#230 Overcoming Guilt and Finding Fulfillment as Physicians

Hey everyone. Today I'm excited to talk to a good friend of mine. Her name is Dr. Laura Sutton. Gonna go ahead and read her bio and then we're gonna talk exactly about what we're gonna be talking about today. She's a board certified family physician. She's a certified coach, a consultant. She is an author of a new book we're gonna talk about. She's a speaker and she's an entrepreneur. She currently practices in San Antonio where she is with her family. She's been there for a little while now, but what she's known for now is her, her business there. She's actually written a new book. It's called the purposeful MD Creating the life you love without guilt. This thing gets published now in October 2024. So whenever you're listening to this, it may be already out. She worked with a coach herself, found it so life changing that she became a coach herself. She's helped so many people through some of these concepts of empowering them to create the lives that they love without guilt. Talking about boundaries, doing all that. Who wouldn't want that? You know, in her spare time, she remains really, really active, especially her family, doing really fun stuff. I'm excited to talk to her today about all of these concepts and ideas that I think everybody can get something from. And of course, we talk a little bit about our book as well. Laura, how you doing?

Good. It's good to see you. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, I'm excited to talk to you. First of all, congratulations. You've had so many things go on recently. Like how does it feel to have all of these things that you're juggling. I know there have been some changes in terms of your medical career, all of that. Let's talk about that a little bit. How's it feel?

Yeah, it feels good. It feels good. I. So like you mentioned, I recently left my, my full time job earlier in 2024 to go all in on my coaching business. And it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's definitely sunk in. It took some time, but I love what I do. You know, I don't have the Sunday scares anymore. I wake up every morning and I'm just really excited to, to dive in and, and work with people and so, yeah, I love it.

Let's talk about a little bit about that transition again. For a lot of people, this is what we've done our whole lives. Trained to be a physician. Our purpose and all that was tied up in this. Like, how were you able to, to make that, that leap because I know it can be scary for a lot of people.

Yeah, it's, I think it was an evolution for me. I mean, part of my role within my, my job before was doing some coaching and a lot of mentoring and, and a lot of physician leadership. And I just really felt like I could have a bigger impact on people if I really worked with the physicians themselves and helped to empower the physicians and coach the physicians rather than in a one on one physician patient interaction myself. I loved coaching with my patients and teaching them. And so I felt like, well, that's the, my favorite part of the job. Why don't I do that with physicians and that I don't have to deal with a lot of the headaches that physicians deal with. And so, yeah, it's definitely been an evolution for me and I'm still, I'm still trying to figure that out. I don't know if I'm, if I've given up clinical practice completely because I do enjoy some aspects of it. So, but yeah, it's, it's different.

What are the major issues that people are usually coming to you for? Because I'd love to explore that. I know a lot of those might be universal, but they're probably something a little bit more specific. But again, what, what do you, what are the, what are the challenges that most people are facing?

I hear a lot of, I don't have time for the things that I love. I don't have time for myself anymore. I, is this all there is? You know, I worked so hard to become a physician and I, I don't feel fulfilled. My physical health is suffering, mental health is suffering. I don't do any of my hobbies anymore. I don't do the things that I used to enjoy. So a lot of those just kind of like, yeah, I'm not fulfilled in life any longer. I want something more.

I mean, do you think this is a newer phenomenon? I mean, again, is this a, you know, a generation, generational thing that we're dealing with today as physicians? Like, why do you think that's the case?

I, I, I don't know if it's new. I, I mean, I do see a lot of it in, in our generation, just this sense. And I know you see this too, and this is why you created your business of the sense of like, well, maybe 30, 40 years ago, physician becoming a physician was financially lucrative and you know, we could create this generational wealth for ourselves and create the sustainable lifestyle. But it's, that's not the, the Case for everybody. And so we have to seek something outside of ourselves. You know, you created passive income indeed because we have to create wealth outside of our business. And I think there's a sense now that our work life is not, it's not everything about us, it's not who we are and it's not creating that lifetime that, that sense of fulfillment that we maybe thought it was or maybe that future generations previously had. I mean we're dealing with EMRs and insurance regulations and all these administrative burdens now that a lot of our predecessors and our mentors and attendings didn't have to deal with. And so yeah, I think there is some, some newness to it.

I mean, how do you deal with somebody who says okay, I don't even think it's possible, I don't think it's possible to be a physician, be a mother or father, have my hobbies, do all of that and feel fulfilled. Like when people come to you with that, I mean that's a lot that people are coming to you with, right? How do you respond to that and how do you, what do you tell people?

Yeah, I think there is and I don't remember who said it, so I'm not, I'm not going to take credit for it, but is, you can have it all, but just not all at once. And so I think a sense of we can, we can still have these different aspects of ourselves in our life and also the reality of well, I can't, I can't work 40 to 60 hours a week in my job and be present 100% for everything that is going on in my kids lives and help care for my aging parents. And like we, we can't, we can't do all the things and yet we can still find fulfillment in and doing what we really enjoy. And I think a lot of us have this sense that we have to be everything to everybody and that's just not possible. So even that insight is, is a really big kind of aha moment for a lot of people. And you have to really get to what are the things that I truly value in life and what are the non negotiables that I'm going to set for myself? And once that's, once that's clear, then it's easier just to make decisions around that.

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So I, yeah, I don't know if it's present in other careers as well. What I see is that as physicians, we, in our training, we are rewarded for pleasing everybody else around us at the expense of ourselves. Literally rewarded for it. So as a med student, as a resident, as a fellow, you did what you were told, whether that, whether that task was going to be helpful or not. I mean I, you know, I was old enough to, or I am old enough to remember going to the basement to physically pick up X rays for morning rounds. And sometimes we had to dig for the films ourselves because the, the library folks weren't even there yet. It was like 4 o' clock in the morning. So we had to go fetch things like X rays or maybe even coffee for our attendings. And you know, those things weren't necessarily a part of our training, but we did them because our grades were dependent on how well we carried out these tasks. Whether or not we got the coveted internships or rotations or, or letters of recommendation or grades. I mean, so we, we were conditioned Pavlovian style to do the things that didn't necessarily have value for our education or weren't necessary for us in order to succeed. And so we have a really hard time saying no. And that carries over into other aspects of our life. And so when a physician who is a full time attending practicing physician practice business owner is in these situations where other people are asking them, can you see that extra patient? Can you fill out these forms at no charge? Can you, can you just call for the prior auth. And it's something that maybe somebody else could do. They just have a. What's Ingrained in us. They have a really hard time saying no to those things and feel a lot of guilt that comes along with it.

And then what are, like, the. The consequences that you see? I mean, you probably. That's when people come to you, usually when they're at kind of a wall. Are they dealing with that kind of thing? Like, what do you see as kind of like, I guess, the consequences of that? Yeah, kind of continually.

Yeah. I mean, burnout for. For sure. I see we talked about physical mental health, suffering, people not being able to sleep at night because they're up all night charting or doing things that. Taking care of the house, the kids, whatever that looks like. So a lot of times the job performance suffers. Maybe their patients are starting to become unhappy. Patients are starting to complain. Maybe there's some conflict at home within partnership or with kids. There's. There's just kind of this lingering feeling of like, I can't. I'm not able to keep up with everything that's on my plate. And most people just start to have physical symptoms of it. They're exhausted, not sleeping well, not eating well, not taking care of themselves. And so any one of those things can just kind of cause somebody to feel like, yeah, I need some help, or I need. I need a way out of this.

I mean, there might be some people either watching or listening to this that probably resonate with this feeling. And so I. I know the big question for everybody becomes. I mean, we're all problem solvers. Like, what are some of the steps that people can take to kind of start digging their way out of this, to start moving in the right direction or if they recognize this, like, what are some of those steps that people can take to help with this scenario?

Yeah, I think really the first is just the recognition is that I can't. I can't do it all. Something has to give, and that means that I will have to say no to something and somebody that will probably disappoint them. And just even before you get to that point, just recognizing, like, something has to give. And so that in and of itself is huge, that kind of awareness. Right. And then it's okay, what's something small? You know, we don't necessarily need to. I'm going to clear my schedule and say no to everything all at once. But what's something small? I talk about boundaries a lot. What's a small boundary that you can set? Or something small that you can say no to? Maybe it's a request at your child's school or something in the community or something that's really. Is a, maybe a small ask or something that's lower on the priority list that, that somebody's asking of you, that you can say no. That's. I'm, I'm not available to do that right now. I wish I could, but I can't. So starting small and then when that builds confidence, when you start to do that and it has a. Create some momentum and when you, once you have that, then it's easier to say no to the bigger things.

What are some. Again, I struggle with this too. I'm definitely a yes person or I want to please people. I've always had that people pleasing aspect to my personality. I, I do have a hard time saying no to a lot of people. So how much of that is a learned skill in a way to figure out how to say no to people? Is that, is that something that people can learn to do better? I mean, you say it, you know, but like what, what are some things that people do to be able to get better at that?

Yeah, I definitely think it's a learned skill. I mean, I've struggled with it too, and I still struggle with it, which is partly why I wrote the book. Because it was something that had, had been such a challenging thing for me in my life. And I tell a lot of personal stories in the book about things that I had done when I was younger and, and how that's impacted me. And so I, I get really vulnerable in the book about, about how I've had to do things differently. So I do think it is a learned skill. It does come with practice. It's not easy. And a lot of what we talk about with setting boundaries and saying no, the, just like anything, the more you do it, the easier it gets. But it does sometimes cause guilt. And you know, that's the other. Like you said, the other part of the title is creating the life you love without guilt. It's not about never having guilt. I still feel guilt. And when I have to say no to people or, or set boundaries, there still can be an element of guilt, but I recognize it a lot more quickly. And then I kind of, you have to talk, I talk myself out of it and, and just recognize like I'm doing the best I can and I don't have, I really don't have anything to feel guilty for here. And noticing that that guilt when it comes up is, is kind of an old version of myself. And if I can recognize that and, and honor that and say, yeah, maybe the old part of me would have felt guilty or I feel guilty because it was conditioned in me to, to say yes to everything. It just takes a little bit of that kind of judging voice out of it.

I maybe can help me in my situation. I mean, what I've done is. And you can kind of help coach me through it. But the way I've started approaching these situations when I know I should say no or I want to say no is one thing that I guess has helped me is to start thinking about what the, you know, by saying no, it opens up some opportunity for something else for me to say yes to. And that has allowed me like, again, it's not just a loss when I say no. I, I tend to think, oh, they're going to be upset with me or, you know, I'm letting myself down, or this. But focusing a little bit more on that positive side of, okay, well, if I get to say no to this, I get to do this. I get to have this. I get to, you know, have this opportunity. Is that, is that kind of a, like, like a way to think about this? It's worse for me. But I don't know if that's kind of how you coach or.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. If that works for you, then, then great. And I know that one of your skills and passions too is connecting other people and, and promoting other people. And so also, if there's somebody that, you know, that could, could do that task, if you're saying no to and say, you know, I know who would be really great for this because that's something that you enjoy, then that might be helpful for you as well. And so I agree that that's something that, you know, if we can kind of find what it is that will motivate the person in some instances. And it sounds like, you know, you're, you realize that when I say no to this, I'm saying yes to something else. And then also maybe suggesting somebody else for that project or that task could be helpful for you too and help kind of fill that cup for you of connecting two people that, connecting the need and the, you know, the supply and the demand.

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Yeah, people sleeping better, connecting with their children more, connecting with their families more, connecting with their patients more. And so it might not be about having somebody move away from clinical practice, but really find that joy in the practice. Again, getting promoted. I've had, I've had very specific, a very specific situation where somebody said no to something that he was asked to do and then about three weeks later it was offered a higher level position. I'm not saying that they were, it was a cause and effect. But I, I do believe in the energy of the universe and that his advocating for himself directly led to him being offered a leadership position. Yeah. Moving into creating businesses for themselves, creating a life for themselves that, where they have the freedom and the joy. Improve physical health. I mean I had one client whose blood pressure got better. She wasn't having chest pains anymore. Non anginal. But still it, I've seen marriages get stronger. Like the, the possibilities are endless in these situations.

I love it. And so, I mean I know the, you know, you're excited about the, the launch of this book. I mean, well, what prompted you to actually write a book? Because I, again I've, I, I know how big a feat that is and I know it took a lot of work to do that.

So like I, I found myself enjoying the creative process and expressing myself in writing and I felt like I wanted to share my stories in a personal way and share some stories of My clients and to just help everybody see that you don't have to stay stuck. And it's okay to. To do these things, to say no, to set boundaries and. And to put yourself first in these situations. And I. One of my. My goals is to help support and coach as many physicians as possible. I'm on a mission to coach 5,000 physicians. I don't know if I'll ever get there, but even if I can't coach somebody, if they can read the book, then really, that will get them started. There's a lot of journaling prompts and really reflective exercises in the book that can help somebody. It's not just about reading the material. And, okay, yeah, I know I should do this, but let's. Let's really dig into this with you, and let's think of an area where this is a challenge for you, and how can you do this differently going forward? How can you take action? So that was really what drove me when the process did get challenging, because it certainly did.

That's cool. I mean, again, I've known you for many years now, and I've watched this transformation, even for you personally. And now you paying it forward to help so many physicians do something very similar. I think that's been inspired for me, which is why I'm so excited to talk to you about this. If people want to find out more about you, they want to hear, you know, again, connect with you in some way. Like, where's a great place for people to do that?

Yeah, my website, the per. It's the purposefulmd.com. i've got a great worksheet on there about setting boundaries. Great exercise to go through. If there's something you want to get started, I've got information on my book there, and if you go to my website where it says, I'm ready to get started, that's a direct link to my. To my calendar to book a call with me. So that's the best place.

Awesome. Well, thanks for the time. I know you're really busy, but like I said, you create good boundaries around you. So you. I know you. Your time is intentional in what you do. Again, I've just watched an awesome transformation in you, and now you're helping so many people out there. If anybody's interested, of course they should. Look, check out the purposefulmd.com. i'm excited to see where this goes for you from here, and I know you're gonna help so many people. So let's talk again soon. Okay?

Thanks so much, Peter.

All right, thanks. Bye. Enjoy the show. Let me know by dropping a review in the podcast app you're listening to us in. And if you haven't already, make sure to hit subscribe. Join thousands of physicians who are also on this journey to creating their ideal lives through multiple streams of income. Learn more at our website, passiveincomemd.com thanks again for allowing me to be a part of your journey. See you next time.