#49: Starting an Online Coaching Business ft. Katrina Ubell M.D.

Welcome to the Passive Income MD Podcast, where we talk about creating your ideal life through multiple streams of income. I'm your host, Peter Kim. If you enjoy hearing about this stuff, make sure to hit subscribe so I can bring it to you every week. Now, let's get on with the show.

Hey, everyone.

Hope you've had a great week. Just curious, how many of you out there have heard of the concept of life coaching? I mean, I know it's a relatively new concept in the physician world. However, even in the last year or two, I've seen the amount of physician life coaches explode, and I totally get it. I mean, it makes sense that right now a lot of physicians need that support and guidance, especially with what's happening in medicine. I will say that before two years ago, I had never even thought about the idea of having a coach for any aspect of my life. I mean, maybe when I was in team sports, back in the day, yeah, you had coaches. But today, I mean, to talk about career, money, organizing your time, you know, relationships or something like that, I never even thought about the idea of coaches. I mean, there are therapists and that makes sense. But, yeah, again, this whole idea and this world of coaching was brand new to me. However, I've now become quite immersed in it and met so many amazing people who are coaches, people who have been coached and who have talked about the influence it's had on their life. And I think it's fascinating. And for anybody who's looking for growth, looking for guidance, support, encouragement, helping them work through limiting beliefs and setting goals, I think that coaching can be a very, very powerful thing for someone in that situation. In this interview this week, we're going to be talking to one of the very first physician life coaches that I ever met. Her name is Dr. Katrina Ubell. She is an amazing person. And in this interview, we're going to talk about her story about how she became a coach. This is actually an interview from last year's Leverage and Growth Summit 2020. As many of you know, by the time this thing comes out, the Leverage and Growth Summit 2021 will be currently going on. We'd love for you still to join. You can join us at www.levageandgrowth.com, where you get to hear the stories of amazing physicians doing just awesome things outside of clinical medicine to really create their ideal lives. I recommend you check it out. There's a free Facebook group and the whole summit's free, unless you want to do a VIP upgrade. But honestly, you can enjoy all the content for free. And and we want to put it out there and impact as many people and have them share it as much as possible. So please check that out. And in the meanwhile, enjoy this interview. If you ever thought about coaching, wanted to become a coach, why it might impact you, I think this one will be interesting for you. So enjoy.

Hey, Katrina, how are you doing?

Hey, Peter. I'm so glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

No, I appreciate your time. I want to find out more about this because every time I meet you, I hear more and more. I hear it in little tidbits, ok. But I've never heard the full story. And how did you get started? You're a pediatrician by trade, so how did you get started in this online business?

Tell us about it. Okay. So I became the person that I needed. Okay. That's really the sum of how this works. I was in private practice, general pediatrics, for a little over 10 years. And during that time, I didn't always have a very good attitude, to be quite honest. I really did have a great practice. I loved most of my patients. I mean, as it goes, right, there's always going to be the ones that are more challenging, and those are the ones you end up having to put a lot of time and effort into. But I really struggled a lot with just basically the dynamics of the practice that I was in. Everything looked amazing on the outside, but inside I was totally struggling. And I didn't really recognize that I was in charge of my experience. I really thought that it was the other people around me who were the problem. And so I went into a lot of blame and just very disempowering kinds of ways of thinking where I just thought that everybody else was the problem, I wasn't the problem. And of course then they needed to change in order for me to feel better. During this time, I was doing what I had always basically done since I was a child, but of course got worse in medical school and residency, which was to eat my emotions. So I used food as a way to make myself feel better. And. And I think all of us have done that, at least a little bit to some extent, where we've eaten some food that maybe we didn't really need, right? Like, maybe we were full and we ate a little more. But this was really to the point where it was like, for sure, coming home every night feeling so wiped out, because it's so emotionally exhausting to be so resistant to the reality that's around you all day long. I would come home feeling wiped out. I have three Kids. My husband's a surgeon. He's ear, nose, and throat. And. And he was, like, doing great. Like, he was home before me most of the time. He was, like, you know, loving life and things were going great for him. And I was just like, this is so hard. I didn't ever really, at that point, think about leaving medicine just because. Who does that, right? Like, it just. It literally never occurred to me. But I would just come home and sit on the couch and eat Trader Joe's like, Oreo cookies and, you know, zone out on watching tv. And so, of course, I had a weight issue. So I would gain weight, and then I'd be like, no, that's the max. And then I'd lose it on Weight Watchers and Lifetime Member, and then I gain it again and lose it again and, you know, some pregnancies in there. And so it just. All that time was just up and down with weight. And I had a lot of shame, honestly, around the fact that I was a physician offering medical advice, you know, health advice, dietary advice to families on how they should care for their children. Meanwhile, I was totally not following that at home. My kids were eating that way pretty well. But then I'd be like, well, I got home so late, I don't even feel like having dinner, so I'll just, like, have a glass of wine and eat some popcorn. And that was my dinner. Right? Like, doesn't make any sense. So. So there was really a lot of embarrassment around that for me. And so what ended up happening was I was approaching my 40th birthday. I knew I was done having kids. I had promised myself I would lose the baby weight, the final baby weight did, but then totally gained it back again after I, you know, basically, like, pinky swore with myself not to do that. And it happened again. Started realizing, you know what? I think there might be something that I'm missing here. Like, I don't know what's going on, but this is clearly not working anymore. And so I was approaching 40, and I think it's normal, those milestone birth, you know, birthdays, to kind of have a sort of, you know, reevaluation of sorts of like, just my whole life and what am I doing and what's working, what isn't. And so I did actually start kind of down the dive of, do I even really want to be practicing anymore? Financially, we really didn't need my income. That profit sharing I got was exactly what we paid our nanny every year. It was kind of like, why am I doing this? And really contemplating and seriously, it wasn't like a quick decision to leave. At the same time, I was like, I've got to figure something out with my eating and my weight. And so I tried a whole bunch of different things. And what ended up actually working was working with a life coach. Because that's when I finally realized, like, oh, I think it might be more than I just like food. I think I might actually be creating this problem with the way that I'm thinking, and I don't know how to fix that, but this person says she can help me. And so I ended up losing all the weight and then some and have kept it off because I actually solved the real problem, which was my brain. Not just that I liked food and focusing on, like, should I eat keto? Or like, how low carb should I go? Like, all that stuff is not important at all. So when I saw the amazing results that I got, I was just super obsessed with helping other people, other physicians, because I knew that people were struggling. Like me. I had literally been in practice Googling weight loss for doctors. Like, certainly somebody must be helping the doctors. And there was nobody. It was medical weight loss clinics. And I was like, I don't need shots, I don't need surgery. I don't need pills. I just need someone who understands that in the middle of clinic, when I'm 40 minutes behind, I'm not going to stop and eat a snack. Like, I'm just not. And like, nobody nutritionists and stuff, like, nobody understood that. And so I needed somebody who would really get, like, what my life was like. And I thought, you know what? Like, I get what their life is like. Like, I know what it's like to be, you know, in surgery all day and you're famished, and then the crap they have in the surgeon's lounge is all there is. And you feel like you want to reward yourself with the chips or whatever cookies and stuff that's there. Like, other people don't get that. So I thought, you know what, Maybe I should become a coach and I can actually become that person that I really needed in my life. And so I, as I said, I was already on my way out kind of a medicine, mentally anyway, kind of going, like, I don't even know if I want to do this. But I didn't know what I wanted to do. So I decided, you know what? I think I'm going to have this business. And I should just tell you, I did not ever have one entrepreneurial thought in my life. Like, literally, you know, there's people. Like, I always wanted a business. I did not ever. I was like, who would want to do that? That sounds like a terrible idea. I didn't know anything. I always say, like, people are like, well, I don't. You need to have some knowledge. I always say I was like a vacuum. Like, I was like negative knowledge. I knew if there was less than nothing, it was what I knew. I didn't know anything about it. And I learned. I figured it out. The great thing about being a doctor, you're a smart person and you know how to figure things out. Right?

So let's talk about that. I want to talk about that. So how did you know that first step? Because I think a lot of people, you might come to that conclusion. I want to help other people. Maybe there's a business in this. Maybe they've heard of coaching. Because, I mean, honestly, before a couple years ago, I had never even heard of the term coach outside of athletics. Right. How did you know? First of all, where did you find that first life coach for yourself? And then how did you figure out, okay, if I'm going to go down this journey, here are the steps I'm going to take to get.

What am I going to do? Yeah. Such a good question. So I actually had first heard about the term life coach on Oprah way back in the day. Martha Beck, who was kind of like, coined the term, used to be a regular person, like a regular guest on her show. And even then I didn't know what that meant, but it kind of was like, oh, it's like the athletic coach, but like, for your life. Like, I didn't really know either. You know, I was like, I don't know what this is, but it sounds pretty good. The way I ended up finding it was. I mean, it's so random how things work in life. A woman who I used to take a Pilates class from, she moved away, but had mentioned she might want to become a life coach. Then this was like a year or two later, I was having some struggles with just like, some family dynamics type of stuff with some extended family. And I started to realize, like, I think I might be the one who has the problem because I'm, like, still so furious days later. And like, they. They aren't feeling my fury. Like, the people in question don't live near me. And so I was like, you know, I don't think I need to see a therapist, but I need some help because I think I'm going to, like, say some stuff that would not be a really Good idea if I don't get some help. And so I thought, oh, I should just reach out to her. Maybe she's done that coaching thing. Like, maybe that could help. I had no idea what it would be at all. She had just finished and we did two calls, and she completely changed my whole life with just some very basic concepts she taught me. And so when I said to her, where did you learn this? I need to know this immediately. This is when I was still in practice. Because of course, I thought immediately, like, I should not be this old and just learning this stuff. Like, all of my adolescent patients need to learn this. Maybe I could learn it and teach them not thinking. I don't know why I didn't think, like, maybe I should get more help in that moment. But she told me about the Life Coach school, which is what I checked into and started following that. And I still didn't. It didn't really. Just like, listening to the podcast and stuff didn't really resonate with me because I just thought my life was the exception. Like, they didn't really understand what I was dealing with, you know, like, that's kind of where I was at in my mind. But it did help a little bit. But I kind of put it on a back burner, like, in my mind, like, someday I looked into. Into being certified right away. And the way they had it set up then it was just not going to work with my schedule as in practice, like, at all. Plus, my youngest, I think was. She was close. She was like 12 months old or something. I was like, okay, let's just wait like a couple years, then I can maybe address that. And so it really was like a couple years later where I was when I was thinking, like, you know, I need some help. Maybe I don't want to be in practice. Like, oh, yeah, there was that life coaching thing I wanted to do. And turned out that they were offering some, like, intensive weight loss help too. And I was like, well, maybe I should do that and just really get coached. And the thing is, is in my opinion that you become a much better coach when you. When you have been coached a lot yourself. You have to have done a lot of personal work to be able to coach other people really effectively. But I do just want to say, within the framework of what we're talking about here, I do think that there are a lot of opportunities to be able to create a business without needing any kind of certification or additional training, because I think that's what hangs a lot of people up there. Like, I Don't want to spend the money, I don't want to spend the time. I already got like all these certifications and I'm trained in all these things. I don't want to do that. So there I have a lot of ideas of things people could do without any of that. Any like the knowledge that you can help people with, you already have in a lot of ways, I think for people. But the way I ended up doing it was when I became, when I went through certification. They also had some included business help which like at least got me started in what to do now. With that said though, I realized later that there are other programs that you can follow that tell you all the same stuff too. So like that wasn't required. It's just kind of how I happen to do it. B school, which is a program that Marie Forleo does every year. I'm not affiliate or anything, it's just I did it a couple years ago. She really takes you through step by step exactly how to do it. But I think there's so many people you can follow now. Like you just figure out how to start an online business. There's so many things. Or Stu McLaren with tribe. He teaches people how to do memberships, like literally step by step by step by step. So there's a lot of options on how to learn how to do that stuff.

You end up doing a certification. What do you think the benefits were for you to actually go through and get certified though? Because I know some people say, I don't know if it's worth it or not for you. You did, right?

Yeah, yeah, I did. So the way. So what you have to understand about life coaching is it's a totally unregulated industry. Okay? So think about medicine. Super regulated, clear best practices, right? It's like very clear on what you should be doing, what you shouldn't be doing. The opposite of that is true in life coaching. And so there are different kind of schools of thought around how to coach well and if certification means anything and if that's required. And the kind of coaching that I found resonated the most with me is very different than how I coached people, so to speak, in practice. So I would coach people through getting their baby to sleep at night. I coach people through the really hard times with their teenagers. But it was very much a focus on telling them what to do. It's very action driven, right? It's like, do this, do this. If that doesn't work, do this. And the kind of coaching that I found, super Effective is not that kind of coaching. There are coaches that do that. It's like all about just telling them what to do. But this was much more about like not telling people what to do, recognizing that actually you have no idea what they should do, but you can help them to figure out what they want to do by accessing what their thoughts and feelings are. So this is a totally different skill that I was very new at. And so I think, of course, you know, being like, I would just love to learn and always have been lifetime learner, I was like, well, I really want to learn more about this and, and I'm really glad I did because what I would have come with otherwise would have been like so diluted and not nearly as powerful. And I think when you really can help people meaningfully in a pretty short amount of time, like, that only creates just raving fans, right? People really want what you can offer when you're like, listen, I have a solution. I can help you fix it like this versus, like, it might take some time. And like, some people I can help and some people I can't. But that's just with coaching because it is like a different skill set basically.

You know, well, people, people see you now as this like really successful coach, but in the beginning you have to find clients, right? You have to find that start. I think a lot of people, that's a big, that's a big fear for people, like, how do I get people to actually sign up and do this thing? So if you can go back and remember, like, how was that beginning of that process for you and how did you end up getting clients and how did you get people to believe in what you could do yourself?

What I could do, exactly. Yeah. Well, so first of all, what I started with was just one on one coach and you know, selling like a six week package. Most people cannot solve their weight overeating issue in six weeks. But I kind of felt like, well, if I just do six weeks, I can keep the price pretty low. And then if I could just get people to sign up and see how good it is, they're going to want to renew. And that's basically what happened. So I just kind of kept it. Rather than doing like a three month long or six month long program to start, I'm like, let me keep it real short and keep the price down. And I know I'm going to be able to help them once I can just get them to, to like bite, you know. And so really the way I started was through Facebook groups, not my Own other ones that already existed. And there are a number of Facebook groups for women physicians. They all have very strict rules. So you have to learn what the rules are against self promotion. So there's like, no better way to create ill will with whoever, the moderators or administrators of the group than to go in there, not look at the rules, and start telling everybody how they can pay you money because you can help them. Like, they can't do that. But. So I. So there were a number that I went in and I started offering value. I just started helping and providing assistance where I could and when I. So at first, I started blogging, and when I had a blog post that I thought would maybe help people, I shared it there, if that was allowed. And I just, you know, very. I just really utilized tactics. You know, you can't go in there guns blazing, just like, okay, you guys, I'm ready to take your money. You know, you have to go in and you have to do a value exchange. The money comes once you've offered enough value, and they have to trust you that you are there for the right reasons. Sounds like the Bachelor. But, like, you're there for the reason of helping, not because you're just trying to get people to buy things. And I think, you know, people are on to people these days, right? There's, like, where. There's like, wait, what's in it for her? Like, why is she. Why is she offering that? So I was just really careful about that. And now at the bottom of all my blog posts, I offer them a free call with me, which is basically a sales call, right? So I did coach them, I did help them, but then I told them about being able to work with me. So I got a couple people that way. And then. And so I was, like, doing what I could do. I did start with Facebook ads. My spend was very low, and honest to goodness, I don't know that I got anybody. I don't think I got a single client through that, to be honest. The person I was working with initially. But I did try that, and if I could do it again, I would have done my targeting way better, actually find people and better ads. And I've learned a lot. The way you learn, right, is you make mistakes, made a lot of mistakes, but have improved on that. And then the next thing that happened is it was kind of the end of the year, and I decided to pitch the local radio stations and TV stations to see if anybody would be interested in having me on to talk about, like, a different way of thinking. About weight loss, rather than, again, talking about, like, the latest diet, like, let's talk about our brains and how that actually influences what you're eating, what you're not eating, and the results that you. That you create. Now, I got one bite, and it was for our local NPR station. And honestly, if I'm being honest, I think it's because the person that I pitched, I used to take care of his kids. So I was like, hey, use what you got, right?

Use whatever connections you have.

He was one of the kind of local people in charge of the local NPR show, the Daily show that they had. But I pitched him. I was just like, hey, will you help me? I was totally like, listen, I have the story to tell. This is some really good information, and the people of my city need to know it because of these reasons. This is why you should have me on. And so he bit. And so I went in there scared to death. I'm telling you, I was so nervous. Did that interview. And then I got a couple of clients out of that. So none of them doctors, though. Okay. So I got, like, a physical therapist who'd been driving around, and she happened to hear me, so I was still targeting doctors, but I was like, I'll help anybody. I got the wife of a doctor. I was working with her. I was working with a nurse practitioner who kind of, like, knew some people that I knew, but once they heard, once I was on npr, it was like, oh, like, that's like, a little more legit. Like, this might be, like, you know, a real thing. And then it was a few weeks after that that I started a podcast. And the reason I started a podcast was because I just knew my ideal client was, like, a woman physician. I was thinking of an OB GYN who was, like, 2 in the morning, waiting on a baby, just, like, feeling so gross, eating all the crap that the nurses have, you know, on L and D. And just like, I have got to do something now. Is she going to seriously be reading my blog posts? I was like, no, she's going to be listening to me in the car. Like, I just was like, they have commutes. Like, they need to be efficient. They're not going to read. They're going to listen. And I felt like I could portray my personality better that way, too. So, like, through, you know, just my voice. So I started this podcast, and then again, of course, I couldn't promote it. So what I did was I asked some other physicians that I knew, hey, will you go into these Facebook groups and just tell People that this podcast exists. And once it did, I remember, totally remember, got my first mention in a really big one, And I got 10,000 downloads in 48 hours. And I think I had three episodes, four maybe. So it was just like, boom. I was like, I know they're going to be interested if they could just find out about it. So that was then, like, okay, now people were really interested in working with me one on one. They're like, yes, she gets me. She really understands my problem, as I said, right? I was like, nobody understands us, but I do. I can help you. And so it was actually within a few months, I had already moved to groups because I had so many people wanted to work with me one on one. There was just no way that I could handle all of them, or I would just have to make them wait forever or raise my prices really high. And I didn't really want to do that. I would rather help more people because I just knew there were so many people out there who needed that help, and then it's just been gone from there.

I mean, that's an amazing example of what people talk about, finding your ideal customer or client. I think that's a perfect example. But you decided to pick, like, a niche that is extremely narrow. And I know when people start looking weight loss for physicians and women physicians in particular, I know that in clinical.

Practice, you have to be practicing, okay.

In clinical practice, people talk about, oh, my gosh, I want to do this thing or launch this business, but, oh, man, the market is so small out there for those people. And people will say, hey, maybe that doesn't. You only get appealed to a small population or small group. Like, you're a perfect example of someone who's kind of taken that and actually run with it. So do you think that's actually part of the reason you've been so successful? I'm just curious.

Totally, Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, if you think about it, right? Like, I'm just thinking as when I was struggling, if there was just someone out there who's like, hey, I can help you. I can help doctors, I can help teachers, I can help lawyers, I can help, you know, whoever, like, works at the grocery store, right? Like, I would be like, well, but I don't think you're going to really understand my specific problems now. Can I coach anybody? Absolutely. I can't. Do I have to understand? I don't. But from the client perspective, we think she gets me. She really understands. If she says that I can make this work, even though my life is crazy, And I'm eating at the hospital cafeteria, and, like, whatever. Like, I believe. I think I put my faith in her that she can help me to do this. Whereas, like, some, you know, if it's just like, everybody, as a, you know, there's the saying goes, when you're speaking to everybody, you're speaking to nobody. When you. When you're speaking to a really specific person, they're like, oh, my gosh, that person. Like, I feel seen, I feel heard, I feel understood. And if I want to lose weight, like, of course I'm giving my money to her and I'm going to work with her. Like, why would I do anything else, Right? So people. The other thing that people say is, like, the riches are in the niches. And I think I'm the prime example of that. Like, you get really, really good at helping a narrow group of people, and they become your raving fans, and then they tell everybody about you and the help that you've provided. And then, you know, I still to this day think that word of mouth is my biggest marketing tool.

That's amazing. Do you mind giving people kind of a snapshot or kind of look in. Into what your life looks like as a coach, like, what it looks like on a daily basis and how you're able to juggle your family life. Obviously, you have a husband who's also still in clinical practice, and I'm sure it's busy, but I know you guys spend a lot of time kind of traveling and these kind of things, too.

Yeah, we do a lot of.

How do you put this all together?

Yeah. Well, so let's talk about, like, before Corona hit. Right? Okay. Like real, real life. Right. Because right now it's like, wow, we're all home. That's what we're doing. But so before that, I only worked, pretty much only worked when my kids were in school. So I have three kids, first, second, and eighth grade. And so they're all in school all day. But they, you know, I would leave at 20 after 3 to go pick them up. And I brought them to school every day, too. And so I would be really clear on, you know, very organized on what I needed to get done. And what I do is I don't have, like, a to do list of things I need to do. What I do every week is I create a list of results that I want to have by the end of the week. And there is actually a big difference because you can do a lot of things that don't create any results. What I want is results I want to make sure that the result of whatever it is that I'm doing has been created. And so everything that I'm doing then throughout the week is in an effort to create that result. And maybe it goes faster than I thought it would, maybe it's slower, but regardless, that result is going to get created by the end of the week. So I keep it pretty simple. I now have a team that helps me. But even before I had that, I still really focused on not overworking. Because one of my biggest problems when I was in practice and one of the reasons I found it so hard to manage my mind was because I overworked like crazy. I was only like, 83%. I took full call, but I worked one day less than my partners. But when I was there, I mean, it was like crazy town in terms of my accessibility, availability to my patients. I came home so late because I trained them all to call me for every little thing. Like, when this became clear to me was when I spent 30 minutes on the phone with the family. While my family was here having dinner. I was at the office discussing with them how they should set up their bunk beds and which kids should go in which rooms. And I was like, what am I doing right now? Like, what have I created? I just didn't know. I thought I was really being helpful, but what I was doing was training them to rely on me for everything. And I found that when I got into my own business, too, was like, all of a sudden now I'm working on the weekends, and I'm working at night, and I'm just working, working, working. And I was like, this seems awfully familiar. You know, your brain's the same even when you have a different job. So I'm very clear with myself on what my. On what my work restrictions are. I do still sometimes do, like, a call at night or something like that, you know, but that's thought out, and there's, like, strategy behind that. I'm not just, like, online, you know, messing around now with the coronavirus stuff. It's been a little more challenging because, you know, days where I'd be like, you know, have all these hours uninterrupted to work. I have children home, and I'm having to help them with school and things like that. So I would say that I'm working Monday through Friday some, but not even necessarily that much. And I feel like what I've been able to do, too, is I have developed some awareness of just where my energy levels are at and, like, when I need Some time to really like just cut it off. I give myself that day, especially like after traveling and stuff like, you know, then I give myself a day like recovery day so I can really hit the ground running at full force the next day. And that way I can be very productive in the short amount of time that I have. So I basically, I mean, I mean when everything was, you know, before, I mean, 20 hours a week, I'd say on average. Yeah. So not bad.

That's awesome. I mean, knowing the time we're in right now, do you think there's more or less of an opportunity for people to kind of take on coaching? Do you think the need is getting bigger?

Oh my gosh.

It looks like in the future the prospect for this.

Well, here's the thing that this is what I'm thinking, you know, and this is how I thought for a while. Our lives, like so many things are like taking over and making our lives more convenient, right. And easier. And you know, people are talking about like self driving cars and like having some like, you know, AI Butler who's going to like, you know, whatever, like run your household and things like that. The one thing that is not changing the way technology in all our lives is changing is the way the human brain responds to life. Like, we still don't want to feel our emotions. We still don't understand that our thoughts create our results in our lives. If anything, like, it is more so that people are like, what? Why don't I feel better? I have all the things. I have the amazing life. I have the money and the practice and the family and I'm still miserable. I don't understand why this is the work that we can do. Now what I think is like even broader. Whether it's coaching or just some other online program, I think ideas. I talked earlier about ideas that I have for people. Just even as a pediatrician myself, I really felt after 10 years in practice, I was like, give me any baby that doesn't sleep and I will get it to sleep. I was like, I'm all in. I can get any baby to sleep. Any baby that's got feeding issues, like, I might need to, you know, get some help from lactation and like, you know, speech therapist or whatever. But like, I know how to handle that. I know how to manage that. Like there's nothing that I feel like I can't help someone with. And I know so many physicians feel that way. Like when it comes to like asthma, I've got it down pat or whatever it is, you know, I can really help people. There's this certain way that I like to help my patients, and it's really unique to me, and it works really, really well. Well, this is such an opportunity to scale that and bring that to the masses. So again, maybe you're an oncologist, and this is like a real specific thing that you do for people who have, like, GI cancers. And you're like, I mean, how many people are, you know, like, oh, how am I going to do that? But there's lots of people who have cancer and specific GI cancers. And you have something that is. Can really, really help them, then you create that, and then they're like, of course they're going to sign up for it, and they want that help because you're someone who can really help them with whatever it is. So, like, for instance, with my example of getting a baby to sleep, I totally think that you could create easily, like a course of just a few modules. Get yourself on video. You have your whole way that you take people through it, and you're just like, boom, boom, boom. Try this. If that doesn't work, do this. I mean, I talked about not telling people what to do, but this is a kind of thing where you're like, just tell me what to do as the parent. You're like, I just want to know. And you can have it all laid out. There's programs that host all this stuff for you. So you don't have to, like, get a web designer to create all this for you. You just basically create the content, insert it. It's easy to, you know, figure out payment platforms and stuff. Now, like, all that stuff that seems complicated. It really isn't like Google's your friend. And then you just start finding people who have trouble with their. I mean, all these people are home with their babies who aren't sleeping, right? They want help. They are just waiting for you to. To offer it to them. So you have to create it so that you have something to offer to them. And then, I mean, like, all these ideas, even for that, like, you could turn that over into a membership, right? People go through the course, and then they're actually getting help. And then maybe in the membership, you're in the Facebook group for your membership, like, you know, once a day or a couple times a week, giving people help, or, like, they can come back and say, okay, we tried these things. The baby cried this long, and this is what we do. You know, what do we do next? And you offer some help. Like. Like this. You don't have to Learn anything else. Like you already have all the knowledge. Like, the only thing that you have to focus on is how do I, you know, construct a program so that it makes sense. You don't even necessarily have to be live in there giving help. It's just like for most things, people kind of like to be able to ask, you know, but we have this specific circumstance, what do we do with that? But like, there's so many, there's so many different things. So I think people look at me and they're like, well, she's a life coach, she's a doctor. So that she's helping doctors. So I guess I should be a life coach who helps doctors. I mean, you can be. But I feel like what's happening is that even that kind of, you know, niche is becoming a little noisy. There's a lot of people in there now. There are so many people who want help and nobody is helping them. Or if they are, it's not effective. So I just am like, listen, I guarantee you, you know, something that could help people and if all the patients could come in and learn it from you, it would help them. So how can you get that out there? And then talking about passive income, like, this is how you make money in your sleep, right? If you have this all set up and you go into a Facebook group three times a week and answer some questions, meanwhile you've got ads running. It's making you money. People are signing up, like getting support they need. You are providing value, you're helping people and you're just scaling it. You're helping more people with you doing less work. I think that's the. I remember really working with my husband on this because so many doctors have this idea like just that the way you make money is you exchange your time, right? Like, well, if I want to make more money in the office, then I need to see more patients or I need to do more surgeries. And if I want to do more surgeries, I gotta get more people in the office so that I can get enough people signed up for surgery and I don't want to work more. That is the wrong way to think about it. And the classic example of how you can really scale that is hiring mid level people, right? So you hire a physician assistant or a nurse practitioner, you teach them what you know on the things that are appropriate for them to handle. And now they're seeing patients, while you're seeing patients, now they're getting paid. But you're also making money off of them using the knowledge that you Taught them to provide value to patients, and then you get paid in return. So this is a way that you make more money by providing more value, not more of your time. So that's the way you have to be thinking about a side gig or, you know, kind of, you know, some sort of business or even if it's transitioning you out of medicine or although I'm a big pusher of like, please stay in medicine because we do need good doctors. We can't have everybody, you know, leaving and deciding to do something else. But if that.

I think it's about the choice. I mean, that's what I tell people too. I mean, it's like, yeah, you can start a business, you can leave clinical medicine, you can come back, you can go to part time, you can gradual. The key is like creating other streams of income. So you have that choice. And it's weird because once you have that choice, we talked about this, you, your mindset shifts and sometimes you start to enjoy that thing that you kind of were like, I'm a slave to it. And all of a sudden it becomes.

A lot more enjoyable. And I have so many, I have literally so many clients in particular, ER doctors, Like, for some reason. Well, in OBD too, I feel like there's some specialties that are in particular more miserable than others. But seriously, come into my program, working with me, like, literally hating it so much. Like, thinking about defaulting on their loans because they want out so bad. Just like, get rich quick schemes. They're like, how do I get out? They feel like a caged animal. They do not want to be there. And just by being coached and working on their brain and their mindset, at the end of our time working together, they're like, I can honest to goodness tell you that I love being a doctor again. And so their job has not changed, Their shifts haven't changed. Like, what they're doing hasn't. Their patient population hasn't changed. The only thing that's changed is their way of thinking. So to piggyback on what you're saying, I 100% agree. It's totally your choice. But before you make the decision to leave, first, please just clean up your brain, work on your thinking, and really recognize that you're the one creating the experience of it. So if you're the one creating the experience of it, then you have all the power to make it however you want it to be. And if you can make it so that you enjoy it and then you still would rather do something else, awesome. Totally. Go do that. But don't leave as an escape. Right? It worked out great for me. I left as an escape. I was like, I want out. I don't know how to do any of this stuff right. But I really. I often think, had I gotten more coaching when I was in practice, would I have ever done any of this? I might still be in practice. Who knows? It doesn't really matter. But I just want to put that little, you know, that little plug in there. Like, you have so much more control over liking it or not liking it than we think. We think it's just happening, like, at us and to us, and it's really not. Now, with that said, if you're working, like, you know, 80 hours a week, you know, and you get a side thing inside business, so then you can work 30, and that gives you the balance you want, and you're like, this is great. I love it. Now, like, I'm all in. And it's amazing.

That's awesome. Tell us about, you know, maybe some of the big challenges that you've kind of come across in this industry, in this field, and then, like, what you wish you knew when you first started this thing. I mean, that probably would have made things a lot easier for you along the way.

Yeah, I mean, you know, the. I mean, I'll tell. I mean, my biggest challenges are always me. Like, I'm always my biggest challenge. My own brain is always my biggest challenge. You know, just like, not knowing what you don't know sometimes. Right. Like, there's definitely been mistakes that I've made. I definitely have this tendency to, like, fall in love with my own ideas and think they're super amazing and, you know, maybe they are, but also not fully thinking it through. And then there's. There can be some, you know, sometimes there's some outcomes on the other end that are, like, less than desirable. So I'm always learning. I never make it mean that I'm a failure or that I should quit or anything. I. I just kind of assume it's going to happen. I'm like, I'm going to keep screwing stuff up, and I'm going to keep learning from it, and I'm just going to keep making my business, you know, better and better. What's been really fun is, you know, I feel like I've got some amazing program. It totally works. Like, it's. It's so great. Now I've been able to focus on creating a business where the people that work for me and really, like, where they really love their job and they really love working for me. Like my full time employee, she is a permanently mobile, like, she lives in an RV with her husband and they travel all around the country. And I just love that I've been able to create a full time job that supports her and her husband and, and she can. She's like nomadic, basically. Like, I get a lot of value out of that now. Like, so that's really fun. And I mean, I've had to learn so much about like taxes and accounting and like all the stuff that I'm, you know, unemployment insurance and all these things that my brain immediately is like, this is the worst. I hate all of this. I don't want to learn anything. And then I'm like, well, but when you're the boss, like, you got to learn about it. You got to figure out and do all this stuff. So that's. That's been hard. What I wish I knew when I first got started. I mean, you know, I'll just share actually like a story that I have, like kind of this pivotal moment that I had because I think that this was, this is a time that I can really pinpoint as, like when things really kind of took off for me. I became certified as a coach in the spring, like April, May, and then I spent the summer creating content for my website and stuff. But like, I had never really worked from home and I was trying to figure the whole thing out. I was pretty distractible. And I'd be in the middle of doing something and then the dryer would beep and I'd be like, oh, let me change the laundry. And just kind of all over the place and not really focused on it. And I had this thought that would always come back every time I think, oh, I really need to buckle down and get this stuff done. I would have this thought of, you don't really have to do this. I had this thought because honestly, my husband made enough money, I really didn't have to do it. So it was true. True. Except that thought completely made me do nothing, right? Like, the result of me thinking that thought was that I was thinking around not taking it seriously, not really doing what I need to do. And I finally had this one moment where I was like, I don't really have to do this. And I thought, you know, that's true. I don't have to. You know what? I really do want to. Like, I thought of the clients, right? Another physician out there struggling with her weight who doesn't know what to do. She doesn't have this information, and she's waiting for me to help her. Like, how can I hold that back? Like, I have to go and help her. And so I basically got over myself and was like, what I have to do or need to do or think I should do, like, isn't even relevant here. That person's out there waiting for me, and I owe it to her to go and help her, find her and help her. And then I just. Once I. Once I changed that. I was just like, oh, okay, whatever. Like, laundry gets done on that day, you know, like. Like, I need to go and help her and find her and create things that help her. And that really, it just, it all changed from there on out. So I think if you can get your brain really straight on who you're helping and why you're doing it, when you first start, like, that's that driving force. Because in the beginning, like, you know what we always say in coaching is the first a hundred K that you make is like the hustle and grind. I mean, you've got to work because you got people know about you and they're like, why should I give you a chance? And you think, well, I'll coach them for free. And then people don't take things you offer for free seriously. Right? And then they don't. You know, it's like, it's hard in the beginning, but the hardest part is how hard you make it in your brain. So once you're just like, no matter what, I'm dedicated to finding that person. Like with my baby not sleeping example, like, there's a couple out there, probably a mom on the Internet going like, somebody help me get this kid to sleep. Like, I'm going to lose my ever loving mind. Right? Like, she's waiting for you. So create something that can help her. And then that really is what keeps you doing this on the weekend when you don't feel like it, you know, or at night after you've been at work and you're tired or getting up early to do it or things like that.

I absolutely love that you keep talking about. I know you made a huge impact on all these other people, but I want to know kind of what kind of impact this whole thing has now made on your life now having done this for, oh my gosh, you know, financially, family relationships, these kind of things.

Yeah, well, I, you know, it's interesting. My oldest son is 14, and so he does remember what it was like when I was in practice. Like, he fully remembers. My little kids don't really, because I left when they were young. Enough that they. They know where I worked and they know what I did, but they don't really remember. And it's so funny, every now and then I'll be like, remember when I was in practice? He's like, oh, yeah, it was a lot harder. So, I mean, so one of the biggest things that was very hard for me in my practice was a lack of flexibility. I mean, in theory, we had flexibility, but as pediatricians, like, one of the ways it works in pediatrics is, like, kids got off the bus and they're sick and they need to come in, you know, so, like the, you know, 3:30, 4:00', clock, 4:30, there would be this rush of people who still wanted to get in. And because we really tried to serve our patients well and we figured we're the best ones to take care of them, we would work past 5 o'. Clock. We would just tell them, like, yeah, keep coming, come on in. Come, you know, so if I had to get to school for, like, the school play or, you know, a concert or something like that, it was incredibly stressful for me. And I would tell the receptionist, like, hey, listen, like, I've got to get out of here. Like, I have to be out by whatever time. Well, then, like, someone falls and splits their head open and, you know, we put in stitches. So, like. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, like, I have to go. I'm, like, so stressed about getting out of there and feeling like I really wasn't in control of my own time. Like, I couldn't even get to my own kids, you know, school performance on time because it felt so out of my control. And it's the opposite of what I have now. Like, I literally do what I want to when I want to have all the flexibility I want, which is great, but also means that I have to manage myself, right? So that's the hard thing. Like, sometimes we like it when someone tells us, like, what we're going to do, you know, like, because then we don't have to. We don't have to manage ourselves. Like, people say all the time I work from home. I would just be in the. In the kitchen or the pantry all the time. I'm like, when I'm working, I literally never think about food. Because you know why? Because I'm working. Like, not daydreaming, thinking about other things I can be doing. I'm focused on getting my work done. So flexibility has been amazing. As I have been coaching, I, of course, have invested in coaching myself and my own personal work. And that has only helped me to coach my clients so much better and more effectively to take them to. Basically, I always think, like, well, it took me, like, three years to figure this out, so I'm going to help you in, like, three months. How about we just, like, fast track you in that one and get you there? So I think a lot of my life has improved just because of the own personal work that I've done on myself and my own, you know, the way that I think, the way I approach all my relationships. I used to struggle with my. My daughter, who's my youngest, pretty considerably when she was like, four, was a really hard year for me. And I mean, literally, coaching changed my life with her and just her behavior and stuff like that. So. So it's completely changed that. I make way more money now than I ever could have as a pediatrician in practice. And that's super fun. Never thought that that would happen. Like, I really did believe that there was, like, a cap to how much I could earn based on my. Again, how many hours I was willing to work, like, how many days a week I was willing to work. And because of my specialty. And so now when I'm making as much as my surgeon husband, I'm like, look at me. That's fun, you know, but, like, as we were talking before this, right, like, but when you're the boss, you know, and there's a financial crisis, like, you eat last, right? So I'm lucky that I have enough cash reserves in my business to be able to float us along. Just kind of, you know, not knowing how things are going to go here, which is great, but, you know, really, like, you are in charge of, you know, creating a business, going for the people who depend on your business to feed their families and survive. And so, so, so I think with all of it, it's like, there's always. There's the pros and cons to everything, right? There's the things that are super great, but then there's the new things that are hard, right? Like, when I was in practice, I never had to worry about, like, getting. Paying the taxes properly, which apparently I've screwed up a bunch of times now with my state. It's so confusing. So it's like. It's things like that where it's like. But I'm really. I'm willing to figure out how to do that kind of stuff because of the benefits that I now have and the reach, you know, I just can reach so many more people.

Oh, that's awesome. I love it. All before I get to our number one tip that you have for people who are doing this. How can people reach out to you, find you if they want to find out more information about what you do, even your services, but kind of how to. Yeah, just what your business looks like.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, so my podcast is a big way that people find me. It's called Weight Loss for Busy Physicians. And so you can just search that in any of your podcast listening, you know, apps. And then my website is katrina ubellmd.com I actually have hosted now a number of free coaching calls for healthcare workers which are basically doctors who are all on it relating to Covid and just like everything that's going on with it. And so I'm offering the replays of those for free to all healthcare workers and anybody who's listening to this. So if they just because I really want to help people during this time, it doesn't have to be as awful as everyone around you seems to believe. It has to be like not that it's going to be easy or it's not a big deal, I'm not downplaying it but you really are in charge of what your experience of this pandemic is. And so watching those replays can be super helpful. So the way you can find those is just going to katrinaubellmd.com calls C.

A L L S. Well, thanks for doing that. I think everyone should check that out. Absolutely. So we're getting to the end here. I appreciate your time, but what's your number one tip for people who are considering doing something very similar to this, kind of following your footsteps. Maybe they're not doing weight loss for physicians, but maybe one of the other amazing ideas that you've given people here, what's your number one tip for them to help them along this journey?

Do not wait until you feel like you're ready. Ok? If you wait till you're ready, it's never going to happen. You have to commit to doing it and then recognize that your brain is going to offer you all the self doubt. It's going to be like this is the worst idea in the world, you shouldn't do this. It's going to offer you all of the objections, right? All of the reasons that you should do it, all the obstacles. And what you have to understand is all of those obstacles when you figure out a solution that is the path toward getting the result that you want. Right? Your brain's going like, but you don't know any of this stuff. Okay, but what's the solution. You learn about it and then you learn about it, and then that moves you one step closer. So I never do anything expecting myself to not feel doubt. Like, it's like my constant companions, like, that's not going to work. I'm like, yeah, maybe it won't, but I'm going to try it anyway. Right. Don't let that slow you down. If you wait till you're ready and you have no doubts, you'll be waiting forever.

I love that tip. Thanks so much for your time. I know people got a ton of value from this. Yeah, I mean, if you're interested, check out her website, check out what she's doing, check out her podcast. But again, thanks for your time. Congratulations on all the success you've had, but also really the big impact you made on people's lives. And thank you. Take care.

Thank you. Thanks, Peter.

Enjoy the show. Let me know by dropping a review in the podcast app you're listening to us in. And if you haven't already, make sure to hit subscribe. Are you part of our community yet? Join thousands of physicians who are also on this journey to creating their ideal lives through multiple streams of income. You can join us on our Facebook group PassiveIncome Docs, and you can always learn more at our website, passiveincomemd.com thanks again for allowing me to be a part of your journey. See you next time.