From Rock Star to Scrubs: Dr. Avir Mitra’s Unconventional Journey

And then we ended up getting a record deal. And it's crazy because I had actually already applied to med school and gotten in at this point. And I was like, oh, no. Like, I can't go to med school. I have to do this. I knew that I had to do it.

Hi, everybody, and welcome to the podcast. This is Generations Maryland. My name is Stephanie, and I'm joined here by my colleague, Dr. Sarah Davis, who's also my mother. And today we have a very special guest.

His name is Aver Mitra, and he is an emergency department physician, but he's also a contributing reporter to the fantastic podcast called Radiolab. If you are not familiar with Radiolab, you need to listen it because it's just absolutely amazing. And Dr. Mitra has several different episodes that are really some of the best episodes, I think that on that podcast. And so we're really, really excited to be joined by Dr. Mitra today. Welcome.

Wow, thank you so much. I'm happy to be here. Yeah.

Well, as we're kind of diving in and getting started, can you just tell us a little bit about your background and kind of your story of how you went from Radiolab to becoming a physician and all of these things?

Yeah, well, it's. How much time do you have? So, yeah, I kind of have a bit of a strange backstory in that, you know, I was pre med in college, but then ended up doing music for a bunch of years and was like, sort of a musician. I wrote songs. I was playing in a band and ended up doing that for some time along the way. After college, I interned at Radiolab, and that sort of, like, changed. Changed me in a lot of ways. It really opened my mind to podcasts and stuff like that. So, yeah, I did music for a while, and then I went back to medical school. And then during med school, I started doing reporting for a show called the Pulse, which is out of Philly. W H Y y. So it's like the NPR affiliate in Philadelphia. So I did that for a while, and then when I moved back to New York for residency, that's when I started doing stuff for Radiolab.

Wait, so, just backing up there. So were you. Did you have any degree in journalism or anything, or that was just an interest of yours?

Yeah, no, I don't have a degree in that. I was. I was basically pre med in college. Um, so I think really the degree I have in journal, I. I don't even consider myself a journalist, to be honest. I consider myself just a curious guy, you know, and that's Always been my approach. Like, I. I just love to think about interesting topics, really dive into them, and then I just get super excited about things, so I like to just talk about them. If you ask any of my friends, they'll tell you the same thing. So I just translate that into sort of what I do for podcasting.

Well, you know, along those lines. I mean, I think you are a fantastic storyteller. The way on those Radiolab episodes that I've listened to, I just. I think you do such a great job kind of revealing this whole story, and a lot of times it's sort of personal. There's a person involved that's really interesting, and then all of these other things that they accomplish. And so I think you're such a great storyteller, but is that something that's just kind of natural to you, Ben?

You know, I think as I get to get older and start to understand myself, I'm sort of like this. I'm constantly a fight between two parts of my personality. One is this strong scientific personality. I'm also the child of two physicians. You know, I'm. My parents are from India, so they're immigrants. There's this strong tradition of science and medicine in that world, and I sort of am a part of that. On the other hand, I'm a lefty. I've always been artistic. I'm very creative. Like, my mind doesn't work in linear ways all the time. And so I think my whole life has just been this struggle between the two of those ways of thinking. And when they're working together, I'm very happy. When I'm doing too much of one or too much of the other, I get frustrated. So I guess that was a roundabout way of saying, yeah, it's something that kind of does come naturally to me. I really learned this from being a musician. Like, when you write a song, you sort of put yourself into a dark place, like a. Like, okay, picture all black, like the start of a movie. And then what is the first thing you want the person to hear? What's the second thing? What do you want to. Where does it go to? How does it come back to the beginning at the end? Those sort of thoughts are always in the way I think when I write songs. And so when it came to podcasting, it's sort of the same thing. It's like you want to take the listener on a journey, and you don't want to talk to them, you don't want to talk at them. You want to be a part of the journey. With them. You want to be side by side with them, exploring something. And I think. I think I realized somewhere along the way, probably in med school, that science and health and medicine is a perfect vehicle for that type of storytelling, because it's actually. And, you know, this being in med school and being a physician, like, the stuff we're learning is just so fascinating, so interesting. It's just unbelievably complicated and. And there's human struggle in there. There's discovery, there's frustration, there's suffering, there's joy. Like, all these things come together in medicine, really. But so much of the communication about it feels so dry and boring to me. So if you can bring it to life, like, you know, or if you could just kind of. You don't even have to bring it to life. You could just get out of the way and let it be what it is. And there's so much power in that, and there's. It's so fun.

So I guess, yeah, I love that view of things. And I love how you talked about how you have these two parts of yourself, and one of them more creative and artistic, and the other one more scientific. And I think a lot of the times we like to put ourselves in these boxes of, okay, I have to be this way, I have to be more scientific, or I have to be more creative. And I really like how you've identified that these are these two aspects that can work well together. I think, as, like, I'm in med school right now, trying to still figure out who I am, and everyone around me is too. I think that's reassuring to be like, okay, these two things can work together. And I feel like even my mom and I are kind of doing that with this podcast a little bit too.

Totally. Yeah, that's what it sounds like.

Are there ever times when you feel like those two parts of your personality really clash?

Yeah. You know, I think, too, when I was in residency, you know, just the hours that I was working and the amount that I was learning how to do, physically, mentally, emotionally, how to manage lack of sleep, it was hard for me to connect with my creative self during those years. So I tried to do stuff, but it ended up feeling frustrating and not right. And then I ended up realizing, like, you know, when I'm off from residency, I kind of just want to hang out with friends or kind of just want to sleep, or you just do simple things. And so I kind of had to let go of a little bit of that for a while, which was really scary for me because I felt like I was losing a part of myself, and I didn't know if I'd ever get it back. But what I realized was after. After I finished residency, it all just came right back, so it didn't go anywhere, you know, and. And on the other side, you know, there was times when I was on tour as a musician and doing that full time, and I felt. I. I didn't think about it at the time, but looking back, I think I felt a little emptiness there, too. Where I like to do things, I like to think about deeper topics. I want to feel like I'm helping people. And I wasn't feeling that at that time, too.

Yeah. Wait, can you just back up and tell us a little bit more about this being in a band thing? I just. I need more information.

Yeah, so. So from the time I was a kid, I always loved music and was always drawn to it, and I was in a band. I was in, like, a high school, like, emo screamer band when I was a kid. But then after college, I was in a band with some of my best friends growing up, and we started, like, writing music that was in the world of rock, but bringing in some more, like, South Asian influences into it from our cultural backgrounds and stuff. Anyway, long story short, we ended up winning this MTV contest looking for an unsigned band, and it was pretty random that this all happened, but we win this contest, and then we. We performed on Conan as a result of that, and then we ended up getting a record deal. And I. You know, and it's crazy because I had actually already applied to med school and gotten in at this point, and I was like, oh, no, like, I can't go to med school. I have to do this. I knew that I had to do it, and I knew that my parents were going to be so furious. So that was a rough moment, but it was worth it. So I ended up doing that. I moved to the west coast, and then, like, we recorded an album and toured for some time, and then, you know, it sort of ran its course. And then I. Then I realized, you know, then down the line, I was like, okay, I'll go to med school now.

So do you had it, like, reapplied? You have to retake the MCAT and all that?

Yes, this is. You're bringing up some PTSD for me, but, yes, absolutely. Yeah, I had to. So I took the MCAT the first time, you know, applied, did all those interviews, put on the old suit, you know, and then I had to do that all again. So I Remember, like opening all these like study books. I guess it was like Princeton Review I took or something for the MCATs. And I opened the book and I'd see my handwriting, like with all these notes of things and I just completely forgot. I was like, I can't believe at one point I used to know those things and I had to like learn them all again. Wow.

Why did you decide to do that? Like, why, like really? What made you be like, okay, this is. I want to go back and actually pursue this medical degree.

Yeah, that's a good question. I think. You know, for me there had always been a lot of pressure from my family to go into medicine. I'm an only child, my parents are immigrants and in our tr and they saw that I have an affinity to it and that I would be good at it, so they identified that in me. But when I got into med school the first time, I was sort of iffy about it, to be honest. I was like, maybe this will be good. I don't know. Then I did music and I really grew up a lot through music and learned a lot about myself. Got to sort of come out of my shell, experience things differently and then realized that like the world of entertainment is a bit vapid and it is very self centered and that can become tiring after a while. And I realized that like actually I, I want to do something that makes a difference. I want to help people. And I started just thinking about, okay, I wanted, I knew I wanted to go back to school and do something. So I was considering all these different options and I was like, well, if you think about medicine, I'm a very extroverted person. I love talking to people, I love hearing their stories. I'm scientifically minded. I. Yeah, if you put a, a challenging diagnosis in front of me or some sort of mystery I can't help myself from, want to just get to the bottom of it, you know, that's my personality. So I was like, well there's that. And then this is a great way to help people. So when I thought about it, I was like, actually this, all of these things come together in this field in a perfect way. Which I guess sounds obvious. Like someone could have told me that when I was like 10, but it just didn't click with me until I got a little older.

What was that timeline between the like the first acceptance and the, the, the second acceptance? Like how many years are we talking about?

It was, let's see. I. It was like six or seven years.

Oh, wow.

No, maybe less. Maybe like yeah, five or six years.

That's a long time.

Yeah. Yeah. So I applied and then got in. Like, I didn't apply in college. I applied after I graduated college. Like, I started working and then was, like, taking the MCATs and stuff and doing music at the same time. Then I got in and then, yeah, got. Got the record deal and that lasted a few years, then applied again.

I don't know any other doctor who's had a record deal.

That sounds so cool. Yeah, very random.

How do you feel like these different aspects of your personality led you to wanting to do emergency medicine?

Hmm. So emergency medicine, to me, when I was on my rotations, I found myself kind of liking everything. And so that was challenging because I'm someone who I can put myself in a lot of people's shoes and really see and I get passionate about things. So that was hard because I was like, yeah, like psychiatry. Like, I could totally see myself doing that. Family medicine, orthopedics, like ent. I liked. I liked components of all of them, and I really could see myself enjoying it. But I think when I got to emergency medicine, I found that I was able to play amongst all these different organ systems and play in the relationships between them in a way that I found really fun. You know, I love looking at an EKG and being like, the way that EKG looks. Looks like there's increased intracranial pressure in the brain like that. I love that combo. I think physiology was probably my favorite subject in med school, when I think about it. And so I like the interplay. I also like the problem solving aspect of it. Being a musician. There's an element of craft to that. I. That I like. You know, I played guitar every day growing up, and something that felt so physically challenging eventually feels like second nature. And you could have a conversation while you're doing it, you know, And I. So there was a certain procedural element that was a little bit there in emergency medicine that I also enjoyed. And so it brought together all those different things. And then also the lifestyle of emergency medicine appealed to me because it's sort of shift work, and you can work, you know, you're. You're not like. Like my father's plastics. He's a surgeon, and he. I mean, this is also his personality, but he sort of works every day religiously since I've been born, you know, and I, like, I would feel a little bit stifled by that. I like to have creative projects on the side or pursue ideas or travel or stuff like that. So I think it just worked in A bunch of different ways.

You know, you just mentioned emergency medicine and I just always think about how there's, you know, sort of a lot of burnout with emergency medicine. Do you think that having this other interest, this other part of your life, having music of insulates you a little from that burnout?

Absolutely. I, I, I can't imagine what it would be like for this to be like all I think about. So I think, yeah, having outside interests, having a well balanced life is important. Having meaning to what you do. You know, I'm sure you feel this way doing the podcast. It's like you, you might be at work and you might, something might come up on an otherwise tedious day and you'll be like, ooh, that could be great for the podcast. You know, it sort of, sort of gives a meaningful to what you're doing, allows you to zoom out and think about the big picture. I think the other component of burnout that people feel in emergency medicine is we really are the safety net for this entire health system that is so unbelievably mismanaged, corrupt and broken. And so if you work in a specialty where you can hide from that, you have your clinic and you see the patients you want to see, when you want to see them, you can say, you can abstractly say, yeah, health care is messed up and that's too bad. But like when you're in the emergency department, you're literally seeing it every day. You're seeing how so many swaths of human beings don't get care or they, you can't even get someone a pair of shoes. You know, these simple things that could easily be solved by, you know, a little bit better organization or whatever the, you know, whatever. You're sort of always up against that. So people can become very jaded. But I think I sort of, that's sort of something I embrace about the specialty. That's kind of what I liked is that like, I don't want to be the, like, I want to get my hands dirty. I want to try to make a difference and I know how messed up the world can be and that's like what I want to do. So.

That'S great. That's, it's, that's a great way of like reframing it. You know, it's very easy for those things to beat people down. And so it's great to reframe it and say, well, yes, I know this, this is messy and, but this, this is where I make a difference. Think that's, I think that's Great philosophy.

There's a quote I heard that was like, don't let good be the or don't let perfect be the enemy of the good. You know, and that really, I think about that a lot because, you know, there are days where I feel frustrated that I didn't get a certain outcome for a patient or something, but it's like. Or the system doesn't work in this way. But I try to focus on one thing that went really well each day, you know, even if it's something small, it's like the opportunity to help one patient a day, one person a day. That's something that most people don't get in a week. You know, if you are sitting behind a computer working on an Excel sheet, you know, you may finish your whole week and be like, I don't know what I really did, or if it makes any difference. Every day we're seeing like, you know, so many patients. And so I see perfectionists getting burned out. And that's the problem with it, because medicine selects for and breeds perfectionists.

Yeah, 100. I mean, I see that. I feel like even just as I started med school, so many people come in just having this type a perfectionist mindset. And even just like after the first exam, you know, not feeling so great anymore and being able. Just having to like, get past that and move forward is really tough for. I mean, even for me. How do you feel like you've been able to, like, maintain this optimism? Like, even working in an emergency department in New York City?

Well, don't get me wrong, there's days where I'm like, ah. Like I'm so annoyed. Or some days where I'm really happy, but I don't know. I mean, another part of. I guess my career so far has been teaching a lot. So when I finished residency, I kind of lucked out and was able to be like a clerkship director right off the bat. So I was teaching med students. And that was really fun too, because I kind of got to see things through their eyes and craft their experience in the emergency department and sort of frame things in a way. And it's almost like when you're teaching something, you're learning it at the same time. So it really reinforced all these different concepts for me that I kind of knew. But like, when you're really trying to teach it, you're like, do I know this? You know, and then student, like, I mean, I'm sure you do this as a medical student, first year, like, they'll ask such obvious questions, but like, or they'll ask questions that are. That I'm like, I don't know why I never thought of that, and I don't know the answer to it. So it challenges you in a way that I think is fun, but also, like, I would talk. I would talk to them about the history of emergency medicine the first day I had them, and I. I gave sort of an orientation lecture where I would talk about, you know, this is a specialty that started in 1970, which is, like, not that old compared to other specialties. And. And it started off at this small idea, and now half the country, literally half the population of the US Goes to an emergency department at least once a year. I mean, it's incredible how. How much it's grown. And so it's still. There's still so much we're trying to figure out, and it's still such an. It's the wild west down there in the er. And so when I frame it that way and when I'm telling them that and we're talking about it, it sort of frames it that way in my mind a little more. But I guess what. What I. Where I started was to say that, like, I think teaching has been a big part for me of, like, bringing meaning to what I do. And then the podcasting is sort of just like communicating and talking about it, I think keeps me optimistic.

Yeah. Well, along those lines, that the most recent Radio Lab episode that you were on was really fantastic. I mean, the one where you talk about cpr, which is. I mean, I found it very impactful. Can you just take a min. For our listeners who haven't heard that episode to. To just recap a little bit about. About what you. About the concepts in that podcast?

Sure. So, you know, that's something that I think for maybe your listeners would be obvious, but when I talk to the general public about cpr, there's such a chasm there. And that excites me because, I mean, even when I was talking to the producers of the episode, they're like, okay, so this is a show about heart attacks. I'm like, no, no, no. It's a. It's a show about cardiac arrest. They're like, yeah, yeah, heart attack, cardia. Know. So there's. And if you ask a general person, like, what is a heart attack? What is cardiac arrest? You know, they. They wouldn't know the difference. Not because they're dumb, just because we do a bad job of talking about these things. And so I was. I knew there was so much interesting stuff in there. And then at work every day, I see patients come in who had a cardiac arrest. And then if they had just gotten 5, 10 minutes of CPR in the field, I could have saved them. But we can get their heart back when they get to us. But if they miss that window, then they're, you know, they have anoxic brain injury. They're brain dead. And so seeing that over and over again, I'm like, ah, that's very frustrating. And once the patient and their family goes. Once the family goes through it, they get it. And they're like, well, next time this happens, I would know. And I'm just like, man, that's. That's so sad and so frustrating. And part of the. Part of the frustration I have is like, I love the idea of patient privacy. I think that's important. But there are so many stories and that people, patients and their families, and I would love to share about these experiences that I think could help. And that was a big one for me. So I knew. I saw all that, and I just became really interested in it. And then. And I know, you know, even CPR classes, when I take them, I think are too jargony, too complicated. It's all about getting a card. So it's like, if you don't have a card, can you not do this? And. And it's just, you know, when you think about. It's just dismal outcomes for cpr. Nobody does it. So anyway, I thought I could really make a difference by talking about it and just, like, breaking it down into simple concepts and bringing a few poignant stories in.

Yeah, no, I thought that was really helpful, and I completely agree. Used to drive me crazy. I was a lifeguard for many summers, and we always took the CPR class. And I remember I'd finished the class, and I'd think, I don't know if I. I actually feel like I know less at this point after completing class, because it was like, okay, at that time, you still did the breaths. And so it was like, 15 compressions to two breaths.

Yeah.

You know, I was like, you know, just forget all that. Just, you know, do compressions on their chest. I mean, and of course, now you don't have to do the breathing part, too, but, like, it doesn't really matter. Yes. There's a certain beat that you kind of want to do, but anything is better than nothing. And the I. When I was in residency also, and we were real nervous about, you know, running our first code, and I remember one of my attendings saying, you know, the person's already dead. You can't hurt them at this point. You know, just. You've got to. You know, you're. You know, your ACLS algorithm, it's in there. But just, you know, anything you do is better than nothing. They're already dead at this point. You've got nothing to lose. So I think that. I think that's really important for people to think about when they just sort of panic or freeze. This person's laying there, you know, whatever you do is going to be better than them just sitting there. And so I think that's. I think it's great to be getting that message out to people, just talking.

About it seems like you have such a full life outside of medicine, which I think is so inspirational to me as somebody going through this and a little bit scared about, like, losing myself and my identity just because I see that so much. You know, you see people go into medicine and this is their whole thing, and then they burn out, and their whole identity is first, like, you know, academic validation and then, like, being a doctor, and then, you know, and then that's not fulfilling, and then, you know, they're not happy. And I guess. Do you have any tips for, like, we have a lot of listeners who are medical students and people in my shoes. Do you have any tips for people, like, maintaining their identity outside of medicine, maintaining their hobbies and their passions and all of that?

I'll say that I'm still someone who's figuring it out, too, so I'm. I don't want to come across like the guru of it, but I can very much relate to what you're saying, and I really felt that way, too. I think it's so cool that, you know, for your generation coming up, like, you're making podcasts about this and talking about it, because I went to school, like, 10 years ago, med school, like, what I started 2011, so not that long ago. But, like, we weren't talking about it as much as you guys are, so I think that's awesome that you're identifying that first. It's being mindful about it, and you have to protect it in some way. You have to. You have to always try to protect that because, you know, no one's going to protect it for you. There's a lot of these, like, false gods out there, I think, you know, and I'm still. Still seeing that myself. But, like, there's this, like, academic track that you can take, and there's good stuff in academia, and I enjoy. I enjoy it. I Like, and really enjoy teaching and stuff like that. But like you said, that's if you just pursue that all the time for a lot of people, it won't make them feel happy. It won't, it won't get them where they're going to go. That promised land that you think about is, is naturally not there. And also with money too. I think having money is important. But I see a lot of students like comparing salaries, like I'll make like 30,000 more on average. This is 30,000 more, 50,000 more, a hundred thousand, 200,000 more. Like, I don't know. It's funny for me to say this now because it's like I spent so much of my twenties being broke, but now once you do have money, you're like, okay, I have money. Like, it's good, it's really great. I mean, but you don't like, you're not like celebrating every day because you have money, you know, so there are these false gods out there. Not to say that they're not things you should think about, but you shouldn't worship them, I guess is what I'm saying. So yeah, how do you, how do you find the things that you're passionate about and stick to them? I think for everyone it's a personal journey. Don't be afraid to carve your own path. I think about like someone from my dad's generation who's. My dad's a surgeon and when he was growing up you could be a surgeon, but other people that had jobs, like they'd be an engineer or they work at a factory, like they still did those things for their whole lives and then they get a pension. The rest of the world has changed from that where people aren't defined by their jobs in that way. They may work for 10 years here, 10 years there. They're not going to just like be a, you know, people are jumping around, they're switching careers because the world has just evolved in that way. But medicine being consistently like sort of rigid and calcified in some ways is not like that. So we have a generation, our generation that's going through this field and thinking of it as this like thing where it's like, oh, I do this forever or I do it in this way, but like nobody else thinks of it that way. So I think that disconnect, where we're still thinking in this old school mentality can lead to burnout, can lead to like unhappiness. Especially when the rest of the world has moved to a more fast paced way of like, living their lives and working. One other thing I would say about that is this. I had to learn the hard way, but, like, don't be afraid to lose some of that connection to your passions for a little while. For me, it was in residency where I. I just did not have the energy to do it, and it was out. It was upsetting to me, but the more I'd fight against it, the worse it got. So then it's. At a certain point, I was just like, you know what? I'm in here for three years. Let me just accept that and really embrace what this is, which is. This is an apprenticeship. This is me learning a very physical and mental craft. So let me just fully embrace that rather than trying to mitigate that so I can do something else. It's only limited in time. So, okay, I'll do this for that time, and then afterwards, I'll have more time.

Yeah, no, I like that. And I think that's good to remember and important because I feel like not only is there the pressure to, like, maintain your identity outside of medicine, and I'm trying to, like, keep my hobbies and all this, but then if I. If I do, I don't. Then there's kind of that shame and I feel bad, and then it's like, oh, no. Like, I'm not. I'm. Who am I? But I think I. I've talked about this with my friends, too. It's like, time will continue and, like, I will continue to change, and, like, I'll have less time at some points, and I'll have more time at some point. So that is reassuring to hear that. Like, yes. You know, there's going to be times where maybe I'm not doing the things that I thought I was going to be doing. But I think, like, as I continue to grow and shift, like, falling into shame for not doing those things is not healthy either, so.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Need to have some grace. Well, I felt like when I was going through that, honestly, like, having other interests outside of medicine was almost frowned upon. It's like, no, this is who you are. You're a doctor, and if you want to do other things, well, that's kind of like. You're not really serious about this.

Yeah. You're not. Are you in it or out? You know?

Yeah, yeah. Like, you had to be, like, fully committed. This is who you are. And, you know, and unfortunately, then you get people who would say, well, okay, never mind. If I can't do both of these things, well, then I will just walk away from Medicine. And you know, obviously if people choose to do that for whatever reason, that's okay. But that to me is really heartbreaking when they put so much time and energy into it just for like not being allowed to have that space of being able to be passionate about other things besides just medicine.

Yeah, exactly. And like, do patients like that? No, like patients don't like when you're this robotic, unrelatable human being either. So, yeah, the system is calcified. I think, you know, there's certain specialties where that might still be the case to an extent. You know, from what I, from what I see from my friends and different, you know, all my friends from med school, we went into different things. So that's another reason why I think I picked emergency medicine. Not that it's the only one, but there are some fields where, you know, there's a little bit more open mindedness to that type of stuff. And so, you know, I did something like that. You know, I was also thinking about plastics because my dad is plastics. But I, and I liked it. But I, I, I was thinking about the lifestyle, the length of residency. No, all those different things factored in for me.

Was your dad disappointed that you didn't do plastics?

Yeah, but you know, that's the thing about having Indian parents. They're always disappointed for some reason. You know, you just got to figure out what it is this year.

Are you happy with the specialty that you chose?

Yeah, I like it. It's working for me right now. You know, I think, I think there's pros and cons. I'll tell you what I like about it, what I'm struggling with at this point in my career because now I'm like five years out of residency. What I like about it is it's intellectually challenging. I'm not the guy who knows everything about the retina. Right. Like I, and I'm sure there's challenge there too, but for me, there's so much I can learn. You know, like every field is updating every, you know, so often and I'm sort of intermixing with all those fields. So I'm constantly, you know, they say emergency medicine is like the second best at everything in the hospital. So there's a little bit of like little brother vibes that we have where it's like why I want to be the best. You know, I want to learn just as much as a cardiologist knows about, about how to read this echo. I want to know just as much as Gyne does about how to, you Know, diagnose the torsion or whatever. So that keeps me hungry. Every day I'm learning something. I think the fact that my schedule is shift work, and I work in general a few days a week, I'm. I'm off more than I'm on, essentially, is great, you know, like, I'm going. I'm traveling next week. I don't know where I'm going yet, but I'll figure it out later today. But, you know, like, that's going to be great. I'm going somewhere, and then I'll come back and be excited about work. I think what's hard about the job is that it is shift work in that, you know, I never appreciated routine, but now I do. There's something really nice about having a routine, knowing that you'll be home at X hour every day and you can, you know, see your friends or see your family at this time or, you know, that you can join a rec league and you can meet up every Tuesday. Like, I don't have that. Every. Every week is something very different. And sometimes I'm sleeping late, sometimes I'm waking up early. And so it kind of messes with my circadian rhythm sometimes and messes. And it's a lot harder to be social in that I have to plan things out sometimes. Having said that, like, can I really complain that, like, for example, this week I'm working tomorrow, Saturday and Sunday. So, okay, not the best days of the week to work, but I'm off, like, Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, you know, so, yeah, it's a good job, I think, and it pays pretty well, and it's so in demand. Like, I'm getting. I. Even while we're on this call, I got a call from a recruiter that I just silenced because they're constantly calling you to be like, we'll fly you out here. Can you work here? Can you do this? And you can show up anywhere in the country or some places in the world and just, like, pop into an ER and start helping people instantly. So, yes, I like it, basically.

Okay, I have one more question. How much podcasting are you doing?

Oh, that's a good question. So it's constantly in flux. But, you know, when I graduated college, I heard an episode of Radiolab when I was just driving my car. I emailed them and I was like, I mean, it blew my mind to hear that episode. You know how it is. Like, there's a combination of music and science and curiosity. And I was like, did they make this for me? Like, this is for Me. So I emailed them, and it was like, early days, so Jad was just like, yeah, come by. So I came by, and then I started interning for them. Then I got a record deal. So I ended up being busy with music, but I always kept in touch with them. When I was in med school, I was in Philly. I heard a show called the Pulse that was doing, like, science stuff, and I think I was feeling a little frustrated. It was second year of med school, and I was just kind of tired of this, the cycle of test taking and stuff. So I emailed them to be like, I would love to do an episode for you guys. I have a recording studio at home, and I used to intern for Radiolab. They didn't email me back, so I figured they. Maybe they weren't into it. I kind of waited a few months, and then I heard another episode, and I was like, you know what? Let me just try again. So I. I just forwarded the same email. I was like, hey, just checking in. And they emailed back right away. They're like, oh, yeah, sorry. Like, come by. So then, next thing I know, like, came by there, pitch them, like, five ideas. First episodes, they took one of them. I made it into a story, and then I was like, off to the races then. So then that was super fun for me because I had this outlet through med school where I could, like, make stories. And I was on. You know, I was on a rotation, and I talked to some attending who I thought had this interesting story to tell, and I'd be like, can I make a radio story about you? And then we would do that. So then, as an attending, really, it. Radiolab came back into the focus during COVID because I just finished residency and now Covid's happening and I'm in New York City, and it was like, pure madness. So then Jad texted me, and he was like, dude, like, we need to do something. Like, you're in the middle of history right now. You're. You need. We need to document this. And I was like, yeah, I guess so. So I didn't know how to really do it. So he was just like. I mean, I didn't really get permission from the hospital, but I just started, like, putting my cell phone in my pocket, like, on record as just. I went around, started doing stuff, and I. And I trusted Jad. I knew that he wouldn't, like, you know, he. He wouldn't do anything to violate any privacy. We could edit it later, but we used all that footage and sort of made a Podcast about COVID and what it was like to be like, you know, March, April, may in if. 2020 in ER there. And so ever since that happened, and that kind of did well. Like, I had this. Like, I was able to do more and more, so I just keep ramping up. So I just keep pitching them stuff. Yeah, so we want to do more live stuff. We want to do more podcast episodes. And then through that, I've been able to do kind of other things. I wrote a chapter for a book and did, you know, did other things. So it's sort of. It seems to be gaining a momentum of. And life of its own, but it's really fun for me. It's enjoyable. Some. Some weeks can be pretty busy, though. But overall, like, I'm. Yeah, I want to keep pushing that.

Yeah, I love that. Well, go ahead and plug all of your things, all your podcasts, your radio lab, anything else, if you want to plug.

Okay, sure. So, yeah, I mean, I, you know, I currently am an associate professor at nyu, but I do podcasts for Radiolab. I've done some podcasts, a bunch of podcasts for the Pulse, so you can always find those online. That's on why I wrote a chapter for a book called Nerd Night, which does these live events across the country and the world where you can talk about interesting topics. And some of those got compiled into a book. So I wrote a chapter for that book. And yeah, I'm on social media. You know, I just. I just started a TikTok channel just to experiment. So you're like the first person I'm telling this to. But yeah, I have a little TikTok, you know, Instagram, all that stuff. And if any of your listeners want to talk about, you know, want to reach out to me to talk about stuff, I'd be happy to talk to them anytime.

You know where to find us on Instagram @Generations MD. TikTok, Generations MD. And if you have any questions or are interested in being a guest on the podcast, you can email us ataskgenerations,maryland mail.com and we will talk to you next week. Bye, guys.

Bye.