#40: How I Created Financial Freedom Using Real Estate and Equities and Then Started a Successful Digital Health Consulting Business, ft. Christopher H. Loo

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Welcome to the Passive Income MD Podcast where we talk about creating your ideal life through multiple streams of income. I'm your host, Peter Kim. If you enjoy hearing about this stuff, make sure to hit subscribe so I can bring it to you every week. Now let's get on with the show. Hey everyone, we're going to hear from Dr. Chris Liu. Now he's a retired orthopedic surgeon, now is doing full time healthcare and health consulting for different startups and companies. He also is an avid real estate investor and we're going to talk about his whole journey from the beginning. How are you doing, Chris?

Hey Peter. I'm happy to be on the show. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, this is awesome. It's a pleasure to have you here. I know you talk a lot about real estate, talk about career changes, talk about non clinical careers. And so I kind of want to talk about all that, but and let's try to get this. I'm going to try to get your story from the beginning. So if you could help us out, let us know how you started. I mean, you were an orthopedic surgeon, right? I mean you went through a lot of training, you worked really hard to get where you wanted to be. But when did that start to shift or some of your mindset start to shift?

Yeah, so my mindset started to shift back in 2008 and this was at the peak of the financial crisis. So prior to that I had been planning and preparing for just financially in terms of what would happen if some situation such as the one we're having now happened and how would I protect myself? Nothing out of my fault. At early age I was always investing in real estate and stocks and I was educating myself. But I wasn't really happy in my traditional medical career for a lot of reasons. And I just didn't like the idea of trading my time for money and you know, being on call 24 7. A lot of times I was working over 100 hours per week, you know, staying up 40 hours straight, making life and death decisions under those situations. So I wanted more control and I wanted more control of my time in my life. I also wanted a career where I could just be passionate about it. So, you know, medicine I was told from an early age was to be was like the low risk profession. You know, it's high paying, stable, you can never lose your job, people need, you know, help and things like that. But I wasn't really passionate about it, so. So that's why I started two companies during medical school. Both in real estate and stocks, which eventually allowed me to achieve financial freedom at the age of 29. And so by the time I was practicing, I already had two companies that I could fall back on in case I ever walked away from medicine or lost my job or things like that.

Well, let's talk about those two companies. What do you mean, companies in real estate and stocks? What does that mean to people?

Well, two companies, basically, there are two avenues by which I was was able to diversify and pursue different streams of passive income. So I call them companies because. And they were really under LLCs, but I call them companies because they have a specific focus. So one was in real estate. So that company was devoted to purchasing single family residences and also small condominiums. And basically my niche market was to medical students. And I used the Burr method, the Airbnb method, and house hacking to maximize my gains. So that was one area. And then the second area was in stocks and options. So that one was I could, you know, be investing and trading in stocks and options from my bedroom. And, you know, it's like it was easy to buy and trade stocks. You know, I could do all my research and I could just basically profit off the price swings and off the momentum. So that was another. And so. And those were the two companies that allowed me to generate enough income as a medical student so that I could be financially free.

So you were studying everything that you need to study during med school, but you were studying all these other things and doing all these things at the same time, is what you're saying?

Yeah, exactly. So it was interesting because I also, because I was part of the MD PhD program. So like, when I was in medical school, I was, when I wasn't studying, I was going to Home Depot and, you know, looking at all the deals. I was looking at investment properties, talking to realtors. Back then, I was using email marketing for my rooms so they didn't have like, YouTube and things like that that we have these days. And then other than that, whenever I had spare time, I was either working out or, you know, reading the Wall Street Journal, looking at, you know, what were the companies, what were the current trends? You know, how could I position myself to be profitable in terms of those trends? And then during graduate school, I was able to. I had actually more time. So then I was able to pursue these two companies full time and scale them up.

Yeah, so it got you to a point where you had enough passive income so that you said you created financial freedom. At what age Was that again?

29. I was 29 years old. So that was a big moment for me because that month I was able to make. Generate enough income to cover all of my expenses without working. And so that was my huge aha moment. I was like, well, if I can do this for a month, I can do it for two months, three months, six months. And eventually it became a year. And eventually it grew to. I was, you know, first it was five figures, and then it became six figures. And eventually it was like I was doing medical school just for society and my parents and, you know, to less because I was passionate about it. It was more for others.

So then what point did you decide, you know, you were done with medicine? I think that's an interesting story. You, I guess you finished your training and were you actually working out in practice for a while or when did that happen?

Yeah, I practiced for 10. I practiced from 2008 until 2016. And was interesting because during medical school, part of my rationale for starting these companies was I saw. Because that was when managed care was starting, and I saw all the implementations that were beginning to be implemented that would be the basis of our unsustainable system as we know it today. And because of all of these black swan events, I knew one day that there was going to be an event where enough doctors were going to say, I've had it. I quit. I can't take this anymore. You know, just the whole system becoming unsustainable. And so for me, that was. Was like my second year of residency. It was just, you know, I wasn't happy. I wasn't in control of my time in my life. People were saying, just stick it out for another couple years. You know, you're going to make your a million dollars a year. And really, you know, to, to me, making a million dollars a year under those situations wasn't really appealing to me. I'd rather, you know, make, you know, 500,000 in be doing what I love and passionate. So that was that. That was the breaking point. I saw malpractice. I saw physicians losing control of their time. They were being told what to do by executives being punished by them. And all the while, these executives were making, you know, in excesses of $1 million a year. And just like we were basically losing control of the system. And so I saw all these changes and I was. Luckily I had companies so that I was better positioned and prepared for these types of changes.

So it's getting to 2016 at this point. I mean, your real estate, I'm sure, was doing well. I Guess you're still doing the stock market game. At what point did you decide to kind of step away from Edison? I know you talked about some of the things that you were seeing, but what really prompted you to leave and then what did you decide to do at that point? Was it just that you were going to be a real estate investor at that point?

Yeah, great question. Because the point was where I was generating enough passive income where I could be comfortable. I could basically travel anywhere I wanted, I could go anywhere I wanted. I had essentially all my freedom. I wasn't bootstrapping, I wasn't scrimping and saving. And I had enough net worth so that in case I lost that cash flow, I could still draw upon that net worth. I also was able to draw upon my contacts, my experience, my brand. So that was back in 2016. And there was just a point where I was like, I've achieved enough. I had enough success. I had financially achieved all my goals by 35, but really being stuck in this career, I wasn't really fulfilled. I was really doing it to please others and for society and for my wife and parents. So I took a year off and took a sabbatical and just contemplated what I really wanted out of life and what would make me fulfilled. So I wanted control back of my time in my life and to be able to contribute, give back influence and mentors. So, you know, during that time, it was like consulting was actually on the top of my mind because you have a lot of flexibility. And it was. A lot of my friends were consultants, so they were traveling all the time, which sounded really exciting. They were getting well, they were getting paid very well. And also they were able to build their own brand and their unique credibility so that a lot of them were writing, speaking, creating online courses. So I wanted to be able to leverage my experiences in a unique and niche oriented way and build a consulting company out of that.

How did you know how to do that? Like, what did that look like? Were these friends that were doing this, were they physicians in medicine or were they outside of medicine?

These were all physicians outside of medicine. I got a lot of my inspiration from people outside of medicine. People that were doing what they wanted to be doing on their terms and based on their passions and their experiences. A lot of my physician friends weren't really very entrepreneurial. They were still, you know, doing the nine to five, hustle, grind, that sort of thing, which that didn't really appeal to me. I wanted to be able to. I wanted to be able to get paid for My unique experiences and to be able to share and give it back to the world. But it was interesting because a lot of my friends, they were in the, what I call the consulting world where they were working for firms like Accenture, Deloitte, all of the big firms. But what really motivated me was to develop a consulting company that was what they now call a freelance consulting company where you're basically creating your own consulting brand.

So, so let's say you decided, well, you decided that you wanted to do this. So how did you actually get it set up? You decide I'm going to open well up one day as a consultant. I'm just going to let people know is that, I mean how do people start this?

Yeah, that's one of the really challenging parts about the starting a company based on your. So a lot of the resources that I drew upon, so one was a book called Getting Started in Consulting. So that book really helped me just figure out because consulting is a very generic and broad field. So you know, it's basically one can call themselves a consultant and go out and leverage that. But the hard part is the variability of the income and getting booked and getting clients. So how I my number one recommendation is how I started was I went out and became a consultant for others. So a lot of hospitals were hiring physicians to help with their electronic health record implementation. And then once I developed that good strong brand and that reputation where the hospitals sometimes the hospitals even offered me a full time job after the consulting gig but I turned them down because really the traditional 9 to 5 corporate job didn't really appeal to my personality so I turned it down. But, but that helped me get build my Rolodex and my strong network which I leveraged into further projects as well. So that's the one thing is if you don't have a strong following or brand, just start out as a consultant for others and once you grow your reputation then you can start going out on your own own. So and then once I did that I just, I continued to leverage that. And one thing that another thing that would I wish I had done in the past was I was active on social media but I wasn't using social media in the correct way. So right now how we're using social media is by marketing and producing great content and giving a lot of great information. But traditional social media, you know, people, it's more for personal use. So in the past I wish I had used social media to actually market and develop content and grow my influence prior to becoming consultant because that would Help me jumpstart my career even faster. So, you know, right now I've written four books, I've given a lot of speeches, I'm set to give a TEDx talk in October and we're now, we're doing a lot of podcast interviews. So that's helped to build and grow my brand as well.

I mean that's an amazing journey. I mean when you do this consulting, like I think people want to know, like what do you exactly do when you act as a consultant? I mean, what does your day to day look like? And then, yeah, I mean, how do you, how do you know what that entails?

Yeah, it's every, the thing is, it's the thing that's great about it and the downside of it is that it's highly variable. So it all depends on the client. So it's highly exciting if you like that. If you just like, you know, the travel and the different experiences and the novelty of everything. So what, what I, so a lot of my, because I work with the hospitals, you know, it starts at like 5am, ends at 5pm but it's very, it's very what I call non stressful because you're, you're there as a consultant and you're there as a liaison. So you're there to provide your input in order to help the client achieve a particular outcome. So you're not directly responsible for the outcome. You're there to provide your input. So that's the good thing, is that you're not directly responsible for that. Then a lot of times, like for example, I was doing consulting full time where I was gone and traveling 11 months out of the year where I didn't see my wife or my family. So that sort of got in the way of things. But you know, since then, since I've been able to generate a lot of income from my consulting practice, I've scaled back a little bit more so that I can focus on the digital education content of my practice. But you know, again, it's very independent and situation dependent. So you know, you want to do one project, you can, or you want to do it full time, it's all up to you. You have a lot of flexibility. So.

Well, what does that look like financially for a lot of people want to go into this? I think that can it be quite lucrative or can it, does it even compare to a physician income at this point? I think people want to know.

Yeah, it is actually very lucrative. I mean, like for example, last year I worked for three, three months out of the year and I made enough to be able to take the extra nine months off. So it is very lucrative. If you want to be, for example, like as an orthopedic Surgeon, you're making 800-900K per year. If you're looking for those type of gigs, you have to develop a bigger and stronger brand and you have to work with bigger and more high paying clients. But like I said, even working with hospitals which are very generous in their pay, you know, for, especially for physicians, you know, easily as a consultant for hospitals, you can make 400, 500k per year, which is, you know, that's, that's fine. You know, I would rather have my independence and time and freedom and take that 400k pay cut and pay less in taxes than, you know, be, you know, tied to a place where I have to be, you know, 365 days a year. So that's one issue. The other issue is that it's, you know, as a consultant, then you can use, use that extra cash and money to invest in other businesses that, other investments, real estate and things like that so you can generate more income to free up more of your time as well.

So, so have you found that somebody needs to be a particular specialty to be able to be successful in this or is it kind of across all specialties as long as you have that MDDO degree that allows you to kind of get your foot in the door and do this sort of thing?

Yeah, like an MD do, any sort of degree adds the stamp of credibility because, you know, as physicians, we're all highly educated, highly trained, we have a lot of integrity, we don't break the law, we're very trustworthy. So at the least, you know, graduating from medical school, that brands you as honest and trustworthy. I will say that more experience, for example, if you have, if you have an intern year, you have license, if you're board certified, board certified is the best position to be in because not only do you have a clinical practice to follow up on, but then you can do some other things that require further specialization. So for example, like file review, you want to be expert witness, you want to be a consultant to pharma, medical device, drug companies, all those, you know, board certification allows you that extra stamp of approval. But any sort of, when you, in my projects, I've seen that, you know, people are inherently what I call doctor, so and so I went to medical school here. That adds a stamp of approval upon yourself.

Yeah, that's great. Is this something that somebody can do on the side as Well, I mean you're doing this full time, but you know, is this, could this be a side hustle, side gig, that type of thing?

Oh, yeah, definitely. For like, for all of the physicians out there, right now is the best time to start considering what type of consulting that you can get into. Because you know, if you're looking to transition from clinical to non clinical, now is the perfect time. Because I know as we've seen with COVID 19, the idea of job stability no longer exists. We all have to create our own job stability. So getting into a side hustle such as consulting is the best way. And you can do it on the side too. So during my assignments I was, I started out just doing like the side projects and it would, you know, just for extra income. But then as it started to grow and as it started to be, I started to realize I could do this even more full time and it was. And I would able to replace my clinical income. It became more and more lucrative. So you can start it out as, you know, do one project a year all the way to full time. And now is, now is the best time to be looking into these types of endeavors.

All right, that's amazing. I mean, I think for people that are looking to get into this, like what do you. I think you might have mentioned something before, but I want to kind of maybe jump on it again. But what do you wish you knew when you first started doing something like this that you know now, and this would probably save people a lot of pain and suffering for people who are just starting out right now.

One thing I wish I knew was that just having a. Well, I'll get to. But one thing is having a strong network and also having a strong Rolodex, that one that I wish that had gotten started in. And then the other thing is, the other tip that I recommend in getting started is what uniques think about. The question is what unique skill set that can differentiate yourself above all others and just start thinking about all of the different products and services that you can start developing around that. So for example, my passion was in technology and just disruptive technology and how it impacted healthcare. And then I started developing products and services around that area. So think about that. And the other thing is just start thinking outside of the box because having like have a strong network outside of clinical medicine, that way you can draw upon that and leverage that if you need to use it in the future.

All right, those are some great tips. And before we kind of get to our final tip for people who are interested in getting into medical consulting, maybe even some of the real estate stuff that you've done. Where can people find out more about you? Find out about what your path and maybe even some of the things you talked about. I know you've written a few books. Let's talk about that.

Yeah, well, they can email me@christopherlooloomdphdmail.com I'm very my presence on the, they can look me up on LinkedIn, I'm on Instagram, Facebook. You can also look me up on Amazon as well. They're my four books are there. I'll also have my online course that I'm launching out later on this year. So, you know, I'm everywhere. So you know, look me up and I, and I respond very quickly as well. So.

Yeah, well that's amazing. People should reach out definitely if they want to use you as a resource. So thanks for offering that. Okay, so what's your number one tip for people who are considering following in your same footsteps?

Oh, so my number one tip is don't wait to get started. So what I wish is I wish I had gotten started earlier. So it took me eight years to fully realize that the path that I was leading wasn't really sustainable and I wasn't really contributing to my overall happiness. Even though it was high paying and I was doing well, it was just that my quality of life wasn't good. So don't wait to get started. The longer you wait, the more suffering and the more pain you're going to be in. So just take action. Start little by little. You don't have to replace your current income in a year, but just take little by little steps and start thinking about different side incomes that you can generate which will free up your time later in the future. If you want to walk away from medicine or if you want to just do it part time, you know, there's, as long as you have your financial independence and freedom, then you have so many more options and your quality of life will be so much better.

All right, well, thank you so much for your time. Thanks for your expertise. You made it sound really interesting. I think there are a lot of people who would probably want to do the same thing you've done. So it's great that you found your path and I love this story. So thanks so much for sharing it with us. Good luck on your TEDx talk and take care.

All right, thanks Peter.

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