Taking a Stand: When and How to Confront Someone's Addictive Behavior

Not everything needs to be talked about. In fact, when you have an addicted loved one, the majority of the thoughts that you have, the feelings that you have, the things that you observe, really don't need to be communicated. And a lot of times, if you communicate these things, it makes it worse. And I get questions about this all the time. In fact, we've gotten several questions about this this week. People will sort of comment or in their strategy sessions, they'll say, I noticed this. Should I say something? It's always, should I say something? Can I say something? How should I say it? So that's what we're going to cover in today's video. And I've got some really great, very practical examples for you to talk about. We want to look at, when do you say something? When do you not say something? And if you are going to say something, how should you say it to get the best possible effect from it? If I could only teach you one thing about this rule about figuring out, should I say something or not? You've got to stop and imagine yourself in your head saying this, whatever it is you want to say to the person. And then imagine how they're going to respond back. You probably know, because you know them well enough, imagine what they're going to think in their head and what kind of effect it's going to have on the situation. Because anytime I have a client or anybody that's telling me, hey, here's what I'm thinking, should I say it? Should I say something to the person? I literally go through the scenario in my head. I stop for a minute, I play it through. In recovery, there's an old saying called playing the tape. And it's almost like I can visualize it happening in my head. And if I'm visualizing it happened in my head and I can't find any good outcome. Like, I play all the different scenarios, and none of those scenarios end in, like, some kind of good outcome. Then I'm like, no, you shouldn't say it as far as being strategic. Because you guys know on this channel, what we talk about is being strategic. It's about being five steps ahead of addiction. Yesterday in our Members only live call, someone asked a really great question about five steps ahead of addiction. They were saying, can you give me an example of what you mean by that? And I thought that was actually a pretty good question. So I want to talk about that here and then give you some of these strategies about what to say, what not to say, and how to say it so that you can Stay five steps ahead. But basically, five steps ahead means instead of fighting about whatever's happening right now and, like, literally arguing about every single thing, calling out every single thing you want to think about in general, where are we at in this process? Am I dealing with someone in denial? Am I dealing with someone who's contemplating making a change? Am I dealing with someone who's really angry or stuck? Am I dealing with someone who's, like, brand new to sobriety? Think about where you're at right now and think about where you want to be. And you got to kind of keep that goal in mind so you know what you're trying to do. Most people want to, like, skip all the steps, and that's. And that's the big thing inside about why they want to say something all the time. Because they're wanting to, like, speed it along, and they want the person to just figure it out right now and get it. So they're just like, let me just give you the answer. Now, sometimes with clients, I'll say, let me just give you the answer. And I say it kind of funny most of the time. It's usually, like, when I'm talking to guys about the results, I'm like, let me just give you the answer, right? Cheat sheet. Here's what you say to your wife, but it doesn't work so well when it comes to trying to get someone out of denial or make steps towards change. You can help lead them there, but you can't just speed it along by giving it to them. Every time you do that, you're slowing it down. So when you're trying to be five steps ahead, you want to think what's gonna get us to that next step. You want to be almost, like, imagining yourself down the road from where they're at right now and waiting for them there instead of engaging in this ongoing conflict, this power struggle thing in the here and now everyday activities. So let's take a look at some of those, like, everyday kind of situations that make you really, really, really want to say something. And I want to, like, confess and tell you it's hard not to say something I don't want you guys to say. Like, just don't say it. And that's what Amber said. It's hard. It's hard for me not to say something. My kid tell him to brush his teeth 30 times or tell him to clean his room up, or it's just. And maybe. Maybe it's more of a woman thing. I don't know. But we want to remind and we want to nag and we want to tell them and we want to push them along, but it just doesn't work. So the most common times when people really want to say something is like, if you find out maybe that your loved ones had a relapse and you know that they haven't told you yet, or that they're denying it, or that they're trying to act like it hasn't happened, you're going to have that strong, urgent side to want to call it out. I know what you did. Or if you find out that they're sneak drinking or sneak using or you found their stash or whatever it was, you're going to want to call it out. Another one that's really hard for people to understand why I say don't always call it out is when someone's lying to you. Like, you don't always have to call out when someone is lying to you. There are times when that's helpful and there are times when that's not helpful. That's one of those situations where you have to go in your head and you have to play out the different scenarios and possible outcomes and you got to think to yourself, does this get me closer to where I want to be? It's all about the strategy. Another thing that family members want to call out a lot is like, when someone's intoxicated or drunk or high or whatever it is. And then you want to say, like, I know you've been drinking, or I know you're high or this or that. And then even it could be so obvious. They could literally be like, fall down drunk and you're calling out and they're going to, like, deny it. That's another reason why not to call it out, because then they're going to deny it and it's going to make you about 4,000 times madder. And then you're going to say all those other things that you've been trying not to say on the list here. And you're going to say a whole bunch of things that you don't need to say. And that's going to take you backwards in your goal towards wherever you're trying to get, whether it's out of denial. Talk to a counselor, go to treatment, stay sober 30 days, whatever that next step is for you. It's going to take you backwards. Now, there are some times when you should say something. We're going to talk about those in just a second. But I do want to bring this up. I saw a couple of comments recently where people Put on my videos. They said something like, I'm tired of being the nice guy. I've had it, I'm done, and I'm out. And actually, when I read those comments, I'm like, I get. Doesn't even make me upset or defensive. There's never a time when in my mind where I'm like, thinking, you shouldn't detach, you shouldn't back up, you shouldn't leave a situation. There are plenty of times when you absolutely should do that. So I like to remind you guys every now and then, even though I'm giving you these tactics, it doesn't mean I'm saying that you should stay. If it's a bad situation for you, if it's a bad situation and you need to get out, do that. There's several videos on this channel that talk about how to make that decision. I think one of them is called, like, four Reasons to Walk Away. There's a couple more. You can take a look at those and that will help you with that decision making. But if you are tired of being the good guy, I mean, the bad guy, and you want out, by all means, get out. These are the strategies that I want you to use if that's. If what you're trying to do is get this person to move towards change. So just because you can doesn't mean you should. So please hear me. I'm not telling you you have to stay, you have to be walked all over, you have to be treated badly. I'm just telling you the strategies that work. Now, here's what you should say. Something about what you can call out. And you have to be careful about this. So listen closely. You can call out, like, some kind of problematic or negative behavior that's maybe like a result of the substance use or the addiction. For example, if your loved one gets really intoxicated and they say really mean things, you can say. Don't say, you know, anything about the drinking. Just say, hey, you said some really mean things to me last night. Because they know it's because of the drinking, you want to let them connect that dot. And that actually makes them feel more guilty, actually, because they know the truth. But if you try to bypass letting them connect that dot, it'll have the reverse effect. It'll make them resentful. Or if they, you know, sort of like ghosted you or. Or didn't answer the calls or skipped out when they were supposed to be at a function. If you want to say something, you can say, hey, I was really disappointed that you didn't show up at XYZ or I thought this was going to happen. Let them connect the dot between the thing and the substance use. But if you know something's important to them or that, like, it's a value of theirs, or they're behaving in some kind of way that they wouldn't want to behave like that, like, like normally, that just would not be in their character. You can the behavior, but do it indirectly. Let them connect the dot. Now, other things that you definitely do need to say, and this is probably the most important thing I'm going to tell you today, is you need to say every time you say something positive that works. And I know you know this, but I have to remind you because I have to remind myself, right? It. We all know positive reinforcement works better than the negative reinforcement as far as getting somebody to move along strategically, but we forget sometimes to call out the good things. And not only is it the nicer way to interact with someone just in general, but what happens when you can't acknowledge somebody's good qualities is it makes you lose all credibility. So, you guys know, in the practice, I usually see the person that has the addiction problem, and one of the things that keeps people stuck is. And they stop listening to you is because they feel like, you know, they do all these other great things, but all you ever talk about is they're drinking, they're using, they're looking at their phone or whatever it is. And you never acknowledge, you know, that they're a good provider or that they're good with the kids or that they got their schoolwork done or whatever it is. So one of the best ways to build credibility quickly is to see what people do right. That helps them trust you. It helps them like you, and it helps give them the impression that you really do see them, like, for real. And it has to be genuine. And the more, like, specific you can make it, the better. You know, you can always say, like, good job, which isn't harmful in any way. But you could say if you say more specifically, hey, something like, hey, that was super helpful, or I really liked it when, or I thought that was really awesome when this happened, or, oh, my gosh, that took a lot of courage. If you can put that positive reinforcement in place, they're going to want to come towards you. They're going to care what you think more. And once you have that credibility put in place, then if you say something like, we just talked about, like, you have to call out a behavior. Like, I was really disappointed when And X, Y or Z, you know, didn't happen or did happen or didn't happen the way it was supposed to happen. They're going to care if they feel like you've just been critical and mean and nagging and whatever, and you don't get them. You can say those things all day long and they don't care. They don't care if you're disappointed. In fact, they might do it just to disappoint you because they're trying to get back at you in some kind of like passive aggressive way. So 90% of the time, the things don't need to be said. You don't have to always express your feelings. There's a video on this channel called don't express your feelings to someone who has an addiction. It's going to backfire on you. If you haven't seen that, you need to watch it. Because a lot of times it's like, if they just knew how I really feel, if they just knew how much they were hurting me, they would stop. But that's typically not the case. It's especially not the case if they don't have very positive feelings towards you when that happens. Because they dismiss what you think because you don't have any credibility, because you don't get it. You don't understand them. You just don't even know what you're talking about. And they don't care if you're upset. So make sure you think through what do I want to say and what do I don't want to say? Your words are very, very powerful. And these words have an effect to pull someone along in the right direction or push someone away in the. In the direction you don't want them to go in. No, you can't control someone else, but you can influence them. You, you can bring out their good behaviors, the good side, or you can bring out the bad side of them. Now, as always, if somebody's doing something that's dangerous, if somebody's yelling, threatening, cursing you out, stealing from you, beating you up, for gosh sakes, do something about it. This is not me telling you to be like, walked all over. But in that case, I still don't even know. You need to say something about it. Just leave. You don't need to talk to them because it's like, I want to talk to you to make you understand why I'm doing this, to make you get it. And it just rarely ever works. So most of the time, don't say something. Your whole job as a family member is Just going to feel like biting your lip. That's what it feels like. Don't worry, your lip will get numb and you'll be all right because you're going to bite it so much, you're going to be holding it in. If it helps you. When you're having that urge and you're just, like, not saying it and you really want to say it, that's what it's going to feel like. Or what it does feel like when they're resisting the urge to engage in their addictive behavior. So think of it as role modeling if you want to think of it as you're getting a little touch of what it feels like. Because it's just a resisting, right? And it's hard to resist those urges. And that's why I say it's like, pretty much the same. The other thing that you don't have to say, and Kim and Campbell talk about this a lot. They're really good about this, is you don't have to say your boundaries so many times. We think it's almost like, well, we think, okay, this is my boundary. I've decided this was my boundary. Should be. I've watched all the healthy boundaries videos. And now you think you have to, like, tell this person what your boundaries are almost like. I think the reason we did that, because it feels like we're, like, giving fair warning, maybe, and we feel like it's unfair for us not to give fair warning. But the fair warning isn't ever helpful. It only makes someone defensive. Remember, boundaries are for you. And in most cases, if you're doing this right, the boundaries you're setting for yourself are pretty big safety, like, have to happen boundaries. And they sort of go without saying, to be honest. Right. Like, you don't have to say, you can't hit me. That should be an obvious. You don't need to communicate it. Right. You don't have to say these boundaries necessarily. You don't have to say, if you use one more time, I'm going to leave you. In fact, I really encourage you not to put any, what I call, like, no tolerance rules in place. Because most of the time when you put a no tolerance rule in place, what you're trying to do is you're trying to be like, I'm really serious. I mean it this time. Like, don't even try me. Don't mess with me, because I mean it. And you think when you lay it out there and you're super serious about it, like, they're going to get it. And then they're not going to cross that boundary. They're going to cross that boundary because they can't help it because they're addicted. Or they might cross it on purpose just to see, just to like power struggle with you or whatever, but they're going to cross it. So when you put those no tolerance ones out there, you set yourself up because most of the time you think, well, they're never going to do that. Like the common ones we hear all the time are like, if I find drugs in this house, you're kicked out. I'm not saying you can't have that as a boundary, especially if you have like young kids in the house. And it really is like a safety issue. I'm just saying you don't have to communicate it, right? Because it should be pretty obvious those things we want to communicate are pretty obvious. That's why we don't need to communicate them. They know already. And when you say if this happens one time, absolutely no matter what, then this is the result. And it's usually like some kind of big result, like you're getting kicked out, you can't stay here, you got to go back to treatment, whatever. Then you back yourself into a corner because now you've done laid down the law and you feel like you absolutely have to like back it up because you done said it. I call it the big talk. And then you got to back up the big talk when maybe you're not really ready to back up the big talk. And when you put those big no tolerance rules out there, you're a lot more likely to get more lying because you put the person not saying, I guess I shouldn't say it's your father line. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying like they're more likely to lie to you if they know one slip up is going to result in like I'm going to call your probation officer or something like that. There's not going to tell you the truth, like no one would. So. And that's going to make you mad too, because you know, the thing that makes you maddest is the lying to you. You know, it is like that for all of us, right? It's the lying. When you can create a more. Supportive, encouraging space, they're more likely to tell you the truth and they're more likely to figure out the problem faster because I know I say this all the time, but usually they know it on some level deep down inside, but they're just so busy fighting with you about it. That you're slowing down the process. And we see this every day. And it just works. It works almost like every time. If you will do these steps, your person's chances of getting better are actually pretty good. Now, I don't want you to take that on as like it's your responsibility to make them get sober or not get sober. But regardless of whether they get sober or not, if you're doing what I'm telling you today, you're gonna walk away from the situation feeling good, because you're gonna feel solid in your heart, that you did every single thing possible, that you acted with kindness, that you were 20,000 miles more than fair. Because the things I'm telling you to do are way beyond what's fair. Like, way more fair than. Than should be. Which means in the end, no matter what, you are going to feel okay in your heart, because that's just how we should act, right? This just good manners. This just good behavior. There's nothing I'm telling you in here that's, like, specific only to addiction. All of these things always work. And when you're thinking of calling someone out, Bri and I were talking about this yesterday. I said it's like calling someone out about their weight, right? Like, maybe your friend has gained some pounds or whatever. In what universe is that ever helpful unless they've told you to call them out? And even then, I still don't even know if that's a good thing to do. You better think about it, because the person probably knows that. And when you say something, it's going to make them defensive. Think about some problem you have in your life that you keep doing over and over and over. We all have something, right? Maybe it's spending. Maybe it's eating sweets. Maybe it's being critical. Maybe it's like watching too much Netflix. Whatever it is, you've got some problem, and even when you know it. But if someone calls you out, it's going to make you defensive. It's like a reflex. You can't. You almost can't help it. Sometimes you can think it through and get undefensive later. But even that's, like, kind of hard. So think about yourself. Think about your own flaws, and think about, would it really be helpful for someone to call you out directly about that? In most cases, that's a no. All right, for those of you who are watching live, now is a really good time, if you haven't done it already, to put your questions up here. And Bre is behind the scenes. She's Backstage over there. And she's going to pop them up here on the screen. She's going to pick some questions. And bre, if you see any like, related to this definite, like this topic, say something or not say something. Let's give those priority. But we will take any of the questions. And I do see that there's a super sticker. I want to say thank you to the person put the super sticker up here. But there's no profile name. All right. KBC says a homeless addict who does not want to confront because he's afraid of facing reality. I have to support and provide shelter. Cannot get treatment because of lack of resources. Is there anything can be done? Okay. Hey, Bri, will you put that first part back up there? There were several pieces. I'm just sort of processing that for a second. So somebody you care about is homeless, they're an addict, and they're not facing the reality of the situation. I have tried to provide support and shelter but can't get them into treatment. When you say lack of resources, I mean, yeah, it's definitely harder when someone doesn't have like insurance or they don't have, you know, they cannot just afford to pay for these really expensive treatment centers. And some of them are very, very expensive. So I hear what you're saying. But almost everywhere, at least in the United States, in any big city, there's going to be some state ran drug and alcohol treatment facility or some church ran or some united way ran treatment organ. There are organizations out there that work with people who don't have resources. Now it may feel like there's no resources because your person may say, I'm not going there, but I'm not going there is different than there are no resources. There are some resources. A lot of those resources are hard resources because a lot of those resources, they don't put up with a bunch of crap, you know, so if you go in there with a bad attitude, if you pulling shenanigans and all that, they're not going to tolerate you. They're. They're more hardcore about the rules and stuff like that usually. So that is a somewhat of a drawback. But there's almost always some resources out there. The question is, is whether or not your loved one or that person will agree to accept those resources. Teresa says, how do I tell the difference between putting myself in the bad guy roll and poking the bear? Last night I saw he was hiding a bottle behind the mail in the desk. Do I call out the weird think about it like this. If you caught me sneaking a Reese's cup out of the pantry late at night. Do you think it would be helpful to call me out? Probably not. And that could definitely happen, right? So it's just not helpful. The thing that you gotta ask yourself, why do you want to call them out? What possible responses are there? The first response is almost always going to be, nuh. Some version of it didn't happen, you're crazy. Or that's old, you know, some lie, Just some bold, base lies. What you're going to get at first, and then if the conversation goes on further, what you're going to get is then they're going to switch it and turn it on to you. So you're going to get some version of, like, gaslighting, or they're going to get some version of, well, you're just a critical, nagging control freak. And if you weren't like that, I wouldn't have to hide it. They're going to turn it on you. So. So imagine this conversation where you say, dude, I saw you put that bottle in the desk behind the paperwork. Is that going to come out good in any way? Just ask yourself that. And maybe it would. If you know this person and you know them so well that maybe they want you to call them out or something like that, then okay. But usually not. Call out the good things, compliment them. So the house is crumbling around me, and I say, wow, look, the little vase didn't break. Hard to feel genuine about that. Feels like I'm living in denial. And I know it does feel like that. It feels like, why am I? It feels like you're letting these things happen. But you got to ask yourself, what could I do to stop it? The only thing you can do to stop it is to throw this person out or for you to leave. And both of those responses are okay. But if you're not ready to do that by calling out like, hey, thank you for dusting the little vase up there on the mat or whatever it is, guess what? They'll dust two vases tomorrow. And it feels small. But gradually you're going to see these changes. Changes in their attitude, changes in their behavior. And those are other good things. You can call out when I say call out. The positive doesn't even have to be specific behaviors. It can be specific thought processes. It can be, hey, that was really sweet of you, or, you were so kind the other day to those people, or, you know, that that was really fair decision that you made or whatever. So calling out their thinking process is going to get you more good thinking process. It feels strange, but it grows. These are little seeds that you're watering and that you're planting and they grow. If you do it today, tomorrow you'll have two. And if you water those the next day you might have four. You can build someone in the right direction, or at least trying is your best bet. If you've done it and it just doesn't work and they're. It's. It's crazy. Making it maybe time to go, but calling it out and arguing about it isn't helpful. Tara says follow up. How can I avoid getting caught up in an argument and blowing my top? Is this a situation, Tara, where like the person is provoking you or is this a situation where you're like saying, I know you've been drinking. Like you're like calling them out, then they like do the gaslighting thing and then they blame you. I've said some awful things to my sons and apologized. I've told him I will work to be better in the future. And it happens again. I get caught up in the heat of the conversation and lose my focus. I see what you're saying. So it's just like you got to think about this as almost like your recovery, right? And just like I tell you they're gonna have lapses, you're gonna have lapses cause you're human. And the best thing to do if that happens is just to own it and say, I know I lost it yesterday, I really am trying to do better. I'm back on my wagon. You know, just own it and try to do better. Now if it happens over and over and over and it's happening more times than it's not, the person's probably gonna. It's gonna take a long time to get the trust back. Just like if they're relapsing over and over and over and over, you know, they can relapse once and they get back on track. It's like, alright, but if it's over and over and over, it's not like you're never going to forgive them or never trust them, but it's definitely going to take longer. If you feel yourself getting heated, remove yourself. If you're seeing something that you absolutely can't not say something about, which I could totally see. I mean, there's a million things I could think of like that back away. At least don't say something when you're mad. If you are, don't say it when you're mad and don't say it with angry tone. So remove yourself, get some space, do what you need to do. Good question and I appreciate your honesty there. Alan says, what is tough love and when is the best way to apply it? That's a really good question. I'm not a big proponent of tough love in the traditional way that I think. I mean, I guess it just depends on what you're thinking of in tough love. In my mind, tough love is usually some version of like, I'm done with you, I'm not talking to you anymore, or I'm kicking you you out, or it's just basically a complete cutting off of. And sometimes you do have to do a complete cutting off of. But that should be for your reasons having to do with yourself, not because you're completely cutting off and not talking to them, not doing anything for them for their self. It can be helpful for you. It's rarely helpful for them. So your question is, is what's the best way to apply it? You apply it like, like, for example, like if someone's not paying their bills and they keep calling you asking you for money and you decide, yeah, I'm done with that. You can decide that for you, which is totally fine. And you can just say, you don't have to say, I can't afford it. You don't have to say, I'm sick of enabling you. You're a big drug addict. You need to quit using drugs and get your own money. You don't have to say any of that. You can just say like, yeah, I'm not going to do that anymore. I'm not going to pay your electric bill this time. Don't even try to like explain yourself. That kind of goes in that other category of like, you don't have to talk about it. The more you talk about it, the more room for argument there'll be. Nicole from Michigan. When your loved one drinks in front of you, what do I do or say? Nothing. You don't. If, when they drink and they drink in front of you, they get nasty and they get mean and something bad happens and you don't want to be in that situation, don't be in that situation. But you don't even have to tell them. That's why you're not in that situation. Because even saying like, well, I'm going to leave now because you got that drink, that's still calling it out. So no, like trying to wiggle around the rule here. But you can just say, you know, if they say, hey, do you want to go out to eat? But you Know, every time you go out to eat, they order all these drinks and they get really nasty, obnoxious. You can say, nah, I think I'm just going to have a sandwich at home. Right? So it's not about you have to put up with everything or you have to be ran over, but it is about the fact that you don't have to call it out and say, why they know why, Jennifer. It's so. It's hard when someone tells. It's hard when someone knows you so well. When I try not to say anything and bite my lip, my face tells too much. Anything I can think of to try to make my face not tell the story. I hear you. It really is hard because it's like when you. It's like, you know those, like body language experts, even if you know all the tricks, it's. You're trying to control so many things at once, like your words, what you're saying, your body language, your tone. It's almost like too many things to control at once and something's going to slip through. So the best thing to do is when you feel yourself feeling really heated is to exit, to get some space, to go another room to watch a show first and come back to it because it is really hard to like, first of all, it's really hard just to resist saying something. But to resist saying something and look calm and cool about it and put the calm, cool energy is really hard. T. Thompson says. My husband says he wants to stop for me and our grandson, but he doesn't want to quit when I don't call him out when he drinks, he drinks more and more often. Oh, I love this question. Do I stay silent? This is a perfect question. This is exactly what I'm talking about. T. Yes, you let. When you call him out, the worst possible thing is that he'll drink less. You know why that's the worst possible thing? Because when he drinks less, he's going to convince himself. See, I got this. I don't know why you so upset. Just had two beers, just had some wine with dinner, and you're so upset. And so what happens is when they drink less, they, they go further back into denial. So you don't want to lessen it. You either want it to just go so they can see the problem, or you want it to be done. Lessening it doesn't work. So don't try to help them lessen it. You're literally making them stay and deny longer. And when, if, if they say, I want to get sober for you and the grandkid, you say, I love you so much. That's awesome. I really appreciate it. It means so much to me. You take that. Don't say, you gotta do it for yourself or something crazy like that. No, you say, oh, my gosh, that's so kind of you. I know this is really important to you. I can't tell you how much I appreciate that you just let that happen. My sober guy has no motivation to make goals or achieve them. He doesn't know what he wants. How can I encourage him? I don't know how, like, how sober they are, as in how long they've been sober or what they're sober from. But a lot of times it takes a while for that dopamine to kick back in. That can take sometimes a few months before they feel, like, motivated and excited or energetic about anything. But you can stimulate that dopamine just by positively reinforcing them. Say, hey, you're having a good hair day. You look good. Anything you can find, literally, when you do that, give somebody a compliment, you say something positive, they get, like, a nice little drip of good brain chemical, a tiny little drop. And so you start helping their brain chemistry change in that kind of way. Michelle said, my son was sober for a few months, but he was so depressed and had no motivation when he was sober, he actually looked sick. What can I do? Most of the time? When people get sober initially, like, the first 30 days, they. It's. It is hard, and it's common for them to feel more depressed and not have motivation. It usually does start to get better after that. If it doesn't, like, if I have somebody that's been sober, like, a couple months and they're not feeling better, and some very, very rarely, but occasionally maybe even feeling worse, then I think that's. That's when you got to say, okay, there's like, an underlying depression here, maybe some anxiety trauma, like something for real under here that's not just being prompted by the substances. And we need to deal with that. It could be a medication, like a brain chemistry thing. It could be a counseling thing, a trauma thing, but that's a good time to, like, deal with it. And then the. The other thing, too, is. And I don't know that this is. In your case, I'm not really saying this to you, Michelle, but I'm just saying this to other people. Sometime the addictive person doesn't want to give you the satisfaction of seeing and knowing that they feel better. So sometimes they'll act unhappy and depressed and like they're still miserable because they're still hanging on to this power struggle with you. I'm not saying that to you, Michelle, because you're saying you can tell by looking at them. But it's like they don't even want to admit to you that they are better or that you were right about something. So. Let's see. Walked away from my. Is it boyfriend because he relapsed after rehab, but he was dry drunk. I tried to help and support. How do I know if it was the right thing? How do I heal from all the damage? Lying, gaslighting, cheating. If you walked away, usually by the time someone walks away, it's usually like, you've put up. You've done everything you can do. You're done. You realize it's not helping them. You realize it's toxic for you. So it's rare that someone walks away when. When I would say it was the wrong decision occasionally, and it's only because I'm seeing the client and I'm their advocate, I'll be like, they're so close to getting sober. I can't believe, like, they got kicked out today or whatever, like, it was gonna happen the next few days. But rarely. My guess is you tried. You did everything. You poured your heart into it, and you couldn't take it anymore. As far as healing from it, talking. You. If you want to see a counselor, if you want to process with someone or even just a friend. But the only thing I say about that is just make sure you're processing it with someone who understands addiction. So they don't say all those, like, not helpful things, like, oh, you're just lucky to be rid of him, or, you know, like, those things that just aren't helpful. Somebody who kind of. They understand. Ashley says, hey, Amber, I've been trying so hard to follow your advice and work on my own recovery, but my husband just keeps using. I feel like I'm living a fake life, being good to him every day despite him using. Is that normal? Yes, it's very normal. And. And in some ways, you. You kind of are faking it. In some ways, you are holding in a lot of negative emotions. And I know that may seem, like, weird for a counselor to say, but relationships require tact, right? And if we want to hold relationships this situation or not, sometimes we do have to hold things in, and sometimes we do have to put on a happy face when we're not happy about something. So, yeah, I do understand what you're saying. And the fact that his. He Keeps using or drinking. These things that I'm telling you to do don't make them stop using. In fact, a lot of times they do use or drink or whatever it is more. And that's actually good because the thing here is getting you out of the back eye roll. So they can't blame you and you can't. They can't be distracting themselves with what your flaws are or whatever, and then their behavior is still there. It makes them have to look at it. And that does go on for a while. And a lot of times they'll be sort of secretly trying to, like, do it less or they'll be taking periods without it. They'll start into that bargaining phase, and it may take a while. I get what you're saying. It feels like you're ignoring it, but you're not. You're being strategic. Karen says, my son is once again in jail and will probably be going to prison. What can I say to him to be sorry but not have an I told you so attitude? How can I be supportive and sorry? I mean, I can tell from just reading your comment that you do feel bad for him. So I know you probably begged and pleaded and threatened and nagged and did everything possible to make him not do whatever it was he was doing that landed him there. But you still feel bad for them. I mean, even when someone does something so bad that they, like, lose their family or they go to jail or they lose their job, even though you try to tell them you still feel sorry for them. So just say that. Say, dude, I know this sucks. I hate it for you. Just be empathetic. You don't have to put the I told you so in there. They know it. Beth says, is it ever a good idea to allow your husband to move back in before he's in recovery to try the positive reinforcement strategies? I asked him to move out due to feeling like I was losing myself in addiction, anxiety, and no focus on myself. Or can this be done while separated, still doing things as a family with our daughter? If you've already asked them to move out, I would not have them come back in and start this process over. If he was in the house and you hadn't asked him to move out, then I'd say, yes, do this. But you don't want to. You don't want to invite. You don't want to bring them back in when they're still using because the same thing is going to happen. And if you couldn't tolerate it before, you might not be able to tolerate now, but you can still stay connected. You guys can meet up, you can send them messages. You can be friendly and kind and supportive of them even if they're not living in your house. Because sometimes you just can't do the things I'm telling you when you have front row seats. I think to myself, when I say these things to you, I'm like, yeah, Amber, easy for you to say. You're not living with them. I think it. I know it's true. And sometimes you need some distance to be able to do these things. How do you handle self pity party? Especially about things caused by their choices. I have just been staying silent. Is that the right thing? Yeah. Think about like this. Think about it like. Like your kid, maybe. Like you try to get them to study for their math test. You nagged them all week. They didn't study. They come home with an F on their math test. Now you've got a choice here. You can say, I told you to study. And when you say that, what you do is you prompt defensiveness. If you say, dang, man, I know. That sucks. I hate that feeling. Guess what they think. They're like, I know, I should have listened to you. I should have studied. They may not say that to you, but that's what they're gonna think. And so the not saying anything is better than saying something. But even better than that, if you say something empathetic, it's even better because then they literally are gonna acknowledge, I know, she told me, should have listened. Like I said, they may not say it, but they're gonna think it. My son expressed that if he stops fentanyl, the most overdoses happen when relapsing. And his reason for not stopping. Is there a way to respond to his reasoning? That's ridiculous, Nancy. It's not ridiculous in that the fact isn't true, but it's just a ridiculous rationalization. I'm not going to stop using fentanyl because most relapses happen during. I mean, most overdoses happen during relapse. There's some truth in that, but that reasoning is just. It's just bs. That doesn't mean you should call them out on it necessarily. But that don't make no sense. Yeah, that's not a good reason to keep. To keep doing it. And I know you know that. Why is it when you confront the drinking, the demon comes out? I mean, anger and hate I've never seen from him before. Exactly, Grace. Like that's exactly what we're talking about. Because it makes someone defensive. Even when they know they're in a wrong, it hits that shame button and shame feels so horrible that will do almost anything to make that shameful feeling go away. And one of the fastest ways to make it go away is to get angry instead. And so it's that anger that's coming out to protect them from that shame because it's such an uncomfortable bad feeling and because they know it makes you shut up. It's also a manipulation tactic sometimes because they know if they throw a big enough fit, you'll stop saying something. Is that all of our questions? Bre? Are we at the end? All right, everybody, thank you so much for everybody who joined us live. This has been a very fun conversation. I hope it's been helpful for you. As always. There are more resources in the description and great thing to watch after this is go back and look at those boundaries videos. In fact, I've got a playlist for you that's just about the boundaries because that conversation goes hand in hand with this conversation. All right, everybody, I will see you next Thursday at 1. Bye. Bye.