#69: How Coaching Can Help You Achieve Freedom ft Jimmy Turner, MD

Foreign. Welcome to the Passive Income MD podcast, where we talk about creating your ideal life through multiple streams of income. I'm your host, Peter Kim. If you enjoy hearing about this stuff, make sure to hit subscribe so I can bring it to you every week. Now let's get on with the show.

Hey, everyone.

Excited to have Dr. Jimmy Turner here. He's otherwise known as the Physician Philosopher. He's also the founder of the Alpha Coaching experience. You've been in my world at all blogs, podcasts, or our Facebook group, Passive Income Docs. You've heard me talking about this experience as well, this group coaching opportunity that people have, and many of you have been taking advantage of that. Well, he's here today because he's going to be talking about one of my favorite topics, which is how to free yourself from medicine if you want so that you have options and you have choices. So I'm just going to start out by saying, hi, Jimmy, how are you doing?

I'm great, Peter. I'm super excited to be here and it's always a pleasure to chat with you, man.

It's funny because every time I say your name, I'm always like, jimmy Turner, the physician philosopher. So the question you ever get if you ever call yourself the Jimmy Turner.

By any chance, is this kind of like when people are like, the Ohio State University?

Exactly. Yeah. It bothers me so much. But you are the physician philosopher. I'm not the Passive Income md, you know.

Yeah, I joke with people all the time about, like, naming stuff because I'll have people that, you know, come to me like, hey, you know, I'm thinking about starting an online business and what advice do you have? And I'll start asking them lots of questions, which is always my style. Right. What do you want to do? And they're like, I don't know. And then we'll eventually solve that problem. They'll be like, well, what do you want to name it? And they'll come up with fancy names all the time. Exactly what I did. If I could go back in time five years ago, I probably would not have named my site what I did, because no one can say it, no one can pronounce it, no one can type it into a keyboard. And if you forget the word the, I mean, nowadays we have ways of fixing that, but originally, like, if you just typed in physicianphilosopher.com, it didn't go there.

So the funny thing is now everyone knows you by that, so that's who you are, you know, I guess it doesn't matter. I mean, you know, I've seen you transition so much from when you first started on the blog and kind of how you really started to create this amazing coaching experience, a group experience. Like how did that all come to be? Because I think most people know you from your blog originally. But when did that transition happen?

Yeah, so it actually involves my story, Peter. So I started out and I was burning out in medicine. And so money, I thought the same thing a lot of doctors do, right? Financial independence, that's the best way to deal with burnout because it provides freedom. You just save up your money or you get your passive income going and then all of a sudden someday you can walk away from this job. And it turned out that even though I made the money and I built a multi six figure business and I was helping a bunch of people, I was still miserable in my job. And so money, while it is a tool, and I think that's exactly what money is. It's a tool, it's an energy, it provides opportunity for people and freedom. It is not the answer. It's a tool. It's not the end, it's the means to the end. And so really the transition for me happened when I realized, wow, money's great. And I love talking about this taboo topic that apparently other people don't in our community, people love talking about it, but outside of this, it's still taboo. But I started realizing it's a part of the puzzle. It's not the entire finished piece. So I stepped into coaching as a client myself, basically getting coached because I was burned out and I was struggling and I needed to find answers and I didn't have clarity or confidence in taking my next step. And so coaching did that for me. And now I love helping people do the same.

I had never even heard of this concept of a coach before a few years ago, I'm wondering, how did you hear about it and how did you recognize, hey, I'm burnt out? Because I'm sure there's a lot of people that either hear this or obviously there's been so much in the media about, or our media, I guess, medical media about burnout among physicians and epidemic, that sort of thing. But how did you know that a coach would be able to help you through that?

Yeah, you know, the first time that I ever got introduced to coaching actually was through you and then through Kenji and Lacey because you guys both had coaches. And I'm like, well, I know these amazing human beings that are accomplishing these unbelievable things in their lives and they Both happen to have coaches, so I kind of passed it off. And actually, back then, I even got introduced to Sonny Smith. I sent Sonny an email, and, you know, I shot her an email. I was like, hey, you know, I hear we have a lot in common. This is before Sunny was even a coach, because we're both interested in burnout and helping doctors, like, figure out, you know, transitions and the ways of dealing with that, whether they stay in medicine or leave medicine. But then we didn't talk for two years, and then, you know, she. She became my coach later. And Sunny's great. You know, I love Sonny to death, but, you know, coaching for me, like, honestly, you, like, you're the first person that, like, you talked about Tony Robbins and, like, going to these things and, like, you know, and. And how, like, just pumped you'd get and how, you know, really changed your mindset. And I think people don't realize that what keeps them stuck is this narrative that they tell themselves, whether that's about, you know, building passive income streams or whether that's about their business in medicine or, you know, their role as a parent or partner or, you know, whatever they. Whatever roles they have in their life. And that narrative can be so strong, and it keeps you stuck, and it feels like you don't have any options, you know. And so, like, I don't know, I think that you and some others basically showing an example of what is possible open that idea up to me. And then later on, someone said, hey, you're struggling. Have you ever considered getting a coach, now that you bring it up? I have before, but for business, not for my life. And so I ended up really enjoying the business coaching and life coaching in general in terms of being a client of both.

So what did that look like once you started getting coaching? Ultimately, how did your life in medicine and all that start to change or transform?

Yeah. So I think that what people don't realize, and we know this is true, and I'll give example of it in a second. But when you don't have outside perspective and you don't have people challenging the stories that are going on in your head, you will tell yourself that they are a fact. They feel like a fact. And the only difference between a thought and a belief is a belief is a thought. You've just thought so many times, you really believe it's true. And so what happens is you just get yourself stuck in this narrative, and that perspective matters so much. And my favorite example of this actually comes from Stephen Covey's book, the 7 Habits of Highly effective people. You know, he's got that story where like this dad and the kids get on the train and, and before that it was like this serene scene with like people reading their newspapers because back in the 80s, you know, when he wrote this book, but it's really calm and everybody's, you know, enjoying the Sunday morning. And this guy gets on and these kids start running around and everyone's just getting angry because he's not controlling his kids. And the guy's got his head down, he's not even paying attention. And finally Covey is like, hey, I don't know if you noticed, but your kid's really bothering people. You just gotta mind reining them in. And the guy looks up and he's like, oh, I'm sorry, I just got the news that their mother died in the hospital an hour ago. And they don't really know what to do and I don't either. So immediately he went from this kind of annoyed, like, hey, control your kids situation to compassion and empathy, all because that narrative had shifted and changed. And the same thing can happen in your business, in medicine when you know, honestly the biggest transition and one of the biggest secrets of coaching is that most doctors, and this is an offensive idea. So hopefully you don't get, if you get emails that are offensive, send those to, send those to Peter.

But, you know, right to you.

But okay, that's right, that's right. Hey, Jimmy, I need you to answer this. But it, we doctors, we recognize that burnout and you know, a lot of the issues that we have is, you know, systemic in nature. But part of the solution, whether you like it or not, is that if you consider yourself a victim who has no options, then that's exactly what you are. And so reshaping that mindset to being the hero of your own story, where you have the choice to determine whether other people are going to impact how you feel and what you think. That takes somebody showing you that you're stuck in your narrative. It takes a second set of eyes. It takes somebody being a non judgmental mirror and basically, you know, pushing you and challenging you and not not believing your story. Right? So that's the biggest difference for coaching. We're not your friend. We're not going to say commiserate and say I'm sorry. We're going to say, hey, like why are you punching yourself in the face? Stop punching yourself in the face and you might not have that black eye we're talking about right now. Right? And so I think that people do that in business, they do that. In medicine, they do that in their relationships. It really touches kind of everything, that narrative that you have, whatever that is.

And so when you started realizing that was part of your story and you were unhappy in medicine, again, how did you. Again. What was your ideal life? What were the steps that you took to get you to where you wanted to be?

Yeah, so definitely talk about that. I think that, you know, for. For people that are looking to make a change. And I'm a transparent person. You know that, Peter. So I tried going part time. I tried making lots of money outside of medicine. I tried therapy. I tried lots of different things that didn't work for me. And so I finally realized that, really, the first step in that journey is kind of taking a hard look into the story that you're telling yourself, the mindset that you have, and then using money as a tool to live that life that you want. So there's those three pillars that I talk so much about in terms of your mindset, your money, and your ideal life. And so I think it takes going through that journey and putting all those pieces together in order to find that balance. Because I know people, and I know, you know, people, Peter, that, you know, they have a better mindset. They really kind of, you know, built lots of passive income, but they still feel like their life just isn't balanced or, you know, it's without purpose, or, you know, they feel like their. Their business is running themselves, because that's an. Often a common thing is you trade physician burnout for entrepreneur burnout, which I know that I've experienced, you know, in my business. And so you're like, oh, I'm gonna. I'm gonna use this to get out of medicine. I'm gonna build this business, this real estate, you know, income and this just awesome empire, or I'm gonna build this online business. And it's great for a while, and then you start burning out because your business is running you. So it's interesting, that balance piece, even with the other two things in place, that has to exist. And for me, it took me realizing money wasn't the answer and then fixing my mindset. So now I had those two pieces together, and then, honestly, the last year of my life has been figuring out, what do I want to do? What's my purpose, what's my calling? Who am I helping? Why am I helping them? How do I help them do that? And I feel like I'm really in a much better place now after having that.

I mean, I think that a Lot of people, they can understand. Okay, now I'm going to talk to a coach. I'm going to get to my mindset, right? I've got those things that are stuck, but then they're going to think about, you know, what do I do, though, to create that other income? I think that question comes up so much. Like, I understand money's a tool. I know I got to create money elsewhere. Right. I know that in some ways, the money is what's really holding me to medicine, is kind of feel shackled because of it. Like, what are some of the things that you've kind of coached and helped your clients to, I'd say, break away into in terms of creating that extra income?

So I think, by far and away, the most common thing is fear. So people have a fear, and they usually can't name what it is specifically, which is really interesting, because when you can, you can kind of start attacking it and saying, well, is that really true? Is that something that I'm afraid of? And I'll tell you, for example, in the online space, one of the big things is like, oh, I want to start a blog or a podcast, or I want to become a coach, or, you know, and what will stop people is they're afraid of being embarrassed. They're afraid of putting something out, like we're doing right now a podcast. The words that are coming out of my mouth right now, there are going to be people that resonate totally, completely with it, and they're going to be other people that want to punch me in the face. And I'm completely fine with that at this point. But when I first started, I had to overcome that fear of hearing what people thought, you know, and recognizing that you got to find your people. And so, like, the fear of embarrassment or the fear of public humiliation, as an example, in the online space in real estate, it might be the fear of, I don't know what to do. And it's like, well, do you really not know what to do? Is that really what's going on there? Are there ways that you could figure that out? Or are you just telling yourself that so you can stay stuck because it's more comfortable? Because, hey, that first deal might fail. That's possible. It doesn't mean you shouldn't keep doing it. And so the second that people can flip in their mind that the obstacle isn't in the way, the obstacle is the way to success, that failure is on the journey to being successful, that success is on the other side of that journey. That really gets people past this stuck point of like, how do I get started? Because honestly, and we all know this, if you're an entrepreneur, you're listening to this, you know this, the best way to learn something is to get into action. And so my job as a coach is to get you to overcome whatever fear you have and get you into action so that you can take the next step in your journey. And when you take that next step, you're either going to get what you wanted or you're going to get the lesson that you needed. And that's just the process that happens in the entrepreneurial space, right? So you got to overcome all that. And 100% of that is your mindset.

I mean, so what kind of results are you seeing in people when they're trying to do this? Because I think that it helps for people to know what the potential is. And so what are you seeing out there? For physicians who have kind of taken these steps, they've kind of unshackled themselves, their mindset from not being able to do it, changing their story, their narrative, and ultimately just taking action on that. Like, what does that look like on the other side?

You know, I'll let people in on a little secret here, right? So in the online space, people will often say, like, you sell them what they want, and then when they get inside, you give them what they need. And, and I'll be honest with you that that's often what happens in inside of the alpha coaching experience with our clients is we'll have people come in and they're like, you know what? I want to start a business or I want to go part time, or I want to change jobs, or I'm thinking about quitting medicine altogether. And like, they. They come in and that's where their mind's at. And the overwhelming majority of them end up falling back in love with medicine and falling back in love with their job. They just need to tweak things a little bit. And, you know, they need to figure out what those problems are, which is really the real work is to be done. And then, you know, so I'd love to say, like, you know, oh, yeah, they come in and they do exactly what they thought they were going to do. It's more like, you know, how, like, you're like, hey, when I go to medical school, I know exactly what's special. Like, I wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon, you know, and like, I ended up being an anesthesiologist. When I went to residency, I thought I was going to do Peds, hearts. And I ended up doing regional anesthesia and basically doing none. Like, no pediatrics at all. And so it's. It's that same story where you think you know what you want coming in, but really what they know is they want to make a change. There certainly are examples of people changing jobs. I have examples of people that quit medicine and that they're currently taking a leave for a few months because they're trying to find the best fit for them. And have examples of people building online businesses and starting blogs and podcasts and that sort of thing. And so those things do exist. But I'd be lying to you if I said that really what happens is they come in and then they reshape that mindset. It changes their life. And then from a place of power, place of abundance, they get to go make those businesses instead of from a place of scarcity, where you're scared. And by the way, if you are in a place of scarcity, and Peter, you and I have talked about this, like, your business doesn't grow. Like, if you're. If you're doing it because you need to do it, and the money has to come in and, like, you're dependent on that next paycheck to come. Like, life has this funny irony. It just doesn't happen. But the second you, like, don't make it about the money, and you make it about, you know, transformations for people and helping other people and, you know, really just living in this. This life of abundance, that's when things happen and change, you know, and so I think what happens is they have that transformation, and then they do go. They do go build the business. But it's not because they're trying to escape medicine anymore. It's because that's what's just what they want to do.

I mean, how are you able to see people actually accomplish this? Because I'm sure that when they're in that situation where they're unhappy in medicine and maybe they have family and they need support, you know, they feel like, I just don't have the time, I don't have the energy. Like, where am I gonna find this extra kind of couple hours in my day, that extra reserve to go devote to something and building something else? Like, where. Where are people able to do that?

Yeah. So I think that. I think the two ways that people, you know, two items I would say that people really put in front of themselves are time and money. It's always time and money, right? And. And when it comes to time, what. What I always tell People is, you know, there. There are 24 hours in your day, and that's true for everybody. So it's not like the people that, like, magically get all this stuff done. Like, you're crazy productive. Peter, you're a great example of this. It's not like you somehow built. I mean, if you have built a time machine, let me know. But it's not like you've built a time machine and you've somehow created 26 hours in your day that all the rest of us only get 24. And that's how you're so productive, right? And so when you start to realize that your time isn't the thing that's limiting you, it's likely that you don't have a lot of clarity on the principles and priorities that are in your life. And you're saying yes to things that are making you say to know the stuff that you really care about, and we get clear on what that is, and you set up boundaries and you learn the art of saying no, which is really, really important. Then you're like, oh, I do have time for this. Or you learn to what they call delegate or delete stuff like, oh, that's not as important as I thought. There's so many time efficiency ways we batch stuff. When I do podcast recordings for the Physician philosopher, Money Meets Medicine, I record two or three episodes in a sitting, right? And that's because I'm already in that mind space. It's more efficient to just get stuff done. So there are tools and tips and tricks to being more efficient with your time. And that stuff's really, really important. But what's more important than that is learning to overcome this idea that you don't have enough time. What you really mean is that it's not a priority right now. And getting honest about that is important because if you look at it, you're like, I don't have this time for this thing I really want to do. Well, guess what? Something else has got to go. You know, and that might mean going part time. It might mean, you know, dropping responsibility, that one committee or book chapter you're writing or whatever, and that's fine. It's okay. Why are you doing it? Is it because you're people pleasing? You know, is it like, so diving into the specifics of that's different for so many people, you know, But I think that that's a really important one. And money is the other one, man. So like people. And it's funny because when it gets down to investing in, you know, a Real estate property, for example, right? People are like, oh, well, it's going to cost me 25 grand to invest in this syndication. But they look at the numbers and like, oh, well, but my returns, they're going to be worth it. There's a very measurable return on your investment. And so people are like, it's very concrete. It's very measurable. And so people are like, they can easily wrap their mind around that. But the second you say, hey, like, you know, you need to go pay this consultant to help you with your business, like, oh, no, no. I mean, why would I do that? And it's a funny thing. So your mind plays tricks on you, right? So I'm a big car guy, and I've actually been looking at buying a Porsche Cayman at some point, but I'm a big car guy, right? Yeah, they're sweet. Porsche Cayman, GTS 981, flat 6. That'd be sweet. Probably gonna happen the next year or two. And so if I came to your house and I was like, hey, Peter, I've got this Porsche, this 911 Turbo S sitting outside your house, right? And I just need you to pay me $5,000 and that 911 is yours, you're not going to be like, no, I don't have $5,000. You're gonna find $5,000. That's $150,000 car. You turn around and sell it. So it's not really about the money. It's about the value, right? And so when you start reshaping things, you're like, oh, my value is really what I'm trying to get out of this. It doesn't have to be a measurable roi. Like, it just needs to be valuable to me. And whatever transformation I'm trying to make in my life, right? And that could be, you know, anything that is an investment of your time or your money. It's really about the value. And honestly, on the other side of that for doctors is decoupling time and money from, like, this idea. And I know you love this idea, right? Like, that your time is not linked to how much money you make, right? Like, like your. Your hour spent at the hospital making, you know, $200 an hour or $400 an hour, whatever you do. Like, it doesn't have to work like that. Like, you can work less and make more. That's totally a thing. And you and I are both examples of that, right? So people couple those ideas again. That's another narrative that you have. And so part of getting out of that, getting that trapped narrative out of there is by just decluttering all these ideas and getting clear on them. Right? Yeah.

So what does your life look like now? I mean, now that you've done all this, you've been through all this mindset work, you've kind of put all this stuff into action and you've talked about, you know, things you tried, this didn't end up being like that. And, you know, you end up finding more issues and here and there. So what's it look like today?

Yeah, so I now work two days a week. I work Thursdays and Fridays as an anesthesiologist, and then I'm off for five days of the week, and I work on my business when I want to and I don't when I don't, you know, so it's. It's a ton of freedom, a ton of flexibility, and, you know, it's been a really good transition for me, and I've really been enjoying that. That actually started, I guess, about six weeks ago. So now. Now it's great. It's a perfect balance for my family. I get to go to my, you know, my little boy soccer matches and, you know, practices on Mondays and Wednesdays and Saturdays. And, you know, I'm doing anesthesia, which I still love. So, like, I love doing medicine. So part of my trap story was realizing I. I really actually do love practicing medicine. And so I continue to do that a couple days a week, but I, you know, don't do it any more than that.

I mean, what do you say to people who say, like, nah, that sounds great for you. You know, you're an anesthesiologist or you made it work or this, this sort of thing. Like, it wouldn't work for my life. Like, I'm sure there are people here that be like, I can't work two days a week. It just doesn't work with what I have.

Yeah, it's fun diving into that because everyone's situation's a bit different. And I think that one of the biggest stumbling blocks, and this is probably going to turn some people off even hearing this, because it's not a coaching call. Right. But is this idea that I don't have a choice? We tell ourselves that all the time. Like, my situation, it is what it is. I don't have a choice. And really pushing back on that and people understanding. Everything in your life is a choice. Now, there are consequences to your choices, but everything in your life is a choice. You don't have to wake up and go to the hospital Tomorrow. I know it seems like that's not a choice, but that's absolutely a choice. Now, are you going to get paid if you don't go? Probably not. And so you have to deal with the consequences of that. But you got to realize that you're not trapped. It's a choice. And so, you know, when people say, like, I just like my life, I just can't, just can't do that, it's just not possible. There are examples out there of people that are doing exactly what you're talking about right now. Examples of surgeons that are working part time, examples of, you know, primary care physicians who are working part time or who have transitioned to utilization management, or they. And have tons of flexibility in that, or they've gone and built a real estate empire. You know, like a lot of, a lot of your audience. Right. And so when you start showing people like these examples of people that exist and that what they're saying, that they're stuck, there are no options, there's no choice, isn't really true. That's just what they're telling themselves. And you just keep pushing back on them on everything. They start to realize that, oh, maybe I do have options. And then, and then it's just a matter of figuring out what the best course forward is for that person.

You know, it's funny because, I mean, part of the reason I asked that is that I remember when we first got to know each other and you're talking about these type of things and you're like, I remember certain things that came out of your mouth. Like, I'm an academic medicine. You can't do it in my world. You know what I mean? And it's so funny to see this thing happen and how you've been able to kind of transform your mindset and actually transform your career and your ideal life. And so kudos to you. I think you're a great example of it. I know that now you're paying it forward for other people. Where can people find out more about this whole Alpha coaching experience? I know that you have some other opportunities for people to just kind of hear and learn from you.

Yeah. So if, if you go to, you know, the physicianphilosopher.com Alpha that's a L, P H A, you can learn about the Alpha coaching experience and everything that's in there and all the things that were, are provided in that coaching opportunity where we help people kind of make those transitions, those changes, and stop feeling trapped in medicine and create a life they love in addition to all the testimonials of the. We have had over 100 people go through it now, Peter. So it's. It's been pretty. Pretty awesome to see that, you know, and so that.

That.

That's the. The first option. And if you want to learn more about those three pillars that I talked about earlier. So you want to learn more about how to master your money and your mindset and design your ideal life. I'm actually holding a masterclass, too. So that's, you know, at the position philosopher.com masterclass.

But what happens at one of those masterclasses for people who never participate in those.

Yeah, so I love. Man, I love teaching. I love showing up live and interacting with people. It's why I stayed in academics. And so really, it's an opportunity for people to learn some of the stuff that I've learned in my life and that I've learned from coaching other clients. And, you know, by, you know, really kind of stepping through this journey with so many other people. And, you know, it's a fun opportunity also for people to ask questions, because they have lots of questions, right? Like, you know, hey, but. But this is my situation. That doesn't. It can't apply to me. And, like, really diving into some of that and answering some questions. So there's a Q A session at the end where we talk about, you know, a lot of the questions people have, whether it's about this coaching or, you know, another program, like. And honestly, Peter, at the end of the day, I really don't care where you get your help. I just care. The doctors are getting help they need, right? And so, like, whether that's with us or that's with someone else's program. You know, I mentioned. I mentioned Sunny earlier. She's an amazing coach. And I really think that this is an opportunity for us as physicians to kind of reclaim some of that autonomy that we're missing, because that's really the fundamental problem is we don't feel like we're in control. And when you can be empowered and take that back, I mean, so much change can happen. So, you know, these masterclasses, I just hope to empower people, provide some change, you know, some ways for them to apply some tools, even after the masterclass and some other opportunities if they want to continue after that. But really, it's all about physician empowerment and making the change that we all know we need to.

Well, I think it's awesome what you're doing. Obviously, you're serving our community, right? You're helping. You're a shining example of a physician who created a business to help other physicians. And I love those type of businesses. Right. My co founder for a lot of the stuff I do in Passive Income, MD Pranay Parikh, he always just says the world would be a better place if we had a lot more physician entrepreneurs. And I absolutely believe that because I think ultimately our hearts are definitely in the right place. And so you're a shining example of that. If anybody's interested in finding out more about the Alpha coaching experience, you know, Jimmy mentioned the flip places to find out about the actual, you know, the actual course, the actual program as well as some of those masterclass you can join up, throw them in the show notes as well. But Jimmy, it's always good talking to you. Thanks for sharing all this, you know, nuggets of information and wisdom. I appreciate you, man. I always love seeing the great things you're doing.

Yeah, it's always great chat with you, Peter. I appreciate you having me on.

All right, take care. Talk again soon.

See you guys.

Enjoy the show. Let me know by dropping a review in the podcast app. You're listening to us and if you haven't already, make sure to hit subscribe. Are you part of our community yet? Join thousands of physicians who are also on this journey to creating their ideal lives through multiple streams of income. You can join us on our Facebook group Passive Income Docs and you can always learn more at our website, passiveincomemd.com thanks again for allowing me to be a part of your journey. See you next time.