If God Is in Control, Are We Really Free? | Table Talk S03 E05

Guys, as we launch into the conversation that we're going to have today, one of the crew members had an excellent idea, and that is that we would employ the GoPro and give a shout out to all those who are viewers of Table Talk who are engaged in the study with us. Just a great idea. We got cameras out there. So now we have a camera on the table. On the table, yeah. We can get some close ups of the facial hair and we can pay attention to all the doodliness. There's a lot of facial hair around this table. I'm the only one clean shaven.

Clean shaven. Looking good.

Yeah. If anybody has any opinions out there in Table Talk World about it, let us know. But we're going to launch in to.

That's right, on me. Yeah, yeah. We're gonna launch into a subject that I think is pretty provocative.

Okay.

So I'll just say the question and I think the weight of this idea will immediately be evident. Can those who have never heard the name of Jesus be saved? It's a serious question.

Can those who've never heard the name of Jesus be saved? Okay, I got this in my mind.

There's a foundation. There's a foundation to this. There's something.

Frame it a little bit for us.

Well, Jeffrey.

Are there scriptures that explicitly say that Jesus is the only way?

Well, I think we can start with some passages. One of them is in John 14, which is pretty clear and provocative and challenging. It's where Jesus mentions his promise. And in John 14:6, Jesus says, I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. So he doesn't say I am a way, a truth, a life. I am the way, the truth, the life. That's very.

Except no man.

Yeah, no man comes to the Father except through me. So that kind of sounds like.

What it sounds like. What does it sound like?

It sounds very exclusive that without knowing Jesus you cannot be saved.

Now, some people would ask what it says, though, without. What does it not say?

Without hearing, without knowing, without learning, without.

Well, it says what it says, but it doesn't say. And I know that you were just trying to articulate this view that we're going to say it sounds like.

Exactly.

So maybe. Okay, so that is a text that is used. It would be helpful for me if we just sort of made it very clear that there is a.

To our listeners. And many of our listeners are going to have heard this. Some of our listeners might believe this. And we're going to do our best to Try and dissuade them to believe that. To believe what scripture, what we believe Scripture teaches. And that is the idea that if you don't literally bring your lips, your mouth to say, you know, I accept Jesus as my personal Savior or some equivalent thereof, pray the sinner's prayer, you know, that thing that you are by that, by that lack of act, excluded from even the possibility of salvation. That's the point. Now, what Jesus is saying there in John 14:6 doesn't in any way teach that, in my view. And we'll get to that. But that is a text that is used to say, hey, you want to come to the Father, you have to go through Jesus. Okay, that's true. But does it mean thereby that you have to say, you know, there's some formula, some mantra.

Is it possible to. In other words, an extension of what you're saying. Is it possible to encounter Jesus through different degrees and.

In different ways?

I like the word ways better than.

Degrees ways in different ways, you're not born in Christian America or in Christian Europe. Maybe you're born in a different part of the world. But are there essences? Because he says, here I am the.

Way.

I am the way, the truth and the life. So is it possible to encounter the essence of life in Christ, truth in Christ, without even having heard the name of Jesus?

That's the question.

Let me frame the problem in a way that will maybe even feel a little bit more weighty to those who are out there looking at this subject with us. I read an article a number of years ago by a. A American cartoonist, and he's drawing pictures and captions for funnies in the papers across America, and he was known to be a Christian. And so a journalist interviewed this guy and said, you're a Christian? Yes, I'm a Christian. If you're a Christian, do you believe that Jesus is the only way for people to be saved? He said, yes, I believe that. Then the journalist followed up and said, what about all the people who lived in the thousands of years of human history prior to Jesus coming and never even heard the name of Jesus? Are all of them automatically, by virtue of the unfortunate reality that they were born in that time in history, or they automatically lost? And then the journalist went a step further and said, and there are people in the world today, even after Jesus came as a historical figure for the last 2000 years, who lived in circumstances where they never heard about Jesus. Are all of them automatically thereby lost? And he said, you know, that sounds really hard, but yeah, that's what I believe. I believe that Jesus is the only savior. So it is unfortunate, but people who have never heard the name of Jesus are going to burn in hell forever.

He said it like that.

Yeah. Well, the journalist was asking, what about eternal. The question, I mean, I'm giving my own wording of it.

I got through an eternal torment.

And he said, yeah, they're going to be in hell forever.

That reminds me of I was telling you guys about a story of a guy who goes into an art show and there's a portrait painting of Gandhi and he's presented there at the art show as a hero as.

But it's a Christian art show.

Yeah, it's a Christian thing. And so somebody, presumably a Christian, writes with the marker on the actual picture.

Well, I thought it was on a note that was placed on the picture.

Is that what it was?

It was a sticky note that was placed on the picture.

That sounds probably more accurate. And they wrote down something like, hello, newsflash, he's burning in hell right now.

Yeah, Gandhi.

Gandhi. And the implication was, how could Gandhi.

Be a part of a Christian?

How could Gandhi be saved when he wasn't a professed follower of Jesus? Right. So that's kind of a hard.

Okay, so hardcore conclusion.

It's a serious issue.

I have my own story that's very similar to that. Very similar to that, actually. So I was working as a.

I was working in an adventure sports store. So we were selling rock climbing gear, mountain bikes, snowboards. And this was just prior to my conversion. I was 21 years old. I'm going to be. I give my life to Jesus when I'm 23. So this is two years before my conversion, but I was already at least preliminarily aware of or interested in spiritual things to some degree, at least things of social interest or, you know, political or whatever. And I wasn't an overtly spiritual person, but I was a spiritually sensitive person. That'd be the way I'd say it.

Okay.

Okay.

So I'm working there at this place called PJ's Adventure Sport in Rapid City, South Dakota. And there was a friend of mine who was. I went to high school with, who actually lived just down the street from me, who was a well known Christian in our high school. Great guy. His name was Tim and he was also a bit of a rock climber. In fact, he's the one that got me into rock climbing. So he came in and we would just chat it up every now and then. And he came into the store and I was working. And in the course of the conversation, Tim says to me.

Starts to witness to me, do you know Jesus as your personal savior? To which I say, I don't even know what that means. I had this whole thing when people would say Jesus saves. I would be like, well, from what? That's unclear to me as somebody who didn't have a theological background or a biblical, you know, a real strong biblical foundation. A lot of these platitudes just went off. I was like, what does that mean? So he starts kind of trying to witness to me. And in the course of that conversation, I ask this very question of him. I say, okay, well Tim, here's the problem I have. What about the Buddhists, the Muslims, the people, the irreligious people in the world? Not who don't know, but who've never had a chance to know.

Right.

And his response was exactly as you just said the journalists was. His was, well, then they would be lost. They would be, wow. And I said, but that strikes me as, you know, fantastically unfair. And then I said, and then my follow up question was exactly. That's why I was so, like, really? The journalist said it. Because my question was, do you also believe that those who don't make that verbal specific profession confession that they will go to hell for eternity, like an eternal torment, a conscious torment? And he said, yeah, which by the.

Way, is one of our questions later in this series. Later in the series, will God burn people up forever in hell?

But I didn't know anything about the Bible and at that moment that did not sound right. I just said, well, whatever it is that you believe, it's a guarantee that that belief alone right there precludes me from even the possibility of believing it. Because I couldn't. Now, I wasn't this sophisticated yet in my belief, but this is what I would have been thinking in a visceral, intuitive sense. But now I'll put language on it. I could never love, worship, admire a being that would make a decision like that, that would rule the universe like that. That's arbitrary. That's. I can't do that. And I did do a little pushback, but he was just, he was a stone wall. That's just, that's what the Bible teaches. Back to the thing we talked about yesterday. You know, the Bible says it, therefore, in this sort of authoritative sense rather than a come, let us reason together, let's think this through sense and rather.

Than the narrative of scripture, because what many Christians have trained themselves to do is to focus on a Verse, a sentence, a line. And to build a conceptual framework or a belief on that verse, that sentence.

That line, without looking at the whole.

Jeffrey just gave one. Yeah, I am the way, the truth and the life. No man come to the Father, but by me. There's one of two ways you can look at that verse, though. You can look at it in the narrow context that it's saying. If you don't have an encounter with the historical figure Jesus and speak his name, you can't be saved. Or you could hear Jesus enunciating the fact that in him is embodied the principles and the character and the realities of truth and life. And the way and that people can encounter Jesus prior to him coming 2000 years ago as the historical figure that we know by the name Jesus Christ, Jesus was active prior to his incarnation in the world.

I'd like to look at a verse on that that I really appreciate. I hear that it's found in Daniel, chapter three. And this is going to the Old Testament, but it's also going. So it's going pre Christ, pre incarnation, but it's also going to a non Hebrew person. This is a story that involves a heathen king. And the heathen king, the name of the heathen king is Nebuchadnezzar. Nebuchadnezzar was actually sent by God on a mission to bring his God's people into captivity so they could do some evangelism and reach people with the message, because God loved Nebuchadnezzar and wanted him and others to be saved. And Nebuchadnezzar at this point in the story, in Daniel chapter three, Nebuchadnezzar is doing this little bit of pride thing with God and with his people. He set up an image on this plain of dura, and he's forcing everyone to worship the image on the pain of death. And if they don't worship the image, they die. And Daniel's three friends, the Hebrews, aren't willing to worship that image because they follow God. And so how the narrative goes is the king gets upset with them, heats a furnace seven times hotter, throws them into the furnace, thinking that they're going to be complet consumed because the mighty men of the kingdom have been consumed, just throwing them into the furnace. And then he goes, and as he's going over to the furnace, and we just pick it up right here in verse 25, he asks his counselors, verse 24, he's astonished. And he asks his counselors, didn't we throw three men bound into the furnace. And his counselors answer and say yes. And then he says in verse 25, he says, Daniel, chapter three, he answered. And he said, Lo, I see four men loose walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt. And the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

So there he is.

There's the Son of God right there. Same word that is used, same phrase that is used. There's the Son of God right there. Not only is he there with those three Hebrews, but Nebuchadnezzar, a heathen king, recognizes him. He says, there's the Son of God. In other words, we have an Old Testament figure, a heathen, who recognizes the Son of God. He recognizes Jesus. And I think the reason why he recognizes Jesus is because he knew enough about the true God through Daniel and his friends and the knowledge that they had given to Nebuchadnezzar to recognize him when he was manifest with these three Hebrews. So it's an Old Testament example of the manifestation of Christ.

Now, one of the name of Jesus being mentioned.

Yeah, one other verse that I want to bring up, and that is 1 Corinthians 10:4. You're familiar with that verse. Paul is recounting the history of the Old Testament. He's recounting the history of the wilderness. He's recounting the history of the Jews and as they came out of Egypt. And he says there was a rock that was with them. There was a pillar of fire that was there. And he says that rock that followed them, that rock was Christ. So Christ was manifest. He was available to the Old Testament. He was also seen in types and symbols. We know that. But I just think this is a powerful story.

It's a great story. That's why I was asking the thing about the journalist that seems the journalists, I think, went a step too far there in the story that you were describing, because I don't even think my friend Tim would have said that somebody that was chronologically or historically before the time of Jesus could have never been. I think he would have said subsequent to Jesus coming. That's a ripple now in time. It's a ripple now in history prior to that. I don't know. I'm just guessing. I didn't even think to ask that question. I wish I would have, but that would seem. If Tim's position was absurd, and to me it is, and it's not biblical, then this journalist's position that you just happen to be anachronistically born, you know, wrong time. Sorry. Wrong place. That's beyond absurd.

But in most mainstream Christian thought, there's something called dispensationalism which actually complicates the situation further. And in that view, it's basically believed that, that you can only be saved, New Testament time onward by encountering and confessing the name of Jesus. And those who were saved prior to that were saved in the Old Testament dispensation by keeping the law.

That's probably what my friend Tim would have thought, or something analogous to that.

So still, Jesus is not the universal savior that transcends the testaments, these two periods, these two epochs in human history. And so it's a very muddled theology that doesn't take into consideration.

The mercy and the fairness of God. And it doesn't take into consideration the fact that God has been active throughout all of human history impacting, impacting, impacting people in homes and villages and societies and nations all through history and every single human being.

Go ahead.

If we were to ask a Christian with that belief in the dispensational approach, where Christ is not present both in the before or after Old Testament, New Testament, if we were to ask him, what is the gospel, what would the typical mainstream cliche answer be to that? What is the gospel? Usually it would involve the name of Jesus. Right, right. Jesus came to die for our sins.

It would be something like that.

And the reason I think that's fascinating is because in Galatians, chapter three, Paul says that the Gospel was preached to Abraham.

Yeah, exactly.

If it was preached, the good news was preached to Abraham.

So if the gospel is Jesus dying for sins and that's the avenue to salvation, it says here, Paul, New Testament theology, that that very gospel was preached to Abraham, but the name Jesus wasn't mentioned to Abraham, but the gospel was preached to Abraham, which we're going back to the point.

Is it possible to rub shoulders with.

Salvation with the gospel without the name, the specific name of Jesus? And clearly it is, because in the Old Testament, we're told the gospel was revealed, and that's before Jesus was born in Bethlehem.

You know, there's another point here that I think we need to connect with that you're saying, and that is, in the Bible, names are significant of character. People are named according to the type of person they are or perhaps even the thing they would accomplish. And when you look In Matthew chapter one and verse 21, there's a specific name that is given to Jesus. Or let me say it this way, the Messiah is given us, the name Jesus for a Specific reason. And that is.

You shall call his name Jesus because he will save his people from his sins. Jesus is Jesus because He saves people from sin. And if the gospel includes the world, John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whoever believes in him might not perish but have everlasting life. And Jesus is named Jesus because He saves people from sin. That name is more than just a literal five digit five letter word. That name is significant of his purpose to save the world from sin.

That's right.

I think there's explicit scripture that gets at the last two points that you guys have made and that's John chapter one. And this requires that we get into the text and think about it. But just follow the reasoning here. I'll read the text and then I'll tell you what I think it means and see if you guys think that that's actually here in the text. Notice John chapter one, verse one. It says, in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God. And the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him, nothing was made that was made in him was life. And the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness and the darkness did not comprehend it. That's verses one through five. Now this is interesting. Here is the Gospel of John. It is about to tell the story of who? Jesus.

Jesus.

But in the first five verses, he's not using the name Jesus. He's saying, okay, let me tell you about this one that I'm about to explain.

This is good.

He's the Word, he's the light. And he's been the Word and the light way back, way, way, way back. He's been actively speaking, this is it, into human situations all along through human history. And he's the light. He's been giving enlightenment to people's minds. He's the Word. He's been speaking in people's minds. But the verse 5 is amazing.

Ty, Ty, Ty, hold on. I have to say something. I've never. These texts are just coming alive to me. I mean, I've read them over and over again. I've understood them in broader and broader, deeper senses. But this is the first time I'm seeing it this way.

Really.

This is power. This is. These verses are probably the most profound answer to this question.

Think about it.

The name of Jesus. And then John says, jesus. Let me describe who Jesus is. He's that word that goes all the way Back to the very beginning.

That's who.

Jesus.

No one can be saved. There's no other way than this word that goes all the way. Are you getting in a sense?

So Jesus is in fact the only way. Jesus is, in fact, the only Savior. It's not as if all religious roads and all philosophies lead to heaven. Jesus is the only savior. He's the only way. But Jesus, the only Savior in the only way can be encountered by various different modes of being. One is enlightenment and human conscience. Another is the speaking, the ongoing whispering in human hearts that is distinguishing between right and wrong and longing for something better. But verse five is amazing. This is the part that really just opened this for me. It says, and the light shines in the darkness. And the darkness did not comprehend it. That's very difficult language. I'm reading the new King James version. If you look at other versions and you look at the Greek, this is literally saying this word in this light has been, past tense, shining in the darkness all along. And the darkness, this is how it says it in the Greek. The darkness never extinguished it. The light. The darkness never overcame the light. So this scripture is literally saying Jesus.

Been around all along.

Jesus has been saving people down through human history. The darkness has been trying to steal souls from him. But he continues to speak light into human consciousness. And the darkness.

Has never been able to overcome the light.

And you're going to read verse nine, Right.

And you read verse nine. This is amazing. Verse nine just blows it up.

That was the true light which lights every man that comes into the world. No one's left out. No one's left out.

Including those who've never heard the name of Jesus.

Absolutely. And still he hasn't used the name Jesus.

Right.

He's telling all this background, this backstory to what has been going on prior to the incarnation of Christ and all that backstory. He's describing word and light. And then he comes to verse 14 and says, and then guess what? The Word became flesh and dwelt among us here. He came into the world, the very one who's been actively pursuing human hearts all along, through history. Isn't that just. I just love it, love it, love it, love it. And it makes so much sense now when you read scriptures like Acts, chapter 4, verse 12. There is no name given among men whereby. No other name given among men whereby we must be saved, but the name of Jesus. Jesus is the only Savior. But he's been actively pursuing, and people have been actively encountering him in their hearts and their minds.

No man's been left out. Every man has been lightened.

We're so excited about this that we're forgetting about our break. We have to take a break. We have to take a break and then we'll come right back.

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So we ended on a very exciting note. John chapter one is so powerful in bringing to our attention the fact that Jesus is the word and the light that has been actively pursuing people in their thoughts, in their minds, in their hearts, bringing illumination all through history. The John chapter one concept is also present in two other passages that I want to see what you guys think of now here. It's the word, right?

Yep.

In Deuteronomy, chapter 30. Listen to these words and it'll just click. This is in Deuteronomy, chapter 30, starting with verse 11. This is Moses speaking to the children of Israel. He's been Instructing them and telling them everything from the Ten Commandments to all kinds of teachings. And he says, for this commandment which I command you today is not too mysterious for you, nor is it far off. It is not up in heaven that you should say, who will ascend into heaven for us and bring it. That is this word, this truth down for us that we should hear it. Nor is it beyond the sea that you should say, who will go over the sea for us and bring it. That is this commandment, this word, this truth to us. Who will bring this to us from over, across the sea. But notice this. He says, but verse 14, the Word. The what? The word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart that you may do it. Do you hear what Moses is saying here? He's saying, listen, all this stuff I've been teaching you, all this instruction, it's not mysterious. You just need to pay attention to the word that's been speaking to you even before I began instructing you. You need to pay attention to the word that's been on your own tongue and in your own heart. What does he mean, on your own tongue? Human beings, even apart from the declarations of Scripture, they don't have the Bible before them necessarily, but on their lips, they're holding one another accountable. Why did you just treat me like that? That was inappropriate the way you treated. So the word of truth, it's coming out of us in calling one another to account on issues of mercy and.

Justice to a degree, is written on the conscience.

And he says, and it's in your heart. The Word is in your heart. You don't even go up there, over there to get it. Just pay attention to what God is telling you. Wow.

I have several thoughts that are bubbling over. The first thought is that what you just said there ty is hugely significant when you couple that with the fact that Jesus and Paul said that the summary, the summation, the distillation of the Old Testament is to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Right. That's Galatians. What is it, five or six? And it's Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount. This is the law and the prophets do unto men as you would have them do unto you. So the point that you're saying there is that this isn't some. You have to climb to the top of a mountain or sail across the sea to get, you know, this is in your. This is inside of you. It's intuitive to you.

Yeah.

Now here's the second point. That's bubbling over. Paul quotes that very text in Deuteronomy. And I see you're going to Proverbs in a second, but that text that you were just at in Deuteronomy, Paul quotes in Romans 10.

That's right.

Okay, so I'll just read it. But then it's fascinating where he goes with it. Romans, chapter 10. He says, do not say in your heart. I'm in verse 6. Do not say in your heart who will ascend into heaven. He's quoting Deuteronomy, that is to bring Christ down from above. So now he's saying, that's Christ, not word. He said, that's Christ. He says, or who will descend into the abyss, that is to bring Christ up from the dead. So then he says, but what should you say? The word is the word. He just said, it's Christ. John said it's Christ. Moses is saying it's Christ. That word is near you. It's in your mouth. It's in your heart. This is the word of faith which we're preaching. And then he says in verse nine. And this is a verse that's actually used to teach the exact opposite.

I got to take notes on this.

He says in verse nine that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead forwards, you will be saved.

This is amazing.

That's huge.

Romans 10, beginning in verse 6 down.

To verse 7, Deuteronomy 30.

30.

And the thing that's so big to me there is that Paul tells you what the Word is. He says, that is to bring Christ down from above. That is to bring Christ up from. He says, no, it's right there. It's next to you.

So you wouldn't say there's a contradiction in verse nine. If you confess with your mouth that Jesus.

No, because Paul is writing to people who do historically know the name of Jesus. He's writing to a church in Rome. And in that circumstance, he's saying, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus. But the point is, he's drawing on this idea that God, through Christ, has pervasively been working in the whole of human history. He's the light that lights every man that comes into the world. Now, we should bring this point out. Did the Jews, in a sense, have a special dispensation? Did the Jews, in a sense, have a special. Maybe that's even the wrong word to use. Did they have a privilege? Paul actually says that in Romans. Paul is saying. Because he's basically saying hey, look, circumcision doesn't help you. That's not the thing. So Paul understands. And then he says in chapter three, verse one of Romans, of Romans, Romans chapter three, verse one, he says, well then what advantage then does the Jew have? Or what profit is there in circumcision? And he says, well, mainly this, that they received the word of God. So while it's possible for somebody who does not have the actual exposure of God's works in history, both Old and New Testament, to respond to the sense in their heart, and Paul's going to say that in Romans 2, which I'm sure we'll get there eventually. It's easier if we have the written record of. But that doesn't mean that God can't work in very.

It doesn't mean that he's not working.

And he is working. I mean, we quoted in an earlier presentation that the heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament shows his handiwork. Day unto day utters speech. The word night under night shows forth knowledge.

And even the context of what you're saying, David, is so profound because it's talking in the context about how Christ is the end of all. He's the goal of the law.

I'm spilling all over myself.

Christ is the goal of the law. And then previous to that, he says, what shall we say then verse 30 of Romans chapter 9, that the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of things.

The Gentiles, in other words, the non Jewish peoples.

The non Jewish people. Because the goal, the whole reason why Moses was given the law, was to lead to Jesus Christ. That's the goal of the law. That's what it leads to.

So I said I had two scriptures.

Okay, now that was a big parenthetical statement.

Back to you, okay, two scriptures that correlate with John 1. The first was Deuteronomy. And then you took us forward to Paul in Romans 10. But listen to this, you guys. So if Jesus is the word in chapter one of John, listen to this language from Proverbs. What's happening In Proverbs chapter 4 through chapter 8 is wisdom with a capital W is being personified as if wisdom is a person. Okay, now we think of wisdom as just information and data. But here it's very interesting because in chapter four, the person who's writing this, Solomon, is saying wisdom is crying out in the street. Wisdom is over by the city gate declaring justice through the men who pass sentence on people who commit crimes. Wisdom is heard in the marketplace when you're doing deals with people and you're about to exchange money or for product. Wisdom is actively in wisdom. Wisdom. Wisdom is in. It's in every aspect of life. And then it's interesting, he says of this wisdom, love her and she will keep you. What verse are you in? I'm in verse six and seven. Love her. The latter part. Well, I'll read all of 6 and 7. Do not forsake her. That is wisdom, and she will preserve you. Love her and she will keep you. Wisdom is the principal thing. Therefore, get wisdom, and with all you're getting, get understanding. Now just hold that in your mind and go over to chapter eight. Because we don't have time, of course, to go through all his explanation of wisdom's activities. But then when you come to chapter eight, he says, in verse one, does not Wisdom cry out and understanding lift up her voice. And then in verse three, she cries out at the gate. I mentioned that. And he's just going on in verse seven. For my mouth will speak truth, and wickedness is an abomination to my lips. All this is going on in the human experience. Think of it that way. Okay, then come to verses 35 and 36.

Wisdom is speaking now in the first person. Okay. For whoever finds me, wisdom finds life and obtains favor. That's grace from the Lord. And whoever sins against me, wrongs his own soul. All who hate me, love death. When we come to the New Testament, in 1st Corinthians 1:24, Paul says that Christ is the wisdom of God. He's the very one who is personified here in the Book of Proverbs. Jesus in the New Testament is the source of life. I'm the way, the truth, and the life. But here, wisdom, if you latch onto wisdom, there's life in wisdom. That's not saying that wisdom detached from personhood has salvation. It's saying that all wisdom has its source in the person, that is Christ.

Which we were saying, is it possible to rub into Jesus? And it is, right? Wisdom comes from Christ. So discovering wisdom allows you, in a sense, to rub shoulders with Jesus.

Yeah, but even more than that, First Corinthians, chapter one is saying, for Christ is our wisdom and our righteousness. He is wisdom, wisdom personified in a sense, because it talks about how wisdom here in chapter nine has built her house, et cetera, et cetera. In other words, God is putting himself in this personification of wisdom. I am wisdom. If you love me, you love life.

If you hate me, you hate you love death.

You love death.

I am wisdom. And then Paul says that wisdom that the Old Testament was talking about, that was personifying. Paul says that wisdom was Jesus.

So all those Old Testament verses in.

Proverbs, I'm just building on. What did I say?

Just go to.

We're so excited about this.

We're so excited about this.

Get a doctor, get a doctor, get a doctor.

Lord wants to explain this with clarity. We want to get it. So all those Old Testament verses in.

Proverbs that are talking about wisdom, and we say it's Solomon. No, no, no, it's not Solomon. That's Jesus. That's God speaking right there.

Just as a word on that. Recall that. And we've said this in a previous conversation, but it bears mentioning here that in the beginning was. The word is the Logos. That doesn't just mean. It doesn't mean only a word. It's the same root word from which we get, like biology, right? Or theology or anthropology. The L o G Y part at the end is, for example, biology is the word, or the study about life. Anthropology, the study about man. So look. Knowledge, wisdom. Knowledge, wisdom.

Theology.

That's right.

Knowledge, wisdom of God.

Many believe that. Many scholars believe that John is intentionally here utilizing a Greek idea, a Greek concept to speak to people about. Oh, that thing that pervasive, ubiquitous. That is Jesus. And there's something I wanted to say about the light and the dark. He says two things in John. One, he's the light that lights every man that comes into the world, and he is the Word. Okay, so then just on the most basic level, what is the purpose of light? To dispel darkness. And on the most basic level, what's the purpose of a word? To communicate. So God is dispelling darkness, and he's communicating through the whole of the human experience, through the whole of human history, through. And we have to get to these texts eventually that talk about how he does it through creation. He does it through our innermost conscience. And does he also do it through the Word? Of course he does. Does he do it through Christians? Occasionally?

I think he does get tricked through Christians, in spite of them.

So the point is that there is this pervasive sense in which God is not playing favorites. I love those texts that say that God is not a respecter of persons. He's not setting this nation aside and saying, ah, phooey on all those other nations. This is my. You're the really special ones. In fact, God did not just give truth to the descendants of Abraham. Israel, His Intention of calling Abraham and Israel was to give truth through Abraham and Israel, the descendants of Abraham.

One quick thought. You go for it. But one quick thought.

And that in the book of Daniel, that is another point. Because the first person to get a prophetic dream in Daniel is not Daniel. It's not Daniel's friend.

That's right.

It's Nebuchadnezzar.

It's the pagan. And God is saying, I love that guy. The pagan, mercy, murderous, dictatorial, gets a prophetic vision.

I love in Daniel 4, where he's had this vision, you know, this vision of the tree that's cut and all that. We don't have to get into that. But Daniel says God has done this to basically. Is this Daniel 2 or 4, where he says to show you the thoughts of your heart?

So God was communicating.

God is reaching out to you. Nebuchadnezzar, you're a pagan, idolatrous, murderous king, and God loves you. And the tree's gonna be cut down, but the band is gonna remain. And then we get to Daniel, chapter one. Is it six where Nebuchadnezzar writes the chapter?

Is that five or four?

That's four. That's four. That's four dot where he is saying, I extol the most High.

Poor Geoffrey over there. He wants to make a whole.

There's a heathen author in the Old Testament. There's a heathen author of scripture in the Old Testament.

Many people don't know that it's Nebuchadnezzar.

Well, most people don't know that chapter four was written by Nebuchadnezzar. Right. That came as a shock to me.

Okay, bring it.

I need to go to Acts chapter 17, because I think it wraps everything we've been saying. This is where Paul goes to Athens, and he.

The intellectual capital of the world.

He's in the hub of. You mentioned Greek how John purposely uses his Greek idea. But in Acts 17, Paul is in Athens, the Mecca of this Greek philosophy. And as he's there.

He'S just overwhelmed by how people are just searching and searching and trying to arrive at this thing. We've been talking about the Logos, and.

Well, okay, keep going. Talk faster, though, because I've seen that.

Hurry, hurry, hurry.

In Acts 17, I'm perfectly gonna go slow mo now.

Oh, man, that's gonna kill me.

But in verse 23, he says that he finds an inscription to the unknown God, which I think we should dwell on that. But in verse 26, he said, we're gonna encounter this in Creation.

And how God.

Blah blah blah, verse 26, he has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth and has determined their pre appointed times and the boundaries of their dwelling. So there's time there and there's geography. So God is in the business of positioning people at the right time in history and in the right places for the purpose of what we would ask Paul.

Providential orchestration.

That's right. And the purpose is verse 27, so that God is doing this, so that for the purpose that they should seek the Lord in the hope that they might grope for him and find him. And I want to just say a few things here.

Grope for him.

Take your time.

This idea of groping for God, we've been on light and darkness, right? I'm imagining entering into my house. When I get home at night, it's dark and I'm in my room and I'm groping around trying to find my way to the light switch, right? So they're groping around trying to find him and then it says that they might find him. I'm still in verse 27, though. He is not far from each one of us to your John, chapter one. Fast forward the last thing I'll say, then you guys can just get out of your cage in verse 30.

We got to take a break.

Truly, the times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent. So it seems to me that that's a powerful passage. It shows and affirms everything we've been laying down that God has been working from day one. It's not just the manifestation of Jesus in Bethlehem and onward, but that God has been in the business of interacting with humanity throughout different time eras and throughout different locations for the simple purpose of making him as the Logos, as the Word, as the light accessible to people. And people in their ignorance have been rubbing shoulders with Jesus and he's accepted that. But then he says God winks at that ignorance. But his ultimate goal is to bring.

Them one step further, to encounter his name.

And he says that he is not far from any one of you in Acts 17. That's the very point that Paul was making, the very point that Moses was making. You don't have to ascend into the heavens to bring it down. You don't have to sail across the sea to get it's accessible. It's right there.

Yeah, he's near.

One other thing though, and Jeffrey missed this verse, but it's verse 25 by the way.

We're two minutes over for the break, but go and finish this one point. We'll take the break.

Well, verse 25 says that in him we have life and breath in all things. And Jeffrey mentioned, he's saying. Jeffrey's saying, he's suggesting these verses show us that God has been active through all time with all different people. And he says in him we have life and breath in all things. You just go back to Daniel chapter five.

This time this guy cannot stay away from Daniel.

Daniel, chapter five.

This is coming to the end of the the reign of Babylon, okay? The king here, Belshazzar, is being confronted by a dream. Not a dream, but a hand that has written this. And Daniel comes in to interpret it. And this is what Daniel says to him. Daniel says to him, you know the history of your grandfather Nebuchadnezzar. You haven't humbled yourself. You've lifted up yourself against the Lord of heaven. You've brought the vessels of his house before you. You've eaten your lords and wives and.

Have drunk out of them.

You praise the gods of silver and gold, the gods of stone that see not nor hear not. And then he says this. But the God in whose hand thy breath is and whose are all thy ways, thou hast not glorified. And in the context of that, he says, even though you knew this, Jeffrey, you said, you know, people have been ignorant, but some people have not been ignorant. God has manifest himself to heathen kings and told them, I've given you life and breath in all things. And the entire court of Babylon is hearing this. The entire Medo Persian empire hears about this God. Everyone hears about this God.

We don't want to take a break, but we have to take a break.

It's painful.

It's painful and we'll come right back. So just push the pause button.

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So you all know that something really literally exciting happened in the break.

What?

I don't know what you're talking about.

So, just so our viewers know, we got. We were getting the program going, and we got about two minutes into it, and this light that's above us went blue, and then it went boom. I thought it was the second coming.

You had the craziest looking.

I think something.

I think you were making such a powerful point that it emitted enough energy to blow the ball.

It just blew the ball. Well, somewhere on our Instagram or on our website or something, we'll put up my face. Because it was like, what has happened?

Boom.

It was like the end of the world was coming.

It was end of the world stuff.

So what was the point?

Okay, so here's the point. So Geoffrey left us off in Acts 17. What I love about Acts 17 is not just the fact that the word is near and he's close and you can grope. And I like to say that if you can grope and find something, it can't be difficult to find.

It can't be far. It can't.

Like you put somebody in a totally dark room and say, okay, there is a dime in that room. Find it. Well, that's going to be a tall order to grope and find a dime in a perfectly pitch dark room. But if you say, okay, find the wall. Okay, you can grow up and find the wall. So the fact that Paul uses that imagery says that it's. And his point is, it's not far from you, right? Which was Moses point. You don't have to sail. You don't have to ascend. Okay, so what I love is that Paul uses points of connectivity with the culture that he's in. Paul was the master of contextualization. So Paul says, some of your own poets have said to the Athenian philosophers, in Acts 17, he says, your own sculpture to the unknown God in all things. I perceive that you are very religious. So he's drawing points of connectivity. He's trying to find those redeemable elements in their culture. And even if they're not perfectly redeemable, he grabs them, twists them, and forces them into the gospel. He's like, this is pointing to Jesus. This is pointing to the word. This is pointing to the light. Okay?

Every relic of truth is eventually pointing to the same direction.

All truth is God's truth.

Now, that's the point.

Regardless of where it's found.

All truth is God's truth. All beauty is God's beauty. Now Check this out. Right now at my local church that I pastor, the Kingscliff Seventh Adventist Church, just want to give a shout out to my people. Kingscliff. We're preaching right now through the Book of Acts. And we did that at our Light Bearers convocation a couple years ago. Well, I just recently preached before I came here on Acts 12, 13 and 14. And in Acts 13, chapter 13, follow this. Paul here is the master of contextualization and building bridges to communicate the gospel. He says if by any means that I might draw or direct somebody's attention to Jesus, he was so passionate to the Jew, I become a Jew to the Greek as a Greek to those as under the laws. Under the laws. Without the laws.

Without the law.

So In Acts, chapter 13, Paul goes into the synagogue. This was his custom. He's in Antioch. He goes into the synagogue. And even though there's about 30 speeches recorded in the Book of Acts, most of. Well, I think about 12 of which were Paul. This is the only speech or sermon that Luke records Paul as speaking in a synagogue. This is it. And just take a guess without looking at the text. What do you think? He's in a synagogue. He's speaking to Jews, Jewish context. He himself is a Jew. How do you think he tells the gospel story?

What words is he going to use? What people is he going to talk about?

Exactly. He says, Israel, Israel, Israel, Israel. Abraham. Abraham. Men of Israel. Israel. The whole thing is built around Abraham and Israel. Okay? He then travels from Antioch to the south and the east, and he comes to three cities. He comes to Iconium, Lystra and Derbe. And this is the place you'll remember when he comes into Lystra, where they say, oh, these are the gods that have come down among us. Now, Paul doesn't go into the synagogue in Lystra. Guess why there isn't one. There's a temple of Zeus in Lystra. So he begins to preach. This man is healed, and the people are like, whoa, the gods have come down to us. Now, this is contextualization. That's a bit too far right. Paul's not going to pretend like he's Zeus. He's not going to pretend like Barnabas is Hermes or Mercury. Now, this is amazing. I'm in verse 13. Then the priest of Zeus, whose temple was in front of their city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates, intending to sacrifice to the multitudes. But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this, they tore their clothes and ran out among the multitude, crying out, in other words, just Serendipitously, there's a sacrifice, a garland, sacrifice. Where are you all decorated? I'm in Acts 14:13 that just happens to be going by. And the priests of the city come out and say, oh, we'll offer this sacrifice to these gods that have just come down. Because this guy was just healed. Paul runs into the midst, in an act of very Jewish symbolism, tears his clothes, right? This is an abomination. Verse 15. Now watch this. Men. Why are you doing these things? Why also we are also men with the same nature as you notice connectivity. And we preach to you that you should turn from these useless things to the living God. Now watch where he starts speaking. Not to Jews, not in a synagogue, not to people who understand his religious context. Useless things to the living God who made the heaven, the earth, the sea, and all the things that are in them. Where does he start? He starts at creation. Now look at this. Who in bygone generations allowed all nations to walk in their own ways. Nevertheless, he did not leave himself without witness. And that he did good. How did he do good to us? He. This.

He.

This is awesome. He gave us rain from heaven, fruitful in our seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness. And look at this. They loved what he was saying. And with these things, they could scarcely restrain the multitude from sacrificing to them. Now, our point is huge. When Paul speaks of the Athenian philosophers, what does he say? Greek culture, Greek culture, Greek culture. God is trying to get even the Greeks attention. When he goes into a Jewish synagogue, what does he say? Abraham Israel. Abraham Israel. When he's even in a pagan society that's getting it all wrong, trying to worship him. He's like, no, no, no, no. Where does he direct them? He directs them to creation. He directs them to the rain, to the fruitful fields, to the food that fills our. Fills our bellies. Paul didn't come with a patently Jewish message and try to force the culture of Judaism into.

You see what I'm saying? And we need to be so careful. We don't do that. What do we want to do? We want to say, sit in buildings with pews that have steeples and a man in a suit with a tie standing behind a pulpit singing, onward Christian soldiers and now you're saved. Not that there's anything wrong with any of that. But God didn't call us to make Westerners out of people. He didn't call us to turn people into our culture. He told us, point people to the Messiah that's been speaking to them. In their culture, in their heart, in their family, in their life, the whole time.

Powerful. Love it, David.

Beautiful. I'm just on fire about it.

But right in the context of Acts and the story that's unfolding here, if you just back up. I don't know if you guys have noticed this scripture. It just came to me a few minutes ago. Back in chapter 10, Peter is talking and he, of course, is preaching. Christ Jesus is the Savior of the world, and he's going on and on and on, but then he throws this curveball. Peter opened his mouth. Chapter 10, verse 34. Peter opened his mouth and he said, in truth, I perceive that God shows no partiality.

That's right.

Now, this is interesting. God shows no partiality. Verse 35. But in every nation, whoever fears him and works righteousness is accepted by him.

That's it.

This is very clear that he's saying right now, in this moment, I'm preaching Jesus to you. And the gospel that we're preaching about, Jesus is going to all nations. It's going to the Gentiles. But Peter says, I'm here to tell you that all along God is accepting anybody in any nation. Who responds. Yeah. Who fears God or reverences. God is responsible and who does what's right and does what's right. And it's just astounding.

Not only that, but what's really interesting to me is there was a seed that was sown. David, when you were sharing that, there was a seed sown. And it took me back to a book in the Old Testament, and it's the book of Daniel.

Daniel was it.

Surprise, surprise.

I don't think there's any other book in his Bible.

It's just there's like the New Testament and then the Old Testament is in the book.

I think these guys like Daniel.

But here's the interesting thing. The seed you sow that was sown when you were talking, was Paul contextualized. He didn't speak to the Gentiles about the things that he used with the Jews, Abraham, Jacob, Isaac. He didn't speak to the Jews about things he talked with no creation. He contextualized. Well, God did the same thing in the book of Daniel. So when God sends his men to evangelize in Babylon, what does God use as a tool to reach them in evangelism?

What is it that he uses to communicate?

Oh, he uses a statue.

Yeah, but what does the statue represent?

Nations.

The history of nations. Okay, got it.

So he gives Nebuchadnezzar this revelation of his history. Nebuchadnezzar.

This is you.

This is your history.

He's speaking his language.

He's speaking his language.

And he's using what the Jews would regard as an idol.

But God is using. Speak to him. Yes, he's using his.

I'm thinking, because you were talking about this in relation to evangelism and how we need to contextualize. I was just thinking, this is amazing. This is so consistent. And the other that's really interesting, I think, in the context of what we're saying here, is that if you read Joel Chapter two carefully, you'll understand that it's a prediction of the very thing that Nebuchadnezzar accomplished. And In Joel chapter 2, God describes Nebuchadnezzar and his men as his army. He says, this is my army. In other words, God will actually use Gentile people to accomplish his purpose. God will give Gentile people dreams. God will. He's no respecter of persons. This is what Titus is bringing out. He's no respecter of persons. So this idea that there's no other name under heaven, this. That only people who knew this certain name is completely bankrupt.

It goes against the tenor of Scripture.

Yeah, the weight, the tenor, the evidence in scripture is overwhelmingly taking us in.

A different direction, I'll say very quickly. And some might think that this idea would diminish the uniqueness and the potency and the special, beautiful, wonderful, peerless thing that is Jesus Christ. On the contrary, it magnifies it so that it's not just this little formulaic, this almost mantra secret recipe that you say, and then it's like, okay, you're good.

Yeah, Jesus is not a lucky charm.

He's not.

That's a magic name.

A magic name. It's not words that you speak and something happens. Jesus embodies the principles of grace and truth by which salvation comes to a human being. And. And he's been approaching people all through history. That's what we're realizing.

There will be people. We mentioned in the break yesterday a book that I've read. I think Ty's read it as well. Maybe you guys have. By Don Richardson called Eternity in Their Hearts. And he basically documents where. There are instances of. Where missionaries have arrived to cultures that had no exposure, previous exposure to Christ or the message of Christ. And yet they had redemptive gospel elements in. In their culture. And he basically is saying, eternity in their heart. Eternity in their heart. Eternity in their heart. What's that? Ecclesiastes 7?

Or is that Ecclesiastes 3, chapter 3, verse 5.

The idea that God has placed a longing, a sense of otherness, of out thereness, of truth, of grace, of egalitarianism, treating others as you yourself would want to be treated. He's placed that in everyone. And he is reaching, longing, hoping that anyone will respond to the spark of interest. There will be people who will walk up to Jesus in the courts of heaven and introduce themselves. Hi, I'm Tom. And you are?

I'm Jesus.

I got a story to tell you.

Yeah, that's exactly what we see in Zechariah, chapter 13 and verse 6. This is a prophecy of people. I mean, try to imagine this. People who will ask the question, what are these wounds in your hands? Now think about that for a minute.

Wow.

You and I, we get into the kingdom, into heaven, let's say. I'm not gonna ask Jesus, why do you have scars on your hands? Why? Because I know that story. I live at a time in history. My experience unfolded in such a way that I encountered Jesus by name and the story that his life was in the text, right? So I know why he has scars in his hands. But some people would actually ask, why do you have scars on your hands? And the implication is that they will be meeting Jesus by the name Jesus for the very first time. And he's saying, well, I'm Jesus. I'm your eternal Savior.

Exactly.

You saved me. Well, how did you save me? Well, do you remember when. And you were thinking and you were feeling, and then you were regretful, and then you changed your course. Well, later people will call that repentance. They have some theological language they apply to this. But you were turning in your heart. You remember all. Yeah, I remember. I remember feeling dissatisfied.

You were groping.

Yeah, I was groping. I wish we had more. And then Jesus says, that was me. That was me. The wordless word, the whispering in your heart, that was me. The conviction you were sensing, that was me. That was you. That was me. I'm your savior. You're here because you responded to my overture to you. I took the initiative, and on some level of your heart, you said yes to me.

And I love that, by the way. And I can even sense that in that fictitious scenario there, that imaginative scenario there, that they would say, you know, I was never quite comfortable with the way the world operated. There was injustice and oppression, and you mean to tell me you're the one. I'm the one. Here's the story.

Because there is, for many of us, this world, many in the world, not just Christians. This world fits like a garment that's not. It doesn't fit right sometimes it's broken. This world isn't our home.

We've realized in this time together that Jesus is the only savior.

Yes.

But we've discovered that he has been active, I would even say aggressive, all through history, in every time, in every nation, in every culture, pursuing people and giving them an opportunity to know Him.

Hallelujah.

Amen.

Sa.