Balancing Motherhood and Medicine with Dr. Toya

For motherhood and being a doctor, both of those things will take every last bit that you can give them. You know, there's. It's an. Kind of a bottomless pit in a lot. Stephanie. Not that you're a bottomless pit, but.

Hi, everybody, and welcome to the podcast. This is Generations md. My name is Stephanie, and I'm joined here by my colleague, Dr. Sarah Davis, who is also my mother. And today we have a very special guest, Dr. Toya. Dr. Toya, if you'd like to give yourself an introduction.

Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I am Latoya Luce Sampson, also known as Dr. Toya. I am an OBGYN, originally from the Twin Island Republic of Trinidad and Tobago in the Caribbean. I trained in Pennsylvania Hospital in Philadelphia, and I have been practicing in Northern California since residency. And I have recently made the transition to coaching for physician moms who are in the early years of motherhood, helping them thrive in medicine. Motherhood without self sacrifice.

We love that. We're so happy to have you here and to kind of talk about all of this and talk about your coaching business and everything, but kind of backing up. How did you get into being interested in medicine, like, and going to medical school? Talk a little bit about your journey.

Yeah. So I was one of those children that just said, I'm going to be a doctor. And I was very determined. That was my personality from since I was very young. I said, I'm going to do something, and then I just did it. So I honestly can't tell you why I wanted to become a doctor, but I do know why I wanted to become an OB gyn. So when I was in secondary school or high school, I heard conversations from my friends about sex and just our bodies as young girls. And I didn't know a lot, but I knew that was not right, the things that they were saying. There's no way. So I said, I'm going to educate myself, and I want to be an expert on women's bodies so that we can really be empowered to actually know what's going on. Because for young girls to be thinking the things my friends were thinking, that's how you get in trouble. Right. So that's what actually sparked my interest. And I have actually never turned back. I didn't see a baby being born until my nephew, when I was already in medical school. So it actually wasn't the obstetrics that got me interested. It was the GYN and very specifically, patient education.

Nice. That's great.

Yeah. I am super passionate about women's Health. And I love that story. I feel like you hear the story a lot of someone seeing a baby being born and then being like, I want to do this, but I think that the gun part is such a huge part of it. So that's really inspiring. You talk a lot about just. Just speaking of having kids. Kind of going into that. You talk a lot about postpartum and, like, your experience with postpartum and how that kind of, like, led you into your coaching business. Can you talk a little bit about your experience, like, having kids and being a physician and then your postpartum experience?

Yeah. So in my first pregnancy, it. He ended up being a Covid baby. At the very end is when the pandemic happened. So I don't know what I thought was going to happen, but I certainly didn't think it was that. And it started off with my baby shower getting canceled and then my mother not being able to come. And for a mom not to be there for her baby's first baby because I am the last was really difficult. But because it was in the context of COVID I assumed it was hard because of COVID So my husband and I had these issues. You know, it was rough, but, you know, I was like, yeah, well, I'm by myself. It's Covid. It's fine. Only when I had the second postpartum experience did I realize that there were actually unresolved issues between us that I paid no attention to. And it would have served me a lot better if I had. And because during that time, I went from being a fully employed physician in a large corporate medicine system to burning out, leaving, and starting to do locums, starting to do online education, and taking on more of an entrepreneurial role. I thought because I was in charge and I had full control of my schedule and I was doing things that I was really passionate about, the experience would be completely different. And in fact, it was not, because I was still comparing myself to other people that were able to just push through and continue. Continue working. I always quote my wedding planner. She was pregnant during my planning, had the baby, and then continued planning. So I always had her in my head. I was like, I could do that. And I'm, you know, I control my own schedule, so it's fine. So I ended up having a very painful, like, physically painful postpartum experience the second time around. And it was also mentally painful because I was putting a lot of pressure on myself, and I was also not getting the support that I needed from everybody else. So it was just A disaster. And it all came to a head where I was so filled with resentment, anger, what I now know as postmodern depression and anxiety that I wanted to leave my family and just go and take a break from everything and everyone. And it was like that sentinel event in my marriage where my husband realized that I was really struggling. And that's when things turned around and we reconnected to, you know, repair our relationship. And then I reconnected with myself to make sure that I was really focusing on what was actually important, which was not the patient education and the presentations for, you know, my advocacy work. It was none of that. It was my body, my mental health. And as I came through, I wanted to help other physician moms in particular, not go through what I went through, because this can happen to any mom. But the added layer and stress and responsibility of taking care of others lives just adds a whole different level of complication that nobody else really gets. And that's why I focus on physician moms. It was initially supposed to be just postpartum and really focusing on that extended postpartum time where it's not just the fourth trimester, which is the first 12 weeks after birth, but the entire year, which is a true medical definition of postpartum. And as I started coaching, it evolved into the early years of motherhood. Because what I realized is a lot of the issues people have, it was set in a foundational way in those early years. So if we can start prioritizing ourselves, if we can take care of our minds and bodies and set boundaries and be okay with asking for help, all of those things when they need us the most, then the rest of your motherhood journey is going to be even better. So that's how I got to what I'm doing right now. And it feels like my second calling, because I do think Ob GYN was my first.

Well, just kind of elaborate a little bit more on that about, you know, what women or anybody can do way before you get to even getting married or having a baby. Like what? You know, what advice do you have for. Well, for people in Stephanie's shoes that are young and you're on your. You're on your career path, and at that point in your life, you're really. You're just thinking about your career and you may have, you know, you have your relationship, and that's all nice, but, you know, that's all good. It's not. You don't necessarily have a plan for how all of that's going to work. So what. What advice do you have?

Yeah, that is a great question. And that's why I was so excited to come on this podcast. Because I feel like a lot of the issues that I had and my clients and colleagues have is because we didn't know, like nobody was having these conversations. And you don't know what you don't know. And there's this socialization that we have, so we think marriage and babies are supposed to be a certain way and it's often romanticized. And then now we have social media, so it's really romanticized. And you think it's supposed to be this one way. So my advice would be to continue having conversations just like this and very specifically and practically to seek out mentorship. So getting a mentor, you know, it's a normal thing. Like if, I don't know if you all are familiar with church mentorship when you're about to get married, it sounds like an old fashioned thing that is like, why would I do that? But there's a reason. I'm not saying go and find a religious organization if you're not religious. But the idea of having people that have gone through it and have healthy marriages, first of all, not pretending like have actually healthy marriages and healthy relationships with their kids and those types of things to tell you what to expect and so that you know what questions to ask and what conversations to have. Because now we, these conversations are being had. But typically, if I think back to before I had a kid, I wouldn't have even known to talk to my husband about some of the issues that came up. Right. So it's really that you don't know what you don't know and making sure the people that you are talking to are not bitter. They're not, you know, they don't hate their husbands, they don't hate their kids. Like, take advice from people that you want to be like. Right. But really having the conversations with your partner and being very clear about your own history and the things that you think, how were you raised and how were you socialized? Is that going to affect the way that you show up as a partner and as a mother or a husband? Because all of those things matter. And joining a life with somebody is a whole thing in and of itself. But then when you throw a kid in there and you've never talked about how the label will be divided or the fact that it will never feel equal or like any of those things, it becomes really difficult if you have never even thought about it before.

Yeah. How do you have those conversations when you don't even know the obstacles that are going to come your way. I feel like I'm young, I'm naive. I don't know. You know, I know, like, people talk about it's going to be hard and there's going to be hard times. And it's like, I feel like there's so many things that I'm just like, I don't even know how I would deal with that situation until that situation comes, you know?

Yeah. And that's. That's the mentorship. That's where it comes from. From. How are you going to know? It's really difficult to expect somebody to know that your husband is going to look at you a couple of days postpartum with the baby in your hands and say, well, we need to figure out an equitable way for sleep. And it's just like, well, well, no, that's actually not going to happen. Like, you're just not going to know. Which is why I am so passionate about my own podcast and having conversations like these because it becomes common knowledge. I'm talking about it because you are having me on here and other people are bringing the conversations up so you can hear and you can do the research that you would put towards anything else. It's like, well, okay, I'm going to get married. What do other people think? What do I need to know? And being active about it? And that is especially for both partners, because a lot of times we focus on us as women and having the mental load of figuring things out and organizing the home. And nobody is expecting men to be having these conversations and doing the research. But it is on both sides. Right. We have to really just change narrative around what it means to be parents and the dynamic in the home if you're going to continue to have women come through medicine and actually be able to thrive. Because when you step back and think about it, this was not a system that was designed for us to be here. Right. It was designed for men who likely had wives at home. And we kind of just fit in because we're amazing. And of course, you know, of course we're good physicians, so. But it's very clear that this was not a system that was made for us. So, you know, doing everything that we can to educate ourselves from both sides so that we can really not have this extra layer of burnout to add to all the other reasons we can burn out from this career.

Yeah. I want to touch on one thing that you said. When you're just talking about, like, your postpartum journey and Talking about kind of justifying it, saying, like, oh, well, it's because of COVID and, like, it's because of this, and it'll be better because of this. I think a lot of people can relate to that on so many different aspects. But I kind of want to talk about, like, the idea that we have in medicine, and we talk about it a lot on this podcast, of just kind of being like, medicine is the only thing that matters. And, like, kind of just this, you know, not taking care of yourself, just kind of focusing on the grind and the work. And, like, you know, if you put your head to it, then you can just do it and not giving yourself compassion. How do you feel? Like that culture, if you experience that culture, affected you. And like, your postpartum journey, that was.

So ingrained in me because I did residency. I know I look young, but I did residency quite a while ago, and it. That was the norm. So I don't even know that I would have recognized that that played a role. Now, having burnt out from my actual attending job, I can see, like, where that played. But in that first postpartum journey, it was just like, how things were. Like, there was no consideration for that playing a part. But it is one of the things that I focus on greatly now because of my Bernard experience. Like I said, I was in a corporate. A very large corporate medicine system. And you described it perfectly, like, you give everything of yourself and you expected to do so, and if you do not, then something is wrong with you. And it blends very perfectly with what the traditional motherhood rules are. So add physician to mom, and you have. You have somebody that is giving completely and really has nothing left. And that's like, one of my core pillars. You know, the thing I shout about the most is that we have to put ourselves first. And I was thinking about this before I came on, because I can see it from the old generation side of needing to have the amount of volume and the experience of being in your training and in that environment for large amounts of time. Right. Because that's what it is at its core is that. Well, you know, I came up through residency when the work hours just became a thing. And the thought then was, well, how will you see as much of the pathology and all of those things? And there is some truth to that, right? Like, the more you're there, the more you're engaged, the more things you will see and learn. But there has to be a balance, right? It's dangerous. And we know this right now. So when I think about it now. And I fully, I'm on board with people protecting their time, with work hours, with all of those things. But it has to be that when you are there, you are there and fully engaged, seeking out the work to do. Because you know, I'm actually not going to be in this situation for very long and there's a very real chance that I will not gain as much as somebody who was there for 60, 80, whatever amount of hours. And I even saw it in my own training program. I had chiefs that as a second year I had to give deliveries up because they made decisions that caused them to not have enough deliveries because they weren't around as much. And she just didn't have the experience. And when people come out, they're less comfortable. So I can see the reasoning, but it's not enough to sacrifice myself or my well being. So, you know, since you are medical student and they're residents and medical students listening, it's like, yes, protect your time and yourself. But when you are there, be there. You know, make, take advantage of every single thing. Because there is something to be said about being up at 2am and just seeing all of the crazy pathology that, that OWA tends to offer.

That's true. We were talking about that on our most recent podcast. Talking about just being there. My point with a lot of that in residency is just I, I don't like it when it's kind of artificially hard or people try to make it hard for you. I remember this one program where the chief resident was calling mock codes in the middle of the night. This attending was telling us that the story and he said that his wife was eight months pregnant and having to like run down these stairs to do MOC codes. I'm like, yeah, okay, that is, that is toxic. But that's very unnecessary right now. If there's a real code, there's a real code. You know, that's like, okay, that's, that's just the way it is. And if you're around long enough, all those things are going to happen. But I think the point is taken that you, you do, you have to put in the time, you have to be there and you have to be engaged while you're there. But you know, I mean, and I think the same is true of being a mom. When you are there with your kids, you want to be involved in doing stuff with your kids. On the other hand, you don't have to there with them every minute. There are some other things you can outsource to other people.

Yes.

Because you hit the nail on the head. You don't have to be there for everything. And to your question about what to ask and what to talk about, talking about your expectations of motherhood and how you think you should show up as a mother and what your partner thinks a mother should do. Because you'll be surprised at some of the things that even as progressive as you may be, come to your mind when you think about the mom. Right. So you don't have to make all the meals, do all the cleaning, do all drop offs and pickups, put them in every single activity. Chances are if you're doing all of those things and you are a full time physician, you are unhappy, run ragged, and the time that you're actually spending with them is not quality time. So I prefer to outsource as much as possible the things that I don't like, the things that I really, they add no value to my life and the relationship with my family. And then I keep everything else. So whatever that may be, and it may be different things for different people. So for me, it's cleaning, it's cooking, it's driving, and you know, I get the rest and I get real present quality time with my kids. If you have trouble with charting, get a scribe. Use AI like different things that you can do so that you can be present and you can also feel like an actual human being outside of all the roles that you have assigned to you.

I totally agree. My husband and I have these conversations sometimes. He's a real do it yourselfer with lots of things. He's a doctor too. And he's, you know, again, he enjoys doing some outdoor work and that type of stuff, which is great. But what I always say is, okay, I'm paying a doctor to clean out my gutters. You know, I don't need to pay a doctor to do that. I can pay somebody else, not a doctor's salary to do some of these things.

Yeah.

And you know, now we're empty nesters. It's fine. He can do whatever he wants with his free time. But when our kids were little and I wanted him there, spending family time and he's out staining the deck, I'm like, that's not, that's not helpful to the family.

Exactly. And I think that's a good way to think of it is like, what is the value of your time? If you want to just use it straight as your hourly rate, I guarantee you that laundry is very expensive. You can get a much cheaper way to do it. Right. And if it is that driving to and from school is valuable to you and your family. You all have good conversations, y' all sing songs, and it's bonding. Then keep that. So it's not a matter of never seeing your children because everything is outsourced. It's just thinking really, like, being real with yourself. What is valuable? What is actually going to make us bond closer? And what can I just give away? Yeah.

I think Stephanie thought that I came to too many of her activities in high school.

No, I mean, like, I. As I'm now at this stage of my life and looking back, I. I have two physician parents, and I didn't really understand the privilege of having them there for every single activity. Yeah, I would be like, guys, you don't need to come this one. Like, it's okay. Like, but it, like, I. I do appreciate it. And it was really like, my dad was my soccer coach and like, all of those things. And not everybody has that, I guess, like, for the people that are trying and can't be there for everything. How do you, like, deal with that guilt of, like, not being able to be there?

That's a big one. The mom guilt is like one of the biggest issues that people have to deal with. And as coachy as it may sound, it really has to do with the mindset and just knowing, like you said as a child, you're like, oh, why are they here? I don't want them here. And just recognizing that your children are going to say a lot of hurtful things because their prefrontal cortex is not developed, it will not be for a long time. And just don't take it personally. And to accept that and to know that a lot of the guilt is self imposed because again, of the ideas that we have about what a good parent is. And that's why being really real with yourself about the expectations that you're putting on yourself and either working through it to get to a point to say, okay, I'm doing this for my family. They're going to be fine. They're going to realize that it was a privilege just like you and be grateful. Or if it is really eating at you, if it is really against your core value of what you think you are supposed to be like as a parent, then make a change. Right. But being in the middle of that, the guilt and the frustration and all of that, it just doesn't lead for a very happy life. So, you know, I'm big on action, so, like, choose a path. And that's where a lot of times I have to work With. With clients just to work through that, because it's a difficult place to be, especially if you don't know that there's another way to think about it.

Well, I think that's true with all those things, and I think it's true for motherhood and being a doctor. Both of those things will take every last bit that you can give them. You know, there's. It's an. Kind of a bottomless pit in a lot of Stephanie. Not that you're a bottomless pit, but you could see more patients, you could do more for each of them. It just goes on and on. And so at some point, you just have to say, no, that's. I'm doing enough. That. That is enough. I'm doing enough as a mom. That has to be. I'm doing enough as a wife. Like, all of those things just. You have to at some point say, like, okay, that's just. That's just got to be good enough.

Yeah. And then if you think about it, if you give so much that you are completely burnt out, you are unhappy, you are sleep deprived, what are you giving them? Like, what quality of care are you giving your patients if you haven't slept? Right. What quality of relationship are you giving your kids if you're snapping because you have 60 charts to close when you're at their game? So when I think about caring for myself, I see it as something that not only benefits me, but benefits everybody around me, and that includes my kids, my husband, my patients, because I can show up as a better mom, physician, wife, when I am taken care of.

Yeah, I just wanted to talk a little bit about coaching. I think that I. That's. That's just a term I've been hearing a lot more lately, and I. It's used in a lot of different ways. And I guess. Can you kind of explain, I guess maybe define it for our listeners and then kind of explain, like, how it's different from things like mentoring and therapy and explain, like, what you do as a coach.

Yeah, so I'll start with what I do as a coach because it is such an unregulated industry. You will get 50 different answers from 50 different people. So that's why I'm going to start with what I do as a coach and how it's different from, as you said, therapy and mentorship. So when you think about therapy, and these are broad strokes, you're looking backwards behind to things that have happened to work through so that you can move forward and, you know, live a better life. I am Solely focused on the forward motion, the outcome orientation. Like to me it is completely different because of the relationship that I develop with my clients. It's very personal and very intimate, especially because I'm dealing with moms in a very vulnerable time. And it is the way that I trained with my coaching mentor who is a relationship and intimacy coach. So again, very intimate and in a way that if you think about it, will be really inappropriate for a licensed clinical therapist. And so that's the other part that is very different is the relationship. You're not going to be removed from the situation and it's actually not going to be as effective if that is the case. I focus on physician moms because it is a deep connection. I can deeply relate to what they're going through. So that's the biggest distinction. But coaching in general, I think of it especially for, you know, doctors where it's more of a, it can be a little bit of negativity surrounding the word or confusion or anything like that. I think of it like a coach for a sport. I think it's very, very similar where you have the star player, like a really talented athlete with all the raw tools inside of them and that's the, for me, the physician mom. And you have a coach that is going to bring out all of their glory, give them tips about building their different muscles, different strategies to get to the goal of being the all star, being the best athlete or for me, living your dream life. Right. So I like to think of it as I'm like a basketball coach. It's the same type of thing. And whereas you mentioned mentorship as well, where it's. That to me is like a more academic thing, again, not as much relationship, definitely forward focus on, outcome oriented. But at least any mentor I have had is definitely not deeply relationship based. So they're very, very different and serve different purposes. And for coaching and even for mentorship, I think it's all about the fit. You, you really have to have a good fit with the person and know that they are aligned with you, even if you don't know where you're going because that's what they're helping you with, that you know that they can get you there. Like you have that faith in that person that is helping guide you and support you. And that's why when people ask for, you know, recommendations or whatever, it's like, well, it depends on what you're looking for and what your goals are. So that's how I, I think about it.

Is coaching also like in therapy, the Therapist doesn't usually like tell you what to do, but coaching you kind of tell them what to do. Do you or do you not?

No.

Okay.

So there is strategic planning and action things, but I help people find their path because especially when you have a person like me where I state my opinions very, very fiercely and boldly, it's an easy thing to think. Well, you're just going to tell me what to do. And it's more that I'm using all of the experiences, the many, many experiences that I have had and pulling on all those tools to then get you to wherever you are going. So a lot of times, and it could be quite annoying, the entire session could be about questions, me asking a question and I don't actually say anything at all because like with that star player with the raw talent, the answers are inside, right? You know, everything is in there. My job is to, to pull it out and to keep that bird's eye view so that when, especially with motherhood, when you just lost and bogged down with all of the overwhelm and stress, somebody else is keeping the big picture, which is the goal that you have in mind so that they can, you know, guide you to where you believe that you want to go.

And so how does it really work? Like how many sessions do you do with people? Or what is just like kind of. I mean I'm sure it's very, very different depending on the client and all of that. But like what, what would be like a typical.

So for me, I do one on one private coaching, there's group coaching, there's all sorts of different things. But I do one on one again, deeply personal and personalized to the individual. And it's three month sessions where we meet every week. And then I also have text coaching access so my clients don't feel like they need to hold everything in until the next weekly session. And especially with motherhood, when you are like up at 2, breastfeeding and you think nobody is around and nobody's going through this and I'm the only one, it's good to have that connection with somebody. So while I'm not on call, I still pretty much answer as soon as I'm available. So there's that ongoing support. So it's three months and then six months and then I do like other personalized, more directed, more like workshops and maybe that's what you're referring to. So because I focus so much on outsourcing, I help people with nanny hiring and au pair matching and then that tends to be less Coaching and more. Well, this is what you do, you know, this is how you vet them. This is how you do your background checks and stuff like that. So that is less coaching, but it's all in service of the outsourcing is to get you the time and the mental space so that you can connect with what you want and be the type of mom and doctor that you want to be. So it's all very much towards the same goal.

Yeah.

Can you talk a little bit more about just your transition from your ob GYN role to your coaching? We talked a little bit about this, but then also like how that has affected your role as a mother as well.

How has it affected my role as a mother? It is so much better. I was just talking to my husband about this and I'm going to answer the first question, but we were both sitting with my kids and they were just bouncing around. I have a one year old and a four year old, so you can imagine how much bouncing around it was. And I turned to him and I said, this could have been really irritating if I was really tired and I was thinking about, you know, clinic and what the office manager said to me and all of those things. So it has definitely helped me be more present and enjoy my children even more. And that's not to beat a dead horse, but that's what outsourcing does. That's what it gives you the energy to tolerate a child running over you and kicking you in your head. Cause that's what they do. But the transition happened very gradually because of my burnout. So I mentioned a couple of times tangentially, but I was employed and started a business and that was unrelated to medicine, unrelated to what I'm doing right now. So it was my journey through entrepreneurship that really helped me realize my value as a physician. And because I think when we are in our circles, sometimes we forget that it is a very big deal and that we are very highly skilled, highly trained people and those skills are very much transferable. And so while I was getting overworked and disrespected at my job and all of these things, the benefits that I got there felt like golden handcuffs. The place I used to work is like the definition of golden handcuffs. Meaning they give you all of this money and all of these benefits, but they treat you really poorly, but you feel like you can't leave because you're getting all these benefits. Right. So through my journey through entrepreneurship, I knew I was not stuck there. Like I knew I could buy for my family in other ways. And I did not need to deal with that. And so I actually left that job with no plan because of this knowledge, I left and I said, I'm going to do locums, which is travel doctoring. And I took a month off, which everybody should do between jobs. And then I started credentialing to become a locums doctor. And then I have been doing that ever since. So doing labor and delivery, delivering babies in the hospital only, no clinic. And with that very reduced clinical schedule, I increased my online presence and really found my love for teaching again, because, like I mentioned, I became an OB GYN for the education piece. So I was able to grow a pretty, you know, moderately successful TikTok account where I gave OBGYN education. And that got me into speaking and doing all of these. These things. And because I had that journey as a business owner and now a speaker, and I was doing interviews and all those things, it was a very easy transition from being. Having that identity as a physician to being a physician entrepreneur and knowing that there are so many other ways to serve. And I always come back to that because even when I was doing, you know, Dr. Toyo, OBGYN, which was my TikTok account, like, I could serve, say, 100 patients a week in the office, or I could have a million people see my videos. And that's education, too. That's helping them, too. That's empowering them to advocate for themselves, too. Right. So it's just another way to serve and do what I feel like I was called to do. And it didn't. It wasn't as stock as, you know, now I'm a doctor full time, and then now I'm a coach. It was very much an evolution. And being an OB GYN is very much a part of my coaching as well.

Yeah, I love that. And I love the idea of just like, like shifting in your career path and what you want to do, because I think the rest of the world is doing that. You know, it's not the same sort of blueprint of I get this job and I work that job forever, and medicine is still stuck in that same mindset because we, you know, we do do so much training, and it's like, okay, this is the thing that you're going to do for the rest of your life. And I really like having these conversations about, like, having other business ventures, like also finding your identity and other things other than just medicine. So I.

This.

That's really inspiring.

Yeah, I love it. Because you find that there's certain things that you like, and then you say, well, just, I just want to do more of that. And you keep doing more and more of the things that you like and less of the things that you don't like. And I think it's fantastic.

Yeah, I think there's a lot of fear and shame almost because we are trained to do this one thing. And that idea that our skills are transferable is not common knowledge. But then also I spend a lot of money, I spend a lot of time, all these things for this one goal. How can I do anything else? My patients need me. Like, all of, all of those thoughts are very valid, but more self imposed restrictions. And then the culture of medicine also adds onto it. So again, like you said, having these conversations to give people options because at the end of the day you just want to be happy. There's people want happy doctors for sure.

How do you manage the whole thing? If I'm a physician, doctor, mom, and I might, and I'm considering like leaving my job as a physician, like, is there situations where you would encourage that versus how do you like encourage somebody to maintain this career that they work so hard for while also being a mom?

What I do is have people connect with themselves. And I know that sounds super vague, but at the core that's what everybody, mom, physician, anybody needs to do is what do you actually want? Just start there and don't think about, well, I can't, how will I? None of that is important yet. Just what do you actually want? And if what you want is to be able to take your kid to some lessons on Thursdays. Okay, well, keep that vision in your mind. And now let's see what in your life needs to change so that that can happen. So that's how that would go. And my goal, because when people hear my story, they think I want everybody to leave medicine because I transitioned. And that is definitely not the case. I want you to do whatever it is that you want to do. If you want to advance in your career in medicine, you have to know how to ask, you have to know how to negotiate and be bold about what you want. And I help people do that as well. So it really is starting with what you actually want, not what you think you should want, not what you think is possible. Just starting with what is actually in there.

And I imagine trying to think about sometimes you have a certain thing that you want right now, but really thinking like, okay, but what about 5 years from now and 10 years from now and 20 years from now? And because I do think that early phase when you're having little babies. Well, where you are, where you. When you have a one year old and a four year old.

Yeah.

I think that that's a time when a lot of women in many different careers start to panic and say, like, I just, I can't do this. Well, the fact is your kids are not always going to be one in four. They are going to be older and their needs are going to be different. And so trying to, like, really look down the road and imagine your life in all kinds of different phases and not just do like, what works for just, just right now.

Yeah.

Anyway, I think that's it.

No, I, I totally agree because I talk about visioning a lot and it's, you know, how do you see your life? And if what you're doing right now is keeping you in that direction, great. Then let's think about strategies to make it not that difficult. Because you're right, this stage is very difficult. But there are things you can do to make it a little bit easier and you don't have to struggle just because it's this early phase.

What can you do to make the husbands do more?

Oh, boy, Listen to my podcast. Yeah, that is a difficult one. And I alluded to it earlier that these conversations are being had by women a lot. Not so much men and women, the socialization is significant because they also don't know what they don't know. And if they saw their fathers acting a certain way, that's how they're going to think that they should act. So if you're already in it and you're married, well, there are ways to communicate and to affect change. But Stephanie, conversations, you know, what do you think a dad is supposed to do in this very specific situation? You know, when the baby is small, you know, do you think a dad should get up and change diapers? What do you think? And really just talking about the expectations and then being like, well, you know, that's probably not going to work for me if you're in it. Just trying to remember that your way of communication matters. And even though it will take everything out of you to speak in a way that does not truly convey your inner feelings of I am tired. Just do what I say. If you want your delivery to be successful. It does take certain skills in communication. And that's a whole other podcast to talk about. But that is like the, the working on the marriage piece is actually another thing that I'm pretty big on, which I'll, you know, allude to a little bit, is that I Believe in putting yourself first, then your marriage and then the kids. I don't think it can work any other way, at least not to be very happy. And part of that is knowing how to communicate when things are very rough, especially like when the kids are young. So, yeah, during our postpartum burnout, that was a turning point for my husband and I because he. I don't think he even realized how much work went into the actual care of the children. So he would say things like, well, I take out the trash, I do everything around the house, and you don't do that much. And I remember being like, what are you talking about? So I can't speak for all men because I can only speak for my husband. It was a true lack of awareness about everything that went into not just keeping the children alive, but running the house. And, you know, we talk about mental load and the invisible load. He had no idea. Like, absolutely no idea. And it's only when it became visible, and it became visible in the context of me seeing that I needed to get out that things really changed. Another reason that I share my story so widely, because I don't want other people to have to get to a point where they want to leave their families for things to be able to change in a way that feels more tenable and sustainable in their house.

Yeah, yeah, you talk about that a lot. Just the mental load and all of that.

Yeah, I didn't have that. I didn't know that term when you guys were young. And then I learned it from tick tock. Like a lot of other things.

Of course.

And it's so descriptive. I'm like, yes, this is. This is what it was, is just. And again. And I know my husband may listen to this. Probably not. He's probably not going to get this far in the podcast, but. But you know, again, he does lots and lots of things. It's just that whole thing of like, okay, something's happening and I've got this big list. And he'd say, oh, you know, well, what do you, what do you want me to do? I want you to look around, right? See what needs to be done. You're a grownup. You know how these things work. You know what needs to be done. And just that whole thing of having that mental, that space in your brain where you are just thinking all this stuff and you're thinking about tomorrow and you're thinking about next week and all that, and you're getting dinner on the table and thinking about your patients and all of that, and it really it is very taxing. And so I don't know. And I have seen some of these things. There's, oh, there's some other fair play games.

Fair play cards.

Yeah. Which I think is brilliant because again, if, if you are doing all of that stuff, he really doesn't see it because it's all being done. I mean, I've been guilty of that in my medical office when stuff just runs smoothly. Well, that's because somebody else was running it smoothly for me. Then all of a sudden they take a day off and I'm always like, yeah, that's job security for you. Because when I'm having to do all that stuff myself, I really realize what you're doing all day. So anyway, yeah, that's why moms have to go on strike periodically.

100%, I fully support that. And I have a client now whose husband has never spent an entire day with their 2 year old. Not in the entire 2 years. Never spent an entire day. And some of that may be how he was socialized. But also I think we have to be honest with ourselves. Are we handicapping them by saying, well, no, everything has to be done this exact way by me. The famous phrase that I said it too was, I am the only one that can. Right? I am the only one that can do this. And that's not true. You're the only one that can do it the way that you like it. But it can definitely be done. So there's work to do on both sides, probably a lot more on the male side. But you definitely have to make your work visible. And I think that's something that all women, especially female physicians, should know. Don't silently do your work. Make sure everybody knows about the work that you are doing. It's not bragging, it's not anything. It is necessary for you to be recognized for your hard work. And I don't want to get on that soapbox. So that's all I'll say about that.

Well, I guess kind of going with that. How did you learn these communication styles, like with your husband? And how did you learn. Yeah, just all of these terms like my mom just mentioned, like she didn't know about these terms, like how did, how did you learn all of these skills?

I'm a very observant person, so that's one. But I've also been coached a lot and just life. I think some things that you go through the biggest vehicles for growth, because that's all this is. Marriage is a huge vehicle for growth. Entrepreneurship is another big one. And Being a public figure, like going on TikTok and creating there is not. It's not for the field of heart. I've definitely had, you know, some trolls and all of those things, but instead of just going there and showing up as the expert, I went there to learn. And I learned a lot about how my field of ob GYN was viewed by regular people. I learned a lot about what communities were feeling and saying, and it made me a better physician when I was doing that. Because when you have that growth mindset, you have this idea that I am a continual learner. It's going to make you more open to new concepts and new ideas, and then you take and take it and integrate into your life so that you keep growing.

I love that. Well, we won't take up too much of your time. Just kind of as we're wrapping up, we always like to ask people this.

What.

I'm sure you have a ton of advice, but what advice, like, would you have for somebody in my shoes at the beginning of this medical journey?

Yeah.

What advice would you have?

Yeah. So we talked more about already about, you know, being present when you are in your training and things like that. Choose wisely, you know, with your partner and not just, oh, well, it's time to get married now. Because I've dedicated my entire childbearing years to medicine and career, and now it's. It's time to do this. This thing. Really not settling, really having deep conversations about your values and what you want out of life, where you see your. Your life going. It is one of the greatest decisions that you would make. Not in, like, a Bridgerton way, where, like, that's all you're here for, but in a very real way. Right. Like, you're sharing your life with this person. You are likely, if that's your choice, going to bring children into the world with this person. So it is a very important decision. And my husband just said that he was recently on my podcast to talk about his side of the story, and he said, at your core, you need to make sure you like the core of the person, because when you're in a terrible time, that's all that's going to be left. And you have to be okay with that core. So you need to actually know it. Right. And there's no rush. There's a little bit of rush on your fertility. It's just a side thing that you should definitely look at freezing your eggs. But it will always be worth it to wait for the right person who is aligned than to just say, okay, well, this is what I'm supposed to do. Clock is ticking. It's time. It will always be worth it.

Well, I love that. That is so empowering and means a lot to hear, and I'm sure our listeners will love hearing that. Mom, do you have anything else?

No, I just, I. I just really want to thank you for your time. It's really, it's so fun to. To talk to you. We really appreciate you being on the pod.

Yeah. If you want to go ahead and plug all of your socials, podcasts, everything.

Yeah.

Yeah. Thank you. I just want to say first, thank you so much. This has been fun. I've never been on a mom and daughter podcast before. I. I love that you all are doing this together. And it. It's a dream, right, to be able to share what you do with your mom and with your daughter in this way. So I really love that and it's nice to see. And so if you want to find anything about me and what I am doing, you start at my website, drtoyacoaching.com so it's d r t o y a coaching.com and the same handle on Instagram. I don't create for TikTok anymore because I had to choose one and toy Lucas Samson on Facebook. And you can find my podcast stethoscopes and strollers on any podcast listening app. I talk about all of these things and also bring on other physician moms to share their stories in early motherhood so that everybody can feel like they are not alone.

You guys know where to find us @Generations MD on Tik Tok Generations MD on Instagram. And if you have any questions or interested in being a guest on the podcast, you can email us ataskgenerations mdmail.com and we will talk to you next week. Bye, guys.

Bye.