#74 How Doctors Can Make an Impact by Building an Online Brand, ft. Sanjay Juneja, MD

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We're gonna have fun with this episode. Today we're gonna talk to Dr. Sanjay Speaker Juneja. He's a triple board certified hemonc physician. He's in Baton Rouge. I got to read his intro because it's just. It's too good here. So I got to read this whole thing. So you partnered with the American Oncology Network. You're a founding medical partner of Drpedia.com, where you serve as the Chief Engagement Officer and CMO of the Oncology Channel. You're well known out there as a social media educator, and he's a medical influencer with over 500,000 followers all across different platforms. He is known as the Ankh Doc, and we're going to talk all about that. He's been featured on dozens of podcasts all over tv, online. He's everywhere, and we're so lucky to have him here today. How you doing, Sanjay?

Oh, I'm doing well and thank you so much for having me. It's. It's an honor to be here and to listeners to, you know, like to hear about stuff healthcare related but kind of at a new angle. So I really appreciate what you're doing and the people's interests.

I mean, I just got. I got turned on to you first because. Because my wife was like, you got to look at this. You know, you got to look at what this guy's doing online. And it's funny because I think we had talked about this. You were actually under a different handle before.

Right, Right. Yeah. So I was on a different handle. And it really didn't start with kind of like a medical inspired, I guess, entry into, like, social media. I didn't really. I still don't have a Twitter, which I know you just don't tell other people that are, you know, online facing. But. But I did it for more like. Right. Brain stimulation. So, like, you know, medicine and med school and fellowship were pretty stressful. And. And so my wife is also a hematologist oncologist, and her. And our kids were away, like they were. She was practicing and I was finishing up my chief fellow year. So I just started doing like, the anonymity of TikTok was appealing because on all of the platforms, like your friends Follow you, Your follower base is somehow somebody that wants to follow you. Whereas on TikTok, it's. It's just a free market. You just throw it up there. People don't find you unless like you've really kind of blown up. And that anonymity was nice to just kind of, you know, be more right brained and. And not something you could do locally, I guess.

It's so funny. You talk about the anonymity, but now where you are today, you're totally gone.

That's gone?

Yeah, that's way gone past that. I mean, it's funny because a lot of people just kind of start on there just for fun. It sounds like that's kind of where you started.

Right?

But was this always part of something? Like, you know, in your background, like before you went into medicine, were you always kind of a performer? Did you put yourself out there? Like, where did this start from?

Yeah, so I kind of call myself a Gemini to the T. I don't know how much people believe in zodiac sign stuff, but part of that was always the theatrical. They're performers and I never really, I guess, got to do that. It's not that I didn't want to, but in the medical objective kind of left brain route, there's not a lot of wiggle room. But I did dance in high school and performed at the Kennedy center and stuff. And I like social dancing and all that stuff, but never quite acting. And then that's what appealed me to. It was just because there was like this little ad and I started making videos. I liked how you just adopt a trend or a sound. And I was doing that again completely non medically. I don't even think doc was in my handle at first. It was like Cerebral Seed, which was the name of a little blog I did where I kind of brought philosophical concepts about humanity and tied them in with science and talked about how there's like an allegory there. But anyway, so that's how that started. And then when I started some videos that went viral, I guess we have this concept in the eastern world in India about balance. So if you're getting like a lot of attention or like, you know, say, like, say, ooh, like, and people are noticing you. You kind of have to balance that out, you know, with some something giving back into the world, I guess, to keep it, you know, humble and not do it all in vain. And so I was like, well, I have all these followers. Let me kind of talk about the importance of cancer screening or kind of gender bias in Medicine that was a big one because my wife's blonde hair, blue eyes, I'm an Indian male, just, I saw very directly over 13 years kind of a difference in how we were treated. So I tried to bring light to these issues in the midst of fun again in, you know, in the, in the interest of harmony and balance in the world.

I mean, a lot of people, when they put themselves out there, social media, there's always this fear of whether your patients are going to see you. Who else in your whole colleagues, you know, in your world is going to see you. Was there ever a concern about that as your audience started to grow?

Certainly as it started to grow, at first it wasn't because you do have to, you have to get to a certain point where that's really feasible. And then, you know, and I, we kind of very briefly rehearsed about how we want to, you know, encourage people and tell them kind of what to do with. With if they're thinking about being online. And, and that is one of those things that I did lose when it, when it did make it, quote unquote, which really was never my, like, again, intention or goal. I just always thought of myself as, I'm going to be an oncologist and that's where I spend my time and everything else is social. But then I saw this value that people were kind of sharing that they received from the content and they're like, this is the cleanest, easiest way I've seen something explain about, you know, XYZ cancer or why, you know, anemia makes you. And so I realized, like, you know, that's where any medical professional or any, any person in general, you, you always want to sacrifice things if, if you can better. More like if the, if the trade off is a lot of people benefit. Why wouldn't you sacrifice anything in your life to, to help, you know, people as a whole? So, yeah, I'd lost that part of that kind of more, I guess, right. Brain stuff I was talking about, but pales in comparison to being able to have this platform now to give people, you know, especially with a younger generation that really want to know about things, like, to provide that in a kind of a fun way. I mean, I would do that, you know, a hundred times over between the two. And. Yeah, but you have to be careful. And especially in my field where, you know, at least 25% of the day I'm sharing bad news. Right. Like, and things that do hurt me, like to say that, you know, it's the end of the road and we've had an awesome, you know, I get to know these patients sometimes for years, every two weeks, and then like to make a TikTok slide hard at the same day. I worry would think that that means that I didn't care. It wasn't hurt about what happened. It's not. It's just that's that. That is also to like, continue to help people and how to kind of get those messages out there.

Tell me about your day a little bit that you, you mentioned a little bit about how you go. You see patients in day and then do you go home at night? I mean, and spend, you know, hours on this thing? Like, what does that look like? How are you able to balance those things?

No, so I wish. And I get a lot of, you know, some of you get into these little social media circles. I'm sure your wife has that too, which I didn't know existed. But like, you just get put on threads and you get to know, you know, a much larger network of people kind of doing what you're doing. And a lot of them are like, Sunday doesn't post enough and this and that. But, but my wife and I, like I said, are both oncologists. So every day is pretty much, I mean, get up at 7 and then get done with work around 6 and then very serious about being a good dad. So like, I play with my kids from like six to eight or nine. And then if I have time and the energy, I will like permit myself like to be able to post something or I'll have ideas like when I'm like running to the bathroom between patients, I'll. I'll maybe jot something down. But I usually revisit them two or three evenings if I have time. And then Thursdays is my administrative day. So I try to make, make sure that I have content at least, you know, a couple of posts for the next week on a Thursday. And I just kind of have them in drafts and post them. But it's certainly not something that unfortunately I can't keep, you know, up to date on. Comments. All my notifications are off. And. And because most of my, like, daily life is definitely practicing.

I mean, it sounds like as things started to grow, it started to open up different opportunities for you. Right? I mean, I've kind of mentioned in your intro bio you're working with these large health organizations. You're also working with these other companies like doctorpedia as well as you've been on different podcasts and local networks and things like that. How did that world open up to you. And how did you actually make your way into it?

Yeah, so I think it started with some of the tiktoks where I like to break something down that was otherwise a scary concepts like, you know, cancer or, or why, you know, you do get fatigue or restless legs with iron deficiency and how iron deficiency kind of anemia, but you have other anemias. So I was like, it's stuff I do every day, right. And I say it all the time with new patients. And so that's where I realized like what I'm saying to 20 people in one clinic day. I could literally say and I have to 2 million people in 24 hours. And it's the same like conversation. So it's like there's this magnitude to be able to really amplify the things you know best and it's recyclable. So when I started doing that, that's when like, you know, the stations open up and different companies to say like, hey, could you like come on. And you're basically just potentiating what you know and what you deliver. And that's why I do encourage some health professionals to think about it. It's like, you know so much. You've become so uber specialized. You can limit it to a 20 mile radius of people that you see and touch or you could have no radius and no bounds as far as what, like the way you say something, the way you explain it could actually touch somebody in a way that nothing else that they could read could find. And so let's maximize that. You put in the work, you put in 13, 15 years of, you know, medical education and, and so that's, you know, that's kind of how it continued to unfold and without talking too much in a row, but that's what Dr. Pedia is kind of achieving. And our concept behind that is like, here's all this education people want to know, right? Like, that's why I think my only reason my brain took off is people want to know about blood and cancer in a relatable way, in an honest way. And then how do you get a whole bunch of doctors to come together and basically have recyclable information? They're saying every day so that people that really want to know and be proactive and like care about their health now more than ever, you know, with the younger generations. And I love that you got to get that, you got to give them the resource and we're all trained to do so. The community has enabled us get it out there and give them that Information, you know, so talk a little bit.

About your role there because I think it's actually pretty fascinating when physicians are able to, you know, kind of almost merge like some sort of, almost like business kind of side of their brain, right, where they kind of become these different roles in these companies and then also are able to use what they've learned and all they trained with. With all their health to kind of merge those things together. Like, what does it actually mean for you? Like that chief engagement Officer or CMO of the channel's, like, what does that actually mean? Cause I think it sounds really cool to a lot of people, but they don't really understand the mechanics of what that is.

So the, the main thing that I'm trying to accomplish as chief medical officer of oncology is I get second opinions, like patients that are second opinions to see me. And, and I get a bunch of stories that I do read sometimes late at night from people across my social media handles. And they're all saying that, like, doc, I just don't. We don't know anything about, like, what's happening with my husband or my son or my wife's or mom's cancer. Like, I don't know what stage it is. Why aren't we doing chemo? People are getting in my head saying, like, well, you should be doing radiation. And it just, it continued to hit me that it's so. It's so unfortunate that when cancer management, we're trying to do the best we can, there's no reason we can't remove the factors of uncertainty or confidence or like, lack of knowledge. Like, that's inexcusable. We can't cure cancer tomorrow, but we're managing it really well. But why can't we just let people know and feel comfortable about what is going on? And there's a lot of reasons for that. And the healthcare system is anything but optimal. And it's not that doctors, not all of them at least, like, don't just want, you know, a lot of money and see a lot of patients. Unfortunately, like, for me, even in our town, people have to wait three weeks to even get their cancer addressed or treated. So they're just sitting there at home knowing this cancer is, quote, unquote, growing. And so you have to see patients a lot shorter amount of time just to meet the needs of your community. That's almost like, that's most communities in the states. So you can't spend that time that you would want to until there's enough oncologists to take care of Everybody. Well, here with the oncology CMO part, that's where we're building everything from top to bottom, because I want everyone to get access to that information as if they were in my room so they can feel better. You see this tremendous courage and strength that comes out of what seemed like a really meek and scared person on visit one. And then on visit four, they're just like, laughing and just confident. Doesn't matter. The diagnosis didn't change. It's not a stage four, it's not the second line. All that's the same. But the headspace of the family and the patient is, is literally 180 degrees different. And the only missing piece was just the education and knowledge about what's going on. Like, if that's the case, we as entire health care system, like, should give that. I mean, that's easy. Like, and, and that's what we're trying to build. So from the staging, what is a biopsy? What does it mean? When do you get radiation? When don't you? What are hormone receptors? And breast cancer is a genetic. We just want to have all that information because we know it's empowering. And I see it every day on what that empowerment does. And so we've gotten like, a whole bunch of, like, doctors like Yale and I mean, UCSF all over the country in their fields, breaking it down in two minute digestible videos so that people can share it and support their patients with cancer and all that stuff. And then the engagement, that part is just to, like, is to get people to realize we're building this free resource of, you know, a ton of doctors to just be able to talk about anything, Your nose job, your gallbladder surgery, whatever, you sleep apnea, whatever you have a question of. It's so hard to navigate online because there's no, like, there's no like, this is fact. This is not like anything would be online. And here you're only seeing doctors that are specialists on it talking about their field that will hopefully comfort people and make them more knowledgeable.

I mean, you think it's important for any, any physician listening to this. Like, is it important for almost everyone to consider how to build their brand online and this kind of thing? Because I think for a lot of people, they're like, oh, I'm just happy to do my thing. But is there any sort of utility that at least everybody that should, you know, everyone who's considering this, like, should at least think about it and, you know, is there some benefit for, for anyone, even if they're Just in private practice, in the middle of nowhere, I.

Think, I mean private act is in the middle of nowhere. You know, there you might be able to, if you're very saturated with your work, you know, necessarily building a brand for the means of like, you know, getting patients may not be your incentive, which is for some people, like in my case too, it doesn't need to be like it's not to. To see more patients because like it's very. There's a lot of cancer where I am. But what it does do is it what I think is, improves the quality of care during the visits with your patients. Because now like Dr. PD, the other side of it is where doctors can you get. It's hard for a doctor to do. I don't know anything about like online space and building a site and I don't know how to do any of that. Well, we designed a place, totally optional obviously where doctors can just like, like have everything built for them. So the producer, they just record what they're saying every day about whatever they're teaching. And then these like producers will just make little videos about all that stuff, make their profile, their website, all that stuff. And so what I've started doing is myeloma. Extremely complicated to explain to somebody. It's a protein cancer. I have to use 55 minutes of my 60 minutes just to explain to them because I know it's important what myeloma is. That only leaves five minutes for me to actually talk to them about themselves at that point and hear how they're doing. So what this does is now I'm starting to get my sight and say, look, I want you to learn everything about it. Here are all my videos. This is what I would have said to you anyway. Let's use that 55, that 60 minutes and that 15 minute visit to talk about how it relates to you personally. And so suddenly you're spending all this time like of high value and quality in your clinic talking about the patient themselves. You can find out about stuff that they have symptoms of that you weren't able to ask because you were doing a good job of teaching. And it's recycled. So all that stuff you keep saying is recycled. On the knowledge base, it's still the same doctor. So they feel comfortable with you. And then they come in and then they can say, hey, remember when you mentioned this mutation? You're like, oh yeah. And then let me find what it was. But it's cool because then it's more collaborative and that's what health care should be. I Think there's a lot more trust and a lot less mistrust when really you feel like you're a part of like, you know, optimizing your health and not so much just told what to do and you have this and you have that. That's just not what people want anymore and rightfully so. Like, it feels better and it's more like encouraging and rewarding to do it together, to be knowledgeable. And I think that's the most ideal kind of relationship.

I mean, I think there's a lot of people that hear this and, and like they'll feel inspired to want to take that step, build their brand, put themselves out there a little bit. But I think for a lot of them, the first step is the hardest. Right? It's like the first hurdle. Oh man, I'm gonna look silly. I'm gonna look silly. Like, like what you mentioned, like somebody just, you said, oh, somebody can just record themselves and Docpedia will spice it up and that sort of thing. Like, how are they recording themselves? Are they using like high end cameras? Like, what, what are people doing to get started, like in that first step?

Yeah, no, it's your iPhone. I mean, it's your iPhone. You set it up. You know, iPhones now, the newer ones shoot ridiculous HD 4K quality. And then you just send it. You literally just send it. And then they cut it up, they put in some B roll. And again, my patients, the feedback I've gotten, they're like, man, like, it was just really, I got to re. Watch it multiple times and I can't ever pause you and rewind you in the clinic. And then, you know, and I've shared with my family members and, and it's weird, like, you almost see like couples, their relationship get stronger and better because now they have this like, mutual hobby about this complicated, you know, disease that they're, they're battling together. And, and, and I see that confidence just like really precipitate to the surface. It's really rewarding to see that. But, but yeah, it's really easy. I mean, you just, you put it, you do it every day, you know, to your patients, and instead this time you do it in front of the camera. And it's rewarding because the cutting up can make you seem really, you know, you find the good parts where you sound the strongest and, and, and that's it. And then everything's built. It's a really streamlined way to do it. And again, I think it maximizes the quality of care you can give in your clinic. Because you have all that in one place.

I mean, it sounds like again, all this stuff has been amazing for you. I'm sure there have been some challenges along the way where, you know, it's been tough going or maybe there have been some naysayers or this kind of thing. Can you mind sharing a little bit about that?

Yeah, I mean, I, I realize I'm very fortunate because I think overall the reception's been like, you know, pretty good or encouraging and kind of like, you know, telling me it's worth the time because obviously there's a big cost as far as sleep and just like, you know, it's an additional thing to do in the day. But I think when you do anything with like a sense of like goodwill and authenticity, that always shows like we have this innate nature as humans. To really know what someone's characters and intents are. And someone hyper judgmental at first may see something on the surface, but just know that if your integrity is there, if you believe in the least of human virtue, you know that integrity will be received and seen. And so that was easily the biggest thing to carry me. I want people to be more knowledgeable about the stuff that I'm a specialist in. I want to guide them better. I want them to feel more confident about how they're being managed, where they're being managed. So that part helps, you know, where some people may say some things here and there and then the other part is, is, you know, in your community there is like, like I said, you have to give up some things to be, to be camera facing, but really as a professional you have to do that anyway. So I don't think that's as, as big of a challenge as some say either. But the naysayer part, like, you know, just remember your integrity. Like why are you doing what you're doing and what is the overall return and, and even if it's to bring people to your, you know, practice or business, and it's, and it's more facing towards the marketing side, like hopefully, because you have a really good quality of care to give and you want people to know what you can offer. And that's the way to getting yourself out there as well.

Man, I think it's awesome. So what's the next step for you? Like, where does this go from here? I mean, you're building this whole thing, but where do you see yourself in a few years?

Ideally, I would just like keep being able to make content for people. Like, and it's not me being filmed necessarily. I mean, the Experts from everywhere. I have, like, this, you know, awesome CC surgeon and colorectal surgeon that I had filmed here to talk about, like, everything involved with lung cancer surgery and colon cancer surgery. And I want ultimately people to have a landing page where they feel really comfortable to say, you need to go to this site and they'll teach you everything. So, you know, going into that oncology appointment or that surgery appointment, because again, it's 2021, there's Internet everywhere. And it's like, it's just so unforgivable that it's so difficult to just understand just literally the way things that are being managed. Not even necessarily the full science of it or the trial data, but just. Just the basics of what does new adjuvant mean? And not. And. And they deserve that. Everyone deserves that. Cancer is really hard enough to. To battle on its own, in and of itself, like psychologically. And then to have to also not get these tools that can be provided is. It's something we just got to catch up on. And there's a lot there. It evolves very fast. So this thing will never die because every month there's new indications. I mean, really, you're even updating people that are in smaller communities that aren't able to keep up reading journals all day because they're very busy just meeting the basic needs. So I think things can be really optimized in the scope and. And I'm just honored that, you know, celestial orchestration willed me in a position. I do see this like, step, step wise thing. Like maybe that's where these silly videos that were, you know, a little sophomore turned into like then being, you know, kind of a doctor facing and TikTok person for personal brand. And then I now I see the next step is beyond me. But it's to like, help people that you never really see or know that that need it and that you're touching. So that's an exciting thing to be a part of.

I mean, I think it's awesome. I mean, where can people find out more about you? Where can they see these things? I kind of mentioned your handles, but did you mind sharing a little bit specifically about where people can find out more about you and your content?

Yeah. So the ONC doc, it's a vthe onc for oncology onc doc. I have content on TikTok and Instagram as well as the Facebook page. Sanjay Janasia, MD. And then I have a YouTube the on doc, which everyone's been telling me to post on YouTube shorts. I just need to. Need to pull the trigger and do that as well. Uh, and then@drpedia.com where it's. It's not optimized. We're working on it. We have a ton of videos. But if you do have a surgery you're nervous about something, you can just type in the toolbar like, like to basically quote, unquote, Google, but Dr. PD that thing. And you'll get some specialists that, that talk about that specific subject. And I have a profile there as well with. I've probably filmed about a hundred videos relating to bladder cancer that you can find access to there.

I think it's amazing. I mean, I think that they're going to be people that want to follow in your footsteps. Like, what's like the number one tip or the best tip you give for someone is like, I want to do what you do and kind of follow. Follow in that same path.

I would definitely. I mean, you nailed it. You really should reach out to people that you align with and, and get their guidance. Like, I would hope that most people that, you know, are doing what I'm doing or got here by serendipity. Like, every opportunity I get, you know, especially with. I've had like, oncology fellows and some residents say I want to do that. Like, I love to be able to just share that knowledge because it is, it is definitely a fail and learn kind of process. And then that can be really kind of like slimmed down when you reach that influencer content creator or whatever, because they'll just tell you all that stuff that they learned and then you'll build on it. So reach out, just quote, unquote, DM them, you know, on Instagram and, and. And the other part of that is just breaking the seal like it is. Trust me, even me, I filmed so many times before my first video even came up because it seems uncomfortable and this and that. But like anything, the more you do it, the more comfortable you get. So you do that and you reach out. I hope, again, as a general rule, everyone wants to help other people. And so if you're thinking about it and you're listening to this, I think that's your celestial orchestration to tell you to pull out that phone, hit that app store and just go for it. Who knows what's ahead? Who knows how many people are waiting to just benefit from. From this, you know, thought in the back of your head that just needs precipitation. This is it on this, you know, Peter Kim's podcast right now.

You heard that, right?

Right?

This is your calling right here. If you're listening to this, well, I want to thank you for all the work that you do. It's amazing. Again, I've been a fan, personally. My wife in that world again, she's been a fan as well. And I know you're doing some amazing work out there, so you probably don't hear it enough, but I love how you kind of balance all that with your mission. And I know you take that in a good way. But anyways, I want to thank you for your time. This has been amazing. And yeah, keep up the great work and let's talk again soon.

Yeah, I would love to. And thank you all so much. I have a lot of respect for everything you all are doing. And to everyone listening, just for caring about health and care. I mean, it sounds cheesy, but it's really, it's a really cool thing. I appreciate it.

All right, thanks. Take care.

Bye.

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