The Atheist + The Afterlife with Ray Catania

Today I'm speaking with Ray Catania. Ray Catania is author of two books which are part of his Awakening series. The first one is titled the Atheist and the Afterlife, something I can definitely relate to, and his second book is titled you Are Still Alive, Now Act Like It. He has experienced an NDE and despite years of dismissing anything more than the consciousness is created by a brain theory, too much happened, many of it evidential, and he could no longer deny something was happening. Ray is an acclaimed author, metaphysical teacher, theorist, and coach. He is the visionary behind Limitless Publications, Limitless Coaching, and Scientific Spirituality for the Modern human. He absolutely loves science and it's a really fascinating conversation to listen to how, like me, this materialist atheist had so much happen he could not deny something absolutely inexplicable was going on about consciousness and how our world works. Hey everyone, I'm really excited to let you know about the science and spirituality salons I'm now hosting. During these intimate events, a scientifically verified psychic medium will give all of you readings and I will give a talk on the science and evidence that changed my mind about an afterlife. This will also be an amazing opportunity to get to meet some of you in person or virtually, and to share more about all the science and data that transformed my worldview and got me through my worst days. These can be hosted in your home, in a nearby cafe with a private room, or they can even be virtual. I've hosted a few already and they were really special, fascinating, emotional, evidential. So if you're interested in getting a small group together over dinner, brunch, drinks, coffee to learn more about the science and to get evidential medium readings, send me an email@hellotfjusthappened.net and put science and spirituality in the title. Welcome to what the Fuck Just Happened. I'm your host, Liz Entin. If you listened to the intro, you know my story. If not, here's a brief summary. I'm a sciency skeptic and when my dad died, I took a shot in the dark and decided to investigate if there was any possible evidence of an afterlife. I assumed that was as realistic as Santa Claus, but I was desperate. However, I was so blown away by what I discovered that I wrote a book and launched this podcast. In this podcast, I'll be talking to some fairly normal people about some really weird shit. I speak with everyone from psychic mediums and afterlife researchers to ordinary people who've had some inexplicable experiences. So come listen. There's no need to draw any final conclusions Keep an open mind and wonder what the fuck just happened.

Hi everyone. Today I am speaking with Ray Catania. I think as soon as you hear a little about him you will completely understand why he is on this podcast.

Ray is a metaphysical teacher and author.

Of two books, the Atheist in the Afterlife. And you're still alive, so act like it. And if you liked my book, you will love raise. So welcome.

Thank you so much, Liz. Thank you for having me. It's an honor and a pleasure to be here today.

Thank you for coming on. So you have had quite a transformative, interesting set of experiences. I guess. Guess we'll just start at the very beginning.

Sure.

So what were your original views on an afterlife?

Well, originally certainly I didn't have any beliefs and that's why I chose atheism as my not religion, but lack thereof, I suppose. And it really was derived from a lot of the things that happened in my childhood which you know, weren't very pleasant. And you know, I recall when a lot of the turmoil and fighting and arguing was going on, I would kind of isolate myself and hide as a child. And these are single digits, 5, 6, 7, 8 years old. And what I found was, is that I had no televisions, we had no computers, we had no phones. I mean it's literally just me. So what I started to be able to see were things that I thought everybody could see and I could see and feel energy. Right. But I didn't think anything of it. I didn't think it was special. I didn't think it was, you know, any, anything different. But I think it was triggered by, you know, trying to escape what was happening in the home and disassociating the mind from the brain, which I now realize the mind is actually, you know, can, can come, come out of the body and, and travel if you will. But then I, I didn't know that. So my parents were. Do the opposite just to be rebellious. And so if they went in that direction, I would go in this direction. And coming from a childhood of chaos, let's call it, I. Chaos was my comfort zone. It's what I knew best. Right. So as I started to go through my life, I would create chaos, I would create self destructive behaviors for myself. I would try to do things not consciously but, but subconsciously. And you know, because when we're comfortable in an environment that is highly unusual and certainly traumatic, we recreate it because that's, that's all we know. So the things I chose to do were in many cases life threatening. And I would up the ante and up the ante. And. And at the age of 20, it was when I had an an nd or an actual death. It was. I was 20 years old. I'm still living at home with my parents. And I was sleeping in my bedroom, which is located just above the kitchen. And apparently what had happened was, is there was a gas leak from the stove. And it had been leaking for hours. We don't really know how long. So I was inhaling the gas fumes. In the morning, my mother came down, turned on the stove, I guess, to make breakfast or whatever. And the flame just kind of. It was a little explosion and the wall caught on fire, but it wasn't very big. It wasn't the fire that harmed me. It wasn't the smoke. It was the gas. Everybody forgot about the gas. So I was sleeping in my bed, and I hear the fire trucks and I hear the commotion downstairs. And I know something's going on and I need to get out of bed and find out what it is. But when I try to get out of the bed, I find that I can't move most of my body. I can't move my legs. I can't feel. I can't get my head up off the pillow. And I can't feel my face, so I can't yell. Very few parts were working, so to speak. And my right arm was one of them. And I started to pull myself to the edge of the bed. But as I got closer, I would pass out again. And then there would be a loud noise. It would wake me up, and I would go, oh, my God. I got out of this bed and I pull myself closer and pull myself closer. Eventually, when I got to the edge, I tumbled out and I came down face first on the floor. And it made a huge thump. And everybody heard it and went, oh, my God. You know, there was this raise upstairs, you know, so. But before I hit, or I would say at the exact same time I hit this floor, I felt no pain, nothing. And I. I knew I hit it. I felt that I hit it. I just didn't feel pain, which was highly unusual. And it's because it was in that moment that my body was dead. But I wasn't. I was above my body. I was in a neutral corner of the room. I call it neutral because it was square and it was the. The corner seems to be very prevalent among the. These stories. I didn't know that. But I'm in the corner and I'm looking down at my lifeless body, and there is on the other angle. Coming from the other corner is the white light. And this is everything you've heard about it and more. It is an energetic, all encompassing, loving light that you can become one with and enter it. And I did. I started to go in because it felt euphoric. It felt amazing. I wanted to be in this light forever. And there was a being at the end of the light that was reassuring me, saying, it's okay, Ray. Come into the light. It's okay. And they had no body. I don't know who that was. It's. It starts to make sense a little bit more later. But I. It's not a person, so to speak. It's more of a guide. And. But what happens is I start getting into the light. And as you go forward, it feels better and better and more euphoria. It increases and increases. But I could still see down in the room. And I saw my father run in and scoop me up and start yelling for the paramedics, oh, my God, my son. My God, my God, he's holding me. And I'm. And I'm thinking, you know, my father and I didn't have a good relationship at all. And one of the few times he hugged me is when I was dead. So I'm. I'm like, I wanted that, you know, I wanted him to love me. I wanted him to. To. To hold me. And when I saw that, I wanted to return and I said, I can't leave him like that. And I guess I more or less asked if I could come back. And when I woke up, I was not in that room anymore. I was in the living room on the floor. And the paramedics were doing their things. They had all their tools and gadgets out, and they're just talking to each other. We got to get them in. Bring up the truck. Let's go. Let's go. And I woke up and I'm like, guys, whoa. I feel great. I feel fantastic, in fact. And they're like, no, you don't. And I'm like, no, I do. I really do. And they're like, no, you don't. And so, you know, I said, but did you see the light? Did you hear the voice? Did anybody see that? And they start looking at each other like, you know, okay, this guy's maybe lost it, or he's on drugs or what's going on? So I just shut up and proceeded to just allow them to do what they needed to do. They brought me in the ambulance and off we went. And. But even though that happened, okay? Life was simpler. As an atheist, life was simpler if I didn't have to deal with this now. There's no computers back then. I'm showing my age here. I can't just go online and type in NDE because I don't even know what an ND really is. All I know is what I saw, and I have nothing to compare it to. And the one or two times I brought it up, I was told I was crazy. That's impossible. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Whether it be parents or friends, they just shot it down. And so I stopped talking about it and I repressed it. And what, what happened is they weren't going to allow me to suppress it. But I did the best I could by doing this. I justified it, right? So here's what I did. I figured I fell on a sunny day out of the bed and the sun shining in through the window was the white light and I was inhaling gas fumes all night long. And that caused me to have hallucinations. And there's my ND right there. And I could put it in a box and I could put it away and I didn't have to think about it again. However, on the other side, now remember, here's a kid that can see energy due to trauma of trying to get his brain out of his body and somehow doing it, and then having an NDE at 20, crossing over, coming back, they come with me and it's like a year or two later, these. I move out and I get my own apartment. And I'm all excited. I'm like, this is going to be great. We're gonna have parties every night and chicks and this and that and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. None of that happens at all. I never get to do any of that because I, as soon as I moved in, this place was filled with what I felt like were people. No one else would feel it, I don't think. I don't know. But there were just energies. There were. I called them energy beings. I didn't know what else to call them. And I remember that they would keep me awake. I couldn't sleep. And I remember talking to my friend on the phone and I said, hey, you know, I was kidding around. Now I'm still holding on to atheism. Like, you know what? I think my house is haunted. And the phone goes click and I. It's a landline. Okay, we don't have cell phones yet. Pick it up. Dial. I mean, we have them, but we can't use them. It's like a dollar a minute. So I call him back and I said, hey, did you hang up on me? No, you hung up on me. And I was like, wow, I don't know, that was really weird. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is what's happening in my house is click. And I'm like, okay, I get it. But you know I don't believe in you guys, right? I don't think you're real. Please leave. And I have a 12 month lease. They kept me awake every single night. I mean, it was so bad. So I took up drinking excessively, I took up drugs excessively, anything that would help me to sleep. And obviously that was not a good way to handle it, but that's what I did. And I started to up the ante with doing things that would potentially result in my death because I didn't care. I've. In the back of my mind I knew I was just going to go back to that light, which is phenomenal. And I'm okay with that. So you know, I, I, I, I worked for some very bad people. And you know, there was a shootout in a bar and I'm hiding under the bar and I'm trying to figure out how am I going to get out of this? And here's my spirit helper, let's say guide, telling me how to get out of the bar. Side door, side door, side door. I kept hearing or feeling side door, side door. And I go out the side door. I'm thinking to myself, if I go out the side door, they're going to see me, I'm dead. No, side door, side door, side door. I go, I run down the corridor, there's another side door you have to go out of. So I had to go out the side door, down a corridor about 40ft and then out that way, fire exit. And don't, you know, I parked my car right there. And I have never ever parked my car right there. I mean all the way on the other building was my parking spot, quote unquote. I put it there for some strange reason on that day. So I was able to get out of there. And there were other times like this when I would put myself in ridiculous situations that I should have died but didn't. I even manifested a car accident because I hated my job so much, I didn't want to go back to my job. And I thought if I had a car accident I could hurt myself just enough that I could sue somebody, but not really injure myself. So I drove into another vehicle that and then another one hit me, another one hit me, Another one hit that one and hit me. And I spun around, and I was up on the divider. And I didn't knowingly consciously drive into the car, but I was driving recklessly. So I'm saying I caused it, but I didn't consciously do it. This is subconscious causing chaos again. So again, the car, my car, spinning and spinning and spinning, getting hit and getting hit. And I make a stop, make a stop. Please make it stop. And I hear, you know, under the dash, under the dash. I feel like I have to get under the dash. And I do. We don't have seatbelts. I mean, we have them, but we don't have to wear them yet because it's not a law yet. So I didn't have mine on. And I tuck myself under the dashboard and I brace. I get under the steering wheel and under the dash to the best of my ability. I put my hands over my head and boom, boom, boom. I just keep getting hit and hit and hit. And when it finally stopped, I remember the police officer was a woman, and there was another guy on my right, and she was on the left. And she said to him, is he with us? And I'm like, oh, my God, they think I'm dead. And so I tried to, like, raise my finger and just go, you know her? And they. They saw that, and next thing I know, again, off in the ambulance, there I go. And so I move out of the first apartment into the second, and I leave two months early on my lease because I can't sleep. And I get into the next one, and I'm like, okay, this one's going to be it. This is fine. This is not. Not going to be crazy like the other one, because I. I think it's the apartment. I don't think it's me yet, but when I move in, the same thing happens. So it's not the houses. I could have went to Siberia. They're coming with me wherever I go. I'm haunted now. What do you do with that? So am I insane? Am I not insane? Okay, let's just drink more and use more drugs. And that was. That got out of control. But it would allow me to sleep and it would allow me to ignore them. And I'm. I don't want anybody to find out that I'm insane. So I. I don't speak about them. I don't talk about them. I know they're just there. I ignore them and we. We get on together in that manner. So it wasn't until I got married, my first marriage, I was around 30, and I had two kids, and there were my boys. And, you know, I willed these boys into this world. It wasn't. It was something I really, really wanted. And, you know, then it hit me. I can't live a life of chaos because I have two little humans that are responsible. I'm responsible for their lives. So even if I don't care, if I die, they do. So I can't live this lifestyle anymore. I have to. I have to get out of this completely. So I change every aspect of my life. I go back to college, I get my degree. I check myself into rehab first. And I. I just drove myself to rehab. Like, who does that? I drove myself to rehab, said, don't let me out. And then after college, I got a real job. I got a, well, you know, quote unquote, real job. I did really well. I moved up the ladder. I came back to New Jersey, I did it again, went to a large company, moved all the way up the ladder. So I was really, you know, I was at the top of my game. Things were great. I. Unfortunately, that marriage fell apart very quickly, but everything else was just, you know, really kind of coming together. And I. We had this sort of like an agreement, I guess you could say, like, you know, I'm not going to talk to you. I've been ignoring you for 20 years. I'm still going to ignore you. And so it was less, right? If. If you're not going to talk to them and they know you're not going to talk to them and you're not going to help them, eventually they're going to leave you alone. So this is where I'm at at this point in my life, and I say, well, you know, maybe I should try dating again. I mean, it was a long time since I had any, like, serious relationship. I mean, there were little things here and there, but nothing serious. And so I went online to find a partner, which is what we do nowadays, right? We go online and when you go to one of these websites, they usually give you four or five choices. So there were four women that came up that lived in my area, and. And then I saw the. The picture and. And I was like, oh, my God, that's her. That's. That's. That's my wife right there. That's my next wife. That is my wife. That is the person I should have met. That's her right there. And so I joined the site immediately, and I write one email to her And I tell her, I joined the site because of you. I'm sending one email, one email only. And that's because you are my wife and you just don't know it yet. Okay, I really am insane.

No, that email, it's in your book. Everyone needs to read this. It was so charming and so fun.

Yeah, I did. I actually copied it. And she got. She's like, do you have to put that in the book? And I was like, it's kind of good. No. You know, so, yeah. And she replied, obviously. And we are still together and we are still married, and things are great, but I still have this other thing that I have to deal with, but I think I have it under control. But when I meet her, what happens is, up until now, I just see energy, right? They're not in physical form. I just. They're there. And I call them energy beings, but they're not people. This is the first time I actually am going to see an energy being as a person. And it was a man, and he was almost front and center, which in. In mediumship is like, unheard of for him to be here, you know, front and center. So he's a little on an angle, but he's very close.

So you saw him when you started dating this woman, Jessica? Correct. That's when you first saw him?

Yeah, we're only dating maybe a couple of. And this man comes to me and he says, I fucked up. I made a mistake. You can help her. I cannot. He was a big guy, beard, mustache, black hair, a lot of thick black hair. And he proceeds to tell me the same exact message. It's almost like replaying a video loop in my mind over and over and over. And it would be like, you know, every hour on the hour on Friday, and I'm just estimating times. And then Sunday, it was like every half hour. Excuse me. Friday, it was every hour. Saturday, it was every half. By Sunday it would. It felt like it was every five minutes. I can't function anymore. I can't drive. I can't hold a conversation. This. All I keep seeing is this video in my mind. So I remember I was at the counter and I was paying for my stuff at the counter. And I. I don't know what I did, froze or did something. And the woman asked me, she goes, sir, sir. And I look at her and she goes, are you okay? And I said, no, no, I'm not. And I went out to my car and I sat there and I started to plan for my. The end of my life. And I figured, this is it. I am insane. So I'm going to have to be put away, and I need to plan for this. I got to make sure my kids are taken care of. I got to make sure my will is. Is. Is properly done and in my dnr because I want to go back to the light. And I'm thinking all, like, analytically what I have to do, because I see people that are not there.

And do you think this is a hallucination still? At this point?

I don't know what it is. Yeah, I. But I, I. Maybe I'm schizophrenic. Maybe I'm just crazy. Maybe, you know, it took all this time to really get this bad. Maybe I was always insane, you know? So I have to tell the woman that I love, that I'm going to marry, and I have to somehow kind of like, let. Let her know that I'm sorry, you know, but this is what's going on. Now. To top everything off that I just told you, she is by trade a doctor of psychology and a doctor of neuropsychology. Okay? So this is who I'm dating. And I'm about to tell her, I see people that aren't there. Wonderful, right? Wonderful. Can't keep it from her. So I'm like, she'll at least give me the help I need. Send me to somebody, a professional that can really help me and run for the hills. That's what I expected. Here's the phone number. Call this guy. Never call me again. Have a great life. Talk to you soon. That's not what happens at all. In fact, when I proceed to tell her about the guy and what he says, she says, oh, that sounds like my dad. And I said, what? What do you mean, your dad? She goes, well, I've been to mediums, and my dad comes through, and he's very forceful. Every medium always says he's very, very forceful, like, almost front and center, like you just said. And I was like, wait, I don't. What's a medium? What is this thing? I don't even understand what you're talking about. And she explains what that is. Like I'm so in the dark about this stuff because I rejected it. And I would just laugh at it if anybody ever brought it up. So I would never acknowledge it. I just went with the medical insanity route. So I don't know what a medium is. And she goes, I'll relax. You're probably a psychic medium, and you don't know it. And I'm like, oh, my God, that doesn't sound good. But then again, insanity doesn't sound good either. So I said first, wait, I said timeout. I saw the picture of your dad on the mantle in your house. It does not look like that guy at all. This guy, beard, mustache, dark hair, thick dark hair, stocky guy. That guy in the picture was much lighter, didn't have any facial hair. It's not him. She goes, no, no, no, you don't understand. That picture is like 25 years old. Let me show you what he looked like on a day to day. And goes through her phone and proceeds to show me a photo of the man that's been speaking to me. And I'm like, holy, you know that guy? And she's like, that's my dad, silly. And my heart just like went right into the pit of my stomach. And I was, I, I didn't know how to react. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to say. I just kind of like froze up. And I guess for the first time I'm almost thinking that I may not be crazy. And once I tell her the message, he's gone. The feeling that I now have is one of euphoria. Much smaller than the one at the light, but similar in many, many ways. That's what I was supposed to do. I know that now. I was just supposed to deliver the message for the person it was going to. And that in this case was her. It was her message. And we later learn, not just from that message, but from others that follow, that it was a life threatening issue with a family member. And we had to get that person to a doctor because they didn't know something was wrong with them. How the heck do you do that? Hi, I've never met you before, but you need to go to the doctor immediately. You're going to die. And the way I know this is because of a dead guy. Think I'm coming for Thanksgiving that year? No, I don't think so. So we devise a plan, we put it together, this is all in the book and we, we, we kind of get it done and it works. But now, before, before we get to that, I'm still, you know, at this crossroads of reality. Not reality, I don't know yet. She says, well, let me take you to a medium. Here's the word again. Okay, what will happen? She's gonna. You guys can talk to each other and kind of share details. You just go in and say everything you see and how you see it and stuff and let her Tell you what you are. And I was like, that sounds like a good idea. That's okay. Let's do that. So she sets it up. We both go. We both have appointments. She's looking forward to speaking to her dad. And I'm petrified out of my mind that this might be real. But again, what's the alternative? So she says, you want to go first? And I said, yeah. Oh, yeah, I'm going first, because if I don't go now, I'm. I won't be here when you get out. So I go in, I sit down, and she says. I say, hi, my name is Ray. And she goes, oh, you're that Ray. And I was like, I don't know. What is that? What is that? She goes, just tell me your story. And I said, okay. I think I'm crazy. And she goes, mm, that's what they thought I was. Tell me more. And I said, well, these vibrations, they start. And my body. I could feel it on the inside.

And.

And sometimes they're deep, and sometimes they're high and kind of nice. And. And then it's followed by. I usually see a black line cross the room. And. And she's like, stop. And I told her more than that. Like, the window opens up. I called. The movie screen opens up, and. And everything. And the man is on the movie screen. And she's like, that's exactly the way I see it too. In fact, that's the way we all see it. And I was like, who's we? Mediums. Oh, okay. And here I am again. My heart's in my stomach. I don't know what. What do I do with this information? And she's like, just relax. Let's go through some of the other ones, because I had other ones. So I told her this one. I told her that one. And she says, okay, this is clairvoyance, and this is this and this is that. And she starts breaking it down and telling me the different things that I can do, all of which I've never believed in. So I remember just before I left, I asked her, because this was. There's this one question that everybody always asks me when I say something, and I have no idea what the answer is. So I said, what is the question that you hate the most in life? And at the same time, we said, how do you know that? And I said, I have no idea how the I know anything. She goes, me, too. It just comes. And there it is. And. And it's. It could be, like, something crazy off topic that I'VE never studied in my life, and I just get it. And it's, it's the craziest things. She's like, my whole life. So she proceeded to tell me that not only did her parents think she was crazy, but she actually was hospitalized and incorrectly, obviously. So, you know, I, I started to wonder how many other people are in institutions right now that are not crazy, they're just mediums and they don't know that's the case. And you can get this under control and you can live a perfectly normal life. I've never had a drink again. I've never had to take anything and go to sleep other than NyQuil, you know, so my life is, is back to normal. It's better than normal. It's better than it's ever been before. So afterwards leaving there, it was a matter of, you know, so what do I do with this? That was, that was the big question now. And I, it was. She took me on as a mentor. Thank God she did that because she taught me how to turn it on and off. Accept it when you want, don't accept it when you don't invite it. She also helped me get in touch with my spirit guide and guides, gave us exercise. She gave me exercises to do that increased our ability to, to communicate. And that was, that was a very big deal for me because even to this day I get those messages and I, I know what's up. So it was a year later and my wife and I decided to go away for my birthday. And she says, where do you want to go? You want to go like Bahamas or Aruba or. I was like the middle of a forest in a cabin on a 15 acre piece of property. We'll cook our own food and I'll poop in an outhouse. She's like, what is wrong with you? And I said, I have no idea. I love trees. I don't know why I love trees now, but I just love trees. I have to be with the trees. She's like, okay, we'll go with, we'll go with that. And so off we go into a cabin in the middle of nowhere and trees everywhere. And it's absolutely beautiful. And I was just kidding about the outhouse. We had a real actual bathroom and shower. But we do. I do up the ante and we get one with an outhouse eventually, but this wasn't the time. And anyway, we're there. And so she finds. Previously, before we get there, unbeknownst to me, she found a picture that one of the mediums drew for her of her dad while he was speaking to him. So the medium doesn't know what the man looks like. And he's a spirit artist and he's drawing the spirit that he's speaking with as he's telling her the sitter, what's happening. And she pulls this out. And I was like, oh, my God, that's your dad. That's exactly how I see him. The same shirt, the same everything. That is perfect. Spot on. Who drew that? And she goes, so? And so, you know, and I was like, wow, that's incredible. It made me feel good again because it, it, it was validating because it was identical to what I saw. And that shirt was like a, A, a type of shirt that you would have worn in that era. So it was very distinct. And so I said, who is this guy? I've got to find out who this guy is. And we, she told me his name and we looked him up online and right on his website, the very first thing it says is, we are now accepting applications for a two year mentorship program with Medium Joe. And the deadline to apply is February 15th. That is my birthday. She's like, are you going to apply? I said, yeah, because if that's not universal intervention, I have no idea what is. So I apply, and there's another application after that and essay questions and an interview, and it just keeps going on and on and on because he's only accepting people into the mentorship that are real and can prove that they're real. And I respect that. And a long time went by and nothing happened. And so I just felt like, okay, I didn't get in. I'm probably not real. I made all this up. Let me think about this. Yeah, I probably just, you know, I don't know, maybe I, something, I'm just trying to justify it away. Now I'm back to the white light is a sun and the gas fumes made me hallucinate. I'm all the way back, square one. I'm doubting myself. And. But I said, let me just reach out to his assistant. And I did. And I said, so I didn't get it. I just wanted to like, confirm that I didn't get it, which is, you know, it's fine. And she goes, no, no, no, no, no, no. I didn't say that. She goes, there's hundreds of applications that we have to go through. And I'm like, hundreds? And she's like, yeah, it's going to take, it's going to take Joe a long time. And I was like, oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't. I didn't know. And so now think I'm gonna. I'm gonna show you the integrity of this man. And one of the reasons I love him so much, hundreds of people wanted to get into this program. It cost thousands of dollars to get into this program. Not one, not 2000s of dollars to be in the program for two years with this man. Hundreds of people. And when I. I was chosen. I was number 11. There were 11 of us. He turned down all that money because he couldn't prove for certain that they were real. And I was like, wow, who does that? I'm still at a time in my life, I'm trying to make money. I'm thinking of retirement. I got two kids that are going to go to college and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I don't think I could have done that. Not then, anyway. So I get into this program, and he teaches me so much about so many things. Not just mediumship, but spirituality in general, how to manifest things and do so many things that I. That. That I learned today. And I start to learn everything that I can. I go back to college again, but this time for metaphysics.

And.

And I'm about to get my doctorate in metaphysics six years later. And I'm really excited about that. And I've also read every Eckhart Tolle, Joe Dispenza, anybody you can possibly think of under the sun from the spiritual side, Deepak Chopra, and more. I have studied these people. And then on the other side, I fell into physics. So I studied Einstein, Niels Bohr, Tesla, and all those rock stars, you know, Oppenheimer, Hubble, you. You name it, and, and. And what they discovered and how quantum physics makes sense of much of the spiritualism that we use every day. And they can be brought together. And what this did was it helped me, who's an eternal skeptic, accept what was happening. So now I'm like, I'm not a freak. Most people can do 80% of the stuff I can do. Maybe not the mediumship, but everything else we can do. We have six senses, we don't have five. And I recently, I was at an Ience conference where I was speaking and somebody else had reiterated what I put in the book was that in the early 1500s, when the very first medical journals were written.

May I clarify? You said an ION is the International.

Association of Near Death Survivors. Huge association that I highly recommend to anybody who has or had an nde, because you will Be surrounded with others who've had it. And it's so comforting to know that they all saw the same thing you did. Some, some aspect, some way. It all started the same way. The feelings were the same, the light was the same. And you know, they may have gone farther or done more, but everything is, is very, very similar. And so.

Hey everyone. I'm really excited to let you know about the science and spirituality salons I'm now hosting. During these intimate events, a scientifically verified psychic medium will give all of you readings. And I will give a talk on the science and evidence that changed my mind about an afterlife. This will also be an amazing opportunity to get to meet some of you in person or virtually and to share more about all the science and data that transformed my worldview and got me through my worst days. These can be hosted in your home, in a nearby cafe with a private room, or they can even be virtual. I've hosted a few already and they were really special, fascinating, emotional, evidential. So if you're interested in getting a small group together over dinner, brunch, drinks, coffee to learn more about the science and to get evidential medium readings, send me an email@hellotfjusthappened.net and put science and spirituality.

He was talking about the 1500s and how the very first medical textbooks were written with six senses, is not five. And you know, what had happened was, is back then, the church was all powerful, all knowing, you know, and they made the rules. And when they read about consciousness, they said, well, this sounds a lot like spirit souls. You know, we don't really want this overlapping. So you're just going to take that. And then they did. And anybody who didn't was punished. And we grew up being told.

Punished as in killed. Right?

Yeah, I mean, you know, people were burned at the stake for like 300 years. Like, okay, forget it. We don't need the six. They're good. So anyway, that then, then. But now we're in acceptance of this and we're able to look into it further. Now we have great scientists like Dean Raiden who's, you know, doing amazing things to, to bring us forward with consciousness and what we can do with that ability. Power of the mind. And, and I'm just, I'm so happy to be in this place. But in the life of a medium, I chose that, I chose to leave that from professionally or otherwise. I still, I'm still with Joe. I'm never leaving him. But not, not practicing. And, and the reason is, is because it's, it's I just had I an awakening like no other I've ever had. And I had it while I was writing the second book, near the end. And I actually went back and rewrote the second book. So I decided that it was in that moment I lost a lot of negative emotions. And in order for me to communicate, I have to be able to take on those emotions, whatever they are, whether they're good or bad. And a lot of times they're regret, remorse, guilt, shame, you know, And I have to feel those for a while. Even after the being leaves. I have them in me for a good two hours, two and a half hours. And I have to stay away from the kids and I have to stay away from my family. Because I'm not me right now. The things I say, the things I do are going to be highly reactive based upon the person I just allowed into me. So I have the utmost respect for mediums who practice this because it's hard. It's really hard. It's very taxing on your emotional state and it can affect those around you. So I chose. I just found happiness. 50 years. First 50 years. I didn't know what that word meant. Now I know exactly where it is. It's in me. It was never outside of me. That was foolish. And now it's. I see the world through a completely different lens and a completely different perspective. Things that I thought were important are just silly and. And. And I'll tell you, you know, I was practicing how to lose my anger, because that was my Achilles heel. And I grew up seeing that so much. And I put myself in those situations so much. Reinforcing and reinforcing it. It's all in my subconscious. My ego is dictating what I'm doing. And I have to break this. I have to fracture my ego. And so every time I would do something against what I currently believe, I would tell myself to redo it and I would replay it in my mind. Eckhart Tolle calls this being the director of your own life. Take a moment, take yourself out of yourself, and be the director you're starring in the movie, starring yourself. And you as the director, have to tell yourself how you want to behave, how you want to act, how you want to be. And that was brilliant. I did that all the time, over and over and over, and I mean, thousands of times. So eventually there was this one day. We were not married yet. We still had separate houses. And I was driving home from her house to mine. And the reason was, is there was a snowstorm coming. So I wanted to leave early. Had to work the next day, and work was closer to my house than hers, so I wanted to get a jump start. I got in the car, but, you know, the snow just came down really hard, and it was very difficult to see. So I'm driving home, I make a wrong turn, and I crash right into a deer. And normally. Normally this type of. Any type of accident, my adrenaline would surge, right? Fight or flight would kick in. Along with that for me would be anger. And I'd probably get out of the car ranting and raving and who knows what, kicking tires, I don't know. But none of that happened. There was no adrenaline. There was no surge of anger. There was nothing except compassion for the deer. Who am I, I thought. So I just go with it. And I. And I. And I try to help the deer, and the deer gets right up unharmed. And I thought for sure it was dead or. Or severely hurt. Not. Not neither. Gets up and I'm okay, too. Which is also amazing, because when you hit a deer, a lot of people wind up in the error. My car was in pretty bad shape. That was the loser of the day. Not the deer. Not me. The deer walks off. And I go to call my wife. Not my wife at the time, but my wife. And as I'm dialing the number, I'm like, why would I call her when I'm fine and I don't need help to ruin her night? She. The car is irrelevant, and that's the only thing that was hurt. So I got in the car. It was drivable. I drove very slow, and I just put it in a body shop, and I Uber to my house, and I went right to sleep. I didn't lose any sleep. I knew I could take an Uber in the morning. I knew that this can't hurt me. In fact, in comparison to the things I've been through, nothing can hurt me. And I'm really comfortable in knowing that. I just. I surrender to what is. I cannot change, go back in time and change hitting the deer. All I can do is decide how I want to feel from this moment forward. Do I want anger or do I want peace? And I want peace. And I did it naturally. Yeah, that was the first time.

Oh, that. I mean, I'm sure having peace after so many years of anger must just be like a form of bliss.

It really was. It really was. Exactly.

So I want to ask you a couple questions. First of all, you said physics ties into all of this. That was actually physics was the first thing I found that then kind of led me down this path. So how, how does physics tie in to survival of consciousness?

Oh my God. It's okay. So physics, especially quantum physics, really opened up a lot of doors. And in the second book, what I did was I would write about a spiritual concept and I would write about how I used it and replicated it. And then I would write how it. What's behind the curtain, what's under the hood, what makes this real. Because I thought people would like it that way. I knew it helped me. So I'll give you one example is the laws of attraction, right? The laws of attraction, the laws of vibration. The entire universe is run on energy, frequency and vibration. Tesla had it right on point. And everything responds to energy and frequency because it is another energy on a different frequency. And when you go into a meditative state and you begin to think of the item it is that you need and it's, this doesn't have to be an item. It can be anything. But I'm going to use money as an example because everybody gets that really easy. I don't mean the money, I mean the concept. And you can put yourself on that frequency and like attracts like frequencies. How do we know this? If I dial your cell phone from my cell phone, yours rings because they align on the same frequency. If I want to listen to the radio, the satellite dish is picking up the, the frequency transmitting it to remember, the old fashioned radios with the dials, right? You had to get it right on point. Otherwise you weren't getting it. You weren't getting it. If you're just a little off, you got static, you didn't get your song, you didn't get your information. But when they aligned, you got exactly what you wanted, right? This is how it works. So I had an instance where I had miscalculated my son's college fund money. Exactly $10,000 I was short. And the lady called me. And he was going to school in just a couple of days and he was on campus, so. And I don't want to let tell him he can't go. There's just no way that was happening. And my mentor had just taught me how to manifest through meditation. And I wasn't buying it. Honestly, I wasn't. Not yet. Not in that moment. I was like, okay, this is cool, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. But I had no choice. I didn't have the money to send in. So I was like, okay, let's see if this works. And I went into my meditation and it consists of Oz or Ohms, listening to them, saying them, getting, getting your frequency right, trying to get it into a resonant frequency, which is a relaxed state of being, our natural state of being where we're in harmony. And then we proceed to go do what I call an attitude of gratitude, which is say all the things you are thankful for. This will raise your frequency, this will raise your positivity. This will enhance everything in what you're about to ask for. And I don't ask. Okay, we don't ask. We are co creators of the universe. We are equal to not, less than not. Please, please, please, can I have. I need $10,000 and I need it now. We're partners. I need 10,000. I need it now. I need 10,000. I need it now. I will have 10,000. I will have it now. I need 10,001. Thank you for the 10,000. Thank you for the 10,001. It's past tense. I believe this with every fiber of my being that I am getting this 10,000. I know the universe is my partner, and I know it's going to deliver well. I get nothing. Not a thing. And it was around 5 o', clock, my mail comes late and my son brought the mail down. I looked at it and I went through it really quick just to see what was in there. And I saw that I had a tax bill from my accountant. I had just done my taxes and I said, partner, you're not getting this. I need. I need 10,000. Not pay more money to anyone. I need 10,000, I need it now. So I threw it aside, I didn't look at it. And the next day I did it six times. The advice was, do this twice a day for 90 days and you will either have the item or you'll be shown the way to get it. But I can't wait 90 days. I don't have 90 days. So I'm doing it six times a day. Do my eyes, do my own. Do my attitude of gratitude. I need 10,000. I need 10,000. I need it now. I need 10,000. Second day ends. Nothing. Nothing at all. And I'm starting to get bummed out, but I can't give up. And I start to think, who can I borrow from? Who can help me out? Who can spot me 10? And I'm going through these thoughts and I decide to pick up the mail. And I open it and I start reading the letters in the mail. And I get to the one from the accountant. Nice. I might as well see what the damage is. And I open it up. And he does the same thing every year. The first letter is, thank you for your business. You owe me X amount of dollars. Okay? I put that one aside. That's never the bad one, but it's not good. And I open up with the next one, and it's. It says, dear Ray, you have overpaid the government $8,200 and something, something cents. And I was like, are you kidding me? And I put the letter down, and then there's another letter, and the other one says, you've overpaid the state of New Jersey 1,800 and something something dollars and something something cents. That is 10,000. Just over 10,000 any. I gave it to you on the first day, dummy. I'm so sorry. I am so sorry. And I got dropped to my knees and I wept, and I. I was like, I will never doubt you again. And that's a true story. And I did it four more times thereafter. And then I stopped because I felt like I was being greedy. And all four in the book, and it's, it's really. It was amazing. It was amazing to see how that worked and then understand how it works under the hood too.

Well, I'm like, okay, can I go try for a billion dollars question?

Because I get that a lot. My own son, he says, why don't you ask for a billion dollars? And I said, because I can't believe it. I can't conceive a billion. I've never been in the presence of a billion. So if it's an amount that I can't digest and accept as reality, as my reality, I'm not going to get it. But if I use a number that I can conceive, then I will get that number. And it's. And it's very good to be very specific so that you can really acknowledge and know when you've received what it is that you're looking for. So don't make it like an ambiguous number. I just need enough for blank, you know. No, you need 10,000, you need 20,000. You know, if you can conceive 500,000, great, you know, go for it. And then when you get the five, then you can ask for a million, because you can conceive it, right? So you can build yourself up, but don't start at a super high number, because unless, I don't know, maybe you have a friend who's a billionaire and you've been on, you know, you've been exposed to that, but I never was. So it's those little tidbits of information are also in the book. The things to watch out for, how to think, how to ask, and what not to ask for.

And now in your first book, there were just lots of tidbits of evidence that I think are so kind of fun and very encouraging. I think the majority of listeners are people who are in grief who have a hard time believing there could be an afterlife. So evidence is so helpful to people like us. There was one story I just thought was fun, if you don't mind sharing it, about the shoes. It's just evidential and fun. Do you mind sharing that?

Okay, so.

And there's many in the book. This is just one of them. So.

So it was right around the beginning time. This was one of the stories that I. Or. Or I should say premonitions that I got when that I took to the first medium I went to. Her name was Bonnie, and it wasn't just the story of her dad, but I had other ones that I shared, and this was one of them. And what happened was, is I. Before I met with Bonnie, I got this message. This. This man came to me again, who. I have no idea who he is. And he's divulging information that is for his wife. And he specifies that it's for his wife, but I don't know who his wife is. And he wanted to tell her very prevalent information. And I took it all in. And just before he left, he did this, which I now know I should do this. Give me something evidential that she'll know, that no one else will know. But he said, remember the silly shoes? And I'm like, okay, I don't know what that is, but I will say it. Now, of course, I'm not going to say it. I'm going to give this to my wife and she's going to deliver it. Because I'm petrified of anyone knowing this comes from me. And I said, don't say it came for me. I don't want the neighbors to look at me like I'm nuts. Okay, you spoke to your medium friend. They gave you this. That's where it came from. Okay. Okay. So she goes, she has dinner with a woman. She tells her everything. The woman is in tears.

She.

Because she needed that information. She needed that closure that he gave her. And when my wife came back and told me, you have no idea how much that meant to her, I was like, great, what about. What about the shoes? Because if the silly shoes are real, I'm a believer. And she's like, oh, the shoes that's so funny. So I told her about the shoes, right? And what she said was, on their very first date, he wore the most ridiculous, ridiculous shoes she's ever seen in his entire life. And that became a running joke throughout their entire marriage. And here I am again, my mouth open, going, oh, my God, it's gonna be real now. What?

Yeah. And how had you known who this person was? You described him to Jessica. Jessica realized I didn't know.

But I always took it to her to see if she would know who the person was. She knew exactly who it was. I mean, exactly. And then told me what he looked like, and I knew what he looked like. And I'm like, that's the guy. So whoever his wife is, that's who this is for. It's amazing, actually. Crazy.

I always like to ask, of everything you've experienced, what would you say is your biggest. What? The evident. Yeah, whatever comes to your mind with that question.

You know, to be. You know, this. It may sound cheesy, but it's the most recent spiritual awakening that I had where I did not have anger. And it was the day after that car accident. I went to my. My acupuncturist. I was at work, and she's just right across the street. So I took a lunch break, and I went to her, and I was telling her the story, and she's, like, in tears. She's like, that's beautiful. And. And I'm like, yeah, but I have so much anxiety because. And she's like, why? What? Like, what could possibly be wrong with that? And I said, no, it's not wrong. It's just I don't know who the I am anymore. And I literally had to relearn who I was because the normal emotion that I would always go to is now gone. And that was my biggest moment because it literally changed the trajectory of the rest of my life. I quit that job because it didn't align with me. Not because the money wasn't fantastic, not because I wasn't getting benefits. I mean, it was all there. It was the package. It was the job anybody would want. And I just said to my boss, I can't do this anymore. He's like, I didn't see that coming. I said, neither did I, bro. Neither did I. And. And I just. And I just walked off to be an author. And trust me, you know, you don't become an author to make a million dollars right off the bat anyway.

Not right away. I'm trying to manifest that, I guess. Right.

I need A million dollars. I need a million dollars. So, you know, yeah, that was. That was it. That was the moment.

And you're so interested in the scientific aspect. Have you participated in or thought of participating in any of the research, such as the research being conducted at Division of Perceptual Studies at the University of Virginia?

I would love to go there. I actually was accepted in the Monroe Institute for a specific study where they were studying the brains of psychic and mediumship folks and how the brain, I guess, lights up or whatever it does, and I was chosen. And then, unfortunately, at the last minute, I could not go. I don't exactly remember why. Something came up in our lives and. But I was so excited to be there. And I also emailed Dean Radin. I'm like, if you ever need anybody, just I'm right here. Sign me up, hook me up to a machine, whatever you want, you know? So, yeah, I would love to. I would love to do that. Because think about it like, that could change everything for everybody. Right, right. If we can come up with not just a theory of how this works, but factual, like stuff that becomes accepted in science. Now, no one can't believe. I know that's not proper English. No one can. Everybody might believe, and. And we could change the world, but that has to happen first.

Now, I. I'm going to ask you a question along those lines. I don't expect the right answer, of course. How mechanistically do you think this could work? Because that's what I always hit up against. What quantum particle substance could this consciousness be if it's not only firing neurons of a brain? What? Oh, what do you think?

That one? Okay. Okay. Well, I have. I have. What? What I think so. The brain creates the mind, but the mind controls the brain, and it also controls all of you, and it also controls things around you. And we also know that that mind, which is created by energy and is energy in and of itself, and can. Can emit frequencies based upon the thoughts. Now think about how powerful this is. So you're emitting a frequency. How many times have you picked up the phone and you said hello, and it was the person you were just thinking about two seconds ago. That's not a coincidence. That's you sending out that person. You were thinking of the person, the person picks that up, and then they called you. So that's one of so many examples that I could literally give you that are very definitive, very, very definitive, that we can communicate and we don't need our five senses to do so. And once you really, really get into that higher realm with your mind. You can use all your senses in the sixth one, so you can elevate yourself to where you're only using the sixth. Right. But in that transmission of information. When I'm talking to Jen's dad, I can shake his hand. Not, not everybody I could do this with, but him I could feel, touch. He put his arm around me one time. So that's another sense that I took in, in a different realm of reality. And, and we can do this and that. I think if we can really somehow some way prove that, I think that would be a huge step for all of us.

Oh my God.

Did I answer your question? I'm not sure if I went off track on that.

You didn't go off track. You answered it as best as you can. It's an unanswerable question at this completely. No one is like, well, it's this quantum particle that was discovered in the Large Hadron Collider and it stored in this dimension of string theory. I mean, we don't know yet. It's all speculation. So you gave a very thoughtful speculation. And now what words would you have for someone who thinks like you used to, or I used to just thinks. The concept of an afterlife seems almost impossible, but they've recently had a loss or they might be terminal themselves. What is something you would say to someone like that?

Well, two different things. If, if the person was terminal, I would probably start to get into things like changing your relationship with, with death. Because when you really change that, which happened for me through an nde, you don't fear it, you don't have the anxiety. There's all, there's a, there's a, a restful feeling of knowing. And I guess, you know, this could go for both people, right, if you just lost somebody, but yet you understand that it's not the end. And here's why, and here's how we know that it really isn't the end. It can't be the end. And here's my, my. I have a theory on actually where we go and we die physically. And that is, this is, this is due to the first law of thermodynamics and it states that all energy cannot cease to exist and no new energy can come into the universe and no, it can cease to exist. So therefore it's always recycled. It goes from one form to another form to another form. Now that's science. That's, that's no woo woo stuff. That's fact. So if we are of the Understanding that our consciousness is energy, right? Then it has to go somewhere when the body dies. It must. There's. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. That's proven scientifically. Our energy must go someplace when we die. So I just started thinking, well, we have this energy that it emits from us and the body dies. Where does it go? And then we also have this other energy that takes up about 69% of the universe called dark energy. And we don't know what that is. So it. That has to come from somewhere and we have to go somewhere. And maybe that's. I'm not saying it's heaven or hell or anything else like that. I'm just saying that might be physically where our energy sits and lies. And it's in between you and me, and it's in the sky and it's in. It's everywhere. It's between me and Jupiter. It's in between me and the computer right now. So it's. It permeates every little section of the universe. And that could be where it goes from a scientific viewpoint. I don't. I don't know, but maybe they should get the Nobel ready. I don't know. I'm just kidding.

I would love if a Nobel Prize was awarded for this type of research. Yeah, lots of, lots of stigmas to overcome. But maybe one day.

No.

Is there anything I haven't asked you that you want me to ask you? Anything else you want to say?

I think that, you know, one of the most important things that we have to kind of remember is that we all come from this one source and that we all are going to return to that source. And it's so important that while we're here that we're really good to one another, because when you hurt someone else, you're hurting yourself. And you may not realize that in the. In the moment, but you will. When the time comes, you're going to realize that. And karma transcends. Don't think that it's, you know, you might. You might get off easy in this life or. But the next one may not be so easy. And we really have to try to elevate one another, help one another, you know, do something good for yourself, too. I mean, every day, try to do something good for yourself that's just about you, and do something that's for somebody else that's just about them. And, and living life that way, with that balance, you're helping yourself, helping others. And by helping yourself, you get to help more others. And I just think that that's like a really a nice way to live.

I love that actually. Can I ask one spin off question of this? A lot of people say we're all one and we go to a place of oneness. I'm not gonna lie, I think that sounds horrifying. I like being me. I like that my dad was him. What does that say for our individuality and who we are and who we love if we're all just one?

I think that we, we maintain our individuality absolutely on different levels of consciousness. Now remember my, my spirit guides, right? Let's, let's say they're in the fifth realm, okay. Because we're going to say that this is the third because it's been labeled the third, right? So this is third. Fourth is your pit stop when you die. And if you are an enlightened being, well then you get to skip four and go right to five and become one of these guides or masters. And there's no physical form at that level. You're still maintaining your individuality. Right? You're taking it as you go along into these different levels. Now you're going to say how many levels are there? I got no idea. How do you get to this one or that one? I have no idea. But what I do kind of think, almost know is that there are these levels and we do maintain our individuality, but the end of the day we're this energy that's being recycled and recycled and recycled. And you, if you come back, it's going to be you, but you're going to be in a different form, but it's going to be the same energy. I think.

Yeah.

None of us can say we know for sure. No, any of this. But I certainly feel more hopeful about survival of consciousness by far than I ever could have imagined. You know what, I'll take that.

That's right. Me too.

Okay, well thank you so much. Is there you feel completed anything?

Let me just mention that if anybody wants to go to my website, it's Ray Catania.com and you can learn more about the books there. They're available in most formats, in most countries, anywhere books are sold. And in addition to that, I'm going to be rolling out a new website which will have more online classes and opportunities like that. And of course if you want more one on one coaching, I'm always there for that as well. And I thank you so much for this time, Liz. Thank you for having me and I.

Thank you so much.

You ever wonder what mediums do with their free time. How about a 30 something year old gay medium living in New York City? Well, in this podcast you're about to find out. Welcome to Ghost Daddy, a place where LGBTQ spiritual communities, people and our CIS hetero allies of course have a place to just be themselves and spread their wisdom. This is the new face of spirituality. None of that love and light toxic positivity crap. So pour yourself a vodka soda, open up your mind and start listening. You can listen to the Ghost Daddy podcast anywhere where you listen to podcasts.

To get more information on what the fuck just happened, go to wtfjusthappened.net There you can order my book WTF Just Happened? A sciencey skeptic explores grief healing and evidence of an afterlife. You can learn all about how I came to conclude that there most likely is an afterlife, but you can also learn about the early stages of my grief and the amazing, fascinating people I met along the way. You can read about how much I harassed the mediums and scientists trying to get evidence to see if the mediums were cheating and see if what everyone was saying actually was true. You can also subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on any new developments and any any interesting new WTF updates. So if you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts. It makes such a difference, especially for a new podcast like this one. And if any of you have had a crazy WTF yourself, have any questions, feedback or just want to say hey, reach out on either Instagram @WTF just underscore happened. Underscore. Or email me at hello tfjusthappened.net I love hearing from all of you. It makes my day hearing your stories and questions and feedback and all of it. And remember, you don't have to draw any final conclusions as you wonder what the fuck just happened.