#25: Live Q&A - Ask Me Anything, Part 2

Foreign welcome to the Passive Income MD podcast where we talk about creating your ideal life through multiple streams of income. I'm your host, Peter Kim. If you enjoy hearing about this stuff, make sure to hit subscribe so I can bring it to you every week. Now let's get on with the show. All right, so let's talk about this. What is the best way of utilizing suspended passive losses without rep status? So just to clarify for people what they what he's talking about is that when you buy a rental property, whether you own it or whether a company buys it, and you invest as a limited partner, there are some amazing tax deductions that occur, something called depreciation. And often because of those tax deductions that are taken, even though you as an investor have probably taken in rent or you've taken some income in, you've gotten some distributions. Actually what it shows on paper, especially these days with some of the laws that are in place, actually on paper, it actually shows a net loss, which is pretty cool, which means that you're getting gains, you're getting cash flow, but you were showing on your tax returns negative, like a negative income. And so you don't have to pay taxes on those, especially right now. I mean, later on it's possible you can when you sell the property. Okay. But for now you're not paying any taxes on this. Those are essentially deferred. Now those are these losses that you're getting. You're probably gaining all these excess losses. Now what do you do with that? Can you offset your position income with that? You know, can use a loss to offset that. And wouldn't that be amazing if you could. And so people used to do that back in the day, but the government got smart to that high income professionals doing this all the time, using those net losses to offset some of their professional day job income. And so the government kind of put a wall in between those things called one like kind of your active day job income. And again, I'm keeping this really simple, simplifying it and then your passive income, like your real estate on another end. So what happens that you weren't able to kind of cross those, those, you know, the losses to this side. Now there's something called real estate professional status that you may have heard a ton about. Both on my blog, on my friend's blogs, Kenji and Latee from Semi Retired md they talk about it quite a bit as well. Talking this thing called real estate professional status where these losses, if you meet certain qualifications, you do real estate enough more than you do as your day job, as a physician, or you or your partner does. And again, there's certain hours requirement and things like that. But it's possible to be. Then those negative losses can offset some of your active income, which is crazy because it basically means that if I go out and buy an apartment building, and let's just use an example where you buy an apartment building that's like $1.2 million, for example, and you know, the purchase $1.2 million, it's possible. And it's just a rule of thumb that about 25% of that can be written off in the first year. So as a loss. So let's just say 1.2, that's 300,000 is about 25% of that. So it's possible if you have this real estate professional status, and this is just a very basic assumption rule of thumb, it's possible to write off against $300,000 of income on the other side of your active income. It's possible. And that's something I benefited from last year. I'm going to benefit from it this year. And so that's real estate professional status. So people are saying, but what if I don't qualify? What if I can't use that against that? Like, what can I continue to do? So the way that some people offset that is that you build up those things over time and you're able to carry those losses forward. I know a lot of people, they, you know, they just, they sell off their apartment buildings and they buy another one. Or a lot of times, if you're in some of these active investments like syndications and funds, you also, by the way, get these, you know, negative income loaded up on your K1s. Those things pile up. But when you go to sell, you're going to show a profit. And so people sometimes offset. You're able to offset some of those with, you know, those passive losses with some of your gains from your, you know, your, your passive real estate, for example, syndication of funds, when those end at that term, you get paid out. And so there's some ways that some people, you know, that's how all these income start to start, start balancing and really offsetting each other. Let's see, I got the rest of your question. Those syndications use up the losses efficiently. They can, yeah. I mean, it depends on how much you're investing, I guess. But you know, I would say for some people, again, if you're not sure what syndication is, it is a way of passive real estate investing. It is means that people Pull their money together to buy a rental property or whatever it might be. And you as an investor, you can go in there as a limited partner and own a share of that building. For example, my very first deal that I ever did invested in, in terms of what's called a syndication, was an apartment building about five miles, less than five miles from my own house. It's like a 28 unit building if I remember exactly. And the minimum there was $25,000. So I invested $25,000 in that. And yeah, I mean that's, that was my very first indication. And that's like kind of the idea. And I got one point, you tell me 1.04% of that building is what I own for the amount that I put in. So anyways, so how much ever you invest in there, of course the, the benefit and the gains on the backside can be huge or tremendous. You best a hundred thousand dollars. You know, that thing exits in anywhere from three to seven years and you get a big payout at the end. Yeah, it's nice to have some passive losses already kind of building up so that when you, when you sell that thing or when you, when the deal ends, that it can offset a lot of those gains. That's a beautiful way. All right, let's see our syndications. I'm involved in giving out distributions or building up reserves, a little bit of both. I found, I found that what he's asking is that the syndications and these passive real estate investments often are set up to pay you on a quarterly basis. They give you all distributions, whether that's 6%, 8%, you know, sometimes it used to be 10 is what I used to see a lot on your money. And that's kind of what they expect. They pay you on distribution like that. Now during the time of COVID at the end of the first quarter, distribution at the end or March or when everything started to hit, even the second one, people got a little scared. We didn't know how are people with all the unemployment that's happening, are people going to pay the rent and are, you know, these properties can have a problem paying some of their mortgage. Are they going to get enough income people to do that? So I found that most companies, most syndications and operators were pretty conservative, especially that with that first quarter payment and because they didn't know what was going to happen. And so I think a lot of them saw what happened and they actually found that vacancy or occupancy was still very high. A lot of people were still paying. It helped that the government was pumping money by giving people stimulus checks. But I think they felt a lot more comfortable. And so a lot of them started to give out at least a small amount of distribution. And so what I've started to do is see, you know, who's paying them out. And I would say a good portion of them, a good portion are still paying distributions, but at a lower amount. Now what they're required to do, I guess in a way, or what they should do is that they will make sure that they promise a certain amount of return for you on a quarterly basis. It's like your, what's called your preferred return, meaning that, you know, before they get paid out, before any profits paid out, they make sure you get paid up to a certain percent first where they participate in these profits. And so just know that even if they don't pay a smaller amount, their goal ultimately over time and this incog is to even that out to pay you your preferred return. So I'm actually all for right now a lot of these companies being a little bit more conservative because I'd rather have them be conservative and then in this time, right now, and make sure that they are running well, operating well, because especially on the backside of this, I want them to make, make that, make, make it through this, through this time, because I think on the backside of this they will flourish. I still believe that. And so the ones that being conservative are going to be poised to do well. So not all of them are paying out right now. Some of them are holding back a little bit, but at least they've been in communication about that. If your company hasn't been, then you need to reach out to them and figure out what are they doing, what's the plan for this. And you as an investor have every right to ask that. Hope everybody's doing well. There's some questions coming up here. I am just doing a QA session. It's going to be a matter of time before my kids start coming running up here. And so I'm holding them off as long as we can. We're talking about all sorts of things. Life hacks, passive income streams. I did mention my course, Passive Real Estate Academy, by the way. I have to just at least plug it here while we're talking about these things, we're going to be talking about how to do the proper due diligence for these real estate investments. Minimize your time from years trial and error, losing money. The goal is to condense this down into a very, very thing where you're a busy Professional that we wanted to condense it down to four weeks for you to get this done. Learn, avoid mistakes, have a community of people to help you through this process and get it going. And so once you kind of get in there, you have lifetime access. And you're part of this investor club that I have for life, where you talk about deals present. We have sometimes some exclusive deals that are just for our platinum investor club because there's only a certain amount of availability. So we vet them, and we want you to vet them, too, because you see stuff. I don't see, people see stuff. So that's been the power of this thing. We have hundreds of people in there now. You have hundreds of people signed up for this now. But I think that, you know, the more the merrier. But I'm talking. But right now, I'm answering any sort of questions that you have right now. Okay, I'm gonna start pulling in some of these questions. Good questions are coming. Let's start with this one. What's the best way to start investing in real estate? I actually get asked this all the time. Like, what's the first step? Best start investing in real estate. And I tell people there's no real one perfect way or perfect step to get started. First key is that you get started, right? You start something. But I did write a blog post recently because I got asked by it so much like the seven best first steps or seven steps to take when investing in real estate. So you can look for that. And they're pretty generic and simple. But I tell them, look, it's any of these get started. The first thing that I tell people to do is, like, the best way to get started. You got to figure out why you're investing in real estate. Like, what are you trying to achieve? Because it is one vehicle of many. I have to admit, it's not the only vehicle to achieve whatever you want to achieve, whether it's financial freedom, cash flow, you want to create legacy or generational wealth. You want to run a business essentially, like, kind of. Basically, you kind of satisfy the entrepreneurial bug that you've had your life. I mean, real estate does that for a lot of people. You're passionate about it. Maybe you. Some people love to. They love the. It's basically like a game for them. It's just. It's a sport, you know, you have to know why you want to invest in it and want to make sure that real estate is the best vehicle to help you achieve those things. And for me, I can just tell you right off the bat, for me, it was about control. I want to control my life, meaning that I want to control my income. I didn't want. I knew what was happening in medicine. You, everybody knows. When I ask people to raise up, when I go to these conferences and I ask questions, I say, how many people here expect medicine for you as a physician, financially, to be better for you in five years or 10 years as people raise their hands? Very few people expect it to be better financially. In fact, people know that increased regulations increase, you know, hospital control, private equity control, whatever's happening in medicine, corporatization of medicine, wherever we're going with this, financially, as a physician, less and less control for you. And I think everybody pretty much agree on that for the most part. And so I saw myself going that way. So I wanted control, I wanted the financial freedom. I wanted that hedgehog against whatever happened. And I was like, I look for all the different vehicles to achieve that, whether it was through, you know, stock market, whether it was starting my own business, whether it was real estate, whether it was lottery tickets, whatever it was, right? Investing in Bitcoin. I looked for whatever that might be. And it seemed like the thing that made the most sense for me was real estate. I saw so many physicians that were doing it and achieving what I wanted to achieve. So I was like, look, I'll just model them. I'll just like, just tell me what to do, you know, I'll model them. And so that's what's worked out for me. So you got to know why you're doing it and will achieve the goals that you want, right, or cash flow and that sort of thing. Then, yeah, the next thing you got to do is start educating yourself. So simple books, podcasts, courses, whatever it is to accelerate your learning, start learning. But I can tell you that as physicians, we feel like we're so used to doing the learning that we have to know everything about something before we make that decision. Because, you know, whenever we make those decisions, they're critical. So we need to make sure we weigh all the things, evidence based. We do all these things. But in investing, oftentimes it's unpredictable. Unfortunately, we can't have that kind of control. So you can learn up to a certain point, but at certain point, you have to just take action and start investing. And you're going to learn, number one, and you're going to start on the journey and you're going to get going, because nothing happens, nothing changes if you don't start investing. So I have friends from five Years ago who say, like, look, I just waited for the perfect opportunity. And still five years ago, and still to this day, they've done nothing. And so I tell. Encourage people to kind of get started with something that is safe for them and makes them feel comfortable and get going. And so I. I just start learning, read blogs, podcasts, all those things. Forums. Bigger Pockets Forum is an amazing forum for people. They're interested in looking at that. And then again, find mentors and model people in the space. So find people that have achieved what you want to achieve. And I tell people this all the time, don't listen. And it has been for me, I don't. I would say don't listen, but I don't. I don't give as much people credit like when it. When they say something if they haven't actually done it before. So for somebody who says, like, all right, this is horrible, or this is no good, or you can't do this, but they've actually never tried it or they're not successful at it. Those are not the people that I listen to. I listen to people who are successful in that thing have. Maybe we're in the same place that I was in, and. And I just essentially try to model them. I try to. As much as unique as I think I am, as unique as you probably think you are, there's somebody who was in your very similar shoes and has accomplished what you want to accomplish. And it's been always been that way. So find good people, model them, and then find that community and ask people questions. Because that's the very first. One of the first things I did when I started investing in real estate was that I found four other physicians in the hospital that were investing in real estate or interested in investing in real estate. So the five of us, well, end up being five couples. The five couples, we all started getting together at somebody's house over dinner. They were all physicians, but we're talking about real estate. And so it was a way to accelerate my learning, accelerate my growth. And I would say find people. Find a couple people to learn from and learn with. Best way to track your syndications. You know, that's a great question, Royce. And that is problematic as it can be. Cause it's just like any other investment. So if you're. Luckily, if you have a brokerage, like a stock brokerage, it's all laid out for you. So it's really easy. So I haven't found a great way to, like an automated way to do your syndication. You just. There's just no automated way. Well, if somebody wants to create something with me, I'm happy to kind of entertain that idea. But so what I do is I just have. I have a spreadsheets. I have spreadsheets. I have templates for that where I keep track of my, my, my syndications. Literally put simple addresses, how much money I put in my starting date. I put the characteristics between, like, what did they promise their preferred returns, what is their promised return? Something called IRR and equity multiple. It's going to now, but those kind of things. And then, you know, I put any sort of distinguishing information about who the sponsors are, what their contact information is, and then. And that sort of thing. And then I also have, you know, I guess I can do quarterly reports or whatever. So that's probably something I could do. You're right, Royce. And I usually do it myself because I like to look at it. But that's another thing you probably have a VA do if you ever wanted to. You can keep a spreadsheet going every time you get a quarterly update, or you get something like that, or you get a distribution. Listen, you probably just send that information up to VA and that person can organize that on a spreadsheet for you. That's probably a great idea. But again, if anybody has an idea on software that can help you do that in a very quick, easy, efficient way, I'm down to talk. Yeah, personal capital is great for those people who don't know what that is. It's an online platform to measure and track your net worth and your accounts. It's great because laid out in one place, but all you can do is literally put in your own initial investment. But you have to update yourself anyways. So it's not super helpful in that regard. Seems like syndication deal flow has really slowed or stopped in the past few months. What do you think? Have the sponsors you work with started improving deal flow? Yeah, I've noticed that too. And I think it's normal in this market. And I think what's this, what this market is going to show. And the cool thing is it gets. There have been a lot. There's been a lot of money in syndication. So a lot of people this how it ends up in any market where there's a stock market or whatever. Like, people start piling in both on the professional side and as well as investors. So I think what's going to happen is there's going to be another shake up in the next couple, you know, years is that the cream rises to the top type thing. And so hopefully when you've done your due diligence, pick the sponsors to invest with. You've known what to ask them, you've known who to look for. And the ones that have been through multiple cycles, those are the people that will continue to do well, especially in this time. And maybe there will be. Maybe they're being super conservative and the deals aren't coming as they would. A lot of that is because financing, because financing froze up. It froze up like crazy for those. And nothing happens in terms of deals without financing. That's the backbone of everything. So you have to understand that concept. But I know that because I was trying to refi some of my own properties, I was trying to refi my own house, refund someone. First of all, when Covid hit initially it was completely locked out. Banks were scared. They had no idea what was going on. So all these deals that could have happened, would have happened. A lot of them totally just got frozen. And that's probably a good thing because again, gave a pause a lot for the good, the good people to figure out how to shake, you know, push these things through. And that's, that's what I'm finding, that things are now getting pushed through in terms of deals and financing. But there's. The banks are a lot more concerned and they're a lot, a lot more concerned about how this is going to go. And by the way, whenever they talk about financing in the bank, the bank is actually essentially another partner, meaning that they are banking on that property and the people are running it. And the sponsors, like somebody has, they have to agree to be able to do that and be part of that deal. And so they actually help to manage and everything. And they actually are finding a good, reputable lender and that sort of thing to partner with as well. At least knowing who those are is, is important as well. So it's slowed and stopped, definitely, but I'm slowly starting to see some kind of come back. But I would say it's going to be slow and that's okay. You just have to be selective and choosy about who you invest with. A lot of these deals have been in the works for, you know, six months, year, two years. So you're going to see, still see some of that push through. Again, look for conservative underwriting, look for these deals that withstand a high amount of vacancy. Expect that. I mean, I've talked to some people that are cooking into their numbers, are expecting up to 30% vacancy. I mean, people still might be living there, but they're not Paying rent. So that's also considered a vacancy, economic vacancy. So look for that. It'll be there. I wouldn't be in a rush to go out and look for everybody, but still think there are good sponsors out there. But the ones that are telling me they're still looking at opportunities, especially some of the funds right now that have that capital, they're starting to see some of these deals that other, like I said during this time there will be some opportunities that will pop up because some sponsors, they weren't ready, they weren't prepared for this moment. And so again, there will be opportunities for, for the cream of the crop to rise. Somebody had private messaged me about like for the course. They said, can spouses take it as well? Yeah, we want your spouses to be a part of this. That is a team sport, I believe, when it comes to investing. And these aren't small amounts. So we want your spouse to be as informed as they want to be. And so these are big decisions for your life, your career. It's important to be aligned. And I think that, I think everyone who knows who you know, is married or has long time partner understands that alignment in terms of financial kind of pathways or interests or goals is absolutely important and necessary actually for a thriving relationship. So we are all for that and we welcome spouse, spouses and partners into the group in the learning as well. So there you go. Okay, so have I done any joint ventures with contractors or non physician investors? Joint ventures, I mean I've invested in companies that are not physician based, that's for sure. Have I bought a, a property personally with one? No, I bought one property with a partner. He's a physician though. He's a dermatologist. He's a friend of mine and we work really well together. And so that's the only one I've done with a non physician on that level. But I have invested in, I mean pretty much everybody else that I'm investing in terms of these syndications and funds are not run by physicians for the most part, and they're non physicians. And how do you know who to trust? That is everything actually. That is everything we talk about. I always say that when you vet an opportunity, the number one thing is you got to know who you're investing with. Because a good operator or syndicate or sponsor, whoever might call it, can make, make or break a deal. It can make, take an okay deal, make it great or do well. I could take a great deal and tank it. So you got to know who you're investing with. And obviously, if there's a level of fraud there, you know, that's something. Of course, they can crush a deal. So you have to know what to ask and what to look for in the. What's called the private placement memorandum in the offering, in the offering deck, know what to ask in terms of questions, to look for their assumptions, to look for red flags, you know, even talk about. What I would also do, and I always try to do, if I can, is talk to other people who've invested with them, look at their track record. But there's just so much to it that I can't talk about right now. But, yes, you need to spend the time, because it's all about that. Because once you invest in the deal, especially these passive real estate investments, they're truly passive, meaning that you put your time in and money up front to do that. And then once the deal's going, it's a beautiful thing if it goes well because you're getting paid on a quarterly basis, whatever it is, you're just getting distributions into your bank account. And that's as passive as it can get, in my opinion, especially when it comes to real estate. And so that's one of the reasons I utilize that, you know, significantly. And just so you know, when people ask me what's what percentage of my portfolio is active versus passive, right now, it's actually split pretty 50, 50. So I both do active and I do passive as well because they both have their benefits. There aren't always times when I find a good property to purchase. Sometimes I don't have that full amount of capital, nor do I expect it to buy, like a property at scale that I want to buy. But maybe I have a good fund or a good syndication opportunities there, and I might have 25, $50,000 for it. I'm like, let's go for it. This is a great opportunity. I want to get in. And so. But again, you have to know up front how to do all this stuff. And so spend the time learning to know how to do that really, really well. Anybody else have any questions? I'm gonna. We're gonna end this here pretty quickly. I'm gonna take a. Maybe a few more questions as we go. Again, I'm so grateful for you guys tuning in. Hopefully these are a lot of value. What I'm trying to do is try to do a lot more of these live sessions, both Q and A's and with the experts. I haven't been as good as I wanted to be, but we're going to get them on here because I really enjoy doing these and I think it brings a lot of value to you. I have a question here from Tina. So Tina, I'm going to read this real quick. If a sfh for those who don't know what that is, sfr, sfh, probably they're talking about as a single family home has already appreciated greatly in the last six years of ownership, but rents are not rising much. Is it wiser to sell it and buy one to two different single family homes through a 1031 exchange at a lower price point? That may be slightly lower and in a less desirable area? Wow. Okay, this is a great question, but it's hard to answer this. First of all, it depends on the market, depends on what your goals are and what you're trying to do with it. I know some properties, I have some friends who own single family homes where the rents are not rising very much, but they're completely stable. And I think when you buy single family homes, to be honest with you, you're not expecting a whole amount of rent growth quickly. And the reason I think that is is that the, one of the benefits of single family rentals is that there isn't a lot of turnover. I find the people who are renting homes versus renting apartment buildings are completely different. People renting homes are usually, well, it depends. But oftentimes if it's like a three bedroom, two bath house, who's going to rent that? I mean it's going to be families, usually a couple with a couple kids or something like that. And usually those type of people are looking to be in that home for a little while. And so you're not expecting to jack up the rent every year, but you are with maybe apartment that, you know, comes and goes and that sort of thing. I find that people rent, you know, they invest in single family homes for the stability for the high quality tenants and again, less possible, less management headaches. And that's, that's one of the goals of single family homes. Now could you buy that, could you sell that and buy two different homes, you know, that are in lower price points. But just know that when you hit lower price points, just so you know, yes, your yield might be higher, meaning that your cash flow on a percentage basis may be higher. But you know, when you go to a different price point in rentals, when you go to a different market, you gain a whole set of possible other headaches that you can anticipate. For example, I have a couple single family homes as well, or duplexes and they are in very, very higher end markets actually. But they are amazing because tenants just live there for a long term and it cause very little headache. And to be honest with you, like I'm trying to leveraging my time as much as possible. I don't even think about it. Management takes care of it and they achieve what I want to achieve in terms of a cashflow basis. Right now I've just kept those. And yes, I could sell them off for more if I'm trying to do that. But for me, if I'm going to scale, like I'm not going to want to do for me personally if I'm going to scale, I'm trying to go get economies of scale. So I'm trying to go five units or above ideally, you know, 16 units or above if I can, that would be ideal. And so that's, that's kind of what I'm looking for. And so I'm not. It could work out better for you, but you have to understand what kind of other headaches that you're bringing on board and you got to know what that first property is actually doing. And so people say. That actually brings up another question. People say all the time you have $100,000, is it better to buy four properties? Let's just say you can with $25,000 down payments or it's better to buy one property with $100,000. It all depends on. There's also the element of diversification which is possible when you buy, when you buy two properties or four properties, you're not all invested in one. So that if a tenant, one tenant leaves, then you're not, you don't have zero income for that month. Like if you have four properties and maybe one tenant leaves, then you still get the other ones. You're still getting 75% of the income. That could be a benefit diversification. But again, it's all, it depends. I mean it depends on the properties, like how well they do that sort of thing. I like having more units personally, I like having more that. So like when, again when I look now, I'm looking more probably larger units and if I'm not looking larger, I definitely am pumping them more into these passive investments because that's where you get scale diversification, get better returns and somebody else is managing it. And so sometimes it depends, but sometimes these one or two unit properties in terms of management are pretty much the same in terms of your time and effort than some of these, like an 18 year apartment building. It's possible if you have good Management place, it's the same. So you're going to go for scale, why not go for scale? But then if you're not going to, you know, if you, you know, have that money and you want to, you can't get that much, why not put it in the passive real estate investment? That's an opportunity. One or two questions. Let's go for that. Hey, thank you. Thanks so much. Yeah, hopefully this has been helpful. Why are these syndicator video presentations so long and painful? Like two hours and dense? Yeah, I mean like I said, they're, yeah, they're painful. They can be painful, especially if you don't really understand them very well. They'd be actually painful. But they're trying to pack as much information as possible. They'd rather over deliver on those. Because let's be. For the people who don't want to do that, to be honest with you, all they want to look at is the like the one pager or two pager. And that's how people, I find that people are usually in two camps when they do these investments. And I don't know which one you're in. Hopefully you're in the latter one. But the first one is that people, when they invest in these things, all they do is look at the one sheet or like the, the basic highlights. They look at the return and they're like, oh, that looks like an amazing return. And they look at the picture of the apartment building or whatever property like ah, that looks pretty good. And they're like, all right, cross their fingers, let's go for it. They're usually that type of investor or you're the other type of investor that actually knows how to do your due diligence. And that's the thing. So you actually want to hear the two hour call talk. You want to know that because you know that all the work for these property, for these type of investments is done up front because you better put in that time because otherwise, you know, I find that people put in more time, you know, picking you know, your breakfast spot or whatever or your, your, your whatever, your vacation spot than they do in investing in their own property. This is harder money. This is your money that you're putting, you know, to use. You don't lose that. So I find that people are one of the two camps. So they're, they rather, if they're going to do a webinar, oh, they're going to, you're going to jam packet with information. And for me as an investor, I like watching those and so I like doing that because it answers a lot of the questions that I would have asked them anyways. And on top of that, if I don't hear it then, you know, so I'm, I'm expecting to spend that amount of time to do the proper due diligence. So. Okay, last two questions here. Thank you, Carlos Omalara. Okay, we'll just do that. Where's a good place to find syndicates? Yeah, they're all over the place. You got to find them online. There's crowdfunding sites where you can look at look for them where you can look for these. Some of these sites, you know these deals. Otherwise it's a network thing. You got to know people in the space. So do you know personally to find, get exposed to more of these. I'm part of investor club, right or whatever investor clubs and I create these networks of people that bringing deals together. I'm part, I go to real estate conferences and I do that once or twice a year just to network with people in that space. I'm also fortunate just because passive income MD people come to me a lot of times and talk to me and try to figure these things out. And so I'm in a good place where I get to be at the intersection of a lot of people. So that's one, you know, that's where I find a lot about, about a lot of these things. Colleagues, friends. It's always an idea too who's investing in real estate. We also do have an investor club if anybody's interested. They. There's a. There's two tiers. There's a free version from the investor club. You can sign up for it. We put the plaster that thing all over my, my blog now at the end of each blog post you can just sign up for the investor club. That's absolutely free. If there are good opportunities, I'm going to send them your way. If you notice, I haven't sent many your way just because I've been super conservative right now. Just so you know, it doesn't mean deals are out there. But unless I feel comfortable investing in myself, you're not probably not going to see it on that newsletter. So if anything we're just going to keep sending you updates about the market until we find a good deal than that goes there. The other tier for the investor club. Oh by the way, that's absolutely free to sign up. There's a form there and that sort of thing. The other tier that we have is the PIMD kind of platinum membership to the investor Club. And those are people who've taken Passive Real Estate Academy. And that's actually a discussion group where we actually are going to have a bigger discussion of people that have taken the course. We know everybody's informed, has a certain baseline of information and we're going to be bringing in deals. People bring in deals there all the time. Whatever deals that we see, we're going to be in there and have that discussion about it, do the due diligence together as a group and decide, hey, is this for you? Everyone could personally decide whether it's good for them or not. There are also some opportunities that we've gotten that I've gotten access to with certain deals where there's a certain number of allocation in terms of spots. And what we do is we bring it out to people, but in the past we've brought it out since it's like a smaller amount of allocation. We brought it to our platinum investor group first. And that gets eaten up there. It may not end up in the bigger investor group, but there's some opportunities there. And that's one of the benefits of being part of that, the platinum membership there. And that's something you get access for for life, for just signing up for the course. And for me that actually is worth more than the course itself anyways. But that's just me. And did I ask that last question? Multifamily versus cash out refinance out of your single family home. Is this a good idea versus upgrading to multifamily? Okay, so Omalara, I think it is. I think what you're asking is that let's say you have a single family home rental and that thing has gone up in value, you can do something called a refinance where you can, if it's gone up in value, you can actually cash out more. And should you take out that cash and maybe you can buy an apartment building after that if you have enough of a down payment. But at the end of the day you have a single family home that you kept taking some cash out of that and bought an apartment building. That's cool. Or is it better to idea just to sell that single family home altogether and go to the multifamily again? That's totally dependent on you and your goals. I see people do either way. There are some people that are always trying to sell these things in exchange and just trying to step up, step up, step up, step up. Then there are other people who are going for the, the, the refinance type thing. And if anybody read my blog Post this past week, it's called about. It's called, is it possible to get infinite returns in real estate? And it's actually absolutely possible. And it sounds like a weird concept, I didn't understand it at first. But here's the basic concept behind infinite returns. If you actually invest in something and then you're able to take your initial capital out, but that thing still continues to produce returns, what is your actual returns in terms of return on investment? At the end of the day, when you pulled all of the money that you've taken out, it's kind of like if you go to a. I mean, I don't want to equate it to gambling, but let's say you go to a casino, you know, you put down money, you win money, and you take out your initial returns, you know, your initial pot, how much you had, and you stick in your pocket everything you're playing with this house money. But technically your returns could be infinite, could continue, continue to grow without you having any money left in the pipe as long you don't touch that. But it's possible in real estate too. And one way to do that is to have a property have an increase in value, refinance it, mean that you refinance it for the higher value, the bank gives you a higher amount based on the new value of that property, and it allows you to pull out some extra cash, which hopefully is possible. It's your previous returns. And so you can take that return back out and you know, you can easily use it towards another property or you can do whatever you want with it, you can pocket it, you can, you know, buy a home, buy a yacht, whatever you want to do. But that's a way of getting infinite returns. And so it depends on what your strategy is, what you enjoy. I know people who love just the step up process where they continue to exchange it for the next property. Me particularly, I like the infinite return model. For the most part, I want to acquire properties, meaning that I want to have a good portfolio of properties. But I like having different properties as well too. I like having a property and maybe, you know, fixing it up. And that's what I'm doing actually for one of my apartment buildings right now that right now I'm going through the refinance process. It's valued significantly higher than when I bought it because of the rehab, the rent, what I've done with it, and the market's gone up and I'm able to basically take out my initial capital. And so now I still have that other apartment building which still produces income. But all my original capital is out now. I can take that and buy another apartment building. And so that's what's called like the infinite return model. I like doing that personally. I like the refinance model and that sort of thing. So anyways, I hope you guys have enjoyed this. We're going to try to do more of these. I'm running out of breath here. My coffee is almost out. I hope you've had a great day. And again, just to remind people if you're interested in learning more about this stuff on a higher level, curated for you, hand holding. Four weeks of passive real estate investing. And just get all that information learned in there at your own pace. If you want to give you another preview. By the way, a bonus that we're doing is that if you guys love the conference, leveraging growth there, we're gonna have a real estate conference. We did it last year and so many of you made it actually in person. But this year, by the way, we're gonna do it virtual just because we have to. Nobody's doing it in life. But we're going to have a virtual conference called Financial Freedom through Investing in Real Estate will happen in October. I haven't announced it yet, but we'll have some speakers. Obviously they're talking about active, passive, lots of physicians who talked about their journey. We'll talk about taxes, asset protection, all that stuff. We'll have a good time with it and do it all on like a virtual thing so everybody can participate. And so we'll definitely do that. I'm going to give, there's, there's going to be different tiers to that. By the way, there's a VIP tier where we're going to have not only the recordings as well as some live interactions with those experts. And by the way, and that's, we think it's going to be like a 397 value on that thing. We're giving that free as a bonus for anybody who signs up for that. The passive Real Estate Academy now. And we'll also give people a recording of last year's as well. And so we're just trying to make it like almost like a no brainer for everybody. We also have a 14 day money back guarantee so that if anybody's like, I do it and I don't know if this be a value, you get to see half the course and if you see half the course and you're like, this won't provide any value for me in my life. Just take what you've learned and we say, you know, we wish you the best and so yeah, and we'll give you money back. So again, I'm trying to do whatever I can to make this a no brainer for you, but either way, I hope you've enjoyed this. You love what you're doing on the group, Keep interacting. I love being a support for you and whatever we can do to continue to help you along your journey, let us know. So thank you guys. Good night. So I'm going to put the, I'll put the link to the course here if you guys are interested. But either way, we're just happy you're part of this. Take care. Bye. Enjoy the show. Let me know by dropping a review in the podcast app you're listening to us in. And if you haven't already, make sure to hit subscribe. Are you part of our community yet? Join thousands of physicians who are also on this journey to creating their ideal lives through multiple streams of income. You can join us on our Facebook group Passive Income Docs and you can always learn more at our website, passiveincomemd.com thanks again for allowing me to be a part of your journey. See you next time.