GUNNER SUMMER

And I wanted to do something that I thought was actually going to benefit me and help me grow as a person a little bit.

Oh. Not just to be a better doctor, but to be a better person.

Yeah.

It's not just a what, what, what?

No.

Must be good doctor. That's all that matters.

Hi, everybody, and welcome to the podcast. This is Generations md. My name is Stephanie and I'm joined here by my colleague Dr. Sarah Davis, who's also my mother. Welcome.

Hey. Okay, so it's summertime. What's going on?

It's summertime. Yes. We talked a little bit about this a couple weeks ago about what I'm doing with my summer, but I kind of want to come on here and talk about it again and talk about specifics about kind of what happens after your first year of medical school in this Ms. One summer. So if you don't know, traditionally after your first year of medical school, you get a summer. Not every school does this, but I know when you went to medical school it was like that, right?

Yeah, yeah. I think I then taught swimming lessons.

That's what you did.

Yeah, I think so, yes.

Okay.

Well, things have changed.

Yeah. Well, now this summer has kind of turned into where a lot of students want to get research.

It's turned into Gunner Summer Summer.

I kind of want to. I'll first talk about specifically about like options and what students typically do with their summer. And then I want to talk about what I'm doing with my summer, which I think is like a little bit different, a little bit better. Okay, well, so, yeah, so pretty much essentially there's two main options, two routes that people go. Again, it's about a 10 week summer. The first option, which is what a lot of students do is a lot of schools offer these summer research programs. And the idea is it's kind of supposed to be a mutually beneficial thing. Right. The institution is able to get students to come and work in their research labs.

Free labor.

Yeah, well, I mean, it is. It can be paid. They do have funding, so it can.

You can get paid.

Yeah, there's like different, you know, just basic, like research funding so you can apply and get. And get funding. So most people do get paid for these, but you know, they're able to get the labor, you know, in their research labs and then the students are also able to get research experience. Right.

And maybe some publications.

Yes, exactly. The idea you get publications, you at least get like a presentation. At the end of the summer they'll have like some sort of symposium and like you get to make a poster and you know, do that. So yeah, that's like traditionally what a lot of students do. And I remember it was probably like October into my. So like about like two months into my first year is when people were already talking about this summer. There's a lot of pressure to sign up for this program to try to find a research research mentor. And people are already talking about research, research, research, because the kind of the idea they're like, well, we have this time in the summer, you know, if I can just get do a project then, then I won't have to worry about getting research done the rest of the school year. Right?

Yeah.

So yeah, that's the first option. Another option is preceptorships. So this, I did not know what this word meant. I was really confused about the whole thing. Essentially it's like an internship like you would do in college for a summer, but you're working. Essentially you're doing what you would be doing during your third year rotations. So you're going in, you work with a doctor and it's kind of dependent, but essentially like, you know, you're seeing patients with them, you're shadowing them a little bit. You're kind of just.

But doing like a little more than shadowing, right?

Yes, yes, you're doing more than shadowing. Again, like you would be doing on your clinical rotations in third year. So doing history and physical, seeing patients, talking through different like diagnostics and all of that sort of stuff. Again, that's kind of dependent on who you're assigned to and stuff. I don't know how it is in other states, but in the state of Texas there's three types of preceptorships you can do. You can do internal med, family med and pediatrics. And these are all state funded. So if you wanted to do a family med rotation, if you're interested in family, then you can sign up through this portal and they'll either. And you say, okay, I want to do. I think the minimum is two weeks and the max is like five weeks. You, you can say, okay, I want to do a four week preceptorship in Houston. And they'll match you with a family med doctor who also wants to do a four week, who wants a student to be with them for four weeks.

You might get somebody like me. I've got a student coming in a few weeks.

Oh, do you actually?

I do.

Okay. So yeah, you can do that. Or like what I did is you can find like a family medicine doctor, internal med, doctor and say, hey, do you like, can I be your student? And then they can also sign up and you can get matched through there. So again, that's kind of like you get a stipend, which I didn't realize. I don't get that till September. They said, oh, wow. Yeah. But. But anyway, you get paid based on where you're doing the rotation and also how many weeks you're doing it. And they'll give you, like, kind of just a sum of money for that. Again, I don't really know. I assume it's similar in other states, but I don't really know exactly.

And I would have never known if it weren't for that. The students that were working with me were actually getting paid to work with me. It's like, oh, okay. I thought they were just doing that because they really wanted to learn stuff from me.

What's the incentive on your side to do something like that?

Out of the goodness of my heart.

Okay.

I know. Yeah. Once in a while I see these things and people are like, you know, do you ever get paid for being a preceptor? And pretty much like, no, you don't. I know. Which is, you know, part of. It's like, oh, okay, you can do that. But, you know, it does take some time to do it. You probably would have a few more options if you actually paid people something. But anyway, I mean, I guess on the other hand, we're doctors. We. We don't need a little stipend. But, you know, yeah, it is. I just do it. I just do it out of the goodness of my heart.

Yeah. I don't know. If it's like. Then you can be like, oh, I. I'm a. I don't know if that looks good on, like a CV or something.

Right. Because I'm pretty concerned about my cv.

Well, not you. Not you, but other people who are more in academics. If they're like, oh, I'm a. I don't know. I'm a teacher. I have students.

Yeah, it could be. They do. They do some stuff for you. You can earn CME for doing it. Oh, yeah. And then they also. They told me I could go for free to this big family medicine conference last year because, you know, I did it last year, too, but I couldn't go to the conference, so I was not able to, you know, get anything out of that.

But yeah, so those are the main. Those are kind of the main options that you're given. But really, you can do anything that you want. You don't have to do anything for the summer. The first year ends, and then, you know, when your second year starts and you really just have these couple months to really again. Yeah, you can. You can do whatever you want again. Going back to when I was talking about in October, how there was just a lot of pressure, people talking about what they did with this summer, I think. I think it's just this mindset of, like, I have this time. Like, I gotta make the maximum use out of this time. I have to get everything done. I need to get this time again with this, like, delayed gratification. It's like, okay, I need to work really, really, really hard. All right, now, all through med school, all through this, and then. Then I'm gonna be happy.

Then I'll have it made in the shade.

Yeah. Like, okay, I need to get my residency application, like, pristine and perfect so then I can get into the specialty I want to, and then I'll be happy.

It's like, you know, the arrival fallacy.

Yeah, it's. I don't know. I felt so much of that research is really, really important, and I did a lot of it in undergrad, and it. You know, it's important for people to do it. And I do think that it's a good opportunity for the school to get these students to help in their research labs, so then we can, you know, get research done and.

Yeah.

Make progress in science. So I don't think that's. I don't think it's a negative thing that the schools want students to do that. But I was just kind of thinking about my summer and how I wanted to, you know, I obviously want to help my residency application. I wanted to make a little bit of money. I wanted to travel, and I wanted to do something that I thought was actually going to benefit me and help me grow as a person a little bit.

Oh, not just to be a better doctor, but to be a better person. Yeah. Well, what.

No.

Must be good doctor. That's all that matters. Yeah.

It's like, okay, sure. I just don't think pipetting in a research lab all summer is gonna help me grow.

Oh, your patients are really gonna ask you that. They're like, okay, well, when you're pipetting, what did that tell you about my diagnosis?

And some people will say, okay, this conversation about research, like, that's kind of annoying that you're speaking about it like that. But so many people that I know that are doing these summer research programs, they're trying to just. They are just trying to get a publication they are just trying to get something on their cv and it's like, like a lot of people are doing remote research which, okay, you're going to organize an Excel sheet all summer and that's going to help you be a better doctor. It's kind of like it. And again, these people need these things to happen. But it's not like everyone who's doing research this summer is doing it because they really care about research and they know they're doing it to put it on their resume.

Yeah, yeah. It's kind of like when, like the pre med stuff, right. Like you had to, there were certain things that, you know, people would always say that, like, well, what do I, what do I need to do to check all the boxes so that then I can get into medical school? And you know, you kind of try to tell people not to check the boxes, but at the same time you do have to check the boxes. So, you know, when people are doing those things, you want it to be an experience that they actually are gaining something personally from. Not just to write down, but there are so many of those things that you do have to do so that you could say, I love helping people and that's why I did all this volunteer work. And you know, again, you probably do get something out of doing those things. But, but yeah, I think now the good thing, if you, if somebody is doing research and they kind of find a good mentor. Yes. Then I think that that is beneficial to them for sure. You know, when you get to kind of work closely with somebody and a.

Lot of people are doing clinical research or things that they're interested in. And I'm not saying, I'm not putting everybody into a bucket and I'm also doing research this summer in a different way. So like, and I'm going to get to that. But I'm just saying in general, I think just starting out, when I was thinking about it, I was like, well, I don't want to just try to find a mentor and do a project just to do it. I actually, you know, I want to see what I want my summer to look like and again, how I can maybe benefit myself as a person rather than just my cv.

Well, the other thing I want to inject in there, October of your first year, you don't really know and you shouldn't know what you want to specialize in. And so, you know, a lot of people, they're like, okay, well I want to do research in whatever field I eventually want to go into. Well, you have no idea what that is. And so I kind of.

I.

That's one of the things that I don't love about that, is that, you know, one of the pieces of advice that everybody tells you is when you go into your rotations, go through each one with an open mind and think, okay, maybe I'm going to be an ob gyn, Maybe I'm going to be, you know, a pulmonologist, whatever it is. But the problem is you've already. You start to pigeonhole people when you are making them make these decisions so early on. So that's. That's the part I don't love about it. But again, you know, I was just teaching swimming lessons to kids, so it was really very. It was very different.

Yeah. I don't know, like, historically, why did they do that first summer? Because again, now it is so, again, institutions can get people to be in their research lab and students can get research experience.

Yeah, no, I mean, I think it was a summer. Just because that's how school used to be. You used to have summers from school. And, you know, if you think about it, your clinical years were the first two years. So, you know, I mean, the professors are generally doing something different during the summer. And so you're. So they were off. You were off. But then the third year clinical rotations started, you know, in July, right after you finished your second year. So at that point. Yes. Then it started to go year round. And then. But, you know, I bet. I don't know, we'd have to look it up. I bet some. I bet way back in the day, you had summers all four years, you know, maybe.

Okay. Anyway, so it's October of my first year. People are talking about, what are they doing? What are they doing? There's definitely a lot of pressure onto that. And my school sent out this thing about this health exchange program in India that you would go and kind of provide healthcare to these people in, like, rural parts of India. And I was like, that sounds really cool. And I kind of inquired a little bit more about it. I remember talking to some people about it and, like, it was very taboo. People were like, oh, whoa, like, you're not gonna do this summer research program. You're gonna do something else. And that was like, whoa, stepping outside the box. Cause I think, again, people talking about pigeonhole.

Pigeonholing. I guess that's. I think that's a word. Pigeonholing, being pigeonholed, putting people into a box.

It's like, okay, you know, you're in medical school and you're like, or like, to get into medical school, you know, you need to do this, this, and this, and then you get into medical school. And then, like, I think a lot of people who go down this path, it's like. And I've definitely had. Had this thought. It's. It's easy in a sense.

Right.

You don't have to really, like, make any hard decisions about your life.

You don't have to pick your schedule.

Yeah, you don't have to pick your schedule. You don't have to really, like, I don't know, go outside the box a lot because you just, you. You put one foot in front of the other, and you just get to follow the steps, and then you're a doctor.

That's true.

You don't really have to.

Yeah, you don't have to decide. There's not a whole bunch of, like, branches. Right. You know, you're just like, okay, here's the path. Just get on the path.

It's not like you, okay, I'm in this corporate job, but I kind of want to start this company or do anything that, like, you just, you know, again, put one foot in front of the other and just keep going. So I think a lot of people were in that mindset of, like, okay, well, this is what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to do this summer research program, which, again, there's nothing wrong with that. But then I was saying, oh, I kind of want to do this other thing. And it was just kind of. And at first I was like, oh, am I doing the wrong thing? You know? But now looking back, I'm like, oh, wow. I'm so glad that I didn't put myself into this box. And I've talked to some people who are kind of regretting putting because now, after finishing their first year, they're kind of like, man, like, I could have done anything with this summer. And I put myself into this box of that. I have to do this one thing.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah, I decided to do. I talked to some other people. Some other people in my class actually are also doing it. So I'm going to go on that program, which is about three weeks before that. Right now. I'm currently doing a preceptorship, so doing a preceptorship, able to make a little bit of money, and then we are going on a trip together to Japan, because I'm going all the way over there, able to travel, and then able to do this India trip. In addition, like, you do have to pay for this India trip. I Applied for a scholarship, which I got. And then also, like, if you do a preceptorship, like, a lot of that money can go towards the trip as well. Oh, nice. So it's like, you know, it does it. Different types of people are still able to do something like that.

Yeah. Yeah. One question. Did the other people in your class who are doing the India trip, were you the leader of doing that or did they independently decide to do this?

Some people independently decided. And then are. I kind of of decided because some other people were doing it, and then some other people decided because I was doing it. So.

Okay. It's kind of full, but yeah.

In addition, I am in the process of getting a project approved that I'm going to be doing in India. Some, like, survey research on something I'm actually interested in with substance abuse. Oh, wow.

Oh, wow. Okay. Actually, I didn't. I didn't realize that because that goes back. You did. You've done lots of research on substance abuse.

Yeah. And I was kind of trying to figure out if I want to do something different because I have so much of that, but I don't know, I'm interested in it. And yeah, the idea is that, like, you know, in rural areas in the United States, it's really. Substance abuse is really prevalent.

Yeah.

So, like, my kind of thought was like, oh, is it the same in other countries?

Oh, yeah, that's.

So hopefully, if that gets approved, the plan is for us to do some of that survey research and then at least present it at the end of the summer. And, um, we're gonna write it up and try to get it published, too. But, you know, so I'm already. I'm getting my research experience, able to travel, made some money, getting some Clint. Some great clinical experience, too, as in this preceptorship. So I. I just kind of pivoted a little bit with what I was doing with my summer. And maybe. And maybe this was in my head because I was doing something different than other people. But the point that I wasn't just straight up doing research this summer, it was like. And also I just got the thing so much of like, oh, well, you're interested in family medicine, so you don't have to. Oh, gosh. It's like, okay, I think I. Again, I don't think anything. Anyone's doing anything wrong, but it's just like, I feel like when I am filling out REI residency application, I'm hopefully going to be able to talk about this summer as well. Like an experience.

Yeah. Where you actually like grew as a person. Yeah. And learned well.

Yeah.

And so back to the preceptorship. The. Now, do you. Have you been writing notes?

Yes.

You know how to write?

Dr. Olson told me by the end of my preceptorship, I'm going to be a pro at writing notes.

That's good. I know that sounds to anybody non medical that sounds like, yeah, what write a note. But writing medical notes is actually a very important skill and it really does take a while to get it down. Normally people have to learn that during their third year rotations and it has to be done in a very particular way. And it actually is really helpful as you learn to write notes. It helps you organize your thoughts about, about a patient. And then when you talk to other doctors, you always talk in this particular way too. You first give subjective, objective assessment and plan. And so when you're presenting a case, you're just telling another doctor about something and you first say the subjective parts of what the patient tells you, the objective things, which are like the physical exam and the laboratory and the X rays assessment, what you think is going on and your plan. And it's like, I don't know. Again, it sounds kind of dumb if you don't quite understand it, but it really, really helps communication because you're able to streamline what you say. They know when you're gonna say certain things. They don't interrupt you and say, well, what'd the X ray show? Because they know you're gonna get to that. Anyway, it's a great skill and it's something that does take a while to really get down. So anyway, I'm glad you're learning that.

Yeah, no, that's definitely something that I need a lot of work on. I'm not, I'm really, really bad at writing in general. I just organizing and like organizing my thoughts in a linear way. So like I am. I know that that is something that I need, like, need to work on a lot.

Well, and I think that that's why, you know, that's why we have the system that we do is, is to help you organize your thoughts because you don't want somebody rambling.

Sorry, that.

Just a flashback to being in residency when I was a. When I was a third year resident and I was supervising this intern and he was very interesting guy. I think he was like a philosophy major in college, very smart guy, but really liked to write basically novels as his notes. And we were reading this note that he had written and he said he's telling the patient the patient's, like, telling their story. Right. You just want to know, like, they're here for chest pain. It started at this time. It was this bad. It radiated to this right arm, left arm, blah, blah, blah. He's like, so he was lying upon a grassy knoll and blah, blah, blah.

I'm like, what?

So, man, actually, I'd love to go back and read some of those notes. They were really quite hilarious. But I'm like, when you're talking about grassy knolls in your notes, something has gone terribly wrong. Something is called very awry.

Yeah. Maybe get into writing rather than.

Yeah, yeah. You know, I'll have to look him up. Maybe he is a writer now.

I'm doing my preceptorship in, like, a smaller hospital, and it's not a big academic center, and I go to school at a huge academic center, so I'm. There's always lots of residents, other medical students and stuff in this. I'm like, in a rural area in a small hospital, and I'm the only student in the whole hospital, so. So it is, like. It's a really good experience, though, honestly, of being able to do a lot.

Yeah, yeah.

And really interact with the patients and. And I feel like I'm. I'm learning a lot.

Yeah. That's fun. I heard you excited to get a badge.

Yeah. It's, like, clout to have the badges. Definitely wanted a badge because people are. Yeah, that's. That's a gunner thing right there. Is like, people have, like, a stack of badges on their coat. So it's like, the more places you're credentialed, like, oh, like. Oh, like you shadowed anesthesia at lbj. Like, oh, like, that's like. It's like a. You know, wait.

And so they'd wear. They wear all these badges.

All the badges, yeah. Which I just realized, or I realized, like, after I got that one, I was like, oh, no one does that. Like, you, like, you know, because dad is credentialed on a bunch of different places. He doesn't have all of his badges on one.

No. He keeps them in his car, and then when he's walking into this hospital, he puts on that badge. Yeah. No. Nobody else does that. That's real. Should make a TikTok the badges. Okay. That's hilarious. Well, I'm glad you were excited to get your badge.

Yeah, I was excited. Yeah. It feels official.

And I think dad was telling me that they said on there, like, well, so what. What title should we put for you? And said medical Student. Okay, You've got a title. Medical student.

Hey, I'm someone.

You are someone.

But, yeah. Anyway, I guess just to kind of wrap up that conversation about this summer is don't. That can apply to other things, too. I remember always talking to pre meds, and they would come up to me like, oh, like, you know, what do you. What do I have to do? What do I need to do? What are the boxes I need to check? And I really feel like, yes, of course there's boxes that you need to check and there's things that you need to do. But I think if you just, like, walk into the experience like that, then you're not one. You're not gonna grow as a person. And, like, what's the point of life?

That's right.

You know, what's the point of life if we're just trying to check the boxes and we're trying to get through and it's just like, yeah, don't you want to, like, don't you want to better yourself in, like, in. In a way, in an internal way, not just on a piece of paper? And then.

You know, yeah, man. So you are not just a piece of paper. You are a whole person.

You are a person, and this is your life.

Okay.

This is your life. Don't you want to. You know, again, talking about that delayed gratification, if you put yourself into a box, you say, oh, I have to do. Do this. This is the next step. And I. And I need to do this, and you're not actually interested in it, then, like, what. What. What path are you walking down? What path are you walking down?

Yeah, I mean, you're not going to. But you're not going to enjoy it. And then if you're not enjoying it or learning from it or growing, you're not going to, like, kind of put your whole self into it either. You're just, like, going through the motions. And you can tell when people are doing that they don't really want to be there. And, you know, like, okay, that doesn't. That doesn't do anybody any good anyway.

Do what you want to do.

Do what you want to do.

Wait, one more thing. I was just thinking about that with just the badges and stuff, people have that because they shadow somewhere, and then, like, they get a badge for, like, shadowing there. And like, people. It's like, people. That's a very gutter thing to brag about shadowing as a med student. And I don't really get that. Why is that a flex? It's not yeah, because, like, for undergrad, you have to get a certain amount of shadowing hours to. For medical school.

Right.

So you need to do that. But now you just. You're supposed to just shadow for yourself. Right, Right.

Like, right. Yeah.

Are you just supposed to shadow so to. To experience a different specialty and see if you like it and. Right, right.

I mean, when you're applying to residency, nobody's asking you what, shadow? Yes. Like, nobody's asking you that. And. Yeah, I mean, same thing. It's for your own self and your own knowledge. And when you're applying to residency and you're saying why you want to be an anesthesiologist or whatever, I mean, it's helpful if you really know what an anesthesiologist. An anesthesiologist does. But, like, you don't flex that. You did, like, you know, 1,000 hours of shadowing. No, that's. I don't know. I mean, we didn't ever do. We didn't do that. We didn't shadow until we started our clinical rotations.

And then. Well, I think it's about. I. I think it's about that pressure to, like, decide what you want to do. So I think if you have a little bit of time and you're able to go experience something, then, like, I think, again, yeah, it can benefit you.

Yeah, yeah.

To see if you like it. But I just. I get that a lot. People walking into class in scrubs and like, oh, I just shadowed. Like, it's a flex.

Oh, my gosh. Right? So funny. Isn't it weird? It's super weird. It's also weird when people, like, who aren't surgeons are wearing scrubs.

Don't get me started. Don't get me started.

Or if you're, like, on call in the hospital overnight. Yes. You wear scrubs because they feel like pajamas. That's why you wear scrubs. You don't wear scrubs, so you look like a doctor. You're just like, okay. They're really. They're comfortable because I'm going to sleep in them and then wake up and hopefully get back to sleep. And that's why you wear scrubs.

Oh, no. I mean, I see, like, I see scrubs in the gym. I see scrubs on the driving range. I see scrubs, like, everywhere. Literally everywhere. Because, you know, I. And I live by the big hospital.

Okay, man, I would love for you to do a TikTok where you go and ask those people what they actually do.

Some are in or scrubs, but I.

Don'T know, but you can't even wear OR scrubs outside the or. Like, you're not literally allowed to, like, when you're doing surgery. You go in, in your regular clothes, you change into OR scrubs. You go into the OR and then you take those off. You never wear those outside of the, you know, of the operating room. So they're definitely, you know, they're definitely are not coming right from surgery. So, you know, I guarantee you most of those people are not doctors, for one, but like, yeah, they're going to be like maybe pre meds, other various, you know, allied health type things. But. Oh, do tick tock. And like every time you see somebody in scrubs, go and ask them what they do. Yeah. Just to shame them.

It just. It does. No. Yeah. It drives me crazy. Drives me crazy.

I had a. I had a psycho.

It's gross. It's gross. I don't like, I hate like also, that's another thing. What I've noticed now that I'm working in the hospital is I get really grossed out by the hospital. No, but it's gross. I don't want to wear my scrubs somewhere else. I just was with a bunch of sick people. I get in, I strip down, and I shower every time.

Okay, well, that's, you know, that's, that's good. Get rid of that stuff. Yeah, I do have a little PTSD whenever I go into a hospital. Like the hospital smell and stuff, I'm just like, brings back, brings back some bad memories.

You're really a doctor.

I know, but I don't, I don't do much stuff in the hospital.

Wait, what were you saying about the psychiatrist?

That was a psychiatrist came to my office to try to get me to send him patients and he showed up looking kind of disheveled in scrubs. You're a psychiatrist. Like, you're not drawing blood or like doing procedures where you would get your clothes yucky also. And, you know, when you go to, you know, to present yourself to somebody because you want them to refer you patients, you need to look professional, you know? I know I'm sounding like a boomer when I'm saying that. Like, I'm just like these kids today, they don't wear nice clothes and stuff. But, like, you're a professional and you want me to entrust my patients with you. You need to really, like, make a good impression on me. And so when you show up disheveled in scrubs, I'm not sending you any patients.

Well, I'm just like, really racking My brain of. Why would a psychiatrist be wearing scrubs?

Because they're too lazy to put on clothes, I guess. I don't know. I mean, there's. There's literally no reason for a psychiatrist to wear scrubs, like, ever.

I mean, I like scrubs. I'm not a scrubs hater. Like, I like wearing scrubs places. And, like, I'm. I'm.

But you're a scrubs hater. I'm a scrubs hater.

No, I like wearing. They're comfortable and they're easy. And especially, like, being a student, it's just easy to just wear scrubs.

Yes. I mean, it's better, you know? Yeah. Sometimes. Like, it. Like, if people. As my medical assistant. You wore scrubs. Work in my office. But especially when I have young people. Like, sometimes I have them wear scrubs because I'm afraid what they might, like, show up in, too.

Well, I'm. I'm just. I don't like having to. Yeah, I don't like. I'm. It's. It's laziness. Is why I like scrubs.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yes. But I'm not. I'm again. And then I'm getting dirty in the hospital, so I don't wanna wear my nicer clothes into the hospital where I'm getting dirty.

And also other clothes can. You know, you don't want something that's gonna, like, fall when you're leaning over or any of that kind of stuff.

They do say it's a lot harder as a woman. I think, too.

It is. Although men have ties, and those are, like, a complete menace to infectious stuff. Like, if you are leaning over a patient and your tie is like.

And you don't wash it.

No, they never. Men don't wash their ties. And so, you know, think about those things. They probably just have, like, they're probably filthy.

Oh, see, this is why I get gross out in the. And then the attending that I was with was making fun of me because I. Every time I walked, like, I was just kept using the hand sanitizer. I don't. I just feel dirt. I think it's your fault that I am.

That I have. You wash your hands.

No, just like the germaphobe Ness.

I am not a germaphobe. I am clean. You know, but, you know, they do say, like. I mean, doctors, everybody, like, nobody washes their hands enough in the hospital. Like, you should.

Don't tell me this is not what I need to hear, mom, because I'm freaked out.

No, but they're not Jumping on you. But you're doing a good job. If you are washing your hands all the time, that's good. I did, as part of my, like, recertification or something. You had to do, like, your own. I had to do my own research project in my office.

Wait, what are you talking about?

So when you research, when you redo your board certification, there's different things you have to do? Well, I can't remember what it's called, but it's basically like you have to do sort of a little thing to improve your practice in some way. And so you first. Do you record, like, how often something is going on in your practice, and then you make some change and then you record, like, what happens after that. So again, it's just me and one other employee. So it was like there weren't a lot of people I had to train on any changes. But I. I did a hand washing one and I first recorded how many times I was washing my hands.

Do you wash your hands correctly? Do you know the right technique?

Of course. You don't sing Happy Birthday?

No. You have to scrub. Like, we have. We got tested on hand washing. We had a test.

I mean, I know, like, when you scrub before you scrub into surgery, there's a very particular way you have to do that, but that takes forever. You don't do that, like, regularly, do you?

That's what our test.

Okay.

Anyway, continue.

But yeah, so. And then I can't remember really what. What the thing was then I was. I guess I did some patience, some education with me and my staff on hand washing. And then after that, you know, and we really improved. It was good. But it actually did make me really just like, think about it more and try to, you know, wash my hands before and after I touch a patient, which sometimes gets a little awkward because sometimes I do the physical exam and then there's something else that they want me to look at, and I've already washed my hands and then, like, I gotta, like, touch something else on them and then I go wash my hands again. I don't know. I'm not sure if that's comforting.

You're not a hand sanitizer person.

I don't like hand sanitizer. It dries out your skin. And honestly, washing your hands with soap and water is better. The only reason to use hand sanitizer is if you're too lazy to like, or if you don't have a sink nearby.

Yeah, I do. Hand sanitizer. I feel like it really just kills it all, gets it out of there.

No, but see, then what you want is that mechanical action of rubbing your hands together. And then there's.

I know, I know. Without it.

Okay, let me give you a test on it.

I know about the hand washing, but I just. I don't. Yeah. I don't know my hand hygiene or. That's why my hands are so dry.

Well, switch to the hand washing instead of that hand sanitizer. The hand sanitizer is what's. Dry them out.

It's too much.

It's not, but. But I don't know. I wonder if to patients, like, does it. Do they feel good that I'm washing my hands three times after, like, touching them? Or are they, like, okay, does she think that, like, I have some dreaded.

Disease I would feel good?

Okay.

Oh, my God. Yeah. 100%. I always feel better if they. If they got gloves on. If they got. I just. I just. I don't know. Maybe it was growing up people would just always talk about how dirty hands are and stuff and doorknobs and you. It's you. It's your fault. So I think I have a phobia.

It's not a phobia to want to be clean.

All right, everyone. Well, happy summer. Thanks for listening. And we.

You know where to find us, Generations.

MD on Instagram and TikTok. And if you have any questions or interested in being a guest on the podcast, you can email us at askgenerations. MD@gmail com, and we will talk to you next week. Bye, guys.

Bye.