A Husband’s Perspective on Marrying a Doctor

And I kind of just walked around and just asked, you know, attractive women if they were pre med. And then I found one that. So I, Yeah, just tried to lock down a doctor early. I'm just kidding. No.

Hi, everybody. Welcome to the podcast. This is Generations md. My name is Stephanie, and I'm joined here by my colleague, Dr. Sarah Davis, who's also my mother. And we also have a very special guest.

Yes, we have a special guest today, my buddy Will Maddox, who has an illustrious career as a medical writer. But today we're really not talking about him and his career. We are talking about the fact that he is the spouse of a physician. So welcome to the podcast, Will.

Thank you guys for having me. Excited to be here.

Yes. So this kind of came up recently as we were talking about relationships and people getting married throughout the process, whether, you know, during medical school, during residency. We interviewed a few weeks ago a couple that were. Did, when they were both doctors that did the couples match and kind of all the challenges that they faced with that. But it made me start thinking about, you know, what. What is it like for the person who is on the other side of this, who is going through the process of medical school and residency and match and. Yeah. You know, and then even now with raising children and so we just kind of want to hear a little bit about your story.

Yeah, I mean, I. It was a little unique in that. So my wife and I, we started dating in undergrad. And I kind of just walked around and just asked, you know, attractive women if they were pre med. And then I found one that I knew I was never going to make any money or really do anything that was, you know, super lucrative. So I, Yeah, just tried to lock down a doctor early. I'm just kidding. No. Yeah. So we started dating during undergrad and, you know, she kind of actually was. Was pre med. And then like, her junior year was like, I'm not doing a doctor. She's like a third generation physician. So it was sort of like, I think it wasn't expected of her, but that's kind of what she knew and that sort of thing. And then kind of decided maybe she didn't want to do it and then ended up doing AmeriCorps program after college and then got to work at a. At a, basically a children's shelter for kids that were, you know, taken into foster care who had special medical needs. And she went to a lot of their doctor's appointments and got to, like, interact with physicians, you know, helping kids in need and really saw that as kind of her calling. And as I'm sure, you know, you guys both remember, and Stephanie, you're probably experiencing right now, a lot of what you do in med school is very detached. You know, the memorization and the Krebs cycle and this and that, you know, it's can feel like hoops to jump through. I always felt like that just talking to Katie, you know, I'm like, oh, they're just like, seeing if you're good at memorizing and you can work hard and you can take a good test, which, you know, are those skills applicable to being a good doctor. That's another. Another podcast. But so, you know, so she saw what it was like and really kind of got back into med school. Blah, blah, blah. All that to say we kind of went into med school having been having dated for several years, which I think was helpful, because it is a time where you don't see your partner for a while. And we got. We got married her between her second and third year of med school.

Okay.

Yeah, so we. We were. I was actually out of state for our first two years of med school.

Well played.

Yeah, it was kind of. There's some drama, but, yeah, we broke up. I decided I wanted to move, get away from everything. I moved to Iowa to coach soccer to college, and. But before I actually moved, but after I committed to move, we got back together, of course, and. And so she was already going to med school. Ended up being a decent fit because, you know, your first two years, it's a lot of, you know, a lot of studying, a lot of tests, and it was, you know, me not being around and just kind of coming every once in a while, every month or two, really allowed her to kind of sink her teeth fully in, like, socially and academically into, you know, her new school and her new community, which I think was good for her. And I got to go, you know, be a college soccer coach and have, like, a fake job, basically. But, I mean, during that time, you know, we had to be really intentional about, you know, chatting. I think it was like early video chat. I feel like we Skyped a lot and, you know, and then kind of planning out all of our visits. Okay, you're going to come here, then I'm going to go there, figuring that out. And she was obviously busier and a little bit less flexible. And I lived in a very small town in Iowa, and she lives in Dallas, and so I. I often visited her, you know, most of the time. And yeah, for me, you know, it was, you know, if I had some, like, advice, I guess, for people in my situation who are either coming from out of state or not in med school, not around all the things, is just kind of, you know, I think I tried to be, you know, understanding that she was, like, immersed in this world, in this community, like, in a way that a normal job or even a normal college, you know, may not, just because of the time constraints and the time spent together. And it's a lot of people coming from all over, and this is kind of your new community. And so I was just like, all right, let's just. Let's hang out with your friends, and your friends will become my friends. And I think that worked well. And today, I mean, there's, you know, two or three families from her med school that live near us in East Dallas, and we all hang out, and I'm friends with, you know, it's a couple doctors that got married and then one other, you know, couple, whatever, but we're all kind of friends. And it started, you know, whenever that was, like, 15 years ago almost. And, you know, so I think that was my strategy, was, like, I'm just going to come here to visit. But, you know, the plan was always to move here. So I kind of had my eye on that and said, okay, well, this is my wife's people. These are her colleagues and her friends. So, you know, I'm going to do my best to try and make them like me or at least, you know, try and, you know, hang out with them and let them become my community as well. In terms of just kind of leaning into, yeah, I'll hang out when they can hang out, and I'll do the things that they want to do. And. Yeah, and when I moved to Dallas and didn't know anyone really, you know, that was A lot of those folks were, you know, became. Became my friends and became my community and are still. Many of them are still to this day.

And they weren't just making a bunch of dumb doctor jokes all the time or talking about studying for the last test.

You know, it was interesting. I, sure, I always made a lot of dumb jokes, but it was interesting me. Like, so I, you know, got a master of teaching and, like, studied pedagogy and, like, think about education a lot and, like, okay, what are the best. If here's your goal. What are the best things to learn? And I, like, had lots of problems with the pedagogy of medical school. And I know it's changing in some ways, and they do incorporate a lot more. I've read and heard, you know, a lot more like connection to actual practice of medicine. I feel like when Katie was there, she was literally listening to a lecture on 1.5 speed, memorizing whatever the content was, regurgitating it on a test two or three weeks later, forgetting it and repeating the process. And I just, I was like, why? Like that's not, that's not helpful.

We like, unfortunately that is still the case. And I am watching lectures at two times speed and literally just strength because just like cramming it all in. Okay, about that though, then what like do you think should be different about that?

I mean, so like just a general education philosophy, like you know, the more relevant and you know, you have these skills you want to build, right? And you have, in theory they're leading up to this sort of practical application. And I think the clearer that connection can be made. And of course, I was teaching middle school and high school students most of my life. I haven't really taught, you know, obviously post grad or graduate school type situations. But you know, to me, and I've actually, I wrote a story recently about the TCU medical school that have this sort of blank on the name, like clinically integrated model or something like that. Basically it sounds like they are spending more time in doctor's offices, hospitals, right from the beginning. And instead of having two years of book learning and then two years of your clinical rotations, it's like four years of it all mixed together. And so like, oh, we're learning, you know, we're learning about palm, you know, right now, pulmonary system reading, doing the things, taking the tests. But you know, we're also two couple times a week spending time, you know, with pulmonologists and seeing how this, what we're learning is applied in the real world. Not only does that make your, your learning more fun, I think it makes it more, you know, you learn it better and gives you that reason and that sort of motivation instead of just like, I don't want to do this, I'm just going to regurgitate and then I got to move on because I have to do it. And there's a lot of, you know, in all education and all jobs, a lot of traditionalism and you're going to do it this way because that's how we had to do it. And we're good doctors. And so, you know, I think I maybe have a little more progressive outlook on education in general. That exists in high school too. You know, we're asked people to memorize things and calculus and Whatever else. And you don't know why, you don't know who uses this, but you just do it because you want to get a good grade and you want to do the next thing. Yeah, I feel like a lot of, a lot of medical especially, it's all the lecture. Like, that's like the worst way people learn. Like, say, for 45 minutes and listen. And it was, it was really like, to me was the irony was that the more important your learning got, the worse the pedagogy got that when you're in elementary, you're interacting and you're discussing and you're talking. And then, you know, middle school, a little less than high school, there's like a little bit of group stuff, some lecture, you're taking notes. And then college, you sit there and you listen, regurgitate. Or you sit there and listen, you write a paper. And then in med school, even more. So, um, and like, you know, people who study, teaching and learning would say like, yeah, talking at someone for an hour is the worst way to teach them that thing. So, yeah, it was ironic to me that the more you went in your education, the worse the teaching got. That was my hot take. But I do, I have heard about them some things changing and I don't know, probably not everywhere. And it's all to different extents. But I do think there are, I've read at least about some schools that are like, recognizing that and like making a, you know, intentional push to do that. Yeah, these are all my hot takes amongst her friends. Like coming off my teaching degree and teaching high school being like, you know, I can't believe this is because they would complain about, you know, I gotta study, I can lecture two times speed. You know, I'm like, well, you just all sitting your house and listen to a lecture, like, why are you even here? Like, what's the point? You know, um, and then they, you know, by the time you get to your clinical rotations, they like destroy your body with schedule. Things that make it really difficult. So a lot of medical school.

Sorry, no, no, I, I. And like, they are changing and it is a lot more like, like right now it's currently more disease based. Like, we'll be like, okay, we're studying diabetes this week. So then we're learning metabolism, like through the lens of like a disease state and like, more like that. And then next semester we start doing like module. So it's like cardiology. Like, yeah, we're doing palm. Like, it'll be more like that, more system space. But it is still like, you still gotta learn the stuff. So it's still like a lot of like just you, you. There's so much information, they have to like tell it to you at some point. So it's like, I mean, some people don't even watch lectures though. So like.

Yeah, I mean, I think, I'm not saying you don't need to know those things. I just, I wished that it would have been sort of less taught in this isolation of you're doing this so you can pass the test in a couple weeks. But can you connect what you're making me memorize and read? And even if you are going to tell me, can we then talk about and can I see or experience or connect with a, you know, professional who uses this skill that I'm now memorizing so I can at least make that connection and see it for myself? And that's obviously more, more work. It's more labor intensive and you know, you have to get people on board as far as like the preceptors or whatever to host students and it's harder work to do that, which is probably why it's not as common.

But yeah, yeah, I do think it's.

Better than when I, when I did it. I mean we were just very much like, it's all books and like not really systems oriented. And so I do think that's improving. But I think like lots of things and especially in the medical world, change is slow.

Yeah. Yeah. So that was one thing, I guess as like a non, you know, medical person, especially like an educator coming in and like seeing the way, you know, seeing what she's doing and being like, oh, it seems not great for like long term learning or whatever in terms of like what research says about how people learn. But yeah, but it is the way it is and you know, that was kind of the, the mantra.

Yeah. What was different about like the, the way you expected things to be versus how they actually played out? Like, you knew that your future wife was going to medical school and you knew that it was going to be like hard. But like, how was it actually different?

H. You know, I think. Yeah, so I was gone those first two years of med school, arrived year three when she's starting her clinical rotations. And so like, I don't know if I really understood exactly what like the intensity of her schedule. And there would be like, you know, and I was, I, you know, I was teaching and coaching a sport. So I had like long days as well, at least during the school year and there would be days Where a week. There'd be like a week here and there. We like, really wouldn't talk because she would be on nights and I would get home and she'd be, you know, asleep or whatever. I'd wake up and she'd be sleep. I can't remember how it all worked, but there we'd be four or five days or we would live in the same house. One would get home while the other was asleep and vice versa and. And really not speak. And that was like our first year of marriage had a good chunk of that. So that's like, not ideal, you know. I think so I was a little bit surprised just about like, oh, okay, well, I'm really not going to see her much. And, and so, you know, that for me in a way was, you know, I really like, had to go and like, make a social life and otherwise for myself in terms of like, fine friends who could do stuff because even when she's off, she's tired or she needs to be studying or whatever. And so it's kind of a little bit of, you know, fend for yourself. And I like, you know, joined a couple soccer teams and volunteered over here and, you know, was, you know, first year teacher as well. So, like, was trying to put in the work there. But I think I was a little bit surprised just about the intensity of the schedule, which maybe I shouldn't have, but that was one thing. Another one happened a little bit later, more kind of post residency. Because residency also is pretty intense. So our first five years of marriage were third and fourth year med school and the first three years of residency, which is like, I'm learning now, 15 years in, like, you know, not. We didn't develop the best habits in terms of like, being intentional about spending time together. And because we came from like college where like, you have time to do whatever all the time. And we both played soccer on the soccer team, so saw her on all the trips. You know, school was what it was, but not like super intense. And so we had time, we hung out a lot. Next phase was like, you're married, but very, but very, you know, living kind of parallel ish life just schedule wise. And then it was kind of like the post residency phase where for me I had to like, dial back a lot of my, like, other social engagements because now she's kind of settled into like a more normal schedule and she got right into like clinic work 9 to 5 pretty much. She never did, like, shift stuff. So for me I was like, oh, okay, well, I'm teaching And I coach two sports, and I'm in this group, and I'm on this team, and I volunteer every Wednesday here. And I, like, built this sort of, like, schedule for myself over the last few years because I. Because she was gone working, studying. That's what she wanted me to do. She didn't want me to sit around and watch her or distract her, whatever it was. It was actually easier for her both to know that I was busy and having fun and also just so she could, like, sleep when she needed to and, you know, do all the things she needed to do. So I think for me, that was, like, a big adjustment, was okay. Now I need to, like, make more time for, you know, our relationship and not do so much, not do so, be so busy. That's a little bit. My personality as well is to just, like, overbook and I'm an extrovert and like to do things and see people and go places and not sleep much or whatever. So, you know, it was an adjustment from that perspective, too, in terms of, like, you know, if. If you are in a relationship through the, like, mid school and residency and, you know, post, know, kind of adjusting to your partner's schedule in terms of, oh, now they're working normal hours and, you know, and they want to start building. That's like, their time to start their life, right? And I always joke that, like, med school a little bit is trading your 20s for your 40s. And you're probably experiencing this now, Stephanie. You have friends who are working and, like, making good money and doing all the fun things and traveling and da, da, da, while you're studying, working hard. And, you know, Katie felt that and like, kind of in the thick of it and like, I don't like this, and I'm in this rotation. I don't like. And I don't like staying up late. And now that we're like 40, like, she loves her job and she gets good, makes good money and has good hours. And, you know, she probably has friends who are working a lot and making, you know, similar or hate their job or don't find meaning. And so, you know, and I told her that at the time because she, she. I think it, you know, if you'd asked her during residency and maybe even early in her job, she's like, I would not do this again. I would not go through med school. I. I'll do something. There's easier ways to make money. And it was a lot. And she's very, like, sensitive to schedule stuff. Like, like, she needs sleep. She's not, like, adrenaline person, stay up late. So that was really hard for her. And I think I encouraged her. I was like, you say that now. Wait till you're, you know, have your own practice. So you're. She's the medical director now of, like, her group, so she's like, kind of the boss. And she has a lot of time off and makes good money and has a normal schedule and feels a lot of meaning in her job. And that is a very rare combination that, you know, that peop. Future physicians should think about. There's a lot of ways to make money. There's some good schedules, but also to find, like, real meaning in your work is pretty rare. So I think most. A lot of physicians do, so.

So now she thinks it's all worth it. Has she. Has she confirmed?

No, I think now she. I asked her recently, and I was like, okay, what do you think? Now she's like, yeah, I would do it again. This is great. Like, I'm doing all the things I wanted to do, and this was the vision, you know, a long time ago, I kind of lost the, you know, lost the plot a little bit, at least with myself, in the hard times. And so, you know, that's what friends and partners are for, hopefully, to encourage. Encourage each other and help see that vision. But, I mean, and she. Even though she. Her mom was a doctor, her stepdad's a doctor, her grandpa's a doctor, you know, physician. So. And she had a nice life and nice house and, you know, all that. So. But even for her, it was hard when you're, you know, on no sleep and haven't seen your husband in four days and whatever else it is, you know, while your friends are doing the things that you wish you were doing and you're seeing them, they're all going to Cabo together. Okay, well, I got a test, you know, whatever it is. So.

Well, did you ever have, you know, I mean, I knew you kind of knew what you were getting into, but I mean, did you ever have times where you felt, like, a little bit resentful because, you know, you probably had friends that were going off to Cabo, and you could have gone off to Cabo maybe, but without your partner? And so did you ever feel like, oh, man, this is. This is a long, long road that I'm having to do as well?

I don't think I had too much resentment, really. I think I was pretty, like, fulfilled. I mean, I felt like I was checking a lot of those boxes. Maybe not the money box, but, like, I Love teaching. And I felt that was an important, you know, and I liked it. And I. I enjoyed working with kids and coaching and doing all those things. I was, like, generally fulfilled in life. So, I mean, there were some times that. Yeah, like when. When she's gone or she can't travel or she can't do things that are, like, a little disappointing. Um, but I mean, honestly, she was like, you go, you know, go do your things. And so sometimes I would, you know, so I would take guys trips or go do things and, you know, without her. And she was very, you know, she's very kind and independent in all those ways. So I probably had it good maybe on that front. I remember. I mean, that's like a big. Like, Stephanie's probably in this stage now, like, bachelorette, bachelor party time. I feel like I went on a million of those, like, all sorts of trips all over. So I feel like I got a good amount of fun social things, and I had a good group of guy friends that I kind of built up during med school and residency, you know, that we'd go to concerts, we go to dinner, we go grab a beer, we go watch a game. So I kind of had a lot of that. But I'm also, like, an extra. I'm very extroverted and, like, can make friends with anyone. And, you know, so that's not everyone. And if you are a little more dependent upon yourself, you know, your partner for social, you know, interaction, or you don't have tons of friends, you know, outside of her, or maybe her med school friends, you know, I think it could definitely be harder. You know, I think I'm one that, like, really enjoys community and building that. And so we, like, we're in a. I was in a, like, guys group at my church, and I had soccer team friends, and so I had all these circles that sort of fulfilled a lot of those, you know, social needs while she was slogging through. So she was probably the one more resentful one, if anyone.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you feel like you. I mean, just talking about how obviously, like, you have to support your partner through going through this really difficult time, but in the times when you felt like you needed support, what was the most helpful thing to you? Besides, like, I guess, finding these other social groups and identity beyond that or what else?

Yeah, I mean, I think all those are a big part of it. You know, I do think, like, you know, having a partner who, like, wants to, you know, you got to be just really intentional about your time during that period. And so, you know, she would definitely do that and kind of we were, I guess. Yeah, just intentional is the best way to say it about. Okay. When she does have a break, when she does have a gap, you know, a summer off, like we would go like we went to Guatemala for like a month in the summer. We did. We climbed Machu Picchu one of those summers. And so we do like a lot of those trips. That for me is like, you know, the equivalent maybe of like emotional support or really feeling connected or feeling loved, kind of those little adventures. But outside of that, you know, we'd build in a lot of time, you know, we rebuild in time where we could find it, you know. Okay, here's your test. Okay, we'll go to dinner that night. Okay, we'll do this, you know. Okay, you're. You're switching back to days. Okay, well then let me let you recover here and then we'll book that. And I think I'm like the planner of the, of the partnership as well. So that, you know, probably was good because I like to do stuff and I don't mind planning it, but I think being intentional about that in terms of getting time with your partner during that time is good. But. But yeah, I mean, I think building your identity outside of that relationship is like probably essential to being in a relationship throughout med school and into residency. Just because yeah, your, your partner's time is going to be, you know, really valuable to them and minimal, just other social type times. So you kind of just gotta one just be okay with it and build identity outside of that. But to be intentional and when you know that that time is coming to really, you know, work those times to interact in.

Did you, did you, did you guys have other friends where there were, you know, similarly like where it was also, you know, one partner was in med school and then the other partner was. Was not. And I'm just kind of. And not to get too into different gender roles, but I am a little bit curious about, you know, if there were other people there where it was the, the man in med school and the woman. What, what other examples of that you saw?

Yeah, there were a few. I felt often that our social interactions were like if it was three couples, it's five MDs and me often the case or Because, I mean a lot of people just, you know, it's a time in people's life where they are looking to find a permanent partner. And it's also a very like, intense time. And so you're. Yeah. Your college boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever. You know, they got to be willing to, you know, stick with it and jump through a lot of hoops or do whatever. So, you know, a lot of people just straight break up just because they know, like, I'm, I'm focused here. I want to do all my time. And so that leaves a lot of room. So. Yeah. Katie has tons of friends that married each other from either med school or residency. And often that is like our social circles become that. Yeah. And far as a gender role, I mean, I would say it was much more common if the spouse was not going to be a physician for the non physician spouse to be a woman. Yeah, I would say that's a. It would be a little more common. Um, and yeah, I think for Katie and I, we have pretty like untraditional sort of, you know, gender roles. And part of that is, I think our personality. Part of it is that, like, she's a breadwinner. Especially now, like, I have a very flexible job. I don't make that much. So I don't really have. I don't have that much, you know, justification to be not doing domestic thing like picking up the kids and taking them to appointments and dropping them off and doing things around the house. And so I'm, you know, I joke that I'm like a stay at home husband that writes on the side. If my boss ever listens to this, she probably wouldn't like that. But I get all my work done. It's fine.

That's good stuff. We could put together like a questionnaire for if people, you know, other women in medicine are looking for a partner and they, you know, do you like going to the grocery store? Yes. Okay. You know, don't really care about lots of other things, but man, you got those skills. That's. That's good.

Yeah, sure. And I, yeah, I think it's sort of, you know, and I. It's interesting. Katie and I, you know, we've been dating since we were, you know, 18 and 19. So like, we sort of became adults together in a way that if we would have met when we were 25, might have been different. And so, you know, we. I think a lot of that, that we sort of like develop these roles and we're able to feel each other out and figure out who we were together in a way that, you know, if you meet someone later in life, you don't really do that. And so I think that benefited us. Like, if you'd have asked me 20 years ago, like, oh, are you going to be this, like, you're going to cook dinner every night and do all the grocery shopping and be like, probably not, but, like, as it happened. And I'm seeing. Okay, you know, she's doing doctor, I'm doing. I want to be a teacher, maybe, or writer or whatever, you know, figuring out some of that stuff and just kind of learning how to be an adult in college. And some of those rhythms, like, oh, I actually like to cook. It's kind of fun, and I don't mind grocery shopping and figuring that out and, like, oh, actually makes sense for our family and the rhythms for me to do this. I like hosting, and I like planning, and, like, so, you know, all that. Those pieces were kind of discovered together, which I think is maybe an advantage versus, you know, meeting someone when you're 25 and trying to figure it out, when you're maybe a little bit more developed in who you are and what. You have a clear vision of what your life and duties will look like as a. As a romantic partner or domestic partner.

Yeah.

So that's a little advantage for us. But, yeah, you know, she could have answered when I said, all right, are you gonna. Do you want to be a doctor? She could have said, would you like to grocery shop and cook?

Well, kind of. Yeah.

Well, kind of. With that, like, what advice would you have for, like, people who are dating in, like, through medical education, not just from, like, your experience, but, like, just from what you've seen? I know you mentioned that a lot of people end up, like, dating within their own class and all of that, but a lot of my friends are trying to get on hinge and stuff, and, like.

Oh, are they really?

Oh, yeah, but it's just, like, they don't have any time. And then also, just, like, setting expensive expectations with that. I don't know, like, what advice do you have for that?

Yeah, well, I think. I think. I'm sure some of the hurdles that your friends are experiencing are connected to why people just end up marrying doctors because they're the ones who understand what you're going through and are going through themselves. You know, there's like, some trauma bonding, I think, that happens in there that just kind of connects you in a way that you're not connected to other people. And, yeah, I would imagine that it is hard to, yes, start dating someone during this time when you don't have a lot of time. You're very invested. You don't know where you're gonna go. You res. You know, you're gonna match anywhere in the country. So, like, there's a lot of questions that aren't the same as if you were working another job. And you're. Yeah, you're very committed. You're gonna be very committed to, like, a specialty and a job, and that's gonna be like, you know, and, you know, you have that a little bit in every career, but I feel like it's a little bit maybe easier. And I mean, for me, like, as a teacher, like, that's a pretty flexible thing. And you can get ingrained in a school, but, like, kind of go teach anywhere, right? Like that. And you can be a doctor anywhere, but the costs of, like, uprooting, especially your own practice, are really difficult. But even, like, my wife's been at children's, you know, medical center since, like, 20. Whenever she started residency, like, 2011 or something, and she's been there for so long, and she. She did residency in her fellowship and now works there. Then it's like, a lot of work. So I want to go. Everyone knows me here. Everyone knows I'm good. I get a lot of trust. All these relationships that are beneficial, and, you know, obviously those exist in all jobs, but I feel like, especially a physician, you kind of got to be as a partner. You got to be like. Like, I was just like, all right, where are we moving? I'll, you know, I'll figure it out. We ended up staying here. You know, I don't know if I was super excited about at the time. I've grown to love Dallas and our home and our life here, but I was kind of like, all right, fun. Where are we going? We going to Oregon? We going to North Carolina? We going your hometown, Houston, whatever, you know. So I think that's one piece is sort of like, yeah, just like, establishing, like, what your path is going to look like and letting people know early, like, hey, like, I'm in med school now. You know, I don't know if everyone knows exactly what that path looks like, and that's probably the. Some of the success of your podcast is communicating that. But, like, yeah, you know, we met in our third year med school. Well, in two years, I'm gonna play this game and put a bunch of places down, and they're gonna. I'm gonna match it one, and I'm gonna have to go there if I want to keep doing this job. So, you know, that's a pretty rare proposition for someone where. And usually it's like, hey, I'm thinking you. You think you might want to move. Let's start looking for jobs over here together. You Know, do that piece where instead of, like, I'd have to sit here and. All right, where are you going? Okay, and I'll go get a job there or I'll move there. And so that's. And then again, if you do a fellowship, same process. Right. And so just being able to, you know, it's maybe it's, you know, it's probably a certain type of person or has a certain type of career or whatever that's willing to just go wherever. Maybe with remote work now, it's a lot easier, I would guess. Yeah. To just be like, doesn't matter where I work. You know, I have this. I have the XY job. And so that might make all the match stuff easier for me. It's like, man, I've been coaching this team for three years and we're just getting good, and I just have my curriculum set and the principal knows I do a good job, and now I'm gonna have to start a little. Right. And that's. That's always a tricky, you know, a tricky part of things. And to do it for med school, then to do it for residency, then for fellowship, then for job. I mean, that's a lot of, you.

Know, it's kind of a big ask.

Four times in, you know, four times in 10 years to be like, are you going to follow me? You know, because I don't have, you know, I have a little choice. But not really in some of these. So, yeah, I think that's, you know, I don't know if that's. That's not really advice at all. But I think trying to, obviously, look, being. Being upfront about it, you know, trying to communicate like that, that schedule, what that's going to look like. And I don't think you need to drop that on the. Obviously, like the first date, first text, like you're willing to move with me four times. Obviously you'll feel that out, you know, as a relationship goes and see if it's. But it is a reality that probably should be broached as things get more serious. I mean, I think that's. And, yeah, I think it's tricky. And that's why I think both the life stage people meet, but also just the nature of med school and residency mean these don't have time to interact with other people. So you're just limited to, you know, the people that you spend time with and the people that understand that journey and are willing to, you know, go along with it. So you're a bunch of doctor couples. It's great Yeah, I mean, you have. You obviously came from that. And my wife, you know, her, she had double doctor parents. Um, and, you know, it's great. Obviously, it's a comfortable life, and if you can figure it out, you know, by the time you're having kids and you both have your practice and you're sorted and you're, you know, you're in place, you can have a. A beautiful life, which Stephanie know well.

So I feel like we've touched on some challenges a lot in this episode, but do you have just, like, as we're kind of wrapping up any, like, highlights and, like, are you happy with your life and, like, the choices that you've made? It sounds like you are, but.

Yeah, no, I. You know, I. You know, I. I make, like, sugar mama jokes and, you know, that sort of thing. But I. I mean, I am definitely thankful that, you know, especially marrying a pediatrician, not having kids, like, that's. That's like a whole, like, section of. As I'm learning, like, parents are super worried about. They don't know medicine. Like, they don't know anything, and so they just freak out all the time. We get, like, you know, texts and calls from friends and neighbors. I'm sure your mom did growing up from all. From everyone as well. You maybe are already getting some of those. Stephanie, just in terms of, like, what's this rash? Should I take my kid to the er? That's huge. Obviously, just in the life in general, you know, but especially when you have. We have kids and she's a pediatrician, so that's been huge. Yeah. And the whole trading twenties for your forties thing, I think there is an aspect of that, the partner as well, because, yeah, you're not going to have as much time with them when you're young and, you know, whatever. And that's a sacrifice. That's real. And, like, yeah, I felt that for sure at the time. You know, I think I was generally fulfilled by other things going on in my life to kind of fill that void a little bit. But, yeah, I think. I think you're gonna have to be along for that, for that ride. But, like, I look at my life now. We got two kids. We, you know, we like where we live. They like their school, and we like our house, and we can go on trips and do fun things, and we have, like, this relatively, you know, comfortable, you know, lifestyle. Not that it's all about money, but it's also nice to have, like. Nothing makes me prouder than, like, telling people that I'm married. To physician, like, that's like the best feeling in the world because I can kind of be an idiot sometimes. And then they like, they're like, wait, what this guy? You got a doctor to marry you? So I think that, like, gives you automatic credibility. It's like someone who's like, okay, well his wife's a doctor, so he can't be like a total idiot. And like, yeah, I feel like I get a lot of, you know, pride in her. It's probably not every, you know, maybe traditionally men to have a wife who is like, super into her job and like, wants to push herself professionally and wants to do things like that's not for everyone. And so figuring, figuring that out as far as, you know, just those relationship dynamics. But I personally really like that and, and am proud that she, you know, has risen the ranks and she's trying to get the next go from whatever professor to this professor and. And, you know, is directing her. Her group and leading all that. So, like, for me, that's another bonus to see her, like, happy and engaged. Because I think that for a lot of people, like, that's not the case about their job.

Well, I just, I love hearing that because not. It's just not always. People aren't always like that with their partner. Sometimes they. They feel jealous when the other person has fulfillment, especially if they don't have fulfillment. Although it sounds like you do as well. So that's. That's nice. But I mean, some people don't always feel so proud of their partner or they're sometimes, like I said, like, jealous or for whatever reason, their ego kind of takes a hit if their partner is really excelling. And so I think it's. It's just kind of. It's lovely to hear you talk about your life.

I think I'm different in a lot in those types of ways. I don't think I put a lot of my value, you know, in like, how much money I make or whatever, which I'm a teacher, so what was I going to do? I never was going to do that. Or now. Now I'm a journalist, so. Found that. Found the profession that pays less than teaching. But. But I do think, yeah, that's a real thing. Like, you know, guy. You know, usually I'm going to say guy just for tradition sake. That's, you know, that is a lot of the times the case. It is difficult, like, statistically. And there's research on like, yeah, when your wife makes more money than you. Like, that's like one of the big causes of divorce and causes of conflict in the marriage is like needing to feel like you're the man of the house, that you're this, you're that. And yeah, if that's like a reality for you, then you better find a job that makes a butt ton of money or get over it, you know, or whatever. If you want to. If you want to be married to a, to, to a physician who's going to be making, you know, good money. Can't. Yeah, you can't sort of measure your worth or value by that. And for me, like, obviously that's what women have had to do for generations. And so that's like, you know, a little hypocritical to be like, what do you think women have been doing since the beginning of time while their men, you know, while their husbands, like went out and made money and did things and they were, you know, a long time ago, obviously forced to, you know, didn't work as much and they had to find value in their life. It's not like there was worthless. And now, now the society is changing, I think, for the better. The men are being asked to do that same thing. You know, there's obviously adjustments there and that's not how my family was and that's not how I was raised. And so now I got to adjust that. So, you know, I think that's Katie's mom, like big time psychiatrist in Houston. My mom, you know, nurse, but like equal to my dad in terms of like income and contributions. So we both came from houses with strong leading women who were breadwinners. And so, you know, that's a lot of it, but nice.

And how great for your boys to see that whole dynamic.

Yeah, I mean, they're going to be like, I don't think my dad has a job. I think he just kind of picks us up and makes us quesadillas and yeah, pretty much farts around in Mosey Yard. They told me he wrote stories. I never saw any sort of.

Well, this has been great. This has been some great perspectives on stuff that I feel like we haven't ever really touched on on this podcast. And I feel like a lot of people don't talk about. So this has been awesome. Thank you so much for doing this. Do you have anything that, anything you want to plug, any stories or.

Glad. Happy to talk about all this. Yeah, I really had a great time and plug wise, I mean. Yeah. So I, I write for, you know, D Magazine Partners. I'm on the business team. So a lot of my stuff is in D CEO magazine. I write the business, write about the business of healthcare. So I'm definitely in this world a lot. Yeah, you can find me on dmagazine.com.

Thank you guys for listening. Again, this is Generations MD. You know where to find us on TikTok at Generations MD, Instagram @Generations Maryland. And if you're interested in being on the podcast or have any questions, you can email us@ask generationsmdmail.com and we will talk to you next week. Bye, guys.

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