind of learn on the go. And that was.

It sounds like being a physician helped you obviously, move into the role that you were in a little bit sooner, Is that right?

100%. Because it was a medical show. They weren't. Again, they weren't sure what they needed. But I was here for all of it. So, yeah, I always said that a lot of people spent their time doing their mfa, going to USC and New York and all the film schools and then doing their time as assistants. And I was like, my time as assistants was residency and fellowship and all of that stuff. So I might have taken a shortcut to get into the industry, but it definitely wasn't, like, a shortcut of my life.

Right, okay, so you're on that. You're on that show. You start as a staff writer. I mean, I think what people are really interested to hear is how you went from that show to Grey's Anatomy. Because I know everyone here knows exactly all about Grey's Anatomy. So how did that transition happen?

So that first show, like I said, only lasted for eight months, and we got canceled. And that was. I had written one script during that time, so it really wasn't enough to kind of show people who I was or whatever. So I took the next season, which is a year, but it's like, from May to May, just writing things and taking bunches of classes. I actually found a calendar that I just saved these things for some reason. And all of the stuff that I did, plus do shifts in, like, three or four different hospitals. Mind blown how I did that or, like, that whole era of my life, I'm like, who was that? Because, you know, I'm used to being like, this is the safe route. This is what you do. And that one, I was just like. I think I just had to show people that, you know, I had made this big move and something was going to come of it. So I just poured myself into it and did all of the classes and all of the scripts. I wrote a play. I wrote, like, two or three different other scripts. So when it came to staffing time again, which is again around, like, April May for network television, I had all these different scripts and got all these meetings, and I was always so happy when they didn't know I was a doctor. Like, they literally just brought me in on for the content of the script. So that always made me excited. But the two offers I got were for House and Grey's Anatomy. And at the time, okay, so House was on Fox. I grew up with three stations, none of which were Fox. So I didn't really consider Fox, like, a real network. Even though they had just gotten American Idol, they were becoming really big. I was like, I'm not sure about Fox. And then ABC at the time was the fourth network. It was doing horribly. It was not doing well. And that's where Grey's Anatomy was. So I had to kind of weigh both of those options. And on House. I was like, it would always be me who would have to figure out, like, what's the twist that they can't find the diagnosis or what's this crazy diagnosis? And that seemed like a. I seen a lot to me. So I was like, grayson, I've been a resident. I know residents. That seems like, you know, kind of an easier flow. Although I respected both of the shows. And then what happened was abc, the ABC president at the time, didn't have, like, a huge amount of faith in Grey's Anatomy, so he pushed us to a mid season show, mid season, you know, to start, which was fine, because at least if you're mid season, you don't get canceled, like, after the first two or three episodes, you get to actually do produce all the episodes. So I was like, okay, that's fine. Meanwhile, they had put House on after American Idol, and it became huge. Like, it was a huge show. Grey's Anatomy was struggling. Like, the president at the time was shutting us down, wanted us to change the tone, wasn't sure it was what he actually bought. Like, there was a lot of. A lot of, like, touch and go with Grey's Anatomy. Plus, it was the year that Lost and Desperate Housewives came out. So they had these huge hits, and they really didn't need this, like, third straggling show. So they kept pushing our dates and pushing our dates. Meanwhile, I was calling my agents and was like, do the people at Houzz still like me? Because I wasn't sure, like, literally. The writer's room stopped and we gathered up all our things and left the lot because we finished producing and we finally got an air date. And what had happened was the president of the network was like, look, I will try to put the show on for four episodes. If it doesn't last, if it doesn't do well, it's done. So Shonda Rhimes, who created Grey's Anatomy, had decided that we were gonna have a party at her house on the fourth episode. And it would either be a bye bye party or yay, we're picked up party. So they put us on in place of Boston Legal after Desperate Housewives. We did really well the first week, but you know, who's not gonna just watch after Desperate Housewives? It was a mega hit back then, but they were like, boston Legal returning in three weeks. And then the next week we did a little better, but they were still like, boston Legal returning in two weeks. And. And then the third week, I think we like. Like, our ratings were, like, incredible. Like, beat all of Boston Legal's ratings and all of everything. And we never heard about Boston Legal coming back again. And of course, the fourth episode party was very much like, yay, we're staying on credit party. And yeah. And so that was 19 seasons ago. So I have managed to make the most unstable kind of job into the most stable job.

Oh, my gosh. I mean, that's nuts. And when did you. First of all, fascinating story. I'm sure people who, you know, grew up around my time, especially doing training, all that stuff. We remember that time, remember all those shows when Grey's Anatomy hit. And it's still amazing that it's out there today. When did you decide that this was going to be your full time thing?

Yeah, like you said, I practiced for probably like the first seven or eight years. And it was. I was doing. I was down to like two 12 hour shifts a month when I kind of really got into the groove of Grey's Anatomy. And then I changed it, or maybe it was four and then I changed it to two. And then I said, I can only do eight hour shifts because, you know, they would change the, like, computer system and I would. I wasn't really adept with it, so I had to spend one or two hours after my shifts just to do all the paperwork. And I was like, no, I can only do eight hours. And each time I was asking things, I was like, they're gonna fire me at any point. They were like, no, keep it coming. And mostly it's because I would work weekend nights. So that was always helpful to the practice. And it got down to where I was doing literally one eight hour shift a month. And I felt it was a little bit dangerous because I was a little bit slower in just coming up with stuff as easily. It might take me a second or two more than it did before. And plus I was spending so much time with paperwork, it just felt burdensome. Began to feel burdensome. Whereas before I could bring stories from, you know, my experiences into the room and it was actually helpful. But then when it started becoming more burdensome and it was like the seventh or eighth season of Grey's Anatomy, and I felt like, okay, I probably am going to be okay if I don't have this extra job because always the backup plan.

Yeah.

So I. I finally. Oh. What happened was another group, one of the big groups, came in to take over my little er, which had been a private group, and there was like a stack of paperwork like this. And I was like, why am I filling out all this paperwork for one 8 hour shift, which I'm not busting. You know, like, it's not my priority really anymore. And I also should say that, you know, by this time, I had moved up in the ranks in the writer's room, and I was the sole medical person on Grey's Anatomy. So it was a huge job. It was huge. Like, literally the job that I did, now four or five people do, because I now have this team that I have put together through the years. But for the first 10 years, I did it all on my own. Plus, I was working in the ER for the first seven. So, yeah, then I was like, no more. I kept up all my certifications and everything until recently. But, you know, my mom never, ever stopped being like, do you still have your medical. You still have your license? Even though I was, like, far surpassing the. The salary of being a doctor and going to the Emmys, doing all these things. And she was just like, but are you still a doctor?

I totally get that. No, I mean, I think our families will always kind of see you as that. And how did you respond to that?

Well, I would show her my paycheck. She wasn't impressed. She was like. But still. And then I would show her my license, you know, because I, you know, would keep that up.

So. So I want. I mean, first of all, again, amazing story. I think for some people that may not be familiar with that whole area, and I'm not completely familiar with that area, too. When you moved up to the role of executive producer, like, what does that mean in terms of your role, and what are you exactly doing at that point?

Well, executive producers are more overseers and teachers because, you know, we've been in the business, so we're able to kind of bring the younger writers up. So what happens with the rankings is you go from staff writer to story editor to executive story editor to co producer, producer, supervising producer, co executive producer to executive producer. So that's kind of the rankings that you go up. People can get stuck at any of those levels, and it doesn't necessarily mean that your job changes per se, but you do have more responsibility, and you are expected to know more, and you are expected to be able to churn out scripts and churn out story and really help everyone, help everything be lifted up, you know, to a certain level. So there's not necessarily, like, a specific job associated with the role of executive producer in television, because that all changes in film. But, for instance, there's different facets of that. Like, right now, I have been. I started over on Station 19 to kind of help them change the culture of the writers room and the show. Because there's a very diverse writers room and a very diverse cast on that show. And there was a feeling that the writers weren't being heard as much because they just. Just the way that the room was run and stuff. So I was brought over there to kind of help change the culture and run the show. So if we get another season, I will. So I was like the number two this year, which is kind of like the CEO if people are more into. So. But next year I'll be kind of the CEO, so I'll be the showrunner of the show next year. So that when you're. You couple executive producer with that, then that means, like, you're making all the final decision. You're. Everyone's bringing in story and you're deciding what's going to be actually on the air. So. Yeah, so it's just an increasing responsibility. And the thing with Graze, the way that I was able to set up kind of this team that started is that I started this program where. Well, I started this fellowship program. We call it the medical communications fellowship. And I bring in surgical residents who are doing their research years, and they can spend like three months with us. And of course, it's great to kind of keep the show fresh and young, and they can give us stories from their residency and stories. Medical things that they've seen. We've had general surgeons, ents. Well, one was transferring to radiology, so she had a lot of time. We've had neurosurgeons.

Like, we had all these anesthesiologists coming in there telling you good stories.

Anesthesiologists are not loving Grey's Anatomy because they're.

Oh, we talked about that. Yes. Yeah, we need to change the culture of anesthesiologists, you know, but we did.

You know, one of our major characters was an anesthesiologist. Of course he changed the surgery, but. And then he became a firefighter. So, you know, it's just tv.

That's too funny. Okay, so what do you think? I mean, first of all, amazing setting up that fellowship program. But what do you think the potential is for other physicians, doctors who have that kind of creative side to their, you know, to their brain there, for them to get into areas like this now to kind of, you know, pursue some of the same things you've been doing? What do you think the potential is right now?

Well, fortunately, what's. What's really great about the way things have changed over the two decades I've been doing this is that people understand now, like conferences like this, people understand now that there are other avenues and that they don't have to be ashamed about them, you know, that they can step up and say, this is not quite fulfilling my needs at this moment. What else can I do? And it's no slight on medicine. And it's not that we don't love the fact that we can save lives, but at the same time we have these other career pursuits that we would like to do. So I feel like just the general atmosphere is so changed and so much more open now because, you know, people were wallowing and not taking, not, not taking care of themselves, you know, and people now understand that that is a crucial part of just wellness and being human. So I feel like that's definitely more open. So just talking about what you want to do and opening yourself up to the possibility, well, first of all, admitting that maybe this is not what you want to pursue and then finding that niche, finding where you kind of fit in and where you, your brain is stimulated. I mean, one of the things that I learned in those first, like three years of really hunkering down into Grey's Anatomy was to like merge my left and right brain because I was so left brained. And that was such a journey, you know, just learning that for those first three years. So to just be able to be open to the possibilities, I think is the first thing. And then speaking up and telling people what you want to do. You never know who is doing something. There's a lot of consulting opportunities in Hollywood to get your name on one of those lists. The, the organization that I work with the most is Hollywood Health and Society. And they have a list of like all different doctors and different specialties that we always will reach out to. And we just need, because we, for all of our stories, we. Well, not all of them, but we will always reach out to an expert if there is something that above our pay grade. Right. So, you know, we have surgeons, some of the surgeons from my fellowship program stayed. So there's two of two of them. And then me and a researcher and the researcher will research all of these crazy things that happen out in the world. And what's great about being on the show is that if we see this like super cool surgery or super cool case, we can literally call that doctor and they will talk to us, you know, so we get to talk to like all these, like one in a once in a million surgeons and experts and all of that. And then Hollywood, health and society helps us to connect with those people. And if you've written a paper and we really liked what was in that paper, we wanted to talk to you more about, in depth about how to portray that on the show. So that's actually. There's a guy on Chicago Med, a writer on Chicago Med, who started that way. He's a psychiatrist, and he was the liaison for them. And now. And you know, he got to talk to them so much because they had a psychiatrist character on their show. And then he actually transferred to being a writer on that show. So that's definitely a good way to start the pro. The process.

Very cool. Now, looking back at your whole career up to this point and looking at kind of how it's all developed, like, how do you feel about your life as a physician? Even these other creative parts and kind of how do you put that all together, mind?

You know what's crazy is that when you. When you look at what I do and. And what I did, on the surface, it looks like those two don't go together. Like, why are you a doctor? I mean, why are you a writer? But you trained for so long to be a doctor. But what is great is when I look back, it feels like it was all of a piece, even though it wasn't. Because in, you know, in college, I ended up majoring in communication studies. And then I got my MD and then I got a public health degree in behavioral sciences. And when you put that all together with television, it equals entertainment education. And I have been able to kind of validate my existence by the fact that I can reach millions and millions of people with the messages that I put on the show. So, like, if I talked about diabetes to a patient in the ER and they told two friends, and they told two friends, like maybe 20 people would hear my message. But if I put it on the show, 20 million people have heard it within, like the first week of it airing. And it's just like worldwide, you know, it's. And if 10% of those people take any sort of action, then I feel like really things have been done. And when I said before, like when I working for the cdc, it didn't feel very hands on. It was because it was so kind of bureaucratic and political. But here it feels like you're really getting into people. I mean, you're in their homes, you know, we're in their living rooms, we're in their bedrooms, you know, not looking. It's. But, you know, I feel like we're really Making a difference in social issues, in medical issues, in public health issues. There's just a lot that can be done from this forum and that has made me kind of feel like it was all meant to be kind of thing.

Amazing. I mean, I know that people are going to hear this. They're going to want to connect with you in some way, maybe even just find out more about your story. Where's a great place for people to do that?

We Talked about just LinkedIn or social media. I don't have any kind of, like, specific thing, but I don't have a brand. But yeah, that's probably going to be the best way.

Yeah. So people search your name on social media. Zoan Clack.

Not a lot of Zoe and Clacks in the world.

Okay. They'll be able to find you. That's amazing. All right, so before we let you go, first of all, it's been an amazing story and amazing journey. What kind of advice do you have? A big tip that you have for someone who wants to follow in your footsteps?

Well, one is speak up. That's my biggest thing. You never know who's going to have a connection or lead you to your next thing or even have a story that you want to write. Like, who knows, take classes, hone your craft, write what you know, if that's what you want to do. As far as writing. And here's one thing that I really am sad that I didn't do is journaling. Like, having. Having. I. I kind of journaled, journaled off and on through my kind of medical career and residency. But if I had had kind of a written story of what I had done, I feel like it could have been even richer. Like, my experiences on paper that I was putting down could have been even richer and more detailed. And because I always have these notions of things that I did. But to look back at the journals that I actually did, it's just. It's very fulfilling and it kind of helps you push forward because obviously journaling helps just make those creative juices flow in general and then to just be kind of ready for the luck ball. Because, you know, luck is preparation plus opportunity. So just have make those things happen.

Well, I mean, thanks so much for sharing your story. I'm sure people who are listening to this, they're probably going to wait for the book for this one as well, too. Trust me, it's not too late to journal. Write all of this stuff down again. What an amazing story of persistence and really following your passions. And now you're making worldwide impact. So congrats on all your success. Amazing story. Keep it going. Excited to see what happens next. I'm sure other people are too. And let's talk again soon.

Watch Station 19 and Grey's Anatomy.

Yes, everyone get on there and watch it. All right, thanks. Bye. Enjoy the show. Let me know by dropping a review in the podcast app you're listening to us in. And if you haven't already, make sure to hit subscribe. Join thousands of physicians who are also on this journey to creating their ideal lives through multiple streams of income. Learn more at our website, passiveincomemd.com thanks again for allowing me to be a part of your journey. See you next time.