Episode 84 - Ray Catania, Atheist Dies and Decides to Come Back, Metaphysical Teacher, Author, NDE

The world won't understand you. Hello, everybody. Welcome to episode 84 of In a Good Way podcast. Today's special guest is Ray Catania. He is an acclaimed author, metaphysical teacher, theorist and coach. He is a survivor of a near death experience in NDE and has dedicated his life to helping others achieve their full potential. Thank you so much, Ray, for being here. It's an honor.

Omar, the honor is all mine and a privilege. Thank you so much for having me today.

Absolutely. Thank you so much. So we'll get into your nd amongst other other stories that, that I'm really looking forward to you sharing. But first, I always like to start with my guests. In the beginning, you know, I know, you know, you were an atheist. So prior to that, I guess growing up, there were no hints of anything. Were you experiencing anything? Seeing imaginary friends or.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, see, here's the thing. When I was growing up, I was growing up in a Christian home. And so that was like you had to accept that as being your religion. You know, it wasn't like I had a choice, but so I was rebelling against that. And I'll tell you why. It's kind of, you know, the childhood that I had really wasn't very pleasant. You know, there was a lot of drama, trauma, fighting, and, you know, just a lot of chaos in that home. And, and so I started to. Well, first and foremost, I really couldn't believe that there was going to be this loving God that would allow a lot of these things to occur that I saw at a very young age throughout the rest of my life. So there was that aspect, but there was also the rebellious side of me that was, you know, whatever my parents believed, I wasn't going to go along with just simply because I, you know, that's the rebellious individual that I was. Um, so I took on atheism, probably not even understanding quite what it was. But again, like I said, I could not accept that there's a loving God. And, you know, why does God love us more than others? Like, why are we celebrating Thanksgiving? And we can eat everything we want and on the other side of the world, they don't have any food. That just doesn't. He loves Americans more. That doesn't make any sense to me. So, you know, so I just really rebelled against that. And. But like I said, the tumultuous childhood that I had forced me to like, isolate myself. And it would be like every night after dinner before, you know, the, the fighting began, I would try to hide, and I'm talking about Five, six, seven, eight years old. And I would lock myself in my room or I would hide in the basement or the yard or wherever I could go where I'm not going to be noticed because I don't want to get involved in what's happening. I don't want to be a part of it. So I'm trying to avoid it to the best of my ability. And now when you isolate yourself for hours and hours day after day after day, it's kind of like a form of meditation for many hours, day after day after day. So things that, you know, would happen to the yogis who practice this long time, long term meditations. I started to be able to see. Now I, I don't, I don't know what's happening. I'm just a kid. Right. But like you said, imaginary friends. Yeah. I started to see and feel energy that was around me because I'm in this very small, confined place and I'm trying to not be present in my body because I don't like where I am. And, and when we go through trauma, a lot of times we can escape the trauma by allowing our minds to escape our body. So I started to learn how to do this and I learned that today I understand that the mind is separate from the body and you can detach and you will when you die, I mean, we all will. That mind will be your spirit or your soul and that will leave your body. But you can learn to do that now. And people have had out of body experiences and they can tell you that that's a, that's what happens. So you know, that was, that was the beginning. That was where atheism originally came from. Was that childhood.

Oh, wow. But so even though you were experiencing these things because atheists basically believe there's no God, no anything, right?

Correct. But I was a kid, so I'm just confused. Like I don't really know what I'm, I don't think that I'm. What I'm seeing is anything supernatural. I just think anybody can do this. It's in, it's my imagination and I'm just making this happen. And you know, they're my imaginary friends like you said. So I don't really think much of it at the time.

Oh, wow. So leading up to, you know, you didn't have your nd till you were 20, right?

Correct.

So between that time, like you said, your household was very Christian, so they believed in different things. Right. And somehow that's not wearing off on you, right?

No, I mean, like I'm going through the motions and I do all my sacraments and I'm doing what they want me to do because there's no choice. But, you know, for me, it's just things that I just have to do. And again, I never associate that the things that I was seeing were anything that were more than my imagination. And, you know, and because I had this type of rebellious attitude and I came from a place of chaos, as I grew up into my teens and my twenties, I took the chaos with me because I. That's what I understood the best, right? Like, if things were normal and I was in a normal place, then I don't know how to navigate that as well as I do if everything's crazy, because I understand crazy that, you know, chaos, chaos is my comfort zone. I know how to navigate that. So I would take jobs where they were chaotic or I would hang out with friends that, you know, probably weren't people that I should have hung out with or people that I worked for and things of that nature. So I was in harm's way because I was always in harm's way. And that's what I understood the best. So these are things that obviously I learned much later in life. And my ND I was 20 like you said, and I was still living at home. My parents. And my bedroom was on the second floor and the first floor, right underneath my bedroom was the kitchen. And so the stove that was there ran on natural gas and there was a gas leak and natural gas rises. So it was coming up into my bedroom overnight while I was sleeping. And no one know, no one noticed. So in the morning, my mother came down and I guess she was, you know, about to cook breakfast or whatever and turns on the stove. And there was, like, the way I understand, there was a big ball of flames and the wall caught on fire and there was a lot of smoke. She didn't get injured. And my father was able to put it out pretty quickly. So it really wasn't a big fire. But it wasn't the fire or the smoke that that got me. It was the gas, like it was that that was rising up and I was breathing it in all night long for I don't know how many hours. So the fire trucks come, the police department, and I hear the sirens and I hear all this commotion downstairs. So I try to get out of bed to see what's going on, and I find that I really. I can't move much of my body. Like my legs felt like they were a thousand pounds, and I just couldn't they would. They were like lead, you know, and I couldn't like, just move them and I couldn't yell for help for like, I couldn't get my, like, I don't know why, but I just couldn't get my mouth to work. Like, very unlike me. But, you know, so what I, what I had was my arms and I pulled myself to the side of the bed and I figured, you know, this is how I'm going to get out of bed. I'm just going to pull myself and pull myself and finally I get to the edge and I tumble out. And when I do, I fell down face first on, on. On the ground. And here's what's really interesting about. I hit the ground face first, but I didn't feel any pain. And this was very strange to me in the moment. But it's only a millisecond later that I noticed I'm above my body now and I'm looking down and I'm not moving. Like I'm on the floor face down. I see the blood and I'm looking at myself, but I'm not in there. I'm an observer of myself now. And I'm in the corner of the room, like a neutral corner kind of looking down at an angle at my body being on the floor next to the bed. And then adjacent to me, the opposite corner is where the light is, is like a spotlight. It's this huge white spotlight that's shining on my energetic self. Not my dead self, but me, the what's left of me. And I'm like. I feel like this is so hard to explain, but the light is euphoric and it's. And it. And it's like. It feels like love and it feels like compassion and it feels like I'm part of the light. It doesn't feel like, like the lights on me as much as it feels like I'm commingled into the light. You know what I mean? So like I can just float as a part of this light into it. And there's a being at the end that's. That says to me. And I don't mean says like spoke. It's like. I don't even know how to explain the communication, but it's just. I just know he's saying it's okay to come into the light, it's safe to come into the light. And for some reason I believe him and I start to go into the light. And now the euphoria increases the more I go into the light, even if it's just a couple of feet more. I feel it more. And so it's in this moment, as I start to go through this. The. The tunnel. I want to go to the other side. I want to see what's there. And now my father comes in, and he kicks the door open, and he. And he. And he rushes to me, and he picks me up in his arms, and. And he's screaming and crying for the paramedics. And I'm watching him hold me in his arms, going, my son, my son, my son. And, you know, we didn't have a good relationship. Like, I. I doubted that this man even cared. And then all of a sudden, I'm seeing this outpour of love and compassion that I had never seen before. And so I want. I. I wanted to go back to that. Like, that was something I always wanted. I wanted to have that kind of relationship with my dad. And I didn't. And. And so I asked the being who said it was okay to come into the light. I said, is it okay if I go back? Because I can't leave him like that. That's the way I phrased it. Like, making it about him and not about me. And I don't know. I think I'm negotiating or whatever, but the bottom line is, yeah, I get to go back. But when I wake up and I come to, I'm not in that room anymore or in his arms. I'm. Now I'm laying on the living room floor, and I'm looking up at paramedics, and they're. They got all their tools and equipment, and they're just moving a mile a minute, and I'm like, whoa, what's going on? Like, why are you touching me? What's. What's happening? I feel great. Get off me. Get off me. And they're like, you're not great. You're not even close to great, so stop moving. And I'm like, but. But did you see the light? Did you. Did you hear the voice? Did you see that? And they start looking at one another like, all right, this guy's. You know, he's either crazy or on drugs. And I just shut up, because here we are again. Like, when I told people about my imaginary friends, nobody believed me then. Nobody's going to believe me now. I'm just going to shut down and shut up. And so they took me to hospital, and I was let go the next day. But that. That feeling, that euphoria that you have, it stays with you for a while, and you're kind of like, in just this beautiful space feeling, you know, like I. I know I'm back, I'm here, I'm back here. And I'm trying to figure out what the heck was that that I just saw. And when the feeling goes away, though, like I. I fell asleep and I woke up and then I realized, like I was really in my body. And it just feels like a bomb went off. Like all the pain that you have from little injuries throughout your whole life, that they bother you a little bit, right? They were magnified times 10. Because when you're not in your body and you're just energy, there's no pain at all. You can't feel like that little sprain in your pinky that, you know, when you were playing basketball and you smashed your pinky, you know, like that's gone. And then when you come back, that pain is magnified by 10 because, you know, it. You didn't, you weren't experiencing it. Now it's like very prevalent. So it really hurt to come back. And that. That's a lot of things that. Eventually I spoke to others who had the experience and they said the same thing. They were like, yeah, the pain is like terrible when you come back. So when you come back, you're like, all you want to do is go back into that light, you know, because it was. I never had that relationship. My father, he went right back to the way he was. Right. I feel like complete crap. And all I wanted. I just want to do over. I want to go back to the light. Because the light is everything. The light is beautiful.

So after you came back, your dad went back to the way he was?

Yeah, yeah. It was like, it was like a non event in my house. Like my mother denied. Oh, it wasn't that bad. Stop it. Stop that. You know, that's just the way, you know, that's the way my family was. It was like, you know, we don't talk about stuff that's, you know, nothing. You're fine. Just stand. Just. You're fine. Stop it. Stop overreacting. And it wasn't until, honestly until the book was released that my mother actually opened up to me. And she was about 80 years old when I released the book. And she said, you know, we really had a heart to heart in that time, my father's long past. And she said, you must hate me. I said, I don't hate you at all. I said, I completely understand. If I lost my kid on my watch, I would have denied it too. I would have said it never happened. And she Went on to tell me that I had actually died three or four times. They had to resuscitate me. It wasn't just the one. I didn't even know that part. So she started telling me things that she remembered that I didn't even know about. So we had a real good. I'd say we're closer today than we've ever been as a result of airing this all out.

Why your book mostly focuses on the NDE or even you go.

No, it's really the first book. The Atheist in the Afterlife is about the transition. It's less about the NDE and more about how I changed from being an atheist and thinking that life was a joke, you know, and that, you know, we just live, we die and it's over. And going through the transition of being a person who did not care if he lived or died to a person that believes in not only living, but living in a good life, that one that we have to help other people. And everything about my life changed. And it's also about coming from nothing, and I mean less than nothing. Like I wasn't given anything. We didn't have money, we didn't have stuff. And I overcame, you know, all of that and became successful and had two kids and, and, and fell in love and, and everything. You know, just. I made these things happen because I started to understand that there is more to this world than what we, what you know, we see every day and, and what we see on TV and, and you know, so it's about overcoming those things. And I'm not special. Believe me when I tell you, you I am. I'm not special. I'm not chosen. I am none of those things. I am no different than anybody else. I just had a different set of circumstances that forced me to look at the world in a different respect. That's all.

Okay, now because I feel that. Why? No, I know, like maybe you feel like it's not a special thing. I think it is. I think that's just my opinion, obviously. Right, like, because then you're able to. Well, do you feel like it was a choice or was this pre planned? Like, do you feel like in that sense it's not special? Because were you shown like so many NDE experiencers that I, you had already pre planned it, so. Oh no, okay.

I didn't know even remember now in those days we didn't have computers yet, we didn't have cell phones. So even after the event occurred, I had nowhere to go to find out what happened to me. So I Didn't have a way to put that into a context and explain it to anybody. And, and when I tried, like the one or two times with my, with my mom, that was, that, that didn't go over good at all. So I just put it in a box and I suppressed the whole idea. And this is the way I, I, I mentally chalked it up like this. My analytical mind comes into play, right? And I figured, okay, so when it happened, I fell in front of a window and it was probably a sunny day, and the sun that was shining through that was the white light. And I was inhaling gas fumes all night long. So I was probably so high that I was hallucinating the voice and the being that was telling me everything else, right? So that's how I chalked it up. And so to, to make it a non event to the best of my ability. But in the back of my mind, like that euphoric feeling and that love and that, that, you can't, you can't fake that, you know, and, and trust me, after that, I did a lot of drugs to try to get back there. And there's no, nothing that can mimic that feeling. And so, you know, in the back of my mind, I kind of knew that there was more to life, but I had no reason to live, right? Because I'm a young guy, I got no kids, I'm not in love, you know, I'm working for some shady characters. I'm putting myself in harm's way day in, day out. And I don't care, I don't care if I die, because I know what happens when I die. Whatever it is, it looked okay to me. So I would live fearlessly. And that's not, obviously not a good way to live. And somehow I made it through all these events that I talk about in the book. And that same being that was there during the NDE would show up and tell me how to escape the real near death experiences. Like the times when I didn't actually die, they call an NDE a near death, right? But that's a real death, that's not near death. A near death is like when a bullet flies over your head and it just misses you. That's a near death where I come from. So, and I was having events like that. Like one time at work, I was, I was after hours, we were in a nightclub and, you know, I was getting some bottles from under the bar and I hear pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. And there's like, there's obviously gunfight right around Me in the bar. And the being tells me, side door, side door, side door. And I'm like, I can't get to the side door. It's all the way down there. The shooter's gonna see me or shooters or whatever's going on, because I don't know, I'm like, hidden under the. Under the bar right now. And he keeps saying, side door, side door. So I got nothing to lose. I go for the side door and I make it out that one. But it doesn't end there because you have to make a left and go down this long corridor that was like 4, 40, 50ft and then get to another side door and to. To get outside. So I made it. Obviously, I got through the door. And this is what was really remarkable. If that wasn't enough that my car was parked right outside that door, and I never, ever parked there. Never. I had my own special parking spot, and it was on the other side of the building. And for some reason I chose not to use it. And I put my car right outside that door and I got away. So there. And there was like, probably, you know, at least six or seven events like that that are in both books that I talk about where this being was there for me and told me how to not die. And I don't know why. I mean, someday maybe I'll know. I don't know who that is. I. I can't really. I say he, but I don't know if it's a male or female. There's no body or shape to this. This guide. I call him my guide. And he's still around, like, so. And I've learned to, like, have a little more communication with him. So he's been there time and time again, helping me not die in really bad situations.

Wow. No. And that was going to be my next question. If you're. If you've ever been able to see what. What this guy looks like or anything, and you haven't. And what about the imaginary friends? When you were younger, were you able to see?

So, yeah, that. Well, here's what happens with that. So they. Now I'm. I'm. When I was a kid, right, So I could kind of communicate a little bit with energy. I could feel it. And. And I knew it was unusual. And now crossing over to the other side and coming back, it's almost like I'm a portal, right? Like that I open the door to all type, you know, energies are just, like, flowing through. And I remember a little bit after the nde, I had moved into My own apartment. And I was all excited because my first. It's my bachelor pad. It's my first place I ever had in my life, right? And I'm like, this is gonna be great. You know, chicks and parties and everything. This is going to be the hangout place. This would be great. And none of that ever, ever transpired because from the day I moved in, like the day I got there, I open up the door and it would feel like it was filled with people already, but there was nobody there. And I could feel emotions in the room. I could feel like I was being watched. I could feel these very, very strange things that I had no explanation for at all. And then, you know, because I can't communicate yet and I can't interpret what I'm seeing, I try to just block it out to the best of my ability. And anything electrical they can mess with really well, right? They could turn lights on and off, TV channels, TV on and off, the blender on and off. I. I would, like, make toast. And then it was. It was never made. And the alarms. I would set the alarm, it would go off. I would set it again, it would go off. I must have called the maintenance guy like, 150 times, because I said, nothing works in my house. Nothing works in my place. And he's like, kid, everything works in Europe. You're nuts. And here. Here it is again. Like, everybody's telling me I'm always crazy. This is just keep as a pattern in my life. You're crazy. You're crazy. You're crazy. So I remember even having a phone call with my friend in that apartment. And we had landlines. Keep in mind, we had land. We had cell phones now, but they're like $2aminute to talk on. So we're not talking on them yet. I'm showing my age here.

I remember. I remember the big.

Yeah, the big. The big thing, right? You remember? So New Jack City, right? Yeah. The guy had a big phone.

No, I had a neighbor that had one. You know, I don't know, you know, one at such a young age, but, you know, one of those block phones, you know?

So I'm on a landline, and I'm talking to my friend, and. And I'm like. And this is the f. Like, I don't believe in this stuff. But I'm saying I think my house is haunted. And the phone goes click. And I. I call him back and I said, why? Yo, Paulie, why'd you hang up on me? He goes, I didn't hang up. On you. You hung up on me. And I said, no, you hung up on me. Click. I call him back and this keeps going on. I said, so I think my house is. Click. And I'm like, are you guys kidding me? They wouldn't let me sleep, they wouldn't let me make a phone call, they wouldn't let me do anything. So I start using copious amounts of drugs and alcohol to knock myself out just because I had the worst case of insomnia, I could never fall asleep, so I literally had to knock myself out. And then I move into the next place because I'm like, I, I gotta get out of here. I move into the next place thinking it's gonna be different. Nothing is different. I get to the, the other place and it's the exact same thing, just a new set of walls, you know. So now I'm like, I don't know, I don't know if I'm crazy, I don't know what's going on. Now I become addicted to drugs and alcohol. I'm a regular user. And this goes on for, you know, probably the next eight years or so as I approach the age of 30. And it was around then when I got married and I had two kids, my two sons, and I always wanted to have two sons. And when I did and I held, you know, I have them in my arms and I'm like, I have to change everything because now I got a reason to live now I can't live recklessly. I can't be on drugs, I can't be working for these people. I have to get my life on track. I checked myself into rehab, I went back to college, got my degree, I got a real job in the city, worked my way up, did very well, and just pushed the other things to, to the side, you know, these, these beings. Okay, you know, whatever it is that's around me, you know, I'm just ignoring it and like taking it like it's a regular day to day. But now I got this reason for living and it's them. And I have to really change every single thing about my life. And that's what I do. I don't know any other person who ever drove themselves to rehab, gave the person the keys and said, don't let me out, do not let me out until I'm clean and sober. And I have been since. So I have this newfound purpose and I'm leading a good life and my marriage falls apart quickly, unfortunately, but, or, you know, that was just, you know, that, that was still in I think it was like two years or something. And I got sober after that, so maybe that, you know, was. Probably had a lot to do with it. But anyway, you know, I still had the kids, right? And. And so I'm. I'm working hard and I'm. I'm doing everything, giving everything to them that I didn't have. And I don't just mean materialistically, but I mean, like, I listen to them, I talk to them, I tell them I love them, I hug them every day. You know, that now they're in their 20s and I them, I love them and I hug them and I don't let them leave the door until that happens. So it's a different life that they've had than what I had. In fact, they knew nothing until the book came out. And before I released it, I had to sit them down and, you know, go through a lot of these things with them. So later, as they start to get older, and I think that they can handle the fact that I. I'm thinking about dating again and having a real relationship. You know, I had a couple things here and there, but they. I never introduced them to anybody until I. I wanted to get serious, and I felt that they were old enough to understand that. So it's way later in my life. I'm in my 40s at this point, and I'm gonna decide, okay, I'm gonna date somebody and hopefully meet somebody and get serious. And so now in. In those days, and still in these days, you know, we go online and that's how we meet somebody. We go to one of those websites, right, and we pick to join and, you know, hope that it's going to work out. And so I was kind of going through the different websites that are out there, and whenever a guy like, or probably women too, when you go on to the site, they give you, like. Like four women that live in my area to try to get me to join, you know, that they think I might like. And so one of the quote unquote examples, I looked at her and I just, like, I was like, oh, my God, that's my wife. That's my wife right there. That's my wife. Like, I know in here that that is my soulmate. There's no question about it. I know that's her. And so I joined the site to send one email and one email only. And I told her, I said, this is the only email I'm sending, and I'm sending it to you. And, you know, that's because you're My wife. You just don't know it yet. And by the way, my name is Jay. Nice to meet you. And I. And I did it in a funnier way than that. And I actually copied and pasted it and put it in a book. And, you know, she. She thought it was funny. And she's like, who. Who the hell are you? We went on that first date, and we are still today together and married. And I was right. She's my wife. And. But when we first meet and start to date, here's where things get crazy again. Because the. Everything I had kind of like going back to the energies now, I had it kind of like, in a place where it wasn't intrusive, right? So I was able to get through my day. I was able to sleep and, you know, and then after I met her, this is the first time in my life ever, that one of these energies. I can see, like, a person, like. Like the shape of an actual human being. Before that, they're just lines and feelings and a vibe. It's never been a person. And I'm not seeing this with my eyes. It's. You still get that same feeling. But then it's like, it's in here. It's my third eye, where a movie screen kind of, like, opens up in my mind. And on that screen is this guy. And he's almost front and center, like, which is, I've later learned, is really, really difficult for them to do. But this guy was powerful. And. And I see him. He's a big guy, husky guy. He's got a beard and a mustache, thick black hair. And he says, I effed up. I made a mistake. You can help her. I cannot. I don't know what that means. I don't know who this guy is. I don't know anything other than I think I'm crazy. Now I'm really losing my. You know what? Because I see something. What I think to be a person who's not there. So he comes to me on a Friday, and I remember this because I was at work, and I left work, and I said I had a headache. I was like, I got to get out of here. You know, I just don't feel well today. And I went home, and by the next day, I start seeing him, what feels like every hour on the hour. Like, it's just. I'm sure that's not 100 accurate, but it just seems like he's there again, and he says the same thing. I effed up. I made a mistake. You can help her. I Cannot. Over and over and over. And by Sunday.

Real quick, so. So he did use a swear word, right?

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

I don't know if you. I can say that on your show. So I don't know.

Yeah, you're good. You're good. Just because. Oh, no. But I'll tell you after a while, but go ahead.

I don't want to make you bleep me, you know. So, yeah, you know, I effed up. I made a mistake. You can help her. I cannot. And he would just say this again and again and again and on Sunday. By Sunday, it felt like it was every five minutes. So it was like every time my mind was idle for any reason, I could be driving and I'm at a red light, and there he is again. And the light turns green, and I'm still just sitting there, and people are beeping at me, and I'm like, oh, wake up. Wake up. Okay, okay. And I remember, like, the breaking point on Sunday was I drove to a store and I was buying some stuff, and I had it on the counter and the lady was ringing me up. So my mind's idle again, and I got my card in my hand and I see him again. And I don't know what I did or said, but obviously it was very strange because the lady behind the counter says, sir, are you okay? And I said, no, no, I'm not okay. And I took my car and I went back to my car and I sat there for a moment and I was like, jesus, I work so hard. I work so hard to get my life in order, meet the person I love, raise my kids the right way. And now I'm dealing with insanity. I'm crazy because I understand what that is. I do not understand what, you know, somebody coming from the other side talking to me is. I have no understanding of that. I'm crazy. That's what I was told my whole life. So now it's just gotten worse to the point where I can't function. I can't drive, I can't talk to people. I can't do anything. And I start thinking about, well, I have to make arrangements for my kids. I have to make sure that financially they're going to be okay. I have to make sure I have my will. I have to make sure I have my dnr. I have to make sure I have all the paperwork that you need when you're going to. When it's the end, while I'm still competent. And this is where my head's at. And I do. And I call my brother, make sure he's got all these things. And while I'm still able to. So I'm literally thinking that this is the end of my life and I have to now tell this woman that I just fell in love with. I just found my soulmate. Like, it's just like every time things are going right, man, boom, you just give it to me again. And. And I just, I just. I'm like, all right, I gotta tell her. And to make this story even crazier than what it already is, my wife is a doctor of psychology and neuropsychology. I'm gonna tell a doctor of psychology. I see dead people. Yeah, this is going to be great. This is going to be great for any relationship. So I tell her because she, you know, she has the right to know. She's got a right to move on with her life and, you know, forget about me, I'm nuts. I'm going to the nuthouse. And I figured like this, she'll probably know a doctor that she could refer me to and give me a referral and say, never call me again and be on our way, right? But that's not what happens. That's not what happens at all. And this is how I know we're soul mates. And she stops when I tell her. I effed up, I made a mistake. You can help her. I cannot. I'm just like so tired of even like thinking this. And she's like, whoa, that sounds like my dad. And I said, I said, hon, listen, your dad's dead. You told me he's been dead for a long time. And she's like, I know. And she's getting excited and I'm like thinking, okay, you're friggin nuts. And I'm getting out of here. Check please. So the roles are completely reversed, but she's like, no, no. She goes, relax, I've been to mediums. And my dad comes through exactly the way you just described him. He's always like, right in front and he has this very prominent message and it's very easy for the mediums to get. And, And I said, but this guy I saw, I told you he was stocky, beard, mustache, thick black hair. And, and, and the picture I saw, the. There's only one picture I ever saw. This man did not resemble this guy at all. And she's like, oh, well, that was a very, very old picture. Let me show you what he looked like before he died. And he was. He died young. He died like 50. So she shows me the picture And I'm like, holy. You know this guy? She's like, that's my dad, silly. And now I don't know what to do. Like, my heart just goes into my pit of my stomach. I don't know what a medium is. I don't even understand this stuff. I'm still trying to cling to atheism because that makes sense to me. Insanity makes sense to me. What does not make sense to me is dead people talking to living people. That makes no sense to me.

How old were you at this point?

I'm 46, about 48.

And you still weren't like, hell, no.

No, no, no. I had just come to terms that, you know, if I'm losing my mind, I'll navigate this. And. And. And I just thought that this was like, this is it. This is the big one now you're schizophrenic. You're done. And so. But I'm. I'm open to the possibility, okay? So she says to me, she goes, why don't we do this? There's a medium that's a very prominent, powerful medium. She's going to come to our city soon in our area. Why don't I make two appointments, one for you, one for me, and we'll. But you can go in first, or I can go in first and, you know, you guys can, like, kind of talk shop. And if this is what it is, she'll tell you, right? And I said, that sounds like a great idea. Now I know this is why this is my soulmate. So she literally saves my life with this, because I go in and I meet the medium, and I say to the medium, and I'm. I. I said, I'm not here for a reading. She goes, I know. And I said, you know. You know? She goes, yeah. I said, well, hi, my name's Ray. And she goes, I know. She said, what's going on, Ray? And I said, I'm crazy. I see people there. And she goes, I know, me too. And then she says, how does it happen? Tell me very calmly. Thank God she was so calm, right? And she says, tell me how it happens. And I go step by step. I tell her about the vibrations. I tell her about the change in the room. I tell her about the lines that I can see. And then the movie screen opens up inside my mind, and she goes, stop. And I said, wow. And she said, that's exactly the way I see it. She says, in fact, that's the way we all see it. And I was like, really? So, like, this Is. This is real. And it was like a huge weight was lifted off my shoulder, kind of. But then another weight is on because now I'm thinking, what are my responsibilities? What are my obligations? Why can I do this right? What. Why was this even. Why is this a thing in my life? And all my friends, you know, they're just going about their lives, blah, blah, blah. And she says, they're unconscious, living in an unconscious place. You're conscious. And I was like, I have no idea what you're talking about, lady. But luckily, she took me under her wing for that first year and she saved me, man. She taught every time, like, these things would happen, I could pick up the phone, I could call her and I could say, this is what just happened. What do I do? You know, Blah, blah, blah. And I had her for a good year before I met my. My second mentor, which was a game changer also. And that was my wife. The. The year of the next year, it was my birthday where. And she said, what do you want to do for your birthday? And I said, well, I said, I don't really know. She goes, well, you know, you want to go to, like, an island? You want to go to a beach, or, you know, why don't we go away and we'll do something fun? And I was like, okay, well, I just want to be, like, in the middle of nowhere with a lot of trees. And she's like, so no Aruba, no Baha? I was like, no, no, no. I just want to be by myself with trees and you and that's it. Nothing else. I don't care what we live in. I don't care if it's an outhouse. I just want to be with trees. And I don't know why. I later learned that it's the natural energy of the earth Pachamama that I need to ground myself. So. But I don't know this at the time. So I'm just. I just know that I've got this urge that I've got to. Here I am now. I'm a tree hugger. Literally. Literally, I don't know who I am anymore. So we do this. We. We got a cabin in the middle of nowhere. It was just us. And we meditated the whole time. And I had just been learning my meditative techniques. And she took out. While we were there, she took out a portrait that somebody drew. And I. And I said, that's your dad. And she goes, I know. And I said, but. But you don't understand. That's the way I see him, like, exactly. When he, when he comes to me, that's it. That's the way he looks. He's got that shirt on every time. And she said, she starts to laugh. And I said, why are you laughing? And she goes, because a medium drew this. And I said, no way. Somebody else sees him exactly the way I see him. It was like validation. Because that shirt, he was a, he was a builder by trade. He built houses. He did very well, but he was a construction guy. So for him to have a dress shirt on was very unusual. And it was a specific type of, of dress shirt that you would know from that era. Like when he died. And they used to joke about it. They would call it his Christmas shirt because he had one nice shirt that he wore it on Christmas, right? Otherwise, he was a jeans and work boots kind of guy. So I was like, who is this guy who drew this? I gotta meet this guy. And we Google him. We, you know, pull up the computer and right on the front page of his website, it says, now accepting applications for a two year mentorship program with Medium Joe. And the deadline to apply is February 15th. That's my birthday.

February 15th.

Yeah.

Wow.

And I'm like, She's like, you're gonna, you're gonna submit your application. I said, are you kidding? This is divine intervention. I'm talking divine intervention. And I'm tree hugging now. I'm all in. So I submit my application. I gotta tell you about this guy because he's so absolutely amazing. Talk about integrity. When you hear this story. I applied and it's just a little basic application, right? But that's not the real application. Then you get this like big thick telephone book type, you know, essay questions. And, and you got to go through everything. What happens first, what happens second, and then what do you feel? And then what happens when this happens? And what. And you got to be able to really, really define everything. You see, the way you see it, how you feel it, how you know everything. He's got to know you're legit or you don't even get to meet with them. So then you get to, you have your interview and it's by phone. And so I, I did that. And then you get another follow up questionnaire, that's like another one. And you got to fill all that stuff out. This is only for the mentorship program he has nowadays. He has other classes too, that you don't have to go through all this. But this is, if you want to be a mentee, this is what you have to do. So after I go through all the motions, everything I had to do, I don't hear anything at all. And so I just figured I didn't get it. You know, months had gone by and I was like, I, I guess I didn't get it. And I said, and I told my wife, I said, you know, you know what, maybe this isn't real. Maybe this is just in my head, babe, you know, and, and I'm all the way back to square one, doubting myself again. And she says, why don't you just give, you know, send him an email or call and see what happened. And I, and I said, all right. So I, I, I, I call his assistant. And I said, so I just wanted to confirm that, you know, I didn't get it. And she goes, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, you don't understand. There's hundreds of applications he has to go through. And I was like, oh, wow. Oh, okay. And we hadn't made any decisions yet. She said, I was like, oh, okay. Thank you for your time. And now let's do the math on this. This program was a two year program and it cost several thousand dollars. It was not cheap by any means. And to be a mentee again, this is not like regular classes. This is like, I can call this guy 247 if need be. And so he's got hundreds of applications willing to pay thousands of dollars. He could have just said, you're all real, come on in, and changed his, you know, life, literally with a huge windfall of money, or even said, half of you are real, come on in, and had a windfall. Right. I don't know that I could have done what he did. So I did get accepted and I was number 11 out of 11. Oh yeah, that's it. Eventually it was like 14, but a couple more stragglers came in, but that was it. It topped out. And I was like, I don't, I, I don't know that I could have done that. I really don't. Being, you know, that much money on the table, leaving it, that shows you that this guy, his integrity and how he feels about the, his craft. And he's like, no, I can't. It's not that the other people weren't real. It's like they couldn't, he couldn't prove it to himself, so he had to let them go. And he could only take the ones that he was sure. And I'm one of them. Me, like everybody else in the class had experience a little and they were doing some things and they were like reading for people and they knew all the language and I don't even know a damn thing. And he. And I. I'm just there. But he taught us so much more than mediumship. He taught us about spirituality. He taught us how to live, you know, how to, how to be a good human, how to help others, how to meditate, how to manifest. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. And that was a two year program. And now it's like four or five going on. Five years later, I'm still with him. I'm not leaving him ever. Like, he's like the dad I'd ever had. And I'm. That's right. Like, here comes these people into my life that literally change everything about who I was to who I am now. And it's just. And it's amazing how this transpires. That's what the first book is all about.

Oh, wow. Wow, that's amazing. And no, you just made me think about something. Okay. But I won't go in because then I won't shut up because I experienced like, I, I have like all like that, right? Like, I experience stuff. I was even looking for a mentor at one point. And for me it's almost like, I guess that was my path, right? The school hard knocks. Having to learn everything I did along the way. Right. I had like a medium friend that she helped me and different things. You know, I was part of a native community, so, so, you know, it was like, you know, even if the elders didn't really understand everything I was going through, they listen, they must have heard it before because they never looked at me like I was crazy, right? Yeah. Yeah. But so now you're. You're full blown psychic then, right? Like you.

I guess so. And I really, I really don't like that term at all. But yeah, and intuitive is kind of a better word that I think a lot of people are starting to adapt to intuitive. But you can be. Everybody's intuitive to a degree. Right? You just have to learn how to develop it, to utilize it. Now, mediumship, however, you've got to be an intuitive or a psychic to be a medium. But you don't necessarily have to be a medium because you're intuitive or psychic. You could be very good intuitive without being, without mediumship. And believe me, like, that's, that's a good place because, you know, once you start getting into mediumship, you know that, that, that stuff scared the you know what out of me. I mean, like, that's no joke. And to Be honest. I've got so much respect for mediums. I chose not to practice mediumship. I learned it because I had to understand it for myself, and I needed to know what was going on. But I don't practice it. I don't charge any money for it. I will never do that. You know, that's not my thing. What I teach people is how to have their own spiritual awakening and how to overcome trauma and how to do that. And that's what my whole second book is about. But, you know, so I. I have high respect for people that do readings because they. When you do a reading, you gotta let your energy and. And spirit's energy come into you together to some degree, and that's gonna stay with you for a while. You're not. You can't just wash that off in the shower and you take that emotion on with you for a couple of hours, maybe even a whole day. So, you know, most mediums will tell you that they can only do a certain amount of them in one day before they're just, like, spent, because they are absorbing the feelings and the emotions and, you know, with me, like, what comes through, Right? Why would you want to come through? Because you regret something, because you want to tell somebody you love them one last time, because you didn't do something, because you feel guilty of something, because you're shameful of something, you want to say you're sorry. So these are the things that they want to say. It's not, hi, I'm here. Love you. You know, it's just. I mean, that's part of it, but that's not it. There's usually, like, a message that comes along with shame, guilt, or something that's, you know, bothering them that they want, please tell my son this. You know, so.

Oh, God.

Taxing.

No, absolutely. Yeah. I've. I've done it. And it's so funny that we're having this conversation because I've been struggling with that of, like, I even thought. Because he just from the native culture alone, like, I was taught in that way. Like, we don't charge or how are you. You help, right? It's part of, you know, obviously with native culture, you give offerings, right? So, yes, that's how it is. But you don't charge. So I had a really hard time with that. And then finally, I don't know, I guess having the podcast, interviewing enough people, I'm like, you know, maybe it's not a bad thing, because now that I've done it, I've done, like, you know, I just started, and maybe I've done, like, 39. Yeah. I felt like even that when I was. I was like, okay, I'm just gonna tell this person what I'm feeling. And I was like, man, I feel desperation, frustration. So I took on that energy, and they're like, yeah, I'm going through all that. Like, you hit the nail right on the head. Or if I saw this entity, they were like, well, that's exactly how I feel. But it looked. It came through so. Because that's how they were feeling. And I saw it, like, as this dark ant, and. And. But I just had to say it, right? So you take on that, and, you know, I'm kind of leaning towards that. Like, I really. Maybe I'm just supposed to learn, but I don't really. I'm thinking, like, I don't know if I really want to do it. Like, that's. That.

You know what I say to people? Like, there's a lot of people that call themselves mediums, right? That. And we know some of the. Maybe they think they're 100 legit, and maybe they're not so much, right? The ones that. You see that, like, yeah, my medium. Don't ask me to read, please.

That.

You know, that's the real one right there, right? The one that's like, hi, I'm a medium. God, sit down. Let's do a reading. Don't waste your money on that one. Because it's not like that. You know, it's more like, yes, I can do it. Okay, I will do it for you. You know, but it's about serving. It's about, you know, and, yes, they try. They have to make a living, too. So, I mean, they charge for this. And I understand that totally. You have to. But it's. It's. You can sense the. The. The difference because it's. It's. You can. We love changing people's lives, right? We love giving them that information, but at the same time, it hurts us to take that on and pass it through. So it's really a service that you have to kind of choose to do. And. And. And for me, like, I just had. I had. I think people have multiple spiritual awakenings throughout their lives, right? On the way to what we hope one day will be enlightenment. I am not enlightened by any means. I'm a work in progress. I got no problem saying that. But I've had many, many awakenings. And when I was getting to the end of the second book, I had a huge one because I was working towards having this. And, and it was so big that I actually had to go back and rewrite a lot of the parts of the book. And it was about, you know, really chipping away at my ego and really like, fracturing it to the point where I don't let it run my life anymore. I. That little narrator voice in my head, you know, I don't trust it. It's never right. And so I don't listen to it anymore. I go upward. I go to the collective consciousness or God or the universe, whatever you want to call it, is fine by me. That's where I'm going to get my information from. So my consciousness tells my ego to step aside because you're just grabbing from my subconscious, which are things that I've already experienced or seen that you think are true, meaning my ego, which is not me, you think that's real? And I got a really good story I'll share with you really quickly. I, I eventually started to study how to be a shaman. I was very interested. And this is like, right up your alley, right? So I start working with some, some people that are embrace me. I become a welcome guest to the Caro tribe of, in Peru. And eventually, when I got through my training, my ceremony was to be on the top of Machu Picchu. I had to climb Machu Picchu, go to the top, and the elders of the Caro tribe were going to give me my healing rights at the top of the mountain. And all my life, when I was very young, I heard my mother say, I'm deathly afraid of heights. And so I adopted that like it was mine. I'm deathly afraid of heights. And I would even say that, not even knowing what that was. You know, I was like a little kid and I heard my mother say that to somebody else. And I'm like, I'm deathly afraid of heights. That's the way I went through my life. I'm deathly afraid of heights. So Machu Picchu, 14, 000ft above sea level. You don't have to like, climb it from the bottom. Obviously they drive you most of the way up, but you still have a lot of climbing to do. And I went right up that mountain. I was so excited to get my healing rights and get up there and have that ceremony and, and, and that's how that, that's how I received this right here, this. And, and I went right up the mountain. Didn't think about anything. Came and, you know, did the ceremony. It was beautiful. I came down the mountain. I Said to my wife, I'm not afraid of heights. My mother's afraid of heights. I took that on my whole life. It's got nothing to do with me. That's just my ego and that. And that's when you start to realize it's not you. It's something other than you. And that little narrator, that little voice, you got to question it all the time. Because most often, I would say 90% of the time, it's got nothing to do with you. You're absorbing the stuff that you heard other people say and other people do, and you witness things, and you put it into a box. And your interpretation of that comes through the ego, and it's not real, and it's not you, and it limits us. Right? Because I wouldn't have climbed the mountain. I wouldn't have gone up there, and I wouldn't have had this amazing experience that I ultimately had. So I had. I got. I kick my ego in the nuts every time it tries to flare up. I do not believe a word it says. And except for, like, look both ways before you cross the street. Okay, it's got a point, right? All right? But when you're telling me I can't do this or I can't accomplish this, or I can't climb out, yes, I can. Yes, I can. And I will go to my awareness, and that will speak to my higher self, and that's where I'll. I'll find out what I can do. Not from you. And that's what the second book is about.

Oh, wow. You have two books. And. Is there another book, or you just have the two?

There will be, but it's not. I'm working on it. It's a work in progress. As. As. So as. As I experience and I learned that's the way the books are written. It's. It's like I take you on the ride with me, so it's not like. It's not. It's a storybook that has, like, a moral to the story. You're reading about my life. It's not like me just telling you stuff. And this is what you should do, because who the hell am I to tell you what you should do? I just. I just break down my life and the things that I've been through and the lessons that I learned from it. And if it helps you, I hope it does. And. And I gave it, you know, and I wrote two books, and so far, it's been pretty amazing.

No, I can imagine. Like, I've hung on every word you Said so you're very good at, you know, storytelling, so I can only imagine that the books are just as good, if not better, right? So thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. So I did want to ask you something. I heard you briefly say something in. In interview, and it was about that, about the experience of, like, why do NDE people see things differently, right? Why? Because I recently came across that, right, from what I've experienced, right. I've been shown something different, and even medium friends that have seen something different. But you know right now when you said your. Your birthday is 2:15, right? Because I wrote a book and it's called 216 and the Secrets of the Universe because that's the day that my brother passed away on 216.

Oh, my God, I'm so sorry. I did not know that.

No, thank you so much. You know, and he took his life, right? So that's. That was one of the biggest awakenings I had. So on 216 of 2019, right, he. He took his life. And that's when, like, poof, there was no veil anymore. Like, I had been blocking everything throughout my life. And that when that happened. But it was way too much, right Then after that, I was open so I could communicate with him. But yeah, after I had a block because it was overwhelming, right? It was just too much. But anyway, so when that happened with him, you know, he had been in the military for like 20 something years. You know, he. He, you know, so whatever, they brushed it off to ptsd. But yeah, but you know, even after, right? Like, so that was the. I saw him. He was good. He was fine. He did apologize right away. It was crazy because the day he passed away, I was on my first date with a medium. So as we're. We hadn't even gotten the food yet. I'm sitting down, the food's still coming. We meet up. We meet up at. At the end, it was all these weird circumstances that somehow she was supposed to come to my house. And I even thought that was weird because I never trust. Like, I just met her. I've had some crazy experiences. Yeah, I messaged her my address, and I was like, what did I just do? Like, and so I guess she calls me, hey, I got off the wrong road. Something happened. So anyways, I go to meet her at a restaurant. We just sit down and the food's coming. And I get the phone call and I'm like, what the hell? And, you know, I'm still processing because I Even tired, you know, I'm like, what a First date, right? Like, and she's just looking at me. Like, her eyes feel like she. She. You know, she was feeling the sympathy for him, but she tells me, hey, I'll take you to his house, right? So it was. It was crazy just because we. We were able to meet there. We were halfway to his house already because I went out to meet her. She came all the way to my house. We would have never. So she offered to take me. So when she takes me to his house, she's telling me everything. He's saying all this stuff. Later, a medium friend told me word for word, everything she had told me. So I like, oh, wow, it was all true, right? And then eventually he comes to me, but anyways.

And I say this about religions. Like, all religions have good things. And then they got some really messed up things. And. And they're all, you know, interpreted by man. And then, you know, you have to remember that. That the information is coming through human. And it may not all come through exactly the way it's supposed to. So it comes through and you have to kind of take it with a grain of salt. You know what I mean? You can't be. So, you know, this is how it is, and that's it. And that's it. And that's because somebody wrote this in a book a million years, a thousand years ago, and that's that, you know, it's just. It ain't. It's not that simple. And you know, that.

That was the first thing I was shown. That's why, you know, after my brother did that, I went to a dark place. And so even that, right, One day they told me, like, to message someone. And I was like, no, because they didn't even tell me my condolences when my brother passed away. Nothing, right? And the same, right, I wrote that whole story in my book, right? But it was like I messaged them, hey, how's it going? It was a friend. And, you know, oh. And I. They didn't even say it in the message, but I knew something was wrong with them. And I was like, I'm gonna go see you. They lived a few miles away. I went and it was like they were basically going. Because they told me, I think God or an angel sent you here. They were going through, I think, the same thing my brother was. So then after, it was, like, confirmed, right? See, I do hear things. They really do talk to me. So why didn't they let me save my own brother? And then it was like, oh, for. You know, forget that. So then I Was like, okay, I guess that was my rebellious way. Like, like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take my life then, you know, like, like screw you. You know, like for. But then to visit, like not to. But these beings visited me. They visited me, you know, these huge, you know we call like just because of the terminology from the native ways I star people, right? So I would like these star people. And then they showed me how I heard that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the star people. And so it was like, but you know, we are the star people, right? So. Because that's what happened after they visited me for like two months. I've never felt love like that. And I could. I wanted to go with them. I didn't want to be here anymore, you know. So it's similar to what. Nd like experiencers experience that or you know, I like, I get it like you do that I even saw one of my guests that I think you.

May have even had an out of body experience where you actually left your body and met with the star people. Which remember we all have different names of things, right? So what I call a guide. Could you could call a star person somebody else could call an angel somebody else. You know what I mean? Like, we're just using different terminologies, talking about the same thing now. That's a beautiful experience that you had.

No, absolutely no. And I've had so many out of body since I was young. So to me it was like I say that I was in my real body, right? When I. Because even in that experience I went through a portal. So I went through a portal. I. I appeared. When I woke up, I knew where I was. I googled it. I had, I had never been to this place or heard of it, but I knew where it was. And it was a place that's known for paranormal activity and all this in that. One of those places that I had never heard of in this. In this life yet, right? And so, you know, they showed me how everything and they gave me proof. So that's what I'm showing in my book. It's like me showing proof about basically pre planning like my life. And it goes back even to other civilizations writing Greece, the Aztec pyramids, there's that. So it kind of shows my, my past lives as well as this one. And how even throughout my life in this life, like it's been there, right? It's been present, right? So. And it was showing how we had agreed upon it. Like, and how could I even tell my parents that? Like, hey, I know this horrible thing happened with my brother, but somehow it was. We had agreed on, like we. Before we even came, as crazy as it sounds, you know, so still, even saying it right, it sounds.

I know.

That's how. When you were saying. Yeah, I completely understand when you were talking about that because still. Yeah. Sometimes if you really step back into your logical brain, it sounds crazy.

Like, listen, I. You know, a lot of times in the years we get accused of glorifying death, right, and making it look a little too pretty and a little too special. And by all means, you know, no one should ever take their own lives and they should, you know, do their best to. To. To make it through and ask for help and stuff like that. So. But, you know, if the. It. It also shouldn't be something that's feared because it's really a new beginning to something else. Right? So I guess we all got to be really careful about how we express things and. And. And. And what we say, you know, and. But we all have to be, like, really cautious. And a lot of times we're all talking about the same thing using different language, using different words. Things get, you know, mixed up and. And misunderstood. And we kind of got to do our best to, you know, just stay on this same wavelength, you know, sometimes. Now, remember, when we see things as mediums, they're given to us, and I. I'm not necessarily referring to this one incident, but there we have to put a puzzle together a lot of times, right? We're given pictures, and instead of words. Words a lot of times. And we have to figure out the meanings, and the meanings are usually derived from what we know. At least this is the way I was taught is that like, you know, if. If somebody from the other side gives me a picture of a rose, then I have to think, what does a rose mean to me? And that's what I tell the sitter, because that's what it's meant to. I don't know what the rose means to them. I can only interpret it from my end, but they know what it means to me, and that's why they're giving me the rose so I can. The thing. But it's. A lot of things can get lost or, you know, in. In translation. You know, there's. We're not speaking the same language. We're speaking, like, vibration, and we're trying to interpret vibration and. And visuals and pictures and whatnot. So there's a lot to. There's a. That's why I say, like, none of nobody can be 100 correct. And nobody's going to be 100 wrong either. So there's always going to be some territory that we don't see eye to eye on things, unfortunately.

No, absolutely. I mean, and the evidence is there, right? Look at the religions of the world. Like someone will kill like thousands, millions of people for religion in the name of.

Yeah. And then that's like, I can't even wrap my head around that. Right.

And I mean, it still continues to this day. Maybe not at that level where, you know, you hear about the Inquisition or this or that or, you know, even what happened here. Right. To indigenous people. Yeah, even, you know, so we know it's happened. So I guess. Of course, why wouldn't it happen? Even to spiritual people where they see, for some reason see, are seeing things differently and that's the lens they see it through and.

Yeah, that's good. The lens that's important, right? The lens that you see it through. It's very important just to try to stay open to any possibility because another lens might give you a better perspective on something too. You never know.

Right, Absolutely. Yeah. So I want to be respectful of your time, Ray, but is there anything else? Because I know you have a tennis story, so is there anything else you want to leave anyone with before I.

I think that, you know, we covered so much ground. I think it's really important to remember that at the end of the day, regardless of our beliefs and our religions and the way we see stuff, at the end of the day we all are one. And I think we can all agree that we all come from one entity, one source, one energetic place. And you know, we need to remember that to hurt another person is to hurt yourself if you acknowledge the oneness that we all are. So you can't hurt somebody else without hurting yourself. And it's so important like that we all live by this, this, this rule because we're all going to return to the oneness, even if we have to, even if we come back and you believe in reincarnation, you know, we're going to the oneness, then we come back and we, we're individuals, but we're still one. Like we're. God is a part of you and you are a part of God. Right. Jesus said that. I think there's a form of that in every religion, really, across the board, there's something to that degree, you're a part of God, God's a part of you. Therefore, you know, we're co creating this, these lives together. We're co creating where we exist, we're co creating our planet and everything that we do. So the only thing I would leave with everybody is just remember the oneness. Remember the oneness that we all are. And, and, and, and I thank you so much for having me as your guest. Thank you, Omar.

I appreciate it. The honor was mine. I, you know, thank you so much. I appreciate, you know, everything you share and especially those closing words. I couldn't have said it any better myself. So thank you so much. I'll put all the links to where everybody can get your books, your website. Is there any other other thing aside from the books? You teach classes as well.

And I, I do coaching, I do one on one coaching and you can find information about that@ray catania.com and you can also find information, information about the books and everything right there. Ray Catania.com thank you for allowing me to say that. I appreciate it.

Absolutely. Absolutely. So on that note, thank you so much. We'll end it there and I'll put all the links in the description.

Bye my friend.

Thank you. Life may move fast though it may move slow I made a silly name city make it slow we look about towards space so we went at the sky Want to pass away but never look inside Breathe in, breathe out Life is a bigger sound I mean human beings I ain't got no doubt yeah, that's right. Sometimes you're just feeling it, you know what I'm saying? And I want to feel this way forever.