MD vs. DO & Military Medicine with Emma

You're officially like a member of the US military, which is so weird. Cause I'm literally a 22 year old girl and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm a secular tender. Like, I'm just a girl. I'm like, I'm just a girl. This is so weird.

Hi everybody and welcome to the podcast. This is Generations md. My name is Stephanie and I'm joined here by my colleague Dr. Sarah Davis, who's also my mother. And today we have a very special guest, Emma, if you want to go ahead and introduce yourself.

Hi, my name is Emma Grace Vacara and I am a DO student at Rocky Vista University in Montana.

Awesome. Well, we're so excited to have you. Emma reached out to us, kind of just talking about what she's listened to thus far from the podcast and wanted to kind of dive into the differences between DO and md really, like specifically day in our lives and kind of like curriculum and what we learn. And I think that this is going to be a really good conversation. But Emma, if you kind of want to just back up a little bit and tell us, you know, your path going towards medicine and then kind of going that DO route.

Yes. Well, thank you so much again for having me on. I'm so excited. So I always knew since I was a little kid that I wanted to be a doctor. My mom is a nurse practitioner and my dad's a firefighter. So very like first responder type family. So knew I wanted to be a doctor really early on. I always kind of set myself up that through school I went to Davidson, which is a small school in North Carolina. They had a great pre med program. I played a sport there, so super fun. And I ended up applying right out of school, so I didn't take a gap year. And I actually originally applied to like 20 MDs and I didn't really know what a deal was actually like at all. Neither did my parents. My mom, she now works in medical device sales, so she works with a ton of md so she also didn't really know what a DO was, what the difference was. And when I was getting shadowing my junior senior year of college, I ended up just meeting doctors, literally. One I like went to the gym with, one I like babysat for, ended up shadowing them and they actually all ended up being do. So I actually had more DO shadowing than I did MD and I just like didn't realize it. And then once I like kind of went in, I was trying to like read like what the difference was. Because I was like, you know what? Application cycle was really rough from being someone who didn't take a gap year. I was lucky that I worked all through college. I had good experience, but like my MCAT was a little bit lower. So I was like, oh, I gotta figure out maybe an alternative route. So I ended up applying to DOS really late in the cycle. Probably like December. But I'm so happy I did because it's where I am now. Yeah, it really, it really worked out. So I'm really glad looking in hindsight is 20 20. So happy I ended up doing that. But I did some research around in December about like, really what a deal was. I talked to the deals that I shadowed. I ended up realizing that, oh, it's not that much different. What I've figured out now actually being in school is our differences. Of course. Yeah, we're holistic. But every school nowadays, I'm sure, like, you're as.

They all say that, right?

Yes, yes. Like every, every school is holistic. That's not really a differentiating factor anymore. It really is that we just do omm, which is osteopathic manipulative medicine. So it's just like an extra course that I have to take. And it's all about like how I was going to say I should know this because I just had an exam on it. I was like, oh gosh, I'm like in spring break mode. My brain has not.

Same, same. So yeah, it has shut off.

But yeah, just how like your body moves with forces and how somatic dysfunctions can be fixed, yada, yada, yada. But basically that is what I figured out what the difference was. And I was like, well, this is kind of cool. Like I was an athlete. Like maybe this is something I would actually use be interested in. It has turned out to be really awesome. But once I figured out that was kind of like the main difference, I was like, okay, well, might as well apply. I ended up getting into a few do schools and then I randomly decided on the one in Montana. So I am from Virginia, went to school in North Carolina and I got into a few schools on the east coast. I think I wanted something different. And the school that I actually attend, they have a really cool thing. I don't know, I. Maybe I heard this wrong, but. Stephanie, did you apply for some like research something at school that you apply to?

Yeah, it. I am in like a scholarly concentration is kind of what. What it's called. Yeah.

Okay. So I think it's kind of the same thing. We have like literally elective tracks. So I will get like, it's almost like a minor kind of.

Yeah, yeah, same thing.

Yeah. So we have three separate ones at my school. I'm an HPSP student, so I'm in the military. So we have a separate military track. So every, I think it's four weeks out of every semester. I'll do like only military medicine, which is super cool. So that's why I ended up all the way out here. Yeah, that's kind of, kind of my story.

Well, I just kind of was taking note of that because one of the things that it seems to me, and I could be wrong, that a lot of the do schools, because they're not like state sponsored, end up being more expensive. And so for you, you're in the military and so that's not really a factor.

Yes, that's. Originally I was, I applied to like five Texas schools because I was like, oh, they're the cheapest. I was like, this will be great. And then I ended up, I wanted to do military when I was younger, but like wasn't really sure and then ended up doing the process through college. And then I was like, okay, this will be fun. So then when I applied to all these schools and then added a bunch of dos, I was like, it really doesn't matter the cost of attendance because I'm not paying for it. But yeah, the school that I attend and most years, which I didn't know until coming to school, so I was talking to professor about it, they are like privately backed. Like our school I think is for profit. So it is like really expensive. Like my classmates who did have to take out loans, they're going to be about half a million dollars in debt, which is so sad. But it is unfortunately the reality of some of the schools nowadays.

I do want to talk about this military track a little bit because this is something that I'm like. So like I'm really not familiar with and I don't know of any classmates of mine who are doing it. So can you talk a little bit about that?

Yes. So it is the health profession scholarship program and it's for all branches or three branches of the military. It's Air Force, army and Navy. So I'm in the Air force. I'm a second lieutenant, I'm an O1. You start the process. Well, you can start it before school or you can do it in the middle of school. I just did it before because I wanted all four years covered. But basically you, you apply, it's like a year long. Process. You have to meet certain MCAT requirements, certain gpa, you have to get recommendations, interviews, all the fun things. And once you commission. So I commissioned before I went to school. You're officially like a member of the US military, which is so weird because I'm literally a 22 year old girl and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm a secular tenant. You're like, I'm just a girl. I'm like, I'm literally just a girl. This is so weird, but super fun. I love it. I haven't done much yet, but still big fan. But yeah, so they sponsor, I think it's like over 170 scholarships a year. So there's always some leftover for every branch, but they'll pay for all four years no matter where you go to school, full tuition, you get a stipend. So I get a stipend for my lovely apartment. So my rent, that's pretty much it. It's not like amazing, but it works. And it pays for my groceries, my, my gym membership, all the fun stuff. So that's really nice because I'm able to not take out loans, be like self sufficient, like my parents don't help me or anything because I actually am employed. So that's been great. The only thing is you do owe active duty after. So I owe four years of active duty service and then four years of reserve status and then it gets a little complicated. But your residency is a little bit different. So you can do a military residency or you can do a civilian one. It just depends on what the military has spots for. So if I do a military residency, it's great. I get paid like double the amount of what actual residents make, which is wonderful. But then when you get out, if you're in the military, they pay a little bit less, which is fine because you're in no debt. And you made about double what everyone else made the past four years. So that's really cool. But then while you're in school, your requirements are of course, be a student and go to school. But you have to do, it's like 45 days of an active duty tour a year. So like this year I'll go to officer training school this summer. So that's going to be in Montgomery, Alabama. So I'll go like a boot camp. It was boot camp. Okay. But it's, I'm lucky because it's officer boot camp. Really. So it's not.

I'm not like being a grunt. No, no, no.

But sadly, if you're in The Army. If you did not do ROTC in college, you do have to go to like, it's called DCC. It's like two, two or three weeks. It's like real boot camp. Like you're an E1. Like a couple of my classmates have to go to that and then they'll go to like a four week officer training camp. So I'm lucky. Mine's only four or five weeks. Army seven. Navy is also five weeks, I think. But it's interesting, Stephanie, that you said that like I guess you don't really know anyone at your school that's in hpsp. The cool thing about my school is there are about 50 of us that are in Army, Navy and Air Force. So it's about like 25 for each class right now, which is awesome. And that's also. I wanted to go here because I was with a ton of military kids. But yeah, it's pretty cool. And then like the next year my like active duty orders, I'll be put on school orders. So like I just get paid extra to go to school and then I have to do military audition rotations and then military clerkships. So. But yeah, it's super cool and I'm really lucky that I'm in an environment where there's a ton of us so we get to do a lot together and we have like a military medicine program. So we have like a director, assistant director that does like our curriculum and then helps us with our like match process with clerkships and like just getting the word out and meeting other military physicians to be like mentors and stuff.

That's great. I think that's super helpful information because you know, for our listeners, again, that's something that's really scary when you're looking at some of these do schools and you look at that sticker price and you just think, oh my God, like that is going to take me forever to pay off. So that's a really great way for, you know, people to not take out all that debt.

How did do you know the numbers? Like exactly. So if I were to just take out loans, go to do school and then have all that debt, like how long would that take me to pay it off versus how long you are serving in the military?

So if you did take out money in the bill over. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah.

I mean it depends on specialty and stuff obviously, but like if I did primary care or something.

So if never literally, if you just go straight in military, I. I was going to say so military residents make about 110, 20,000. So you're making like upwards of. I'm interested in like pediatrics. So it's probably going to end up being my salary is going to be around there. So that's, that would take me forever to pay off. I'd probably spend 30 years trying to pay off loans if I didn't do military because I wanted to do more of a primary care specialty.

Yeah.

So I mean year like years. And I even know like one of my mom's friends who is a family medicine doctor, like she just finished paying off of her loans like I think a couple years ago and she's like 55, 56. So it took her like 20 something years, which is wild. But I definitely think do wise if you don't do HBSP or have another way to somehow get scholarships, I mean you're going to be paying it off for at least 10 years. I mean if you're lucky to go into like neurosurgery or cardiothoracic surgery, make almost a million bucks, I'm sure you could pay it off a little bit faster. But yeah, it's definitely one caveat of school.

Yeah, I guess like just going into the specialties, I, and if I say anything that's wrong, like correct me because I'm just coming in from the impression like I don't know a lot, you know, and like I want our listeners to also like learn a lot. So I think that when you're looking at where do students match to, it's more primary care specialties. Was that something that you considered when choosing a do school? Were you like, okay, I don't think I'm super interested in going into something super competitive or super specialized. And is that even true?

Yes. So it's. Yeah, it's kind of true. I think like stereotypically nowadays it's not as like, not as true. I feel like as it was maybe like 15 years ago, I guess I'm bouncing. I really want to either do like emergency medicine, pediatrics. I knew I had no interest in surgery. I had no interest in like nothing really highly specialized. So I was like, I don't need to go to a school that's like I don't need to go to Harvard. I'll be okay. So that definitely probably was a factor. It's interesting nowadays though, I have noticed like a lot more like again me being uneducated in this department as well. Literally until I was a junior in college, I, I did not know that dos could be surgeons. I was like oh, like you can't be a surgeon if you're a do. And literally one of the surgeons I shadowed, she is a female vascular surgeon and she's a do. So I learned that you definitely can be a do and do surgery again. That just goes to. So how much like misinformation is out there about dos? Because I literally had no idea. But yeah, nowadays I think amore Dios, like especially with the match that just happened. What was it yesterday? This whole. Yeah, yeah, I've seen a lot of dos that match dermatology, which is really hard as a do. A lot of dos that matched, even like orthopedic surgery, which there's a ton of kids at my school interested in that for really niche. But a ton of people are. I definitely think nowadays you're shifting more towards it doesn't matter. And I've heard that from physicians, older physicians too, that like I have shadowed that are like nowadays it really used to matter if you were a DO or an MD, but now it's actually was in 2023, I believe DOs are now nationally recognized across all states. And like we're now recognized in Australia, a couple like European countries, because I didn't even know you couldn't even practice apparently in like other countries as a deal, it wasn't recognized. So I think with the, like, I could be wrong about that, but with the like nationalization, I guess of what a do is, I think you can go into more competitive parts possibly. But yeah, my school in particular really focuses on primary care. So we have about 50% of our students match primary care, whether it's beads, family med, internal med. So yeah, I guess it doesn't really matter. But yeah, no, yeah, I, I mean.

I think there's MD schools too that emphasize that anyway before, because I do kind of want to get into like specifics and like what your life has been like as a first year student. Do you feel like. And this could be wrong as well. Do you feel like you have to do more extra things, like more research and more things like that to kind of try to get a leg up? Do you know what I'm saying?

Yes, I totally understand what you're saying. I think especially for people want to go in like more like dermatologist is a really good example. Just a specialty that's extremely competitive. A lot of people do, I guess, do research. In my school, I personally am like, I am most likely going to go in a field that is very underserved, that's always like 800 spots unfilled. Personally don't have any interest in research, which I should probably do something, but it's just not something that, like, speaks to me. So I think I'm a little lucky. Just in the sense with the military track. I'm like, guaranteed a job no matter what. Like, they're gonna have to put me somewhere. And they really do help at our school. I'll get, like, a military, like, dean's letter that helps me get placed somewhere. So I personally don't think I need to do, like, extra just because I feel like I kind of already am doing a little bit extra. But for somebody not in the position that I was In, I would 100% like. A lot of people volunteer at the hospitals around here just as, like, patient transporters or, like, desk like people. And then a lot of people do as well do research just to help, like, build up their resume. Comparing to, like, any other MD applicants but our school does, we will all take steps. I'll take Step and I'll take Complex. So we'll do. Just to be able to be compared. If. When I'm applying to residency, you can't really take a Comlex score and a Step score and be like, okay, how are these? Are these applicants equal? But if I take step, it's way easier to do that. So most of us here do take step, so hopefully that will help. But yes, if I wasn't doing all the extra stuff that I do, I would need to do, like, research or something else just to help boost my resume.

Yeah. But for primary care. Yeah, you really don't need that.

And I mean, that's the same everywhere. If you want to do dermatology. Like, if you do dermatology. Most of the people that I know take a. Take a gap research here.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

So I mean, that's everywhere too. Go ahead.

Sorry, can I. I just wanted to. Can you just elaborate about the tests? Because I do think that's one important thing is that because you're required as dos to take the. What's. What is it called again? Kopaxi.

It's called Comlex. Oh, isn't that like a virus?

No, Coxackie. Coxackie virus.

Coxsackie virus, I think is like a backpack.

Sorry, go on.

Yeah, so we're required to take Comlex, so that's how we're like, board certified as a do. And the difference between Comlex and Step is Comlex has OMM on it. So I'll have, like, a ton of questions on osteopathic Manipulative medicine and treatments like hvla, whatever and like diagnosing somatic dysfunction. So that's the difference. But I do think Step is more like pharma farm heavy and there's like a few other things that aren't emphasized so much on comics. So we have to take Comlex and then what I'll most likely do is I'll actually take Step first and then you like wait a week, you like drill omm and then you take Complex. So that's probably what I'll do. I think that's what a lot of kids at my school are doing. So something along those lines.

So that is just important to know that if somebody decides to go the DO route, you do have to take other exams that because in for MD you don't have to take the Comlex. So just, you know, there's kind of making that, making that clear to.

Yes. And as a do, you don't have to take Step at all. I personally am just because it makes me a more competitive applicant without having to do like all the extra research and stuff. If I just have a STEP score, it's just a little bit easier to compare me as an applicant. But yeah, as a D.O. student you only have to take Comlex. That's your only required. But you can totally take Step if you want to. Okay.

So kind of getting into specifics, you mentioned that you compare with your friend who's at an MD school a lot. What are some things that you thought were going to be different that are similar and some things that you think thought were going to be similar but are different?

Yes. So I did not realize that and neither did he. He goes to just an MD school in North Carolina. And one day I think it was like the first month of school we were comparing like what blocks we were in. I have noticed the block distribution is very different. I think he has a lot of and you might as well courses that are combined like for eight, nine week blocks. My longest block is coming up, it's Neuro and it's going to be four weeks and that's the longest block that I've had so far. Normally our blocks are about two, two and a half weeks, which is really nice. So that I thought was really interesting. So it's like he has a lot more, I guess like more in depth maybe on concepts that like we're not doing. That was interesting. Another thing that I thought was really interesting. And this also could just be particular to the school that he actually goes to, not like MD in general. But I've already had about 10 standardized patients. We do one or two a month, which is really cool. So we have a really cool sim center where we have like volunteers actually. I think they get paid.

Yeah, I think they make like, like decent money, pretty good money. So they deserve it because we're just hammering. I mean not hammering away, but you know what I'm saying.

Exactly. So we do about. I've already had like 10 of those, which is really cool. And he, I think only had, I guess last time I talked to him I think was like the end of February and he only had two sps or standardized patients. So that was something I thought was really interesting. I do know though that certain schools just emphasize like clinical skills really early on versus other ones. So that honestly could just be the difference. But that was really cool. And then I like, I use scholarrx, like a lot of our lectures and like bricks that I'm reading. He thought that was so cool that I'm also reading the USMLE bricks as well, like as part of our content. Because again, like going into do school I like knew a little bit, but I really learned a lot once I got here. I thought that we just did like completely different stuff. I didn't even think that we like covered the same material in our blocks. But like we're pretty much learning the same thing side by side. We just have like our extra like OMM course that we do. So that was kind of cool.

So when you say your blocks are, is it still like you do a cardio block, you do a GI block, you do a renal. So it's still like that?

Yeah. So we had, at least for the semester we had GI renal. That was combined for us and that was like, I guess that was four weeks as well. And then we have our ocs, which is osteopathic clinical skills. That's like normally a week. And then we have a thing called CARES at my school, which I think this is also why my blocks are a little bit different. They're like condensed. This is the military medicine that I do. That's the four weeks out of every semester. So we technically have like a two week break, but not really a break. And over those two weeks we, this, we just had it at the end of February. You have everybody in the beginning of the week. You have a couple standardized patients and they'll do like immersion settings. So like you'll have like a hiker who fell in the woods and you have to like help them and then you work with the OMS twos and they like, come in and help with their, like, expanded knowledge and then have like hospital scenarios. Like we had like, patients who code and you have to figure out like, what you do in a code if you've never worked in a hospital before. So that's really cool. And then once those are done, all those events, you have your cares block. So we have the military track. So I'll get to do military medicine for two weeks. Super cool. We do like mass casualty scenarios. At the end of every two weeks. We learn T tric, which is tactical combat casualty care. So, like what you do like on a battlefield, which is really cool because I don't get that in all my other classes. And then like, we take like field trips. Like we went to go see some of the Blackhawks that are in the Montana National Guard, which was really cool. We wear uniforms, if you have your uniforms. So that's also fun to make sure you're like, in regulation and everything. And then we have a research track, so people will work on their research during those two weeks. And then we have a grouped, which is global rural wilderness and like tribal medicine. So we have a ton. We're like right next to the Crow Reservation out here. So they do a ton of stuff with tribal medicine here and wilderness medicine because we are in the middle of nowhere. I live in. I'm in Billings, Montana, which is literally the biggest city in Billings. It's 100,000 people. I grew up in a town of 400,000 people in my county and like a city of like over a million. So it's wild to me here what people think is like a big city. But it's still super cool. So during those two weeks, that block is like the elective block. But then if you don't do a track, you literally get a like 12 day vacation. So that's also a plus. I wish now kind of that I just did that, but I'm really glad I'm at my track. Well, is that.

And that's just once a year then or so.

It's. It's twice a semester, so.

Oh, okay. So you like. So you keep going through those. Okay. Okay. That. That is very different. Yeah.

And it like breaks up blocks. So it was really nice because it was like right after GI renal block and I was like, oh, my gosh. I like cannot look at school right now. So you get like a break.

Okay.

You go back into. Then we just are. We're in endo repro. So endo repro was combined for Us and then now we start neuro after our spring break, which is this week.

Yeah, and, but. And you get a summer or no.

So our summer because of those cares blocks is really condensed. So our. It's only five weeks. I think it's like the middle of June two because we start like July 21st, so it's pretty much a month and like a week. But I'll go to training this summer. So I won't even get a summer, but that's okay because I'll be somewhere warm.

Well, I think that something that is.

Important to consider is that just when you're talking, what's coming to mind for me right now is every school's curriculum is so different, like even MD school. And I was just actually like making a TikTok about this, trying to put this in, in a way that, that helps people to understand. Because I remember last year when I was thinking about like, what schools I wanted to rank where and like where I wanted to go, people were like, look at the curriculum at the school. And I was like, I don't know what that means. Like, I don't know what you're talking about. Like, people are talking about these blocks. But like, what is a block? And like, what do you mean you do like this system. And like that didn't make sense. And now that I'm in it and I understand, then I'm like, oh yeah, I do prefer having four week blocks rather than taking a test every other week or what. But like some people prefer the other thing. But I feel like you really don't know until you get to the school. Just thinking about like I go to school right across the street from Baylor College of Medicine and that we have longer blocks. We have like, it's normally around five weeks average. So we do five weeks of whatever the system is. Like we just had five weeks cardio and then. Or actually cardio was like four weeks. So four weeks of cardio took an exam. Then we're moving on to renal, but Baylor takes the test every other week, so their blocks are a lot shorter. And it sounds a little bit more like your curriculum. But both MD schools and stuff and they don't really get a summer, it's condensed because they start clinicals earlier. And like these are all things that it really, I mean, do Maryland, whatever. I feel like every school just has a really different curriculum, you know?

Yes. And it's so the same thing. People were telling me, look at the curriculum of every school. And I was like, I, like, I literally would try to look online, I'm like, I don't know what I'm at. And it's like for any students that are now like in the application cycle or like trying to apply next cycle and like looking, it really comes down to whether you prefer again, like having the test every other week, which I honestly have grown to like, which I originally I really wanted the like four weeks test. Four weeks test. But I really do like the test every other, every other week because it's like on less content. So I feel like I can know a little bit. Like I'm really only focusing on a week and a half of content versus four weeks to know for like our exam. But that is something that I wish I like knew prior. And I was gonna ask you as well, like if you have like mandatory lecture or do you go like in person every day to school or not?

Yeah. So. Oh, I also want to ask you about anatomy because that's the one thing. So we did anatomy and again, this is so different from every single, even MD school. I was just talking about this today. I was giving some tours to some alumni and even MD schools. Now, like a lot of people don't do, don't even do anatomy. Like some kind of. Yeah, it's crazy. So some people don't even do it. A lot of it is. It is so. It's so, so different from school to school.

So.

But my school, it was mandatory. We had to be there twice a week. And that was from the first day of class until the last day of last semester.

So.

But we did everything, so. And then we also had to be on campus for there were certain mandatory lectures that we had to be at. So honestly, last semester I would say I was on campus for four out of five days of the week. I wouldn't go on Fridays, but I would say Monday through Thursday. Like I would have to be on campus because I would have anatomy or I would have something, a mandatory lecture. And sometimes like especially at the beginning of the semester, I did go to class even if it wasn't mandatory. Now we're done with anatomy, so we don't have to be there to dissect anymore, but we do have to be on campus twice a week for. For problem based learning. A lot of schools have that. So it's just like small groups that you get together and you work through a case. So that's like two hours twice a week. But other than that we have like a, a couple random mandatory lectures that we have to go to so that we keep our accreditation. But like it's, it's not. I would say they normally try to stack them like right before or after our problem based learning sessions. So normally I'm still only on campus twice a week. And then that's, that's just for like pre clinical stuff. And sometimes there's like random other little things, like things and other things. But yeah, that's, that's, that's the gist.

That's insane that anatomy is optional. That blows my mind because after going through anatomy there's no way, like I don't think I'd be half the student that I am today if I did not have to do anatomy. Like so our anatomy, to answer your question, our anatomy actually is for the entire year. So it's an every block that we're in. It's whatever block we're in. So like we just did it, our reproductive dissection because we just finished endo repro and then we'll do all of our neuro this month and then we're done. 12 people share a body, so it's three groups of four. So it's like you have to finish your dissection because someone else to come in the next day to do the other. So it definitely. I'm very happy that my school has anatomy. I think that it was so funny looking into a cadaver and realizing, oh my gosh, everything's not color coded. Arteries are not red, veins are not blue, and nerve bright yellow. So that was super helpful. It's very interesting now that like if I. And also like for people who want to do surgery, it's a great like first exposure to surgery or like to what it would be like to actually like cut into somebody. So that's super interesting. And they even like emphasize that like this is a great way to figure out if this is something that you like.

Just to answer your question about that, I mean we did, we, we did have, you know, gross anatomy lab and did the whole thing. I mean, I think that it's important to, to do it some like, I don't know that you really have to dissect every single little thing. And you guys are talking about like sharing a body with 12 people. I mean we just had like three, three people as a team to a body. And so we had to do like all of the dissections. And in some ways I was like, I don't know that this is, that I'm really gleaning, you know, five hours worth of, you know, information.

Didn't hear Tank mate do all the work anyway.

Okay. Well, we had this one guy who was he. He for some reason thought that we were going to get graded on like how good our dissection was, I guess or he just had a lot of pride in the dissection. He wanted it to be like really, really perfect. And so he would do that sometimes he would show up before the dissection and do a bunch of the dissection before we arrived. And then he's like, oh, well, you know, I just kind of wanted to, you know, I just wanted to get it done and stuff. And we're like, no, no, no, you didn't want us to do it is what was going on there. But we were like, eh, that's fine. Then we could kind of come in and do some of it. Yeah, yeah, we hated him.

But back to like curriculum and that sort of thing. Like or in person classes. How often do you have to be at school?

Yes. So that was another selling point. So the school that I go to is a new branch off campus of rvu. So we have two other locations in Utah and Colorado. So I think the school has been around for like 30, 40 years. But our campus just opened last year. So that's why we have like our cares blocks. That was like a selling point of this campus. And then basically what they wanted to do was Utah and Colorado run very efficiently. They took like the best from those two schools and like combined it into one and then like added a few things to make it cool. So one of the things that they added, which I actually think a ton of schools do this now, but we're in like a flipped classroom setting. So every single lecture is recorded online. So in the mornings you have. They're called SDLs, Student Directed Learning. We watch like anywhere from sometimes only like an hour to maybe like three hours of lecture in the morning. You can do it from home. You can do it. I go to school just because of my dog Moose. I really can't get a lot done here. So I make myself go to school, but I don't have to be on campus if I don't want to be. I watch my lectures. You can also get ahead so they post it like weeks in advance. So not that I would do this. I don't know anyone who would. But like neuro is already posted for me. So like if I really wanted to, I could spend my spring break doing the entire first week of Neuro. I will not be doing that. But I'm sure there are a few classmates who might jump the gun and I'm sure are going to look ahead, but that's kind of cool. So the only thing we have mandatory on campus is anatomy lab. So our anatomy lab is only when we are in the block that's dissecting. So like for endo repro, I think I only had one dissection, maybe two. But we do peer teaching, which I don't know really how effective that is, but.

Oh yeah, no, it was like 15 minutes of us like trying.

Yeah, okay. That makes me feel better because I was talking to the process about it. I was like, this needs to. This doesn't. This does nothing. I just have to be on campus for it. So yeah, we'll do peer teaching. All the groups try to teach each other what they dissected and we have no idea what we're looking at. So it's like the blind being the blind. Exactly. That's always fun for that. So even though I didn't dissect, I normally still have to go in. And then we have. They're called ELS's engaged learning sessions. And they're basically like, you did your homework, you like watch the lectures and you just talk about it. So it's like kind of like problem based learning. But we're just with our entire class and it's all like cases. So it's cases presented, it's questions. They do a ton of like board style questions. We're all due as a class, which is kind of fun. You work like with, with your table and so it's never really lecturing. It's always just like you gotta apply what you already know. So that's really. That really helps me. I really learned well that way. So we have pretty much two of those a week, sometimes three. But then like some blocks you only have like one. So it really just depends on what you're learning. But I'd say I'm on campus probably. I do go every day just because I do my stls in the morning at school. But if I didn't, I probably only have to go to school like twice a week, which is really nice. But yeah, I like the way that they set it up.

When you start doing rotations, you know how that is going to be different than it would be at an MD school.

Yeah. So that's one thing that our school is still kind of figuring out. We are like moving. So most likely it really sucks. And they did not, they didn't make this aware when I applied. I was not aware of this. But I think it's just because where we live in Montana, like Care out here. Like, you got to drive. Like, I'm like, well, I can say the city I'm in, we have two hospitals, but everywhere else, like, you have to drive an hour, an hour and a half to go get any type of care. So our rotation sites are widely spread. So we have like a few in Montana, but I didn't realize the Washington site, School of Medicine, whatever, they actually have a campus in Bozeman, which is like two hours from where I live. And they take a lot of our spots in Bozeman at hospitals because they have like a program here. And then there is another medical school in northern Montana that take pretty much all the north Montana sites. So we really don't have a lot. So a lot of us are going to Wyoming. I think it's majority of where people ended up, South Dakota, Idaho and Alaska. So I don't know where I'll be. I'm really hoping that I get Montana, but we'll see. And then a lot of people are having to move. Actually, this is a great talking point because I think this is really a do school type issue. A lot of DO programs don't have their own academic institution hospitals attached to their program. So, like, I'm sure, like, you'll be able to stay where you are for your third year rotations and then do schools. And I didn't know this actually until like my first day of school here. I had no idea that we didn't have rotation sites here. And I didn't know that it was really common for D.O. students to have to move. So they're still figuring that out. I hope that I get stuck in Montana, but I have a feeling I will be moving to probably Wyoming. But then a lot of people. There's also something called like the adventure track at our school. They're moving like every month. So they go to like Alaska for a month, and then they'll go to Idaho, then they'll go to Wyoming, then Washington, then South Dakota, then Montana, then you're. Exactly. And I'm like, wow, moving every single month with a dog. I would rather not. So, yeah, that is one thing they need to figure out because I don't really know what that looks like actually.

For myself, that's an important point. Especially if somebody has a partner, you know, like that you can't either you're going to be apart from that person or you have to be dragging them around. And so that's especially. We know with the average age of medical students getting older and older. Yes, that's, you know, and so that's just important for those kind of questions to ask, you know, when you are applying, because I think it's easy to get real focused on what happens. Like, first year, you know, you're kind of thinking about that stuff, and you're not really thinking about third and fourth year. And I'm sure there's some MD schools that have similar things where people do have to move around. And so anyway, that's. That's important for people to think about.

Yeah, that was, like, the big thing for the class above me. So they have a lot of people who either have significant others that live here, like, moved with them. They have a lot of people who are. Have children that go to school now in Billings. So that was, like, a big stipulation that, oh, my gosh, we have to uproot our lives. Like, they already did two years ago. Now you're gonna do it again, which is kind of unfortunate. They're trying for our class. We actually have two couples who are engaged in our class. Like, they got into school together, and they came and engaged, which is really interesting. So there's two people who are. Or two couples who are engaged. And there's like. Like, my boyfriend is literally in my class as well, that I met at school. So they're trying to see if they can keep, like, couples together because, again, like, moving, like, I can't. I can barely afford my apartment now on my military salary. I was like, if I move anywhere else, parts of Wyoming are really, really expensive. Like Jackson Hole.

Yes.

Yeah. Extremely expensive and just rural. Like, other areas are just. They're so expensive because there's nothing there. So it's like, I would love to have a roommate or someone who can move with me, take care of the dog. Like, so they're trying to figure all of that out. But that is something really, like, imperative to be aware of as a D.O. student who has a family, boyfriend, girlfriend, kids, pets. Like, it is a big kind of commitment and life change. And my school's been very, very kind about it. They're very accommodating. But there's only so much that they can do. So it's trying to control what you can control. Yeah.

I think that a lot of times they are looking for preceptors a lot at some of the D.O. schools as well. And, like, you know, they'll. I get stuff from the MD Schools asking me to be a preceptor, and they never, like, pay you to be a preceptor. But the DO schools actually offer to pay you to be or some, some places do, you know, to be a preceptor for do students which just kind of, you know, they just need, they just need more of those preceptors. Because again, if you don't have a university hospital right there and then you're trying to just like fan out into the community and find a bunch of people, I imagine that that can be pretty challenging.

Yeah, I think that's an important point too. I remember whenever I would like, I didn't give official college campus tours, but I remember if I was like showing a friend of a friend around or something like that around Clemson, like I would always tell them, make sure you're asking schools what your life is going to look like junior and senior year. Because I remember when I was touring colleges, I was really just thinking about freshman year and I really didn't think about, I was like, people talk about junior and senior year. They're like, oh, I live off campus here. And I was like, I'm not thinking about that. Like, what is my freshman year, your dorm going to look like? And I really tried to think about that of medical school because I remember that. I remember being like, oh, I kind of wish I thought about the second half of my college experience more. I mean it was still great, but I just, it wasn't really something that I was considering. So like, definitely, when you're looking at schools and everything, think about because there are MD schools that I was looking at that they were like, yeah, one, some schools make you move to a different city for the second, like for clinicals and other schools make you kind of drive to all around. Even my school, it's not, not all my rotations are in the same spot. Like they are kind of like all around the Houston area. So it is kind of just like something to you. You want to balance you. You do want to have different exposures to different institutions, but you don't want to have to be driving 50 miles to get to where you need to be.

So yeah, and that was like the other thing they're still trying to figure out like some of the people who got Wyoming again because it's so like dispersed. They're like maybe living in Cody and they're going to have to drive an hour and a half. One way to get to like a hospital. It's like, how do you work work? How do you go to school for a 12 hour shift and then you got, you have to get up at 4am but it's like, how do you have time for anything else. So hopefully they figure that out before I get there. But that is definitely something like, to take into consideration when deciding where to go to school.

Yeah, well, I mean, I. As we're kind of like wrapping up here, I always, you know, I always ask the doctors for advice for medical students starting. But I guess since you're in the same position as me as a medical student, do you have any advice for pre meds, maybe listening who, you know are applying this next cycle or just applied this cycle and maybe are considering. Do schools any advice that you have as they're like about to kind of start their med school journey?

Yes, I would say definitely the biggest advice that I probably have is shadow. Do really learn about what osteopathic medicine is. Again, I kind of knew I didn't really. Now I love it, but I wish I did some more research. Probably going into school definitely just like, look for what you want in a school, what you want your life to look like for those four years, if you find a school that like, can balance that. Because I definitely think, as you have demonstrated and so have I, that you can have a life in med school. School is not your entire life. You can do lots of other things. Have relationships, have pets, have kids, as some of my classmates do. You can have a life. So really finding a school that really fits, like, who you are as a person, I think is one of the best pieces of advice that I could give. But also just there's a school for everybody. I think learning through the amount of schools that I applied to, going Maryland do, figuring out what I wanted to do, I was so worried, oh my gosh, I'm going to get in nowhere. But I promise everybody who's applying this cycle and next cycle, like, there is a school out there for you. I promise. You just have to find it.

I love it. Do you have socials to plug and stuff?

Do I. I was gonna say you need to do.

You're so great at talking in all of this. So like, you do.

You should do a lot of great information for people. Yeah.

So TikTok, I really wish that I like, could. I don't know. I do so many things outside of school. I. I nanny twice a week and I belong to. I used to do CrossFit in college and now like, I'm kind of like with the gym here and then I also do jiu jitsu. So I do a lot of like, active things that I really don't have time. And when I'm on my phone, I just want to dune scroll which is. So I have one Tick Tock that went viral and it was literally about like the military thing. And then I just never really picked it back up. But I was like, my medical school, Tick Tock is the medical life of eg, medical life of emigrese. There's really nothing posted. I have like one video and it's like about HPSP and there's like a few others and that's it. But that's one thing I have then my Instagram is Emma G. Fakara, which is my name. But I don't know. I really wish I had more time. I really should because this is. I love talking, obviously. I love, I'm a big yapper. I love to yap.

So no, yeah. And I mean you'd be so good at it. But also I get just wanting to, I mean, put your time towards other.

Things and yeah, it's, it's actually funny. My mom actually has a podcast. Oh, does Medical device. So she was an np, she was a nurse and she came in a practitioner and now she's in medical device sales. So her and her colleague, they are like one of four or five females in their company. So they literally have a podcast for women and medical device sales.

I love it.

So definitely get my yappiness from her. But I was telling her, but it's a mom and daughter podcast that I'm going on. I was like, just have one. Right?

What's the her podcast called?

I think it's Secrets and Medical Device Sales. And they post, I think they post every Tuesday. They interview a lot of doctors and other like, I think they even interviewed like Color Science, that like dermatology brand. They interview a lot of like really high achieving women. It's actually a really cool podcast.

You guys know where to find us on Instagram @Generations MD and tick tock @Generations MD. And if you have any questions or interested in being a guest on the podcast, you can email us ataskgenerations mdmail.com and we will talk to you next week. Bye guys.