Renee Lossia Acho

You're listening to Inside Real Estate, your source for all things mortgage and real estate related. The show that brings you all the hottest topics and insights directly from those who know it most. Now sit back and enjoy the show. Yo, so we, we are back and we are still recording from home. How's everybody doing? My name is Paul Apostolakis. We have Salvatore Cuzmano. We have Brad Wise Gerber. We are Inside Real Estate. Thank you all for tuning in. We have a really cool guest today. I'll bring her up here in a minute. Renee Acho. She's one of the smartest agents that I talk to and she just has a lot of good knowledge. So I'll be really excited to hear from her what to her what the opening of real estate in metro Detroit or local in Michigan is going to mean and what that looks like in her mind. I'm kind of interested to see, you know, what she thinks about that. Obviously there's a lot of things going on with the world. I just, I really want to point out that Brad cut his hair. He does not look like Friar Tuck anymore. So what happened with, with the, with the coif, bro?

It was just getting too crazy. I had to cut it.

You just too, just too crazy. You just had to. It looks all right.

Yeah.

Sal, what are you gonna do about yours? Yeah, what are you gonna do about yours?

Your.

Your me?

I'm gonna wait, man.

You're gonna let it ride?

I'm gonna let it ride. We'll be all right.

I cut my hair today. Self self taught. I think. I don't think I'll ever go back to. I don't think I'll ever get my haircut. I don't think it's. They don't do that much better of a job. But anyways, so guys, like right now, as far as the mortgage market sell, like, what are you seeing on your end right now?

It seems like things are starting to come back a little bit. You know, lenders are starting to price aggressively. The influx of new business especially, you know, purchases and rate and term refi's not things that stabilize is good too. But I'm seeing a lot of different lenders. Some of them are fast, some of them are slow. Those that kind of lowered their rates or kept their rates low during the initial shutdown are, are now really backed up. Right.

So they took a lot of business on, right? Yeah. So turn times are definitely getting longer, right.

Across the board. So that's part of it. And then, you know, the other part with cash Out. You know, it's. It seems like a lot of lenders are pricing to not want those, you know.

So, yeah, the cash out is becoming so like, people don't want them almost. So it is interesting to see that and we'll talk some more about that. But I definitely want. I want to bring on Renee because she. She's on. We. Obviously she's. She's in the waiting room, but Renee just to. Just to introduce her properly. So Renee is a partner at Dome Keller Williams Domain. She. She basically out of Birmingham, Michigan. There she is.

What's up, girl?

So she does an amazing job there. She's. She has a great following. She's. She's done a great job of kind of like informing her audience and her followers like, during this whole. The whole process. So I'm really excited. Thank you for doing the show, Renee.

My pleasure. Thanks for.

Yeah, I know we had some. Some technical issues, huh?

Yeah, that's definitely not my strength. And during this crisis, if it's not, you're in trouble. So I've learned more than I ever wanted to about these apps and all the fun stuff that goes on behind.

Yeah, Yeah. I was talking to her every day just like screaming like.

It was.

It was awesome. It was awesome.

This isn't working.

You're like, what? Oh, it was awesome.

None of them are working.

Yeah. So I'm. I'm super excited to have you on. I mean, obviously we've had you on before, so if anybody wants to know your background or kind of more the backstory you to the other. Other episode. But I really want to spend some time picking your brain because I think you've got a good one and I'm interested to, like, what, in your opinion? Like, okay, so everybody's like, you know, obviously, Facebook, we're open for business. We're open for business. Everybody. I'm like, first of all, I know a lot of agents that didn't stop working, first of all. And then second of all, what does that mean? Right. What does it look like?

Yeah. And it doesn't mean what most people think. So it's just like everything when we're looking at post Covid reopen and getting back to the new normal, that normal is going to be totally different than what it was pre Covid. So the way you show houses, the way you list houses, the way any of that is done is going to be entirely different. It's going to involve a much more, you know, a lot more background leading up to. We're going to be, you know, people are going to be less willing to let people just walk into their homes. We have to have certain protocols and precautions and we can't necessarily go back to the office. So what we're just. We're able to show homes but very, very carefully and under very strict conditions as reopens is going to have it.

It changes you there, by the way.

Because I don't see you.

Yeah, no, I'm here. Can you hear me?

Hello?

Hold on a second. No, we're all here. Natalie, fix that. Hold on. Natalie, fix. Oh, there we go. Can you see us?

What's going on?

Yeah, can you see us now?

Where's everybody?

Did we lose her? Oh, boy.

Hysterical.

Can you hear us now?

You're back. I hear somebody, but I don't see anybody.

You don't see anything?

I don't think she hears Paul.

You guys are all here. We are. Okay, well, whoever just said that, I heard you, so why don't you give us another question? Because I don't see anybody else.

Are they talking loving technology?

I mean, I don't know. Can. Can. Can everybody else hear me? Can you guys hear me?

Yes. Yeah, we're all good.

All right, so anyways, we'll get back.

Here on my end.

Hey, Natalie, take her out and have her go back in. We'll. We'll bring her back up. Okay. We'll talk. We'll talk a little bit about what she was saying me. Will you take care of that?

Go ahead and leave and come back. Okay.

There we go.

Wow.

Technology. I gotta love it. But dude, I'm really interested to see, like. Because she's right. Right. Like, it's not going to look the same. I mean, there's. I mean, people have different fears and you kind of have to solve for a lot of different people because everybody's experience through this is very unique and their tolerances of what they want to be exposed to are very all over the spectrum. So you almost have to err on the. On the far one side to make sure that you're accommodating everyone. Right?

Yeah.

Yeah. I think, you know, that that goes for probably everything, right? Not just real estate, but, you know, how are they going to set up the. In the future? The bars, the restaurants, things like that. Right. Like, it's almost like you can play it safe and. And do it one way. And then there's going to be another group of people who want to really just kind of go full bore. And I think there's going to be a lot of arguments.

Arguments really, like. Like in terms of what? Like, between Pete clients and, like.

Yeah, just like. Well, people, you know, like, hey, get out of. You know, you're too close to me or whatever. Right. You're touching stuff. Like. But what are you gonna do?

Fight them maybe. You know, I mean, people.

People are people, right? So I don't know what's gonna happen. I mean, it's just. It's kind of crazy what's going on right now, and. Because it's at a point where, like, all right, a lot of people don't care about it anymore. Right?

Or there's a population of people that don't care anymore.

Right, Right. I mean, there's absolute facts that this is something that, you know has killed people. Right?

Yeah.

But there's also a ton of people out there who potentially have no. No risk of. Or very little risk of. Of having any issues. Right. Like, true issues. So it's a majority of people, I would say. Right. So see what happens. You know, we'll see if there's another wave.

Boom. We got her back. Can you hear us?

I was hearing you guys. You didn't hear me.

So perfect. All right, so. So we were just talking about how. So we were talking about how, like, you kind of have to solve for the most extreme part because there's people all over. Everybody's experience is unique right now. Right? And she's gone. All right. All right. Get her off the screen to tally. We're done with her right now. Dude, man. This is. We. I mean, there's got to be.

I don't know.

It's always something different.

Always.

I think it might be because she's on her phone, maybe.

Who knows? All right, so she was. I feel like she had something really important to say. Hopefully we can get her back.

What happens, though, if we do get a second wave? Because I don't want. I mean, this is unconfirmed. I haven't done any research on this, but I heard last night that the virus actually mutated, and there's another strain of it now that's more contagious, which I don't know that to be fact, but I'm really, really interested to see.

You're quitting? What? You're gonna quit real estate? She's back, everyone.

It goes first time.

All right, let's get your. Because let's try to fit this in. I feel like you're gonna turn into a pumpkin.

I mean, this is the. This is why Covid's gonna make me crazy because of technology.

It. Let's have a drink. Let's have a drink right now.

It's shot time. Every time it cuts me out, I'm gonna do a shot for melon it.

So let's. Let's talk about that.

Houses. Very, very scary thing for people to let people inside of. And then people are like, just what you were saying. I don't give a crap. I'm letting people in. I'm ready to move forward. And I think that that's the nature of any of these businesses. From, are you going to go to a restaurant or you're not going to go to restaurant. But real estate is something that isn't really a choice for a lot of people. It's something they actually either have to buy or have to sell.

They're moving their kids.

They're.

They're out. Right.

There's something happened, right?

Business went to someone's house this morning. It's transferring. They're loaded their truck up. They have to sell.

They have to.

So I think what's going to happen for real estate, which people are, you know, are not paying as much attention, didn't really understand leading into this, we already were a low inventory situation in most of the areas in Oakland county where, you know, we primarily do business. So our inventory across the nation has been low, and we came off the heels of 12 years of an uptick in real estate, so. So even a correction right now is overdue by probably two years.

Yeah.

But what we don't have, and the reason it's stabilized and I think we didn't get the correction that we were probably lined up to have two years ago was because supply inventory levels were low. Exactly.

Supply and demand didn't wane as much as the supply. Right.

No, I mean, look, it's. It's a simple supply and demand curve. That's exactly what's going on. So now, after Covid, you're going to have people who are not as committed to selling their homes, removing them from the market.

Correct.

So as they remove their houses, you know, that's gonna. That's gonna decrease inventory even further, which is then going to. For those people who are in, you know, in the demand pool, they're gonna have less election. So we may see stabilized prices. We don't know yet, but. Right.

Well, throw in low interest rates in there too. Right.

You've got low interest rates for sure. You got low inventory, low interest rates, and certain, you know, certain.

We lost her again, everyone. What the. That's great. All right. I love her. We're gonna get her back on the show. Again, because she's so good, she's so smart. I feel bad that her. Her technology skills are just lacking as far as the webcam thing. But.

Low inventory, low rates. What about low demand? I mean, the demand might be there, but people might not be able to qualify for finances.

Right, There we go. Yeah, yeah, Take a shot. There we go.

You know, one. One thing I think that's pretty poignant, though, with real estate. Like you said, it's a must. Right. And it takes two to tango. It's not like a buyer can just walk up to someone's house and knock on the door and be like, I'm coming in and buying this house. Right. I mean. Right. I think as agents, you know, they have to prepare and kind of like just right now, like, when we close a refi. Right. How are we going to close this? Like, when it comes time, everything's done.

Yeah.

How do you want to close this? Do you want us to drop the package off at the door? Do you want, you know, are you okay meeting in person? Do you want to do an E sign closing? I mean, I think as an agent, knowing the seller's preferences and communicating that to the buyer's agent is going to help for smooth transactions. And.

And that's what's in process right now. So coming right straight from, you know, the national associations down to the specific offices, all of that is being done and handled now on a hands up. I closed three properties during COVID with no involvement and interaction from buyers, sellers, title companies. Everything was done electronically. So that's going to become more the norm. Maybe not to the extreme that we're doing it right now, but certainly we've already talked about how we're going to shift behaviors in the office, how our office space is going to shift, closings are going to shift. So there's going to be a lot of that, but there will be ways. I mean, we had to do that because the business had to continue. People were still in process of closing. So even in the fear factor that we're in, as far as the unknowns, people are.

There's. People are transacting. There is, There's. There's an appetite for homes. There really are. I. But, like, I feel like it. Like I'm getting, like, just from our business, we're getting a lot of activity on the purchase side. And like, I see that there's still an appetite there now. The. The restrictions are creating a smaller population of people that can buy now, too. Right. So that's going to constrict the ability of mass buyers is going to get really whittled down to the top tiered.

Well, and here's what's going to be the most important, I think for sellers, and I just had this conversation this morning with my clients right now. You have to jump through hoops to get into a house. Now. It's not like, hey, we're bored on a Sunday, let's go to an open house. There are no open houses. There aren't going to be broker open houses. If you're going to go and see nobody's kicking tires, no one's kicking tires. You're probably driven by the house first. You've done whatever due diligence you did up front, you're getting pretty approvals that are accurate. So people, when you go in, the pricing is going to be crucial too, because, you know, before people say, well, let me test the market and see, the testing of the market is now a whole different shift. You're, you're not going to get that buyer or handful of buyers that go in and are like, let me see, maybe I'll go up on price. I mean, you really have to be mindful of how you price because you've just narrowed down the number of people that are actually going to come and see your house and the exposure that it's getting is going to be much more limited. So I think that sellers have to be mindful of that. But for me, not one of my sellers that was. That pulled off during COVID is not going back on. And one, none of them are really adjusting their prices yet. And I'm having these conversations.

Yeah, that, that's, it's starting to happen. Right. You got, you got to get a little bit more aggressive on the pricing because the, again, the, your, your, your potential buyer population is dropping too. Right. With unemployment and all that. So what, what do you think is going to happen with all these marginal agents that, you know what I mean?

Your industry, in my industry, this is a, this is going to be in any industry going right from what we're talking, real estate, restaurants, hairdressers, you name it. This is going to be a situation where people that were, you know, dabbling in it or thought it was an easy thing to do. This is going to weed them right out because it's not cheap to, you know, continue licensing and doing all the things that you have to do to be a good agent. And it's, it was, you know, it's a hard business to be in. Much harder than I think people understand.

Yeah, people underestimate the level of that you have to work at to be good at it.

Yeah, I mean, I love when people come in and they say, oh, I just love houses. So I wanted to get. It's not about houses because that's only like a fraction of what this is about. So much more.

Yeah, it's like me saying, I love math.

Right.

Well, I think even I like decorating. Even agents who are doing well before doing things a way that now isn't allowed or whatever.

Right.

Or there's issues doing. So if you don't adapt, you won't survive. Right.

Well, the most important thing in any business, and I say it all the time, complacency kills any kind of entrepreneurial behavior. If you ever become complacent, regardless of market, even if it's a strong market, you have to adapt and shift with whatever you're doing, regardless of market conditions. And so right now, shifting and not shifting just for the curtain crisis, but shifting to adapt to technology, which clearly I'm still working on, is going to be the new age and new way of doing things. So the whole way you do your business has to be shifting everything from the guidelines on showing a house to how you interact with clients, to how you use different forms of technology to adapt to sales. Now everybody has to be shifting because this is not going to be gone. I think anyone who thinks this is a one and done, the idea of being sheltering in place is this is going to become a little more common practice and it might be even voluntary that I say, you know, what if January is a bad month for the flu? Maybe I just work from home more because we learned that we can. So you have to make sure you're upping your game to create the new normal and have the tools and skill set to be able to provide that to everybody. And not everyone's going to put that commitment in.

I think every. I think every agent is going to be on board with getting rid of open houses. I don't think anyone's gonna be like, no, I really want to do that open house wrong.

I'm gonna tell you why. Do you know that open houses are not for bought for buyers and sellers? You know who open houses are for?

Loan officers trying to meet agents and.

Realtors trying to, you know, network lead generation. So it's a lead resource. People think that their house is being open because their generous agent wants to come. And, you know, no less than 3% of homes are sold at an open house. It's, you know, it's an it's an opportunity to lead, generate, which now without open house, that's one more reason that you were just saying people are going to leave the business. It's too hard to find those. Those.

They don't.

They.

They can't figure out a way to create, generate leads or business because their, their ability to do that's kind of being restricted. But if you adapt, Renee, let's say you decided to boost your marketing in one aspect or work a different. Right. There is there. There's going to be a lot of opportunity for the ones that do figure it out, right?

Oh, yeah. People who have a handle on. On, you know, SEO and Google Search and, and all the other ways of, you know, getting business, which is, you know, that we got you. That would be, you know, much more common practice than it was before. And the old antiquated ways are going to move, which they were already shifting out of anyway prior to Covid. So there's. There's always ways. It's. It's going to be who leverages the best and what kind of business model you're trying to create.

Yeah, I think there's a huge opportunity for people right now.

You just went quiet on me.

See, you can't do that. Natalia, when, when you do that, it punts her out like we, like we did last time.

So.

So I'm just gonna leave the screen with all fours and we're gonna give.

That's it. Just leave it like that for the. If. I mean, if that's working. Don't. Don't mess with it, please. Man. If you're listening to the podcast and you're not actually like watching this, it probably is boring the out of you. I'm sorry about that.

They're probably like, what is happening?

Like, well, I'm like. Because we're doing this video. It's a good pro. There we go. I think she's back. Are you drinking? Shot. Okay. This is awesome. This is what Live is all about.

So what do you think? You know, I mean, before this and, and for some time, right. Like Zillow, realtor.com lead sources like that were huge. And I feel like people were. Well, some teams and some agents wanted to get away from it. Right.

And kind of there's so many people relying on.

On their own marketing. Like you were saying SEO things of that sort. What do you think that this is going to do to that? You think Zillow and realtor.com are going to come back stronger?

Yeah, I do. I think there's going to be More avenues like that. I think, you know matterports, which is a virtual tour.

Right.

It's, it's an app that I did not. I thought it was giving away too much information so I shied away with it from it. Now people, you know, videos, video tours, anything that you can provide. And yes, I think that people are going to rely more on these apps because like we said, they're going to do due diligence prior to entering a home and one of them is, you know, going to be looking at as much information on different sites as they can.

So how does a realist, how does a real estate agent that doesn't have technology? Right, right. There's some lot of offices. I mean I've seen a handwritten pas like you know, in the last like two years. Right. You know what I mean? That still happens. What happens to them? Even if they're good agents and they've got a good following, how do they adapt to this?

No one's going to have a choice. I mean, you know, the reality is that's a different model of business. Like my business, I don't do a lot of Zillow. I don't do the lead generation that way because my business has been primarily referral based. I've created a long list of referral and, and fortunately, you know, that's been my primary business. It doesn't mean that I haven't adapted to use other resources. But people who are that antiquated in the way that they've done their business, it's worked and it probably will continue to work for some time because they too probably rely primarily on the relationships that they already had instead of doing what we're talking about, which is lead generating and expanding business and expanding teams. That's a different, that's a completely different profile of an agent is we're talking to. And I think they'll be okay, but who knows?

I think they're more worried about COVID because if they're handwriting TAs, they're probably pretty old.

Do you think there's going to be a struggle to capture more sales? Because with people relying more on technology and not having that face to face or in person interaction, really fall in love with the house and the agent to be there to enhance that and to really make a sale. Do you think that people are going to struggle with that?

That's a really great question. What is the role of the real. If it is all virtual, where is the value prop? That's a good point.

Yeah. So if you look at there's a couple articles about some of the companies like Compass and the Zillow. You know, when they were going to create their own, you know, everything was going A.I.

The I buyer, the Ibuyer artificial intelligence.

And we were going to be a thing of the past. If you look now at, you know, this was, this was the opportunity for platforms like that to really see whether or not they were going to succeed. And they weren't. They didn't. There is still something about the guidance, the value, the knowledge what's provided. You know, you can diagnose a value on a screen. You have to understand that and that comes with a professional. You're not going to represent yourself in a, in a court case and you're not going to represent, you know, you're not going to just go to. These are still. It's still the largest investment that people make and it's still very emotional and it's still, you know, it involves so much more than just saying, hey, I like the paint colors and the, you know, floor color of this house. So I think, you know, we are seeing more now than ever how much people do still rely on having that personal relationship. And so as things loosen up, when we're still going to go show houses, we're still going to be there. It's just going to be the way it's done will be different. Not that we're going anywhere.

That's. Yeah, I think that's true. I think there people actually on the opposite, on the other hand, I really think there's a huge population of people that actually want someone to be a professional and walk them through and guide them through the pro. It's a compl. Especially now. Right. Like people are going to want the best experts. They need the best counsel. They need the best, like don't, don't like in this environment, in my opinion, like, look, two years ago you could fall and trip and a realtor could get a deal. Right, Right. In today's market, it's very acute, the skill set that you need to have to be able to navigate these waters. So I do believe that the, the good ones are really going to thrive in this. I really do. I think anybody that's professional right now is going to get business.

Well, look, it's Darwinism across the board on everything. Right. It's going to be survival of the fittest for everybody. Restaurants, you know, like we said, everything is going to be based on the strength, knowledge and you know, the clientele that you had going into this as well, how strong you're going to be coming out of it and how able you were to adapt during anything, you know, experience you've had. I mean, my experience of dealing with, you know, the, you know, 2008 crisis and understanding how to navigate that. And then prior to that, you know, we had nine, 11, you know, understanding how these ripple effects affect market.

You feel like 08. Do you feel like 08 prepares you a little bit for this?

I think anything that is an experience prepares you for the next experience. I mean, it is a completely different experience. 2008 is nothing like what we're dealing with now. And anybody who thinks it is is really doesn't.

Totally different.

Our history.

Totally different.

It's a whole different crisis that was, you know, dealt. It was created by economy, by economics, and it was an economic crisis.

And the housing market was a big part of that crisis.

Was the crisis.

Right.

This is not. This is a result of a health crisis that is a affecting, you know, that. And we have a strong and stabilized economy, not a weak, you know, economy that was built on, you know, a deck of car, you know, which is what 2008 was.

Right.

So what's different about it is the way we went in and the way we're coming out. But what's very much the same is the uncertainty, you know, the fear factor, the unknown. What I've explained to a lot of my clients, you know, I think of it as a crisis between one was a hurricane. This is more like a hurricane versus the earthquake. An earthquake kind of came out of nowhere we didn't expect in 2008. We were unstable, so everything shattered and crumbled around us. And then we had to just fix and repair. This situation is more in line with the hurricane where we're preparing, we're putting on the hurricane shutters, we're evacuating all the stimulus packages.

Very good point.

All the things that are going in to stabilize what was already strong but stabilized so that the outcome which will have, you know, there will be damage, but it will be somewhat minimized and be able to actually, you know, we see the storm coming, we know how to. How to.

We're weathering it, right? We're weathering the storm. I agree. Storm 100. But. But does it drive you nuts? And it drives me a little nuts when I hear this. But. And I don't blame people for it, so. But it just. Internally I get a little angst is when people say, oh, I'm gonna pick up so many good deals during this next downturn. I'm gonna like I'm like, bro, like you. That's not how it's gonna work.

Well, it will in certain areas.

It will, yeah.

I mean, I had somebody who said to me the other day, am I going to get a Covid discount?

Were you? Did you. I mean, whoever that was, God bless you, but you should have slapped it.

I mean, we're already getting offers on things like half million dollars under the list price, you know, on two men. We're like, I'm sorry.

Yeah, yeah. Everybody wants a deal right now.

There will be some of those and there are going to be. Certain areas are going to be hit harder than others, for sure. Things that were climbing up that weren't as stable as certain areas that have shown, you know, a trajectory over the last hundred years of growth or 50 years or 20.

But the problem is it's when everybody thinks they're getting a deal on everything.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Everything is a deal. Everything's going to be a free. Which is not. Not one of my clients is. Is my sellers have reduced their price. Yeah.

People. Yeah. They think they can get it right.

And they don't have to sell. So that's the crucial difference between 2008 now people had to sell. They were underwater. They use their house as an ATM machine or whatever the situation was. So they had. They were forced to sell. This is more still, people, for the most part not, you know, we're going to see what happens. There will be people who are going to have to adjust, but with the stimulus packages providing people for, you know, the forbearance and everything.

Stabilization. Yeah.

They're hopefully, God willing, going to be more stabilized. And that forced sale isn't going to create the forced buy.

Right, right, right. Let me ask you this. What do you think the effect on the human psychology? Because I say this, this is the first time, in my opinion, that I've actually lived in my home. You know what I mean? I was coming and going. It was basically my hotel. I spent a few hours with the kids and I went to bed. Right. That was it. Like, I went up, got up and went to the office. So this might be the first time I've ever lived in my home. And I'm actually enjoying. I'm looking around like, hey, I got a good place. I like. I'm glad I figured out, you know, what do you think these psychological effect? Because I might. I was thinking about moving. I was kind of poo pooing my house a little bit. I've kind of fallen in love with it now. I don't want to go anywhere.

So there's two parts of it. There's you, right? Yeah. My house is awesome. I never really appreciated but there's the.

Other side of it. Want to hate it? I'm gonna lose it.

So the biggest question that we've had from people is we'd like to. A lot of people want to have the home office or the home gym. So things that they're understanding, they can't. This is now the new normal. Right.

I need a gym, dude. Right. So I need an office. Right.

Not go back to the gym or you know, if I don't go for six months ride. They're learning the things that, that they're missing in their home and their lifestyle at home and they're making adjustments. I've had a lot of contractors be requested to do like at home offices over the garage or you know re outfit a basement to have, you know, a space because the kids are running around or the dog is running around and you're trying to do a zoom call or whatever.

I think home improvement companies are going to boom.

Yeah. There's going to be a lot of adjustment on the home and that people need to be careful too. I've been doing a lot of chip.

You don't suggest gold plated toilets.

Probably not unless they're the government. And then, you know, you just write the check for the taxpayer.

Right. To your point. Just to go back to that so the audience understands when you say people should be careful about that. And I'm alluding to the idea that you might think that people might be overspending over indulging and not actually adding as much value to their home as they think.

So my, the most my phone calls that I've had with clients that are, you know, now trying to decide if they're going to list their house. Not the ones that were previously listed, but people who are making.

Yeah.

Now and saying do I fix my house? Do I not? You have to look at what your value in your home is currently, how much equity you currently have in your house and how much that project and improvement is going to cost you and whether or not that's an improvement that you're doing because you want it or an improvement that's going to actually increase the value.

If you're doing it for investment, you've got to be careful to your point or just be okay just paying for it and understand that it might be a bad investment. Right.

And in some homes, in some situations it's an improvement investment. Adding another bathroom redoing a master bath, just, you know, converting a four bedroom to a three bedroom to make a home office might make sense, but you really should talk to an agent and understand if you spend $30,000 doing this, are you better off selling your house, buying at 3% interest right now and using that money and to improve a home maybe at the same price point, but that already has the bones and functionality that you're looking for. So you have to really, you should evaluate whether or not the investment in your, your specific home makes better sense than an investment in a lateral move that might, you know, be more worthy of the equity.

Yeah, Brad, I was going to ask you something.

I just spent $20,000 and put new windows in my house. Can I get an extra 20,000 on my list price now?

And that's the question you needed to have done the event. You needed to ask me first and you didn't.

There you go, there you go.

Home improvement, things like that, furnaces, windows, roofs, those are always good because it's not a deferred maintenance that, you know, people are going to look at and factor that in. But if you were already past your equity point of, of doing that, it, you know, you might have just had to do it for your own personal enjoyment.

Yeah. Yeah. Sal, I want to ask, yeah, Sal, what do you think the, the effect of the mortgage restrictions as far as, you know, there's restrictions on cash out now, there's restrictions on dti, the, the people that thought they were quality. I mean, right now like a 680 is like, you know, you're not that great. Like you barely making it, right?

Yeah, I mean, it's starting to come.

Back, but it's coming back. But my point is it's just, it's constricting, right? So it's like what, what do you think that's going to do to the effect on buyers, right?

Probably not much, man. To be honest, I don't think we're.

Gonna, I, I don't think it's that big of a deal.

I think that, you know, this is gonna come back here pretty soon and if you, you don't have a high chance of potentially buying a house anyways with, with low credit, no money, right? Like, these are kind of like the, the one offs where it like doesn't work or it's really.

But there was a lot of people doing this. Like that wasn't our bread, but maybe.

Like cash out and whatnot. But like from a buyer perspective, there are a lot of lenders with no overlays Right. There really is. So it's just a, it's a thing that I think we're going to have to see and kind of we. What financial implications does this whole thing have on the market? Right.

Regardless. But my thing is it is going to get harder for people to buy homes. It's, it's, you know, the jumbo market is, is very, very influx. Right. Liquidity is an issue on the back end. So there it is going to get tighter. So what do you, what Renee, what do you think? You think it's going to up or do you think it's just.

I think that you're going to have the same like you know, what sales thing. You're going to have people who really couldn't afford to buy in the first place. And it's going to put everybody into an a readjust, you know, they're gonna have to readjust. But I think the bigger problem is going to be the down payment for people who are really dipping into their personal savings to keep businesses afloat. That's going to hurt their ability. Where you know, some of the ten loans and some. We were starting to see some of the ease on opportunities for people to get, to get, you know, lower doc and block all the crap that happened in 2008 was starting to re.

It started to. Yeah, they were, yeah. I was out there.

I mean a 5% down jumbo loan. I mean, you know, if you can't verify a significant amount of reserves, that person probably doesn't have any business buying that home. Right. And everything's great. When everything's great and then they think.

They'Re rocking it out.

But luckily I think that, you know, the lenders were quick to react on this and put the temporary restrictions in place while things are shut down. Once the world's back open again, even if it's a different open, that's when we're going to see I think permanent guidelines put in place.

Yes.

And they probably aren't going to be as extreme I think as everyone's thinking.

I agree, I agree with you.

We tested the at home work and that works. Right. I mean a lot of people are doing that. I think what we're going to see that is going to really affect the real estate market is going to be appraisals. Right. How are those going to be done in the future? How is the technology going to be implemented to essentially is it going to. I don't think anytime soon. Right. But in five to 10 years is it almost gonna be like a price fixing and if you want to go above and beyond that, you just have to pay that. And if your loan requires, you put 5% down, but you want to pay an extra 10,000 on this house that the bank's already valued at a fixed price, well, that's for you to negotiate with your agent, Right?

Yeah. And appraisals, that's something we've talked a lot about as agents as well. Because in the last, you know, typically appraisals you went back what, three, four months and then can't do that now. Well, the last three months are useless, you know.

Right.

So what do we base? Can we go back and then you look at. All right, if I go back an additional three months and you go back nine months. Now I'm taking comps from the worst season, you know, that we come off of.

And they didn't go in the house. December, January, they did desktop appraisals. We've got a ton of property inspection waivers. Right.

1.8 million dollar house. They did a drive by appraisal. I'm like, what?

Are you serious?

Yeah.

Who's buying that paper, dude? Wow.

I mean, who's buying that house? And then I know for a fact, for sure, these values that I'm getting on some of these refis are way too high. You think $100,000 high? One for 100. Certain. They just bought it last year. Sure. For 450 grand. And put nothing into it. I throw 600 and we get an appraisal waiver.

Oh, are you serious?

Crazy.

You know, get out an equity line right now.

Well, but they won't do it on cash out, right?

Yeah, you can't.

Maybe.

I mean, listen, I think, I think the long and short of it is I, I do think that the mortgage market is reacting the right way. I mean, it's constricting right now to be safe because otherwise you can't have it fall apart. You need liquidity, right?

Who has business buying a house if you don't have one month or two months reserves in the, in the bank, Right. And I'll be honest, when I bought my house, I didn't.

But.

I had no business by now.

I had no business probably buying a house. And I got figured it out, right. I'm in a commission based business, right. I mean, you have. I know it's crazy. These government loans which took the biggest withhold like withdrawal from the market. Right. From a price standpoint, like FHA loans became almost impossible to do just due to the price. But I mean, I just priced FHA loan Out this morning. It was good pricing, three and a quarter, you know. But I do believe that, like they should take a good look at that. I mean, FHA basically was subprime in some circumstances. Let me get this straight. On your gross income, we have a 56.99 DTI. You have a 602 credit score. You have no money in the bank. You gotta go put a hundred dollars in your bank account and print something out. I don't know where you're gonna get it from just to close. And I mean, it's nuts.

And here's the keys.

Yeah, it's nuts. And who has $300,000 in the bank? You know, who wants to buy his conservative $250,000 house but doesn't show everything that he makes on his tax return? Can't buy. He's a 760 credit and accounts open for 20 years. Crazy.

Well, what do you think is going to happen for people who, you know, did the deferment on their payments or, you know, took unemployment three months? Is that all going to get adjusted back into how you guys observe?

Well.

Would you want to, would you want to lend someone $200,000 that, I mean that, that said, I'm not gonna pay my payment for the last 3, 4, 512 months.

I think if they made the baron. If they, I think, and I hope if the person did the forbearance and truly paid it back. Right. I don't think they should be.

They truly needed it.

Right.

But some people don't really need it. They've made it so easy that like everyone's just taking it. Like, yeah, I'd love to not pay my next three months so that I can just have a little reprieve and put it back on the back end or re, you know, readjust it in my payment because right now, you know, your income is not the same. But I've, they've made it in some of these situations so easy that I'm wondering what the impact is going to be. Is there going to be, you know, some kind of repercussion on that?

I think my opinion is going to.

Be with the irs. Right. Hey, do you own a business that took a PPP loan? Right. What type of restrictions or additional taxes do they potentially put on that, if any?

Right.

I don't know.

You never know. There's people will judge it the way they want, want to judge it, and then you can't control that. Right. I wouldn't do a forbearance personally.

Is for a, like a, someone who were calculating their income. They're not salaried.

Right.

Like let's say a commission person. Like, how are we going to calculate that? Are we including those months on the average? Are we doing other things to potentially have a realistic understanding at that or is it just going to basically be black and white? Hey, we know you didn't work for those three months. So your year to date slow. Now you don't qualify.

Sure. And then we're telling all of our clients, don't you don't come into any of my houses and give me some kind of a pre approval. That was pre Covid. Everyone's pre approvals need to be updated because everyone's employment is updated. Your stock portfolio needs to be updated.

Guidelines have changed.

Restrictions.

Yeah, everything.

People are like, oh yeah, they're pre qualified. And I said, well when, when, when.

And you know, that's a different life. None of that. Nothing that mattered then matters now.

People have called us, you know, or I just get an email, hey, here's our purchase agreement. I'm like, well, dude, I haven't talked to you in like two months. You know, like, I mean, I know I've tried to proactively reach out to as many people as I can, but it's just impossible to talk to everyone about it. Right. In their specific situation. But I've definitely had deals come in that, hey, I was planning on sending this to this lender. I can't do that anymore. They won't allow it because of X reason. Right. Or do you have 12 months reserves because you're self employed? Do we have to chop your income 25%? Do we have to do all these things? And it's just more of a minefield for us to navigate. But at least being a broker, we have five, six different options to make sure that it gets done right. Like some banks, they change the rules and if that's where you're pre approved, that's that you have to talk to another lender. So I think it's important for buyers to get multiple opinions.

Yeah, there's gonna be different programs. I was telling my team the other day, everyone, there's gonna be different programs available at different, different banks. Chase is, you know, making all kinds of strong restrictions on 700 credit scores. And you know, a lot of these banks have you. It's really going to be important to shop around what you're looking for. Like your point about Realtors having people who are really savvy in the business who understand how to navigate these, you.

Need pros you need pros right now.

Yeah, you need pros in the.

In the lending, both sides. You need pros. And those pros sometimes. I'm sorry, go ahead.

If your bank tells you no, call. Call someone else. Right?

Because, I mean, or even if they tell you yes, but your terms or.

Your down payment, because they're so starkly different across the board right now.

There were some banks that weren't even doing refis a couple months ago. They put a whole. You know, they put a hold on that because they were getting inundated, which is also going to change the market because I think people are going to say, you know, what if I was going to sell my house now I can just refi at three or three and a half percent or whatever it is, and I'll stick around for a couple more. More years.

So the whole market is upside down.

25 of their payment, you know? Yeah, it's like, okay, you know, I mean, before.

I mean, at two.

Right.

Two and a half percent. I'm like, what?

Yeah, we're gonna get real busy here soon, so we're gonna do three questions. All right. I don't know if we did this the last time, but we've been doing this on all our episodes since. And I know you're an avid watcher, you saw them all, so I totally get it. So first question is, what is one skill that you thought you'd never be able to accomplish that you picked up during COVID but, like, cooking, maybe?

I cook all the time.

I know, I know. I gotta come up. What's your best Middle Eastern dish?

Oh, that is. Okay. So that's something I made, you know, those rolled grape leaves. You guys, I know everyone's like, if you're a chance. So Dolma, which is what we call it, I made, by myself a huge pot of dolman. Rolled the grape leaves and the. The cabbage and everything and made. It was fabulous.

Was it good?

Yeah, my mom was very impressed. She was on FaceTime with me and yelling about how exactly you're doing it wrong. No, you got.

Yeah, you're like, sacrilege. Yeah, I like rasas food. It. That's my favorite one. So anyways, what is the one thing that you picked up as a skill set that you didn't think you could?

So I didn't pick it up yet, but I've been working very hard on technology, zoom calls and how to use all this crap and do all that. Listen, I'm old.

Renee's got, like, technology for dummy books, like, everywhere.

This is Why I hire people. I'm just supposed to put it up there for me.

Yeah.

So technology I've got. I'm lucky that I have my teenagers at home with me who are my little. You know, they can. When they hear mom screaming in the other room, they can come fix it. So I'd say that, you know, really having to deep dive into that and learn that this is. This is, you know, zoom calls and meetings, everything else, it's. It's very effective.

Yeah, it is, actually. Like, I talked to a lot more people because they can get through them. Anybody else have one that they want to throw out there? Sal? Brad. All right, all right.

When. When you can. Where will be the first place you travel to?

Oh, me, I already got my travel plans. I was supposed to go to San Tropez in. I was just telling me, Paul, the.

Guy that runs the show over here. This guy.

So my girlfriends and I like to travel quite a bit. And so we were supposed to be in Saint Tropez in August. And I'm like, I'm still going. I don't. I'm going, that's worth it.

You know, that's what, That's. You know what's so funny? Because there's such a pain tolerance for people that are all over the spectrum. Right. And I don't think anybody's wrong or right.

And two of us are like, we're going, let's book now.

Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. You don't care. Oh, go ahead.

If you had to self quarantine on a deserted island somewhere and know that you wouldn't get sick, you can only bring one thing with you, what would you bring?

Can I bring my kids? No.

Single. Are they things?

I mean, kind of. One thing that I would bring with me. Yep.

That's an odd question.

Like, my phone, probably because I can do a lot with it, or you know, something like that, what would I bring?

Phone keep you connected.

Yeah. Because you can do. It's the best.

Watch YouTube.

Yeah.

You'll just plug the charger into the coconut tree and just charge it. She's. She's. It's two things, actually. It's a peloton. So she can power.

A working telephone.

If you had to eat one food for the rest of your life, what would it be?

Oh, God. I. My kids and I play this. I. I can't pick just one, though.

You got to.

Oh, it's probably like, I don't know.

Mine's pizza, dude.

No, I get pizza.

I get pizza. I could eat pizza every day for the rest of my life.

Tacos, same pizza.

I don't care. Pizza is pizza. Cold pizza, warm pizza, hot pizza. Pizza in the morning.

I love fajitas. I could eat fajitas forever.

Really?

Yeah. Anything Mexican.

Like the sizzling fajitas that you get. Like chichis, peppers.

Yeah. And the wrap and the salsa.

That's awesome. Listen, Renee, honestly, it's always a pleasure. You. You did drop some good knowledge, so really appreciate it. Tell the audience how they can get a hold of you.

So rla, realtors.com or reneacho.com is our site. We're on Instagram as RLA Realtors, and we are available, my team and I, at any time. So find us and ask questions. We're here to help. And thank you for your patience with my technological.

We're gonna have to do this again when. When we figure out the technology. Yeah.

Thank you.

All right, Renee, thank you so much. We'll talk to you soon.

Okay. Renee's website is in the comments below, everyone.

Thank you, Natalia, Very. That's. She's the sound of God coming in.

Yes, she was talking to me when you guys weren't, so thank you.

She's my little cousin, by the way. She's. She's as crazy as I am.