#206 How a Physician Became a Media Personality and the Host of American Ninja Warrior

Hey everyone. Hope you've had a great week. There's so many things going on on my side of the world with all the different conferences and courses and fun things that we're doing to educate and connect people to great resources when it comes to real estate, creating other streams of income. Many of you were part of our leverage and growth summit this year. I know many of you have been part of our summit. For the last five years we've been doing this. We get to meet so many incredible physicians doing all sorts of cool things. This week you get to HEAR ME interview Dr. Matt Eisman. He's a comedian, he's an entertainer, and he is the host of American Ninja Warrior. If you ever watch that show, it's kind of like American Gladiators or an obstacle course on steroids. It's a fun show. We used to watch it as a family together and I was shocked to hear that he was a physician. He has a truly inspiring story. I know you're gonna enjoy it, so stay tuned. Thanks everyone. Welcome to the Passive Income MD Podcast where we talk about creating your ideal life through multiple streams of income. If you enjoy hearing about this stuff, make sure to hit subscrib. Get on with the show. Hey everyone. This is an interview I've been looking forward to a for a very long time. You're going to find out why in just a moment. I'm excited to talk to Dr. Matt Eisman. I'm going to go ahead and read his bio here. He's a physician, he's a comedian and he's best known, probably best known as the host of the four time Emmy nominated show American Ninja Warrior. I watch it, my family watch it. It's been a ton of fun. You probably watch it as well too. He's also been on numerous other TV shows including he won Celebrity Apprentice. He's hosted events like the Macy's 4th of July specials and he's also actively involved with certain foundations, the Arthritis foundation, the American Cancer Society, using his platform and his personal battles with some of these conditions to fundraise and raise awareness. So we're talking about his journey. It's fascinating. I'm excited to talk to him today. Matt, how you doing?

I'm doing awesome, Peter. Thanks for having me on. That was a great introduction. Man, I sounded even, I was like, man, that sounds good.

That's. Well, you know, when I said American Ninja Warrior, I was like, man, I can't say it. Like Matt says it, Matt says it.

You know, American Ninja Warrior, that's my party Trick Peter. I do that and then it's like, what else do you got? I'm like, that's it. That's really all I got. I can. I can do a low level physical exam. But. But even that, that, that's. That's dated. Ninja Warriors. That's it.

That's. I love it. See, I can say it. I was like, man, when I say it, I can say it like him. But do you mind telling people, for some people that might not know what that show is, do you mind really quickly telling people what it is?

Yeah. So it's an obstacle course show. And if you ever remember the show, American Gladiators, or if you've ever seen a Spartan race, essentially what it is is we've created the world's most difficult obstacle course, and we put our competitors through it. But the. The real. The real show isn't the obstacles they overcome on the course. A lot of it is about what they overcame to get onto the course. And it's the stories we tell. And it's. It's really interesting being a part of it. And I also have the opportunity. I've covered the last two Olympics for NBC and Peacock, and you see the parallels with. With Olympics where. And I remember this is. As a kid, I was one of those guys like, I just want to see the sport. I don't want to hear the story. Just show me the sport. But you realize if you. If you don't have the story, you don't care nearly as much about the sport. And with the Olympics, and I think with our show, they do a good job of telling you, giving you a reason about what this person went through to get there so you understand the stakes for that person and what this means to them. And. And so it's been fun being a part of a show, too, that, you know, we've had. We just crowned our third winner in 15 seasons this past season. That means the other seasons, nobody won. Everybody falls. It feels like a show that's filled with failure and people falling. But when you watch it, what you realize is people can win in so many different ways. And so often the person who maybe falls on the first obstacle, but fought through stage four cancer or fought through substance abuse, or lost 120 pounds to get there, the win of getting to the start line is far greater than anything that could happen on the course, maybe other than winning $1 million, I'll grant you that. But it really has been fun to see people come on there and be able to share their stories and particularly having come from the medical world. We've had athletes on there with cystic fibrosis with all battling through all sorts of different cancers. We've had differently abled people. We've had above the knee amputees. Come on. We had someone who was legally blind come on the show. And it's, it's amazing when you see these people on the course because I think the metaphor then becomes in life, if they can do this, what's your excuse? What's your excuse for not trying something that you feel is outside your comfort zone or you feel that maybe you weren't born to do? And you see, our show teaches again and again that it's the hard work that matters. It's not just the talent you're born with. The athletes who do best on our show aren't the most talented. We've had NFL athletes come on and professional basketball players, but because they haven't trained for Ninja Warrior, they'll get blown away by a 32 year old weatherman who has four kids. So it's, it's really interesting where you get to see the, the benefits of hard work so clearly illustrated.

I love it because I can watch it with my whole family. And a lot of those lessons are taught. They remember those stories and it's such a great job that you guys do telling those stories. Now I have to find out about your background a little bit more. I mean, that's what probably, I'm sure people are curious about. You're a physician. Tell us a little bit about what your background is in medicine. And was there ever a plan to do something like this when you started your medical training and you were going.

Through all of that? No. Spoiler alert. No, this was not, this was not in the plan. So I think growing up, my dad was a doctor and he never pressured me to go into medicine. But what he did was set an example. I saw how satisfied he was with his job. He was a world renowned expert on tuberculosis at National Jewish Hospital, one of the top respiratory hospitals in the world. And he handled the patients that failed treatment around the world. This was the last ditch Hail Mary. And my dad was always likened himself to the athlete, being the one who would stride on there, you know, looking for that Hail Mary and would very often find it. And so I think through that example, as it came time for me when I was in college, thinking, what do I really want to do? I love science, I love people. And I saw the power of medicine as a career to be so satisfying. So that's what got Me into medicine. I was at Princeton undergrad, and then I went to Columbia Medical School and graduated with honors and then got into residency at the University of Colorado, where I was from, where my dad was a professor in internal medicine. And it was there that I slowly realized that while it was perfect for me on paper, this, this job, there was some disconnect, I felt. And you know, a lot of times in life you don't have to love what you do, you just suck it up. But, but for me, with the issue was I was going into a hospital and I had that sense, you know, we call it the Sunday blues back in. When you're in school as a kid going, oh my God, I gotta go to school. And I had this feeling going into the hospital and I thought, people are placing their lives in my hands and I'm not, I'm not. I don't feel 100% committed to being there. And I just started to realize, my God. And this fear started to grow in my head that I was going to miss something, that because I wasn't fully present, that because I wasn't fully invested, something was going to happen, it was going to cost someone their lives. And I just started to feel this, this impending sense of doom and dread that because I wasn't as invested, something bad was going to happen. And that's when I realized I had to kind of reevaluate what I was doing. So at that point, I'd done standup comedy a handful of times in med school and during training, and I thought, I'm gonna, I'd been, I'd been academics and athletics my whole life, never done anything creative. And I thought, I'm gonna do something completely different. I'm gonna move out to la, do stand up comedy. And Peter, in my head I thought, I'll be out there for a year, I'll get whatever this, this itch is out of my system. I'll, I'll grow up, I'll be an adult and I'll come back to medicine instead. I absolutely fell in love with performing. And it was within about three weeks where I thought, I think I found what I meant to do. And a few weeks after that, I was really lucky. I got into commercials when commercials paid. So you know this. And a lot of people may not be aware, but after medical school, after you spend four years paying a lot of money for your education, you go into your residency and with fellowships that can be anywhere from three to 10 to sometimes 15 years, depending on your specialty. And at that point, you know you're earning 20, 30, $40,000, your debt is growing. It's a very difficult financial situation. I, on the other hand, was making six figures in commercials and so all of a sudden I'm making more money. I found something I think I was really meant to do. And so the decision came, became a lot more easier not to go back. And I, when I'd gone out, it wasn't just burn the boats, we're going to make this work. It really was one of those things of all right, you're doing this, you have a. My program director said I have two years away where I could step back into my training. And so I kind of set some goals financially, accomplishments wise, just to make sure I was holding myself accountable here and not just going into a pipe dream. And I was meeting those and exceeding them. And so, you know, it made sense on paper and it made sense just in terms of my day to day happiness. I absolutely found something I love doing and I, I threw myself into it and I've been very lucky to. I'm closing in on. It'll be 25 years I've since I left and came out to Hollywood this year. So. And I'm still working, it's still working out. But my dad, my dad just passed away at the end of 2022 and he was a doctor and the man I most respected in life. And, and I will say he was so supportive of the change. He encouraged me every step of the way. But the thing he'd always say is, you know, you'll always be a Dr. Cham. And I was like, wow, maybe entitled but my knowledge base, someone got sick, I'd put leeches on him. Dad. So maybe, maybe I'll leave the medicine to the real docs.

Such a great story. How did you get over that initial hurdle of, you know, when you're in medicine and in training, like the path is set before you, you know exactly what the next step is and the next hurdle. When you were going into that world of, you know, throwing it all away, I'd say in a way or just, you know, venturing to L. A and doing all that, was there any fear like behind that? You know, I'm not sure exactly what I should be doing here. And how did you get over that hurdle?

So, and I said that a lot, Peter. I said, you know, it's, I think for a lot of people particularly end up in medicine, you're, you're going to be kind of type A, you're going to be overachievers and There is something where, you know, as early as. As early as starting high school, if you have an inkling, you start to know, all right, I got to work hard to get into college, and then I got to work hard to get into good graduate school, be it med school, business, law, whatever. And all of a sudden you see this treadmill mapped out. And particularly with medicine, where you go, you. You do med school, you do your residency, you do your fellowship, and you could see this where the next 20 years of your life could be plotted out right in front of you. And. But I will tell you the. For me, the fear wasn't necessarily stepping away from the treadmill, as I just had this fear as someone who I think was. I was also very much a pleaser, right? Particularly with my parents, I wanted to excel. I wanted to make them proud. And there was a fear about going, listen, I apparently can't be much more proud of a kid then who's following in his dad's footsteps, who's becoming a healer. And the idea of saying, hey, I got to take a step away from this and try something else, because I'm just not that in it. To me, that was the biggest hurdle. It wasn't necessarily stepping away from the security of the job. It was really more, what would my parents think, what would my friends think, what would the people in the program think? And it really just. I think I'd had the sense for a few months of this dis ease that there was something where I'm like, something needs to be resolved about this. And it really came to a head. I remember vividly it was a January in the middle of winter back in Colorado where I was in the ICU and we were getting slammed with patients. And I think we had seven admits in an hour. And I was there with a second year resident. You know, there was a fellow somewhere else in the hospital, but he just looks at me and he goes, start writing orders. And I'm writing orders knowing I'm going to have a backstop, knowing it's all going to be checked. But I thought, I'm making life or death decisions right now, and pretty soon I'll be the one. In a year, maybe more. But very soon, actually, it was at that point about six months, I'd be the one to start deciding if these are right. And that was the moment when I said, I can't. I can't allow myself to get to that point without this being resolved. And so that was the moment where I said, all right, I have to face my fears. Of bringing this up to my father and to everybody. And then, and I built it up and it took me another month and a half to actually have the courage to have the dinner with my, with my parents. And I've told this story many times where, you know, I sat my dad down and my mom's there and I said, I'm just not happy in medicine. I feel like I'm, I might not be meant for this. And I just want to step away and clear my head and I want to try stand up comedy. And my dad didn't miss a beat. He just said, life is short. Do what makes you happy. And, you know, my mom said there's no education that's wasted. Maybe a little bit wasted out here. But her point being, I think that with all of this, you grow and you bring this, this training and not just the knowledge, but more kind of what you've learned in terms of life. And I think medicine is very instructive because medicine can be very black and white. It is very life or death. And you, you know, you have things where I always love this. I had a professor who said, sometimes the disease doesn't read the textbook and you have to figure out what's going on when it doesn't make sense. And you have to make these choices. And I will say, when I came out to Hollywood, when I tried changing careers, having come from medicine, where you really are surrounded by life and death and where you really have to be accountable, you have to do the work every day, I think that served me very well when I came into Hollywood as someone, because I, you know, and I additionally had a fire under me of, you've got a year, maybe two, before you throw away an amazing career that you spend a lot of time and a lot of money on. So you got to go. And so I came out with the real fire and a drive and I think also an ability to withstand. As tough as medicine is, Hollywood is a very subjective business. And it is a business of no. And you will get told no 99 times before you hear a yes. And I think having gone through medicine and having had something that I felt I could point to is like, listen, I am accomplished, I am worthy. I have done something that made it a lot easier to withstand those no's. Because I see a lot of people who come out here and, you know, people come for different reasons, but for a lot of people, they didn't get the affirmations, the validations at home, they didn't get it in school, and they've Come out here seeking them. And it's very tough when you come out here looking for praise and affirmation when you're gonna get told no so much. So I think it's. It gave me a thicker skin that's allowed me to put up with a lot of the vagaries of being in a business where you could have a hit show. And by the end of the month, it's canceled.

I mean, again, it's such a fantastic story of perseverance and all of that. And I love how you weaved your background in medicine and the education and everything you learned and how it's played a role in your success today. But I'm curious, how did that translate from commercials to getting this big host on this big show, American Ninja Warrior, and then at what point did you start feeling successful?

I think good questions, because I've grappled with those a lot. So first of all, you know, when I came out here, I thought, I thought a, I was going to be a huge stand up comedian, and then b, I thought, I'm going to be the next Adam Sandler. I'm going to be doing this. And so I've been in stand up comedy for 25 years. I still go out and I'll tour the country and do shows. But when I got into commercials, that was because I'd played baseball in college and somebody called and they're like, hey, we need people who are plausibly baseball players to come out and be in this. It was the Drew Carey show. And I got on this Drew Carey show and there was an agent who said, I'll represent you on commercials. I got in the commercials. I was doing stand up comedy. And then I took a sketch comedy class just to try to hone things out. And someone there said, hey, I want to submit you for a hosting gig. And I never thought about being a host, but I went out and I booked the first audition I had for a hosting gig. I for a show on e Screenplay right there that was going to be a huge hit. And of course it wasn't. It tanked after a year, show was canceled. But the person who cast that show, cast another show, a whole makeover show. She's like, hey, we hired someone. It didn't work out, so we want you to fill in while we do a casting search for the permanent replacement. And I was like, great, I'll go into this home makeover show. And by the end of the first day, the executive producer came and said, I think we're just going to keep You. And so the show I did that failed led to this show that went on for five and a half years, that we won a daytime Emmy, and we had spinoff shows. It was crazy. And then that show led to another show called Sports Soup, which was the sports version of the Soup that was the same casting director. And that show only lasted 2 and a half years. But from that show, the person who was running Ninja Warrior saw me, and they said, hey, we want a guy who knows sports. We want a guy who's comedic. And they offered me the show Ninja Warrior. So that. That first hosting gig I got in 2004 led to the job I have today. And it led to me being on Celebrity Apprentice, where I ended up winning, raising a million dollars for charity, becoming buddies with Arnold Schwarzenegger. It led to me covering the Olympics, which, as an athlete, has been a dream come true. So it was one of those things when I. When I talk to people, I just believe in the power of saying yes, particularly when you're starting out, of saying yes to things that may seem small or things that may seem, you know, beneath you, where if you have free time, I will do a podcast, I will jump on with anyone. I'll go to a comedy show. Because I find, you know, some people are under the delusion that I'm so talented, people are going to kick my door down. But what you learn, particularly in this business, is there are people who are just as talented, and they're the ones kicking doors down, saying, look at me. They're the ones who are putting themselves out there. So I think when you're looking to transition to something, it's really incumbent upon you to throw yourself into it. And I say my philosophy is say yes until you have to say no, until you're saying yes to so many things, till you're so busy, till you're getting so divided that you're like, all right, now I have to start saying no. But until then, I find that you get so much better, you have so much more growth by putting yourselves in situations that are close to what you want to do, by going out and doing standup comedy, by acting, by. By getting into these ridiculous situations, being contestants on game shows. And so that's really been something that I think is always good advice for people, is to just say yes to things instead of waiting for that perfect thing in your mind. That's been my approach. I know a lot of people are, no, you create your idea, and you don't stop till you get it. I'm like, but Sometimes you get there in a very circuitous route. And I had no idea my career would end up being a host and that winning an Emmy and being Emmy nominated for hosting and, and being personality driven. But it's been one of the things where. Dance with the girl that brung you. I'm still doing this while working on other areas as well and developing it, but it's been very nice to find something where I've. I've. And now when you talk about success, I think. I think it's such a fickle business, Peter, where, as I mentioned, shows can be canceled in an instant for reasons that are beyond anything on paper or anything that we're aware of. And so I think for me, I started to feel successful once the show got on NBC. And once I started to see. When I started to see my friends, kids running around saying, oh, we're ninja warriors going around, that was when I felt like, all right, I'm a part of something now that has transcended television. And I also reached a part, a point, I think, where I started to feel confident, where there was a part of me that goes, I thought I was good at my job before, but now I was like, now I know I can host. I can. I can do this. I can do it in a lot of different ways. And I think having that proficiency and that confidence made it easier. Where if I go in for a job, I feel like if you're looking for something like me, then I'm going to make it hard for you not to choose me. If you're looking for something else, I still want to make you think, I don't know, maybe he would fit. And I think it's really been nice, kind of reaching the confidence where I've had enough, had enough success and enough validation in the career to really believe in my skills. And not to say I'm done developing and not to say you want to stop growing, but where you're like, I'm good now. How good can I get?

I love it. I mean, you know, you're a great example of physician who was able to, you know, take their background, try something new, transition, leverage the medical degrees, whatever it is, all the ambition, all of the education, and do something different. What do you think the potential is now that you've, you know, been down your path? What is the potential for other physicians who have other interests, have hobbies, passions? Well, take that and leverage that for something cool.

The greatest thing is that the barriers to entry have never been lower. Where, I mean, literally, we're Doing this, you could sit at home and you could create a broadcast that potentially could reach the entire world, right, that. That we all have us in our phones. You've got a 4K broadcast studio. You can go live, you can reach people, you can connect with people in ways you've never done before. So I think, you know, if you have a clear vision of something that you're looking to do, you can connect with people, you can start. You can start doing it. If people who want to be a TV host, you can start hosting, you can contact people at your local hospital, you can start doing interviews, you can get involved in this. So I think for. For people who are interested in doing more, it's never been easier to start. Now the trade off is. It's hard to break through because there is so, so much out there. But I think, again, as I've seen with Ninja Warrior, the podcasts that do well aren't necessarily the ones with famous people. Famous people will get you to tune in for an episode or two. But the ones who do the work, the ones who consistently have good content and are entertaining, they're the ones who have this slow build that all of a sudden becomes a. Becomes a big build. So for people who are out there thinking of doing something, I think, you know, the only limit is the amount of time and effort you're willing to put into it. But, you know, and here's the other thing I found, is that your accessibility to people who've done what you think you might want to do, I mean, I guarantee you, Peter, I know if people watching this email you or hit you up on social media, there's a good chance you're going to reply. These people have access where it's like, hey, how do I get to where you are? And I think we all are happy to share our journey and offer whatever insight we have and any encouragement. So I think, you know, it's just taking advantage of that. And a lot of people. You know, I remember growing up in Denver, which is not a small town, but I didn't know anyone in entertainment. I always thought I liked being the center of attention, but he wasn't even on my radar in terms of creativity. But now I don't care where you are. You're a click away from talking to the biggest stars in whatever field you're interested in, be it podcasting or vlogging or cooking shows or whatever it is. And your ability to follow these people and figure out, all right, what are they doing? What can I glean from that? I Think that we have, you know, there's no single recipe for success. But you're able to take a look at a lot of people's different recipes of how they got success and say, all right, what suits my skills, what suits my drive, what suits my time frame? And it is, it's really amazing. I think with social media, how easy it is to connect with people you admire and people you have questions for. I'm on social media way too much, and if someone takes the time to ask a question, I'm thrilled. I'm always happy to answer it if I see it.

I mean, what's new for you right now in your world? And where do you see yourself going in the next three to five years?

You know, I mean, for me, the goal is to get my, my own show that's more personality driven. Be it, you know, the idea like the, the goal was always a Tonight Show. I don't know if that's happening. It seems people don't watch that as much. But figuring out something with the Olympics, we, we got to do a really fun, kind of was almost a variety show where we would, we would be covering the sports, we'd have the athletes in and then we'd play games with them just to show different sides of them. And for me, I love that. I love kind of being well rounded where, listen, there are plenty of people who are going to be the Mike Tiricos who are going to go, you know, super deep into the nuts and bolts. I want it to be the show where it's like, let's show a different side of these athletes. You've, you've heard about what they did to prepare to get here, but let's find out about who they really are. And so something along those lines. I think I'm always fascinated by talking to people. It's the thing I love about Ninja Warrior is finding people who push themselves past levels they thought were possible. And with the Olympics, particularly people who push themselves to be the best in the world at something, especially when the reward is very often a gold medal, maybe a Wheaties box. And then you go back to your life and even, you know, even more interesting, the people who came close, who got the silver, or the people who came close, didn't make the team and never got the chance to show. Like, how do these people go on? What do they, what do they then. What do they then do with the skills they've developed? And so I think something along those lines. And a game show. I love game shows. I've gotten to be a celebrity contestant on game shows like 25 Words or Less or Pictionary. And I just get such a kick out of it because that's one of the things I remember growing up sitting in front of the TV watching Tic Tac Doe or Joker's Wild. In fact, my mom was a contestant on Password back in the 60s, and so it's really cool to be like, mom, I'm a contestant now, too.

That's so funny. People don't know this, but during residency, I got on a little game show too, and that was like a dream come true for me. And that was so much fun. It was called Bingo America. Very few people ever saw that, but it was so much fun. And so I can imagine that you've had a ton of fun in addition to all of the stuff you've been doing on those game shows.

Yeah, I know.

People going to hear this story. They're going to feel inspired. They want to find out more about you, what you're doing. Where's a great place for people to do that?

You can always check out my website, matt isman.com but, you know, honestly, social media, I'm particularly Instagram and. And Twitter, and I don't post nearly as much as I should. I mean, I think the last post I had was, I got engaged. And I was like, okay, I got to post this. Otherwise, congrats on that. Thank you. And we did it. And so this was another. This was the craziest thing is, like, I grew up, I worshiped Arnold Schwarzenegger. And back in 2016, I had a chance to go on Celebrity Apprentice when he took over, the old boss got a different job as. As we may recall and work with Schwarzenegger. And the show only lasted a season. I ended up winning. And he's like, you're going to stay my apprentice. And so for the last eight years, I've been traveling all over the globe hosting events with him. And we were in Austria together, and he knew he. He's met my girlfriend a number of times, and I told him how to ring. I was just waiting for a time to do it. And so he's like, do you want to do something special? And I'm like, yeah. And so we ended up doing a proposal that ended up on tmz. Secretary of State John Kerry was there. It was thousands of people, and it was just. It was over the top. It was great. And I just think back on that came about. I got asked to do Apprentice, and as terrified as I was when I heard Arnold Schwarzenegger's on. I'm like, I'm going to go do this. And now I'm buddies with him and I still have his poster on my childhood bedroom. And my mom goes, if I told you when you were 16 that you'd become friends with him, you know what you would have said, Matt? You would have said, of course I'm going to. I'm like, I wasn't that confident, mom. But it's amazing how it worked out. And, you know, I think it all kind of started from taking that initial yes. And ultimately, and this is the thing, I think when you're, when you, when you try to do something outside of what you've been doing, you're betting on yourself. And you know, with medicine, you bet on a career, you bet on the stability of it. You know, there's going to be that. With entertainment, it's such a fickle job. You realize, I'm not betting on any one gig, I'm betting on myself that I will find a way to work. And I think the, the more I, I get in life, the more I realize if I'm gonna bet on one thing, I want to bet on the thing that I control the most, and that's, I want to bet on myself.

I mean, it's so fantastic to see what you built. Congrats on your recent engagement. You know, you've already given us so much knowledge, so many great pieces of advice and inspiration. But before we let you go, we gotta ask you for just one more big tip or piece of advice for someone who maybe wants to follow in your footsteps or start something new or try a new venture.

Do it. You just got to start. You got to start. And so often people wait for the time to be perfect or, you know, for instance, we'll talk about comedy and entertainment. So wherever you are, most likely you could find an open mic near you. And some people like, well, I got to wait until everything written. It's like, yeah, just go. You don't even have to sign up. Just go. And you'll see the people and it'll get you to start writing. But, and people ask that too. And this is, you know, I'll give an example that's for very. Something specific, but I think is universally applicable when people like, well, how do you get better at stand up comedy? And it's like, you got to do it. You don't do it once a week if you want to get in shape. You don't go to the gym once a week, you go five or six times. You're, you're working on, and you're focused on your nutrition. And it's the same with comedy where, hey, you're going out, you're pushing your jokes, you're trying new things, you're always writing, you're always refining. And the only way you get over your stage fright, the only way you get more comfortable is, is just by doing it. There is no shortcut. I think in that sense of, you know, you can, you can, you, you just need the repetitions of doing that thing you want to do and, and what. Again, what's great is it's so much easier, particularly with entertainment, to start getting reps where you could start interviewing your kids, you could start interviewing the, the person at McDonald's who serves you lunch, you can just start getting reps and you don't have to share it with anybody, but you can set up a camera, you can start watching it and you can start critiquing yourself and you can reach out to other people and your local newscasters and say, you know, how would I get on? How could I get on as one time medical consultant to talk about something and, or how did you get on? What, what can I learn from you? Because there's, there's help in, in, in so many different ways. If you really get creative, if you really get hungry and you really want it and you really want to learn, so many people are going to be willing to help you. But it's just start doing it. Because there's never going to be a perfect time. And I find that the best way to build up momentum for it is to just get a taste of it. Like I always say with stand up comedy, you know, pretty quickly if you're meant to be on stage in front of people or not. And if you're one of those people who is, you get up there and you get a laugh, it is, it's like you're breathing oxygen for the first time after being trapped underwater. You're like, okay, I see what this feels like now I want more of it. And that really motivates you once you've got a taste. Because I think we can be motivated by fear or by positivity. And for me, you know, a lot of times we use fear. Oh God, I'm going to go broke or I won't have a job. But I like it when it's like, no, I love doing this and I can't wait to do it better. So it's always going to be a combination. But I like, I like having a positive pull of something.

Such a great story. I love seeing a physician out there doing some amazing things. I've seen you on TV a bunch. I know people have seen you. Now they're going to know the backstory and they're going to remember this interview. Thanks for all that you do. Honestly, this is going to be helping the physician community in a big way. Congrats on all your success and we're excited to see when you get your new show. We love to hear updates. We'll keep following you. And again, congrats on all your success.

I appreciate it, Peter. Thanks for having me on.

All right, let's talk again soon. Bye. Enjoy the show. Let me know by dropping a review in the podcast app you're listening to us at. And if you haven't already, be sure to hit subscribe. Join thousands of physicians who are also on this journey to creating their ideal lives through multiple streams of income. Learn more at our website, passiveincomemd.com thanks again for allowing me to be a part of your journey. See you next time.