NDE's And the Science of Spirituality with Ray Catania

I'm actually floating above my body and I'm looking down at myself. They were thinking I was in bad shape, but I felt awesome. Like I felt amazing. Actually, the greatest feeling I've ever felt is the day that I died.

Hello. Hello. Welcome back. I'm Kirsty Salisbury, host of your show. This is the let's Talk Near Death podcast. We're talking all things life, death and experiences in between. Today I'm chatting with Ray Catanya. He is a near death experiencer. He's a metaphysical teacher, a theorist and a coach. He's also an ordained minister and he's all about spirituality, energy. My favourite topic, the afterlife. He's written two books and these sound amazing. The first one is the Atheist and the Afterlife. What a book. And also he's got you are still alive now act like it. So I can't wait to hear more about that. Today Ray guides individuals on their own transformative journeys. He's also studying his doctorate degree in metaphysical parapsychology. So quite a lot going on there. So, Ray Catania, it sounds like life is very busy. I appreciate your time. Welcome along and thank you for joining me.

Oh, thank you, Kirsty. I really appreciate your time. Thank you for having me. It's an honor.

It's going to be exciting. I can't wait to see where our conversation goes. How did you get into all of this? You're doing a lot of different things. You've had your near death experience, you're studying, you're helping others.

The first book, like you said, is called the Atheist in the Afterlife. And it starts with my atheism beliefs as a child. And that was because I didn't have a very happy childhood, I guess you could say. You know, it was one that was a little rough and tumultuous at times, drama, trauma, et cetera. And I would just try to avoid what was going on in the household. And I was very young, 5, 6, 7 years of age, and just trying to stay clear of the arguments and the fighting and whatnot that was happening. And I would kind of hide in my room or in a basement or, you know, something where I was, it was just me. We didn't have any computers, we didn't have cell phones yet. I'm showing my age. So it was just me and me. And I would be just staring maybe at a wall or what have you. And when you do that, and I would wait until everybody goes to bed to come out. So, you know, this would be like six hours a day, seven days A week. And after a while, it's the same thing as putting yourself through that type of meditation process, right? Because you're just looking or you're closing your eyes and you're just trying to. I was trying to get out of my reality. I wanted to be someplace else. And when you do that for hours and hours on end, eventually you kind of break through. And I started to be able to see things that other people couldn't see. And I thought everybody could see it. And the first thing that I saw was that what the wall was kind of made out of. I started to be able to see energy in the wall. It wasn't a white wall or, or a gray wall or a blue wall or whatever. It was just energy. And I started to be able to see things that were just kind of like floating around. And again, it just. I just figured everybody could do this. So we'll fast forward and I'm 20 years old and I have my near death experience. And it happens this way. I'm still living in that house. And my bedroom was located on the second floor. And the kitchen was directly beneath the bedroom on the first floor. My bedroom. So what was happening was there was a gas leak in the stove. And the gas, it was natural gas. And it was rising all night long while I was sleeping. So I was inhaling the gas all night. And the way I understand the story is my mother got up in the morning, turned on the stove. There was a big ball of flames, and it caught the wall on fire. She was fin my father put it out rather quickly with a fire extinguisher. However, what happened was I was inhaling the gas fumes. I wasn't hurt by the fire, and I wasn't hurt by the smoke. It was gas. So I had been inhaling this all night long. And I hear the fire trucks, I hear the police cars. So I try to get out of bed to see what's happening in my house. I have no idea what's happening yet. And I try to get up, and I find that my legs are almost completely paralyzed. They feel like they weigh just a thousand pounds each. My head, I couldn't get it up off the pillow. I knew right away something was really, really wrong. And I had to get up out of this bed. The only thing I really had working was my right arm and my left arm a little bit. And so what I did was I grabbed the edge of the bed and I kept pulling myself and just inching along until I got to the edge of the bed. And then I tumbled out. And when I tumbled out, I hit face first on the floor. And you would think that you hit your face pretty hard like that. And you would think that the pain is about to set in, but it didn't. And that was the first sign that something was strange. Why did this not hurt? And then the next thing I know is I'm actually floating above my body and I'm looking down at myself. So I'm looking at myself, face down my lifeless body. And I'm in the corner, like a neutral corner. The room was a perfect square and I was in the upper left hand corner. And I'm looking down at myself on the side of the bed. And this doesn't scare me at all. In fact, I felt a warmth like I've never felt before. Adjacent to me, directly across the other corner is a huge cone shaped white light. And this light brings with it love, painlessness, euphoria. I was an energetic being, so I was one with this light that we were just completely commingled as one. And at the end of the light was a being who told me it was safe to enter. It said, ray, it's okay to enter, or something to that effect. And I'm not hearing this or you know, this is like some sort of transmission, like more like a telepathic type of conversation. I have no other words for it. And so I start to head into the light and it's like a tunnel. And the farther I go into the tunnel, the more the euphoria increases. And I'm just thinking, this is the greatest thing. I can't wait to see what's on the other side of this, of the light. And with that, my father comes in the room. He kicks the door open, he grabs me, he's holding me, he's distraught, he's crying. And I see this and I'm like, who is this guy? Because this is not the guy that raised me. He didn't show emotion and he didn't hug me. And I don't know what this is right now. And it was confusing, but at the same time it was something that I always wanted. I wanted to have that relationship, but I never did. So I asked if I could go back. And when I woke up, I was not in his arms anymore. I was not in that room anymore. I was in the living room and I was on my back looking up at the paramedics and they were working on me and doing whatever paramedics do. And I'm like, guys, guys, I feel great. That euphoria was still there. It doesn't go away right away. It lingers. And I really did feel great. And I was trying to explain to them, and they're like, you're. You're not great, son. You need to just sit there and let us do what we need to do. And. And they're talking about, in their lingo, bring up the truck. Bring up the truck. That means ambulance. He has no bp, has no. You know, that means blood pressure. So I guess I was. They. They were thinking I was in bad shape, but I felt awesome. Like, I felt amazing. Actually, the greatest feeling I've ever felt is the day that I died. And so I said, well, did you see the light? Did you hear the voice? You know, and now they're looking at each other like, what's up with this guy? Right? So I started. I just, you know, I shut it down. I didn't say anymore because when I brought up the energy thing, I was told I was crazy. You know, everything I've ever seen, I've been told I was crazy. So I kind of caught on to that really quickly, that these guys weren't believing me, and they just thought I was crazy. So I stopped talking. I let them take me to the hospital, do what they had to do, and I was released the next day. And then when I tried to explain to my mother what happened, she told me I was crazy. So here I am, crazy again. And I'm just starting to accept the fact that, okay, let me see how I can analytically put this away and try to hold on to atheistic beliefs. I chose atheism because it was the farthest thing I could rebel away from my parents, who were Christian, so I wanted to go in the opposite direction. It was a rebellious thing. It didn't matter what their religion was. I was going to go the opposite.

Yeah.

So I'm trying to hold on to this. And I know what I saw and I know what I felt, but this is what I did. By the way, there's still no computers. I can't just sit down and type in NDE or anything like that. I have no place to go. I've only got people who are telling me I'm crazy. So I figure I fell in front of a window on a sunny day. That was the white light, and I figured I had inhaled so much gas that the being was, you know, I was hallucinating, and that's what happened. And I just put it in a box and I put it away. And I decided I wasn't going to deal with It. Because it was confusing. I mean, it was an unknown. I couldn't explain it, and I had no one to talk to about it. So it was better that I just shut it down. Or at least that's what I thought. But what happens is, a couple of years later, I move out. I move out of that house and I get my own place. And things are getting strange, to say the least. So I'm a kid. I can see energy. I crossed over to the other side. It came back. It was like I was a portal, right? So I moved into my own apartment, and it was like the bachelor pad. And I was like, this is going to be great. We're going to parties all the time, and this is going to be phenomenal. None of that happened ever. Not even once. Because the first day, from the first day I moved in, it was like the place was filled with people, but there's no one there. And you could feel the energy. You could feel the presence. I felt like I was being watched 24 7. Anything that was electric would mess around with me. It would be go on or go off the tv, on and off. Fighting with the alarm system. I called the maintenance guy, I don't know, a hundred times to come up and check everything. You know what he says? He comes up and he goes, listen to me, kid. I'm going to tell you this one time. There's nothing wrong with your apartment. You're crazy. Don't ever call me again. Here I am, crazy again. So I'm starting to accept that maybe there's something wrong with me. And I cannot sleep. I can't sleep because they will not leave me alone. And I'm literally yelling at them, saying, I don't believe in you. I don't think you're real. I'm an atheist. Go away. And things would get worse. Like, the phone would hang up. These are landlines. We didn't even have cell phones yet. And it would, like, click. I'd be in the middle of a conversation. I said, I think my house is haunted. Click. And I would call back. I was, why'd you hang up on me? I didn't hang up on you. You hung up with me. I was saying, my house is haunted. Click. And there it is. And they were just over and over. So I started to use this amount of drugs and alcohol to go to sleep. And this became a very, very bad thing for me. But it was the only way I could sleep. And so I developed a problem with drugs and alcohol. As a result, I moved out of that place because in 10 months of not sleeping, I had to get out of there. I moved into a new place, and I thought it was going to be a fresh start. This is going to be great. This is the Bachelor. This will be the one. It was. The house was crazy. Something was wrong there, right? But no, I move into the new one, and the exact same thing happens, so. And I have a roommate who can't see any of this. So it's like, I'm definitely crazy, right? I'm convincing myself that I'm crazy. More drugs, more alcohol. I'm early 20s, so I don't care if I live or die. I come from a complete home of chaos. Everything is anger and violence in my life. And so I'm just being very reckless with myself. And more alcohol, more drugs, putting myself in bad situations, working for some shady characters, because I just really didn't care what happened to me. And that being would show up in different times of crisis when I was literally about to die or be killed. And he would tell me how to get out of the situation. And I'm saying he, for lack of a better word, because it's not a he or a she. All I see is energy. It's just lines. There's nothing. Nothing other for me to say. And there was this one time, I'm in a bar, and it's after hours, and I'm behind the bar because I work there, and I'm putting some glasses on the. On the. On the table and. Or on the bar, rather. And there's two groups, the owners and his associates and. And one of the guys tells me to get him a drink. I look for the head nod, make sure I can get him the drink, you know, it's okay. And he gives me the nod. So I get the. Go down to get the bottle, and I hear, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. And I know these aren't firecrackers shooting at each other, and I got to get the hell out of here. So first I froze, and I didn't know what the hell to do. And the being comes back and says, side door, side door, side door. And I look at the side door, and I can see where it is. It's. I. It's like 10ft that way. If I go 10ft that way, somebody's going to see me. At least one of the shooters is going to see me, but I have no other way out. So I go. I go out that door. Then you have to go make a left, go through another door. And then there's another 40 foot corridor before I get to another side door, which is the actual fire escape. So I make it and I get to the parking lot and I parked my car right outside that door. I've never ever parked there. I had my own parking space on the other side of the building. But for some reason when I drove in that day, I put it there. And I don't know why. Well, I kind of do now. But in the moment I had no idea why I put it there. And there's been so many other times when I've experienced brushes with death that he's been there even. Even as a child. I remember when I was 10 years old and my parents took me to the beach and I was swimming out too far and the undertow was pulling me back even farther. This very, very strong undertow. And there was like 10 kids on this side or eight or 10, I don't know how many. It was a group on this side and I was on this side. So the lifeguard was trying to save these kids because there was more of them. And I'm just by myself, you know, you just save eight or you save one, save eight. So I'm going down and I'm going down pretty quickly and I'm starting to panic. I'm very young and I feel a presence. And the presence says, calm down, swim sideways, take all the time you need. And I can't calm down because I'm a little kid and I'm panicking. So that happened for me. All of a sudden it was just like I was relaxed. Then I started to swim sideways and I took all the time I need. It took me a long time, but I wasn't over, you know, I wasn't over. I wasn't hyperventilating or anything at that. In that moment I was very calm, relaxed, and just continued to swim and swim and swim. And what I later learned is that's what you're supposed to do when you get caught in an undertow is swim on an angle and swim to shore. It's the only way you can get to shore. But I didn't know that at that age. So it's, it's the. It's always been this presence that's been there for me. And I don't know why. I mean, I. I'm not. I'm not particularly deserving of this being. At least I don't feel that way about myself. I don't feel special in any way. But he's just always been there. So going back, we'll Fast forward. I'm around 30 years old and I get married and I have two kids. Right away it was like, boom, boom. We had two kids and I wanted two kids, I wanted my two sons, and that's what I had. And now I have a reason for living. So I have to change everything about my life quickly. I go to rehab, I get clean and sober, still clean and sober. And I go back to college, I get my degree, I get a great job, I move up the ladder, I do very well for myself, I get another job, I move up the ladder, I do well again. My kids, I was determined to give them everything I didn't have and more. And perhaps I overcompensated, but I'm okay with that. They're good kids and the marriage fell apart quickly. It was. We only lasted maybe three years, but I still had the kids and I still had the reason for living. And I was going to give them everything I could. I was going to be the father who said, as I love you. I was, I, I never let them leave my, my presence without me telling them I love them. And you know, I think that that's very important because we just don't know when we're going to take our last breath.

Exactly.

Anything happen, you know. So they turned my life around and I dedicated the book to them. I said, you know, you help me more than you'll ever know. And it was, it was a period of time where I was just concentrating on raising them, doing my job, trying to get ahead in the world and giving them everything they needed.

That's amazing. Thank you so much, Ray. There's so much in that I'm thinking right back to when I'm quite visual with my. I call it imagination. It's not actually imagination because it's real life, how I process things. Quite visual in cartoon, in my head. And I'm imagining you as a young boy, I think you said, you're 8 or 10 years old and you're sitting there all day just waiting for the day to pass, he can come out and just how intense that is. You know, my heart was really feeling for you in that point. And then going on, you have your near death experience, you have all of these close calls with death. And I can't help but wonder, why do you think you're still here? Why have you had so many close calls with death?

Well, I know why I had the close calls. Those I did to myself. I put them, I put myself in harm's way with the exception of the actual nde. The rest I'm guilty of, you know, putting myself in bed. It's self sabotage, you know, and it's because of the home that I came from and what I learned, you know, chaos was my comfort zone, I call it. And when chaos is your comfort zone, if you go out and you interact with people who are quote, unquote normal or what have you, I'm not comfortable there. Right. I need chaos. I need to be in a. In a place where things are not going smoothly because that I could. Chaos, I can navigate. Normalcy, I cannot. So it was my programming as a child to learn how to navigate the abnormal, the chaos, the anger, the violence and trauma. So that's what I knew best, and that's what I took with me in my 20s. And it wasn't until my kids that I started to turn that around. So I. I know I brought that upon myself.

Okay. Yeah. It's. I'm just curious because I think you've had so many close calls with death, and yet you're still here, you know, parking your car right where you did that one day. I'm going, this must be something really, really important.

I hope it's what I'm doing now. It's what you really. I. I think so. I hope so. You know, I've since quit my day jobs. I don't. It doesn't align with who I am anymore. When I was writing the second book, I had a huge awakening of consciousness, and I think we have many of those in, throughout our lives on the way to hopefully, what one day will be enlightenment. I'm certainly not there and don't claim to be there. I'm a work in progress for sure. But I had this moment of overall clarity and coming from that home that I told you about, filled the chaos and violence I would always. My primary emotion was anger all the time. And I learned that I don't have to be angry at all. I had been working on this for years, but I started to. I went back to school for metaphysics after I quit my job. As you mentioned, I had my master's in doing my PhD. I also started to learn from people like Eckhart Tolle and Joe Dispenza, and then on the other side of the spectrum, Deepak as well over there. And then on the other side, I started to learn physics. And I studied Einstein, Tesla, Niels Bohr, and all the great physicists, rock stars of the 30s. And I started to find these connections where I could take a physic, a physics formula, and put it to the test of a spiritual observation or a spiritual thing that we would use, like let's say, manifestation, for example. I had to figure out how does that work? Because I couldn't just accept it as it is. I'm the biggest skeptic of all time. I don't, I'm, I don't believe anything. So I had to figure it out. So I started to figure out that. I started to figure out how the mind works. And I learned about the egoic mind and the unconscious. I read Carl Jung, Sigmund Freud, you name it. And those, they're covered in metaphysics as well. So I really had this kind of well grounded education and I started to put these things together. And the more I put the puzzle together, it just became easier to understand. And when I learned how the mind works, I was able to change my mind. And that's what I do now. I say, you know, change your mind, change your life. And it's, it's, it's not easy. I mean, it is easy, but it's, it's tedious. And you have to do it over and over and over. But eventually it clicked and I lost my anger one day when I should have gotten very, very angry, in fact, livid. Nothing happened. I felt no anger whatsoever. Total opposite. I felt compassion. I had a car accident and I hit a deer. And I had a very expensive car. And I thought that was a big deal at the time because my father had a big expensive car. I drove it into a deer and the old ray would have flipped out. The new ray got out of the car and tried to pick up the deer and it got up and it walked away and she was fine. And I thought for sure the deer was dead. And then I checked myself and I was fine. Another, practically a miracle. I looked at the car and it was trash. But that's just the car. I can't go back in time. I can't change what happened. So I have to surrender to what is. And that was one of the things that I learned. Surrender when to surrender. And we can surrender like 90 something percent of the time. We do not have to get angry. We do not have to get upset. We get upset about a lot of silly things.

I often think that quite often we take this life way too seriously. And like I do this as well. I'm so in this life like we all are. We're in our life because we're here having our physical experience. And then sometimes it's almost like things just switch. And I'm able to step Back from situations or things similar to what you're saying and go, man, why does this even matter? Why am I taking this so seriously?

Yeah, I do that a lot.

Yeah, I think we all do. I think we all do it. It's quite hard. Yeah. It makes me think, why? Why do we do that? Is it because we're having such a physical experience?

I think it has a lot to do with the things that we learned early in life, the things that we saw early in life. Because our unconscious mind is our primary emotions. Our subconscious, however, is our past experiences. And when we're very young, between the age of two and seven, we are in what's called a theta state, the brainwave state, theta. Almost most of the day. So 80% of the day we're in theta. And when you're in theta, it's just above delta. Delta is where you're sleeping. Rapid eye movement, you're out, right? So you're just one level above sleeping. And this is the way we spend our childhood. The reason for that is all the information we take in goes into our subconscious. And we learn everything and we absorb everything around us. And we accept that all is true and we accept it all as reality. And it's. It's everyone else's reality. It's our environment that we're in. It's the people we're with. It's what we see on tv. It's whatever's coming into us, that information, we're putting it into our subconscious, it affects our emotions. And when an experience comes together with an emotion that's strong, it becomes your truth forever. It does not change unless you consciously change it. Now you have to use your conscious mind to go back in and say, hey, subconscious, we're not going to do it that way anymore. And the ego, which is directed, it's like the little voice in your head that's always telling you what to do. Don't do that. You can't do that. Don't do this. You said this. Now everybody's going to think you're silly and stupid, right? It's that voice that always comes out, draws from the subconscious and tells you how terrible you are. Because it's there to protect us, but it over protects us. And I'll give you an example of this. When I was young, very young, I remember I was playing with trucks under the table. And all the parents, my parents had people over and they were all talking at the table about fears and phobias. And so I'm listening, I'm just taking it In. I'm not even listening. I'm just. I'm absorbing it because I'm. I'm in that data state. I'm. I'm playing with trucks. I don't know what's going on. But my mother says when it gets to her, she says, I'm deathly afraid of heights. So when I grew up and I. And I got into school, you know, a little bit older, somebody said, what are you afraid of? I said, oh, I'm deathly afraid of heights. And I don't even know why, but I adopted that. And I, you know, when I realized that that wasn't mine, I was 50 years old. Very recently, and we went to Peru and I climbed to the top of Machu Picchu because we were meeting the elders of the tribe up there, and it was going to be a ceremony. I was all excited to get up there, so I just went right up, not even thinking about it, and I came down and we got back to the hotel room that night, and I said to my wife, I said, I'm not afraid of heights. My mother is.

Yeah.

So I. I adopted her thoughts, her emotion, her fears, and I made them mine. And that's what we do. And we don't realize we're doing it. And there's so much junk in there in our subconscious that gets pulled out through the ego, and it directs us and tells us what to do. And the greatest gift you can ever give to yourself is remember not to listen to that ego, because it's not you. You are connected. Your awareness is the highest level of consciousness, and you're connected to your higher self and the universal collective or God, or whatever terminology you wish to use the universe. And that's where you look for your answers. That's where you exist. And the first time I found myself, it wasn't in my subconscious. Those were people who decided what my life was going to be before I had any say in it. Now I get to choose. So I look that way for answers. I don't go down this way for answers. And I like myself now. I didn't like myself before, so now I care if I live or die.

I love this because I think we all have the ability to do this. We all have the ability. I call it our spiritual team, where can tap in and go, well, what is the answer to this? Or what should I do today? Or how should I respond to this? Should I get present, you know, get presented with a situation? Should I do this or should I not? Should I take the job? Should I Not should I move every little thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We do. We drive ourselves crazy, right?

Yeah.

Just.

Yeah.

Go into a nice little meditation. Learn how to meditate. It changed my life. And just ask the questions this way. Ask the universe for the. Anybody can do this. Like I said earlier, I am not special. I'm just a regular guy who figured some things out and wrote it in a book and tested it and gave and gave it to other people. And it worked for everybody else, too. So it's working, and you can learn it. And you can literally change your entire outcome of your reality simply by changing your mind.

Yeah. Oh, I love it. It's so cool. I often talk about a voice. I feel like I'm directed by a voice, and it's the same thing. Like, you can put whatever label you like on it. It's the spiritual connection. It's the intuition, and just living by what I feel led to do more than what my brain's telling me to do or my fear's telling me to do.

And you're kind of lucky that you tapped into that.

Well, I mean, it's not 100%. It's quite easy to sit here and talk about it sometimes. I really don't want to do the things that this. I call it the voice that it tells me to do. I want to run away. I don't want to do it. I ended up doing this podcast because of this voice.

Okay.

This. This feeling. I was like, I don't want a podcast. I don't want to share stories. And here I am, and I'm so grateful that it led me to do this work. It's. I can't even call it work. It's just amazing. But I'm reminded of when you were talking about, you're out of body, you're looking down on your body. This is when the gas was leaking and you see the white light. I'm going to say a being. I can't remember the word you used exactly. Up in the corner by the white light.

Yes. He was at the end, or she was at the end of the tunnel, at the end of the light. And had no physical. Had no. I should say, no human form. It was just lines, if you will, just look like lines of energy that was communicating with me and telling me it was okay to come into the light.

Yeah. Wow. Oh, my goodness.

But that's the same voice that's there when I need him the most. Yeah.

This is. My question is, do you think that that's just a. Is it visual? I'm putting. I'm struggling to put words around this concept. Do you think that's your voice in a physical, near death state?

Me personally, I think it's a spirit guide. That's my observation. I'm. It could be so many different things. I don't really claim to know for a fact, but I. I believe it's the closest thing to a spirit guide I can ever. You know, compare it. There's nothing else that you can compare it and, and why he's been there to help me. Like maybe when I'll cross over one day I'll know who this is. Maybe it is somebody that's been in my life that's deceased. I don't know. I just really don't know. But I am so grateful and so thankful that I had him throughout my life and still do.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's amazing. I'm, yeah. Getting the warm fuzzies thinking about it because I feel like I have one, if not more of them. Do you think it's the same one each time? Are we calling it a guy, A man? Is it?

Yeah, well, I guess.

Yeah. Yeah. Just for namesake. Because that's what we need.

Yeah. Just because we need something. Right.

Do you think it's the same one each time?

Yes. And I have. When I started to look more into mediumship and some psychic work. I hate that word, psychic intuitive work. And I had several mentors that were helping me. And I was taught how to connect better. And as I was connecting, I saw when I was in a deep meditation, I met a panel of three again, three beings, all lines, no silhouette, no human form whatsoever. Just three different beings. And I met a panel of seven as well. And that was really, really strange because they had me doing things like I was out of my body and I could, I could. I was over a boardwalk and there was a beach and water. The ocean, which I later figured out why they did this. And I was kind of just zipping up and down the boardwalk, like I guess at the speed of light. It was just amazing because I could just come back. And my mentor always said, you're in control. Because I was really scared. Like my. I was on the verge of panic attack. So I went back to my. My bed and I looked around and I was like, okay, I am in control. And I closed my eyes and I went back up and I went up and down the boardwalk again. And then this bridge opened up over the ocean. But it was made of whatever it was, it was see through. And they wanted me to go over the bridge. And I couldn't do it. I tried, I got a little bit up, it came down. Try to get a little bit up, it came down. And I guess they got frustrated or what, I don't know exactly. But next thing I know I'm awake going, guys, give me another chance. I guess it was to overcome the fear of when I had drowned or what have you. I don't know. That's the only thing I have to relate to it. But it was a very intense out of body experience. Only happened once, never happened. Since I've asked, I've tried. It's. I don't know if it will.

Yeah. I find it fascinating that even in a spiritual out of body experience you can be confronted with fear.

Yeah.

That. Oh yeah, there are limitations because. I don't know, I think we probably have the concept that once we're out of body, we're totally unrestricted, we're free, we're in all of the goodness. And that may be true for some of it, but. Yeah, yeah. That there can be fear and we can still be facing.

Exactly.

Physical concepts, physical issues.

They were there to teach me something on that day and I just was too afraid to learn it. And I, you know, I felt like I kind of let them down and I tried to get back and I, I went back to my bed and I did all the exercises. I was taught to try to communicate again and haven't been able to. Never. Never. The seven, the three. Yes. A little bit here and there, but it's not as prevalent as the one. Like the one. Yeah, he's always there.

Yeah. I get really curious. Excited is probably not the right word when I'm talking about death, but I'm really curious to know who these people are when I die, what the experience is like. Do you have any fear? You've had these near death experiences and you've had multiple. In terms of clinical. Well, I say clinical but out of body. Near death experience where it's related to an incident but also near misses. Like near death because you nearly got shot but you didn't. You were able to get down the side door, down the corridor.

Do I fear that? Do I fear that day? That day? And no. The answer is no. I've completely changed my relationship with death. And that's one of the things. That's one of the things I write about in the book. In fact, I wrote the four principles of Ascension and the very first one is you're going to die. You need to accept that fact and change your relationship with Death so that you can live and care a lot less about things like we were talking about earlier. Those little things, don't let them bother you because they're just so unimportant in the grand scheme of things. And it's so, so important that we change our relationship with death. Yeah. I have a reason for living. It's my kids. But, you know, they're dependent upon me. But when they're not, you know, if it's my time to go, it's my time to go, that's fine. I know where I'm going. It's beautiful and I've seen it, so I'm okay with that. And that allows me to live without fear of anything. I was hemming and horn about publishing the first book because I was nervous of what people would think of me. And then I was like, screw that. I'm gonna die anyway. Who cares? It's a different mindset, you know, when you accept the fact, you know that this will end and it'll be a new beginning. You can reframe and, and change your perception of everything.

Yeah, we really can. And it can influence the way that we live our life too. If you're not so afraid of dying, I mean, none of us are getting out of here alive right now.

I'm not saying go jump off. Yeah. I'm just. I just mean like, you know, when you accept that life is what it is and it's going to end, just enjoy it for the time that you have it, that's all. Yeah. They actually did study psychologists, studied people that were on hospice and they were told, you have six months, you have eight months, you have a year, etc. And these people were just, you know what they did? They, they were closer to their family than ever. They told everybody they loved them every single day. They lived each day as though it was their last. They checked everything off their bucket list. Shouldn't we all live like that?

Yeah. Every day before we get told by somebody that this could happen because it may not even happen as well. I'm very aware of this. This is my personal situation as well, with my family member diagnosed, given three months to live, lived years and years and years years later. And actually the reason that they were supposed to. Well, they were told they were going to die. They died with rather than of. So things can change. And I'm. Yeah, I'm always curious around, can we change our death date? Do we come here with a determined number of breaths or days or hours, minutes, and then that's non negotiable or can our death change the time of death? Depending on how we live our life, what we do, our purpose, I think.

We can change it. I think we can. Because had I not had something intervene in my life, I would have. I was on a trajectory to definite certain death in my younger years, I. I wouldn't have been here today. So, yeah, these changes, I firmly believe you have the choice to make them or don't make them.

Yeah, no, I totally agree. So, Ray, are you still an atheist?

No, no, no, no. I have my own beliefs that kind of blend a lot of different beliefs together, if you will. I consider myself more of a spiritualist, not a religious person at all, but, yeah, no, definitely not an atheist. That wouldn't define me anymore.

Yeah, because I was wondering how that was all going to work. You've got your book. You're still alive now act like it. Still alive as in after death.

No, actually that book is. The first one is the story of my life, how I went from an atheist to being a believer. And then the second book is more about the spiritual topics, ideas, and changing our lives for the better. Right here, right now, and living every day as though it's the last. And I mean that in a good way, you know, because, you know, like we said earlier, we don't know when our last breath is or the other person that we're talking to that we deeply care for. Right. So it's very, very important to make the most of each moment, stay present in the moment. At least this is what I believe. And I try to do it all the time. My wife and kids, they never leave the house without me telling them I love them. It's just something that we do. It's. It's natural. So I think that I've changed so many things about myself as a result of. The catalyst was the nde, but there was a lot more that took place after that.

Yeah, that makes sense to me. I really love it that you. You're living as though it's your last and letting your family members know. I always talk about how we need to love our people hard. We need to just love them. And it's not always easy. We don't get it right all the time, but at least being conscious and aware of how our moments are playing out with our people.

And, oh, my wife and I will scream at each other and then she'll go, leave. And I go, I love you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

She'll call me every name in the book and I go, I still love you.

Yeah, yeah, exactly Just want you to.

Know we're not going to end this this way. You know I love you, okay?

We just don't know, do we? And it's. It's not living in a fear of what if something happens. It's just. I don't know. I think this life can be so full and juicy and this life can be so good. Doesn't mean it's easy. I think it can be very, very hard. But, yeah, we have to. We have to live knowing none of us are getting out of here alive.

Your energy changes and it comes out of you in a different way and it affects other people around you. There's a ripple effect, right? So if you're having. You're waking up and you're feeling just alive and you're feeling love and you're feeling that way, that spreads. That spreads to the other people around you, and then they take that with them and they bring it forward. So you always have a ripple effect. You can stop one person on the street and say, wow, you look really good, you know, today, or whatever, and, you know, great, great dress or great suit or whatever, and. And that you just change the course of that person's day just by simply saying something nice to a complete stranger, you know, and the we. I do that more now that I express love, and I'm not afraid to express love. I thought that that wasn't a manly thing to do. Now I realize that's ridiculous. So I just. I try to be that type of person whenever I can. And it comes back, you know, because what we put out comes back all the time.

Yeah. Yeah, I definitely believe that. I think, absolutely. We've got to put out good things. We'll receive good things. We've got to put out love. I think it's all about love. I'm curious to know, how do you think your. I say your NDA. But you've had multiple experiences, your spiritual experiences as a whole. How do you think they have changed you from who you were when you were that young boy sitting in the dark? Understanding that things are made of energy.

Brought me full circle. Brought me full circle in every way, shape and form. Complete different perspective on my life. The way I look at others, the way I care for others, the way I speak to others, the things that I try to do. I have my coaching practice and I try my best to. To help somebody in an hour, to the best of my ability, until the next time I see them. I just. I do the best that I can with everybody. And the old me would never have cared about anybody but myself and survival. And that was it. That was my thing. So it's changed every single aspect of my life for the better.

That's amazing. It's so good. I love what you're doing, Ray. I love how you're helping others to rewire their thoughts, change their thinking, tap into their spiritual support, their spiritual team, all of these amazing things that you're doing. I love it. I love doing your books. Very, very capturing titles, packed with really good information. And I sort of appreciate you sharing your story and the things you've learned with us. So, Reyka, Tanya, thank you so much.

Yeah, it was a pleasure. Thank you.