What to Do When One Person's Addiction Monopolizes the Entire Family

How do you balance the addicted person's needs with all the other people in the house, yourself, the kids, the extended family? If you have an addicted loved one, especially if they live in your house, then you probably know it is like walking a tightrope and trying to meet everybody's needs is extremely difficult. And you guys will be very happy to know that we have special guests with us. Dana Gaulden, and Dana is a book author, an interventionist, and most importantly, she has lived with addiction. She has lived with it in her house. She gets it. She's been there. She understands it from every angle. Welcome. We're glad you're here, Dana.

Thank you, Amber. It's so great to be here and be an asset to you because I love your work and I watch all your videos and I think they're just a great resource. And I'm just so delighted to be able to share in that process with you. So thanks for having me.

Glad you're here. Now, for you guys watching, Dana is actually like a real deal interventionist, like the kind you see on the TV show, like the kind that shows up. And she does that really intense work with families. Can you tell us a little bit about how you, how and why you came to be doing that?

How long do we have, Amber? Well, like Amber said, like you said, I have been around addiction most of my life. I had a dad that had issues. I had every boyfriend that had issues. I had an ex-husband who was clean and sober in recovery when I met him, relapsed after knee surgery during our marriage, got addicted to the pain pills, turned back to gambling and heroin, and, you know, just the spiral down. And I did end up having to divorce him to protect my 2 young daughters at the time. So when you say I've lived with addiction, I've lived with kids in the home with addiction. Which is why we didn't mention it, but I'm a family addictions coach like you as well, Amber. And that's really where my passion lies because that's the side of addiction I lived on.

Right.

So the whole process of me getting in this line of work started when, after I was divorced, my ex-husband ended up spiraling out of control even worse and ended up in prison because of all his addictions. And I told him, make some notes when you're in prison because you've been in recovery, been, um, you know, addicted most of your life. Let's, let's write a book. We can really help people on both sides of the fence here. And so I took his notes when he got out of prison, and I did a lot of research, and I— we wrote this, co-authored the book together. It's called Addiction Rescue: The No-BS Guide to Recovery. It is helping lots of people out there. It's just a really comprehensive guide to get in and stay in recovery.

Link in the description, people.

So that's where the journey started. When he got out of prison, his goal became, I've disappointed everyone in my life. I'm going to do everything I can now to make them proud.

Okay. So wait, wait, wait just one second because I have a question and I know that everybody listening has this question. If you, if this guy's addiction was so bad that you had to divorce him, it seems like y'all are super friendly. You're like being super nice to him. He's in prison. Like how, how something good has to happen for you guys to be able to But still, even when he was in active addiction, for you to still have that kind of relationship with him. So help us understand that.

Absolutely. And that's something we help families with because we're business partners now. And it's something we do help families with because we want to repair those relationships. It doesn't mean you have to be back together romantically, but for the kids' sake, for your sanity, holding resentments and bitterness, I mean, it just Hurts us, right? Doesn't do anything for the other person.

Right.

So we teach families how to get through that, because I always say you love the person at one point. There was some redeeming quality that got you in the relationship in the first place. The addiction is not the person. It's just a— however you want to look at it, whether, you know, it's a disease or just something that came in by environmentally, whatever it is, you got to separate the person from the addiction. They're not bad people. They have a bad habit.

Right, that's right.

Yeah, so, um, when he was in active addiction and I divorced him, I had empathy, right? I wouldn't want to be in his head. I, I, you know, I, I say I had empathy and I also had sympathy because it is a hard thing to battle, right? And I always wanted to be a support to him. I just couldn't be in a relationship and raise my kids in the house anymore. So, um, afterwards when he got clean and sober, I never not supported him. When he was in prison, I took my daughters up to visit him. He was 3 hours away. I never wanted to ruin those relationships. I was always in the hopeful place because I always say there's always hope that he could, you know, get his act together and figure it out and get in recovery again and stay there and practice it on a daily basis because that's what it takes. Like any kind of other practice you do, meditation practice, yoga practice, you do it all the time. And so I never lost hope and I always believed in him even when he didn't believe in himself. And I think that's what it takes for people to understand you got to separate the addiction from the person that you love. And there was something there in the first place. Go find it again. Do it for the kids' sake. Do it for your own sanity and your own wellbeing. So that's how that came about.

So you kind of said earlier that the big reason why you divorced was because you had to do that to protect your kids. Can you tell us anything at all about how you made that decision and why you made that decision and maybe what it was like, what was happening? And because that's a thing that a lot of Spouses especially are facing, and it's just so hard. Like, is it worse for the kids if I divorce them? Is it worse for the kids if I stay? So take us through kind of what you had to go through to sort through that.

That is a really easy thing for me, Amber. It is so simple. My mom stayed with my dad till I was 18. I was the youngest. I had an older sister. She was not going to divorce him until the kids were out of the house. And as soon as I left for college, she divorced him. Landed me on a therapist couch for 20 years.

Okay.

Trying to figure out my life. It was, it was a horrible experience for me. And so because I learned what love wasn't, I learned, um, that my parents didn't let me know what was going on even though I kind of saw what was going on. And so, uh, I wanted to do everything opposite. I didn't want to do that to my children. And I just had in the back of my head, you don't have to put up with a man's crap And I don't want to teach my daughters to put up with a man's crap because that's what I did. I just looked for relationships where—

That's a really good point because what you're talking about is the role modeling of the relationship even more than just specifically the addictive traits, but the— but your kids are watching the dynamics between the 2 adults.

Yep. If it had been just me, I think it would've been a lot harder to leave the relationship. But in my mind, there was no way I was going to do to my kids what my family did to me. And I was going to show my kids that you didn't have to do that. And I had all these great mantras. A man is not a plan. You know, your dad's not going to take us down with him. You know, girl power. The 3 of us can do this. We don't need a man in our life to make this happen. Because I was taught the opposite. I was taught a man is a plan. And without a man, you don't have anything going for you.

Right? Okay.

Okay. That was old school. You know, that's how it was. You know, so, um, so I became very empowered. I read every self-help book I can. I opened my own business because my ex-husband was tanking our business. And I just, uh, you know, I just— I'm a manifester and I believe, you know, what you think about comes about. And I put all my energy into making my life work with my daughters without a man in it. And, and that's what I did. And I have 2 amazing, strong, intelligent, educated— I put him through college while he was in prison. I, I just made it all happen. So, and I, and I, I know that's not easy, and I know that, um, women in these situations struggle. And I don't mean to say I didn't struggle and it wasn't easy. It's at times I was working 3 jobs and I was scrubbing toilets in my daughter's volleyball, um, club because I wanted her to get that scholarship and be at the best club. So I just did whatever I had to do, uh, to make it happen. And my— that daughter ended up on a D1 scholarship.

Wow.

Um, you're right, to college. But I also told her I can only afford one kid in college, so you got to get a scholarship. So, okay, whatever he did, you know, we just made it all work. And now I believe we all have the capacity to do that with the right mindset.

You're one tough cookie. Yeah, you are. What did you, what did you, Dana, tell the kids when all this was going on? Like, did you try to protect them from it? Did they know everything? Did they just know some things? Like, how did you manage that part of it?

Well, it was— I didn't have a choice in our case because my ex-husband, at the time husband, was splashed all over our local newspaper because he was being indicted.

And oh, so it was like a big public thing.

Yeah, it was. It was really ugly. And you know what was horrible for the kids is, you know, at those ages they don't— they're not reading the paper, and we didn't have all the online stuff we have now. But it was the parents, you know, the parents of their friends are saying, did you see about it?

Right.

Yeah, Sophie's dad did, you know. So, so So they were getting— I will say they only missed one day of school, and that was the day that he was sentenced. But other than that, they went to school. And I think that, you know, the things I was teaching them was helping them get through that. That's how I learned how to balance that. So no, I never lied to the kids. I didn't specifically tell them your dad is a drug addict because at the time, you know, it had turned to heroin and whatnot. So he was running a very successful business until He tanked it. And so I think it's very important that the kids understand in some capacity, according to their age, what is going on. 'Cause there's nothing more confusing when behind closed doors it's really chaotic and crazy and you see your dad doing, or mom or sibling, whatever, older sibling, doing stuff that you think doesn't look quite right, or you're not seeing other people do that, but you're telling them nothing's wrong, everything's fine. The kids don't have the capacity to sort that out, so it's just going to mess them up in their heads.

And that's actually— some people don't realize it, they think they're protecting, but they're not. That's actually gaslighting your kid when you do that, and it actually sets your kid up for having a lifelong problem with being able to trust their own gut instinct because you're reinforcing to your kid like your instincts are wrong, like it's not happening, but even though they're seeing it, and that That really messes a kid up.

So that's exactly right.

Yeah.

So I was, I was honest with them. They, you know, and I think it probably helped that they knew their dad was in recovery because we were always going to Al-Anon meetings, AA together. And so we told them from a very early age, you know, about addiction, about being in recovery, you know, they, you know, in a very small way, they were very young. But when they, when the, when it started spiraling out of control, I sent them to Alateen and there's Alataut and you've got to give them those resources. At their school, they had a counseling group with the school counselor for kids of parents who were going through divorce or dealing with things at home.

Mm-hmm.

I put them in those. Those are the kind of resources you have to offer the kids, whether you're involved in a religious entity, temple, church, whatever. In our case, we were Jewish, so we had our rabbis and their peers at temple. So whatever you can find for your kids as resources so they can talk about it with their peers, with a trusted adult. It's too scary to talk at home with what's going on. So you need to point them in the direction, whether it's school or a therapist or Alateen, whatever, to get the kids involved in that. They need to understand what's going on. And for me, it was really important because I wanted my kids to know you're susceptible to this. It's going on in your home. It's genetic. If it is genetic, if it's just environmental, and I'm not going to take on that argument, but whatever it is, they're predisposed to it somehow. So I wanted them to always be aware, you've got to pay attention. I'm not naive to think I can keep them from trying. Trying things, but I wanted them to do it in a safe way, knowing they're susceptible.

Right. Well, let me ask you this, Dana, because this, I usually work with the addicted person. Okay. And so, and I work with a lot of husbands, a lot of husbands who drink too much, a lot of businessmen husbands who drink too much. And they're fairly functional usually when they see me. I like to say they're in that like stage 3 functional, but About to go over the edge zone. And one of the things that really gets their attention more than when their spouse says anything about it is when their kids start saying something about it. But, and you would think, because I'm always like, all right, this is going to get his attention. Like, how's he going to deny that? But denial is very powerful. And so even when the kids start saying like those When they're little, they're like, Daddy, are you drinking again? Or they make the statements, or they're bigger, they may make even more direct statements about it. The addicted person, and I said husbands because I see a lot of husbands, but it can be anybody. But they'll say, instead of thinking these kids see what's going on and they really have an opinion about it, they'll say the other parent is turning the kids against them. So instead of acknowledge that the kids are being affected and that the kids see it, they'll just say, oh, my wife or my husband, they're just like telling my kids all this terrible stuff and that's why they think that. So it's like their way of dismissing that.

100%. Yeah. Yeah. I, I want to—

Did your husband feel that way? How did you—

Yeah. Yeah. Stop telling the kids, you know, what about me? Stop telling them, you know, that, that what their dad's doing, you know? And, uh, and my answer was, well, if you're not going to tell them, I'm going to, because I'm not going to confuse them. You know, they need to know what's going on. And I did, you know, I never— it wasn't until they were older that I told them the extent of his use. That's not necessary. But they have to understand that there's something going on in their home that's not going on in their friends' homes, that they're not crazy, that what they're seeing is real. And like you said, Amber, they can trust their gut. That's just so important.

It is.

You get that internal compass off at an early age, it's hard to get it back.

That's right. That's right. You don't trust yourself. Right. One of the things with the kids is sometimes if it's like maybe one of the adults in the house that's addicted, then, or maybe it's older sibling, the parents will say, well, we don't talk about it in front of them. If the parents don't talk about it in front of them, which is probably pretty smart, do you think it's still like, is it still affecting the kids? Is there a way to hide it? From them or no?

You know, I think that's just on an individual basis. If they're seeing stuff that they're asking questions, address it. If you see your child's grades going down, if you see your child's friends changing, if you see your child retreating into isolation, you know, those are the things you got to look at because that's what's going to— in their behavior, you're going to see things maybe before they're actually going to talk about it.

That's a good point. Yeah.

Yeah, so, uh, you know, and I'm just such a big communicator with the kids, you know, you just gotta— I, I bought a hot tub and put it in my backyard because I heard once the kids really open up and talk in a hot tub. Like, so I was like, okay, I'm gonna get it. Yeah, I read that or heard that somewhere.

So my son would tell me, you know, Mom, I think I could talk to you better if I had a hot tub. Can you picture him saying it?

Yeah, my kid had told me. I don't know if I'd take it as Taking it is so powerful, but I read it and I was like, oh, that's a great idea. You know, I've also heard that kids really open up on the way to school, so I always, or after school, so I always drove my kids to, they hated the bus anyway, so I always tried to make it a point in my schedule to be able to drive them at least one way to school or back because I heard that they open up in the car during that time. So I always, I just think that open line of communication with the kids is just so important. I always believe you can't be a 'cause I told you so parent. It doesn't work. You've got to put some kind of backing behind that. Well, why are you telling me so? So I just think communication is key with the kids and in all those situations. So I wouldn't, I wouldn't go there if they're not asking about it. If they ask about it, go there and be honest, as honest as you can without throwing your loved one under the bus.

I'm glad you said that. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like you were super intentional about creating opportunities that would allow your kids to talk about that, or probably anything else that they had going on in life. If somebody, kid was bothering them at school or whatever, like you're very intentional about that. But I also really liked what you said, and you said it so quick, I want to call attention to it. And you said, if they're not asking questions, then don't talk about it. Because I also kind of want to warn against— This, and that is if you're married to someone who has an addiction, you're not getting your own needs met, which we're going to— I'm going to ask Dana about in a second. So fair warning, it's coming, Dana.

Get ready.

You're not getting your own needs met. And one thing that happens, and I know you don't mean for it to happen, but it's very easy to start relying on your kids to meet your needs. And there can become an enmeshment between the parent and the kid where the parent is talking to the kid too much about what's going on and leaning on them like they would a friend or a partner. And That is also very toxic for the kids. So it's hard because you expect your partner to be there to meet your emotional needs and they're not. And if you're not intentional about how you're going to do that, it's going to leak out onto your kids.

100% happened to me within my family of origin.

Okay.

Absolutely. I became my dad's confidant. My dad was the addict, right? But my mom didn't want to deal with him, so I was pushed off on him to be You know, the confidant. I could bring him down when he was escalated. And it was a horrible— it's a horrible position to put a kid in. They don't have the capacity mentally, emotionally to take those roles on, and that's very confusing and damaging to them. And I was very intentional about not doing that. Have some girlfriends, have some guy friends, you know, if you're a dude, if you're a girl, whatever, that you can spill— have a therapist because you don't want to—

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it is so important, Amber. You're absolutely right. You cannot bring the kids into the person that helps you balance what you don't have with your spouse.

Right. I'm so glad you said it because I really want people to understand there's a balance between being honest with your kids and allowing them the space to talk about it is different than you're leaning onto your kids and you're using them To process your own emotions or feelings about it. That is very unhealthy for your kids. And it kind of happens. It's not like you consciously made that decision, but it can happen. And I love what you said, Dana. You said kids are not old enough and they're not mature enough to really handle that, but it feels good to the kid at the time because it feels like you treat me like a grownup and you trust me and you feel special. So you—

I'm needed.

I'm needed. So you play into it and it puts you in like a parentified role, which looks good on the surface. But it isn't always good.

No, very damaging.

It reminds me of the family roles, which I know Dana knows something about. Tell us about the family roles, the different kinds of characters that tend to develop.

Okay. So, and this isn't me, this was established a long, long time ago. There are 6 family roles around addiction, one of those roles being the addict. And then the other family members take on one of 5 maladaptive roles. And they can have characteristics from more than one, but they tend to be stronger in one of those areas than the other. And there's the caretaker, the lost child, the mascot, the scapegoat. So they all have a name. I have a quiz that I know you're going to have a link for. So it's in the description. Free little informational quiz helps a lot identify which family character— which family role you take on the characteristics of. And then it'll, it'll send you your, your results. And then whatever score— where you score the highest is the roles you take on. And then there's some follow-up emails that explain what those roles mean and then your fears you might have about stepping out of those roles. So it's just a great tool to help identify where you're at in one of those maladaptive roles because we all take on maladaptive roles, to be sure.

All right, confession, you guys. I took the quiz today because I was like, oh, let me see this quiz. Guess what that dang quiz said about me, Dana?

What did it say, Amber? Are you a caretaker?

Said that I'm the addict self-indulgent one. I was like, what?

Well, you've talked about your pop before, I think.

And then I had to say it's pretty true. Like, I'm an addict at heart. I just don't do drugs and alcohol. And that's the reason I don't, because if I did, it'd be crazy. Everything I do is crazy. So I was like, first I was kind of insulted, and then I was like, okay, I guess that's right.

That's so interesting. But it's also, you know, and I'm sure you scored high in other areas too. Yeah. Which doesn't mean you're a balanced person.

Okay. I like that. I like your reframe. Very counselor-like of you.

You're welcome.

I feel better. Yeah, you're welcome. But I'll say that overall in my family, especially my family of origin, because I grew up in an addictive family, I definitely am the family hero. And can you talk a little bit to our viewers about what family heroes, because that's a sneaky one and I think it looks Like, oh, this person, it's not affecting them at all. And they're so high functioning, but it is still a dysfunctional characteristic that gets taken on. Just looks pretty. Can you tell us a little bit about that one?

So the hero role tends to be the perfectionist in the family. The one that gets good grades might have a really successful job. And the hero can fix everything. They are, they take on a lot. And they, they're very resourceful and they might be the one at work that's the manager or the head of the room because they're really good at that. And so they think they can also fix the addict and they feel very shameful if they can't fix the addict because they're used to being the one that fixes everything, whether it's at school and they're the head of the group leading the project or whatever it is. They're the hero. They come through, they are resourceful and get the job done.

Right.

And so they think they're going to fix it. When, when we're doing interventions, um, that's the one that can often get in the way because they want to do it their way. They think they have all the answers. They know how to fix everything.

Dang, I'm called out twice today.

You scored high in the hero too?

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

You're saving people, Amber.

I mean, no, I'm a counselor. Like, hello. Like, could you be any more obvious? Like, to me?

Yeah.

No. Aren't you sweet? See, you're fit. You call me out and then you make me feel better. I like it. I can remember, I don't know that I necessarily ever thought I could fix the addiction. Number one, I didn't really realize it was addiction. I know that's dumb, but when you grow up in it, it's just normal. You don't know. But I did definitely try to manage all the Like do damage control, like make sure Christmas happened, make sure my younger sister had school clothes to wear to school, make sure my younger sister had a prom dress. Like all of those things, even though in my mind at the time I didn't, I wasn't like, my family's addicted. I'm going to do these things. It wasn't like a conscious thing. It's just a parentified type role that I took on.

Yep. Yep. And that's the maladaptive role that we don't realize we're doing. And the same thing happened in my family. I had no— so I'll tell you the funny story about how I found out about addiction, because I didn't know. There was addiction going on in my home. This was just the way our home was.

Right.

And then I had this boyfriend that was a drug addict. And my dad's thing wasn't drugs. He was process addictions, gambling and whatnot. So I had this boyfriend that was a drug addict and alcoholic. And he finally went to treatment. Can't remember the circumstances around that that got him to treatment. But I dropped him off at treatment. And I meet his counselor when I drop him off. And I give her the verbal laundry list of everything she has to fix in him. Right, you know, well, he does this and he does this and you got to fix this and then he'll be great and I'll be happy, my relationship will be wonderful. And she looked at me and I had no idea what she was— I think she was just really trying hard not to roll her eyes and just handed me a pamphlet and said, go to Al-Anon. And I was like, what do you mean? There's nothing wrong with me. This is what's wrong with him. I don't— you know, I'm—

He's got the problem. That's why I'm bringing him here and I'll fix it.

Right now, like, yeah, I tried again, go to Al-Anon. She just handed me that pamphlet. And so because I'm such a caretaker and I'm such a people pleaser. That was my role. I went to Al-Anon because I was going to learn how to better handle him and learn how to cope with him and learn how to manage his addiction.

I'm gonna go to Al-Anon so I can fix him better.

Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be a good girlfriend and learn how to fix him. Yeah, and of course it wasn't long before I started, you know, realizing, oh, this program's for me, and oh, I might have a piece of this problem. And, and that's where my journey started, and I was in my 20s, so it's It's been an ongoing journey for 40 years now, or close to it.

So yeah, I know it's strange, but when you grow up in it, it really is normal and you don't quite get it until you're on the outside of it looking back, I think.

Absolutely. That's how it was for me.

Now, how do you manage if they're like, if maybe your spouse is addicted or maybe one of your kids is addicted, how do you handle The outside family members, the ones that live outside the home, like the in-laws or the grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, like, do you tell them stuff? Do you not tell them stuff? What role do they have? How do you navigate that with the extended family?

Yeah, so I think it's tricky. I think it's different in every situation. I think it's different with how often are they visiting? How close are they? Are they coming once a year for Christmas? Are they visiting monthly? Is it someone you're taking your kids to, and traveling to them. So I think, you know, it's always different. Again, it's like the kids— don't necessarily have to bring it up, but don't lie about it either. You know, a lot of family members, especially if it's on the spouse's side of the family that has the addiction, and you're coming to their family, they're not going to want to hear it from you. They're going to believe in their loved one, and they're going to be in denial that anything's wrong with their loved one. So it might create just more animosity and struggles for you in those relationships with in-laws or in—

Oh my gosh, Anna, that happens all the time. And it is so maddening when you're the spouse and you try and you think, their parents can help me with this. I'm trying to tell them that their son is alcoholic or their son is this or whatever. And you go to them and what ends up happening is they take the son or the wife, they take their kid's side. And align against you.

Yeah. So you have to—

and it causes things to be worse. And that is just, I don't even know, a lot of bad emotions or, you know, like, it's like it's shocked.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and I, you know, I experienced that because my in-laws tried to keep our marriage together and, you know, their thing with my mother-in-law, she was like, oh, well, he, you know, my husband, his dad, oh, well, he gambled too. And he would go to the bar after work and it's like, Yeah, and that was okay for you. It's not okay for me, you know. So, um, I, I think that they— obviously, if there's a divorce going on or if there's tension in the home, you know, it needs to be addressed. Um, but you, you just have to play that really lightly, you know. Um, I understand that you don't get it because you're not in my home, you don't live with it, but this is a problem for me.

Right.

And I hope you can respect, you know, where I'm at in this process. But again, Amber, like the kids, you know, don't bring it up and blatantly talk about it and throw your loved one under the bus and say, do you know what he's doing? Because they don't know what they're doing in your home.

Right.

But, you know, if they're— if you're at a family wedding and your spouse is drunk again and somebody's having to walk them up the stairs after the wedding, you know, people are going to see that. And, you know, they might ask questions about that. And there's nothing wrong with saying, yeah, I think this might be a problem. It's something that I'm looking at. It's something that we might need to address. You know, so honesty is just always the best policy, but if there's nothing to be said, keep your mouth shut.

I like it kind of the same as with the kids. It's like, don't lie, tell the truth if it's asked. But I think what happens a lot is the family member, the primary family member who's the most involved in the situation, they're being gaslighted a lot. They're being told they're crazy and it's not happening. And one of the ways that they try to get support and get validation that this is happening is they go around to the family and the friends and the church and they try to garner support from these other people. Like, this is happening because it helps to sort of validate that it is happening, which it definitely is. But that backfires very often, this going around trying to get everybody to be on your side. It a lot of times blows up on you.

It does. And here's the biggest thing about that: trust your gut, trust your instincts. You know, remember things like, if their lips are moving, they're lying. Watch their feet, not their mouth. You know, and you just gotta— you gotta believe in your gut. And you gotta have somebody that's outside of the family, outside that has relationships and emotional ties Whether it's a therapist or a friend or somebody who's been through it before, or a coach, you know, like we are, Amber, to run that stuff by because it is crazy making and we need to sort it out.

Right.

You can't sort it out with the wrong people because it won't get sorted out. You can't fix the problem with the people that are causing the problem.

That's right. That's right. I like that. Let me ask you this, because when you were saying that, Dana, it brought this to my mind. Suddenly I was just remembering this. client that I was working with a good while back, but it was the husband who had a problem and they were pretty involved in their church. Well, the wife went to the church and was asking the church members, like people they knew close, to talk to him or to say something or to try to, you know, and I thought that was terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible idea. I don't know what you think.

I agree.

I'm just wondering, like, I was just like, oh, don't do it.

Well, that's exactly what you said, running around trying to get support, get people on your side. So, you know, that's why it's important to find the professionals. I mean, I was hoping you were going to say they went to the clergy, not the members of the church. You know, that would've been the better option, don't you think?

Well, they did, they did sort of both because they were pretty involved in the church. So they, the wife was basically trying to get these outside people, hey, can you talk to my husband? But It really just alienated him, right? Like now all it is is now he doesn't want to go to church because now he thinks everyone thinks these bad things about him, you know? And I was like, don't do that. You know? So it's like, that's what I mean sometimes when I say like it, it can backfire on you even though you have the good intentions, you're trying to do the right thing. You have to really think it through. Like, how's my spouse going to receive that? Not only are they going to feel judged by the people in the church, but they're going to feel like you've been disloyal to them extremely.

That's right.

Yeah.

Super, yeah, betrayed. That's how that feels.

Yeah.

Yeah. So you got to know who the right people are to go to for that. And typically in a situation like that, it's, uh, it's not their best friends and they're in denial anyway. So hearing it from their best friends or the people at the church, they're just, they're gonna, like you said, it's gonna push them away. Yeah. Especially if they're in denial and they, they don't want to acknowledge that there's anything going on. They'll just stay away from the people that are acknowledging it.

Right now, do you have just a few minutes to take some questions? If we— the people that are online, they want to ask some questions?

Yes.

All right, let's see here.

I'm not even gonna look at that. I see, I see all the comments and it's like overwhelming to me. I know, I know. So you sort through that.

And if you're watching live now, go ahead and if you've got a question, go ahead and put it because there's a little delay. And all the time when I hit end, then I see 5 more comments come up and questions. I'm like, oh, just when I And so go ahead and put them in there because there's a little delay about those popping up. Debbie has a question here. Debbie says, I know several people who would be better off in jail. Almost called the cops on one of them yesterday. Is that ever a good idea?

100%. So I did an intervention recently and the, it was actually the ex-boyfriend, but they're still good friends, was telling me That, um, okay, wait, let me preface it. The girl that I was doing the intervention on was actually in the hospital because she— alcohol was her drug of choice and she had passed out in the shower and fell and fractured her back.

Wow.

Yeah, so she was staying in the hospital. I actually did the intervention on her in the hospital. Um, on the pre-intervention the day before, the ex-boyfriend was telling me that she had gotten in a car accident. She had been drinking and he was on his bike and she called and he was actually close to the scene, so he came right over on his bicycle Then the cops showed up and he totally covered up for the cops that she had been drinking. It was in the middle of the day, so he said, oh, she's on whatever medication, it must have— whatever. Totally covered it. Cops never even breathalyzed her or anything, right? And I'm looking, I'm going, dude, if you had let that consequence happen, she wouldn't be in the hospital with a fractured back or worse, dead. She could have been dead.

Right. Is that—

They have—

That was a great opportunity. It was a huge— missed opportunity. And the video I released on Tuesday was all about allowing the natural consequences, like not punishing. You don't create the consequences, but you allow them. And you guys listen to Dana. She is telling you some wise words here. Like, yeah, you don't have to make it happen, but it's not your job to stop it from happening.

That's exactly right. And those are, it's a lot of work I do with the families around on the pre-intervention process because they have to understand that everything they're doing is manipulative tactics. tactics that they've been taught by their loved one to protect them so they don't suffer the consequences of their actions. And if they are being protected from the consequences of their actions, they have no need to change. If you continue to do that, they will continue to do what they're doing. If you want your addict to stop using, you have to make it uncomfortable for them to keep using.

Right. You're really— what I would say is you don't have to make it uncomfortable, you just have to let it Get itself uncomfortable. You don't have to do anything.

Right, right.

You just stay out the way. It'll get uncomfortable on its own. Your job is just not to go in and fix things.

An addict cannot stay an addict without the support and help from the people around them.

That's right. That's right. But I think one of the things that Debbie is saying though, which is a little different, because I think there's the, my loved one gets in legal trouble, I shouldn't fix it. There's that, but there's the, Should I call the cops on them myself? Like, let's say my son has an addiction problem and he's totally messed up and I told him he couldn't leave, but he grabbed the keys to the car and he took off and he was driving and he was really messed up.

Should I call the cops?

It's like, should I be the one to enlist them?

What do you think about that? Yeah, I think it's the same answer. Yeah. It's safety first. If they grab the keys to the car and they're on the road and they've been doing whatever their drug of choice is, they're a danger to themselves and they're a danger to others. Safety first, Amber. You always say that too.

That's right. Yeah. Well, what if it's not a safety issue? What if it's this? And I'm just asking all these questions because I know that these are things that happen all the time that people are wondering. What if it's not like the, I know my loved one is putting other people in danger because that's a little easier. But what if it's like, I found the drug paraphernalia in the house?

Well, it depends on what your boundaries are. Right. I mean, some people are more comfortable having their loved one at home doing drugs where they feel they're safe and not on the streets doing it.

Okay.

Some people are, uh, have a hard line. There's no drugs in my house.

Right.

So it depends on, you know, it's everybody's definition of expectations and success with their life.

Right.

So, right, individual basis.

I will. People I know that have seen a lot of my videos, they've probably heard me say before, but families say that a lot, like exactly what you're saying, like no drugs in my house. But I just want you to understand as a family member, if your loved one is addicted and they use drugs, there are drugs in your house. So understand when you set that limit that you're going to have to enforce that limit. Don't think that just because you said no drugs in my house, there won't be drugs in your house. There will absolutely be drugs in your house if they If they're an addict, they can't live somewhere and not have the drugs. And okay, best case scenario, they have them like in the car in your driveway, but they're probably not even that. They're in your house. So I think a lot of families say the limit and they think they're going to know I'm serious and they're not going to do it.

Yeah.

It's in your house, people. Yeah.

Yeah. So we deal a lot of this during interventions because we always write a bottom lines letter, right? So if they decide not to go to treatment, there's a letter typed up that's read to them about what their The consequences of that are. And oftentimes, uh, this is a big one because if it's your child, um, that one of the consequences of the bottom line is you can't live in my home anymore. That's okay for some people. It's not okay for other people. So it's different in every circumstance. Some people are fed up. They don't want the drugs in their home. And they say, if you don't go to treatment, uh, you, you can't live in my home anymore.

Mm-hmm.

Right. And you have to decide what's comfortable for you. I will say though, most of the time, if there's drugs, if you have an addict in your home, there are going to be drugs in your home. And if you're not comfortable with drugs being in the home, then absolutely you either tell them they can't live at home or you call the cops on them.

So, right.

But it's everybody's comfort level.

Right. And I understand where the family members come from because they're like, I don't want that stuff in my house. I totally get that, like valid point. But if you're letting a person that has an addiction live in the house with you and you're thinking that those things are not in your house, then you don't understand addiction. There's a line not lining up somewhere. And I know a lot of parents will say, especially to their kid, if I find drugs in this house, I'm going to call the cops. And when they say that, they don't really think they're going to have to do that. They think that it'll scare them. Right.

But I'm telling you now, like, no, no, they're not going to believe you on anything unless you follow through. And that's why when we write those Those letters, I make sure you have to follow through with this.

Right. So you really gotta think about, could I really have my kid arrested? Could I really do this? So you better really think about it before you say it. Yeah.

Because I'm okay leaving it out, but I'm not okay if I put it in and you can't follow through with it.

That's right. That's right. Don't say it just to think you're just scaring them into acting right or something.

Because they've already walked all over your boundaries. They've already shattered all your expectations. So don't think that that's not going to continue to happen. happen until something changes. And that's why interventions work so well because it really changes the dynamic. Because your loved one doesn't trust you, they don't believe you. They've heard it before. And so, you know, when you get to the point where it's like you hire a professional because you don't know how to handle it anymore, you got to draw those bottom lines and we got to make them comfortable.

Right. Let's see, Amber, nice name, Amber says, I think it's better to let consequences happen on their own unless you or your loved one is in danger. I think that's a really good point, Amber, and it kind of connects to the question that we just had. I think it's best if you just let them get in legal trouble versus if you call the cops on them. I'm not saying you should never call the cops on them, but it's not going to teach the lesson that you want it to teach if they know that you're the reason why they got in legal trouble. Because they're not going to connect in their head like, I broke the law, this is my consequence. They're going to connect in their head, I can't believe you had your own son arrested. Like, they're going to focus on you being the bad thing.

Yeah.

Because, yeah, versus their behavior.

Because addicts always point the finger. They're never to blame. It's everybody else. And you're just giving them more ammunition to blame you.

That's right.

Yep. I agree 100% with that, Amber. Amber and Amber.

Amber Power.

Yes.

Lisa says, what is your take on a recovering alcoholic drinking a lot of non-alcoholic beer after 5 months sobriety? I'll let you in. What you think?

Yeah, you know, I, I, it's, it's definitely the person. I don't, you know, right now there you can get everything zero proof, right? You can buy rum, you can buy tequila, you can buy everything zero proof. And there's a lot of gray area drinkers out there, right? Is everybody familiar with gray area drinking where you haven't suffered a lot of consequences? You haven't had DUIs. It's just like you're just like, like, am I drinking too much? Like I used to have a glass of wine. Now I'm drinking the whole bottle. Like I just don't feel good on the weekends. I feel like I'm hungover all the time. I have anxiety. Did I drink too much? Okay, so those gray area drinkers that aren't they don't classify themselves as alcoholics. I think that zero-proof stuff is great in those situations because they want to be social, they want to go out, but they don't— they, they're, they're checking out the drink and they might do it, you know, Dry July or, you know, Sober October, just take 30 days out. Okay, I have no problem with alcoholic beverages in those situations. I also have no problem with alcoholic beverages in certain situations if an, an alcoholic has a lot of sobriety under their belt.

Like the non-alcoholic beverages, is that what you're saying? Not—

I'm sorry.

Right, okay.

Yeah, we have an alcoholic that's now clean and sober And they're, um, they're wanting non-alcoholic beverages. If they've got sobriety, if they're in a program of recovery, if they're doing the right things, I have no problem with that. I really don't, because it's— the zero-proof stuff is out there for a reason. Some people actually like the taste of alcohol, you know. So, um, so yeah, but you know, 5 months is pretty early. You just want to watch for triggers. What's the setting in which they're drinking it? What's their behaviors around? Here's, here's another thing. I always say to families about interventions, they're like, oh, my loved one's sober, that's successful. They took a pee test and that's successful, right?

Mm-hmm.

I think it's more important to find out how they would do on a personality test or a behavior test, right? Because it's not the drinking that's the problem, it's behaviors and the perceptions and what's happening around that they're doing that. So if somebody, you know, that's the difference of just not drinking and being in recovery, just not drinking, you're just, you know, an angry alcoholic, right? You still have the same behaviors, you're still acting the same way, you're still, dishonest and not, you have to be honest in all your affairs. So you're not honest in all your affairs, whatever, whatever those behaviors and perceptions are. Are you in recovery or are you just not drinking? Right. So if they're in recovery and their behaviors are exemplifying recovery, no problem. Right. So again, individual situation.

I agree completely, Dana. I think it is on an individual basis. And I have a lot of clients ask me that, like, is it okay to to drink non-alcoholic beverages. And is it okay from the standpoint of, is it like a relapse or is it going to get you messed up? No, it's definitely not relapse. It's definitely not got alcohol in it. There's no issue with it regarding that. But I do tell my clients, I don't tell them they can't. I just say, but be careful. For some of my clients, it really helps them. They feel more regular like everybody else, and it maybe even satisfies that craving sometimes. But for other clients, it's a trigger because it tastes like it, smells like it, feels like it, sounds like it when you open it. And you're activating all of those senses that can cause you to want the real thing. So what I tell my clients is like, I don't know if you try it and it makes you feel better and it works great. If you try it and you find that you have cravings and that it makes it worse, don't. So yeah, great answer. Yeah, it depends on the person. Yeah.

You know what, Amber, before we take your question, I just want to touch on something really quick because you said we're going to come back and we never did, and that's how to take care of yourself in the home, right?

Thank you.

Yes. Yeah, I just— it just popped up.

Thank you. I'm glad you remembered that.

Yeah. Yeah, because I do want to just touch on that really quick. So, um, my, my thing is, is that, uh, when we're in a family home with active addiction, all of our focus becomes on the addict, and all of our hopes and dreams become focused on them getting clean and sober. And we forget about ourselves in that process. We forget that we once had hopes and dreams, that we had things that we like to do. And, um, you know, we're so busy with everything else, whether you're a parent or have a job or whatever, and then you've got this person that you're just trying to get sober. Everything revolves around that person. And when everything revolves around that person, you're giving them the attention and the stage that they're Needing and they're desiring because oh my gosh, there's a backstory, backstory, backstory, right? Every addict is covering up some kind of pain, and when they're getting right, they don't drink because they're happy; they drink because they're in pain, or they use.

Right.

Okay. So giving them that stage and the attention of it is feeding that hole that's in them, right? So taking some of that attention away and taking your life back is so essential important, and as working with families, Amber, I know we both concentrate on, focus on those loved ones have to have their life back, right? Because they've given up so much.

Mm-hmm.

So I always say make a bucket list, you know, make a vision board of all the things you used to like to do. Did you want to go, you know, skydiving and forgot all about that? Go skydiving. You know, did you used to have a great practice of working out at the gym, or, uh, yeah, gave up your meditating in the morning because You got bit, whatever it is, you know, go back to the things that make you zen, calm, reduces the anxiety. So that's what I say is you forget to focus on yourself. So go back to the things you used to do. What did you do before your addict started taking over your life?

Right.

Focus on those things again.

Absolutely. And I want you guys to know that Dana's not just saying that to be like, oh, be nice to yourselves, like get a pedicure.

Yeah.

The only reason I'm saying this is because you need to get your sanity back for yourself and because it's the best thing to do for your addicted loved one. And I'll add this just to really emphasize what you're saying is at first you probably don't feel like doing it and you probably don't feel like you're in the mood, but I want you to do it anyway. Just like an addicted person when they first start doing regular things again, I feel like if you'll start going back to yourself, the feeling will follow. The behavior will come before the feeling. So I know you're not in the mood. I know it's hard to think about other things when this is happening, but you've got to make a decision to refocus some of your energy and, or you're never going to get yourself back.

And it is the best thing you can do to get your loved one to start doing something different too, because till you do something different, they're not going to do anything different. It goes back to that same rule. And when they see you focusing on yourself and taking your life back and they're not getting that attention and all that stage, they're going to look at things differently too.

That's right. So you do it because it's the best thing for everybody. For everybody.

Yeah. Okay. So I just wanted to go back to that because I remember—

No, I'm so glad you did because I get myself sidetracked. I'm super ADD. I'm just like squirrel. Speaking of that, David, thank you so very much for the Super Chat. Let's see if I can put it up there. Hold on a second. I got to figure out my technology here because David has a comment and a Super Chat. He says, my wife and I can't thank you enough. Our adult son has struggled with alcohol for 2 years, and while he is trying sober living again, you helped us stay grounded through all of the crisis. Thank you so much. And that brings up something you were saying to me recently, which I think is super great here, David. And that's, you're saying even though he's in sober living, You and your wife were still working on you. And I know you and I had a conversation about that recently, about how sometimes families, they think, okay, the person's away at treatment. Whew, it's over, job done.

Oh, can I touch on that for a minute?

Yes, that's your opening right there.

So as an interventionist, I tell my families in that pre-intervention that they're going to be really surprised because it's going to be worse for them if their addict does go to treatment than if they don't go to treatment. And they're like, what? No, that can't be possible. Okay, let me explain this really quick. If they say, no, I'm not going to treatment, it's kind of like exhaust. They're exhausted. It's just like they resigned to the exhaustion of this is just the way it's going to be, right? Okay.

You just give into it.

You just give in because this is the way it's been for so long. They really don't expect anything different, right?

Mm-hmm.

But when their loved one goes to treatment, they're so used to that chaos and drama and the worry and the anxiety. Now you take the loved one out of the picture, that gets tenfold worse. Now they don't even have sights on them, right? They're, they're away somewhere, they can't talk to them, they've taken away electronics for an extended period of time. And they'll get a call from the treatment center and from their kid because they'll let them use the phone after a couple weeks, and they'll be like, I hate it here, and the therapist It sucks and the food's horrible. And all of a sudden they're calling up the interventionist and calling the treatment center going, where'd you put my kid? And it's like, okay, wait, 2 weeks ago you told me they can't even tell the truth. They lie about everything. And now you hear one thing from them and you're going to believe them? No, they're just trying to stir up chaos.

I know, I know, I know. You forgot. Yeah, right.

I'll say this.

Do you know what they're telling the treatment center about you? The same things. Promise.

So, so, um, so I, as a family addiction coach, I tell my people, you don't get to do an intervention and your loved one go into recovery somewhere without you working on your side of the street. Because they go away and they get immersed in recovery, right? And they get all the things and tools and skills and tricks they need to come home and try to live sober. And I'm not talking after 30 days because I don't think 30 days works. I'm talking about at least 90 days or sober living or something. And then they come back to their environment and you're still Speaking the same language you were speaking before they left and they come back, okay, it's just a matter of time. That is a recipe for disaster. So you've got that length of time while they're away to get the family's act together and learn different behaviors and how your loved one was manipulating and how they were controlling the situation and how to take back control.

Mm-hmm.

You got to learn all that stuff in that time so when they come back, you can be the best support you can to your loved one staying sober and everybody living healthy and happy relationships Forever after.

That's right. I love it. Because what you're saying there is like, okay, now you got to be accountable. Now you've really got to do the work because now you're on the hook too, right? Because number one, you probably paying them a lot of money for treatment and you don't want to ruin it.

Yeah.

By not doing this piece. But also if they get better and you don't, it sure shows Your stuff comes to the surface. So I wholeheartedly agree with Dana here. Yes. And I agree with what David was saying while they're in treatment too. It is tiring because it's exhausting to get in there. So I tell families sometimes like, okay, I know you need a few days just to breathe, but you can't just consider this vacation and then all of a sudden they're coming back and then you're not ready.

Yeah. And I just want to add to that because Because I do get the whole thing, why do I got to work at this? Why do I have to get in recovery? I don't have the problem. And here's how I explain it. Don't look at recovery as like I'm recovering from an addiction because clearly the loved ones aren't, but we're all recovering from something in life, right? We had a bad daddy relationship. We got a divorce. We lost a job. We lost a loved one to death, whatever it is. We're all recovering from someone. And there's always room to grow in our lives and become better people.

Mm-hmm.

That's all recovery is. It's just becoming the best version of yourself. Being better in relationships, better in life, better, just better human beings. So don't look at recovery like, I don't have an addiction. Why? I don't need recovery. Yeah, everybody needs to grow in life and work on themselves. That's all recovery is.

Right. Don't take it as an accusation or don't take it as someone saying you're the problem because that's not what they're saying. It's not saying you're a bad person, but I'll tell you this, you can't live with addiction without becoming a little crazy. So I'm not saying it was your fault. I'm just saying like part of the symptoms of addiction is making family crazy. Even sometimes the family's crazy already. Okay, let's just be real. Even if you weren't, you will be. Okay? So you gotta right yourself. You don't have to blame yourself, but you gotta acknowledge like this addiction that made you a little crazy. Y'all know it's true. Okay? Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

And you gotta get back on track. All right, Dana, tell us where they can find you if they want to know more from you or hear from you or that kind of thing.

Okay, so we're going to put the link for the quiz and the link for the book. So those are both in there. Yep. And then my website for my family addiction coaching is danagolden.com. So that explains that. And then there's another website at theliferecoverycoach.com. That is my ex-husband's and my site where we do interventions, recovery coaching, family addiction coaching. So that has all— and a lot of our story too. So if you're just curious about the crazy story of us, there's a lot of information on there. People get a kick out of that at times.

Yeah.

So yeah, that's where the intervention information is if you're interested in that. We are always happy to, and there's a booking page. You know, we'll talk. We love talking to people. So, you know, don't feel like, oh, if I talk now, I'm gonna get hooked into something. You know, I'm gonna spend money. It's not like that. We're we're here to help people and save lives. So, you know, if you need direction, if we don't have the tools or resource to help you, we we have enough resources out there to point you in the right direction. We have a network of treatment centers all over the country that we can give you resources for. We know what insurance. Insurances are accepted where. Uh, we— I will tell you, if you want to do an intervention, if you're at that point with your loved one, we will send them out of state. So, um, yeah, so you just don't want your loved one in that same area.

We could do a whole video on that.

We could, we could do a whole video.

We could, we could. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot to that.

Yeah, yeah. So, uh, yeah, that's why we have a network all over— well, we have clients all over the country too, but we always want to You know, get them on the other side of the country, as far away as we can. Yeah. Yeah. Not always, but oftentimes. So anyway, yeah. So we work with a lot of— we're preferred providers in the intervention space for some treatment centers. And there's a lot of information on our website and a lot of links to stuff we do and information we have. So, and that's theliferecoverycoach.com.

All right. Thank you so much. I'm so glad you were here. If you want to know more about taking care of yourself and managing your own emotions about this, I'm going to link up a video for you to watch that really specifically focuses on your emotions and what's going on with you and why that's happening and some things you can do to help that. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you so much, Dana. You've been just a wealth of information. It's so great to hear from not just a professional, but somebody that's been there.

Yeah, I'm so happy to be here and share with, with your peeps. And I hope it was helpful and we're continuing to help and save lives out there in the addiction space.

So. All right, bye everybody. I will see you next Thursday.