@Ladyspinedoc on Life as a Spine Surgeon and Content Creator

You mentioned, you know, me being a neurosurgeon, I often say comedy, that it's harder being a content creator than going through neurosurgery residency. You're faced with so much more criticism, and that's crazy, but it's. I almost feel some days that that is true.

Hi, everybody, and welcome to the podcast. This is Generations md. My name is Stephanie and I'm joined here by my colleague, Dr. Sarah Davis, who's also my mother. And today we have a very special guest, Dr. Betsy Grunch. Dr. Grunch is a board certified neurosurgeon, business owner and mom. She practices in Georgia, specializing in minimally invasive spine surgery. Beyond her clinical work, you may know her as Lady Spinedoc because she has built an incredible social media presence, amassing over 2.3 million followers on TikTok and 1 million on Instagram. Through her engaging content, she shares a unique perspective on medicine, parenting, and life. Please welcome to the show, Dr. Betsy. Gretchen. Yay.

Welcome.

Yay. Thanks for having me, guys.

Yeah. So I know that you're there in. Are you in Gainesville?

Gainesville, Georgia? Yes, north of Atlanta.

So I went to school in Clemson, actually, and my boyfriend, one year post grad, actually lived in Gainesville, so I spent a little bit of time there.

Yeah, it's nice. Yeah. Biased because I grew up here, so.

Oh, really? That's where you grew up and then you came back there to practice?

Yeah, I was actually born in the hospital that I practice in.

That's amazing. What are the odds of that? That's crazy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The year that he was living there was when I was studying for the mcat. So there's one Starbucks somewhere in Gainesville that I don't have very fond memories on because I was just studying for the MCAT during. During that time.

Ptsd.

Heard that. That's trauma.

Yes, for sure.

Well, we're so excited to talk to you today. Just to kind of back up a little bit, can you tell us a little bit? You have an incredible story about getting into medicine. Can you. For our viewers or listeners who don't know, can you tell them a little bit about why you kind of chose the path of medicine?

Sure, yeah. So I mentioned a minute ago that I was born here in Gainesville and I grew up here my whole life. My mom was actually a police officer, served our county for years. And then in 1994, I was 13 and my mom was on the night shift. She was a deputy sheriff. So she was trying to investigate someone that was on private property. And when she drove by to investigate it, they shot at her vehicle. And she ran off the road and struck a tree and was instantly a C4 quadriplegic. So she broke her cervical spine, her neck, and was unable to move her arms and legs. She had a severe spinal cord injury. So she's complete. And I was just about to start high school, so obviously like, that was a very life changing moment for our whole family. Going through rehab, adjusting to completely different life. We had to move homes because our home was. Had stairs and, you know, she was now in a wheelchair. So so it just completely uplifted and changed our every sense of what we knew as normal. So that was obviously kind of the time where as a young person that you're trying to think of things that you may want to do. And at the time, I had really wanted to be a police officer because my mom was so cool. So I obviously didn't want to do that anymore. So I just really gravitated toward all the healthcare professionals that helped her. I started shadowing her neurosurgeon because I really couldn't understand, like, why someone was like, why that was an injury that was just a. And there was no cure. So I really wanted to, you know, kind of go into that field to treat people with spinal cord injuries and to try to understand it more. And so basically fast forward and. And that's exactly what. That's exactly what I did. So I went to University of Georgia for undergrad, then medical College of Georgia for medical school, and then went on to match it neurosurgery and complete my training at Duke, and then came right back here to the same town where I grew up. And I've been practicing ever since. I've been here for 11 years in practice and we're now a very Busy Hospital, Level 1 Trauma center and do mostly spine and trauma. So, yeah, it's been. It's been a really kind of whirlwind tour. That's a whirlwind tour of my life. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah, that is an incredible story. Can you talk a little bit about just like going into such a competitive specialty and being a woman going into this field? Did you ever. I'm sure you hit some obstacles along the way. Can you speak on a little bit behalf of maybe how you overcame some of that?

Obviously, yeah, just going into any medicines, that unusual kind of field because there's so many. There's such a vast range of different things that you can do with a medical degree and specialties and some that are super competitive and, and some that are more welcoming to certain demographics. But certainly neurosurgery is one of those fields, like a few others that are highly male dominated, very competitive. So being a woman trying to go into that field, it's better at least now, but, you know, not, not as much, but not as good as other fields. But at the time where I went in, it was about 8% females. So it wasn't really anything that, that I thought was something that I couldn't achieve. I've always been, my mom always been a super, you know, big supporter of me and her being a female cop in the 90s, I mean, like, was incredibly male dominated as well. So it was something that, like, I never really thought, oh, I can't do that. But it definitely, you know, was. Was tough with people always trying to like, exert what they think that your life should be and that, you know, maybe this isn't the field for you. So I, I think as a woman, we're always encountered with those type of obstacles and if you're not experiencing it, then you don't really understand it. So, you know, people are like, oh, no one's ever said that to you. And it's like, well, yeah, actually they say it all the time. And if you talk to even women now going into neurosurgery, it's something that's said all the time. Like, why would you want to do a feel like that you'll never have a family. All these things are not true. I mean, it's just, you know, it's, it's tough because if you start to believe some of those things and you let some of those thoughts come into your mind and you're like, oh, maybe, maybe I can't do that, maybe I shouldn't do that. And then I think that, you know, really deter someone from going into it. So, you know, for me, it was just something I've always wanted to do and I never really let anything tell me otherwise. And it's, it's been tough. There's definitely been, you know, things along the way that have made it challenging being a woman. But, you know, it's been good.

In your social media. I think one of the things that comes across is you are so. You seem so genuine and authentic and kind. You know, I assume that's the way you really are. But the, like, not it's all fake, but the, you know, it seems like I, I guess I just kind of want to know, like, how did that whole path not just like beat all of that out of you. Like, how did you manage to sort of, like, maintain that, I don't know, kind demeanor?

Yeah, I mean, it definitely does. At some point. I feel like there are many moments in my life where, you know, you feel empty inside and challenging and just like cold. Right. Absent. So I, I don't know, I just, I think the more I am outside of residency. Residency is tough, and that's for any specialty. It doesn't matter what field you're in. Certainly, you know, back when I trained, I was, before the 80 hour work week, I worked easily, you know, 120 hours a week for, for six straight years. And yeah, that's something where you definitely, like, feel lifeless and, and like you have nothing else left to give. And then coming out of that, it's almost like medicine is so funny because you're trained in this, like, 80 hours and residency, like, that is normal. Like, that's full time. Like, and it's crazy that, you know, in no other field is it like that. Then you come out and you're working and 40 hours almost seems like you're not working enough. And so, you know, you want to work more and more and more. And so like, or you feel like you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing and you're not serving your patients like you should. So definitely took years to kind of adjust to, like, hey, what is normal life? And I still work more than 40 hours a week and I always have kind of tried to, you know, try to maintain that work life balance. But I think, you know, the more you kind of get in tune with what light real life is like outside of training, and you see what other stuff there is in life, like having a family and enjoying things outside of medicine, it really just kind of sets you back. And I've just learned that, you know, being who you are and, and a good person, a good doctor is really what gives me satisfaction. It kind of circles back into why I went back into medicine to begin with. And so reconnecting with that has just kept me happy. So, yeah, I mean, who I am on social media is pretty much who I am in person. So, you know, it's hard to say all that.

I kind of want to. I remember watching a TikTok of yours talking about your residency experience, and I know you just touched on this a little bit about how getting out of residency you're able to find yourself a little bit. As I'm just kind of at the beginning of my training right now, I look and kind of See these things about people talking about their residency experience and kind of losing themselves through that. Can you maybe speak a little bit on the culture and how you were kind of able to get through it while you were actually training in such a competitive environment?

Yeah, I mean it's, it's something that I think you have to have the passion to know that there's a light at the end of the tunnel and that what you're there for is temporary. And that's something that it's hard to see when you're there. But you know, because we always think that we. It's hard to think of that next step when you're in the, in the midst of all the hard stuff. So I think for me it was just something that I kind of, I hate to say it, but like dissociate myself for several years. And you find enjoyment out of what you do though. So it's not like, oh my God, it was misery for six years. I mean, I really did enjoy surgery. I really did enjoy taking care of patients. I found ways of having fun in the hospital, finding friends, you know, with the nurses or with my co residents and just making that time at work enjoyable. And I think that's really the only way to survive. And I think it touches on kind of like, you know, being supportive of your co residents because you see them almost more than your family. And so finding that trust and relationship and kind of team building type environment where you're supportive of each other definitely helps make that experience more tolerable. And you know, and just, and just finding somewhere, whatever program it is that you'll thrive on, thrive in, and be supported, you know, I think it's, it's, it's hard because it's not something that we really have a choice in. When we match. I mean, certainly we can pick the places where we think that we're going to succeed in, but that doesn't always kind of translate into where we match. So I think for me, you know, I definitely found the program where I was accepted for who I was, I was supported. And you know, I know I've done a video on the toxic culture, but I think that translates everywhere. And my internship wasn't all that fabulous. But you know, I think in terms of my actual training program, I was well trained, well supported, and just really, you know, developed that sense of family with my, my co residents. Not all of them, but most of them.

Yeah, I find with the surgeons, whenever I, the ones that I have contact with in the hospitals and everything, the people who are the really good, confident surgeons are always the nicest. And the people who are very toxic and have, you know, the bad behavior, the ones throwing the stuff in the. Or are always the ones who are poor surgeons and, you know, they're kind of frustrated with themselves and then they take it out on everybody around them. So just kind of goes to that, like, okay, when you find the good people, the people that are really qualified and skilled, and a lot of times they are nicer people to be around as well.

Yeah, I think for the most part that's accurate. I mean, there's definitely some really, really good surgeons who are not so nice in the operating room. But yeah, I just, I think that definitely if you have a lot of doubt and you're not well trained and you in a stress environment like neurosurgery, you know, that stress will bring out characteristics and people that. And some people aren't so great. So I also think that we're just like kind of taught that that behavior is normal. So, like, when you are mad, you're supposed to yell at everybody, you know, and you know, it's not okay. And I think that for me, being a resident and seeing like, hey, that's how every surgeon I'm with acts, like that's what I'm supposed to do. And then you get out in the real world and you're like, well, that behavior really didn't get me anywhere good, so maybe that's not the way to react. And so I think it's a sense of like, self awareness that a lot of people don't have. And, you know, you develop that trait the more you grow as a, as a person and as a, as a surgeon and like, you know, you win more bees with honey is what I say. So, like, you know, you just, if you're going to have good outcomes as a surgeon and create an operative environment that's conducive to communication and good patient care. It has to be a supportive, positive type experience for everyone on the team. The nurses, the anesthesiologists, obviously the patients, the techs, everyone. So I think that's something that, you know, we kind of learn as we grow type thing. And I definitely have gotten better at that over the years. Yeah, yeah.

Do you think the culture is shifting a lot and you just being such a big voice in the medical community, do you think, like, have you seen any shift in training, you know, just toxic culture and medicine in general?

Yeah, I think, you know, social media has helped change that a lot because I think we Talk about it more openly and get the sense of, hey, that's like that everywhere, and that's not okay. Like, back before, you know, back when I trained, we didn't have social media, so, like, you know, we didn't know that that's not okay. And it is a feeling that's propagated across, you know, all specialties and stuff. But to have a big voice and to really kind of see how the culture is, like, all across the world. I mean, it's not even the US and how we can really speak up into how we can make that better and have studies that show that patient care is better when there's a more supportive environment, I think is helpful. And I think just in the translation of how social media has grown and given all of us, not just, you know, big people, but all of us a voice into speaking up, it's very conducive to change.

So, yeah, just speaking on that. How did you start this whole TikTok thing? How did you really imagine social media following?

Yeah, I mean, I wasn't intending on doing anything like this. I never in my wildest dreams would have ever thought that there was. This would be my life three years ago when I made my first video. But it was just something that really. I just was bored during the pandemic and had a lot of free time on my hands. And, you know, it's very. At that stage in your career, I think, you know, seven, eight years into your specialty, outside of residency, you feel good, like you know what you're doing, everything's just second nature. So you're not like, super stressed about work and, you know, combine that with having some free time. I started making videos and not. Not in a way destined to become like a content creator, but just I was just relieving some stress. And I posted one video about being a woman in neurosurgery that really went viral and kind of changed everything for me. Opened up, like, how I can utilize the platform, what people I can reach. You know, I was just being like we've talked about a minute ago, like, being a woman in neurosurgery is so unique. And I wanted to show other women that wanted to do neurosurgery, hey, like, you can do it. You can't have a family. Look at me. I have two kids and, you know, I have a good life. And this is life outside of neurosurgery. Because whenever I was wanting to do this, I didn't have any zero female attendings. I've never met a WOMAN IN NEUROSURGERY so for, I just thought it was like a cool way of, of showing my life and I, you know, just kind of challenge myself. I'm very type A, obviously. I always want to succeed at everything I do. And I said, hell, I can do this. Like, I'm going to start making videos. So I, I started like looking up how to be like, what content creators to do to be successful, how to make videos that are going to captivate people. So I started being more consistent about posting, you know, need to post every single day. People need to know what they're getting when they come. And I wanted to make education like very important in my platform. And so I started doing, you know, to make myself consistent about education. I started doing like a weekly thorough review of a topic, my Sunday case study. And I just continued that. And it's not like something I think a lot of people get frustrated with because they post something and then, you know, they post and they post and they post for like two months and then they don't have a following. It's like this is a slow grind that I've been doing over like almost, you know, four years now and have amassed that. But it's all, it's about consistency, it's about, you know, authenticity. It's about bringing stuff to the table that people want to hear in a way that, you know, people can understand. And I think it's just a good way of really having a voice in this community that allows us to just, you know, deliver good information and kind of blow misinformation. So much of that stuff on the social media and yeah, it's just been, it's just been a cool experience. I never would have thought it as what it is today. I've definitely grown so much as a person from it and you know, when they thought they were going to take tick tock away, I made this like really emotional video. But it's very true. Like, I think this platform has really changed my life into making me a better speaker, a better educator. I understand what, you know, people comment back and how I can make what I say, like speak it in a different way that, that maybe is a little easier to understand or, you know, how to say it better, how to deliver the information better. And not only does that make me a better content creator, it's made me a better person, it's made me a better physician because I can deliver information to my patients better now that I understand how people perceive things. And I think, you know, I think if, if people want to do it. You just have to understand it's just like medicine. You don't start as an attending. You start like a little tiny baby and then you just grow.

So that's, that's so interesting getting that feedback in the comments. I mean, that's something, you know, once in a while you get some feedback from patients, but it's not like that, like, you know, really. So you can really curate a little bit better how you speak to them. When people tell you that. That's, that's really interesting.

Yeah, I mean, like if I talk about a, I don't know, cervical disc herniation, 3 million people giving me feedback versus talking to one person, I can, you know, it's, it's really amazing. So, yeah, yeah.

How do you think your life has changed? And I know that and just with opportunities rising, I know that you're preparing for a TED Talk right now and certain things like that. How do you feel like it's impacted like your personal life?

I mean, it's, it's, it's changed so much. Just the opportunities that I've been given that I never would have been given otherwise. You know, I'm just a little practicing nurser in a small town in Georgia. Like, you know, no one really cared about what I had to say before. And it's just, you know, I'm going to Italy and too much to speak to a bunch of ophthalmologists about social media. And it's just crazy to me to think that, you know, all of these things came up because I made this stupid little video in my kitchen three years ago. Why? Like, why is this wild? But yeah, it is, it's definitely a wild ride. And I'm not, you know, I don't. Everybody's like, oh, what do you have planned for that? Or what, what do you, where do you see yourself in five years? I'm like, I don't even know where I see myself in six months. It's really given me a lot of time for my family and a lot of self reflection on work, life balance too because, you know, I, I understand from watching other people and how we can learn from each other to do better for ourselves and for our families. And so I think it's really allowed me to see there is so much outside of medicine too. And so I've been able to try to make myself a better, well rounded person for my family and for my patients.

Did you ever worry that the social media was going to impact negatively on your career?

Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, I Still sometimes think that, you know, neurosurgery is such a specialty. That's the very, you know, prestigious old white man type environment. And I definitely feel sometimes like the outcast, like the wild child. Right. So, you know, I always, definitely when I started, maybe not so much now, but because I have developed this voice. But I don't know, I've always just thought like, you can post one thing that isn't taken the right way and it could really ruin everything. And it's something that is, it's kind of crazy, you know, to think that that can happen. So you kind of have to like continuously be on guard about that or you know, say something the wrong way and it, and it could really affect everything. And I've had that experience, you know, a few times where maybe something wasn't taken the right way or I didn't do enough research on something and said something incorrectly. And it's devastating to think that people can judge everything about you off of a 15 second video. Right. But yeah, I mean, I think, you know, social media is something that's a double edged sword. It's really, really a positive experience, but it can really, really be quite negative. And that's with everything I post. I mean I can post the most simplistic video and people say the nastiest things and I try not to get too buried in the comment section. But like, you know, like yesterday I just posted a fun video and, and scrubs and like how, you know, I like to wear fun scrubs and like belittled by many. I mean there's hundreds of comments, I've had some of them but like, you know, just people saying nasty things and it's just like if, if you're the kind of person that can't take negative criticism, it's not a good place to be because it can really drive you to a space that can be. You can, you can read 100 positive things, but when you see that one negative thing, it can really just, just be impactful. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I can't read a lot of the comments. I let Stephanie read them. I just need to know.

Yeah, I mean that's really inspiring for me to hear that even somebody who's gone through neurosurgery training is still affected by like negative comments that you get.

It's true.

Yeah, it's, it's tough. Like how do you, how do you deal with it and how do you kind of like find your sense of self outside of that?

I mean, you know, I tell my kids this too. Like, you know, my daughter's six, and she comes home, somebody's mean to me at school today. I'm like, baby, there's not one person that everybody loves. There's always going to be people that like you and people that don't like you, and you just have to accept that. And, you know, that's human nature, and that's okay. That's how it should be. You shouldn't be a kind of person Everybody loves so 100 of the time. And so you're going to have people that are haters and that especially on a platform in which you can type behind a keyboard and have no remorse for anything that you say about someone, it says a lot about that person and maybe what they're going through in their life to want to be negative to someone they don't even know. And so I just try to remember that when I see that stuff, like, it's not really a reflection of me, it's a reflection of them. But it's hard when someone says, really something nasty or gets you at a weak moment or. Or touches a spot that's sensitive to you. It's. It's still like. Yeah. I mean, every single day I read stuff that hurts my feelings. And how bad it hurts my feelings just depends on what my mood is.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, we talked to Tiffany Moon, who. I know that, you know, and we talked about the fact that, you know, with. With any success comes backlash, and she said that somebody, I don't know who it was that said this to her, but she said somebody said, you know, if you don't have any haters, try harder.

Yeah, exactly. The higher you get, the more haters you get because people are jealous. And, you know, and that's okay. I mean, that's okay. It's just. Is just. You have to, like, rise above all of that. And I think you mentioned me being a neurosurgeon. I often say comedy, that it's harder being a content creator than going through neurosurgery residency. You're faced with so much more criticism, and that's crazy, but I almost feel some days that that is true. It is so hard to have a platform like. Like this if you really are someone that. Like me, where I want to please everybody. We're all people pleasers. Right. And I don't want anybody to say anything mean, and it's just gonna happen. So. Yeah, whatever.

But you think the pros outweigh the cons? You'd still just love what you do?

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's. It's such a great place to be and to really inspire so many people or, you know, even the, the smaller people, people that don't post a lot of videos. If you post one video that's says something and resonates with one person, you could change their life. So just because you don't have 3 million followers doesn't mean that what you post isn't important and won't hit someone. So, you know, it's something that your stuff will always reach people that need you. And I think it's important to realize that, that, that everybody has their own voice. And things that you post, they won't always say, wow, that really helped me. I mean, they're. They may not even like your video, but they're watching and they listen and they hear it, and it can change. Change people. And what other space do we have that that can happen? Don't. We don't. Not sitting here in my kitchen.

Yeah, well, so shifting gears a little bit, the, you know, I know you talked about the fact that people had told you, oh, you know, you're never going to be able to have a family when, you know, going into neurosurgery. And. But you do have a family.

How.

And I think. I think I did see one video where you were. It was your anniversary and you were saying, you know, at one time I thought I may never get married. And so did you really have that mindset, like, during residency, like, okay, this maybe is my whole life, or how did that, how did that grow?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was always kind of growing up the, like, the smart, fat friend that gave everybody all the answers and, like, helped everybody get ready for prom, but never went to prom, never had a boyfriend. And that was like how I was in high school and in college, for that matter. So I just, you know, never really saw myself as a wife or having a family. I wanted it, you know, but that just never was anything that happened for me when I was growing up. So I just had the mindset of doing neurosurgery because that was what I wanted, and I always got what I wanted, and I know that I could work hard and make that happen. So that's what I did. And then, you know, I obviously, like, dated off and on, but never really found that person, nor did I really like, you know, that didn't really change my mindset of what I wanted to do. But when I was in residency, I did. Eharmony was an online dating site. And, you know, I'm getting like mid-20s, 27, 28 years old. And I'm like, man, I really would like to have a family maybe one day. And so, yeah, I mean, that's, that's how I met my husband. It was just instant. Like I just knew that he was, you know, a similar vibe type person. But I think it's, you know, it's something that I was okay with in residency. Like, hey, if this was my life, I mean, that really wasn't what I wanted. I didn't want to just be a neurosurgeon, but I mean, that was something that gave me a sense of fulfillment and I hoped that the rest would happen. And there's always that moment that it happens. And, and for me it was, you know, I was 20. How old was. I think it was 29 when I met my husband. So it was meant to happen that way, I think. I don't know if I would have met him earlier. Would that have changed things? Who knows? So, yeah.

And just like going forward and choosing to have a family, did you like plan this out, a timeline with your training and everything? I just know that and just the way that you're speaking and saying that, you know, you wanted to be a neurosurgeon and this was the plan and now you met your husband. How did you work that into your plan?

Yeah, right. I mean, all of us in medicine are type A, so obviously I did have the plan. But I met him at a time where I was, I was in my third year of training and I was in a six year program at the time. There are no six year neurosurgery programs now, but with the work week regulations. But so it was kind of right in the middle of my training. We dated and got married in my end of my fifth year, which was at one more year left to go. And so we like, obviously didn't want to like start a family. Like while I'm in my senior year transitioning to a new town. We didn't even know where I would go. And so we definitely knew we wanted to wait until just because the timing wasn't the best. And so then you get in practice and well, that's not a great time either because you're, you're trying to grow your practice, trying to establish yourself and you don't want to, you can't go out on maternity leave and everyone, you know is going to question whether or not you're present. And so, yeah, I mean, fast. I was like 32 and I'm like, man, I don't even know if I'm gonna be able to have kids now, but. But, yeah, I definitely think it's something as if I had gone back or even earlier, like, before I met my husband in my early 20s, I. I probably would have thought more about, like, harvesting and saving eggs, but, you know, lucky for me, very lucky for me that I wasn't. Didn't have any issues with fertility like many of my colleagues and friends have waiting like I did. So, yeah, we. We had my son when I was, like, two and a half years into practice, and I was, I think, 30, so, 34 when I had him, 35 when I had him, 34 when I got pregnant. So it was tough. And having pregnant, being pregnant that late in life is not the easiest, either. So. Yeah, and then my husband and I, we were. We weren't sure that I wanted a second child. He wasn't sure he wanted a second child, but, you know, we just made that happen without. Without his consent.

You get what you want. That's, you know, that's.

So. So, yeah, I had my second. I had my daughter when I was 39, so that was also, like, you know, I was also very lucky to be able to conceive at that age, but it was. It was hard. I. And I knew that was it, like, I could not have anymore because that pregnancy was so much more difficult at that age. And, you know, being what I do, staying on my feet all day wearing 20 pounds of lead, it was just so, you know, lucky that I have two healthy, great kids. And, yeah, I mean, it worked out for me, but I think to try to plan that out as a medical student or as a resident is something that we all, like, want to, like, plan at the perfect time and just realize that even for me, that was not the perfect time either. And there is no perfect time. So you just have to find a way to, like, kind of roll that up into whatever is going on in your life and just, you know, and just. And just still do it. I mean, still. Still do your life and realize that there are so many more important things outside of life than medicine. And so if you wait too long, you may not have that opportunity, unfortunately. And I think we're becoming more and more supportive of that. One of my female colleagues in residency had her first child in residency, and it was tough, but, you know, she had a very supportive spouse, and they found a way to make it work.

So, yeah, I think that I really appreciate these conversations because, I don't know, even at the beginning of training and Just having conversations with my peers and my professors and all this. I do feel I. I just think it's important to talk about because, you know, like, me and my peers want to have a family, and we want to plan this and talk about it, but I do. There still is kind of this, like, shame of, oh, no, we're here to focus on our careers. We're here to focus on, you know, what we're doing, not necessarily focus on. On anything, like, outside of medicine. I still kind of feel there's a little bit of stigma about that. So I just appreciate you talking about this and opening up, because it's important for us to kind of hear, how did people do this? How were people able to have families through training and all of these things.

I think we also think about our kids, you know, like, we have a child during medical school or during residency. Am I going to be present as a parent? You know, And I mean, I just think that it's. It's hard no matter what stage you're in, but, you know, it's being supportive of those around you. I mean, I. I had a few colleagues in medical school that got pregnant, and we definitely were like, oh, she's not going to finish. But why did I say that? Like, why did I do that? I did. I totally did. And I just think it's. I just think it's the second nature of humans to try to judge others. But just live your life, man. And it's. And in four years, when you're done with medical school, you're probably never going to see these people again. And maybe a few, but I don't see maybe one that I went to medical school with. I see zero of the people I went to residency with. These people are transient in your life. And, you know, what is core in your life is your family. Those people never leave. And so you just have to do what's best for you and ignore the rest.

Yeah, we had. I remember there were two students in my med school class that were married, and first year, they got pregnant and then had the baby, like, second year. And then she dropped out and went back to be a pharmacist, and he went on to become a doctor. And I. I don't know what happened to those people, but I always think about that. I was like, she was there. She was doing it just like he was. And then just said, you know, no, I want to stay home with this baby. Which there's obviously no shame in that. And hopefully she's gone on to live a perfectly happy Life. But you just, I just kind of wonder, does she think like, oh, you know, he's living my dream?

Yeah, no, it's true. I mean, and maybe, maybe she is living her dream too now. But I think having children changes you, period. And like, if you're at that vulnerable stage of your career and you're like already having second thoughts, maybe then that might be enough to tip you over the edge too. So maybe medicine wasn't for her, you know, and that's also good.

That's. Yeah, that's a really good point.

I don't know, mom.

I hope I didn't tip you in a negative direction.

Well, you know, you are a bottomless pit. I talked about how medicine is a bottomless pit. It'll take everything. And children are a bot. Bottomless pit. You know, they'll take whatever you have. They will take more and more and more.

But that's my job.

Now. You're an endless source of, of energy and happiness.

When did you have her? What point in your training?

I was, I was done. You know, I did family medicine, so it's only a three year residency, but I, so it was, I finished residency. My husband and I took a quick one month trip around the world after we finished residency, started our jobs and then I got pregnant with her older brother, did that job for a year. Well, got, you know, then, then I had him. Then I came back part time for a while and then I quit that job. But then I opened my own practice when they were, when he was three and she was one. And that was like, that was a challenging thing to do. But I also kind of thought, you know, I mean, if I'm ever going to start my own practice, you've got to just do it. And there's no, there's no great easy time to do it. And I thought, you know, let's just, let's just start now. And you know, Now I'm, it's 22 years later and I'm, I'm really happy that I started it and just kept it going. I think sometimes you don't really realize, you know, when you're, when you're busy and you're working and you have young kids, you're just kind of like, oh, that's just the way life is.

It's.

You don't really think that it could be any different. Now I'm an empty nester and I'm like, oh, wow. Life can be like, now I'm in cruise control. It can be really easy. I'm out here in Our lake house. It's. It's a different time.

Yeah, for sure.

But you're still in the thick of it.

Yeah. I mean, it's fun, though. I love. I love this aid. Yeah.

I mean, you've got this, you know, you've got those.

Yeah.

Little ones, like, I mean, that are busy and fun, but it's. You always. There's always something else that you, you know, you need to be doing for them. So you can have that sort of guilt of like, I'm at work and. And there's some party at the school that I'm missing, or, you know, now I'm here with my kids, but, you know, there's some emergency at work. I think there's always that push and pull, but that's going to be there no matter what. You just have to. Have to get comfortable with it.

Yep.

Just as we're kind of wrapping up here, I like to ask all of our guests this. We have a lot of listeners who are my peers and people at the beginning of their medical training. And just as I'm at the beginning, do you have any advice as I start this long journey towards being a doctor?

I think just, you know, all the things that we touched on, just remember to have fun along the way like that. You know, we talk about healthcare being such a hard, tenuous journey full of toxicity, but it's also full of lots of fun things. And medicine is a field that, you know, we're. We're lucky to be able to take care of people and make people's lives better and just stay true to why you went into medicine. You know, we. We all, like, wrote our personal statement applying for medical school for you, it's way more closer to where you're at now than us. But, you know, that really, that reason why you said, hey, I want to be a doctor, like, just remember that at any part where things get hard and that, you know, you really just don't know if you want to do it anymore. And, you know, and if you don't want to do it anymore, that's okay, too. But I just think that it's. It's so hard to get caught up with the grind and then just don't let the grind consume you and just continue to keep that purpose, but also have fun along the way, and life goes on. When you're done, it's great. Like your mom, like me. I mean, life is good. And I love what I do and love taking care of patients every single day that allow me to, you know, provide my knowledge to help them. And. Yeah, it's good.

Well, I just appreciate you being here and talking to us and also just being such a strong voice in medicine. You're such an inspiration to me and so many other women specifically who want to go into this field or into any competitive specialty or just being a doctor in general. It is such an inspiration. So thank you for doing what you do.

Thank you. Thanks for having me, guys. Yeah.

Do you want to, like, plug all your stuff? I know you have, like, some merch as well. Anything. Where can people find you?

Yeah, I mean, you can find me on all platforms at Ladies Buy Doc. I'm on all the things and just love to, you know, share educational content, but share my life and just helps keeps me entertained along the way. But I have recently started just a medical clothing line. I love fashion and kind of cool clothes. And so ladiesbinedoc.com I've started just some like, you know, sweatshirts, hoodies, T shirts, fun stuff about medicine, fun stuff about neuroscience. And I've got a few other healthcare content creators that's helped me create some fun designs and hoping to grow that in 2025, because I think in healthcare, we like, we love to have fun, fashionable things that represent us. And I just don't think there's a space out there that is run by healthcare professionals that really does that. And so it's just been. It's just been a fun experience. So. So, yeah, and inspirational stuff, too, that, you know, just kind of helps people stay positive during this arduous journey. Yeah. That's awesome.

And you guys know where to find us @Generations MD on TikTok and Instagram. And you can contact us ataskgenerations MD gmail.com and we talk to you next week. Bye, guys.

Bye, guys.